HOMEBREW Digest #3019 Sat 01 May 1999

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
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  RE: HELP : my water really sucks! (mark)
  Re: Lawnmower Beer/ Try Ginger (Jeff Renner)
  insolubility of Calcium phosphate (ALAN KEITH MEEKER)
  re: Hop Oil as a preservative? (Lou.Heavner)
  Belligerent Blonde Boys (Eric.Fouch)
  re: how many capfuls. (Michael A. Owings)
  Re: Sanitizing via the oven - HBD #3015 (Sheridan Adams)
  BJCP status (jslusher)
  Saturday's toast (John Adsit)
  Wort Cooling (Dan Listermann)
  BigBrew 1999 ("Jeffrey M. Kenton")
  PO4 (AJ)
  O2 caps. ("Rob")
  Brew Bottle Baking (Joy Hansen)
  Honey flavor in beer (PDWaltman)
  240V Power Controller (Biergiek)
  Dead Yeast vs. Living Yeast (Nutrient/autolysis) (Ted McIrvine)
  Scorched wort crud removal and prevention...? ("Chris Pittock")
  Re: BrewPubs in France (mark)
  re: Eating Gyprock Walls ("Dr. Pivo")
  Re: Cleaning O2 caps (pbabcock)
  diacetyl (sedam)
  Guinness heads and nitrogen (David Rinker)
  nitrogen solubility ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  CP bottle giller ("Braam Greyling")
  Re:  Idophor [sic] in high bicarbonate water ("Houseman, David L")
  RE: All-grain brewing ("Craig Wolfangel") (ROATTW)" <ROATTW at UCMAIL.UC.EDU>
  bottles (Jason.Gorman)
  Re: A taste of Gypsum (Jeff Renner)
  Re: kegging question (Jeff Renner)

Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! 2000 MCAB Qualifiers: Spirit of Free Beer! Competition 5/22/99 (http://burp.org/SoFB99); Oregon Homebrew Festival 5/22/99 (http://www.mtsw.com/hotv/fest.html); Buzz-Off! Competition 6/26/99 (http://www.voicenet.com/~rpmattie/buzzoff) Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!! To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org. **SUBSCRIBE AND UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS MUST BE SENT FROM THE E-MAIL ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!** IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, the autoresponder and the SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE commands will fail! Contact brewery at hbd.org for information regarding the "Cat's Meow" Back issues are available via: HTML from... http://hbd.org Anonymous ftp from... ftp://hbd.org/pub/hbd/digests ftp://ftp.stanford.edu/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer AFS users can find it under... /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer COPYRIGHT for the Digest as a collection is currently held by hbd.org (Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen). Digests in their entirity CANNOT be reprinted/reproduced without this entire header section unless EXPRESS written permission has been obtained from hbd.org. Digests CANNOT be reprinted or reproduced in any format for redistribution unless said redistribution is at absolutely NO COST to the consumer. COPYRIGHT for individual posts within each Digest is held by the author. Articles cannot be extracted from the Digest and reprinted/reproduced without the EXPRESS written permission of the author. The author and HBD must be attributed as author and source in any such reprint/reproduction. (Note: QUOTING of items originally appearing in the Digest in a subsequent Digest is exempt from the above. Home brew clubs NOT associated with organizations having a commercial interest in beer or brewing may republish articles in their newsletters and/or websites provided that the author and HBD are attributed. ASKING first is still a great courtesy...) JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 16:44:26 +0200 From: mark <shrike.cars at accesinternet.com> Subject: RE: HELP : my water really sucks! Alan, Sounds like Iron.... Something you don't want in brewing water... (not in excess of 5ppm).When I lived in Connecticut, the water I had had a lot of iron in it, sometimes even after the water softener got done with it. So, there's this product called Iron Out, you add it to the salt in your water softener. It never seemed to create any problems when I was brewing (excellent water aside from the Iron) so you might want to give it a try. It can be purchased at Home Depot etc in the water softener department.... Or ask some of the more knowledgeable people on this forum... They can probably help with filters, other products for removing iron etc. Or tell me that I was crazy to use Iron Out.... Or maybe I'm wrong about the Iron? If anyone else knows, please let me know..... BTW: That water distiller sounds expensive, why not a filter instead? Hope that helps... Prost! Mark PS: Any replies, please use the reply-to address at the top of my message (mark at awfulquiet.com) - -------- >>>> >Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 08:37:32 -0400 >From: Alan McKay <amckay at ottawa.com> > >Hi folks, > > <snip> >As you all know, I moved last weekend. But my water in my new >place is horrible! It tastes rusty. There is a water softener there, >and >I bought salts and put them in, but there is no difference yet. Maybe >the thing isn't turned on or something, I don't know. Or maybe it's >set to only go off once a week or something. I'll have to dig into the >manual and see what's what. > >I know I have to get the water tested to see exactly what's going on, >but aside from that what else can I do? > >I'm considering getting a water distiller or something. Anyone know >if that's possible, and how much it costs? Like one of those machines >that produce the bottled water you buy in drug stores. > >Man, this is really, really depressing ... > >cheers, > -Alan Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:15:39 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: Lawnmower Beer/ Try Ginger Spencer Tomb <astomb at ksu.edu> makes the excellent suggestion of using ginger and lemon peel in a refresing summer beer and asks: >I would like to know others experience with Ginger Beers. A favorite of mine is ginger wit, a standard wit but without orange peel or lactic acid and with fresh ginger to replace the bite of lactic acid. The recipe is at Cat's Meow: http://hbd.org/brewery/cm3/recs/09_85.html Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 11:02:10 -0400 (EDT) From: ALAN KEITH MEEKER <ameeker at welch.jhu.edu> Subject: insolubility of Calcium phosphate Hi all. Our e-mail system here at Hopkins apparently got hacked and has been nearly unusable for weeks now (consequently, I've been unususally productive in the lab for a change!) The system is slowly getting back into shape and even lets us e-mail out during off hours. Ahhhh modern technology, gotta love it. Matt Brooks recently wrote: >Subject: Phosphate removal using Calcium >You would have to use an awful lot of CaSO4 or CaCl to precipitate >phosphate (PO4) in water or wort. In the field of Water Treatment, >phosphate is removed with quicklime or CaO (generally added in a slaked >form of CaOH2), when added in this form the pH of the water rises >quickly. It is important to note that this is not an equivalent per >equivalent based >reaction as many chemical reactions are, it is a pH dependent reaction >and phosphate WILL NOT PRECIPITATE (as hydroxyapatite) UNTIL THE pH >REACHES 11.0 (or higher), after which point there is no stopping the >reaction less you add an acid to lower the pH below 11.0. >I seriously doubt anyone would/could be adding enough Calcium (Ca >anything) to get the pH up above 11.0 ? (even if your alkalinity was >low to begin with) >Matt B. >Northern VA. Matt, I don't understand your stated requirement for high pH in order to get CaPO4 to precipitate. Years back we were doing enzyme kinetic studies in which we were using a phosphate buffer system. The enzyme had an absolute requirement for calcium so we were titrating in calcium and it didn't take long before we started getting anomalous readings and when we took the cuvette out of the fluorometer sure enough we'd precipitated out the phosphate with the added calcium. All this was at a pH of 6.8 and certainly never got anywhere near 11. Of course, the concentrations of phosphate and calcium we were using may not have been close to those encountered in brewing so I did some back of the envelope calculations and a quickie experiment to check this out... Question 1: What calcium concentrations are homebrewers typically generating in their water treatment protocols? Well, obviously it's a bit complicated by factors such as the inorganic composition of the water to begin with and whether one does things like boil the water but I think that homebrewers adding CaCl2 or CaSO4 to their water will be attaining Ca levels on the order of 2-5 mM (this assumes additions of 5-10 grams of either salt to a 20L/5 gallon batch). Question 2: How much phosphate is developed in the mash? Again a bit complex, depends upon the malts used, what form of phosphate we are talking about, etc.. The only source I could quickly lay my hands on (MBAA The Practical Brewer) quotes PO4 levels in wort at between 575 and 846 mg/L for a 12 degP wort. This comes out to be roughly milimolar amounts of phosphate but this is for /wort/ so I imagine the actual levels in the mash itself may be substantially higher due to the lower pre-sparge volume. Question 3: What is the behavior of calcium and phosphate at these concentrations? In a quick and dirty experiment I took 1 volume of a 10mM phosphate buffer (pH= 7.4) and mixed in an equal volume of 10mM CaCl2 (final concentration of 5mM for each) A cloudy white precipitate immediately formed. The measured pH after ppt. was virtually unchanged. So, it seems clear to me that Ca and PO4 readilly precipitate at neutral pH. The question then arises as to what happens in the mash or wort. It may be that in the case of brewing the Ca and/or PO4 are tied up with other compounds-- the mash liquor and wort are, after all, much more complex than the simple buffer solutions we're playing around with here in the lab. Perhaps concentrations of the free ions are below the levels at which appreciable precipitation occurs? Anyone have any data on this? Surely someone must have looked at this... -Alan Meeker Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:55:45 -0500 From: Lou.Heavner at frco.com Subject: re: Hop Oil as a preservative? Badger Roullett <branderr at microsoft.com> writes: >>>>> > How about just making it without hops at all? If it could be done 500 years > ago, I'm sure that it can be done now. Unless you are planning on storing > the ale in less than ideal conditions for long periods, I cannot imagine any > problems. I also believe that some of these old ales were quite sour > affairs, so lack of hops may be an advantage. The problem here that ale in period was consumed very quickly, and usually did not last long. two weeks was about the longest you could keep it. So many of the recipes I am reproducing are only meant to be around for short periods of time. But I can only drink so much beer myself, so I want to preserve it. Also my research seems to point to the use of herbs (besides for medicinal purposes) was to mask the off flavors of infected ale. Hops was known very early on (pre 1000) for its preservative properties. The English were the last to fall sway to the "demon weed" which was being brought in by the Flemish. <<<<< Hi Badger, I can see 3 approaches you might try. They all have trade-offs. 1) For true authenticity, brew more frequently in smaller batches which you are able to consume in a short period of time. Of course, it may be hard to scale down to very small sized batches and still retain the desired level of authenticity. And if you have a family like mine, you will never have enough time to brew a continuous supply of beer doing small batches. 2) Bottle the beer and consume as normal. What you didn't finish in a couple weeks, pasteurize. You should be able to do this safely in a hot water bath slightly below boiling for 30 minutes or so. In this case, you should get stable beer unless there are problems with yeast autolysis/decomposition or other heat induced chemical reactions. With no hops, at least you wouldn't have to worry about skunking. 3) Sterile filter the beer. This requires the filtration equipment and would probably strip out a lot of flavor as well. If you keg, this may be a reasonable approach. Just drink the beer for a couple weeks and what is left over could be transferred to a sanitized keg via a sterile fitration setup. Regards, Lou Heavner - Austin, Tx Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 11:18:00 -0400 From: Eric.Fouch at steelcase.com Subject: Belligerent Blonde Boys HBD- Jasons just a little belligerent, 'cause my seven month old bottle of Imperial Stout hosed most of his basement during the Redwings SWEEP of Anaheim. Related to Jasons aforeunaswered question about yeast autolysis as yeast nutrient- When I bottled up my latest wit, it had only been in the primary for 15 days, but smelled (not reeked) of autolysis. I bottled anyway, hoping the answer to Jason's question will be "Yes- yeast will reabsorb some autolysed odors." I used Wyeast 3944. I have never had autolysis in the primary. Even after letting beers sit for 3-4 weeks unracked. I built a big starter, had good fermentation (still a few bubbles an hour when I bottled), so I don't know where this autolysis came from. OK I know where, but not why. Fred's at a loss. He told Jason to ask somebody else out of fear of his wrath at not knowing the answer. Eric (Why does daddy Steven hold daddy Michael like that?) Fouch Bent Dick (Oh- THAT'S why) YoctoBrewery Kentwood, MI Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 15:56:01 GMT From: mikey at swampgas.com (Michael A. Owings) Subject: re: how many capfuls. zzymurgist at yahoo.com asks: > How many capfuls of BTF in 5 gallons equals 25ppm? > Somewhere along the way I picked up 1 capful for each > gallon, so hopefully this is close. I think 1 cap full for each gallon is a bit too much. >From the BTF instructions: One cap (1/4 oz) in 2.5 gals will give you 12.5 ppm, so two capfulls/5 gallons is about right. 4 capfuls would give you 25ppm in 5 gals, but this is hardly necessary -- 12.5 ppm should be fine. Note that your cap size may vary -- I use the large size BTF bottle. *********************** Lord grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change. The courage to change the things I can. *** And the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they pissed me off *** Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 11:15:12 -0500 From: Sheridan Adams <sjadams at Legato.COM> Subject: Re: Sanitizing via the oven - HBD #3015 Richard writes: For bottling my last two batches, I sanitized my RETURNABLE beer bottles by rinsing them in household water and then baking them in the oven for 30 minutes. For the first "bake" (first batch bottled) I used a temperature of 275 degrees and one or two of the 54 bottles broke. For the second bake (next batch), I used a lower temperature of 250 degrees and about 10 of the bottles broke... Question, has anyone been successful sanitizing in the oven and what is wrong with my procedure or what is the suggested oven procedure? Thanks. Richard, I think there may be a couple of things going on here. First off, are you putting the bottles in the oven wet? Is the oven pre-heated? Either of these things could cause the bottles to break due to uneven heating. I would suggest putting dry bottles in a cold oven. Also, you may want to raise the temperature slower than the oven normally does. You'd do this but setting the thermostat higher in intervals of, say, 10 minutes. And one other thought, check to see if the bottles have any 'dings' or defects. That could be another cause. Lurch Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 12:03:20 -0400 From: jslusher <jslusher at flash.net> Subject: BJCP status Does anyone know of its status...I keep getting a "no DNS entry" when I try to access "http://www.bjcp.org"...has it changed addresses?...Cheers! ************************************************ John Slusher jslusher at flash.net http://www.flash.net/~jslusher/crabs ************************************************ Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:34:49 -0600 From: John Adsit <jadsit at jeffco.k12.co.us> Subject: Saturday's toast Dear group, I have been immersed in the details of my work here in the school district where I work. I did take a moment a while back to try to clear my head and read an HBD or two; I even responded to a question off list. I would just like to ask you all a favor. I am going to do the big brew thing as a part of a return to normality. When we do the toast, I will add a thought for the fallen students in my school district. I will especially remember my friend and rival coach, Dave Sanders. I hope you will join me. - -- John Adsit Instructional Services Jefferson County Schools Golden, Colorado jadsit at jeffco.k12.co.us Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 15:18:26 -0400 From: Dan Listermann <72723.1707 at compuserve.com> Subject: Wort Cooling Regarding Andrew Nix's response to my post, perhaps I failed to make my point clear. The object in wort cooling is to cool the wort to pitching temperature, say 75 F, as quickly as possible. There are at least two nonchiller ways to do this when brewing with concentrated worts such as most extract brews. Most books tell you to combine the boiling wort with water and cool to pitching temperature. Unless the water is very cold and / or the wort is rather concentrated, this can take a long time and leave the wort exposed to some bug loving temperatures for long peroids. Another way is to cool the boiling wort while it is in the pot before mixing it with the water. Remember our goal to to cool the wort to pitching temperature as quickly as possible. Moving heat energy is easier when there is a high differential in the temperatures between the object being cooled and the cooling medium. Boiling wort contains about half the mass of the whole wort, but most of the heat energy. It will be far easier to remove the heat in this state rather than after it is mixed in with the rest of the water when the temperature differential between the cooling medium and the wort will be much lower. Interestingly the specific heat of wort is very close to the specific heat of water so these calculations should be simple. Let us say that we have 2.5 gallons of wort at 200 F. Its heat content is about 2.5 * 200 = 500. 2.5 gallons of 55 F water has a heat content of 2.5 * 55 = 137.5 . Mixing these two will produce a wort with a temperature of (500 + 137.5 ) / 5 gallons = 127.5 F. Please note that no heat has been removed from the wort. We need to now reduce this thermal mass to 75 F with cooling water or an ice bath. This could take some time, especially considering that the temperature differential between the wort and the cooling medium gets rather close toward the end. Cooling the boiling wort in the pot BEFORE mixing it with the water is much easier. The heat content of the finished wort will be 5 * 75 = 375 The heat content of the water is 2.5 * 55 = 137.5. Subtracting one from the other leaves us with 237.5 in the 2.5 gallons of wort. The wort in the pot will need to be cooled to 137.5 / 2.5 = 95 F. When it is combined with the 2.5 gallons of 55 F water the temperature will be 75 F. When I brew with extracts I just cool the pot in a stationary tub full of cold water. Only two or three water changes are required. I don't waste my time or money with ice. To get the same performance from near freezing water you would have to boil a concentrated wort of only 1.25 gallons and combine it with 3.75 gallons of 32 F water. The astute will note that worts of that concentration are prone to caramelization and poor hop utilization. I apologize in advance for the use of aproximations, the lack of large decimal point counts and maybe lacking terms. It has been some time. Just multiply the gallons times the temperature. It works. Dan Listermann dan at listermann.com 72723.1707 at compuserve.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 15:13:39 -0500 From: "Jeffrey M. Kenton" <jkenton at iastate.edu> Subject: BigBrew 1999 Fellow Brewers: I just want to go on the record and say that I think Big Brew is a great idea. I also hope that the annual nature of it continues into the future. As a member of a recently developed homebrew club in Ames, IA, I can attest that there are many more brewers out there just waiting to be found. Big Brew is a great way to reacquaint onesself with his or her brewing compatriates, and even more importantly, to meet new brewing "buddies." I intend to use the chance on Saturday May 1st to learn even more about brewing from some very fresh faces. Look for a notice from me on the location of the Big Brew pics from Site #2. I wrote this message with the thought that it might be published May 1st, so if you are within one hours drive of Ames, give me a yell by email. I'll be checking it hourly on Saturday. The festivities start at 1pm CDT, but will probably last well into the afternoon. I hope everyone is having fun. I know I am. Jeff Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 16:43:50 -0500 From: AJ <ajdel at mindspring.com> Subject: PO4 There has been some discussion as to whether excess calcium can strip a wort of its phosphate. This is quite unlikely as there is quite a bit of phosphate in barley (around 1% of its weight). Assuming nominal water to grist ratios and that all the phosphate is solubilized and freed (from phytin) this would give about 30 millimoles per liter. By comparison, very hard water has, say, 300 mg/L Ca++ which is only 7.5 mM/L. Thus phosphate is going to be in excess except in very unusual cases and it is more likely that calcium will be stripped by the phosphate rather than the other way around. But don't worry about that. You won't drop all the calcium with an excess of phosphate any more than you will drop it all with excess carbonate. Matt Brooks posted in #3016 that phosphate does not precipitate until high pH is reached and that the precip does not form on an equivalent per equivalent basis. Strictly speaking neither of these statements is quite correct though we could proably accept the former in a practical sense. Since the chemistry is similar to that which pertains in the case of decarbonation with lime for which I posted a procedure a day or 2 ago I'll discuss the mechanism a bit. Carbon dioxide can participate in the following reactions in water CO2 + H2O <--> H2CO3 <--> H+ + HCO3- <---> H+ + CO3-- With phosphorous pentoxide the reactions are similar P2O5 + 3H2O <--> 2H3PO4 <--> 2H+ + 2H2PO4- <--> 2 H+ + 2HPO4-- <--> 2H+ + 2PO4--- In both cases we move to the right at high pH and to the left at low i.e at low pH (acid conditions) H2CO3 and H3PO4 are the predominant species and at high pH (alkaline conditions) bicarbonate and phosphate ions are predominant. Thus, since calcium bicarbonate and calcium dihydrogen phosphate are quite soluble whereas calcium carbonate and calcium phosphate are not, to remove carbonate and phosphate from water we raise the pH converting them to, respecitively CO3-- and PO4---, in the presence of calcium as, for example, by using calcium hydroxide as the alkali). This promotes the formation of highly insoluble calcium carbonate and calcium phosphate (actually hydroxyappatite in the case of phosphate but its not so simple with phosphate, especially when carbonate is also present) which precipitates. As the solids leave the solution PO4--- and CO3-- concentrations are reduced which upsets the equilibrium between the varios ions which are in proportions determined by the pH and pK's of the acids. To restore the proportions to equilibrium values either protonated species (HCO3-, H2PO4-, HPO4--) must convert to less protonated species (lose protons) or the pH must be lowered or both. Both applies here as conversion to less protonated forms releases protons (H+ ions) which lowers the pH. This is the mechanism responsible for the fall-back in pH which I mentioned in a previous post on decarbonation by lime. These reactions occur on an equivalent basis as do all reactions. The distinction here is that one must keep track of the variations in the realtive proportions of the different species which is a function of pH. The decrease in pH can be used to detect the fact that precipitation is taking place, even at low pH. To demonstrate precipitation of phosphate, for example, I made up a solution of equimolar ( 1 millimole per liter) concentrations of potassium dihydrogen phosphate and sodium monohydrogen phosphate. This "buffer" has pH about 7.18. Adding the neutral salt calcium chloride in the amount of 2 mM/L caused a drop in the pH of about 0.16 pH units. Even though no precipitate is visible, it is the precipitation which is responsible for the pH drop. What does this tell us about using hard tap water to mix phosphate bufferes for calibration of pH meters? The best demonstration of precipitation of phosphate comes when we add hard water to malt. The pH drop seen there is from this mechanism we've been discussing. Note that I have been purposely a little vague about exactly what it is that precipitates. Hydroxyapatite is probably what precipitates in the main but some authors suggestthat dibasic calcium phosphate (CaHPO4) may also precipitate. To further complicate the picture interconversion between hysdroxyapatite and calcium carbonate can occur depending on pH and total phosphate present. Furthermore, the solubility product of hydroxyappatite is uncertain to about 10 orders of magnitude. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 16:24:23 -0500 From: "Rob" <brewmasters at texasbrew.com> Subject: O2 caps. I keep reading on how do you clean the special O2 caps. I'm wondering if anyone has asked a micro or a major on how they clean theirs. I have asked and this 1 (one) micro said that they didn't. They dump them right out of the freshly opened box and cap them without cleaning any of them. That was almost 2 years ago and I haven't cleaned any of my caps since. I haven't had any problems since. I'm knocking on wood as I'm typing. I won't say what micro it was but it is one of the largest in the Midwest area. They have constantly had good beer. So I think that as long as you don't allow them to get dirty you should be ok. I am sure now the purists will really object to this but ask yourselves have you tried it? Rob Brew Masters 426 Butternut Abilene, TX 79602 1-915-677-1233 1-888-284-2039 savebig at texasbrew.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 18:23:16 +0000 From: Joy Hansen <happyhansen at scronline.com> Subject: Brew Bottle Baking Hi All, Got a couple of questions about oven sterilization of brew bottles that the collective might be able to provide an answer for. Ever wonder why microbiologists invented an autoclave? Ever wonder what the difference is between "dry heat" and "wet heat" sterilization? Ever wonder why many home brewers use a pressure cooker for sterilization? Joy"T"Brew Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 23:51:57 -0400 From: PDWaltman <awapuhoq at mindspring.com> Subject: Honey flavor in beer Trevor asked about Honey Flavor in Beer: >I have recently brewed a mead and a Honey Cinnimon Wheat beer thinking that >the flavour of the honey would remain. I appreciate the dryness that the >honey adds ( it compliments the cinnimon flavour beautifully ) but i would >like to leave the honey flavour. A honey flavor is certainly easy in mead, so I'm assuming he was asking about the flavor in beer. My experience with beer is that you need an absence of strong flavors in the beer to catch the flavors of clover honey in beer. I've gotten honey flavor with clover or orange blossum honey with honey added to a secondary in ales. The downside is that not all the honey disolves so expect a layer on the bottom of the carboy or bucket that won't get used. A stronger honey that clover or orange blossom will come through better in a beer. A strong honey that would require a "longer" age-time when made into mead (such as buckwheat) might make an excellent addition to some beers with stronger flavors. As for priming, I've not done honey as a primer. If you boiled the honey to sanitize before adding, you might lose some of the flavors and aromas. Dennis Waltman Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 01:20:38 EDT From: Biergiek at aol.com Subject: 240V Power Controller Junior has asked me to help him with his preschool science project. He wants to build an infinite power control for our 240V electric heating element clad brew kettle, similar to a Bruheat Boiler. We want to be able to have infinite power settings to control the vigor of the boil. I ran across an SSR that is an analog power controller that produces a variable output from 0% to 100% for 240V up to 15A. The relay is digikey part number CC1165-ND, enter this part number at the url below to check it out: http://www.digikey.com/DigiKey.DKS The relay controls the power output with a 3V to 10V DC input. How can I make this thing work for what I want it to do? What type of part can I use to vary the DC input voltage? How are the 2-120V lines wired to the relay? Or, is there an easier/better way to control the 240V feeding the electric heating element? I have tried using an electric stove top burner controller, but the on/off cycles produced by the controller are spaced too far apart to produce a continuous and even power level and boil. Right now I am using a diode to block half the voltage, which generates half the power to the boil. This gives me a high boil without the diode, and a low boil with the diode. The high setting produces a too vigorous boil, and the low setting barely creates a boil... I, uh, we would like in-between power settings. Any suggestions will be appreciated unless they are from desk hammer jacks Eric Fouch or Jason Gorman (they know I don't need a smiley). Kyle brewing in Bakersfield, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 02:08:30 -0700 From: Ted McIrvine <McIrvine at ix.netcom.com> Subject: Dead Yeast vs. Living Yeast (Nutrient/autolysis) > Yeast hulls are DEAD YEAST; when I make mead I used to boil some old yeast cake and it serves as yeast nutrient. (I don't anymore, I simply pitch enough yeast grown using malt extract.) Yeast autolysis occurs when living yeast runs out of maltose and other fermentable sugars and basically becomes a cannibal that eats other yeast. So dead yeast can be a nutrient, and living yeast that doesn't have sugar to grow can be a menace. Alas, once you get the rubbery smell, it is hard to eliminate in my experience. Cheers Ted > From: Jason.Gorman at steelcase.com > Subject: Yeast Autolysis > > A while back I posted this question on yeast autolysis and I received no > responses. > I did some searching in the archives, but could not find the information I was > looking for. From what I have read, autolysis is basically the spilling of > the yeast guts into the beer. Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't this > basically yeast nutrient? If you transfer to a secondary and add some DME, > will you get renewed fermentation and rid yourself of the rubbery autolysis > taste and smell? > > Jason Gorman > River Dog Brewery Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 16:47:51 +1000 From: "Chris Pittock"<Chris.Pittock at nre.vic.gov.au> Subject: Scorched wort crud removal and prevention...? Hi All, My brewing boiler is an old copper hot-water heater which was corroded through the bottom, which has been turned over and had the corroded part cut away. With this boiler now set up as shown in the cheesy ASCII diagram (below), I get a reasonable boil from the gas burner, but after each additional batch the drain gets slower and slower... I've tried clearing out the drain pipe, and get crunchy flakes of burnt wort sugars out of it... Fortunately no noticable acrid burnt tastes in the brews as yet! Two questions: 1. What's good for getting gunge like this out of hard to get at spots? Liquid X + heat?? 2. Any wisdom on a good shielding method for the drain pipe? | BOILER | | | | | | | \ DRAIN / \________ _________/ U __ GUNGE ->>U========O= TAP PIPE OOO GAS OoooO BURNER OoooO=======\ <-- *VERY* CHEESY FLEXED GAS HOSE DIAGRAM OOO \| _U_ | | GAS | | BOTTLE |___| LIGHT BEERS IN OZ In Australia at the moment we've had a sudden influx of "premium" light beers onto the market (which is good!). These lights actually taste like beer!!! Note to US brewers: "light" refers to alcohol content *not* calories.... The mega-swill mob have somehow got it together on this - even so far as to release their different versions within the same week! TIA, Chris Pittock (430 Km West of Coopers Brewery). Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:21:48 +0200 From: mark <shrike.cars at accesinternet.com> Subject: Re: BrewPubs in France John, Thanks for the tip... I'll see where that is and possibly pass by there... Thanks! Mark Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:50:23 +0200 From: "Dr. Pivo" <irv at wireworks.se> Subject: re: Eating Gyprock Walls Phil and Jill wrote. (that must of been one confusing wedding ceremony: "We've come to unite Phil and Jill, er, Jill and Phil, Oh crap, give me a pill" > Dr Pivo's suggestion to try a bit of calcium sulphate in the > brew took my fancy. Very carefully I cut out a section of the kitchen wall, > scraped off the paint and ground the remaining chunk straight into my latest > dark wheat beer. The result was awful!! Comments: 1: Should have left the paint on... it adds to the "body" and "mouthfeel". 2: > The result was awful!! <snip> Awful? Awful? I just knew someone was going to get that taste description wrong. 3:> ground the remaining chunk straight into my latest > > dark wheat beer Just where do you get "dark wheat"? 4: Your problem was obviously that you chose a portion of the kitchen wall. The fats (or "lipids") that have soaked into the gyprock over time, have complexed with the sulfates there. Since we know that fatty acids of less than 12 carbons in length have the opposite effect of those greater than twelve with respect to ester formation, the more volatile fats have most certainly caused a "side chain shift" with your hop residues, enhancing the astringency. Had you chosen your bathroom wall instead, you would have found that the uric acid crystal residues there would have had quite the opposite effect. I'd suggest redoing the experiment, but using the bathroom wall instead (preferably with wall paper intact, see comments above regarding "body"). Take a bigger chunk next time, and if your wife objects? I'm sure there are still plenty of lasses out their with names that rhyme with "Phil", and it's about time she found that out. > It has been raining here in Sydney Say, you wouldn't mind if I "borrowed" your house for a few weeks in September of, say, next year? I won't complin about the holes in the kitchen and bathroom walls, honest. Dr. Pivo Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 07:32:44 -0400 (EDT) From: pbabcock <pbabcock at mail.oeonline.com> Subject: Re: Cleaning O2 caps Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... "Rob" shares: > and this 1 (one) micro said that they didn't. They dump them right out of > the freshly opened box and cap them without cleaning any of them. That was > almost 2 years ago and I haven't cleaned any of my caps since. I haven't <...> > constantly had good beer. So I think that as long as you don't allow them to > get dirty you should be ok. I am sure now the purists will really object to > this but ask yourselves have you tried it? Call me a purist, but the shop I buy my caps from has them in an open box from which I use a metal scoop to transfer them to my waiting bag. Being open as such, I cannot be certian that they would be in the same state as those taken from a freshly open box (possibly the key to their/your success with the no-clean method). Any brewer worthy of their salt will tell you that you don't want to expose wort or beer to grain dust, right? All those lacto-buggies (among others) like to hitchhike on the husk and end up on the dust, we're told. Well, I've never seen much care taken in this particular shop (or any other, for that matter) to prevent said dust from mingling with the nearby caps. Sooooo, those of us who don't buy caps by the boxload and use them all up at once need to know how to clean them. My solution? I don't use O2 absorbing caps. Plain ol' caps have worked fine for this brewer See ya! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at oeonline.com Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org HBD Web Site http://hbd.org The Home Brew Page http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/brew.html "Just a cyber-shadow of his former brewing self..." Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 07:40:07 -0400 From: sedam at bellsouth.net Subject: diacetyl Alan: I've used analytical-grade diacetyl in a food preparation (was trying to make a new microwave popcorn formulation) and I wouldn't recommend your experiment. (1) metering this out in your beer would be tough, and (2) IF you wanted to do this, you'd need a serious hood (class 2?). The smell of, or should I say effect of smelling, pure diacetyl is sheer and utter revulsion. I opened the bottle outside of the hood and within 10 seconds was ready to revisit my breakfast. Better yet, within 5 minutes the very last lab in the hall (some 350 meters away) felt exactly the same way. I wasn't a very popular person. By the way, diacetyl is as simple a name as it gets. Aldrich or Sigma sells it. Cheers! Marc Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 08:48:08 -0400 From: David Rinker <David_Rinker at med.unc.edu> Subject: Guinness heads and nitrogen Data point: In my small kegging set up--beer line is about 3 feet--I can easily and regularly get a "Guinness pour" with only a picnic tap. I'm not exaggerating (and I have witnesses): the head is finely-bubbled, creamy, long-lasting and leaves a nice white coating of bubbles all along the sides of the emptied glass. Just keep the carbonation level of the beer low, but push it under a higher pressure through a barely-opened picnic tap (i.e. store the kegged beer at around one atmosphere but crank up the CO2 when dispensing). This will not work if you mistakenly leave the keg under the higher dispensing pressure long enough to raises the dissolved-CO2 levels in the beer.. Irrational leap of faith...: I agree with Al --the N2's main role is in pushing the beer down the lines while preventing the beer itself from becoming over-carbonated in the keg. The bubbles themselves are mostley CO2 (but with trace ammounts of nitrogen in proportion to the N2's limited soulibility). This is a logical solution where long beer lines are involved and the keg is kept under dispensing pressure constantly. David Durham, NC Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 08:49:47 -0400 From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com> Subject: nitrogen solubility In #3018 AK asks,"But how much nitrogen actually dissolves in the beer? Very little. I don't have any books (even in those 900 boxes) that give the relative solubilities of CO2 and N2... could someone post them?" >From "Stout" by Lewis he states the volume of CO2 in a Guinness is 1.8 volumes and nitrogen is 0.018. With the N/CO2 ratio of 3/1 I would say the relative solubilities are 1:300. With a UK pint being approx. 591.25 mL; that would put about 5.91 mL of nitrogen in the beer. With a typical head-stand of about 10%, even if _all_ the nitrogen broke out (it doesn't) and became a factor in the head the head would be only 10% nitrogen. The same low solubility that makes it difficult to get the nitrogen into the beer makes it equally hard for the nitrogen to evolve back out. This is easily likened to the "bends" when deep-sea diving. When depressurizing while surfacing the nitrogen doesn't outgas at the same rate as CO2; only after great depressurization does the N break out creating tiny bubbles in the bloodstream, and the painfull/deadly bends. Now after typing all this, the mechanism of the foam stand may have come to light! If the N content of the foam is < approx. 10%, the action would be that atmospheric N would be_very_slowly_ diffusing _into_the bubbles, helping maintain the foam; compared to a 100% CO2 bubble that would quickly (relatively speaking) diffuse its' gas out to the atmosphere thus falling foam-stand. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 14:48:58 +200 From: "Braam Greyling" <braam.greyling at azona.com> Subject: CP bottle giller Hi all, What is a good quality , easy to use, counter pressure filler to buy? Where can I get one for a good price ? Regards Braam Greyling Snr. Design Engineer Azona(Pty)Ltd tel +27 12 6641910 fax +27 12 6641393 Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 08:57:01 -0400 From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com> Subject: Re: Idophor [sic] in high bicarbonate water I'm not a chemist, nor do I play one on TV. But I know the makeup of my water and it's very soft (water softener) which I had analyzed. This is use and adjust to about any water chemistry I need to brew (with the help of the occasional RO gallon or two). Just some sodium and cloride is about all that's present -- except for some dissolved iron. That's the reason my wife had me get the softener and filters is the red rust stains in the laundry. Most of this is taken out but a small amount make it through. I don't know if this is Fe++ or Fe+++ but I do know that chlorine, and yes folks, iodophor, does cause a brick red sediment over time in my iodophor storage carboy. It seems to be harmless and gets discarded occasionally; I just don't siphon it out when I'm siphoning iodophor into something that needs to sanitized. My suspicion is that this is a form of iron that's being parcipitated out, not a bicarbonate or magnesium or whatever else. YVMV. Dave Houseman Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 09:57:55 -0400 From: "Roat, Todd (ROATTW)" <ROATTW at UCMAIL.UC.EDU> Subject: RE: All-grain brewing ("Craig Wolfangel") http://www.listermann.com/mash.html When I converted to all-grain I was feeling a bit overwhelmed. I am of the "keep it simple" with no interest in complexity of systems. This description of how easy all-grain can be brought things into simple perspective for me and was a great starting point. Hope it helps! Todd Cincinnati, Ohio Todd W. Roat Clinical Trials Coordinator EMCREG Coordinator Department of Emergency Medicine 231 Bethesda Avenue Cincinnati, Ohio 45267-0769 (P)513-558-5216 (F)513-558-5791 emcreg at uc.edu todd.roat at uc.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 10:02:00 -0400 From: Jason.Gorman at steelcase.com Subject: bottles Geek mode on and.............Begin. The reason the bottles are breaking in the oven is because of the cooling gradient along the cross-section of the bottle. When you cool the bottle too fast the outsides cool faster than the insides ( the glass not the empty air space of the bottle). The faster cooling outer area contracts at a faster rate than the interior. This creates a internal tensile stress. Glass does not handle tensile stress very well. If the contraction happens too fast, the bottle can't hold up and it breaks. The main reason is regular glass has a relatively high thermal expansion coefficient , which means it expands and contract a lot during heating. In contrast, Pyrex has a relatively low TEC. That is why you can heat and cool it rapidly without breaking it. Glass is also very notch sensitive, so any chips or scratches will enhance the problem. As far as an explanation for some of the brewers methods. The water in the bottles may create a heat sink slowing the cooling rate. Stacking the bottles like cord wood creates more mass and the bottles may cool slower, but you take the risk "if one goes they all go". I also have other lawn chairs. Jason Gorman- Self proclaimed genious and part time proctologist. River Dog Brewery Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 09:56:50 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: A taste of Gypsum Joy Hansen <happyhansen at scronline.com> brewed with plaster of Paris and asked: Any thoughts on the purity and/or trace elements I've >added to my brew? > >Is this a ruinous brew? :) I'll confess my dirty little secret - I brewed with plaster of Paris my first years 20+ years ago - dozens of brews, until common sense convinced me that a few cents wasn't worth potentially risking my health. I also wondered about trace heavy metals, etc. It didn't affect the beers, or me, either. I'm OK, OK, OK, OK, OK....... Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 10:06:54 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu> Subject: Re: kegging question >"Dann Holmes" <dholmes3 at virtu.sar.usf.edu> asks: >I was wondering if it was possible to keg and force carbonate less liquid >than the keg is able to hold.. i want to keg and force carbonate 3 gallons >of cider, and i only have access to a 5 gallon keg.. can i do that, or will >it hurt the keg, or not carbonate, or something? No problem, just make sure to purge the tank of air. The best way to do this is to fill a sanitized keg with clean water and force it out with CO2. Then fill the keg from another keg by pushing the cider out with CO2, running the beer into the "out" fitting so it enters the bottom of the keg and doesn't splash and foam. Then pressurize and shake. Jeff -=-=-=-=- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. Return to table of contents
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