---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  re: Starter Stirrer? (John_E_Schnupp)
  Cereal cooking conspiracy? (Paul Shick)
  Re: force-carbonating (Jeff Renner)
  Re: starter temps ("Alan Meeker")
  Homemade High-precision Thermometer ("Charles T. Major")
  Yeast, Media and Desity (Brad Miller)
  re:Convert Sankey to Corny? (MaltHound)
  Info on Sake (Jaxson28)
  yeast,malt no hops or water (Jim Liddil)
  Good Bye and Good Luck (Joe Rolfe)
  Re: Bohemian Pilsner (Part I) ("John W. Thomasson")
  Re: Bohemian Pilsner (Part II) ("John W. Thomasson")
  yeast and antibiotics ("Stephen .")
  Yeast starters, nutrient, etc. ("Sean Richens")
  Competition  Announcement ("Jim Hinken")
  Competition Announcement (again) ("Jim Hinken")
  cleaning  a calcified carboy ("Todd & Sherrel Crane")


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 01:09:07 -0700
From: John_E_Schnupp at amat.com
Subject: re: Starter Stirrer?

Phil asks me:

>John, can you elaborate on this 'stirrer'?  Did you make it etc...?

It's in the archives but that was some time ago.  It's a good thing
I save this stuff as it comes in handy everyone in a while.

The basic idea is to mount a magnet to a motor.  Have some sort of
speed control on the motor.  Build a stand to hold whatever vessel
you will use.  Drop in some sort of stir bar and you're all set.  You
may need to adjust the magnet to provide proper magnetic coupling.
Since there is no one was to do this I leave it as an exercise
I've built a few variations.  Mine have all been DC motors but I've
looked at a commercial one that used a variac to control the speed
of a small AC motor.

Here's what I origionally posted:

I would first like to thank those who responded with information about
stirring magnets and where to get them.  I now have several more neat
website bookmarks.  I opted not to purchase, instead, I successfully
constructed my own stirrer and it cost me $0.00 :-)  Here's my approach:

Stir bars:
Dave Burley suggested that I make my own stirring magnets by using a
nail in some sealed tubing, I opted for this approach.  I cut several
lengths using a nail that fit inside some teflon tubing.  I then sealed
the ends by melting them, be careful with this as it can be easy to catch
the tubing on fire.  I made 3/4", 1", 1.5" and 2" stirrers.  The nails
were from my workshop and the tubing was scraps obtained from work.  I
now had to figure out how get these little suckers to spin in an erlymer
flask.

Magnets:
I have some *very, very* strong magnets that I also got from work.  In
their former life they were used to couple a robot which is inside a
vacuum chamber to it's motor which is at atmospheric pressure.  The
little beasties are about 1" square and 1/4" thick.  I'm not sure of their
composition but I'll bet they are some rare earth ceramic type magnets.
Anyway, the stirrers I made were attracted to them in a big way, but how
do I get the magnet to spin.

Motor:
I considered several different ways of making the magnet spin.  Several
folks told me that 300-500 RPM was probably the minimum acceptable speed.
In order to have some sort of speed control, I decided that a DC motor was
the way to go.  I also wanted to be able to attach the magnet directly to
the motor shaft instead of having to use pulleys or gears.  Last week as I
was cleaning out my garage to make room for the car, I came across
something and the proverbial light bulb turned on, a muffin fan.  I am
quite a pack-rat and had several sizes and types.  I settled for one with
metal blades (steel I think, judging by the way the magnet was attracted
to it) and rated at 18 VDC.  I tested the fan without the magnet and found
that it worked down to about 10 VDC, below this and the fan would just
stall.  I centered the magnet on the hub and tried again.  The magnet
didn't seem effect the fan at all.  I made a case from some scrap wood
in my shop.  I found that the magnet needed to be fairly close to the
stirrer in order to maintain the magnetic coupling at high speeds.  I
constructed the case so that the bottom of the flask was slightly less than
1/8" away from the bottom of the erlymer flask.  To do this I cut a hole
in the center of a piece of 1/4" plywood (so the magnet can rotate) and
adjusted the height of the fan until I had the desired coupling.  A fan
with a plastic case will require attaching a magnet with some sort of
epoxy type glue.

Results:
This baby rips.  When I first tried it out I used a 1" stirrer.  It
actually stirred too much so I made a 3/4" stirrer which is much more to
my liking.  I found that about 12 VDC gave me a nice whirlpool with it's
vertex at the stirrer.  I know this isn't a lab quality device but for
the price (free for me, a few $$ if you need to buy one or more items)
you can't beat it.

John Schnupp, N3CNL
Dirty Laundry Brewery
Colchester, VT
95 XLH 1200



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Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:23:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: Paul Shick <SHICK at JCVAXA.jcu.edu>
Subject: Cereal cooking conspiracy?

 

Hello all,

	Well, I never thought that HBDers would be so vicious
or so well organized!  A week or so back, I posted about the
difficulties of lautering when using fine-ground corn meal as
an adjunct, and suggested that people use polenta or grits,
instead.  This Thursday and Friday I tried to buy these coarse
corn products at five different Cleveland area stores, with no
success.  Everyone in town was sold out of polenta and grits!
I was forced to go with Quaker finely ground corn meal, again, 
with the predicted lautering pain, when making a CAP (insert
cute brew name like ``Constipated CAP" here.)  The store managers
kept talking about problems with suppliers, but my guess is that
there's a huge conspiracy of HBDers systematically buying up all
of the polenta and grits in the country.  Either that, or lots
of folks are celebrating Fall by brewing CAPs.

	I did learn something positive from this latest fiasco,
which may be of use to others who use pumps on their mash/lauter
tuns.  When working with sticky adjuncts like corn meal, make sure 
that the outlet from the pump is completely submerged (either at 
the top of the M/L tun or in the kettle, if you're running off.)
That way, when the mash begins to set up, you can switch off the 
pump and the wort will flow back into the tun through the false bottom, 
refloating the mash. After a few seconds, things should flow more 
smoothly when you switch the pump back on.  If you're running off 
into the kettle when this happens, you might need to have the outlet 
well below the surface, to avoid sucking FWH hops into the works.

	Having the pump outlet submerged is good practice, in any
case, to avoid HSA, but using this as a "backflushing" technique
is something I haven't tried before.  I hope some find it useful
(but NOT the conspirators who bought up all the grits.)


   			Paul Shick 
 			Basement brewing in Cleveland Hts OH

 


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Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:35:35 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: force-carbonating

JPullum127 at aol.com writes:
>my friend just got a sparkler head to go with nitro/c02 mix. i need a rough
>idea of how long and at what pressure to force carb a 15 gallon keg to work

Since N2 is nearly insoluble, at least compared to CO2, I wouldn't use the
mix to force carbonate, but would rather use CO2.  It is of course
temperature dependent.  For 48F beer, I find that running the pressure up
to 30-40 psi and shaking on and off for maybe ten minutes, then gradually
reducing the pressure and continuing to shake, I can pretty well hit my
desired carbonation within 30 minutes.  I judge how quickly it dissolves at
lower pressures by the sound of the gas bubbling in.  The end point can be
hit fairly well with experience.  There are plenty of carbonation tables
available online and in print to get you to the carbonation you want.  You
then adjust the partial CO2 pressure of your mix to match the partial
pressure of the dissolved CO2 to keep a steady state.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 



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Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:42:34 -0400
From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: Re: starter temps

Kyle asks about growth temps for yeast starters:

> Anyone have a reference as to whether starter temperature is important?
In
> the same book, Fix suggests that the starter culture should be propagated
at
> the same temperature as the beer is fermented at.  I did see a post from
> several years ago that MB Raines suggests growing the starter at room
> temperature.  Seems to me that maximizing healthy cell counts is most
> important outcome for yeast starters, and this can best be achieved at
warmer
> temps. rather then cooler temps.

Many people believe that the starter should, by and large, be grown in
conditions
that mimic as closely as possible what they will be experiencing in the
actual wort.
Intuitively, this makes some sense as, in theory, they will be adapted to
the type of
environment they are soon to encounter in making your beer. For one thing,
this could
help to reduce lag times (less adaptation necessary early in the
fermentation) However, in
practice it probably doesn't work quite as well as one might expect because
most people
let their starters saturate and either flocculate out or encourage them to
do so by cooling.
This means that they have most recently been growing under conditions closer
to the ones
they will experience at the  /end/  of fermentation (low nutrients, higher
alcohol, low pH, etc..)
not the conditions they will be experiencing when you pitch them into the
fresh wort.  Note
that this will vary according to the specific details of your starter's
growth - for instance, if
you take pains to supply plenty of oxygen and are growing in a low glucose
media then the
yeast will not be making too much (if any) alcohol.

Temperature is a bit different than these other factors which will change as
the yeast grow
and will almost certainly also differ between the satrter they are coming
out of and the wort
they are going into. Temperature, if control is available, can be kept
identical in going from
starter to wort if so desired. Still, it may be beneficial to grow the
starter at a different
temperature than that at which you plan to ferment, at least up until the
late stages of starter growth.
Each yeast species/strain has its own optimal temperature for growth and,
since our main
goal in making a yeast starter is to generate sufficient yeast numbers in a
reasonable amount
of time, if we grow the starter at the optimal temp we will generate a
culture in the least amount
of time and, as a bonus, they will be at peak health.

Caution must be exercised however so that the temp doesn't get too high as
yeast health and viability
will be compromised. There is a subtle point here that should be borne in
mind - a dense culture of
actively growing yeast will generate heat on their own, a byproduct of all
that intense metabolic
activity. This means that if you are not careful the yeast can bump
themselves right over their optimal
growth temperature which could mean trouble. There was a paper awhile ago
published in one of the
brewing journals which showed some graphs of yeast viability as a function
of innoculation (pitch rate)
density for otherwise equivalent cultures. They saw a  /decreased/
viability for the very highest pitch
rates they looked at and had some (IMHO) questionable conclusions as to the
source of this
phenonmenon. What it really looks like is that they did not control for
temperature well enough and so
the likely cause of this vibility decrease was probably a metabolic-induced
temperature increase.

THE  SKINNY:  Many of the yeast we use (the ale yeast anyway) have growth
temperature optima in
the range of 30 degC or so, a temperature higher than many people's "room
temperature." If you are
interested in growing your starter as fast as possible then grow at the
optimal temperature, just be
careful they don't go over this temperature.  If you want the starter to be
temperature-matched to the
beer you are brewing then grow at the optimal temp during the early phase(s)
of  starter growth and
shift to your expected fermentation temperature later on.

 -Alan Meeker
Baltimore, MD




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Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:39:52 -0500 (Central Daylight Time)
From: "Charles T. Major" <ctmajor at samford.edu>
Subject: Homemade High-precision Thermometer

I just came across an interesting article in the March 1999 
_Scientific American._  The article provides instructions 
for building  a highly accurate ("within a few thousandths 
of a degree C") thermometer based on a platinum-coated 
ceramic resistance temperature detector for under $100.  
While it looks too delicate for regular brewday use (the 
temp. probe is constructed out of a ceramic rod inside a 
Pyrex tube), it might be very good  for thermometer 
calibration, for those of you interested in extreme 
accuracy.

Here is the full citation:
Carlson, Shawn. "The Amateur Scientist: A Homemade 
High-Precision Thermometer." _Scientific American._ 280.3 
(March 1999): 102-103.

Regards,
Tidmarsh Major
Birmingham, Alabama


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Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:24:09 -0800
From: Brad Miller <millerb at targen.com>
Subject: Yeast, Media and Desity

	With all of the recent talk about yeast and all that goes with it,
I thought it might be nice to share some data.  From Current Protocols in
Molecular Biology Vol.2:

	Basic Technicques of Yeast Genetics

	Yest cells grow well on a minimal media containing dextrose
(glucose) as a carbon source and salts which supply nitrogen, phosphorous
and trace metals.  Yeast grow grow more rapidly however in the presence of
protein and yeast cell extract hydrolysates, which provide amino acids,
nucleotide precursors, vitamins and other metabolites which the cell would
normally synthesize de novo.  During exponential or log phase growth, yeast
cells divide every 90 min when grown in such a media.  Log phase can be
divided into 3 stages based on rate of division which is a function of cell
density of the culture.  Early log phase is the period when cell densities
are >10^7 cell/mL.  Mid log is when cells are between 1 and 5E7 c/mL.  Late
log phase is when densities are between 5E7 and 2E8c/mL.  At a density of
2E8 c/mL, yeast cultures are soid to be saturated and the cells enter
stationary or Go phase.  (Interpritation:  What ever you do to make a
starter keep the seed train density between 1E7 and 2E8.  This way you are
always in the log phase of growth.)

	Media Prep  (For those who asked about yeast nutrients)

	Suppliers of components:  JT Baker, Difco, Sigma, PCR inc

	Rich medium YPD
Per liter:

10 g yeast extract,  20 g peptone,  20 g dextrose

Note:  For optimal growth, autoclave 20% dextrose (boil).  Sterile filter
other components.


Other things to note:

Grow at 30 C,  for aeration purposes media should be only 1/5 total flask
volume, try flat bottom tissue culture flasks for greater surface
area:volume ratio,  use a shaker or stirer.



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Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 13:49:50 EDT
From: MaltHound at aol.com
Subject: re:Convert Sankey to Corny?

In HBD 3146 Phil Sides wondered about 1/2 barrel kegs that have been 
converted to use corney fittings and lids.  I happened to have seen one just 
like this the other day at a nice HB shop in Nashua NH called "Jaspers".  I 
think the unit was manufactured by Sabco because it was displayed right next 
to a Sabco mash-tun (also a converted 1/2 barrel).  

In any case, I'm sure that Geoff or Lindy the proprietors of Jasper's would 
gladly lt you know all about them.  Just tell them I sent you...  No 
affilliation, just a happy customer.

Jasper's is at 4 Temple Street in Nashua, NH   Phone  603-881-3052

Regards,
Fred Wills


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Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 17:48:07 EDT
From: Jaxson28 at aol.com
Subject: Info on Sake

I'm interested in brewing sake for a close friend who loves the stuff. Does 
anyone know of a recipe or direct me to where I can find information on 
brewing sake?

Thanks 


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Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:32:36 -0400
From: Jim Liddil <jliddil at vms.arizona.edu>
Subject: yeast,malt no hops or water

Steve A wrote:

> You should really examine information on chemostat and 
> bioreactor
> design.  Jim Liddel(the Idi Amin of HBD ?) mentioned the 
> chemostat
> before the crash - but I am afraid he left the 
> impression that it was
> a designed for optimal growth.  It was not.  It was 
> designed to study

I think Omar Qhadafi (sp?) might be better.  And the spelling is LIDDIL.
Watch out for the letter in the mail impregnated with DMSO and Ricin.

I looked on the web at the companies that sell such devices and they call
them Chemostat bioreactors.  One and the same in this day and age.  You can
use it to study or produce.  My point was that you could rig one and use YM
broth to gorw yeast.  YM has glucose but also has malt extract.  Or one
could use wort. 

Lynn wrote:

> The Czech Moravian malt, which I have imported for the past 2 years, is
> indeed well-modified.
> Kolbach > 42.  Malt specs are on our web page (now linked from grain
> page).

First off let me say I spent a fair amount of money at St Pat's over the
years and have found the Czech malt to work well.  shipping to CT si going
to be a killer.  Are the sheets on the site for the current lot you have in
stock?


Folks might want to check the HBD archives for a discussion that myself,
Steve A , George Depiro and others ahd about malt modification last year or
so.  Kilbach index while and indicator of modification does not tell the
whole story.  One must look at the complete analysis.  And remember that
these numbers are a statistical average.  Maltsters blend malt to get a
good number.  All maltsters blend to achieve the numbers the customers
want.  So look at all the parameters and do not just worry about kolbach.
It is great that all the info is there.  Ask yourself, why are 2 out of
every 100 kernels moldy and is this a normal value as compared to other
brands. What is the Enzyme level?  

In my opinion you would be wise to also archive the yeast with someone like
the ATCC (atcc.org).  What sort of redundant LN2 delivery system does
wyeast have.  do they have backup power for the -80 C freezers? And for
those intersted check out the ATCC catalog and search on wyeast and see
where they have their 'backups'.  

Jim Liddil   



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Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:51:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: Joe Rolfe <onbc at shore.net>
Subject: Good Bye and Good Luck

I am going to take a break from anything relating to brewing
until my shrink judges me sane enuff to even rethink brewing. 

Ever since the loss of our brewery and nearly our house,
the s**t has hit the fan...In order to put the 5 yrs or so 
my wife and I put in to the brewery behind me in particular
the only way to do so is to get away from the topic.

As I look as most of the posts here over the years, most 
really had little to do with "normal homebrewing". I was
always slanted tword the commercial end. Somethings
homebrewers do amaze me (both ways)...but hell it is 
supposed to be a hobby...it never was for me...

Anyway if anything I said was helpful, great. If topics
I mention had no bearing on what you do - I am sorry
for clogging the list. If I pissed anyone off, even Gump..
I am sorry for those occassions also. 

 wish you all the best of luck and brewing,

Later,

Joe Rolfe


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Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:54:28 -0500
From: "John W. Thomasson" <jwtjr999 at flash.net>
Subject: Re: Bohemian Pilsner (Part I)

Thanks to everyone who either posted or responded privately to my post
in HBD #3142, same subject.  Because this seemed to generate some
interest, I decided to summarize the responses and what I ended up
doing.  I brewed this beer Saturday, 10.16.99.  The session went very
well.  I believe this will be fair representation of the style, although
I probably won't send a bottle to Dr. Pivo with a note saying, "cry your
eyes out, pal".

My main concerns were yeast management, water treatment and proper body
in the finished beer.  There was a general consensus that my basic
recipe and procedure were OK.

Mark Bayer suggested that I get in touch with Dr. Pivo for advice on
fermentation temperatures, so I did.  I received a most informative
response the following day.  He uses Huerlimann's yeast for this style
(which I am unfamiliar with) and a 8C-4C-6C ferm temp schedule, which in
his experience results in production of appropriate levels of diacetyl
for the style.  I don't know how this ferm temp schedule will work with
Wyeast #2278, but I guess I'll find out.  I'll lager at 0C for 8 weeks.

Ken Schwartz has a recipe for a Pils type profile water in his article
"Water Chemistry Primer for Brewers" available on his website:
http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer/water/wcprimer.html
In response to my inquiry on how to reliably measure such small
quantities of salts for addition to distilled water, Ken recommended an
inexpensive scale which can be found at: 
http://www.edmundscientific.com/Products/DisplayProduct.cfm?productid=777

Until I can get one of these little scales, I decided to follow Marc
Sedam's suggestion to simply add a half gallon of my own water (which
has lots of everything) to 10 gallons of distilled water.  Dr. Pivo
suggested that I do a mini mash with a cupful of malt and measure the
pH.  With small incremental additions of calcium chloride to the total
volume of mash water, I was able to get the pH of the mini mash to
stabilize at 5.4.

To prevent over attenuation and lack of body in the finished beer, I
considered adding some Cara-Pils.  In my experience, anything less than
a couple of pounds wouldn't boost the FG enough to matter and would
alter the malt character I was seeking.  So, I omitted the 140F rest,
planned to mash in at 158F and increased the malt charge by a half pound
to a total of 9.5#.  I'm betting that the FG will end up about
1.012-13.  A little lower than I'd like, but hopefully not so low as to
be considered a defect.

Many, including Dr. Pivo, recommended an EOB hop addition.  I really
didn't want to exceed a total of 4 oz. because I've experienced haze and
astringency problems in the past from doing so.  As a compromise, I
decided to FWH with 2.75 oz. Saaz and add 1 oz. at EOB, relying on the
FWH for flavor.  I know this is somewhat controversial, but I always get
hop flavor from FWH, even with no late kettle additions.  Lynne O'Connor
pointed out that FWH'ing is not done in Czech breweries, but goes on to
say that doesn't necessarily make it inappropriate to do so.  I'm not
planning to dry hop this brew.

Lynne also mentioned that the Kolbach index on the Moravian malt she
imports is >42, which indicates full modification.  I did obtain my malt
from St. Pat's, 100# of it in fact.  I had the spec sheet before I
bought the malt, so I ruled out a P rest early on.  I have to say this
stuff is the best malt I've used.  I wanted 100# of the Moravian light
Munich as well, but they were out of stock at the time.



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Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:55:42 -0500
From: "John W. Thomasson" <jwtjr999 at flash.net>
Subject: Re: Bohemian Pilsner (Part II)

I stepped up a standard Wyeast #2278 smack pack 4 times to 2 gallons,
aerating with O2 between each step.  The yeast was fresh, so the wort
additions were made about 24 hours apart.  I allowed the final addition
to ferment to completion, then refrigerated to encourage the yeast to
settle.  I decanted the spent wort and pitched only the slurry, which is
my normal procedure.  My revised recipe:

9.5# Czech Moravian Pils
Single Decoction mash
  90'  at  158F
  10'  at  168F
2.75 oz. Czech Saaz FWH (3.6% AA)
1.00 oz. Czech Saaz EOB (3.0% AA)

OG:  1.056 (actual)
FG:  1.015 (pipe dream)
IBU: 45 (ProMash)
SRM: 3.6 (ProMash)

I undershot the mash in temp by 4 degrees and decided to live with 154F
since I was mashing in my Gott.  After 20 minutes, I pulled nearly half
of the thickest part of the mash, brought it to a boil in 15 minutes and
boiled for 30.  I cooled the decoction before returning it to the main
mash by stirring in ice cubes made from prepared mash liquor.  Some
darkening of the boiled mash was evident when it was returned to the
main mash.  The cooled decoction and the remainder of the mash
stabilized at 158F, which I let rest for 30 minutes.  The runnings were
crystal clear after recirculating a quart.  I sparged with 6 gallons of
liquor acidified to pH 6.0 with 88% lactic acid.

I collected 7.5 gallons of wort, boiled for 75 minutes and force cooled
to 65F in 12 minutes with a 2 stage immersion chiller.  After
whirlpooling and allowing the wort to settle for an hour, I collected
5.25 gallons of clear wort in the fermenter leaving 3 quarts in the
kettle, which I'll recycle for starters.  I pitched ~8 oz. of thick
yeast slurry and aerated 2 minutes with O2 and an hour with air.  Lag
time after pitching the yeast was only 2 hours; fermentation has been
vigorous for 48 hours now.

I'll have to see how this batch turns out to know exactly what I'll do
differently next time.  I'll probably try the pale lager water recipe
and will definitely mash in hotter, maybe low 160s.  I'll adjust the hop
schedule according to what kind of hop character the finished beer has. 
I'd like to find a little higher alpha Saaz.

Can anyone recommend a decent commercial example of this style, maybe a
domestic microbrew?  All the PU I've bought has been in pathetic
condition.
 
Thanks again to everyone who contributed.  I'll post a short follow up
in about 12 weeks after I've had a taste.


Cheers!

John Thomasson
The Seven Bucket Brewery
Aledo, Texas


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Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 03:40:28 GMT
From: "Stephen ." <sn55 at hotmail.com>
Subject: yeast and antibiotics

In a few years of reading HBD on and off I have seen many a mention of 
bacterial contamination of cultures but no advice on how to clean them up at 
the culturing stage using antibiotics.

I dont work with yeast but there must be antibacterial antibiotics that are 
tolerated by yeast and which can be used to clean up cultures.

I am not suggesting anything in case it is illegal where you hail from , but 
when I was a student the lab used to buy some of our antibiotics as capsules 
the same as those normally prescribed by a medical practitioner.  Based on 
the concentration of active ingredient listed on the label we then just 
diluted in sterile water to an appropriate concentration.  Some antibiotics 
such as tetracycline need to be dissolved in a small amount of another 
solvent such as ethanol before further diluting in the sterile water.  A 
quick look in Merck Index will tell you which will dissolve and which will 
not.

Does anybody have any information to add?


Stephen Neate
Adelaide, Australia

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Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:49:29 -0500
From: "Sean Richens" <srichens at sprint.ca>
Subject: Yeast starters, nutrient, etc.

Yeast nutrient costs $0.75-$1 for 5 g.  Buy a packet of dry yeast and boil
it with the malt extract.  Debittered brewer's yeast at the hippie food
store is cheaper and will also do.

The key parameter missing in all of these posts on step sizes is the stage
of fermentation.  I do a pretty steep step-up, but I do my best to time it
for high krausen in the starter.  There is a significant, but not serious,
difference if you let the yeast settle out.  If you've done the calcs I
believe you, but I suspect the 4X-8X ratio reflects commercial practice
when re-pitching.  The yeast are somewhat dormant and have to restart their
metabolism before going aerobic and reproducing, compared to yeast that are
budding like crazy.

Kyle should read Steve Alexander's post in hbd #3147 about glucose, table
sugar etc.  Sure, kit instructions say to use glucose and many years ago I
thought it worked OK, but if you're stepping up you risk extending the lag
phase by letting your yeast get used to glucose.  It costs a bug a lot of
energy to produce enzymes and since the yeast needs hexokinase (glucose
enzyme #1) anyway, it will drop the enzymes necessary for importing and
hydrolysing maltose in a second if it can get away with it.

If you want to save a few pennies, make an extra litre or two of wort when
mashing in your next beer, and can it off from the boiler before chilling
and pitching.  At least then you're paying grain prices instead of DME
prices.  LME is about 2/3 the price in my area if you figure out the water
content, you could use that.  I just figure that a yeast starter is
amortized over three or more batches, so I never worry about it.

My step up method - smack pack into 1 L, that goes straight into 23 L (6
USG).  Starts about 12 hours more slowly that totally optimal pitching.  If
I do trub removal I will repitch primary yeast, secondary yeast works fine
also, even after 1 month in the case of lagers - goes off like a bomb at
50*F.


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Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:32:39 -0700
From: "Jim Hinken" <jhinken at accessone.com>
Subject: Competition  Announcement

Entries from all American Homebrewers Association style categories,
including cider and mead, are now being accepted  for the Brews Brothers
Novembeerfest.  Three bottles are required for each entry.  The entry fee is
U.S.$5 per entry.  The standard AHA entry form and bottle labels may be used
or contact Rick Star or Jim Hinken and entry forms will be sent by fax or
e-mail.  Entries will be accepted through October 31, 1998.  Judging will be
Saturday, November 6  at Larry's Homebrewing Supply, 7405 S. 212th St. #103,
Kent, WA 98032.  Entries may be shipped to

Rick Star
7640 NE 123rd St.
Kirkland WA 98034
(425) 821-9388
we_stars at msn.com

Entries may also be dropped off at:

Larry's Homebrewing Supply, 7405 S. 212th St. #103,Kent, WA 98032,
206-872-6846
Evergreen Brewing Supply, 12121 N.E. Northup Way, Suite 210, Bellevue, WA
98005, 206-882-9929
Cascade Brewing Supplies, 224 Puyallup Ave., Tacoma, WA 98421, 253-383-8980

This year's sponsors include:

Bear Creek Brewing
Beer Essentials
Big Time Brewery and Alehouse
Bob's Homebrew Supply
Bottleworks
Cascade Homebrew Supply
Elysian Brewing Company
Evergreen Brewing Supply
Larry's Homebrew Supply
Olde Towne Ale House
Pacific Crest Brewery
Puterbaugh Farms
Stumbling Monk
Snoqualmie Falls Brewing Company

Jim Hinken
jhinken at accessone.com






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Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:43:18 -0700
From: "Jim Hinken" <jhinken at accessone.com>
Subject: Competition Announcement (again)

I should proof read before I post.  In the previous post, the entry deadline
for the Brews Brothers Novembeerfest was Oct. 31, 1998.  It should be Oct.
31, 1999.

Jim Hinken


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Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 23:02:20 -0700
From: "Todd & Sherrel Crane" <thecranes at uswest.net>
Subject: cleaning  a calcified carboy

Hello all,
I have a quick question. I recently acquired a 6 1/2g carboy, that is in
dire need of a good cleaning. It has a nice white film that covers it, I am
under the impression it was left outside for a long  time. I have soaked it
with a heavy bleach/water mix, that didn't work. Then I tried using C.L.R.,
also to no avail. The last thing I tried was a Double Alkaline beer line
cleaner, That also didn't work.

Now for my questions.1) is it going to be clean enough to use? 2) if so will
it produce off flavors, and if so what should I expect? 3) What else should
I try to clean it with?
thanks for the help
Todd A. Crane
thecranes at uswest.net


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