HOMEBREW Digest #3006 Fri 16 April 1999

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Hallertau Hops ("Jeffrey A. F. Hittinger")
  Hops/CT, Steam RIMS (Dave Burley)
  Mash/Lauter/Fermentor in one (randy.pressley)
  RE: sanitizers (Robert Arguello)
  RE: Maximum Rims Return Temperature Target? (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Re: Known Alcohol Levels ("Phil Uecker")
  Septic replies (Paul Haaf)
  primary fermenter, kegging (Bryan Gros)
  coriander/chill haze & protein rests/Wyeast #1214 & banana/thin mash (BrewInfo)
  Re: TSP ("Erik Moe")
  More TSP (pbabcock)
  co2 tank dilemma ("Rob")
  Running multiple kegs ("Anthony & Julie Brown")
  RE: Sweet! (Tim Holland)
  Fruit extracts ("Anthony & Julie Brown")
  O-rings and valves ("Anthony & Julie Brown")
  Isopropyl alcohol in airlocks (Paul Haaf)
  Dr pivo versus Dave Burley ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  Wyeast 1214 and bubblegum ("David C. Harsh")
  split boil ("Spies, Jay")
  RE: CO2 tanks, kegs, & shelf life of kegged vs. bottled homebrew (LaBorde, Ronald)
  RE: RIMS heating control (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Brewsters, Open fermentations (Dave Burley)
  RE: RIMS heating control (Robert Arguello)
  Priming cider (Gail Elber)
  Tim Webb's Book (BrewInfo)
  pH (BrewInfo)
  Proctor's beer (BrewInfo)

Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! Enter the Spirit of Free Beer! Competition 5/22/99. Details at http://burp.org/SoFB99. 2000 MCAB Qualifier! Enter the Buzz-Off! Competition 6/26/99. Details on the HBD Competition Calendar for June 1999 (http://hbd.org). 2000 MCAB qualifier! Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!! To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org. **SUBSCRIBE AND UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS MUST BE SENT FROM THE E-MAIL ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!** IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, the autoresponder and the SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE commands will fail! Contact brewery at hbd.org for information regarding the "Cat's Meow" Back issues are available via: HTML from... http://hbd.org Anonymous ftp from... ftp://hbd.org/pub/hbd/digests ftp://ftp.stanford.edu/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer AFS users can find it under... /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer COPYRIGHT for the Digest as a collection is currently held by hbd.org (Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen). Digests in their entirity CANNOT be reprinted/reproduced without this entire header section unless EXPRESS written permission has been obtained from hbd.org. Digests CANNOT be reprinted or reproduced in any format for redistribution unless said redistribution is at absolutely NO COST to the consumer. COPYRIGHT for individual posts within each Digest is held by the author. Articles cannot be extracted from the Digest and reprinted/reproduced without the EXPRESS written permission of the author. The author and HBD must be attributed as author and source in any such reprint/reproduction. (Note: QUOTING of items originally appearing in the Digest in a subsequent Digest is exempt from the above. Home brew clubs NOT associated with organizations having a commercial interest in beer or brewing may republish articles in their newsletters and/or websites provided that the author and HBD are attributed. ASKING first is still a great courtesy...) JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:53:43 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jeffrey A. F. Hittinger" <jhitt at engin.umich.edu> Subject: Hallertau Hops Can anyone enlighten me about the following? The Hallertau region in Bavaria grows a variety of hop strains. Specifically, I have read about (and/or used) Hallertau Hersbrucker, Hallertau Mittelfrueh, Hallertau Tradition, and Hallertau Northern Brewer. Now, often one sees references to just "Hallertau" hops, which I find very misleading as each of the above varieties has quite distinct characteristics. I have also seen some references to (and hops sold as) "Hallertau Hallertau" hops, which is not a variety listed in any of the references I own which identify Tradition, Mittelfrueh, and Hersbrucker. Questions: 1) Does Hallertau Hallertau actually exist, or is this just really sloppy nomenclature? If the latter, when one refers to Hallertau or Hallertau Hallertau, which strain do they actually mean? I would tend to think that it is the latter, and what is meant by the vague appelation is a nobel Hallertau hop like Mittelfrueh or it's closest descendent, since strains like Tradition are meant to provide Mittelfrueh-like characteristics from a heartier plant. 2) Is there a definitive book on hops out there which someone can recommend? I find that most of the books on homebrewing overly simplify the discussion on hops. Thanks for the info, Jeff - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey A. F. Hittinger Office: (734) 764-7573 W.M. Keck Foundation CFD Laboratory CFD Lab: (734) 936-0107 Department of Aerospace Engineering Fax: (734) 763-0578 The University of Michigan Pager: (734) 651-9586 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:04:42 -0400 From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Hops/CT, Steam RIMS Brewsters: Jim Liddil asks for information on growing hops in CT. Having grown hops in NJ, I can tell you about some diseases, like verticillium & fusarium wilt and other moldy things. Make sure to plant your vines with plenty of air flow and to not allow too many bines up the twine. Three is a good number at first and then in June you can allow three more to increase your yield. Pick periodically rather than dropping the entire bine and you will increase your yield and have all your hops at their peak. Depending on where you live, magnesium content in the soil may or may not be a problem, likewise boron. Have your soil analysed and tell the lab what you want to plant and they will advise the amendments needed. Potassium and nitrogen are necessary, and to have really great hops, fertilize them periodically throughout the summer. If you see leaves turning yellow around the bottom it may be a wilt, but it could also be the fact that the bine borrows nutrients from the lower portion of the bine to promote the newer growth. Fertilizer and perhaps even a little chelated iron and some magnesium may be in order. I cannot put my finger on the reference, but I believe a professor at Cornell(?) has done some work on re-installing New York State as a grower of hops. Check out the ag extension at Cornell. They will perhaps have some advice. - ------------------------------------------- Bill Macher and Steam RIMS. Bill says he can get the temperature of the returned wort to up to 190F and probably get it to 175F without any trouble. The reason for doing this is to get a rapid temperature jump, I suppose. Well, if you were making a big delT, I would expect you would have trouble since you would heat a lot of your wort at this high of a temperature. I would expect that you will find the beta amylase component reduced and your beers may become high FG, dextrinous and low in alcohol. OTOH, Decoctions, of course, boil a portion of the mash and there are still enough enzymes in the remaining mash to convert the starch and dextrins, so theoretically you might be able to go this high if only a portion of the wort saw this temperature. That is not exactly the same situation as what you have. But, I guess an estimate of the fraction of the wort you would need to heat could be made using the fact that the grist has a heat capacity of around 0.4 if I recall. I guess I really don't understand how you are heating your wort. Are you passing steam into a vessel containing a vessel of recirculating wort? I thought the point of using steam was reduce the chance for enzyme denaturization and to pass it directly into the mash. RIMS could still be used to even out the temperature hot spots. - --------------------------------------- Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:24:21 -0500 From: randy.pressley at SLKP.COM Subject: Mash/Lauter/Fermentor in one I've changed my procedure over the last couple of all grain batches which has made making good brew even easier. I have two converted kegs. Both have false bottoms. One is used as the Mash/Lauter tun while the other is used as the Boiler. After the Boil I transfer into the just cleaned Mash/Lauter tun keg which is now a fermentor. The false bottom has been removed at this point. I pitch the yeast and cover the keg with a loosely fitted lid. When fermentation slows I tie a garbage bag on top of the keg. I test specific gravity by simply opening the valve located near the bottom of the unit. Once I hit the target gravity I begin to bottle straight from the keg fermentor. I add corn sugar tables to each bottle so I eliminate the bottling bucket. Since the valve is a few inches above the bottom of the keg it allows me to remove the beer from the keg without getting the yeast which has fallen to the bottom of the keg below the valve. By tilting the keg while filling the last few bottles I get no significant beer waste. No bottle shaking is needed when using the tablets. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:35:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Arguello <robertac at calweb.com> Subject: RE: sanitizers >Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:48:19 EDT >From: JPullum127 at aol.com >how long will iodophor diluted to 12.5ppm and stored in an airtight bucket >stay potent? Assuming your water contains even trace amounts of chlorine....probably not much more than a day or two. According to the manufacturers of BTF Iodophor, light and chlorine will degrade the sanitizer quickly. I have stored a 12.5 ppm solution of iodophor and city water in a sealed corny keg and found that the amber color, (which according to the manufacturer, indicates viability), will fade within 48 hours. It would probably last longer if using distilled or chorine-free water. ******************************************************************** Robert Arguello <robertac at calweb.com> Corny kegs - ProMash Brewing Software http://www.calweb.com/~robertac ******************************************************************** Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:26:53 -0500 From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald) Subject: RE: Maximum Rims Return Temperature Target? >>>> From: "William W. Macher" <macher at telerama.lm.com> What is the desirable maximum temperature of the wort being returned to the mash tun?.... ....Limiting temperature in this way limits how quickly I can make transitions from one point to another..... ....Limiting the return temperature also increases the time to get to mashout temperature of 168, because the delta T drops as I approach 168, and I must cut back on steam input to avoid overshooting my self-imposed target..... ....I am not sure what the maximum temperature attainable on my system is, other than steam is self-limiting at about 212 degrees F. My goal is not maximum temperature anyway, but rather maximum heat transfer from my steam source to the mash tun..... ....What I try to do is to get maximum recirculation rate while limiting the temperature of the return to a safe value. I just do not have any idea what the maximum safe value is, and have probably set a limit that is too conservative at 170 F. <<<<< In an earlier post I asked you: === I wonder if you would consider injecting the steam directly into the mash and totally eliminate the need for a chamber. With the chamber, the steam could overheat the enzymes because of hot spots. With the steam injected into the mash, only the very small area near the 'feathers' would possibly get overheated to destroy the enzymes. You are really trying to heat the mash, so why not do it more directly? I have had some problems using a coil chamber RIMS where the heated liquid would take some time to raise the temperature from the top to the bottom of the mash. By heating in the center, this would greatly aid even heating and you would not need as rapid flow through the RIMS. === And now I am asking again, why not just inject directly into the mash? I have been using 175F in the HLT and circulating through the 5/8 OD copper coil in the HLT with no problems, the wort clears up nicely in about 20-30 minutes and looks as clear as tea. That's when I know that conversion is complete (sugar is transparent, starch is translucent in water). It is just a guess, but I would guess that the electric element in a chamber type of heating has some hot spots possibly even greater than the 175F. Ron Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:13:24 -0500 From: "Phil Uecker" <uecker at hpnc.com> Subject: Re: Known Alcohol Levels These pages give the percent alcohol, number of calories, specific gravity before (OG) and after (FG) fermentation, and apparent attenuation for many commercial beers. http://www.npac.syr.edu/users/ensmingr/beer/beerdata.html Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:18:11 -0400 From: Paul Haaf <haafbrau1 at juno.com> Subject: Septic replies Most people that responded to my post think that the diluted and relatively small amounts of sanitizers wouldn't affect a septic tank. However, more than half dump on their driveways anyway, just to be safe. Thanks to all for their replies. Paul Haaf ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:36:36 -0700 From: Bryan Gros <bryang at xeaglex.com> Subject: primary fermenter, kegging Dave Burley writes: >>I haven't read any of Charlie P.'s books for years so don't remember much of >>his advice. > >Most of it wasn't very good, like pouring hot wort through >the air ( see picture), using a carboy for a primary, >short mashes, bad iodine test method ( first ed) and >the like. What's wrong with using a carboy for a primary? >When I >changed over to double milling ( as I have described >in the HBD) my points went to low-mid nineties. Wow!!! I thought Dave Miller was cool for getting 32 pts/lb/gal, but 90! That is amazing! Just kidding. ******* "Anthony & Julie Brown" <brown32 at web1.ecol.net> writes: > >I am going to start kegging my beer soon and can't >decide what size co2 canister to purchase. I can >get a 5# for $35 or a 15# for $50. The 5# would fit >in the frige better but the 15# is more economical. >Any suggestions as to which one would serve me better. >Plan to have 2 kegs tapped at a time. HELP!! Depends on whether you think you'll ever take your kegs on the road, to a party or picnic or whatever. I originally bought a 15# to "permanently" attach it to my fridge (on the outside). Fine for a while, but a bitch to lug around to club meetings, friends houses etc. I finally found a used 2.5 # CO2 tank for about $50. Now I can use it to bring on the road (It is so light!). My 15# CO2 tank lasted about 2 years before a refill, for what it is worth. ******* I believe that diacetyl should only be considered a fault in your beer if you do not like diacetyl. If you like it, fine. Remember, wine is the only food that you need someone to tell you if you like it or not. :-) - Bryan Oakland CA gros at bigfoot.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 18:46:16 -0500 (CDT) From: BrewInfo <brewinfo at xnet.com> Subject: coriander/chill haze & protein rests/Wyeast #1214 & banana/thin mash Nathan writes: >Couldn't get any whole coriander at the brewshop or "natural" foods store. >Found some ground coriander. Very aromatic. Not quite as fresh as >crushing my own. Has anyone used commercially ground coriander in a wit >beer? How much should I use? I think I would actually use a little less >than when I used whole...fresh crushed...because of the greater surface >area and such. Comments? Suggestions? I don't know how fresh the ground coriander was, but I've found that old ground coriander smells "meaty" where as freshly-ground smells citrusy. BIG difference! I've had two kinds of Witbiers: ones that taste "right" and ones that taste "meaty." I have reason to believe that either the ones that taste "meaty" are using pre-ground coriander or the beer is old and oxidation causes the coriander to turn "meaty" whether it's in the beer or in a bin at the "natural" foods store. I've been able to find whole coriander at the grocery store (Jewel, Dominicks, Eagle...). McCormick has it, right next to the ground coriander. Oh, and if you want to grow it yourself, don't buy seeds... just buy some whole coriander at the store and plant that. It's the same stuff and a fraction of the price. Furthermore, the whole seeds need to dry thoroughly before you use them (what you buy will certainly be very dry). If you try to use whole coriander that is too "fresh," you will find that it smells rubbery upon crushing. *** Glyn writes: >While enjoying my latest CAP I was thinking, (always a mistake), "If I could >get rid of the chill haze this would be perfect." This one was corn meal, >cereal mash, single infusion. Great Head, last for quite a while. > >So do I need a SHORT protein rest. At 130? 135? 10 minutes? As noted in earlier posts, you might try to reduce polyphenol (tannin) extraction as chill haze is a reaction between proteins and polyphenols. If that doesn't work, yes, you might try 15 minutes at 135F-ish. That's exactly what I do when I find I have too much break or cannot eliminate chill haze from a recipe by being *more* careful with polyphenol extraction. Check and monitor your pH... it's very easy for it to be too high in a cereal mash because you have very pale grains (that therefore have low acidity). *** Matt writes: >Aroma/Flavor: My version was much more bananay than the Chimay. I used Wyeast >1214 which reportedly is the Chimay strain. I fermented it at 58F (a BJCP judge >from my homebrew club guessed that I used the Weihenstephan Wheat yeast >fermented at about 70F). I know Chimay is fermented at a much higher >temperature. I may try fermenting warmer next time. The banana ester >overwhelmed the aroma and flavor of my beer. The Chimay had a much nicer melody >of various fruits in both flavor and aroma. I have reason to believe that Wyeast #1214 needs to have an ENORMOUS starter to reduce the banana (and pour off the spent starter wort at least once). I made a Dubbel with #1214 about a year ago and it had only a faint banana aroma for the first month and then none. I fermented at about 63F, used oxygen to oxygenate and made the equivalent of a 4-liter starter (2 liters decanted and fed 2 liters more). Very Chimay-like. *** Matt writes: >Steve Alexander commented about George Fix's 104F (40C) rest in the last HBD. I >myself decided to test it with a recent batch I made. I mashed in with at 1 >qt/lb, rested for 30 minutes, then added enough boiling water to get up to my >saccrification temperature at 158F (70C). Everything went well enough, but I >only noticed a nominal increase in efficiency, well within the noise. I think >the problem was that I had to add so much boiling water to get the mash up to >158F that my mash ended up well over 2 qt/lb. My guess is that any efficiency >increase was counteracted by the fact that the enzymes were so diluted. Does >that sound like a decent assumption? Steve? George? George? Al? 2 quarts per pound is not that thin a mash. I know of many good homebrewers that go up to 2.5 quarts per pound and their beer comes out fine. It's not only the dilution of enzymes but also the dilution of their products (e.g. maltose). The products of conversion impede the work of the enzymes, so a dilute mash is not as terrible as you might think because while you lose some on one side of the process, you gain some on the other. One factor that *is* somewhat important is that the thickness of the mash affects the various enzymes differently. A thin mash will cause beta- amylase to denature faster whereas alpha-amylase is not affected as much. Therefore a thin mash will favour alpha-amylase. In other words, a thin mash at 152F will be more dextrinous than a thick one at 152F. There are slighly different yields also, but I don't recall the exact numbers. There's a table in Malting and Brewing Science. If I recall correctly [QDA] it was only a few percent difference [/QDA]. Al. Al Korzonas, Lockport, IL korz at brewinfo.com http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 20:28:21 -0500 From: "Erik Moe" <ehm at concentric.net> Subject: Re: TSP John Palmer writes: > There is a common product (here in California) called TSP in big letters in > a cardboard box. It is sold at Home Depot and Von's grocery store AND it is > NOT Tri-Sodium Phosphate. In fact it even says Contains no phospates. The > TSP stands for Totally Superior Product, and it is your average sodium > carbonate cleaner, just like Arm and Hammer Super Washing Soda. I really > don't know if true Na3PO4 is still available. I live in Oklahoma and buy my TSP from Home Depot. It is the real thing, it even says so right on the box: CAUTION: Contains Trisodium Phosphate. It is produced/packaged by Custom Building Products, Seal Beach CA. Erik Moe Norman, OK ehm at concentric.net Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:25:01 -0400 (EDT) From: pbabcock <pbabcock at mail.oeonline.com> Subject: More TSP Greetings, Beerings! Take me to your lager... Eric Moe sez: > I live in Oklahoma and buy my TSP from Home Depot. Here, too. Saw it today while buying parts to rebuild my 20 yr old compressor. It was right next to the TSP substitutes. 2.96 a box, same maker - about a pound, from the looks of the package. Meijer has Recochem brand trisodium phosphate in a really big box (4 lbs). Didn't catch the price, but my six-month-old box is marked 6.49. No, folks. Some state governments didn't allow the environmental activists to stir them into throwing the baby out with the bath water - no pun intended. Again, it was phosphates in laundry detergent - which, I believe, all but really smelly people used. How many people really use products like TSP? Oops! My mistake! It's inappropriate to confuse them with the facts. Oh, well. I think I'll go clear an acre or two of rainforest now and maybe poke some holes in my airconditioning lines... See ya! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at oeonline.com Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org HBD Web Site http://hbd.org The Home Brew Page http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/brew.html "Just a cyber-shadow of his former brewing self..." Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 20:28:22 -0500 From: "Rob" <brewmasters at texasbrew.com> Subject: co2 tank dilemma HELP!! where can I get co2 tanks for that price? :) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 23:50:24 CSTCDT From: "Anthony & Julie Brown" <brown32 at web1.ecol.net> Subject: Running multiple kegs First, thanks for all the replies on the last post.. Some great information there and will really help my decision. Next, I know you can run multiple kegs off one CO2 tank but am wondering about the easiest and most efficient way to do this. I have also heard that the way to go is to buy quick disconnects with threads rather than barbed hose connectors due to better compatablity between kegs. You must need disconnects for each keg you plan on running simultaneously I imagine but is there another way? Wouldn't swapping the entire disconnect be just as easy as unscrewing and switching the beer/gas line from the disconnect itself to dispense single kegs? I guess I am just a little confused here. Maybe it will help to see it in front of me this week when my disconnects arrive in the mail and I can get everything toether.... Tony B. and switching Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:16:27 -0700 From: Tim Holland <tholland at alaskalife.net> Subject: RE: Sweet! > Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:36:54 -0700 (PDT) > From: Tim Anderson > Subject: Sweet! > > Is it just me, or do a lot of recipes these days call for huge amounts > of crystal? Perhaps the collaborator milk stout is supposed to be > sweet, but 1.5 pounds seems like Kool Aid makings to me. And in a > recipe book my wife gave me for Christmas, recipe after recipe has a > pound or more. Heavens! I seldom use more than 4 oz, unless I'm > hopping the crap out of it. I don't care for beer on my pancakes, > thank you. > > I know what you mean. Lately, I've become very sensative to crystal flavors in many beers I've tried. Personaly, I never use more than about 4oz or so in any beer I make, except strong scotch ales. I am going to no crystal in the next several batchs to see what happens. (btw I've been brewing all grain for the last 4 or 5 years.) It amazes me that friends rave about comercial brews that are very sweet and "under finished". Maybe I'm getting old (turned 40 last summer), but the longer I brew, the pickier I get. :-) Can anybody else answer the question about so many published recipies using a LOT of crystal? Another Tim Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 02:50:27 CSTCDT From: "Anthony & Julie Brown" <brown32 at web1.ecol.net> Subject: Fruit extracts Anyone had any luck brewing with fruit extracts added just before bottling/kegging? I have tried a few fruit batches, a raspberry (5lbs berrys) and an apricot wheat(4 extra large cans 'cots), with real fruit but both seemed to have a mild fruit aroma and an almost non-existant fruit flavor. Do I dare try an extract or will persistance with the real thing pay off?? Note that I am looking for a pretty stron fruit flavor result here. Would not adding finishing hops help here?? Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 04:01:57 CSTCDT From: "Anthony & Julie Brown" <brown32 at web1.ecol.net> Subject: O-rings and valves Hopefully this may be the last of my kegging questions, but I sure appreciate the answers. First, is it really nescessary to replace all the o-rings on a used keg that just had soda in it. I have heard I definately need to replace them so my beer doesn't have soda taste to it, and I have heard that a good long soak in dish detergent seems to be all the old ones need to get rid of the pop residue and flavor. Any experience with this? Second, I need to clean out the kegs I just got from the Pepsi plant and when going to remove the in and out valves, my sockets in my socket kit weren't long enough to reach the nuts. Anyone know the size socket I need. Seems one (I think the in) is metric and the other standard. Would like to know what size of each so I can buy them in a spark plug version or something. Anyone know offhand the sizes they have on their ball lock kegs? Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 08:54:39 -0400 From: Paul Haaf <haafbrau1 at juno.com> Subject: Isopropyl alcohol in airlocks Thanks again for all the replies on septic systems. Now I have another question. Since isopropyl alcohol is so much cheaper than vodka, any reason why you shouldn't use it in an airlock? TIA. Cheers, Paul Haaf ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 23:06:47 +1000 From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at flexgate.infoflex.com.au> Subject: Dr pivo versus Dave Burley I am new to all of this but have read with interest the HBD over the last few weeks. The technical and scientific knowledge of Dr Pivo and Dave Burley would seem beyond the scope of a lot of home brewers (myself included) but I wonder if the beer they make tastes any better than that made by us ordinary guys. For that matter I wonder who they make their beer for other than themselves! In fact I wonder if they actually make beer at all or just pontificate on the subject. Now I am probably being as nasty as the two of them have been towards each other but the point I wish to make is this : Home Brewing is supposed to be fun. Sure there is a lot to be learned and none of us will ever know it all but lets not lose sight of why we enjoy it. I am assuming of course that we are all enjoying it. My friends, neighbours, relatives and even my wife and associated girlfriends think my beer is more special than any commercial versions available. Well I am flattered to hear this but I am well aware that it is not too difficult to produce a beer that leaves the average commercial version for dead. This result has been achieved without the intense scientific input that Dr Pivo and Dave Burley seem to think is necessary. To this end I would like to say that Charlie Papazian provides an attitude to beer making which is quite refreshing! Enjoy it and enjoy the fact that those around you enjoy what you make. Getting very scientific about it all is fine but lets not take it all too seriously. Cheers, Phil Yates. yates at infoflex.com.au Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 09:41:59 -0400 From: "David C. Harsh" <David.Harsh at uc.edu> Subject: Wyeast 1214 and bubblegum >Al said: >> ...Orval has Brettanomyces among the bottling strain mixture. Brett >> is what gives Orval that "bubblegum" aroma. and the Pat said: >Really? I got the bubble-gum aroma from fermenting an Orval clone with >WYEAST 1214 Belgian Ale yeast. ....The aroma was so intense.... I can't speak for Brett, but I've noticed that 1214 produces the bubblegum flavor at elevated temperatures (i.e. > 70 F) and the intensity increases with fermentation temperature. Its easily controllable if you don't let the fermentation temp get too high; I've found that in the 65-68 F range the levels are much more subdued although still clearly detectable. Look inside the smack pack and you'll even see that they include the miniature comic strip... Dave Dave Harsh Bloatarian Brewing League, Cincinnati, OH Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:01:52 -0400 From: "Spies, Jay" <Spies at dhcd.state.md.us> Subject: split boil All - Patrick Flahie asks in #3005 how to handle a split boil . . . As a user of (2) 5-gallon pots for full stove top boils of all grain batches for several years now, I can offer a simple solution. Instead of running off your first 3 gallons of high gravity runings into one pot, and the remaining 3 into a second pot, why not use a third, smaller container to run off into (I use a 2 quart pyrex measuring cup) and then just add the first bowl to the first pot, the second bowl to the second pot, the third bowl to the first pot, and so on... It may sound a bit tedious, but I enjoy the process, so for me, it's not really work. Then, just split your hop additions evenly, and don't fret about adjusting for gravity... Also, you can start the heat (if you're on a stove like me) after you run off a few quarts, thus making the boil start faster on those notoriously slow 12K btu gas stoves like mine. Hope this helps - Jay Spies Wishful Thinking Basement Brewery Baltimore, MD Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:41:30 -0500 From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald) Subject: RE: CO2 tanks, kegs, & shelf life of kegged vs. bottled homebrew >>>> From: "George De Piro" <George_De_Piro at berlex.com> .....It is sometimes nice to have a small bottle for lugging to parties, but otherwise the bigger the better.... <<<< Yes, but if you go the bigger route, aluminum is MUCH lighter and easier to carry. I have a 25# alum, and also have a 25# steel, and the difference is amazing. >>>> In fact, it is easier to keep oxygen out of your beer at packaging if you keg rather than bottle. My procedure is to clean the keg (take it apart every time and use a .22 caliber rifle barrel cleaner to get the gunk out of the dip tube) and then sanitize it by filling it with nearly boiling water (be careful!). I then reassemble it and let it stand 15 minutes with a small amount of CO2 pressure (so that the cooling and contracting liquid doesn't create a vacuum that could potentially destroy the keg). <<<< I thought a vacuum would cause the poppets to depress and let air in. Also, the lid would be pushed down by outside air pressure, and this too would allow air inside. We are talking about Corny kegs, are we? This destroyed keg by vacuum would be a good candidate for "Believe it or not" in St. Augustine Florida. :>)) >>>> I then push the hot water out of the keg with CO2 (you can collect this water and bring it back to a boil and use it to sanitize another keg or two). This leaves me with a clean keg that is completely free of oxygen. I then transfer the finished beer directly into the keg through the "liquid out" fitting (using the "gas in" fitting as a vent) and voila! Kegged homebrew with very little oxygen pickup! <<<< Finally I get to ask someone who knows. George, does water evaporate into hydrogen and oxygen? If so, than I have often wondered how can one push the water out with CO2 and have no oxygen? Would the water film left on all the insides evaporate into the keg inner space? In fact, beer is mostly water, now I am really confused. Why would the water not evaporate out of the beer and emate hydrogen and oxygen? >>>> Beer packaged in such a way should be more stable than your average homebrew-bottling procedure could achieve. You'll learn exactly how long your beers can keep by drinking them and taking tasting notes. I have found some big beers (like a 1.062 Oktoberfest or a 1.066 IPA) can stay palatable for several months. <<<< This sort of testing is called destructive testing, you can get your answer, but your original object is gone. :>)) >>>> As for the question about the beer retaining its carbonation with the CO2 tank disconnected: it will maintain carbonation a *very* long time as long as the keg has no leaks. Simply store the keg with the amount of CO2 pressure that was required to carbonate the beer. There is no reason to store it with the gas tank attached. <<<< Yes, and if there is the slightest leak anywhere in your system, you will loose all your CO2 if you leave it attached. By the way, I can't remember where I heard this but: It appears that the valve on CO2 cylinders is a two direction valve, that is - it seals when fully closed, and it seals the stem when fully open, so never use it for long periods in the middle position, as leakage may occur and good bye CO2. Ron Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:49:05 -0500 From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald) Subject: RE: RIMS heating control >>> From: "Doug Moyer" <shyzaboy at geocities.com> ....Do any of you control your element manually? How? A dimmer switch? On/off switch? Any advice would be appreciated.... <<<< I use a solid state 240V 25 amp relay, controlled with a 555 timer circuit, it is simple on/off with a rate of about 1/2 second. I use a circuit that allows a potentiometer adjustment of the on/off ratio from 0 to 100%. It works very well for me, and if I ever need automatic control, it can be gated with a simple logic level or dry contact switch. Previously, I used a cheap lamp dimmer feeding the solid state relay, and this also worked, but the realy got much hotter, and I needed a special relay with random firing instead of the more common zero crossing relays. Ron Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 12:06:47 -0400 From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Brewsters, Open fermentations Brewsters: Jim rehashes a recurring observation of my greeting. that "brew-ster" refers historically to a female role in a productive activity, like Baxter for baker or one which it is still true to historical gender usage even if it no longer has the same meaning - Spinster. I submit that I use "Brewsters" with the same intention that a fellow football player uses the term "OK, 'girls' let's go get them." It is a measure of respect for the beaten and bruised, but triumphant homebrewer. I could also argue that the "-ster" ending no longer has the historical meaning, since we often call a male a 'jokester' ( meaning a rogueish, but likeable person) rather than a 'joker' ( which has a different and more negative meaning). In any event, you should take it as a friendly greeting with no disrespect ( quite the opposite) intended. - ------------------------------------------------------------------ On my comments about why I disagree with CPapazian As to what is "wrong" with a carboy for the primary fermenter, it is a matter of style. I find the difficulty with cleaning the carboy and overflow tube and the possible overflow of the carboy to be too messy and theoretically more prone to contamination with repeated fermentations with the same carboy/hose than an "open" fermenter into which you can place a non-abrasive scrubber easily and get it clean. No overflow tube assembly needed. Cover it with a plastic sheet held down with rubber bands and you are in business. Lifting and toting a glass bottle filled with fifty plus pounds of liquid in it is not my idea of an ideal procedure. If you drop a plastic container ( less likely, perhaps, since it probably has handles or at least a place to grip it) you may have a mess, but no injuries are likely. I do use a carboy into which I rack the fermenting liquid in 3 to 5 days to minimize the potential for contamination as the outgassing of CO2 declines. In the secondary, the bathtub ring of hops and protein is minimal and cleaning is easier. Safety is a problem, but reduced by half from a two carboy brewing system. Just my preference and decades of experience of brewing without an infection, others have different opinions as the HBD archives will show. Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 09:21:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Arguello <robertac at calweb.com> Subject: RE: RIMS heating control Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:17:50 -0400 From: "Doug Moyer" <shyzaboy at geocities.com> Subject: RIMS heating control Doug Moyer asked: Do any of you control your element manually? How? A dimmer switch? On/off switch? Any advice would be appreciated. I do. I paid about $80 for a 2000 watt industrial dimmer control. Don't try using a typical household dimmer switch, they can't handle the power demands and will overheat, possibly causing a fire. ******************************************************************** Robert Arguello <robertac at calweb.com> Corny kegs - ProMash Brewing Software http://www.calweb.com/~robertac ******************************************************************** Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:11:46 -0800 From: Gail Elber <gail at brewtech.com> Subject: Priming cider Marc suggests: >>>>> You may want to try and prime with fresh, home-pasteurized apple juice (hold at 180F for 30 minutes) but I can't provide an estimated amount. The new Brewing Techniques has an article on the sugar content of certain fruits, but I don't recall if apples are on there. <<<<< According to that article, apples themselves are (by weight) 3.8% sucrose, 6.0% fructose, and 1.2% glucose, for a total of 11% fermentable sugar. I guess the percentages would be different for juice, though, so that's not much help. Those figures came from the Foods and Nutrition Encyclopedia (CRC Press), which might have the figure for apple juice. And then there's the question of sweet vs. tart apples, juicy vs. mealy, etc. BTW, that article (Gary Spedding, "Determining the Sugar Contribution of Fruit in Beer," BrewingTechniques March/April 1999, pp. 36-37) is just crying out for a "Reader's Technical Note" pinning down how much of a fruit's fermentable sugar is actually extracted when fruit is steeped in hot wort or thrown into the fermentor. The author assumed 75% for steeping, but I don't know if anyone has ever determined the real figure experimentally. Gail Elber Associate Editor BrewingTechniques P.O. Box 3222 Eugene, OR 97403 541/687-2993 fax 541/687-8534 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:13:13 -0500 (CDT) From: BrewInfo <brewinfo at xnet.com> Subject: Tim Webb's Book Bill writes: >To read more about these styles, check out Tim Webb's excellent book >about the Beers of Belgium, Holland and Luxembourg, put out by CAMRA, >which is now available in the US. I have to disagree with your assessment of this book. I had it in hand during my last trip to Belgium. There are several editions, but the one I had at the time was only several months old. MANY of the cafes listed were closed or had changed ownership (and now only sold Jupiler!) or housed Middleeastern restaurants. Hours or operation were often wrong and things like "tours first saturday of every month" were also incorrect and outdated! If you do get the book, CALL AHEAD and get the correct information. Personally, I would rather trust Peter Crombecq's website: http://www.dma.be/p/bier/beer.htm Al. Al Korzonas, Lockport, IL korz at brewinfo.com http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/ Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:16:21 -0500 (CDT) From: BrewInfo <brewinfo at xnet.com> Subject: pH I knew my bass-ackwards explanation was going to get me in trouble. Please read what I said again more carefully... it is rather convoluded. Arnold writes: >> It's not surprising that you didn't get hot break (and probably got >> pretty poor cold break too)... too low a pH will decrease break >> formation. It becomes a big problem below 4.8 (according to the books) >> but nothing is a step function in nature (well, maybe the impact of >> your head on the exhaust hood) so you will begin to get less break >> well above that 4.8... I would guess 5.2 or so. ><SNIP> > >I guess I am confused? You say "too low a pH will decrease break" then >say "you will begin to get less break well above that 4.8... I would >guess 5.2 or so"????? What I meant was that break *BEGINS* to decrease at around 5.2 and then you get *less* break at 5.1, and even *less* at 5.0 and even *less* at 4.9... The book (I think it was Malting and Brewing Science, but it might have been DeClerck) said 4.8, but we know this is not a magical number. I would say that you can have *problems* with not enough break at 4.8 and below, but that *start* to get less break at around 5.2. >I brewed a wheat beer this past weekend without doing any addition of >brewing salts to the mash or checking the PH. When I started the boil, my >curiosity got the better of me and I checked the PH in the boiler, it was >~6.0. That's quite high... you'll get great break, but you will also extract quite a bit of polyphenols (tannins) from the hops during the boil. Also, your hop utilisation will be *slightly* higher than if the pH was lower. I've also read where some authors have said that you get a "rough" bitterness from a high-pH boil, but that could simply be that they are extracting more polyphenols and calling that astringency "roughness" or maybe oxidising the finished beer (either directly or via HSA) and then getting bitterness from oxidised polyphenols. Al. Al Korzonas, Lockport, IL korz at brewinfo.com http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/ Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:26:18 -0500 (CDT) From: BrewInfo <brewinfo at xnet.com> Subject: Proctor's beer Sorry that this is so late... Bob writes: >Several years ago when taking the exam to move up to National, I evaluated >a beer brewed by the proctor, a bitter. Fortunateley, or unfortunately, I >had just returned form London 3 weeks prior (had a few bitters). I had >found many problems with the exam beer. > >After the exam we talked with the proctor and several other local judges >about the bitter. The other judges had also evaluated the exam beers with >the proctor. There was agreement between the proctor and these judges on >all but the proctor's bitter. All the local judges, and most exam takers >agreed with my evaluation. The proctor thought it was a perfect bitter and >because of his "National" status said the lower ranked judges didn't know a >good bitter. Several years ago, I too got bitten by this "proctor brewed the beer" problem. It was a fruit beer (open to wide interpretation to begin with) and the proctor scored it very high. I thought it had problems and scored it relatively low. In the end, I got the 90 I needed to get to Master, but I've since been a very strong advocate against the proctor brewing any of the beers judged. When I administered the exam (three times since then) I always tried to get beers from other people to use for the tasting portion. One time I did have to use my own beer for one of the four beers, but what I did was blend a few bottles of my beer with a bottle of another brewer's beer in a pitcher. The resulting beer was different enough to where I felt I was not biased. Al. Al Korzonas, Lockport, IL korz at brewinfo.com http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/ Return to table of contents
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