---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Re: Cleaning new 3 tier brewery (phil sides jr)
  RE: The Flavor ("Campbell, Paul R SSI-TSEA-A")
  Hop replanting. ("Mike Pensinger")
  Boiling in Erlenmeyers ("Mark Nelson")
  Re: Overwintering Hops (Jeff Renner)
  POBS 2 Preview? (Biergiek)
  bizarre temps, caramel flavors, etc... ("Alan Meeker")
  Re: Don't Dry Hop with Pellets!! (Matthew Arnold)
  Sulfide in water (MAB)
  Re: Cleaning 3 Tier brewery (Rob Dewhirst)
  Bert Grant's IPA? ("Spevjo")
  Bottle Requirements For HBC's, Continued ("Thomas O'Connor")
  Poor man's Gram Stain ("Rich, Charles")
  Dry Hopping With Pellets (CLOAKSTONE)
  using a jug w/ a stir plate (John_E_Schnupp)
  RIMS thermocouple ("Doug Moyer")
  Polyclar use ("Fred Ogline")
  Sulphur in water ("Sean Richens")
  Sapporo Soybeans ("bryan bonser")


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 00:51:01 -0400
From: phil sides jr <psides at carl.net>
Subject: Re: Cleaning new 3 tier brewery

Ken Smith writes:

>I recently completed a 3 tier system based on Sanke kegs.  The question
is
>this...  How do I clean this system before I use it?  Is recirculating
with a
>hot solution of B Brite enough?  I have heard of also boiling with
vinegar.
>Piping is hard copper and valves are brass.  Kegs are of course kind of
nasty
>looking stainless.  Ideas would be appreciated.

I don't think B Brite has the guts to do your initial acid cleaning.
Vinegar is really well suited for the job.  You are looking for a weak
acid cleaning.  When I first built mine, I put a gallon of white vinegar
in each of my kegs with about 12 gallons of water and let them all boil
for about two hours.  It worked perfectly.

These days, I am a giant fan of 5 Star PBW (you know the line) and I am
thinking a nice soak with that might work even better.  It is FAR more
expensive than vinegar and the little bit of propane you will blow off
though ;-)  The thing about PBW though is that it cleans stainless to
the point that it virtually looks like chrome with no scrubbing.  I have
an interesting story about its cleaning ability; email me privately if
you would like to hear it.

Phil Sides Jr.
Concord, NH
- --
Macht nicht o'zapft ist, Prost!



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Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:04:50 +0200
From: "Campbell, Paul R SSI-TSEA-A" <Paul.R.Campbell at is.shell.com>
Subject: RE: The Flavor

>Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 20:40:57 -0400
>From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu>
>Subject: Re: The Flavor 

>I can't help but wonder if an appropriate level of diacetyl
>contributes to the perceived "caramel" flavor.  You don't mention
>diacetyl flavor (butterscotch to butter, depending on the
>concentration) at all, but I would be very surprised if there was none
>in a classic English ale.

In "An Analysis of Brewing Techniques" under "Evaluating Flavor" George
provides
a set of intensity levels for an English-style extra special bitter
according
to the Meilgaard system. This seems to correspond with how I would describe
Fuller's ESB, and yes diacetyl is present over a significant range. I'm not
sure I'm experienced enough (taste wise) to pin the caramel flavour solely
to this though; what I think is diacetyl could well be something else
entirely..... I would be interested in an experienced diacetyl taster's
opinion on whether FESB is in the high or low range for this flavour
component.

My inexperienced perception is that the "Fullers Flavour" is slightly
more intense in the bottled (filtered) product than in the cask. Of course
the alcohol content of the former is higher than the latter, as is the
carbonation. Does diacetyl degrade in the cask (in the continued presence
of yeasties)? 

I think it is safe to eliminate the alcohol content and use of Goldings
whole hops from the equation. London Pride exibits this same caramel
flavour as well (I've never tried the Chiswick Bitter). Does anyone
have any evidence that the Fuller's yeast (i.e. not the Wyeast 1968
strain) is a big diacetyl producer? If so, Spencer is probably on to
something.....

I feel that further taste tests are required to further analyse this ;^)

Regards,
Paul Campbell 
Aberdeen


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Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 18:35:00 -0400
From: "Mike Pensinger" <beermaker at home.com>
Subject: Hop replanting.

We just recently bought a new house and I have a Fuggles first year plant
that did very well and want to move it to the new house.  Can I just dig it
up carefully and move it to the new house.  Should I did a hole and cover it
with dirt and mulch/leaves and water it well?  What do you all think?

Mike Pensinger
beermaker at home.com


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Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 08:49:22 -0400
From: "Mark Nelson" <menelson at mindspring.com>
Subject: Boiling in Erlenmeyers

Dave asks about preventing boilovers when prepping starters in Erlenmeyers.

My procedure is to microwave my starters in a 1L Erlenmeyers.  I'll cover
the top with plastic wrap which seems to create a little bit of back
pressure.  The back pressure in turn seems to keep the bubbling and boiling
over in check.  The same setup may work with an Erlenmeyer in a water bath,
or perhaps with direct heat, but YMMV.

Mark Nelson
Atlanta GA


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Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:11:47 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Overwintering Hops

"Luke Van Santen" <Luke.VanSanten at dot.state.mn.us> wrote

>Took the hops down the other day and had a question - when they say to
>take the hops down to the crown when overwintering, do they mean ground
>surface, below ground surface, etc. Or can you just put a lot of mulch
>over them and not worry?

Geez, maybe I don't worry enough, but I just cut my Cascade hops off
somewhere near the ground and they always come back next year.  Mulch?
Well, some years I dump the spent grains from a few brews on the hill.  I
figure there are some good nutrients there.  [Years ago Dave Sapsis warned
not to put spent grains on hop beds because they were too "hot," but I
figure that after the growning season, the grains will break down by next
spring.]  Sometimes they just have to overwinter bare.  While our winters
here aren't quite as cold as Minnesota ones, we get below zero pretty
regularly and it works.  Things have to be able to survive some benign
neglect around here to make it.  Plants, anyway.  Dogs and kids get more
attention.  Anyway, I'd vote to just mulch for Minnesota and not worry
beyond that.  Everything down to the crown seems to die back anyway.

Pat Babcock jumped ahead in line ;-) and added:

>Not removing the bines and
>allowing the next generation to grow over them makes for a rather
>unmanageable mess come harvest time.

That could also expose the hops to overwintering disease.  It's definitely
a good idea to dispose of the old bines at a distance.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 



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Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:31:20 EDT
From: Biergiek at aol.com
Subject: POBS 2 Preview?

>Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:56:29 -0600From: hal <hwarrick at springnet1.com>
>Subject: Book: Principles of Brewing Science 2

Anyone have a preview for this book?  Is it that much differnent that POBS 1? 
 I don't mind so much, but it is Fred Garvin that really gets ticked when he 
buys a revised book he already owns and the only change is the printing date 
and the cover.  I won't even get into what Phil or Morkey do when this 
happens.  Come to think of it, this is about the time George Fix should pop 
into the HBD with a post... his posts seem to be favorably timed with the 
release dates of his new publications.  I wonder if he learned these 
marketing strategies from Schmidling?

Kyle


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Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:43:05 -0400
From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: bizarre temps, caramel flavors, etc...


> Subject: Mystery Mash Temps
>
> I've been experimenting with partial grain mashes (~ 5 lbs. of grain) in
my
> last couple batches and have noticed a strange phenomenon. When the mash
> reaches an optimal temperature between 150-160 degrees F, it will hold
this
> temp (absolutely rock steady +/- <  1 degree) with no added heat for over
an
> hour with the pot sitting on a cold countertop. When I added small amounts
> of cold water to thin the mixture a little, the temp dropped briefly and
> returned to its original level. This does not make thermodynamic sense
> unless the enzymatic reactions are generating their own heat. For you all
> with the biochemistry background, are these reactions exothermic?

Barring some VERY improbable statistical fluctuations, and assuming you are
working within the same universre I  am, I'd say what you are seeing is
simply a local cooling effect (transient small temp decrease) followed by
mixing/homogenization which causes the observed return to the initial temp.

Otherwise it may be that Pons and Fleishmann were right after all!
        ******
> From: "John Palmer" <jjpalmer at gte.net>
> Subject: Don't Dry Hop with Pellets!!
>
> It was a good question from the theoretical side, but honestly, don't dry
> hop with pellets, even in a hop bag. The hop powder goes thru the bag and
> never drops out of suspension. I tried it once and had to fine with
> Isinglass to get it to drop clear enough to drink.
> John

On the other hand, I've dry-hopped with pellets several times and obtained
clear beer in the end... FWIW.
        *******
> Regarding boiling in Erlenmeyers... how do you guys manage to control the
> boil?  The one time I tried it, I got periodic explosions of bubbles/foam
> instead of  a steady boil.  This caused boil-over problems that I could
not
> prevent.  I'm assuming that the reason for this was the very smooth bottom
> of the flask not providing enough nucleation sites for bubbles.  How do
you
> add boiling stones without disrupting the stir bar, though?
>
> Any comments are appreciated,
> Dave Riedel

Dave, it's been my experience that the stir bar itself can serve in place of
boiling stones. Rough it up a bit and see if it works for you....
        *********

> From: larry land <lland at startext.net>
> Subject: Caramel flavor AND bottle styles for competition
>
> I, too, crave the caramel flavor for some of my recipies, but have not
> perfected it as of late. My question concerns a product I found on the
> shelf of the local homebrew shop, named Caramalt

How about just throwing in a bag of Kraft caramels into the boil??  ;)

 -Alan Meeker
Baltimore, MD



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Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 15:20:23 GMT
From: revmra at iname.com (Matthew Arnold)
Subject: Re: Don't Dry Hop with Pellets!!

On Wed, 27 Oct 1999 00:15:21 -0400, you wrote:

>It was a good question from the theoretical side, but honestly, don't dry
>hop with pellets, even in a hop bag. The hop powder goes thru the bag and
>never drops out of suspension. I tried it once and had to fine with
>Isinglass to get it to drop clear enough to drink.

I've dry hopped several (about 5?) times with pellets and only once had to fine
the beer (with gelatin), but that one was hazy going into the secondary anyway.
I've actually noticed far worse hop-related haze by doing large knock-out
additions than with pellet dry hopping. It's also a practical issue for me
because whole hops are not readily available in many varieties around here.

To each their own, but I don't have a problem with it.
  Matt
- -----
Webmaster, Green Bay Rackers Homebrewers' Club


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Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:26:16 -0400
From: MAB <mabrooks at erols.com>
Subject: Sulfide in water

Is there a simple way to remove the sulphur pre or post
filtering?  Sulphur pasta anyone?

 -SM-

Scott,

As an avid backpacker,  I have dipped from numerous different source
waters, and so far have not had the misfortune of having to deal with
the dreaded Sulfur smell!!

In general (but not always), this is caused by sulfur reducing bacteria
and can be overcome by oxidation of the source water.  There are
numerous oxidants that will oxidize sulfide to sulfate but many of these
may impact the water as well (not to mention that high levels of sulfate
can have a laxative effect!!).  Oxidants of choice would
include.....Chlorine and Iodine (as well as others not so readily
available), and of course good old "Air" (20 percent Oxygen).  The first
two oxidants listed are very effective, however, they will also leave a
residual taste in the water....the last method of oxidation/stripping
with air will work but is a slow process and requires a bit of effort
(read shaking vigorously).  Since alot of the apparent taste of sulfide
is associated with the smell you can try holding your nose when you
drink the water (Seriously).  You can try Iodine tabs (available in most
any outdoor store) these will also protect you from any viruses that may
be present on the water.  Just treat with Iodine and let sit for the
recommended time, then mix with powdered Gatorade.  This works amazingly
well, also, some water filters have an Iodine cartridge available for
virus removel, these may work as well).  As for cooking food, you could
try shaking the water vigorously for a few minutes, this may work well
enough for cooking (use alot of seasoning?).

Of course you could always pack in a couple of gallons...lets see at
8.34 lbs. per gallon...that comes to.......ever considered a pack
animal?  Sometimes you gotta pay a price for enjoying the great
outdoors.

Good luck.

Matt B.
Northern VA.


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Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:15:23 -0500
From: Rob Dewhirst <robd at biocomplexity.nhm.ukans.edu>
Subject: Re: Cleaning 3 Tier brewery

At 12:20 AM 10/27/99 -0400, you wrote:


>I recently completed a 3 tier system based on Sanke kegs.  The question is
>this...

I strongly recommend a pressure washer.  It will make your brewing life so 
much easier.  You can clean most things in your brewery with it, corny 
kegs, the car that carries the corny kegs, etc..  I had the plumber run a 
hot water tap into my brewery (others keep referring to it as my garage, 
don't know why) and I can generate this nice vapor cloud down the street on 
brew day in the winter.

>How do I clean this system before I use it?  Is recirculating with a
>hot solution of B Brite enough?  I have heard of also boiling with vinegar.


I "brewed" a few batches of water and b-brite to test my system when I 
first built it.  That seemed to work fine.

>Piping is hard copper and valves are brass.

Can't help you here.  I use flexible tubing so I can see if it's clean.

Have you de-leaded the brass?

>Kegs are of course kind of nasty
>looking stainless.  Ideas would be appreciated.

When I've had to clean up nasty stainless things, I've used something 
called "Barkeepers helper".  It's basically Comet with oxalic acid, which I 
believe is the active ingredient in oven cleaner.

But really, nothing beats 1500 PSI. :)


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Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:34:03 -0700
From: "Spevjo" <spevjo at hotmail.com>
Subject: Bert Grant's IPA?

Heya,
    I've gotten a request to try and make a Bert Grant's IPA clone for some
friends...looking for a good approximation. I went back a few years in the
digest and found some other brewers who were apparently interested, but no
recipes posted. Does anyone have a good version (pref. all-grain) that they
would be willing to share? Or some suggestions for formulating a copy?
Private emails are great...

    Thanks,
        Spevjo


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Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:24:13 -0400
From: "Thomas O'Connor" <toconnor at nehealth.org>
Subject: Bottle Requirements For HBC's, Continued

Dear Collective,

I read with interest the brief point/counterpoint that has been posted 
regarding bottle size requirements for homebrew competitions.  Thus, my 
$0.02 worth:

I've been organizing HBC's for several years now, from the height of the 
hobby's popularity, to its current level of waning interest.  While the 
argument for uniformity of bottle size is appealing, its justification 
lies only in the aesthetic appearance of stacked beer cases...  Don't you 
think we can do a bit better?  People enter these (our) homebrew 
competitions to get their beer judged, to improve as brewers based on the 
authoritative feedback, and maybe to win some goodies, 
 if not glory and honour.  They also pay, often, an excessive fee for that 
priviledge.  We've all seen entry fees set up to $11 per entry, although, 
admittedly, most are in the $5-6 range.  My point being, the brewers give 
us, with their beloved homebrews and money, much more than they receive, 
as a rule.  Furthermore, with the decline in competition entry numbers and 
waning enthusiasm out there for the hobby in general, we should be in the 
business of making people happy.  Refusal of their beers based on bottle 
dimension is, frankly, insensitive and lame.  It's the beer we should be 
judging, not the bottle.  I've organized competitions at country fairs in 
Maine, and I've always been delighted to get ANY entry--I don't care if it 
comes in a rubber boot.  My appeal to those that organize homebrew 
competitions would be, be flexible!  A few odd bottles can go in a 
separate box with no real deterioration of the human condition.  " I have 
a dream... where my four beers will one day live in a nation where they 
will not be judged by the color (and shape) of their bottle, but by the 
content of their character." (sic) MLK forgive me. 

Tom O'Connor M.D.
Rockport, Maine

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Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 15:08:19 -0700
From: "Rich, Charles" <CRich at filenet.com>
Subject: Poor man's Gram Stain

Hi all,

The Gram stain technique divides bacteria into two camps, gram-positive and
gram-negative depending on their color after staining, and helps in figuring
out what kind of bugs are in your beer.  It also renders all the biota in a
slurry sample visible which makes microscopic inspection easier.

After getting a Difco Gram Stain Kit for my microscope and monkeying around
I think I've hit on a reasonable facsimile of the technique, made from
common goods, that will work for the homebrewer.  Gram stain's Crystal
Violet is the same as drugstore Gentian Violet just a little more
concentrated, likewise the Iodine mordant is stronger too.  The kit uses
acetone+ethyl alcohol for the decolorizer but straight ethanol is also often
used for the decolorizer.  Replacing Safranin, the counterstain which makes
the uncolored gram-negative organisms visible, was a stretch but red food
coloring actually worked pretty well.

I started with a vial of mixed gram-negative and gram-positive organisms so
I could see both sides of the test.  Yeast are gram positive so that was
easy.  I also found a reeking sample of bad wort which turned out to be full
of gram-negative bodies.  The slightly nutty, vomit/baby-diaper odor, makes
me suspect Megasphera, a butyric and caproic acid producer.

I prepared and stained several slides using the Difco Gram stain kit and the
bacteria-rich culture, yeast only and then the mix of both and started
getting pretty good results after the first two or three tries.  Then I
started substituting common goods to find what gave the same results.  Using
drugstore Gentian Violet, Iodophor (straight), hardware store Denatured
Alcohol (used for shellac etc) and red food coloring (FDA Red Dye #3), here
is what I came up with:

Make a smear of your sample on a glass microscope slide and let air dry.
Pass the slide over a flame a couple of times to just warm it and afix the
cells to the glass.

1) Flood slide with Gentian Violet and let stand for three minutes.
2) Rinse gently with water.
3) Flood slide with straight Iodophor and let stand for three minutes.
4) Rinse gently with water.
5) Drip decolorizer (hardware store Denatured Alcohol) over slide until it
flows clear.
6) Rinse gently with water
7) Flood slide with red food coloring and let stand for 30 seconds.
8) Rise gently with water 
9) Blot from edges and then air dry slide (wave it in the air)

Longer contact time with the stains makes up for the drugstore goods being
less concentrated than the standard stains.  The main part of the technique,
staining and decolorizing gram-postivie organisms (steps 1-6), gives results
bang-on-exactly like the official gram stain.  Using red food coloring
instead of safranin isn't quite as good but works.  Safranin gives a
distinct pink where food coloring gave a slightly bluer pink which could be
confused with purple on very small bodies.  I'll keep my eye out for a
better safranin replacement but meanwhile this gets you pretty much there.
I ordered my kit from VWR Scientific for about $35. Gentian Violet (found
next to Iodine in the drugstore) costs about $3.  You probably have the rest
laying around.

Good luck,
Charles Rich, "A microscope without stains is like a TV set without an
antenna"

BTW: Denatured alcohol contains methanol which can be absorbed through the
skin. It's a good idea to minimize your contact with it by using gloves or


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Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 18:37:12 EDT
From: CLOAKSTONE at aol.com
Subject: Dry Hopping With Pellets

I must disagree with John Palmer on this one, as I always dry hop with 
pellets and experience none of the problems he describes.  The key, at least 
in my experience,  is as follows:

(1) Dry hop at the end of primary, when fermentation activity is, by all 
accounts, done or nearly done.  Doing it earlier will mean that the millions 
of nucleation sites in solution (as is the case with pellets) are bonded 
interminably to the CO2 generated during the main phase of fermentation.

(2) dry hop for two days, at most.  I know that many books recommend longer, 
but in my experience the longer time generates an unduly harsh, bitter, and 
unpleasantly vegetable- or grassy-like, quality.  The two days, using 
pellets, will allow plenty of oil utilization and thus hop character to come 
through.

(3) at the end of the second full day of dry-hopping, crash cool the beer to 
near freezing (e.g., 30F).  Allow to cool for 24 hours.  You may wish to do a 
diacetyl test prior to cooling:  To ensure the yeast has reduced the level of 
diacetyl to a minimum, draw a sample of the beer, and heat it to "tea" 
temperature - approximately 170-180F.  Any whiff of butter or butterscotch 
will indicate diacetyl is still in solution, and you may wish to allow 
another day for the yeast to reduce it prior to "crashing" the beer.

(4) Transfer at the end of this period and continue to cool for as long as 
you wish (or as long as your palate can hold out - ideallly, a couple of 
weeks, though 5 days has always proven sufficient to me).  If you do not 
rouse the vessel during this "second" transfer, you will most likely leave 
behind the dry hops and dormant yeast.  The cooling of the previous 24 hours 
most likely causes a nexus between the hop pellet particles and precipitated 
protein complexes, and consequently they drop out.

Cheers!



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Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 15:47:34 -0700
From: John_E_Schnupp at amat.com
Subject: using a jug w/ a stir plate

>>Dave, you are correct. A magnetic stirrer won't work if you are using a
>>cider jug with a concave bottom. I use 2L Erlenmeyer flasks. Besides
>compatibility with a stirrer, another advantage to lab flasks, at least

>I have managed to use my magnetic stirrer in the bottom of a 'cider' jug,

The key point it getting the magnet close enough to the stir bar.  I've
used both a flask and a jug.  My latest is a jug and I can stir a 4L wine
jug (with a vortex that goes all the way to the magnet) without losing
the coupling.

I did have to make my own stirrer.  I cut a hole in the bottom and then
mounted the motor so that the vertical position could be adjusted for
optimal coupling.  It's a matter of mechanical engineering.  If you
use a commercial made stir plate, yes it probably won't work.  BUT, if
you make your own (or are willing/can modify one) it can and does work.

John Schnupp, N3CNL
Dirty Laundry Brewery
Colchester, VT
95 XLH 1200



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Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:46:33 -0400
From: "Doug Moyer" <shyzaboy at yahoo.com>
Subject: RIMS thermocouple

To all the DIY RIMSers,
    Is there any reason not to use thermocouple wire to make my own bi-metal
junction thermocouple? Assuming I pick the right alloys, will I get
sufficient precision? Any suggestions on the right alloys? (I meant to bring
the Omega catalogue home tonight, but forgot. Now I'm looking for an "easy"
answer.) I will be designing my own controller basically from the ground up,
so interface is not a problem.
    What about keeping the thermocouple junction isolated from the wort--is
it necessary? If I make a thermal well, I know I'll lose response time, but
I don't know if it would be an issue in this application. (Obviously I
haven't done much research or testing yet...)
    Any thoughts out there?

Brew on!

Doug Moyer
Salem, VA

Star City Brewers Guild: http://hbd.org/starcity


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Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:33:37 -0400
From: "Fred Ogline" <Fred.Ogline at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Polyclar use

I have a pear melomel that I made back in January, my first mead with fruit.
I've racked it twice since then (the first time into more pureed pears but
the second time into nothing but a carboy full of CO2.)  It's down to about
four gallons.  The last time I racked was in April, and it is not clearing
so that I would notice.  There is little sediment on the bottom, and it is
pretty much finished out gravity-wise.  A local brewer told me to
try polyclar, and that all you have to do is add two teaspoons to some warm
water like I was rehydrating/activating dry yeast, and that was all there
was to it.  His state of consciousness was questionable at the time, so I
thought I should check out for additional experiences/information.

Does this sum up the procedure?  What can I expect as far as performance in
clearing it up:  will it work, how long will it take?  Does polyclar mess
with the flavor at all?  What is polyclar, by the way?

Thanks for the help.

Fred Ogline
Walled Lake, MI
fred.ogline at worldnet.att.net




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Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:33:07 -0500
From: "Sean Richens" <srichens at sprint.ca>
Subject: Sulphur in water

When someone comments on water containing "sulphur", because that's what
they smell, it's usually hydrogen sulphide, which some wine yeast strains
will make both naturally and in response to excess metabisulphite.

Since it's water and you don't care about oxygen, try adding a squeeze of
lemon, some citric acid, or some lemonade crystals to acidify the water,
then pour it from one container to another a few times to aerate it.  This
should scrub out most of the hydrogen sulphide, and if you let it sit for a
couple of hours (or tote it around in a canteen) most sulphur dioxide
should convert to sulphate, which has considerably less flavour.

Sean


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Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:08:28 PDT
From: "bryan bonser" <bbonser at hotmail.com>
Subject: Sapporo Soybeans

I have a new twist from Japan on an old thread.  Sorry if this information 
has already been posted; I searched the recent archives and didn't see one, 
but have just recently subscribed.

Sapporo, one of Japan's big four brewers, currently has a "five-grain" beer 
containing SOYBEANS on the market.  I don't know if it is intended as a 
permanent addition to their line, but is available nationwide, even in my 
local convenience stores and (this is one reason I'm still in Japan) in many 
BEER VENDING MACHINES.  The other four grains are, in no order, barley, 
rice, millet, and foxtail millet.  The taste is earthy but clean and light, 
a wholesome-tasting beer.  Not bad, but with so much else thrown in, it's 
hard to say exactly what the effect of the soybeans is.

It is called "Gokoku No Megumi"(Blessing of Five Grains) if anyone is 
interested in further research.

Kanpai!

Bryan Bonser
Yamanashi, Japan
bbonser at hotmail.com

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