HOMEBREW Digest #2982 Fri 19 March 1999

[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]

		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Small brown beer bottles?, RIMS Controller? (Joy Hansen)
  DMS; Westvletern & Oud Bruin; Mead & Lambic fermentation (Ted McIrvine)
  small bottles (Jason.Gorman)
  Dispense pressure & Xtract CAP ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  Carboy cleaning... (BlkCloud)
  Home Brew Recipe (John Varady)
  re : interesting Wheat Beer ("Alan McKay")
  barleywine bottles (Alan Edwards)
  Brewers East End Revival (B.E.E.R.) 1999 Brew-Off Homebrew Competition (Kevin Basso)
  Good brewpubs in Cleveland?, (Gillespie)
  Steam RIMS (Kyle Druey)
  Autoclaving Bottles (Tom Franklin)
  "Corney Kegs" ("Bill Tobler")
  Back door dealings / Open fermenters ("George De Piro")
  Flagging interest in homebrew? ("Sieben, Richard")
  Low Attenuation/Slow Yeast Start ("Penn, John")
  Water aeration and gott ("Eric P. Reimer")
  re : wort pH ("Alan McKay")
  Belgium beer attractions (Mark Swenson)
  its' a business, palms, plambic (Jim Liddil)
  RE:  Judging variability ("George De Piro")
  Re: Backdoor purchases. (Ross Reid)
  Alcohol Formulas (AJ)
  seeking pump experience ("Alan McKay")
  Maple, a note from a friend (Charley Burns)

Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! Madison Homebrewers and Tasters Guild's 13th annual Big and Huge - 28 March 1999: Rules and forms at www.globaldialog.com/madbrewers Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!! To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org. **SUBSCRIBE AND UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS MUST BE SENT FROM THE E-MAIL ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!** IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, the autoresponder and the SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE commands will fail! Contact brewery at hbd.org for information regarding the "Cat's Meow" Back issues are available via: HTML from... http://hbd.org Anonymous ftp from... ftp://hbd.org/pub/hbd/digests ftp://ftp.stanford.edu/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer AFS users can find it under... /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer COPYRIGHT for the Digest as a collection is currently held by hbd.org (Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen). Digests in their entirity CANNOT be reprinted/reproduced without this entire header section unless EXPRESS written permission has been obtained from hbd.org. Digests CANNOT be reprinted or reproduced in any format for redistribution unless said redistribution is at absolutely NO COST to the consumer. COPYRIGHT for individual posts within each Digest is held by the author. Articles cannot be extracted from the Digest and reprinted/reproduced without the EXPRESS written permission of the author. The author and HBD must be attributed as author and source in any such reprint/reproduction. (Note: QUOTING of items originally appearing in the Digest in a subsequent Digest is exempt from the above. Home brew clubs NOT associated with organizations having a commercial interest in beer or brewing may republish articles in their newsletters and/or websites provided that the author and HBD are attributed. ASKING first is still a great courtesy...) JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:56:00 -0500 From: joytbrew at halifax.com (Joy Hansen) Subject: Small brown beer bottles?, RIMS Controller? Stephen Klump and Thomas Murray posted commentary regarding bottles for strong ales. At one time, I envisioned a whole storage area for the blue Sam Adams aged barley wine bottles, neatly refilled with my brews. Unfortunately, my wallet emptied before I accumulated many and my spouse appropriated those that I did collect for her own purposes! Anyway, when I frequented "Bars" in the 50's, there was a bottle size called a "pony" or about 6 ounces. Just a scaled down version of the common brown beer bottle. Does anyone know if these are still available as "no-return"? If not, possibly the manufacturer has a store house full just waiting for the home brew market? OTOH, As far as I read, only traditional 12 ounce beer bottles are allowed in competitive events. Say you produce an outstanding brew. How can you receive recognition from brewing peers? Could you give up 3 + bottles of a great strong ale? RIMS controller? I've constructed several of the controllers described by R. Morris in the 1992 Zymurgy. Apparently, the parts tolerances or other unknowns have a tremendous affect on the 100K pot setting. Problem: The typical ambient temperature for my brew day is about 50 degrees F. I heat the strike water with RIMS to 105 degrees. The 100K pot must be turned clockwise to almost the end of the rotation to produce the on/off cycle. The approach current to the set temperature doesn't seem to operate properly at this pot setting. It's either full on or off. Later in the mash schedule, the pot must be rotated completely counter clockwise for the on/off cycle. In this pot position, the approach current performs satisfactorily. The variable power to the heating element is verified with a clamp on ampere meter. This isn't a completely intolerable situation. It just requires spinning the to turn pot to the opposite end of the dial. My 12 hour brew days have a lot of wheel spinning. Question: What part (parts) could cause such a difference in the setting of the 100K pot with relation to the on/off cycle? Is the 5.6K resistor in series with the 100K pot and 100K thermister the likely culprit. 5.6K seems miniscule as compared to 200K? Or can it be the output of the TLC 555 low power timer? I would like to continue using the R. Morris controller due to it's low cost when wire wrapped and salvage parts are available. Rebuilding a failed board is fairly simple and inexpensive since the high cost items are reusable. I was informed by Digi Key that the CA 3059 zero volt crossing switch is out of production. Does anyone know of a direct replacement or a replacement that would take minor modification of the R. Morris controller circuit? A recommendation that I replace the 8.2K two watt resistor with a 10K resulted in a smoked controller (the wire wound resistor in place of the film type resistor burned out immediately and destroyed the CA 3059 when the power was applied). Is a wire wound resistor an acceptable replacement for a film type resistor? On motorized mills? What's the inherent problem with using a high torque/low speed electric drill to power the mill? I've milled a hundred brewings with my electric drill without a problem. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 10:19:57 -0800 From: Ted McIrvine <McIrvine at ix.netcom.com> Subject: DMS; Westvletern & Oud Bruin; Mead & Lambic fermentation > From: Steven Gibbs <gibbs at lightspeed.net> > Dear Collective: > I recently brewed a Munich Lager with about 60% Munich malt, 35% > Weyerman German Pils, and the balance in Carapils, Choc., Belg. bisq., > and a touch of crystal. here's my problem: I tasted the beer and it > absolutely reeks of DMS/cooked corn/cabbage. > > I have never had this sort of problem with one of my lagers, and > especially a dark lager. When I do a dark lager, a long boil and a long cold secondary fermentation usually drives off the DMS. Lighter lagers pose a bigger problem. Darryl Richman in "Bock" writes that this "adds lager flavor and enhances the malt character." Sometimes a secondary or tertiary fermentation in a keg allows one to purge some of the DMS aroma with carbon-dioxide. From: John Varady <rust1d at usa.net> > Subject: Westvleteren Yeast / Bulk Buy > > I received a vial of Westvleteren yeast as a prize from the Saccharomyces > Supply Company in MA. I have never had a beer from this abbey and therefore > have no idea of the profile of the strain. Is this yeast appropriate > for a tripel (or a wit)? Westvleteren is a terrific beer, one of my favorites. It reminds me of Gouden Carolous, only even better. It has plum/nut type of esters and is well-attenuated. I think it would make a great Trippel. I'm not sure it will provide the type of esters and acidity that one may want in a wit. Somewhere else in today's digest, someone asked about Oud Bruin. This is Flanders Brown ale, OG 48-56 with some pleasant acidity. The best-known commercial example is Liefmann's Goudenband. The acidity is similar to a wit, and a little less wild than the most untamed lambics. > From: jim williams <jim&amy at macol.net> > Subject: never done a mead or a pLambic for that matter... > > hi, > so i've never done a mead before. Thinking of doing one. i don't know > much about it, and I want to do it right. I'm more than willing to take > the time it takes etc.... > > i'm looking for idiot proof directions on making a high quality mead. > > i'd love recipe's/input on mead and plambic. I'm not interested in > adding fruit to either, and would like a still mead. > > I may be moving in 6 mos. or so. If I have a mead and or pLambic in a > fermentor at this time, is it the going to hurt to move it? I make a lot of mead and used to make a lot of lambics. The first thing you should know is that the honey should be heated to pasteurization temperatures (140-160 for ten minutes) and NOT boiled. The second thing is that honey is lousy as a yeast nutrient and the PH can be too high if you don't do something to compensate. I add one or more of the following to acidify and to help the yeast: unfermented beer wort, acid blend (lactic, tartaric etc.), fruit, and yeast hulls. (The easest way to get yeast hulls is to boil the yeast cake from the bottom of a previous fermentation.) A plain mead or plain lambic may not take as long to ferment as one with fruit. Mead oxidizes very easily, so I would avoid moving mead in a fermenter, especially if you are changing residences. And the lambic film also prevents oxidization. So a six month fermentation followed by bottling will probably be fine. Ted - -- McIrvine at Ix.Netcom.Com College of Staten Island/CUNY http://www.csi.cuny.edu/academia/programs/mus.html http://www.csi.cuny.edu/arts/calendar.html Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 10:34:00 -0500 From: Jason.Gorman at steelcase.com Subject: small bottles FYI.... I have successfully capped 7 oz. Butt (I mean Bud) and Butt Lite bottles. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 10:58:16 -0500 From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com> Subject: Dispense pressure & Xtract CAP Kyle Druey mentions, "Something interesting he mentioned, Miller and Bud are dispensed at 12 psi and need 5' of 3/16" tubing, but Coors is dispensed at 14 psi and needs 6' of 3/16" tubing." Something else you may not have realized by this information is these pressures are for 2.5 to 2.6 volumes at 40 degrees F, not ice cold like they advertize!! One other dispense oddity; air-blenders are used in "long-draw" systems. Air-blenders mix compressed air with CO2 so the high pressures in a long-draw system does not over carbonate the beer. If hop aroma and then hop bitterness are the first things to fade due to oxidation, then it only makes sense to brew a beer with no hop character so it will not show the oxidation effects when delivered thruogh a blended air system. Randy Erickson says,"Someone, Del Lansing as I recall, advocates using two 4# cans of Premiere Reserve Cream Ale..." The Cream Ale kit is what used to be called "Blue Ribbon", malt made by Premier for Pabst. To minimize carmelization in that recipe you should add one can at the beginning of the boil, do your hop additions, then 5 minutes before the end of the boil add the other can. Of course a full 5 gallon boil will also help the wort darkening problem. They didn't allow much space in that sidebar and luckily the gibberish they were going to print was caught and they gave me all of 5 hours before deadline to come up with revised copy. If you can do a partial mash you can mash 2 pounds of flaked maize with 3 pounds of_6 Row_malt. Mash these at about 156 to 158 degrees. When complete by the iodine test (about 15-20 minutes) add this liquor to 4 lb. dry or 5 lb liquid pale extract + water to 5.5 gallons Hop this with about 5.8 to 6 HBU for 60 minutes, the same addition for 30 minutes and about an 1 1/2 ounce at knockout. The 2035 is a good yeast, just a little drier finish than I prefer. Have fun! N.P. (Del) Lansing Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:02:41 EST From: BlkCloud at aol.com Subject: Carboy cleaning... I have always used good old trisodium phosphate (aka TSP) to clean everyting including bottel lable removals. The standard concentration is 2 TBL per 5 gal. of water. This strength is adequate to clean and not remove skin off your hands. Since the purpose of this stuff is to remove wallpaper (in much higher concentrations), one has to be careful of getting this stuff in your eyes etc. The general rule for me is to always rinse three times. This has worked well and I have never met brewing crud that this couldn't deal with. While I don't know any real negatives to your habit of leaving your carboys in idophor solution for months, I know that it has a tendency to stain things. I have also wondered about the "life" of the idophor solution. Recently I have left it in a bucket for a week or more and observed a color change from it's normal pale yellow to a more pale yellow-white. What I have been taught that this stuff is effective after only two minutes. I hate to throw the stuff out after each batch but my sanitation regime requires it. Hope this helps. BTW by your email address you work for Bechtel. I am a former Bechtelite and worked in the G-berg office for 8 years. Tim Morgan Black Cloud Brewery Petaluma CA Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:07:26 -0500 (EST) From: John Varady <rust1d at usa.net> Subject: Home Brew Recipe I was making some additions to my homepage and was adding a section about hot peppers, a burning passion of mine. Here is a recipe for hot pepper sauce that I make. It's about as hot as tabasco, which to my tastebuds is just right. Boneyard Barley Wine Hot Sauce 6 oz Home Brewed Barley Wine 6 oz White Vinegar 30-40 Home Grown Cayenne Peppers 1 tsp Sea Salt Roast the Cayenne Peppers in a 200F oven for 5-6 hours until dried. Combine Barley Wine and Vinegar in a sauce pan and heat to simmering. Allow to simmer for about 5 mins or until it no longer smells of alcohol. Put the dried peppers in a food processor or blender and add 1/2 of the beer/vinegar mixture. Process until a paste is formed, adding more of the beer/vinegar mixture as required to reach the consistancy of tomato sauce. Pour mixture through a wire mesh strainer to remove the larger pieces of skin and seeds and then pour into a bottle. Use caution when making hot sauces. Always wash your hands before rubbing your eyes, playing with yourself, or getting frisky with the old lady (she'll appreciate it!). This fall I plan on making it with some home made vinegar as well. I have 5 gallons of porter that have been sitting in my cellar for about 15 months now that I plan on putting a vinegar culture in soon. This should yeild 5 gallons of tasty malt vinegar. Later and Enjoy John - -- John Varady The HomeBrew Recipe Calculating Program Boneyard Brewing Custom Neon Beer Signs For Home Brewers Glenside, PA Get More Information At: rust1d at usa.net http://www.netaxs.com/~vectorsys/varady Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:09:02 -0500 From: "Alan McKay" <amckay at nortelnetworks.com> Subject: re : interesting Wheat Beer George De Piro writes : Another reason to promote hot break formation is that these large proteins can inhibit fermentation by physically blocking the yeast membrane from absorbing nutrients. This idea is discussed in both Kunze's book _Technology Brewing and Malting_ (p. 292) and Warner's book _Koelsch_ (p. 71). To which I respond : That's not suprizing, considering that Warner probably learned it from Kunze in the first place, since that would have been the textbook he used at Weihenstephan. And what an awesome book it is! cheers, -Alan - -- Alan McKay OS Support amckay at nortelnetworks.com Small Site Integration 613-765-6843 (ESN 395) Nortel Networks http://zftzb00d/alanmckay/ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 10:37:54 -0800 (PST) From: Alan Edwards <ale at cisco.com> Subject: barleywine bottles After Peter Bertone mentioned them in the HBD, I send mail to Presque Isle Wine Cellars inquiring about their 187mL champagne bottles: > > A fellow homebrewer mentioned that you carry 187mL champagne bottles for > $7.30 per case (24). Can they be crown-capped? If so, can you send me > a catalog? I received this reply today: | | The 187mL bottles mentioned in the HBD posting are no longer available. | We do have a 200mL bottle in clear which will take a standard crown cap. | Price per case of 24 is $8.44, not including shipping. | | Thanks for the request. | | Bob Peter wrote: > PIWC's phone number is 814-725-1314 (info) 800-488-7492 (orders), email > prwc at erie.net. So, if you keep them in the dark, they should work fine. -Alan in Fremont, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 14:52:04 -0500 From: Kevin Basso <KevinB at AWSPERRY.COM> Subject: Brewers East End Revival (B.E.E.R.) 1999 Brew-Off Homebrew Competition Brewers East End Revival (B.E.E.R.) 1999 Brew-Off Homebrew Competition Saturday, April 24, 1999 A special BREWMASTER'S CUP award will be presented for the beer chosen to be brewed at John Harvard's Brewhouse in Lake Grove. This is your chance to have your homebrew recipe brewed and served by one of New York's premier brewers. See New Web Page Link for Details... http://www.homebrewshop.com/beer-club/beer-contest.html Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 20:20:42 -0500 From: Gillespie <dlgilles at net-link.net> Subject: Good brewpubs in Cleveland?, I'm going to be spending a night in Cleveland in a few weeks and there are a lot of brewpubs there. Anyone recommend one or two in particular? Easy to find would be a bonus. Thanks a lot....Don Gillespie, in Kalamazoo, please reply to dlgilles at net-link.net Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 20:12:51 -0800 From: Kyle Druey <druey at ibm.net> Subject: Steam RIMS I have some additional information to report on steam RIMS. Like William Macher, I too setup a prototype and have mashed twice with it. I attached a 1/4" soft copper line to a 6 qt. pressure cooker and inserted the line into the mash bed and let it steam away. The first brew I achieved a temp. rise rate of 1.5F/min using a 1000W hot plate, this was with a 16 qt. mash. The second trial I put the pressure cooker on a large stove element (maybe 2200W?) and got a temp rise rate of 3.5 F/min with a 20 qt mash. For both I also used my 1000W rims heating element which provides a temp rise rate of 1 to 2 F/min depending on the mash volume. For the second brew, I raised the mash from 102F to 150F in 11 minutes! I was too nervous to hard pipe the steam line into my rims heating chamber, but it looks like William Macher had no problems with this, so I think I will give it a try. For the next trial, I am going to replace the 1/4" soft copper tubing with 1/4" flexible ss hose that is commonly used to deliver NG to household appliances. This will make the steam line somewhat flexible, and I think I will use some foam pipe insulation on it, that steam line gets hot! Fouch has joined the RIMS club, Fred Garvin rules. Kyle brewing in the arm pit of CA, Bakersfield Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 04:56:22 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Franklin <tommfranklin at yahoo.com> Subject: Autoclaving Bottles Hi All, A question for those who have used an Autoclave for bottles: I have a chance to use an Autoclave to sanitize bottles. Some of my bottles have had all the labels removed, some have not. Will there be any problems if I put bottles into an Autoclave that still have labels on them? thanks, tom === Tom Franklin Raleigh, NC Listen to "Kite Site Nights" at Imagine Radio http://www.imagineradio.com/mymusiclisten.asp?name=tomfranklin _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free at yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 07:07:16 +0000 From: "Bill Tobler" <WCTobler at brazoria.net> Subject: "Corney Kegs" I Kegged my first batch a few weeks ago, and I'm afraid that I may not get to see my beer age anymore. Maybe I should bottle at least a six pack out of every batch. Anyway, to my question, my last batch, I used an old Corney as a secondary. I shortened the dip tube by an inch, purged with CO2, and siphoned into the dip tube, with an open quick connect on the gas side. (attached a small hose from the gas side into a cup of boiled water to keep out the nasties) I let it sit a week, then siphoned into a dispensing keg, cooled and carbonated. Worked great. I heard somewhere that a corney doesn't make a good primary because of it's shape or something, but how about a secondary? The big advantage is the "bumpless transfer", no O2 in the beer. Does anyone go through the trouble to go from 6' dispensing hose to 5', if foaming becomes a problem? Do you think a foot makes enough of a difference? Thanks. "To Better Brewing" Bill Tobler Lake Jackson, Texas. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 8:56 -0800 From: "George De Piro" <George_De_Piro at berlex.com> Subject: Back door dealings / Open fermenters Hi all, I agree that whining about one's business problems is probably the worst way to address them. It can only lead to a vacant store front. If a business is losing customers because of competitive pricing, the business owner must find a way to reduce price while maintaining profit. One way to do this is to reduce business costs. (this is economics 101) A homebrew shop owner is paying very high shipping costs for their goods. They are also purchasing supplies in relatively small quantities, further increasing the cost of the goods. It would behoove the homebrew shop owner to enter into a "back door" deal with a local brewery and purchase supplies from them, thus increasing profit by reducing costs. As an example, the price for shipping malt from North Country Malt Supply (extreme upstate NY) to a point within NY State starts at about $75. If you are a homebrew shop purchasing 5 sacks of malt, the shipping costs $15 per bag! The malt costs $25, so the price per sack becomes a whopping $40! You can see how the shipping is eating into the profits more than a tad. That same $75 can pay for the shipping for as much as 37 sacks of grain. That's $2.03 per bag, a fairly substantial savings. A deal between a homebrew shop and a local brewery would benefit all parties involved: 1. The local brewery only has to deal with one homebrew customer, thus simplifying ordering and product pickup. 2. The brewshop owner gets a better deal on the supplies, thus increasing profit while not gouging customers. 3. Homebrewers get a better deal on supplies. Granted, it may not be quite as great a deal as they would get directly from a brewery, but there will be times when the local brewery is just too busy to run a marginally profitable homebrew supply business on the side, and the homebrewers will be left out in the cold. These deals are not only restricted to grains; hops are cheaper when bought in bulk, as are things like cleaning supplies (PBW, etc.). Executing an idea like this is much more likely to keep a homebrew shop profitable than whining about how customers owe it to you to pay higher prices at your store because you got them started in the hobby. Reality needs to be kept in mind at all times. ---------------------------------- Over the past couple of weeks some people have talked about the joys of using open fermenters, describing them as a plastic bucket covered with plastic wrap which is secured to the bucket with rubber bands. Forgive my confusion, but how does this qualify as an open fermenter? It is sealed about as well as a bucket with a lid and an airlock, or a carboy with an airlock. A truly open fermenter is OPEN to the atmosphere! There is likely to be some mixing of air and CO2 at the surface of the fermenting beer, which may affect fermentation in ways that are desirable for certain yeasts. Covering a bucket with plastic wrap will create an atmosphere within the fermenter that is similar to that within a carboy. A nit, perhaps, but it's one that was bugging me. Have fun! George de Piro (Nyack, NY) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 08:16:31 -0600 From: "Sieben, Richard" <SIER1 at Aerial1.com> Subject: Flagging interest in homebrew? I have been in this hobby for about 5 years now and I had not noticed a flagging interest in this hobby. But, I have noticed that the number of half assed homebrew shops have declined, leaving the better ones behind. I would assume this is a matter of survival of the fittest (those shops that actually give good service and advice at a reasonable price). I have not personally noticed a drop in the number of people brewing, but that may be due to my personal evangelizing of brewing. (I have personally taught, about 8 other people how to brew over the years and we do group brew sessions a few times a year.) If there has been a decline, my guess would be that 1)there is a lot of good beer available on the market now, thus reducing the need to make it yourself, and 2) with the full employment situation of our economy for the last several years, only the most dedicated want to spend what little spare time they have to brew. We do live in a fast food, instant gratification society now and beer production takes time. A lot of us are required to be 'working couples' and that means dividing regular household chores, thus leaving less time for all day brew adventures. Maybe that holds the clue to how we keep / gain more homebrewers, someone needs to make an affordable way to brew quality beer with less time required. Time can be saved at many points, but the experienced homebrewer will want to shy away from extract brewing (I think) to get better quality/taste. This has always meant MORE TIME. Hmmmm well, a nice RIMS system that can be run by an old pc might make mashing a mindless task like a breadmaker, but it will have to be priced like a breadmaker to sell a lot of them. (I know, I'm not in it for a mindless task either as I really enjoy mashing as are most who probably reads HBD, but we are trying to reach out to those who would brew if it was easier.) This would be a proposition for the HB stores like wireless phone companies have made to their customers, sell the equipment cheap and keep the customer coming back for air time (HB supplies in this case). \ Well, it was just a first thought, take it and run with it. Brew forth and swill no more. Rich Sieben Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:19:11 -0500 From: "Penn, John" <John.Penn at jhuapl.edu> Subject: Low Attenuation/Slow Yeast Start My recent IPA had an unexpectedly high final gravity and I had asked about Morgan's Ale yeast. Well I found part of the answer last night when I was looking at Al Korzonas' Homebrewing I book. I forgot about Al's extensive appendix that includes the dry yeast as well as the liquid yeasts. From AlK's book, Morgan's ale yeast is a 70-75% attenuator which is lower than the 75-80% that I get from Nottingham. Now I have another question regarding my low attenuation. The background... After pitching Nottingham yeast and aerating then having no activity for about 24 hrs, I pitched some Morgan's dry ale yeast into the wort. I did not rehydrate either yeast packet (I know I should, but it seems to work OK even if I don't) and I did not aerate a second time when I pitched my Morgan's ale yeast 24 hrs later. Also, the Morgan's ale yeast was not especially fresh. My expected FG with Nottingham was about 1.010-13 and given Morgan's maybe I should have gotten 1.012-15. I measured a final gravity (FG) of 1.019 which was poor given a 5.5 gallon batch based on 8# of M&F light LME, 1# ~60L crystal, and 0.75# of brown sugar for an estimated OG of 1.059. I'm wondering about 2 possible causes/questions. Question? How long does the air stay in the wort after aerating? I probably should have aerated 24 hrs later since there did not appear to be any active fermentation/alcohol. Could the low attenuation also be due to poor health on the yeast? I may have overcooled the wort before pitching the Nottingham yeast the first time. I like to leave it a little warm when I'm using dry yeast then let it cool overnight letting the yeast reproduce in a warmer environment then cooling to fermentation temps overnight. When I repitched the Morgans it may have been a little old and without aerating I don't know if the dissolved air from the previous aeration was still viable 24 hrs later. Thanks for any inputs. I plan on tasting the IPA tonight and if I'm lucky I won't develop an overcarbonation problem with time because of the high FG. John Penn Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:39:23 -0500 From: "Eric P. Reimer" <eric at etymonic.com> Subject: Water aeration and gott Hi all, Thanks to all who have sent replies to my question regarding transferring water to a gott without aerating it. I will post a summary when I get a chance. I am currently too busy with a new future head brewer at Barking Dogs. Baby Rebecca was born Tuesday morning. (Insert may tired happy faces.) Eric Reimer Barking Dogs Brewery London, Ontario Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:44:27 -0500 From: "Alan McKay" <amckay at nortelnetworks.com> Subject: re : wort pH I once brought my sparge water pH down too low and had this problem. The beer never cleared no matter how long I kept it in the fridge. And it tasted really acidy. I don't know what the wort pH was, but the sparge water pH was a bit below 5.0. Waaaaayyyy too low. cheers, -Alan - -- Alan McKay OS Support amckay at nortelnetworks.com Small Site Integration 613-765-6843 (ESN 395) Nortel Networks http://zftzb00d/alanmckay/ Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:56:46 -0500 From: Mark Swenson <swenson at aoml.noaa.gov> Subject: Belgium beer attractions I have the good fortune to be travelling to Liege, Belgium for a week. I will be working most of the time, but I expect to take a day or so on either side to look around the country. I wonder if anyone has some suggestions about where to go for special beer experiences? Things in or near Liege would be best, but I do plan a day excursion. My plane arrives/departs from Brussels, so something near there would be good too. Private response are probably best for this. Thanks. Mark Swenson Key Biscayne, FL Miami Area Society of Homebrewers Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 08:04:28 +0000 From: Jim Liddil <jliddil at VMS.ARIZONA.EDU> Subject: its' a business, palms, plambic > Sorry for the long post. > > See ya! > > Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at oeonline.com I think you exceeded the 8K limit. :-) As you so eloquently wrote, it is a business. If going to online sales or other methods are required then one must do it. If you go inot business then you have to compete. I certainly prefer to use a local shop, but I have found old ingredients and peeple running the shops who are less than knowledgeable about what items the distributors carry. And when I find insects in my grain that drives the nail. > From: TPuskar at aol.com > Subject: Homebrew supply store list > My question to the collective is this: Does anyone have a database of > homebrew shops suitable for a PDA like a Palm Pilot or even in some > software suitable for a notebook computer? I usually lug a copy of As a palm user and someone who is relocating to a new state I can relate. What I did is go to the SUPPLY section of brewery.org and cut and pasted the list of shops for CT into a memo. I am sure it would be easy enough to convert the html to a doc file (not word, but the file format for longer text documents used on the palm)or maybe a jfile or handbase file. I also checked the AOB site and the rest of the net for any thing not at brewery.org. - ------------------------------ > From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu> > Subject: never done a mead or pLambic for that matter > > Jim Williams asks about foolproof ways to make mead and pLambic with a > caveat that he'll be moving in 6 months. He then states: > >> I know that the pellicle in a Plambic should not be disturbed. It will > definately be disturbed if I >> have to move it to another city! > > I guess it's reasonable not to want to disturb the pellicle on your > pLambic. However, sometimes you don't have a choice. And sometimes we make choices that involve this. I have to face the prospect of movers handling close to 40 one gallon bottles of plambic, a 5 gallon carboy and a 10 gallon oak cask. And I am sure after a 2000 plus mile road trip they will be well mixed. So it goes. Jim Liddil Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 9:59 -0800 From: "George De Piro" <George_De_Piro at berlex.com> Subject: RE: Judging variability Hi all, Paul Dey (any relation to Laurie Partridge?) writes about the variability of beer judging, citing the discrepancies between his beer's score at the recent Best of Brooklyn ( score of 24) and Boston Homebrew Competition (score of 38). Paul makes some good points that I would like to reinforce. There are many reasons for high variability in beer evaluation. Some of them are: 1. The vast majority of BJCP judges are not professionally trained in beer evaluation skills; they are *hobbyists.* You have to keep that in mind when entering competitions and assessing the value of their feedback. Some judges are great, others are less than great, and even a professionally-trained beer evaluator will exhibit variability from day to day. We are human beings, not gas chromatographs. 2. The vast majority of BJCP judges are overworked at competitions. Ideally, you should sample no more than 8 beers in a day. The porter judges at the Best of Brooklyn had about 13 beers just in the morning session (and the flight was split because there were so many entries in the category). 3. Different people have different levels of acuity with regard to the various compounds that comprise a beer's character. 4. How was the beer handled in transport and at the contest? I know of one contest that skunked the beers by storing them in a snow bank (no kidding). 5. How big where the flights, and what was the level of competition? This year's Best of Brooklyn received around 40 strong ale entries. Your beer had to be damn memorable to win something in that flight! An even more extreme example of the variability of amateur beer evaluation can be seen by comparing the Best of Brooklyn to the Boston contest: The Best of Show winner at the Best of Brooklyn entered about 10 beers, and won no fewer than 6 ribbons (including a sweep of the pale ale category and 1st and 2nd for IPA, and BOS for a brown ale). He entered all of the same beers at the Boston contest, which was the same day, and only won 3rd place for his Altbier. He would say to that it is more worthwhile to enter the Best of Brooklyn... Have fun! George de Piro (Nyack, NY) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 15:28:17 GMT From: mrreid at golden.net (Ross Reid) Subject: Re: Backdoor purchases. The area of Ontario in which I live, although it's called "The Golden Triangle", is an absolute wasteland for all-grain home brewing supplies. The few shops there are within a 50 Km radius, concentrate mainly on wine making and carry only beer kits of dubious freshness. I'd like to support a local supplier but, at the only shop even interested in special ordering base malt for me, a 25 kilo sack of 2 row was quoted at CDN $65.00. However, a 25 kilo sack of 2 row, at a local, homebrewer-friendly, micro costs me CDN $23.00. Where do you suppose my base malt is purchased? Supporting a local shop has its limits. Cheers, Ross Reid, Branchton, ON, Canada. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 10:31:30 -0500 From: AJ <ajdel at mindspring.com> Subject: Alcohol Formulas Peter Ensminger asks me to comment on the apparent discrepancies between formulas for alcohol content based on gravity measurement. He had several specific points. I'll take them one by one. 1. The first point was Peter simply pointing out that the formula I called the "Ensminger fomula" really came from one of Dave Miller's books. No further comment necessary here. I'll just call it the Miller formula from here on. 2.> The Balling method AJ gives in HBD 2969 [ >http://www.hbd.org/hbd/archive/2969.html#2969-5 ] appears to differ from >the Balling method given by George Fix several years ago in HBD 880 [ >http://www.hbd.org/hbd/archive/880.html#880-9 ]: >ABW = [P(initial) - RE]/[2.0665 - 0.010665*P(initial)] Indeed it is. One of the things that I most wanted to emphasize in #2972, http://www.hbd.org/hbd/archive/2972.html#2972-12, is that there are multiple ways to model a given data set. DeClerk tabulated Balling's data in a couple of ways one of which gives a factor which one multiplies by the apparent extract difference to obtain the alcohol estimate. I fitted a polynomial to the tabulated data thus making it possible to obtain a value for any extract difference without interpolating in the table. My model was ABW = [P(initial) - P(final)]*[a + b*P(initial) + c*P(initial)^2] Thus I had to determine values for three parameters, a, b and c, which cause ABW to best fit the Balling data. Note that I converted ABW to ABV simply by multiplying by 1.25. This introduces a known modeling error amounting to .1% (of the answer) per point of FG. The 1.012 FG example I gave came out to 4.85% ABW. If I had included the FG factor it would have been 4.91%. Thus I modeled ABW = 1.25*[P(initial) - P(final)]*[a + b*P(initial) + c*P(initial)^2] A slightly better model is ABW = 1.25*SG(Final)*[P(initial) - P(final)]*[a + b*P(initial) + c*P(initial)^2] The Fix formula cited by Peter is based on initial extract and real extract. George used a different model ABW = [P(initial) - RE]/[a - b*P(initial)] and estimated the values of a and b which made this model best fit the Balling data (I'm actually only assuming that this is what he did but it's a good guess even if not correct). The "Miller" formula uses yet a third model ABV = (OG - FG)/a Again, the analyst estimates the value for a which causes the best fit to measured data. In the case of the formula as given by Miller the value of 0.75 is not the best value. The Balling data is best fit by a = 0.7748 for my model of #2969 and by a = 0.7624 for my "improved" model. Other models besides the three given are possible. Generally speaking the methods used to fit the models to the data are the same (minimize the mean square error between the measured and modeled data) but the performance of the models is different. Some models are better than others and there are ways of detecting this. For example, the Miller model with a = 0.75 has a bias. But it has the advantage of being easy to remember and is the simplest. The "Improved AJ" model may be more accurate but requires three parameters as opposed to two for the Fix model and 1 for the Miller. Please keep in mind that when I say "more accurate" it only means with respect to some tabulated numbers in DeClerk's book. The ultimate accuracy depends upon the validity of these numbers. It is so important that this be understood that I violated netiquette in #2972 by using all caps to make this point. I should also mention that fitting, whatever the model, is a bit of an art. We can play games to do things like sacrifice model accuracy in regions we are unlikely to operate in (very high and very low alcohol content) for the sake of improved accuracy in the regions we do expect to operate in. 3. Peter's comparison of the three methods show that they agree within about 0.22% for a particular set of more or less typical values. I think that's pretty good agreement. But what everyone wants to know is which method is the "best". As I said in #2972 that's a tough question. In situations like this societies like the ASBC run collaborative studies in which, for example, samples of the same batch of beer are sent to as many laboratories as possible each of which analyzes the beer using a proposed method. Each laboratory reports back to the society and the variation in the results are tabulated. The "coefficient of variation" which is the standard deviation in the results normalized by the mean is computed. (All the determined values are averaged, excluding obvious outliers and the deviation of each measurement from the average computed. These deviations are squared and summed, the sum divided by the number of measurements and the square root taken. This is divided by the mean and the quotient multiplied by 100 to give a percentage value). If the comittee finds the coefficient of variation acceptable, it proposes the method. In the ASBC MOA's the collaborative coefficient of variation is given for each method. What this means is that even though the method may have a built in bias, each lab that uses that method is subject to the same bias. For example in Beer-4a, the distillation method, all the alcohol is not recovered and there is thus a bias. The method underestimates the alcohol content. But every laboratory underestimates it by the same amount (which is doubtless much less than the variation) so that 5.00% ABV means the same thing throughout the industry. That is what we are really after. To summarize: 1. Alcohol formulas based on gravity measurements involve modeling of theoretical and laboratory data. 2. There are lots of ways to model a data set and lots of ways to tweak the model. 3. There are techniques for looking at modeling error which allow the analyst to assess the quality of the model. 4. There are various measures of goodness for a model which may be traded according to the analysts desire. Accuracy vs. simplicity is the obvious one. 5. If a model/method yields a good coefficient of variation in a collaborative study and it can reasonably be concluded that the method is suitable for adoption. 6. Of the three models Peter posted, the agreement was quite good. The modeling differences are comparable to the differences expected from hydrometer reading error. The "AJ" model can be "improved" (at the expense of simplicity) which brings it into closer agreement with the other two. 7. All the above is based upon the assumption that the Balling model is correct. We know that its validity varies depending on whether lager or ale yeast was used and on the extent to which the yeast was aerated at or before pitching. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:30:55 -0600 From: "Alan McKay" <amckay at nortelnetworks.com> Subject: seeking pump experience Greetings, I finally broke down and bought a pump - the high temperature (250F) 6144MM from Moving Brews. The fellow from Moving Brews says that on the inlet size I shouldn't run a smaller pipe up to the pump, than what's on the inlet of the pump itself. This is repeated in the reading material included with the pump. This presents a very serious problem for my brewery, as I'm all 3/8" copper, which is only about 1/4" ID - quite significantly less than the 1/2" on the pump inlet. I had been hoping to hook my pump up like this : - Kettle -> CF Chiller -> Pump -> Carboys But with this requirement mentioned above, I'd have to build a whole new chiller. The fellow at Moving Brews recommended I go : - Kettle -> Pump -> Chiller -> Carboys and then replumb between the Kettle and Pump with a thicker copper. This would certainly be a lot easier than building a new chiller. But I thought I'd ask what you folks are doing. Are you all just ignoring the recommendation and running smaller pipe up to the inlet anyway? If so, how long have you been doing this? Which pump are you using? Have there been any problems resulting? thanks, -Alan - -- Alan McKay OS Support amckay at nortelnetworks.com Small Site Integration 613-765-6843 (ESN 395) Nortel Networks Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 07:36:06 -0800 (PST) From: cburns at jps.net (Charley Burns) Subject: Maple, a note from a friend Honest, this really is a note from a friend, it wasn't me... <snip> Remember how I like maple (and I remember you don't...)? I had also added maple at bottling to about six. I added about twice as much as I needed. By mixing one bottle of this with a bottle of amber, it was pretty tasty to me. All that sugar though... One morning I walked intothe pantry and it was covered with glass and beer. One bottle had blown and taken two others out. The glass was everywhere and I mean everywhere. We have tons of stuff in there, all kinds of kids art project junk, cooking items, you name it. Took me about two hours to clean up. And of course I thought, well, must have just been that bottle. Next f___ing morning, same thing! Ouch! So I dumped the two or so remaining maples and put all of the rest in tubs (I store my beer in a bookcase in there you may recall).What a mess. I won't do that again. I really cannot believe how small of fragements a bottle can go into. About two weeks ago I took a few bottles to a friend's house, and he said "hey you cut your finger!" I looked and sure enough it was bleeding. The cause? Little bit of glass, glued by beer, to a bottle. <snip> Return to table of contents
[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]
HTML-ized on 03/19/99, by HBD2HTML version 1.2 by K.F.L.
webmaster at hbd.org, KFL, 10/9/96