HOMEBREW Digest #3122 Sat 28 August 1999

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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Subscription probe completed (Homebrew Digest)
  Most Common Calculations (David Sweeney)
  attenuation ("St. Patrick's")
  Brewing Techniques ("St. Patrick's")
  Cleaning CPWC's (Nancy George)
  yeast (Spencer W Thomas)
  Re: Judging Inconsistencies (Spencer W Thomas)
  pseudonyms ("Arnold Chickenshorts")
  Re: Judging Inconsistencies (Pat Babcock)
  are hops our obsession? (AlannnnT)
  HBD and publicity ("Josh Hawkins")
  Experience with White Labs Hefe Weizen IV (WLP380)? (Dave Humes)
  Mint Choc.Stout, George Fix, and Windriver referral (James Jerome)
  Re: How rude! (Steve Lacey)
  re: Pivo inferno on NAT gas... ("John Stegenga")
  re: mash mixer/evaporative cooling (Lou.Heavner)
  Cereal Mash and HSA ("Alan McKay")
  economies of scale (MVachow)
  Re:Primary vs. Secondary Experiment (Matthew Comstock)
  ethyl hexanoate ("Arnold Chickenshorts")
  Beer in South Africa (John Roe)
  cleaning cf chiller, copper tubing info ("St. Patrick's")
  Peppery flavor in beer (MICHAEL WILLIAM MACEYKA)
  My no-sparge experience/data series (Dean Fikar)
  AHA Club-Only Mead judging postponement (Ken Schramm)
  Cleaning CF heat exchanges, revisited... (Harlan Bauer)
  re: Scottish Ales (Scott Murman)
  homemade eisbock (Bryan Gros)
  Re: High gravity follies (Matthew Comstock)

* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! * The HBD now hosts eight digests related to this and a few other hobbies. * The latest are the Gadgeteers Digest (gadget at hbd.org) and the Home * Brew Shop Owners' Discussion Forum (brewshop at hbd.org). * Send an email note to majordomo at hbd.org with the word "lists" on one * line, and "help" on another (don't need the quotes) for a listing and * instructions for use. Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!! To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org. **SUBSCRIBE AND UNSUBSCRIBE REQUESTS MUST BE SENT FROM THE E-MAIL ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!** IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, the autoresponder and the SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE commands will fail! Contact brewery at hbd.org for information regarding the "Cat's Meow" Back issues are available via: HTML from... http://hbd.org Anonymous ftp from... ftp://hbd.org/pub/hbd/digests ftp://ftp.stanford.edu/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer AFS users can find it under... /afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer COPYRIGHT for the Digest as a collection is currently held by hbd.org (Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen). Digests in their entirity CANNOT be reprinted/reproduced without this entire header section unless EXPRESS written permission has been obtained from hbd.org. Digests CANNOT be reprinted or reproduced in any format for redistribution unless said redistribution is at absolutely NO COST to the consumer. COPYRIGHT for individual posts within each Digest is held by the author. Articles cannot be extracted from the Digest and reprinted/reproduced without the EXPRESS written permission of the author. The author and HBD must be attributed as author and source in any such reprint/reproduction. (Note: QUOTING of items originally appearing in the Digest in a subsequent Digest is exempt from the above. Home brew clubs NOT associated with organizations having a commercial interest in beer or brewing may republish articles in their newsletters and/or websites provided that the author and HBD are attributed. ASKING first is still a great courtesy...) JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:51:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Homebrew Digest <hbd at brew.oeonline.com> Subject: Subscription probe completed Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager.... The recent subscription "probe" is complete, and the subscription list is now over 300 users leaner. Unfortunately, though, some of the errors returned that removed addresses from the list were ambiguous - they indicated permanent errors, but some looked like a services attempt to divert spam. If you find yourself reading the Digest on the web because you're suddenly not getting it in your mailbox anymore, simply resubscribe. And, please: if you are leaving a mail account, please, please, please unsubscribe from the HBD (and any other internet mail list you are subscribed to) first. This is a time-consuming process. If I automate the process, many would simply be dropped rather than have their addresses corrected. And the "personal touch" allows those whoare having trouble unsubscribing a little help, too. Cheers! The Home Brew Digest Janitorial Staff Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 15:44:49 -0500 From: David Sweeney <David at stulife2.tamu.edu> Subject: Most Common Calculations Howdy All! I'm thinking about writing a brewing calculator program for the 3COM Palm. I've been using my PC for brew calculations, and it's not as convenient as a Palm application would be. So...I'm trying to come up with a set of the most common brewing calculations that we use. There are many excellent calculators (many on The Brewery) that I can use for a standard. What I would like from the collective is your top 12 most useful brewing calculations and how you calculate them. For your hard work, I promise post my Palm brewers calculator application to The Brewery for all to use. Cheers, David Sweeney Texas A&M University David at stulife2.tamu.edu <mailto:David at stulife2.tamu.edu> - --I'm learning big things - --David's 3 year old daughter Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 17:23:15 -0500 From: "St. Patrick's" <stpats at bga.com> Subject: attenuation Attenuation The brewers who suggested attenuation is largely controlled by mash schedule would seem to be on the mark. When Michael Jackson and I were visiting breweries in the Czech Republic earlier this month this issue came up in particular at Hostan Znojmo Brewery. The brewery produces beer for export to Austria which is more fully attenuated than the beer for Czech consumption. Assorted photos of the Czech Republic trip on our web site. Lynne O'Connor St. Patrick's of Texas Brewers Supply http://www.stpats.com stpats at bga.com 512-989-9727 512-989-8982 facsimile Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 17:23:42 -0500 From: "St. Patrick's" <stpats at bga.com> Subject: Brewing Techniques Brewing Techniques It is my understanding that BT is indeed out of business. IMHO, Brewing Techniques was the leader of the homebrewer magazines over the past several years in advancing the hobby and they will be dearly missed. Lynne O'Connor St. Patrick's of Texas Brewers Supply http://www.stpats.com stpats at bga.com 512-989-9727 512-989-8982 facsimile Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 17:44:49 -0400 From: Nancy George <homsweet at voicenet.com> Subject: Cleaning CPWC's Regarding the cleaning of CPWC's, National Chemical Co. makes a product called BLC (Beer line cleaner)it's actually designed to clean-in-place draft systems but I find it very useful around the homebrewery. Add 2oz to 5 gallons of boiling water flush the entire amount through the chiller IN BOTH DIRECTIONS. Run it through, turn the chiller over and then run it through the other way. Follow with a 10 minute water flush. It's amazing the gunk that this strips out of the inside of that puppy! Nancy & George HomeSweet Homebrew 2008 Sansom St. Phila PA 19103 USA 215-569-9469 215-569-4633 (fax) homsweet at voicenet.com www.beerphiladelphia/homesweet Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 19:39:41 -0400 From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu> Subject: yeast How many buds would a yeast cell bud if a yeast cell could bud buds? Try that one three times fast. :=) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 19:53:31 -0400 From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu> Subject: Re: Judging Inconsistencies Unfortunately, the bjcp certification process is really only a start. It does not, for example, require that the judge quantify the amount of hop aroma in a test beer, or be able to recognize and distinguish Tettnang from Cascade hops, for example. Some hop aromas come through smelling like other things to a less-experienced judge (for example, there is frequently a "fruity" aroma in German pilsners which is often from the hops.) Or maybe one of the judges is a smoker, which can really throw off aroma perception. I don't know. Sounds to me like 2 out of 3 of the judges agreed that there was low hop aroma, but the third judge (the one who wanted more) wasn't reading the style guideline very carefully. Koelsch is a tough style to judge because most of us have never had a real one. So we have to go by the words in the description, and not by some taste-memory. It's a lot easier to do an Irish-style dry stout because we've all (presumably) had draft Guinness in the past and have some sort of reference to go on. Personally, I don't think that "medium but a little much for style" and "ok for style but a little thin" are "180 degrees" apart. Probably the two judges have a slightly different opinion of what the proper body for a Koelsch should be, and slightly different calibration points on "thin" vs "medium". So one finds the body a bit large, and thus more than he thinks a Koelsch should have, while the other finds it a bit small, but close to what a Koelsch should have. One thing that I've found in judging is that we are most likely to disagree on the beers "in the middle". The really bad ones are pretty easy to pick out, and the *really good* ones are also easy to pick out. But the ones in the middle, from say 25-38 are where we're most likely to disagree on the particulars. I recently judged a bunch of Koelsches for a local homebrew competition. I don't know if one was yours (although I doubt it because there were only two of us on the panel). We had a bunch of Ok to good beers, and then one outstanding beer. There was absolutely no question about the one. On the others, we had sometimes to discuss things to come to a consensus. =Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI (spencer at umich.edu) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 18:21:21 PDT From: "Arnold Chickenshorts" <achickenshorts at hotmail.com> Subject: pseudonyms It has come to my attention that certain posters to this digest have been using pseudonyms. I abhor this practice and insist it stop immediately. Arnold Chickenshorts _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 22:16:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at mail.oeonline.com> Subject: Re: Judging Inconsistencies Greetings, Beerlngs! Take me to your lager... Though some would argue that I don't take _anything_ seriously, there are a few things. Judging beers is one. Something I hold close when participating in a competition is that home brewers are not there for the judges. Quite the contrary: judges are there for the homebrewers. Spencer hits some of the points rihgt on the money in his post: > Unfortunately, the bjcp certification process is really only a start. > > It does not, for example, require that the judge quantify the amount > of hop aroma in a test beer, or be able to recognize and distinguish > Tettnang from Cascade hops, for example. > smelling like other things to a less-experienced judge (for example, > there is frequently a "fruity" aroma in German pilsners which is <snip> > Or maybe one of the judges is a smoker, which > can really throw off aroma perception. I don't know. Sounds to me > like 2 out of 3 of the judges agreed that there was low hop aroma, but > the third judge (the one who wanted more) wasn't reading the style > guideline very carefully. This is right on the money. Those who have found my name on their score sheets will note that I rarely, if ever, try to identify a hop. I will comment on the aroma and flavor and it's applicability to the style, but I'm not not good enough yet to tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that what hop you used. Sitting across from some top-notch judges over the last few years have taught me this. Yup, I agree with Spencer's analysis. > Koelsch is a tough style to judge because most of us have never had a > real one. So we have to go by the words in the description, and not > by some taste-memory. It's a lot easier to do an Irish-style dry > stout because we've all (presumably) had draft Guinness in the past > and have some sort of reference to go on. Another on the mark. I have had a "real" koelsch. Thanks to a friend of mine who brought me some back from Cologne - fresh! - I have had several. The style definitions I have read do not fully match the meory of these beers. There is a lot in the description that is spot on, but there are things I see as missing. That the style guides, or my faulty memory? (I vote on the latter, but it's probably the former. How's that for fence-sitting? ;-) > One thing that I've found in judging is that we are most likely to > disagree on the beers "in the middle". The really bad ones are pretty > easy to pick out, and the *really good* ones are also easy to pick out. > But the ones in the middle, from say 25-38 are where we're most likely > to disagree on the particulars. I recently judged a bunch of Koelsches OH YOU HAVE NAILED IT. Though there is occasionally some discussion amongst the good and the bad. Particularly the good when there are a bunch of them, but this is usually just to separate the best of the flight from the rest of the flight. Minor point. > for a local homebrew competition. I don't know if one was yours > (although I doubt it because there were only two of us on the panel). > We had a bunch of Ok to good beers, and then one outstanding beer. > There was absolutely no question about the one. On the others, we had > sometimes to discuss things to come to a consensus. Heh! I can attest to that. I was the other judge... Beer judging is a learning experience to me. With each session, I learn to identify more of the flavor components I find in beers, and, therefor I can do a better job of telling you about your beer. By doing a better job of telling you about your beer, maybe I'll tell you something that improves them and you take a ribbon in the next round (for all of you taking ribbons now, judging your beers is usually a privelege and a major part of the learning experience.) I think, for the vast majority of us out there judging beers, it is just that: an opportunity to learn more about beer and the hope that, through that learning, we might help a fellow homebrewer out of a rut. Most are not the ego-driven megalomaniacs I am - er - that some picture us to be... - See ya! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at oeonline.com Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org HBD Web Site http://hbd.org The Home Brew Page http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/brew.html "Just a cyber-shadow of his former brewing self..." Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 22:12:36 EDT From: AlannnnT at aol.com Subject: are hops our obsession? Rod Prather wrote: >A few friends and I were talking about hops and it's relationship to >cannabis. With the recent news that the actual addictive site of THC is in >the short term memory, we were wondering if there might be an addictive >compound in hops. Has anyone read anything about this. Yes, the addictive compound attached to hops, is BEER, preferably homebrew of course. Alan Talman Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 02:02:34 GMT From: "Josh Hawkins" <hutster31 at hotmail.com> Subject: HBD and publicity Hey guys, Looks like the Brewing Techniques Magazine is on it's way out. Very sadly, our favorite mag is at the printer, but is not gonna get printed. Swirling rumors involve bad news and personal problems for the publisher as being at the heart of it all. Maybe someone out there wants to buy a magazine? I wonder what that means for the publicity campaign. Robert Z _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 99 00:40:43 -0400 From: Dave Humes <humesdg1 at earthlink.net> Subject: Experience with White Labs Hefe Weizen IV (WLP380)? Greetings, Has anyone had the opportunity to try White Labs Hefeweizen IV (WLP380) yeast yet? I just did a split batch between it and the more common WLP300 and got some surprising results. WLP380 has a specified apparent attenuation of 73-80%, whereas WLP300 has a slightly lower range of 72-76%. The 10 gal, 60% wheat malt / 40% Pils malt split batch started with an OG of 1.054. I do not directly pitch the White Labs yeast despite the claims of it being pitchable yeast. Each tube was initially pitched into 2000mL of 1.040 sterile wort, allowed ferment out, decanted the spent beer, repitched again into another 2000mL of 1.040 sterile wort, allowed to ferment out, and on brew day decanted and fed 500mL 1.040 sterile wort 5 hours before pitching. The starters were each oxygenated with O2 prior to pitching. The wort was also oxygenated. Both 6.5 gal fermenters were kept in the same temperature controlled freezer at 65F. Actual fermentation temperature runs a few degrees higher. Both fermenters were actively fermenting 4 hours after pitching and high kraeusen was reached in about 15 hours. Both fermentations were very vigourous requiring blowoff tubes in the beginning. Both fermenters did blow off some yeast, but the most was lost from the WLP300 batch. Eleven days after pitching, the WLP300 batch was down to 1.013 and it had mostly dropped. The WLP380 batch only made it down to 1.019 in the same amount of time and it had completely quit. The other night I racked the WLP300 batch off to a secondary carboy and racked the WLP380 batch on top of the yeast cake from the WLP300. Next morning I was greeted with a new head of kraeusen and a bubbling airlock. Despite the poor attenuation performance of the WLP380, I really like its taste. Here's the White Labs description: WLP380- Hefeweizen IV Ale Yeast: Large clove and phenolic aroma and flavor, with minimal banana. Refreshing citrus and apricot notes. Crisp, drinkable hefeweizen. Less flocculant than WLP300, and sulfur production is higher. Attenuation: 73-80% Flocculation: Low. Optimum Fermentation Temperature: 66-70F. - --Dave - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------- Dave Humes <humesdg1 at earthlink.net> Dave Humes - ----------------------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 01:15:33 +0000 From: James Jerome <jkjerome at bellsouth.net> Subject: Mint Choc.Stout, George Fix, and Windriver referral Hi Ya'll I just purchased ingredients today ingredients for my forthcoming mint chocolate stout at my local homebrew shop. As usual, I bought more stuff than I needed. So now I am ready to make stout, IPA, and a batch of barley wine, can't wait. I also was ale to purchase the last two bottles of Thomas Paine Ale extant, luckily refrigerated until my purchas. Pretty good stuff. My thanks to Lois Bonham's post concerning George Fix's comments on icebrew. I have the paatent on order and, yep, it is a Labatt's patent. They earned it so give 'em credit. Based on the sincere admonitions of of Alan Meeker and others, I have ordered all (yep, all) books wth George's name as author. I am tired of not having read what everyone else has read. I am apparently on the list of pre-paid customers waiting on the second edition. I have had to switch to Amazon. com b/c my local bookseller apparently pulls major vacuum (He sucks). George, I still say Go Tigerss! if you are out there. Rob Wallace's positive comments abut "Windriver" are indicative of my need to give them some business. Once my wife gives methe budget go ahead, I plan to order. By the way, Northern Brewer and Cellar Homebrewing are my recommendations for mail-order. They are good, accurate, and efficient (I still have much business for them). A positive customer report sort of pushes me to support them. To Brew or Not to Brew is not the question, the question is how much and is it ready yet? Hoppily, Jett Jerome Ooltewah, TN Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 16:17:35 +1000 From: Steve Lacey <stevel at sf.nsw.gov.au> Subject: Re: How rude! Pat prudishly wrote: >AJ expresses some gas in his dissertation, and then doesn't even have the >common courtesy to excuse himself: >> I was best at the conclusion of a master judging course run by my club >> (BURP) where we had practice judging sessions every week for a couple of >> months. >You see it? Right there! How rude! AJ: this is _not_ a common barroom! >Please excuse yourself after belching! I'd rather prefer you waited until >after you had finished speaking before doing so. What's next? >Flatulence in the forum? Harumph! I for one have no problems with AJ's personal habits. At my weekly BRRT sessions (that's Brewing Related Relaxation Therapy) we are taught that bodily functions are not something to be embarrassed about. BRRT sessions are founded on the cost-effective PARP (Parsimonious Alcohol Relaxation Program). There are four over-riding principles to PARP. These are that alcohol is for Pleasure, Healing, Health and Truth (PHHT). Sometimes BRRT sessions become quite raucous as we BRRT, PARP and PHHT our way to nirvana. AJ would be quite at home in one of our sessions (BURP, 'scuse me!). Pat, on the other hand, with his prudish ways, is in desperate need of some BRRT and PARP therapy as a matter of some urgency. I mercifully choose to end this post now. Steve Lacey in Siddley Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 07:20:28 -0400 From: "John Stegenga" <bigjohns at mindspring.com> Subject: re: Pivo inferno on NAT gas... In the 8/27 HBD ThomasM923 wrote: >Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 23:26:51 EDT >From: ThomasM923 at aol.com >Subject: Burn Baby, Burn...Pivo Inferno... > >Oh, did I mention that I want to connect the burner to my house gas supply >(natural gas)? How does one go about this? Black iron pipe all the way up to >the burner? What kind of valve? And... Hey, I can contribute here! Cool! Home Depot carries, in their gas grill section, a Natural Gas quick connect conversion kit for about $40. It consists of a QuickConnect valve and a 12ft hose. If you have a stub (you should have a T with a capped short lenght of iron pipe after the shutoff that goes to your furnace) you attach a 1/2 to 3/8 brass flare coupling here - dope the pipe threads with that plumbers dope stuff - and then attach the quick connect to this. Make sure you turn off the gas somewhere BEFORE the stub prior to trying this. Test the whole deal for leaks. Then hook up the hose to the burner input (where you'd attach the propane regulator hose) and then to the quick connect. Turn on the appliance and fire it up! You cannot use 'jet' or 'high pressure' propane devices on a NAT line. Usually this means burners rated around 35Kbtu or less are available to you. Contact the manufacturer if you have doubt. DISCLAIMER/NOTE: I'm not a plumber or a gas engineer. Use of these instructions is at your own risk. If you don't want to risk blowing up your house, get a plumber to help you. NOTE 2: You're going to reduce your output by 20/25% here because a low pressure propane device gets fuel at a slightly higher pressure than the 1/2psi on your NAT feed, and because of other things I can't remember. I do know that some devices you can drill the orafice (where the gas shoots into the burner) out a little to increase the btu's. Again - see the disclaimer and contact the manufacturer for details! John Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:05:57 -0500 From: Lou.Heavner at frco.com Subject: re: mash mixer/evaporative cooling From: "Dana H. Edgell" <edgell at far-tech.com> #1 I have an ice-cream motor and a fan blade that I am attempting to use as a mash-mixer. The problem is that the motor goes clockwise and the fan blade is counter-clockwise which results in the mash being pulled up from the bottom by the mixer. {Snip} LWH>>>>Anyway you could mount the shaft to the other (outboard) side of the fan blade unit? weld? clamp? That seems way too obvious, so it probably isn't possible, but it seemed worth asking. #2 All the disccusion about evaporative cooling has me thinking about some brass & stainless steel nozzels I have for a mister. They have a 0.012"/0.3mm orifice and a flow rate of 0.540 gal/hr at 45psi water pressure. LWH>>>>Check out http://www.texasgardener.com/ and look for an article in the July/Aug 99 issue where they do that in a garden. I have used a spray bottle and squirted the sides of the kettle for faster cooling when I'm there. Usually chilling is unattended while I do ther things like feed the kids. ;) {Snip} I have noticed that my carboy t-shirts aren't the most effective at sucking up water and dry out near the top. A mister could keep the t-shirt wet. The mist could also keep my entire garage cooler and help that way. {Snip} LWH>>>>I too find that unattended t-shirts will dry out at top. ****QDA**** I suspect that a polyester t-shirt or synthetic material in general will wick better. This is based on the common wisdom/momily of skiing that orlon socks are better than cotton because they will wick more moisture away from your feet keeping them dryer. **** END QDA**** Do you ferment outdoors in the garage? Wow! my garage is currently running about 110 DegF with the door open, don't think any evaporative cooling is going to help me there! I ferment ales in a plastic pail using the t-shirt. It has a flat top, so what I do instead of spraying, is put some ice cubes on top and let them melt and drip down the sides. Keeps from having to replace as much water in the pot. I do get a lot of evaporation, but I've never measured it. I add about 6-10 ice cubes before and after work and still add water once or twice a week to the cooling water resevoir. The neat thing about this is the cooling water temp remains more constant than when adding ice to it directly and you still get to take advantage of the heat of melting, albeit indirectly, as well as the heat of vaporization. Phase changes always result in more heat transfer than small temperature differences. Cheers! Lou Heavner - Austin, TX home of the Lagniappe Brewery... something extra in every sip! Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:31:51 -0400 From: "Alan McKay" <amckay at nortelnetworks.com> Subject: Cereal Mash and HSA I find the best way to avoid HSA is simply to ignore all the dire warnings and the doom-and-gloomers. I regularly dump half my 12 gallon mash from my kettle to the lauter-tun, and have never once had a problem. To quote Dr Pivo, "let's put HSA to BED" ;-) Or you can just take a 4 quart (4 litre) Pyrex measuring cup and scoop out the Cereal Mash a bit at a time, and add to your main mash like that. cheers, -Alan > about personal survival rather than hot-side aeration problems. How do you add > the cereal mash in without a) serious burns, b) serious HSA, and c) serious arm > strain ? Any serious (or non-serious) suggestions welcomed. - -- Alan McKay OS Support amckay at nortelnetworks.com Small Site Integration 613-765-6843 (ESN 395) Nortel Networks All opinions expressed are my own Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:37:03 -0500 From: MVachow at newman.k12.la.us Subject: economies of scale Marc Sedam points out the hypocrisy in supply shop owners' complaints about their wholesalers using the same business tactics they themselves employ on the retail end. I would add to his remarks my own guess at the sub-text of Wyeast's tactics, namely, that Wyeast sees the writing on the carboy, as it were: the homebrewing fad has peaked out and is currently headed down the steep part of the curve. Soon enough there simply won't be enough business for a Wyeast and a White Labs and certainly not for the few other smaller yeast operations. So, they're trying to lock down their retail business, probably doing the same with their commercial customers in hopes that they'll be the last yeast operation standing 10 years from now. For most homebrewers who have developed the hobby as a lifelong pursuit, the larger implications mean fewer (if any) supply shops in your area and less variety at the few shops still around (picture your supply shop as the retail equivalent of Brew Your Own magazine, soon to be the last homebrew mag standing [?]). Massive retail/mail-order operations like St. Pat's will profit for a short period of time with increased orders from homebrewers disgusted by the fact that their local supply shops no longer carry Belgian crystal malts. But even these kinds of operations will feel the pinch eventually and will duke it out to be one of a small number of mail-order businesses left. Thus speaks the cynic. Mike New Orleans, LA Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 06:54:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Comstock <mccomstock at yahoo.com> Subject: Re:Primary vs. Secondary Experiment Thanks for responding to this discussion,Al. Triplets and Tripels? Congrats on both counts. You wrote: "The beer that was made with a secondary had a slightly less intense aroma and flavour. Both clearly had some higher alcohols and spicy character, but they were noticeably stronger in the beer made only with a primary." I apologize for my inexperience with Belgian beers, but is this a good result or a bad one. Is the primary-only better because it is spicier and has some higher alcohols present? Interestingly, after convincing myself that I don't always need to follow the same old rote advice '...if you really want to make good beer, transfer to a secondary....' I made a Tripel of my own and transferred to a secondary soon after the primary finished bubbling. With your post, I kinda wish I hadn't. Why did I? I don't know. I was worried about the higher alcohol level in the beer maybe leading to autolysis. I've never used the Wyeast 1214 before. It seems like when I've read about autolysis its always been with a goofy yeast source; a novel strain or something recultured from a commercial bottle, etc. So I transferred to a secondary against my better judgement as I had both a higher EtOH level and a novel yeast strain. We'll see how it turns out. Thanks again for your comments. Matt Comstock in Cincinnati. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 07:09:47 PDT From: "Arnold Chickenshorts" <achickenshorts at hotmail.com> Subject: ethyl hexanoate >Also note that ethyl hexanoate in beer in usually caused by insufficient >aeration. Wrong AJ. Late hops is the primary etiology. Methyl hexanoate in hops is trans-esterified by yeast to the ethyl ester. Arnold. _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:53:20 -0400 From: John Roe <Sensei_John_Roe at compuserve.com> Subject: Beer in South Africa Are there many/any exceptional beers that are unique to South Africa? Any also available in the USA? In LoCal? John Roe Laguna Hills, Ca www.martialartsacademy.org Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:11:42 -0500 From: "St. Patrick's" <stpats at bga.com> Subject: cleaning cf chiller, copper tubing info Cleaning CFWC St. Pat's sells tubing brushes that are 66" long. Many CFWC have less than 10' of inner tubing so cleaning from both ends does the job. However, since the tubing is coiled, it's difficult to push 3/8" brush all the way into 1/2" copper tubing (3/8" ID) or 1/4" brush into 3/8" tubing (1/4" ID). If you have a CFWC with 1/2" copper (3/8" ID) then I recommend a 1/4" brush. Or if you have CFWC with 3/8" copper or the 3/8" Stainless steel inner coil such as we make, then I recommend the 3/16" brush. A note of clarification: Refrigeration tubing is denoted by it's OD. Pipe by its ID. Refrig is soft copper but plumbing tubing can also be soft, hence the confusion. "Cleaned and Capped" are the key words in selecting tubing for wort chillers. Both the stainless steel (3/8") as well as the copper (1/2") used for our new CFWC is "cleaned and capped". We also use cleaned and capped copper for the outer coils but that would not really be necessary unless you plan on consuming the cooling water. Lynne O'Connor St. Patrick's of Texas Brewers Supply http://www.stpats.com stpats at bga.com 512-989-9727 512-989-8982 facsimile Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 12:38:57 -0400 (EDT) From: MICHAEL WILLIAM MACEYKA <mmaceyka at welch.jhu.edu> Subject: Peppery flavor in beer Howdy, Thomas Murray asks about black pepper flavor in beer. I have not noticed this flavor in the beers he mentioned, but I have noticed what I perceive as a peppery flavor in beers that had small amounts of coarsely ground coriander and in older beers that had lots of coriander but the orangey flavor had diminished. I also detect what I call black pepper in more intense red wines like zinfindel and shiraz, which I always attributed to the tannins from these grapes. To duplicate it in beers, I would suggest going with a bit of the real thing, adding at bottling to taste. Mike Maceyka Four Square Brewing Baltimore, MD Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:56:16 -0500 From: Dean Fikar <dfikar at flash.net> Subject: My no-sparge experience/data series In an earlier post, I alluded to my no-sparge experience and recieved a number of emails requesting me to post my data. Here goes... The stength (SG) of the runoff, of course, varies inversely with amount of water used per pound of grain. OTOH, the volume of the runoff is greater with higher water/grist ratios. For the last 14-15 months most of my mashes have been of the no-sparge variety. The following is my data, split into decoction and non-decoction series. I did the split since my extraction rates are significantly higher with the decoction mashes. This seems to be a common scenario for most brewers. As you can see, the correlation coefficients are pretty good for both series (about 0.92). The decoction series, however, has too few data points to be completely trusted, IMHO. I feel pretty good about the non-decoction series at this point. Obviously, the different types of systems we brew with may have something to do with the repeatability of the results and standard disclaimers certainly apply here. I would be careful about extrapolating values outside the posted ranges (i.e. about 1.9 - 2.0 qts/lb for decoctions and 1.5 - 2.1 qts/lb for non-decoctions). FWIW, all of these batches were mashed using an ultra low-tech 10 gal. cooler with a slotted copper manifold. Most of the non-decocted batches were single infusion and the others were single decoctions. I often add a mashout step unless I just don't feel like messing with it that particular day. Decoction: SG(Y) qts/lb(X) - -- ------ 60 1.90 62 1.85 56 2.15 57 2.01 Y = 92.751 * X^-0.6726 R2 = 0.9175 Non-Decoction: SG(Y) qts/lb(X) - -- ------ 62 1.80 67 1.68 78 1.55 72 1.70 82 1.58 60 1.92 59 1.88 66 1.80 63 1.74 56 2.00 50 2.10 56 1.89 Y = 153.28 * X^ -1.5005 R2 = 0.9154 The other part of the equation, of course, is figuring the volume of the runoff. With my system I find that the water absorbed by the grain is about 0.122 gal./lb. grain. I guess an example from a recently brewed batch might be in order: Mesquite smoked wheat beer (non-decoction, actual values) grist: 16.0 lbs water: 8.4 gal (incl mashout) qts/lb: 2.1 runoff: 6.4 gal at 1.050 The formula for predicting the runoff SG would look like this: Y (predicted SG) = 153.28 * (2.1 ^ -1.5005) = 1.0503 (pretty close to actual SG!) Predicting runoff volume: Water absorbed by grain = 16 * 0.122 = 1.952 gal. Predicted runoff: 8.4 - 1.952 = 6.448 gal. (pretty close again!) I hope this helps give some idea of what kind of real-world results you might expect for those of you considering no-sparge brewing. As always, YMMV. FWIW, my efficiencies were in the high 50's for the non-decocted batches and around 60 for decoctions. I'd be interested in seeing anyone else's no-sparge experience posted to compare and contrast with mine. Dean Fikar - Ft. Worth, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 13:40:14 -0400 From: Ken Schramm <Ken.Schramm at oakland.k12.mi.us> Subject: AHA Club-Only Mead judging postponement It is with regret that I am postponing this evening's scheduled judging of the AHA COC "It's a mead mead mead mead world!" judging. We were not able to gain commitments from a large enough pool of qualified judges, and rather that compromise the results, I have elected to postpone the judging until early September, when a session with Detroit/Ann Arbor's best judges can be assembled. This will also serve to provide rest time for at least two meads which were shipped on time but did not make it to my home until yesterday. I will contact Paul Gatza, and post the results as quickly as possible to the fora he deems appropriate. If you have any questions, please contact me at this address. My home phone is 248 816-1592, if you have questions about your entry. Again, my apologies, Ken Schramm Ann Arbor Brewers Guild. Troy, Michigan Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 13:31:45 -0500 From: Harlan Bauer <blacksab at midwest.net> Subject: Cleaning CF heat exchanges, revisited... In response to my last post, Paul Niebergall wrote: >I have not noticed any beer stone or crud build up (at least as far as I >can see down the copper tube - which is about 3 inches with a good >flashlight) in my counter flow chiller (CFC). I suppose that at some >point you could get enough build up that it starts to interfere with the >sanitization. If you notice that you are starting to get beer stone build >up, or a reduction in flow rate due to unseen build up, it probably is a >good idea to start running a cleaner such as Birko or 5-Star thought the >inner line of your CFC. And of course, it probably doesnt hurt to do this >just because it makes you feel better. (50 feet of copper tubing is a >lot unknown surface area, that cant be inspected). However, I dont think >that CFCs are necessarily any more prone to causing infections than any >other piece of beer making equipment. The one saving grace is that they >are made of smooth copper. There are no real crevices or scratches for >bugs to adhere. You may not be able to see the insides, but the copper >gets real hot (now there is a technical term for you) during the boiling >water rinse. 1. 3-inches out of 50-feet? Hmmm. Does not seem to me to be a representative sample, nor a statistically significant one either. 2. If you were to develop a buildup that was beginning to interfere with flow, that would constitute a HUGE amount of buildup. Even with massive turbulent flow (not really possible in a non-plate HE), even professional cleaners like Birko and 5-Star would never be able to remove such soils without hand scrubbing--they are designed as a preventative maintenence. 3. Accumulating soils such as beer-stone (calcium oxalate) WILL eventually adhere to any smooth surface. Once this initially occurs, increased accumulation is not linear, it becomes exponential. It is in this accumulation that bacteria hide, and, what is worse, is partially insulated from the heat. 4. Hot water is a good sanitizer, but only when used on a clean surface. In addition, unless you have a temperature probe on the outfeed of the HE, there is no way of knowing what the actual temperature of the outflow is--IOW, there is a temperature drop between inlet and outlet. Heat sanitation is a function of temperature and contact time, in the same way that chemical sanitation is a function of concentration and contact time. I agree that in most instances, a quicky hot water rinse is marginally effective against wort-spoiling bacteria (enterics) which are heat sensitive, but this is less true of beer-spoiling organisms, especially pediococcus, which are considerably more heat tolerant and VERY difficult to destroy. 5. Wort chillers are a common source of infection because cooled, un-pitched wort (a rich, nutrient media) is passing through them on the way to the fermenter. One can SEE whether the carboy is clean, not so with a HE. >So long as boiling (not just "hot") water is cleaning effectively and you >are not getting a crud build up, then it is also sanitizing effectively. >There are quite a few people out there cleaning their CFCs with boiling >water. If counter flow chillers were so notorious for producing >infections, I doubt that many people would be doing it. >It may be "out of sight; out of mind", but it can also be though of as "If >I am not a having a problem; I am not going to worry about it" As I implied in #4 above, boiling water in a kettle does not equate to boiling water at the outfeed of a HE; therefore, all that is being run through the HE, especially the last portion of a 20-50 foot HE is hot water. Without a temperature probe, you have no way of knowing the actual temperature--this would be the same as not knowing the concentration of a chemical sanitizer and so, not knowing the proper contact time required for it to be effective. As for your final two points, these are not arguments; scientific fact is not based on democratic principles. I've tasted A LOT of infected beer, both at the homebrew level and at the professional level, and HE's are a common source. It is not a coincidence that brewers like George Fix consistently win competitions with styles that are very difficult to brew--it is an almost obsessive attention to detail. Brewers of that caliber ANTICIPATE potential problems and correct them before they become a problem, the same way that one changes the oil in one's car BEFORE a problem occurs. I'm not trying to tell you or any one else how to brew, I was simply answering the question of how best to clean and sanitize a CF wort-chiller and to emphasize that cleaning and sanitizing are two distinct and seperate procedures. The procedures I've outlined are industry standards, and for good reason. Harlan. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:57:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott Murman <smurman at best.com> Subject: re: Scottish Ales > It is indeed true that there are very few "traditional" maltings left, > although intuition would suggest that very early (and now very much > historical) brews in Scotland were made using traditionally malted barley > - which undoubtedly would have used peat as a heat source..... > > Paul Campbell It's my impression that only the distilleries in the north(?) used peat, while in the south they used coals or wood or somesuch. This is what leads to the peat-smoked scotch being more prevalent in the north. Is this somehwat accurate? -SM- Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 12:01:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Bryan Gros <blgros at yahoo.com> Subject: homemade eisbock Steven Smith writes: > [put beer in 2l bottles, put in freezer, decant and enjoy] > >Enjoy, it's a dandy, albeit extravagant, beverage. If someone's figured out a >reasonable way to make _kegs_ of eisbock, please share. Well, Steve, Eisbocks are easy to make in the keg. Suppose, hypothetically, of course, one had a chest freezer as a beer fridge, with external controller. Supppose, one was cleaning it out and then replaced the kegs of pale ale, schwarzbier, and bock. Suppose, however, that one forgot to put the controller sensor back in the frige. If this scenario were to happen, the kegs would freeze. The next day you would have to take them out to thaw while you cleaned up the slush from the broken bottles. As they thawed, you could rack to a new keg. [Not that I have done this, but it was interesting that the eis-schwarzbier tasted better than the eis-bock and eis-PA.] === - Bryan Bryan Gros gros at bigfoot.com Oakland CA "To live your life it seems, is a waste without a dream..." - BoDeans __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 12:06:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Comstock <mccomstock at yahoo.com> Subject: Re: High gravity follies What a story Paul. Now I'll never put a valve on my kettle. It rips my back up, but the 'pick-up-the-kettle-and-dump technique is all I can stand. So what's the bid deal with a little crud. It's clean ain't it. Boiled the tar out of it for 90 minutes. Explain to me about all those trub problems we're trying to avoid with filters and chore-boys and siphoning out of the kettle and whirlpooling (in a 4 gallon kettle for crying out loud! You look at the kettle the wrong way and the lumps of crud shift around to your racking cane while siphoning). Matt in Cincinnati __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com Return to table of contents
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