HOMEBREW Digest #3021 Tue 04 May 1999

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  RE: : 240V Power Controller (LaBorde, Ronald)
  CO2 leak? ("Anthony & Julie Brown")
  Beer Alcohol Calculator Spreadsheet (Stephen Klump)
  Cider question ("John Watts")
  Ale & Beer in Germanic ("Charles T. Major")
  Mead Questions (Thomas S Barnett)
  Free rhizomes in Boston area ("Lerner, Neal")
  More On: Diacetyl; Red Stuff (AJ)
  Efficiency ("Mark Vernon")
  Cherries ("Alexander S. MacGillivray RN")
  Schaarbeek Cherries ("Grant W. Knechtel")
  We're not all smart... (larson.jt)
  Aerating Water/ Diacetyl (AJ)
  bottling my kegged barleywine (Nathan Kanous)
  Nitrogen Solubility (David Lamotte)
  Cleaner for kegs ("Charles T. Major")
  SureScreen ("Jeff Beinhaur")
  tomahawk hops (Brewinales)
  lawnmowing (kathy/jim)
  Frothy Heads/Dark Wheat (Joel Plutchak)
  Plaster of Paris (Dan Listermann)
  re O2 caps ("Rob")
  re: draught question ("Curt Abert")
  foam discussion ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  Mash thickness with recirculation (Nathan Kanous)
  AC Q's (John Varady)
  Calcium Phosphate precipitation (Matt Brooks)
  Re: "Dr. Pivo" ("Larry Maxwell")
  MI hops-grower needed (Vachom)
  CaPO4 Precipitate (Matt Brooks)
  dispensing pressure ("Anthony Brown")

Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! 2000 MCAB Qualifiers: Spirit of Free Beer! Competition 5/22/99 (http://burp.org/SoFB99); Oregon Homebrew Festival 5/22/99 (http://www.mtsw.com/hotv/fest.html); Buzz-Off! Competition 6/26/99 (http://www.voicenet.com/~rpmattie/buzzoff) Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!! To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org. **SUBSCRIBE AND UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS MUST BE SENT FROM THE E-MAIL ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!** IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, the autoresponder and the SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE commands will fail! Contact brewery at hbd.org for information regarding the "Cat's Meow" Back issues are available via: HTML from... http://hbd.org Anonymous ftp from... ftp://hbd.org/pub/hbd/digests ftp://ftp.stanford.edu/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer AFS users can find it under... /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer COPYRIGHT for the Digest as a collection is currently held by hbd.org (Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen). Digests in their entirity CANNOT be reprinted/reproduced without this entire header section unless EXPRESS written permission has been obtained from hbd.org. Digests CANNOT be reprinted or reproduced in any format for redistribution unless said redistribution is at absolutely NO COST to the consumer. COPYRIGHT for individual posts within each Digest is held by the author. Articles cannot be extracted from the Digest and reprinted/reproduced without the EXPRESS written permission of the author. The author and HBD must be attributed as author and source in any such reprint/reproduction. (Note: QUOTING of items originally appearing in the Digest in a subsequent Digest is exempt from the above. Home brew clubs NOT associated with organizations having a commercial interest in beer or brewing may republish articles in their newsletters and/or websites provided that the author and HBD are attributed. ASKING first is still a great courtesy...) JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 23:01:08 -0500 From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald) Subject: RE: : 240V Power Controller >>>> Junior has asked me to help him with his preschool science project. He wants to build an infinite power control for our 240V electric heating element clad brew kettle, similar to a Bruheat Boiler. <<<< Oohhweee, preschool and 240V already! >>>> We want to be able to have infinite power settings to control the vigor of the boil. I ran across an SSR that is an analog power controller that produces a variable output from 0% to 100% for 240V up to 15A....... ....The relay controls the power output with a 3V to 10V DC input. How can I make this thing work for what I want it to do? What type of part can I use to vary the DC input voltage? How are the 2-120V lines wired to the relay? <<<< I am not familiar with the relay you mention above, however, what follows is for the more common solid state relays: The relay is basically an on/off device. You will find that there is no difference in the operation of the relay with 3V or 10V input. This is merely the range of control input needed to turn the relay on. Since the relay is a solid state device, you may operate it at a rapid rate to switch the power on/off. >>>> Or, is there an easier/better way to control the 240V feeding the electric heating element? I have tried using an electric stove top burner controller, but the on/off cycles produced by the controller are spaced too far apart to produce a continuous and even power level and boil. <<<< Correct, and the temperature variations will put much stress on the element. What you need is to switch on/off at a rapid rate, I use about 1/2 second as a good rule of thumb. This gives very smooth control and because of the mass of the element, can be thought of as continuous analog control much as a light bulb is being powered on/off each 1/60 of a second but appears to be on continuously. Actually it is, the filament cannot cool off in the 1/60 second time, so the bulb is lighted all the time even though the power is removed 60 times each second. You can use a 555 IC timer chip in a circuit to vary the on/off from 0 to 100% with a 1/2 second cycle time. It is a simple circuit that I have used in several controllers. You will find the circuit in "THE 555 TIMER APPLICATIONS SOURCEBOOK" by Howard M. Berlin published by Howard W. Sams & Co., Inc. page 32. The output of the 555 drives the relay, the relay is wired up just like a simple light switch, in series with the hot (black) wire to the load. The solid state relay provides isolation between the control and output terminals, so the low voltage control circuit is completely protected from the AC powerline. Ron Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 00:43:35 CSTCDT From: "Anthony & Julie Brown" <brown32 at web1.ecol.net> Subject: CO2 leak? I am working with my first few batches of kegged beer and am now trying to trouble shoot a possible leak in my system. I am hoping someone here will be able to help me out. I have my keg pressure set to 17lbs for pressurizing and dispensing. Every morning I turn on the gas for a few seconds to "top off" the pressure in my kegs and turn it off again in case of any possible line leaks. My question is, when I go to turn on the gas at the tank, the co2 tank pressure reads zero and the keg pressure is about 2-3 lbs less than the 17lbs I pressurize at. Seeing as my keg still within the first week of being filled, could my beer still be absorbing that small amount of co2 every day or would it seem to suggest a small leak somewhere I can not find? At this time I can't find a leak, even after spraying soapy water all over the keg fittings and co2 tank/regulator fittings. Is the drop in the co2 tank pressure when turned off normal? Hopefully someone has some experience with this.... PS. I do hear my Co2 tank adding some pressure to my keg in the morning when I gas it up so I know I have lost some minimal pressure somewhere. Thanks ahead of time... Tony B. Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 08:40:24 -0400 From: Stephen Klump <StephenKlump at compuserve.com> Subject: Beer Alcohol Calculator Spreadsheet Hello All, A while back there was a discussion about the various equations for calculating alcohol content in beer. This post is to inform you about an excel file which contains equations/macros to convert spgr to %alcohol. The spreadsheet was developed by Mr. Jim Hackbarth at the time with Schlitz, currently with Stroh. He has given permission for these (unpublished) equations to be used by the homebrewing community. The equation of interest involves an eighth order linear regression to fit brewing gravities with alcohol contents based on the (old and dusty) brewing tables used in the industry. He showed me the book of tables which have increments in degree plato to 4 or 5 decimal places. The file can be downloaded from the Ann Arbor Brewers Guild web site (Http://hbd.org/aabg) Mr. Pat Babcock was kind enough to post it there - any questions about downloading please ask him. Here's how it works: You need your beer's starting and finishing specific gravities. The spreadsheet will ask you to enter you starting gravity and %RDF (%real Degree of Fermentation). The second number is to be manipulated till the finishing gravity (which is automatically calculated) equals your finishing gravity. The equation will give you alcohol %w/w, %v/w, and calories for a 12 oz bottle of beer. And you also have calculated the %RDF - which is a measure of real attenuation (as opposed to apparent attenuation). There is also a degree plato to specific gravity calculator. Anyway, i dont pretend to understand the math, nor do I claim these as my own. I apologize that there is a macro in the spreadsheet to be downloaded, but my limited computer/excel knowledge does no allow me to convert the macro into an equation for the cells. The members of Ann Arbor Brewers Guild have tried it as a beta test and no problems have surfaced that I know of. Cheers! Stephen Klump, Ph.D. Senior Research Scientist The (Former) Stroh Brewery Company Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 10:36:43 -0700 From: "John Watts" <watts at radiks.net> Subject: Cider question As my wife is at long last finishing up her degree program, and she has been very supportive of my hobby, I thought that a special brew would be in order. She has recently become quite enamoured with Woodchuck Amber cider. Anyone have a reasonably simple clone of this? Or of any Woodchuck's products? TIA John Watts watts at radiks.net Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 11:42:53 -0500 (Central Daylight Time) From: "Charles T. Major" <ctmajor at samford.edu> Subject: Ale & Beer in Germanic The reference is H. E. Kylstra. "Ale and Beer in Germanic" in _Iceland and the Medieval World: Studies in Honor of Ian Maxwell._ Gabriel Turville-Petre and John Stanley Martin, eds. (Victoria, Australia: Wilke & Co., Ltd., 1974). Tidmarsh Major Birmingham, Alabama Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 13:12:30 -0500 (CDT) From: Thomas S Barnett <barnets at mail.auburn.edu> Subject: Mead Questions Hello all, My girlfriend's not much of a beer drinker. As a result, i'm hoping a honey mead, (perhaps with some fruit additions), will be something we can both appreciate. Having never made a mead, i thought i might get some advice from those more experienced. First of all, i found some locally produced 'Wildflower and Red Clover Honey' which i was hoping to use. Is this a suitable variety, or should i use the lighter varieties? Secondly, how should fruit additions be prepared, how much should be used, and when should they be added? And finally, what carbonation levels are appropriate? Thanks. Tom Barnett. Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 17:47:15 -0400 From: "Lerner, Neal" <NLerner at mcp.edu> Subject: Free rhizomes in Boston area Hi, Boston-area future hop growers. I have about a dozen each cascade, willamette, saaz, and mt. hood rhizomes that I dug up today and will gladly give away to anyone interested and willing to drop by and pick them up. Please respond to nlerner at mcp.edu. Thanks! Neal Lerner Brookline, MA Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 23:21:55 +0000 From: AJ <ajdel at mindspring.com> Subject: More On: Diacetyl; Red Stuff I have a couple of new pieces of data to report concerning dicetyl. 1. In further fiddling around with diacetyl I discover much to my surprise (I always thought I was one of those insensitive individuals) that I can taste and smell the stuff quite distinctly at 0.025 mg/L in DI water. This was checked double blind. I mixed DI water with diacetyl in one of two beakers and filled the other with DI just DI water. My assistant (OK, my wife) filled two glasses from the beakers. She didn't know which beaker had the diacetly but was aked to keep track of which beaker each glass came from. I didn't know which beaker was filled from which glass. I was able quickly, easily and confidently to determine which sample had the diacetyl. Thus I'm detecting it easily at a quarter to a half of the nominally reported detection threshold (0.05 to 0.1 mg/L). The assistant cannot detect it by smell or taste at 0.025 mg/L). I don't believe that I would be able to detect it at this level in beer where other flavors/aromas would mask it. 2. Diacetyl isn't reduced by Campden tablets, at least in a water solution. I had wondered earlier if this might work and it might in the presence of the proper enzyme (diol dehydrogenase?). It doesn't seem to be reduced by ascorbic acid either. 3. Dave Miller in his "Continental Pilsner" (Brewers Publications, Boulder) cites 0.1 mg/L as the taste threshold for diacetyl and lists a level of 0.15 mg/L for Pilsner Urquel which level he calls "well over the taste threshold" and then goes on to say that this borders on the objectionable range but is not objectionable in this case because of the synergism with other components of the beer flavor. I have measured Pilsner Urquel and found its diacetyl level (one sample, bottle, export) to be 0.20 mg/L i.e. reasonably close to what Miller reports. While I can definitely taste this level in DI water, I cannot detect the presence of diaceytyl in Pilsener Urquel as diacetyl because, as Miller says, it blends to enhance the caramel, sweetness and nuttiness. My own last lager was brewed with Wyeast Czech Pils, pitched at 43, fermented at 47 and not given a diacetyl rest (intentionally). It measured 0.27 mg/L and I can taste and smell the diacetyl in it as diacetyl. I don't consider it objectionable at this level and now that I know what it is I recognize that I've had it before with this yeast strain. In otherwords, I'm now much better educated as to what diacetyl tastes like and smells like both in beer and by itself. 4. Based on measurement, the Miller book, experiments with diacetyl in water and my last Pils I find it hard to believe that PU's diacetyl level is higher than about 0.2 mg/L nor that other Bohemian Pilsners would go much higher than say 0.3 becuse it gets pretty unpleasant to many at those higher levels. I haven't tested any other Bohemian Pils except Eger Urbier (0.11 mg/L). Cheb, where this is brewed, is a border town (with Germany) so perhaps they tone the diacetyl down somewhat there. Both the PU and the Eger samples were, of course, imported into the US and there is the possibility that diacetyl is toned down for the US market. But Bohemian Pils spiked to the 0.6 level is pretty one dimensional and that dimension is diacetyl. At this level it is very objectionable to some drinkers (e.g. my assistant). 5. While I don't consider the smell of neat diacetyl all that pleasant my reaction to it isn't nearly as strong as Marc Sedam's. It never got near cookie-tossing level. I note, however, that the bottle is marked "stench". * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * On to the red stuff that precipitates when iodophor is added to hard water. 1. The precipitate doesn't form unless the water is pretty hard and the stregth of the iodophor is pretty high. 2. If the iodine is reduced to I- by metabite or sodium sulfite the precipitate disappears. 3. If the iodine is reduced to I- before the calcium is added the precipitate does not form. 4. I did a quick test for phosphate on an iodophor solution and did not detect any. Doesn't mean it isn't there. Just that I didn't find it in the quick test I did. Based on these observations I withdraw the suggestion that the red precipitate is calcium phosphate, apatite or anything similar. - -- A. J. deLange Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore. Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 19:08:54 -0500 From: "Mark Vernon" <mkv at netins.net> Subject: Efficiency Help, ... How do I increase my effidiency. My last few all-grain batches have been around 60%. I crush my own grain with and Automatic Mill, run the grain through twice on the 3rd and 2nd setting (not sure of the gap). Single Infusion mash temp on last batch was 155deg, for 60 min 1.33 quarts per pound of grain. Any ideas? Mark Vernon MCSE+I, MCT mkv at netins.net www.pleasantstreet.com Beer is proof that god loves mankind... Ben Franklin Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 17:34:21 -0800 From: "Alexander S. MacGillivray RN" <alex_macgillivray at admin.state.ak.us> Subject: Cherries Does anyone know of a mail order place where I can find some choke cherries? Also, if anyone has a 10 gallon Gott cooler they want to get rid of and a 100,000 btu burner as well please let me know. Up here in Alaska it's hard to find things like that. Thanks in advance guys, Alex "Remember Alex states with ale" Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 21:08:12 -0700 From: "Grant W. Knechtel" <GWK at hartcrowser.com> Subject: Schaarbeek Cherries I posted a question a few weeks ago as to the botanical name for the Schaarbeek cherries essential to making Kriek Lambic, as I was hoping to track down some planting stock. I had 5 private replies but no one knew the proper name, so I repeat the question in case there's a knowledgable person out there now who wasn't before. Some had tried some years ago on the same quest and been unsuccessful. Thanks for the interest from those who replied! Prost -Grant Neue Des Moines Hausbrauerei Des Moines, Washington USA Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 07:47:23 -0400 From: larson.jt at pg.com Subject: We're not all smart... Just a quick hint for any other cerebrally-challenged brewers out there: DO NOT under any circumstances try to improve the heating capability of a 170,000 btu propane burner by putting up wind shields on all four sides (Especially on the outside of the gas line). Once the gas line melts, the brewing day is kinda ruined. I feel stupid but lucky. Will my freshly crushed grain remain fresh for at least a week? Todd larson.jt at pg.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 12:09:35 +0000 From: AJ <ajdel at mindspring.com> Subject: Aerating Water/ Diacetyl Doug Brown asks about the value of aerating water as a treatement. It certainly has its uses. It is effective in eliminating iron as it converts clearwater iron (FeII) to rust (FeIII) which can then be removed by filtration through a back washable sand bed. It does the same to manganese. Volatiles, sulfides mostly, are swept out as is chlorine but not chloramine. Chloramine can be removed by activated carbon granules (GAC) and it is now common to package those with KDF, an allow which will reduce heavy metal ions (copper, lead, mercury, chromium) causing them to plate onto the alloy. Oxidation, GAC and KDF will not remove calcium, magnesium, sodium, potassium or bicarbonate. Aeration will, however, expell carbon dioxide gas thus raising the pH of the water without the need for a neutralizer (which increases the alkalinity). * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Laurel writes that 2,3- butane dione and 2,3 - pentane dione are produced in approximately equal quantities in a normal beer. Kunze shows some example data showing diacetyl levels peaking at about 0.07 mg/L and pentanedione at about 0.02 - 0.03. Is this inconsistent with other data/experience? By the way, Kunze has a pretty nice discussion of this subject. For example, the precursor to 2,3 - pentane dione is revealed: it is 2-Acetohydroxybutyric acid. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Jeremy Bergsman reports that he works with a 1% V/V diacetyl solution in EtOH. I've been using a 1% V/V solution in water. What's the advantage to using EtOH? By the way, did anyone catch my slip on the BP of ethanol. It (at 77) is not that close to diacetyl's (88). - -- A. J. deLange Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 08:17:22 -0500 From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu> Subject: bottling my kegged barleywine Hi Everybody. I just got done moving. Since I wasn't ready to bottle my barleywine, I kegged it for the move. It's under about 10 PSI of CO2. Now, I'd like to be able to bottle it. I don't want to CP fill the bottles. I don't have a CP filler and I'd like to condition this beast on the yeast. I could vent the pressure and tap the keg and run the barleywine into a carboy and leave it for a week or two and then bottle as planned. I suspect that within that time frame, most of the "excess" CO2 (above atmospheric) should escape and then I could bottle as usual. Anybody else had the pleasure of doing such a thing? Any tips would be appreciated. Just to summarize and make sure I said it right, the barleywine is kegged under 10PSI and I want to bottle condition it and I don't have, nor want to use a CP bottle filler. Any info on how to get it from keg to bottle with added yeast and primings would be appreciated. nathan in madison, wi Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 23:37:29 +1000 From: David Lamotte <lamotted at ozemail.com.au> Subject: Nitrogen Solubility In HBD 3020 there were a few guesses as to the relative solubility of N2 and CO2 with QDA's ranging from 10 to 300 times. To help prolong the this gas debate a little longer, I have looked up my SI Chemical Data book (2nd Edition 1971). I know that it is old but is is a long time since I went to school. Solubility is quoted in grams of gas per kg water as follows :- At 0 deg C N2 0.0294 C02 3.35 which is 114 times At 20 deg C N2 0.0190 C02 1.69 which is 89 times Now back to the ASCII art for someone to explain how this translates into pressures measured on our guages ... Keep on smiling David Lamotte Brewing down under in Newcastle, NSW, Australia Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 08:40:06 -0500 (Central Daylight Time) From: "Charles T. Major" <ctmajor at samford.edu> Subject: Cleaner for kegs I use Electrasol, which is a a brand of dishwasher detergent (whichever brand you choose, unscented is always a good idea). At 1 cup/5 gallons it works great for removing beer gunk, both from the inside of kegs and glass carboys. Mixed with hot water, the icky kraeusen ring on the inside of the carboy dissolves and drops to the bottom with 30 mins with no scrubbing. I typically wipe out the inside of my kegs with a sponge and run a brush through the dip tube, just because I can. All in all, dishwashing detergent seems like a powerful yet relatively mild brewery cleaner. I believe that Joe Rolfe has also recommended it in this forum in digests past. Tidmarsh Major Birmingham, Alabama Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 09:52:42 -0400 From: "Jeff Beinhaur" <beinhaur at email.msn.com> Subject: SureScreen OK I give up. I recently upgraded my system to brew ten gallon batches. I'm now 6 sessions into this setup and have gotten beyond my stuck sparge problems and leaky valves. Other than installing pumps to move the brew around (cause that 10 gal. batch gets heavy to move around for a gravity system) I'm down to one problem. Having brewed this past weekend, every thing worked like a charm. A good recirc, steady sparge, good conversion, etc., etc. I hoisted my 18 gallon brew pot full of 12 gallons of wonderful aroma. Started my boil, added my hops (whole leaf and quite heavily as this is to be an APA), no boil over but a good rolling boil. Used my wort chiller for the first time and within 15 to 20 minutes I as was at 80 degrees. Again carefully hoisted the pot to high enough point to fill the carboys. Confidently place the fill tube from the pot into the carboy opened the valve and a strong flow began. Problem is that lasted about 5 seconds and then nothing. With all of the hops and I assume break material the SureScreen was clogged. In the past I've tried a stainless steel scrubby around the screen and this helps but it still gets clogged. I've tried whirlpooling but maybe I don't know how to do this either. My last resort is the old "hairy arm" technique to keep the screen from clogging. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated as I'm getting tired of naming my brews the "Hairy Arm Pale Ale". Actually, I am naming this last brew the Red Bud Pale Ale, since my red bud (tree not beer), was dropping its flower pedals and I'm sure a few found there way to the kettle. Hmmm, wonder what flavors that will instill. TIA. Jeff Beinhaur, Camp Hill, PA Home of the Yellow Breeches Brewery Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 09:50:34 EDT From: Brewinales at aol.com Subject: tomahawk hops i was talking with a guy on the brew-rat chat who was mentioning his love of tomahawk hops, claimed they were 17+%aa, with wonderfull spicy aroma, didn't know much about ancestry ect. anybody ever heard of them? Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 09:55:02 -0400 From: kathy/jim <kbooth at scnc.waverly.k12.mi.us> Subject: lawnmowing As if this thread hadn't outrun its.........anyway. I've always presented the beer world I know to questioners, as a USA world of a few brands of "quench your thirst beers" and alot of low volume brands of "sippin" beers. Those Miller beer ads with the celebrating sports players (complete with slender, admiring, beautiful femmes) high fiving in the pub, or the Busch ads of the cowboys in the mountains chasing mustangs while the Busch cools in the icy stream of splashing mountain water...thems the "quench your thirst beers". Now...for an evening/afternoon of conversation and maybe listening to Irish folk music, blues or an umpah band in a bier garten, or playing a few hands of bridge, or having with a prime rib; these call for "sippin" beers. These have flavor presence that resist chugging even tho those huge mugs of cool Ocktoberfest/Vienna, get gulped anyway.....I just can't sip my way thru a mug that size. If folks break out of the BudMillerCoors mold, they switch modes to sipping beers and savoring the smell, the flavor, the mouthfeel and finally the aftertaste. Those longnecks of "Lite" full of biting cold carbonation and little else, serve an important purpose in the hurried inbetweens of sets of line dancing or breaks in the ski session. Can a hot, thirsty tourist drain a wit, a bitter, a hefeweizen, a Guiness or a Kolsch? I can, so my "either/or" worlds maybe a bit shakey, but it helps me explain to the mainstream beer drinker why the bier world is so fasinating to me. Now to get to work so I have time to brew a CACA. cheers, jim booth, lansing, mi ps set your lawnmower at 3" high, its better for the grass and you don't have to cut it so often. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 09:18:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Joel Plutchak <plutchak at ncsa.uiuc.edu> Subject: Frothy Heads/Dark Wheat On the topic of nitrogen, heading, and Guinness... Pat Babcock wrote: >Frankly, I'm firm in my belief that all nitrogen in stout does is gives >us the means to agitate the beer to the point it outgasses CO2.... >In the widget, this is accomplished by by the jet of beer - beer >which got into the widget through the expansion of gasses in the >container forcing it in - agitating the remainder of the beer. In a >sparkler, the source of agitation is similar: forcing the beer through >a shower head causing multiple jets of beer. Conversely (at least partially), Dave Burley reasons that... >Nitrogen( or some non-soluble gas) is necessary to get the >characteristic foam on a Guiness. I agree that it is the >protein and other surfactants which are necessary to get a >foam, but the stability of the foam is due to the gas content >of the bubble. Just to throw another point of fact into the arena... Several years back (maybe around 1991), before the advent of the widget, a friend hiked around England and Ireland, bringing me back a 6-pack of Guinness he bought at the brewery. It came with a little black syringe-like thingy. One was instructed to inset the syringe in the beer in your glass, draw some up, then forcefully inject it back into the glass. The result was a nice creamy Guinness-like head on the beer, without the benefit of nitrogen. At the time, I tried it on other beer and got the same result. I have no recollection as to whether the head lasted as long as a nitrogen-dispensed or N2-widget head. I do still have the syringe-thingy, so I can do some side-by-side tests. - ------------------------------------------------------------- Meanwhile, "Dr. Pivo" asks: >Just where do you get "dark wheat"? While I don't think he asks the right question, I do have one answer. Schreier Malting Company (Sheboygan WI USA) sells a roasted wheat from their partner DeWolf-Cosyns (somewhere in Belgium). Seems to be more closely related to their Biscuit malt than to, e.g., roasted barley. - -- Joel Plutchak <plutchak at uiuc.edu> Brewing Big in Flatlandia (aka Champaign-Urbana), Illinois Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 10:23:23 -0400 From: Dan Listermann <72723.1707 at compuserve.com> Subject: Plaster of Paris Frank Timmons ( Frank.Timmons at Allied Signal.com ) writes: <Plaster of paris is just calcium sulfate (half hydrate, for the chem. geeks), with usually a little calcium carbonate as an impurity.> While I may be wrong, I believe that I was taught that plaster of paris had iron filings in it to compensate for srinkage. It seems that the iron filings rust during the curing of the gypsum and rust has more volume than the origional filings. The proper ratio produces no srinkage. Dan Listermann dan at listermann.com 72723.1707 at compuserve.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 09:46:27 -0500 From: "Rob" <brewmasters at texasbrew.com> Subject: re O2 caps >Call me a purist, but the shop I buy my caps from has them in an open box >from which I use a metal scoop to transfer them to my waiting bag. Being >open as such, I cannot be certain that they would be in the same state as >those taken from a freshly open box (possibly the key to their/your >success with the no-clean method). Any brewer worthy of their salt will >tell you that you don't want to expose wort or beer to grain dust, right? >All those lacto-buggies (among others) like to hitchhike on the husk and >end up on the dust, we're told. Well, I've never seen much care taken in >this particular shop (or any other, for that matter) to prevent said dust >from mingling with the nearby caps. They really have them in an open box? Ok I can see the problems there. All of the caps we sell we have in in bags. (to keep the dust/buggies off) I just didn't think that the Homebrew shop would sell them that way. Rob Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 09:50:30 -0500 From: "Curt Abert" <abert at flanders.isgs.uiuc.edu> Subject: re: draught question Greetings all, Al K. wrote in HBD #3018: > Finally, you should be prepared to *clean* and > sanitise the lines periodically. I chose to not > put my faucets on the outside of my cooler. Despite > the fact that my hoses and faucets are refrigerated, > I still get mould growth inside the faucet! This > will only be faster in an unrefrigerated faucet. > You may find yourself shutting off the system and > soaking the faucets in BLC (beer line cleaner) > a lot more often that you would like. While I agree with Al on the practice of sanitizing the lines, my experience is the exact opposite of his when it comes to the taps. I used to leave my cobra taps attached to the keg stored in a refridgerator, and I too suffered from mold growth on the taps. However, this winter I upgraded to a 3-tap tower system on a 'keggerator', and have found no mold growth on the taps stored at ambient air temperature. My guess is that the relatively high humidity found in the fridge is the culprit, not the temperature. YMMV, of course. Curt Abert Champaign, IL Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 10:50:32 -0400 From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com> Subject: foam discussion Dave says DeClerck states, "A gas such as carbon dioxide which is moderately soluble in water, diffuses much more rapidly through the films surrounding the bubbles than does air. Thus, a head formed by air is much more stable than one formed with carbon dioxide" If a bubble filled with air is surrounded with air what would be the cause for diffusion? So yeah, it would be more stable. - -------------------------------------------------- Dr. Pivo mentions perculation testing that shows nitrogen is significantly soluble. I am not clear where his nitrogen/water interface was, was that at the working depth of 400 metres? If that is the case then wouldn't the working pressure be in excess of 640 PSI? and I'm sure nitrogen would show increased solubiltiy at that pressure. Without seeing a schematic of the system I may be missing the evidence there. If we can trust Dr. Lewis' figures of .018 volume of N and 1.8 CO2 in a stout with a blend of N/CO2 at the ratio of 1:3 at a pressure of 45 PSIA that puts the solubity of nitrogen hundreds of time lower than CO2, but that is beer, simple water reacts differently. From *anecdotal* evidence, gases don't just *pop* out of solution instantaneously. Look at any beer you've opened, doesn't it take hours for a beer to go still after opening? The CO2 evolves slowly over a period of time, or we'd always have flat beer or bars would have evolved into specially licensed hyperbaric chambers. This was the point of my relating it to the "bends". If nitrogen evolved out of solution at the same rate that CO2 left solution there would be no "bends". This is why the switch to helium blends for deep diving that *do* exit solution as fast or faster than CO2. - ----------------------------------------------------- Dave also said, >"When someone starts a tirade with his credentials >in the format like "I have forgotten more technology >in brewing than I know", I watch out. Similarly if someone says,"I taught him all I know and he still doesn't know a thing." better duck. <g> Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 09:55:19 -0500 From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu> Subject: Mash thickness with recirculation Hi! For those of you that use pumps to recirculate the mash (RIMS, HERMS, etc.) what sort of grist to water ratio do you use? I realize that with a false bottom, you have to have enough strike water to cover the false bottom, but beyond that, what sort of ratio do you use to "allow" you to recirculate with a pump? nathan in madison, wi trying to prevent problems before they begin Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 10:57:07 -0400 (EDT) From: John Varady <rust1d at usa.net> Subject: AC Q's I am finally putting the finishing touches on my walk in cold room. I am planning on using an AC unit to cool the room to 52F. I am wondering what the AC will do when the temp of the air outside is lower that the temp in the cold room? Will the fan on the AC turn on and draw cold air from outside into the box without running the compressor? I was planning on using a two thermostat arrangement that would either run the AC or a muffin fan depending upon the temp of the air outside. If it is lower than the set temp of the room then the fan would turn on, otherwise the AC would turn on. After thinking about it, I thought that perhaps the AC unit would only run the compressor when it was needed. I am trying to save electricity by only using the AC when necessary (especially in the fall/winter/spring when outdoor temps are lower than 52F). If the AC cannot handle this task on it's own, what kind of circuit arrangement would I need to do what I want? My guess is: I would need one temp controller to switch power between the muffin fan & the AC depending upon the temperature outside. Say, for example, the set temp is 52F. If the outside temp is 52F or lower the muffin fan would be supplied power. If the outside temp is greater than 52F, the power would be switched to the AC. I assume I would need some kind of a relay to switch the power between the two. A second controller would sense the temp inside the cold room and turn on the power to the above circuit (which would then turn on either the fan or the AC and cool the room). - I had a blast at the big brew last weekend. I made 15 gallons of AlK Alt (100% Munich to 1052 & 55 IBUs; mostly from Spalt, but about 25% from Hallertau since I only had 1/2 pound of 3.5 AAU Spalt, not quite enough to hit 55 IBUs). We were having so much fun, we forgot to toast at 2 pm. Our site had an importer (John Strong) from Warminster Malting stop in and hang out for a while. He ended up leaving us 4 25kg sacks of floor malted Marris Otter Pale Ale. I can't wait to try it in my next batch. Later, - -- John Varady The HomeBrew Recipe Calculating Program Boneyard Brewing Custom Neon Beer Signs For Home Brewers Glenside, PA Get More Information At: rust1d at usa.net http://www.netaxs.com/~vectorsys/varady Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 11:12:53 -0400 From: Matt Brooks <mabrooks at erols.com> Subject: Calcium Phosphate precipitation In HBD 3019 Alan Meeker wrote, >Matt, I don't understand your stated requirement for high pH in order to get CaPO4 to precipitate. My post was not intended to imply that CaHPO4 (I am not certain CaPO4 is a compound? ) would not form in brew water or wort as it very well may. Actually, if you had read my post thoroughly, as a grad student in the sciences (I myself having been one not too long ago) who is reviewing a technical statement for critique should :^) , you would have noticed that I said "Hydroxyapatite" would not form unless the pH was over 11.0, this statement is true. Hydroxyapatite is a more complex form of calcium phosphate precipitate... Ca5(PO4)3OH.... which precipitates out at high pHs. Certainly Calcium Phosphate will precipitate out of a solution with excessive levels of both Ca and PO4 available (especially the orthophosphate), and favorable conditions prevail, unfortunately I dont believe there will be a whole lot of free Ca available for the reaction to occur (unless of course the brew water has an excess of non carbonate Ca hardness, which would make it less then ideal for most beers) or of course the brewer is adding CaCl2, or CaSO4. Even if the brewer is adding readily available forms of Ca it is not as simple as adding two reagents to a test tube to get CaPO4 to precipitate out of solution, as there are numerous other reaction competing in the mash. >The only source I could quickly lay my hands on (MBAA The Practical Brewer) quotes PO4 levels in wort >at between 575 and 846 mg/L for a 12 degP wort. A question regarding MBAA analysis of "PO4" concentrations in wort, are these actual orthophosphate concentrations (the readily reactive form of phosphorus) , are they recorded as "mg/L as phosphorus" it is very unusual to post a PO4 concentration alone rather the convention is to post orthophosphates in "mg/L as phosphorus". Unless the PO4 is readily available (weak acid or strong base form, as in a phosphate buffer soln.. also high localized PO4 concentrations are key for getting the precipitation to occur) for the reaction with Ca it would take a bit of coaxing to get it going, if it proceeded forward at all. The calcium phosphate system is very complex, and there are a variety of solids that can form. These solids can be grouped as follows: Orthophosphates, Polyphosphates, Mataphosphates, and Organicphosphates, within these major groups there are numerous individual compounds that may form as a result of phosphate complexing. Also the absence of excessive alkalinity (over and above the hardness requirement) will need to be investigated, as CaCO3 will tend to readily form if additional Ca becomes available from CaCl2 additions. In short, can CaHPO4 precipitation occur in wort, perhaps, but I dont think it is occurring. Maybe someone can convince me otherwise, as I have been known to be wrong before, but just once, and that was when I thought I was wrong, but as it turned out I was actually right :^). Matt B. Northern VA. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 08:27:42 -0700 From: "Larry Maxwell" <Larry at bmhm.com> Subject: Re: "Dr. Pivo" Dave Burley writes: >If I have to call Dr. Pivo "Dr." ( whether he is or >not so educated), then lots of other folks here, >including me, should be so honored. Frankly, >this is not a forum for that kind of name calling. >Like all others, I prefer to be called by my given >name or nickname - please stick to "Dave" If "Dr. Pivo" is not his nickname, then he is one lucky brew(st)er! Cool name. -Larry (just "Larry") in San Diego Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 11:29:16 -0500 From: Vachom <MVachow at newman.k12.la.us> Subject: MI hops-grower needed After several months of fast-talking, I've convinced my mother, an herb-farmer, to produce hops on her farm in northern Michigan. Word has gotten out quickly, and she has already received orders for dried hops and rhizomes from local brewers--and the hops are still in planting flats in the greenhouse. My mother is in need of advice, however, from an experienced hops grower. She's done lots of reading, has decades of horticultural experience with a wide variety of flowers, herbs, vegetables, etc., but she's been gardening privately and commercially long enough to know that she needs some on-site, practical advice from someone who's grown hops--particularly on how to protect the plants from vermin and disease. If you live in Michigan or plan on visiting this spring and have hops-growing experience, please drop me an email. It's a beautiful farm, right in cherry country, lots of flowers, herbs, etc. near lots of vacation attractions. I'm certain such an adviser would get some free fresh hops and rhizomes, too. Mike New Orleans, LA Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 12:39:01 -0400 From: Matt Brooks <mabrooks at erols.com> Subject: CaPO4 Precipitate In HBD 3019 AJ wrote: >Matt Brooks posted in #3016 that phosphate does not precipitate until >high pH is reached and that the precip does not form on an equivalent >per equivalent basis. Strictly speaking neither of these statements is >quite correct Actually I said that "Hydroxyapatite" [Ca5(PO4)3OH] does not precipitate until the pH reaches 11.0, which still holds true. >These reactions occur on an equivalent basis as do all reactions not really: this particular reaction (hydroxyapatite formation) is a pH driven reaction, not a milliequivalent per milliequivalent based reaction, as the hydroxyapatite compound has an OH attached which is a direct result of the excessively high pH at which this reaction occurs. The formation of hydroxyapatite is spontaneous at pH 11.0 and will only cease when all the PO4 is complexed with Ca or the pH is lowered. As I just posted to the HBD about CaPO4 complexes suffice to say there is alot of competing reaction and there are way too many phosphate complexes (Orthophospates, Polyphosphates, Metaphophates, and Organicphosphates), that could form in a wort solution that may take precedence to calcium phosphate precipitation. Could calcium phosphate precipitation occur, certainly, does it occur I don't think so, not to the extent that it plays a role in the brewing process (i.e. negative effects).... > we raise the pH converting >them to, respectively CO3-- and PO4---, in the presence of calcium as, >for example, by using calcium hydroxide as the alkali). This promotes >the formation of highly insoluble calcium carbonate and calcium >phosphate (actually hydroxyappatite in the case of phosphate) Actually as stated above "Hydroxyapatite" will not form unless the pH is 11.0 or greater, Calcium Hydrogen Phosphate, or Tricalcium Phosphate may form at lower pHs but to my knowledge the hydroxyapatite form does not occur at less then pH = 11.0. >Furthermore, the solubility product of hydroxyappatite is uncertain to about 10 orders of magnitude. perhaps, however the K (so) of hydroxyapatite is 10 (-55.9- uppercase) which is about as small as I have seen for a compound (except Fe2S3) so 10 order of magnitude seems of little consequence, as 10(-45) is still quite insoluble. Also, the statement that barley malt is 1% phosphate does not indicate that it is in the reactive form of orthophosphate [HxPO4] (where x = the number of hydrogens), it could be bound up in Organicphosphate (or other) complexes such as glucose 6-phosphate, or phospholipids, nucleotides, phosphoamides etc....... Unless of course you meant that barley was 1% orthophosphate, which seems a bit excessive to me, one would first have to break the existing phosphate complex to get phosphate onto the reactive form before calcium could complex with it, unless the complex was relatively weak to begin with, this could be a challenge. I hope this post does not escalate into another ongoing debate about a topic that I dont believe really makes a difference in the brewing process, and isnt that the bottom line.........does it make a difference? Matt B. Northern VA. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 12:42:14 -0500 From: "Anthony Brown" <brown32 at ecol.net> Subject: dispensing pressure Just another quick kegging question... I store my beer in kegs in the fridge at around 40 degrees, and to carbonate it to my liking I need to pressurize to 18 or so psi. To dispense however, i need to crank it down to 8 or so psi to avoid excessive foaming even with 6 feet of 3/16" tubing attatched. My question is after my beer is adequately carbonated at 18 psi, can I just leave the pressure in the kegs at 8-10 psi for dispensing without losing carbonation over time? Any help would make my life easier without all that regulator adjusting, and I would really rather not have 8-10 feet of tubing wrapped up in my fridge.... Thanks, Tony B. Return to table of contents
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