HOMEBREW Digest #3164 Mon 08 November 1999

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Heated Lager fermentation, foamover, cornie tapping,  gelatin (Dave Burley)
  HERMS RIMS Sites. (WayneM38)
  RE: Munton's Wheat LME ("Martin Brungard")
  RE: Aquarium heaters for lagering (LaBorde, Ronald)
  aquarium heater, slow munich, blow-off, cheese ("Sean Richens")
  Blowoff (Eric R Lande)
  Rusty Anchors (ThomasM923)
  RE: Clogged Brewpot Drain ("Sherfey")
  Plenty Of Heat Makes It Ferment Quick ("Phil and Jill Yates")
  Re: Carboy Cleaning (KMacneal)
  Re: Clogged brewpot drain (RobertJ)
  Exploding Bottles? (Ross Reid)
  carboy cleaning (Demonick)
  Kurt's Clog ("Bruce Garner")
  Is Artemisia ever used in Saisons? ("Bruce Garner")
  Egg Drop Soup??? (Kevin Peters)
  Aeration ("Frank J. Russo")
  1999 Spooky Brew Competition results ("Jim Hodge")
  3 Tiered Home brewery (Joe Berlin)
  Lead and Brass ("Jack Schmidling")
  Winemaking ("Jack Schmidling")
  Repitching ale yeast / Non-oxidative staling reactions? ("Dean Fikar")
  Carboy cleaning (Eric R Lande)
  Corney pressure (Eric R Lande)
  Clogged valve (Dave Burley)
  Fermenter temperature control (Dave Burley)
  re: Aquarium heaters (CALNZAS)" <Tony.Ackland at comalco.riotinto.com.au>
  Converting Kegs (Brenton Vandepeer)
  Bonafied Styles Page ("Alan McKay")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 13:25:21 -0500 From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Heated Lager fermentation, foamover, cornie tapping, gelatin Brewsters: Dan Kiplinger say he wants to use an aquarium heater to heat his lager fermentation and is concerned because this solution sounds so easy. You forgot to tell us where you live. North Pole?? Antarctica?? Lager fermentation should always be carried out at less than 55F and preferably in the mid to high 40sF (That's Fahrenheit not Celsius or Centigrade). The reason your solution of using an aquarium heater was so easy that it was scary to you, was that it was the wrong solution for most places and days of the year. - -------------------------------- Ian Smith had a foamover and asks for guidance. First, I wouldn't bother trying to recycle lost brew. Why risk 5 gallons for a gallon? Not a good tradeoff. Secondly, I'd lose the bad idea of doing a primary fermentation in a carboy. The result you got is to be expected at least part of the time if you use a carboy no matter how big ( to the point of ridiculousness) depending on the yeast, the pitching rate, the wort and the pitching temperature. I ferment in a 6 gallon plastic garbage can covered with a plastic sheet held down by a chain of rubber bands. I have never had a foam over. The plastic sheet (which I soak in a strong bleach solution, shake and dip in boiling water before use) acts as a physical defoamer and prevents any blowovers and the like. The sheet can also be easily kept clean or thrown away, unlike those blowoff tubes. Normally, my fermentations' foams do not reach the sheet, but if they do I'm covered, so to speak. The can is also very easy to keep clean and removing that ring of goop is a snap, unlike a carboy. - ------------------------------------ Sounds like Conan Barnes married a "keeper" who bought him a Cornie setup for their anniversary. Now that's class!! To answer your question about the best way to handle CO2 being inside the refrigerator ( don't - possibility of corrosion of the regulator as you move it in and out of the fridge over time) or poke holes thorugh the walls of the refrigerator to install gas lines? If this is your family refrigerator, I would advise against this or your SO may eventually rebel. My solution, which I use, even though I have my own fridge, is to keep the CO2 outside open the fridge and attach the tank whenever I want a brew. I keep the cobra head inside the fridge, but unattached to prevent leakage or a potential accident. Remember to depress the pin on the attachment to purge the CO2 line of air, if this is the first brew of the night. After the keg is partly empty ( or partly full depending on your outlook on life) you can also have a few brews without doing this, just be sure to recharge the keg at nights' end. This system appears more cumbersome, but I can easily clean the cobra hose, unlike those bolted in taps. I can have several brews on tap. I don't have any problem with leaking tanks or lines or any drip pans. Although this is not as classy, perhaps, I find it better overall. Conan also has used gelatin to fine and wonders if the floating bits are gelatin residues. I would suggest you not use any fining agent with beer, except in extreme cases. It is just a waste of good hops ( tannins from hops and other sources complex with the gelatin, as with other proteins.) in most cases and can change the character of your beer. If you can, wait a week or so longer and drop the clarification step. My beers from my cornies are always clear after a week or two in the fridge. Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 14:32:37 EST From: WayneM38 at aol.com Subject: HERMS RIMS Sites. On Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 20:26:55 -0800 The Holders <zymie at sprynet.com> Wayne writes: <<Subject: HEaRMS Jeff asks about Heat Exchange Recirculating Mash Systems and links for plans. I don't have any plans for mine, but its not so top secret that you'd have to buy the kit if there were any. IGOR can be found at http://home.sprynet.com/~zymie/rims.html . You will want to take a look at Rick Calley's system at http://www.pressenter.com/~rcalley/index.htm . Also don't forget to check out Nate Wahls (OOGIE, OOGIE!) system at http://www.cros.net/cruiser/Brewery/nate_herms.html . I've seen other Heat exchange systems on the web, but never kept a list of links. Building one is not that complicated. BTW, when exactly was the term HERMS coined? I first used the term HEARMS in HBD 2617 back in January '98. Hmmm....kinda makes me wonder.>> Wayne: When doing the research for my HEMan RIMS in 1997-98 there were few Sites with links dedicated to Heat Exchange RIMS other that the ones you listed above. I visited many homepages to come up with the final design for my system. BTW when friends and family comment on how I went overboard on my system, I refer them to your site and explain that I have the 'Chevy' homebrewing system compared to your 'Stainless Steel Porsche' homebrewing system..... After I update a few typos and photos on my current RIMS page I will be looking for my next WEB project for those weeks when brewing outside in Wisconsin becomes too much of a challenge. Would a Heat Exchange RIMS links page be worth while? I have 2 megs of unused WEB space that could be used for a project like this. One other note for Wayne, while Rodney Morris is credited with the first workable RIMS in 1992, there was a US patent submitted in 1986 for the recirculation of the mash with a pump for homebrewing. How does that saying go? Nothing new under the sun.... Wayne AKA Botanist Brewer Big Fun Brewing RIMS Site Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 15:19:01 EST From: "Martin Brungard" <mabrungard at hotmail.com> Subject: RE: Munton's Wheat LME Paul Haaf wrote several days ago: Lately I've been purchasing Munton's Wheat LME in the 3 gal (33 lb) 'buckets'. The last batch that I bought was NOT wheat malt. I have a similar experience involving this product. I recently crafted two batches of a wheat beer a few months apart. Both batches were identical in all respects...ingredients, amounts, boiling times, methods, yeast, fermentation temp, etc. The first batch was pale gold with the expected wheat crispness. The second batch was light brown with great deal more maltiness. The second batch was still good, it was just not what it was supposed to be. The Wheat LME used in both batches was Munton's. I purchased it from my local homebrew retailer who I greatly respect. It was supplied by the pound from his drum (or bucket?) stock. He said that he hasn't had any complaints from any of his other customers, but maybe none of them knew what the finished product should have turned out like. I had the first batch to compare with, so I know the LME wasn't correct. I appreciate Paul posting his findings about this Wheat LME because I was going crazy trying to figure out why the two batches weren't identical. Sanity restored (partially at least) Martin Brungard Tallahassee, FL "Meandering to a different drummer" ______________________________________________________ Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 15:28:22 -0600 From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald) Subject: RE: Aquarium heaters for lagering From: "Dan Kiplinger" <knurdami at iname.com> >My plan is to get a submersible heater with the wattage recommended for 2 >times the volume that I intend on fermenting (I will be fermenting 20 gal). >If I remember correctly from my days as an aquarium sales dude in >highschool, it was 25 to 50 watts per 5 gallons. This would mean that I >would be looking to get a heater with a wattage between 200 and 400. 400 >watts seems a bit extreme Are you planing to put the heater into the wort? This would cause you to do more sanitizing steps, and risk infection. You can purchase heating tapes from Grainger, in various lengths and wattage's, which can be wrapped around the outside of your fermenter, then insulated, if desired. I ferment in 5 gallon glass and use a single heating pad, on low. I attach it with a bunge cord around the pad and fermenter. I then slip the probe of a Radio Shack digital thermometer on the side away from the pad and read the temperature. This works very well, but it doesn't get very cold here. I would guess you could easily raise the temperature by 15 degrees F. without insulation. Ron Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 17:56:36 -0600 From: "Sean Richens" <srichens at sprint.ca> Subject: aquarium heater, slow munich, blow-off, cheese Re. aquarium heater: You're ahead of the rest of us with your past aquarium experience, but I would factor in one more thing - the wattage will be more or less proportional to the delta T between the material to be heated and the environment (since it's natural convection it's probably a bit more than proportional). Take the assumed difference between an aquarium and room temperature and the actual difference between your desired lager temp and the icebox (?) where you hold it and apply the ratio. You really need to heat a lager??? Good circulation is easy - put the heater way over on one side and convection takes care of the rest. Re. slow Munich Just ride it out and cross your fingers, if it's started already. I once pitched a Pilsener and went out of town for a week. There was a cold snap at home and in the end it spent a touch over two weeks fermenting in a pail. Another month later I re-pitched the yeast cake out of secondary and it was fine. I sure worried though, and I DEFINITELY tasted the hydrometer sample before committing to re-pitching. Hey blow-off dude - you try it and tell us if it works! Har har har. That was unkind. I've done things like that but use a separate gallon jug - don't waste 5 gallons to save 1. Cheese, huh? Tried a really bad kit when I was a kid. I'm too paranoid about lactobacillus to do both beer and cheese. Otherwise I'd be making sauerkraut & pickles already. Hey, know of any good sauerkraut sites? Sean Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 22:59:36 -0500 From: Eric R Lande <landeservices at juno.com> Subject: Blowoff Ian Smith asked about how to save his beer from blowing off during fermentation. You wouldn't catch me draining my blowoff back into the carboy, Ian. That just sounds like trouble. You might try lowering the temp. at which you ferment. I just fermented a brown ale at around 66F. I know that that is a little low but that is the temp of my basement. The krausen never reached the blow off tube and I replaced it with an air lock before I went away for the weekend. It took the better part of a week to ferment, instead of three or four days, but I lost nothing. Lets hope it tastes worth the wait. Happy brewing. Eric Lande Doylestown, PA Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 23:31:16 EST From: ThomasM923 at aol.com Subject: Rusty Anchors One of my most favorite beers is Anchor porter. Not only is it somewhat hard to find in these parts, it is very hard to find it in fresh condition. Has anyone been able to decode the alphanumeric code on the back into meaningful born-on information? The last one I had was in sorry shape and had 9YD stamped on the back, perhaps for 9 Years olD. Thanks in advance, Thomas Murray Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 05:55:34 -0500 From: "Sherfey" <sherf at warwick.net> Subject: RE: Clogged Brewpot Drain Kurt- Two questions.... Are you draining from the center or the side? How is that scrubber attached? I use a short piece of copper tubing that just fits into the drain of a 15 gal restaurant pot. It's bent into a curve and is cut so that the open end rests against the bottom corner and allows an opening for the drain. It kinda wedges in place using pressure between the welded drain and the side of the brewpot. The tube opening draws from the side of the pot and avoids pulling in from the center (without a tube) with a wide open drain valve. With leaf hops I tie a half choreboy to the end of the tube with solid copper wire and can tilt the kettle at the end of the drain to get the liquid out of the hops. With (any) pellet hops I use no choreboy and let the whirlpool keep stuff away from the bottom corner and avoid the tilt and live with the glop waste. All swell and dandy but you're using a sankey....If you are draining from the center of your sankey, or anywhere near the whirlpool cone, the whirlpool won't be as effective because stuff will eventually pile on top of the drain. If the scrubber is stuffed into the drain, that could limit its volume. Cheers! David Sherfey Warwick, NY Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 22:15:07 +1100 From: "Phil and Jill Yates" <yates at infoflex.com.au> Subject: Plenty Of Heat Makes It Ferment Quick Rarely do I take the opportunity to write a post which is anything less than offensive, or for that matter anywhere near the target regarding subject matter. But all this discussion on aquarium heaters has me a bit miffed. Over here in a parched and sunburnt country, aquarium heaters are all the go. The idea is to get the less than acceptable 25C ambient temp way up around the 30C mark and get that beer rolling off the line. Recently in Cairns which is way north of the Tropic of Capricorn, I asked the local Homebrew Supplier how the hell did they control their ferment temps. "No worries" he said, "Up here it rarely gets much below 30C, No need for those fangled heaters up here"! Mind you, if you observed the consumption habits of some of the locals, you might not wonder at the necessity to get that beer brewing fast! As for taste? Well no one seems to care. Now coming from a sophisticated brewing background (read a handful of books), I of course would not be seen indulging in such outlandish brewing behaviour. But the boys up north, well they seem to be enjoying themselves despite all the rules they fail to heed. I guess when you lose a mate to a crocodile every other day, brewing that beer fast and drinking it takes on a sense of urgency! Phil Yates Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 07:46:50 EST From: KMacneal at aol.com Subject: Re: Carboy Cleaning In a message dated 11/6/1999 12:22:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, "James R M Gilson" <JIMKATZOO at email.msn.com> writes: << I was having trouble cleaning the trub out of my carboys, even when I would start rinsing immediately after transfer into the bottling bucket. Some of the crud would always remain and I would put a small scrubby pad in with some water and have to hoist and gyrate to swirl the water in the neck to get the crud out. >> I have one of the jet bottle washers and have found it works great for blasting the yeast cake off the bottom of the carboy. For the scum that usually accumulates around the neck, I let the fill the carboy with bleach water and let it sit over night and then attack it with a carboy brush. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 08:27:58 -0500 From: RobertJ <pbsys at pbsbeer.com> Subject: Re: Clogged brewpot drain Kurt Kiewel wrote Brewers, I can't solve the mystery of clogged brewpot. I brew in a converted sankey with a valve installed near the bottom to which a stainless scrubber is fitted. After cooling with an immersion chiller, whirlpooling and waiting for 20min for everything to settle I get about 1/3 cup of wort out of the spout before it clogs. I have been using pelletized hops. Is this a mistake? In my experience a scrubby will work better with whole leaf hops. The hops will then filter out the trub. If you want to use pellets and allow the break to settle just make sure the drain opening is above the trub. With a keg, to achieve this you will just need a side drain rather than a drain with pick up tube and scrubby. Because of the concave bottom of the keg, you will lose a bit more wort. Bob Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 15:44:50 GMT From: mrreid at golden.net (Ross Reid) Subject: Exploding Bottles? There's been a lot of discussion in rec.food.preserving over the past few days regarding the safety of following a posted recipe for homemade soda pop. My contention is that anyone using the recipe is asking for problems, others say everything will be fine. What are the chances of exploding bottles if one follows the recipe as posted? 5 gallons of water 5 pounds of sugar Stir well 'till sugar is dissolved. Add 1 packet of yeast, either bread or champagne type. Mix well. Immediately pour into used 2 liter soda bottles. Cap tightly and store in a warm place for 5 days. After 5 days move to cool place. What say you? Cheers, Ross. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 07:45:24 -0800 From: Demonick <demonick at zgi.com> Subject: carboy cleaning From: "James R M Gilson" <JIMKATZOO at email.msn.com> >I was having trouble cleaning the trub out of my carboys, even when I >would start rinsing immediately after transfer into the bottling >bucket. Some of the crud would always remain and I would put a small >scrubby pad in with some water and have to hoist and gyrate to swirl >the water in the neck to get the crud out. At the homebrew shop they >suggested using ammonia. It worked great. Until one sunny afternoon Jim, It's even easier. After immediately rinsing the chunks out of the fermenter, pour in a cup or two of household bleach and fill the carboy to the brim. Cover brim with foil as a safety precaution. Let stand for a few days, or a few weeks, or some months. All the organic crud will magically disappear. Rinse. Actually, I store my carboys full of 1 cup bleach in 5 gallons. Cheers! Domenick Venezia Venezia & Company, LLC Maker of PrimeTab (206) 782-1152 phone (206) 782-6766 fax orders demonick at zgi dot com Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 10:10:14 -0600 From: "Bruce Garner" <bpgarner at mailbag.com> Subject: Kurt's Clog I had the same problem. My Sankey has an L pipe to the bottom which I used to rotate into position with a donut of SS scrubby around it. I counterflow chill and the hot break and hops would soon clog the outlet. Whole hops were better but it was still slow. I got rid of the scrubby and have been using a nylon sockette which I sterilized in idophor to catch the hot break and hop bits at the outlet of my chiller. As the cool wort wort runs down the sockette it picks up a bit of oxygen. The flow is much better. I put the sockette inside the carboy and it filled like a light bulb. I pulled it out very slowly when done and wrung out a bit more wort that way. I usually ferment in an open topped Sankey and then I clip the sockette horizontally across the opening so that wort drips along its length. The other thing to consider is having your boil kettle as high as you can and your fermentor down low. Use a longer hose and you will have a greater head pressure. Hope this helps Bruce Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 10:22:04 -0600 From: "Bruce Garner" <bpgarner at mailbag.com> Subject: Is Artemisia ever used in Saisons? Body: Is Artemisia ever used in Saisons? Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 14:49:41 -0800 From: Kevin Peters <kpeters at ptd.net> Subject: Egg Drop Soup??? I used Weissheimer pilsener malt for the first time and experienced a form of hot break that is best described as egg drop soup. This was in addition to the normal hot break flakes of about 1/8 inch or so in size. The recipe was 45% Weissheimer, 45% Weyerman pils, and 10% M&F carapils. Has anybody else seen this with the Weissheimer? Kevin Peters Mechanicsburg, PA Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 14:54:25 -0500 From: "Frank J. Russo" <FJRusso at coastalnet.com> Subject: Aeration Greetings Beerlings! Bear with me while I get my thoughts down on page here and put together my question. Let start with the starter. If I create a starter 3 days prior to pitching, one of the things I should be doing is aerating the culture. So I put my air stone in the culture, turn on the pump of course, just let it run for the 3 days. This helps develop a large, health yeast colony. So far so good? Now lets go to the Wort. I put the wort in the primary fermenter and now I want to aerate the wort well. There is an awful lot in the archives on this. I put my air stone in the wort, turn on the pump and let it run overnight. Now I have a well aerated wort. Problems? Okay, I am getting close to my question. I now pitch the yeast culture into the primary. Normally, I now put on the airlock and let it go for 5 days to a week. What if for a set time X HOURS after pitching, you continued to aerate the wort? Yes I know about oxidation etc... But, is there a time period after pitching, when continued aeration will be of benefit to the yeast culture without causing damage to the wort, 4 hours, 8 hours, 12 hours, 24 hours???? Anyone have any answers or ideas here. If not I guest I have to create an experiment on my own and report back. Frank Russo "There is only one aim in life and that is to live it." Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 16:08:36 -0600 From: "Jim Hodge" <jdhodge at worldnet.att.net> Subject: 1999 Spooky Brew Competition results The 1999 Spooky Brew Review Homebrew Competition was held on October 30th at O'Grady's Pub and Brewery in Arlington Heights, IL. right now, the results can be viewed at http://home.att.net/~jdhodge and they will be viewable shortly at their permanent home at http://www.chibeer.org Jim Hodge Chicago Beer Society Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 17:07:11 -0600 (CST) From: TO1JRB at webtv.net (Joe Berlin) Subject: 3 Tiered Home brewery I'm just getting into all grain brewing. I'm going to use a 14in. diameter x23in. ss pool filter tank as a HLT. I have a ss tank 16in diameter x 56in. that will be cut into 2 pots for the Mash/Lauter Tun and the brew Kettle .How tall should I make each of the tank parts to get the most volume out of what I have? What will the volume of the Brewing Kettle and MLT be ? At a later day I may make this into a HERMS or RIMS. Would a plexiglass lid be ok for the HLT and Brewing Kettle? Thank you good people for your input to a newbie . From the future home of the "Hair of the dog Brewery" Joe Berlin Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 19:07:22 -0600 From: "Jack Schmidling" <arf at mc.net> Subject: Lead and Brass Seems like time for my "for what it's worth" posting again. Back when fears of lead in brass were rampant, I did the knee jerk thing and designed an all plastic SLEEZYMASHER(r) but before marketing it, I did a bit of a pseudo scientific investigation to see if the real problem was lead in brass or the nice folks who make a living scaring people. I made a batch of beer using Chicago tap water, which was mashed, boiled and fermented in kettles with brass, off-the-shelf EASYMASHERS (R). I sent a sample of the beer along with a sample of the same tap water to a testing lab and the results actually indicated that there was more lead in the tap water than in the beer. It was a meaningless factoid as the level was at the margin of resolution of the test lab. The most that could really be said was that there was no measureable amount of lead in the beer. Needless to say, I quit worrying about it and sent the SLEEZYMASHER off to the museum of bad ideas. js PHOTO OF THE WEEK http://user.mc.net/arf/weekly.htm HOME http://user.mc.net/arf Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 19:39:19 -0600 From: "Jack Schmidling" <arf at mc.net> Subject: Winemaking From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com> " You ought to try the current selection of concentrates. The results far surpass "jug wines" and numerous customers of mine have quit going to the liquor stores for $18 and $20 bottles of wine. If you were purchase a _complete_starter wine kit from me you would be getting 25 bottles of wine for slightly over $3 /bottle I have a better idea. Why don't you send me a sample of wine made from your kit that you feel is equivalent to a $20 wine. If what you claim is true, I will appologize profusely and become your strongest supporter. BTW, jug wine works out to about $2 per bottle and the ones I drink are worth every penny of it. It can't compare to European vin ordinare but it is quite drinkable at the daily table. > It must have been years since Jack has tried making wine so his results arre fairly dated; It has been many years since I quit using concentrate for reasons previously stated but I do make wine every year now from my own vinyard. >what he is stating is no more correct than saying, "All dried beer yeasts are bread yeasts." I fail to see the anology. What I thought I said was that, making wine from concentrates has about the same potential as making beer from extracts. I am certainly willing to be proven wrong but the ball in in your hands now. js PHOTO OF THE WEEK http://user.mc.net/arf/weekly.htm HOME http://user.mc.net/arf Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 10:56:36 -0600 From: "Dean Fikar" <dfikar at flash.net> Subject: Repitching ale yeast / Non-oxidative staling reactions? Dave says: "For sure, racking an ale wort onto a complete yeast cake from a previous brew is the wrong way to go since you want some yeast growth for ales." Is this really true? I haven't seen this in any of the books I've read. My standard repitching procedure is to rack (ales or lagers) onto the entire yeast cake from the primary (I typically don't use a secondary) and aerate with pure O2. Is this wrong? - ------------------------------------------------------- As we all know, most of the staling reactions we worry about are due to oxygen left after packaging. What if you ferment in a keg and are careful to *completely* purge the receiving keg with CO2 leaving no air? George Fix told me once that he has followed similar procedures and has measured no O2 in the receiving keg if it is completely purged and pushed over from the keg primary with CO2. I'm sure that even if there is no O2 left there will still be limits as to how long the beer will keep, especially at higher temps. What other types of non-oxidative reactions will take place? How much longer will beer keep at a given temperature if completely removed from oxygen after pitching? Inquiring minds want to know... Dean Fikar - Fort Worth, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 09:48:58 -0500 From: Eric R Lande <landeservices at juno.com> Subject: Carboy cleaning In HBD #3163 Jim Gilson asks about cleaning the growth out of his carboy. Yes, Jim, I get it, Solution. I had a really nasty carboy before my last batch - had yeast, trub, etc. in there for months. I added some dish washer detergent and filled it up with water and let it sit in the garage. After a coupled of days all the crap had not only softened, but had cleaned itself off the sides and just needed to be dumpe and rinsed. I think that I may have read this here on the HBD a couple of months back. Good luck. Eric Lande Doylestown, PA Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 09:30:00 -0500 From: Eric R Lande <landeservices at juno.com> Subject: Corney pressure In his response to Conan Barnes' question in HBD #3163 about pressure for his new corney keg/fridge, Darren Robey expresses his view and is worried about flaming. Darren, you go boy! I do exactly the same thing: Put pressure on the keg, drink, put more pressure on it when needed. The only thing that I may do differently is that when I am done with the keg for the session, I'll typically add extra pressure - maybe 10 or 15 lbs. over serving pressure - to make sure the carbonation in the beer will not come out of solution because of a head pressure that it too low. This seems to work very well for me. Eric Lande Doylestown, PA Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 12:15:00 -0500 From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Clogged valve Brewsters: Kurt gets about a quart of wort out of his whirlpooled bottom valved brewpot before it clogs. He asks for suggestions. Two things spring to mind: 1) Use whole leaf hops and place a SS choreboy over the inlet to the valve. This should work fine if you can get the opening of the valve up into the interior of the choreboy scrubber. If not, make an extension which slides over the valve inlet and into the choreboy OR 2) Install a bigger ball valve to let the hop pieces through. Even though it isn't as you planned and you don't want to do it, racking is your back-up method. Whole leafs are superior in this instance also when using a choreboy over the end of the racking cane. - -------------------------- Jim that solution of fertilizing ammonia ( farmers use it on their fields all the time) you put into your carboy and various proteinaceous gunk in there was probably just the thing algae and bacteria needed to grow once you added time and sunlight. I wouldn't leave it in the carboy for very long to avoid this problem as other invisible things also grow in this marvelous nutrient filled bath. The real solution ( get it? - solution) is to use bleach instead of ammonia. A small amount of straight bleach swirled over the gunk will loosen it. After 15 minutes a good hot water addition with swirling will do the job completely. I often leave a small amount of dilute bleach solution in the carboy and cover the top with saran wrap until next use of bleach before I use the carboy. BTW NEVER use bleach and ammonia together. - ---------------------------- Alan Meeker and I have been discussing yeast growth habits and contributon to flavor components of beer. I was surprised when Alan commented that the majority of the fermentation took place during the growth phase of the yeast ( I assume you mean the population of yeast or do you mean the individual cell?), since I had assumed that all yeast which are still alive are processing sugar. As a percentage, the new yeast is far outnumbered by the fully grown yeast at equilibrium. I have never seen a plot of % sugar consumption versus % of equilibrium population. Do you have some kind of numbers to support this? Alan, do you agree that yeast come to an equilibrium population value ( regardless of how complex a control process you believe it is) during and before the end of a fermentation? And that this is relatively standard population value for normal fermentations? Both lager and ale yeasts? Keep on Brewin' Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 12:15:48 -0500 From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Fermenter temperature control Brewsters: Dan Kiplinger clarifed his need for a fermentation temperature control for lagers. The temperature in his garage will bounce around 40 during the winter. Chances are he may not need a heater for 20 gallons of lager if he insulates the tank properly and if this is the temperature range. The danger with temperature for lager yeast in this range is more due to rapid fluctuations ( rapid fall) than to actually too cold. Be sure you have a starter which was started cold and at or below the temperature of your fermentation. It would be nice however, to control the temperature better. The aquarium heater(s) should work, but I would suggest you recirculate water through a separate coil of copper refrigerator tubing which is placed in the insulated fermenter, rather than heating the wort directly. This will be much more sanitary and easy to keep it that way and it avoids any potential for charring as others have noted. The agitation from the fermentation should stir this adequately to get good heat exchange. You may even consider using this copper tubing as a temperature control to avoid too warm a fermentation also ( if your garage is that cold) by having a section of the coil exposed to the cold air to act as a radiator in the early part of the fermentation. I visualize a recirculating system in which a section of the coil is in the fermenter and another section of the coil is outside the fermenter and exposed to the cold air. The heater must be placed such that the water from the fermenter passes through the heater prior to the outside exposed coil. If the re-circulating water is over the desired temperature, the heater will not be activated. and the water circulating will be cooled and cool the fermenter. As the fermentation cools to below the desired temperature, the heater will be applied and the temperature controlled to some extent. Early in the fermentation you may need to put a fan on this coil radiator. Problem with this suggestion is that the water warmed by the heater will be passing through the exposed coil and make the heater less efficient. I don't know if this is a problem or not, but a simple valving system could be used to avoid this problem on extremely cold nights. - ---------------------------------------------- SteveA's musings ( welcome back from your Germany trip) on how to be successful in a large corporation by mouthing the currently acceptable mantra, having a full head of hair and being 6 ft 1" tall reminds me of two things on which I have privately mused in the past. The Japanese have a saying: "It is the nail that sticks up that gets hammered down". Uniformity is most important in their society. And this attitude probably reflects their inability to invent anything. I once asked one of my Japanese friends why all of the words describing things like telephone, computer and seat belt and such were really english words. His answer? "because the Japanese never invented anything!" Turns out he was more right than wrong. The Japanese are really excellent at copying and improving things because they move forward with total concensus on every front. But any person who has an idea outside the "norm" is quickly moved a long way away from the boss at dinner and his desk moves closer to the window. Both (not so) subtle indications of group shame and dislike. This is the hallmark of any large corporation ( and Japan Inc is one) is a bureaucracy which is excellent at doing what they do very well over and over again because everything is tightly controlled. This is not all bad and the majority of our efficient society is due to this idea.The downside of this is that any creativity or change is squeezed out as are openly creative people. American corporations suffer from this same disease. They buy creations from outside. Any completely new business has no place and will likely founder without support. I know of a German corporation whose research arm functions entirely independent of the business ( a good thing, usually) but when it comes time to take the creations to market, no existing business will do it. The megabuck research and patent support just withers away. I used this basic corporate failure-to-create in a business I started. I spun off these creations to other corporations who had a business in the area. It's called Technology Transfer and critical to a mega-corporation moving forward, given their innate inability to create internally. I also worked for many years for a major US corporation. How did I achieve a modicum of creative success in this corporate environment? I just went out and did what needed doing in my estimation and picked up the pieces later. The risk? My job. I never lost one. And if I couldn't be creative? My sanity. What's the answer to SteveA's dismal outlook? I encourage all you creative people (and I will bet the HBD has a really high percentage and why I am writing this here) to break the bonds of control quietly. Be surreptitiously creative and then you won't have to regrow hair or grow a few inches taller. Nothing succeeds like unexpected ( by your colleagues) good results. Bigger markets, better products cannot be denied. Your boss will be happy he thought of the idea and somewhere in the organization ( advertise your success wherever you can) there are other higher Cloaked Creators who will recognize your success and promote you. Have the balls to Be Creative!! You only have a few years. It is your American Duty and Duty to Yourself when you will have lost all your hair and are a few inches shorter. Keep on Brewin' Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 23:46:16 -0000 From: "Ackland, Tony (CALNZAS)" <Tony.Ackland at comalco.riotinto.com.au> Subject: re: Aquarium heaters Rather than use a submersible heater, i have used the heating element from a water-bed with quite a bit of sucess. Nothing to break or burn-out. With the decline of water-bed popularity, it is quite cheap and easy to find these in second-hand goods shops, garage sales, etc, for around $15. They are already sealed waterproof, and thus impervious to the occasional splash or two... I wrap mine around the outside of the fermenter barrel, and tape the temperature probe to the side of the barrel, up near the top of liquid level. Then wrap the whole arrangement with an old blanket. This then leaves the thermostat sitting out where you can easily watch it. The first run lets ya know the offset involved - eg if i set my thermostat to 21C i obtain 24C in the fermenter. It supplies a nice uniform heat to the whole side of the fermentor, and you get a nice slow circulation in the fermentor due to convective flow in the liquid. This then means that when i turn it off, the yeast all settles in one fell swoop - forming a thinner, more compact layer on the bottom, less likely to carry over during bottling or transfering to a secondary. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 11:07:49 +1030 (CST) From: Brenton Vandepeer <bvandepe at gsoft.com.au> Subject: Converting Kegs I've finally taken the plunge and started the long and arduous process of converting some kegs into a brewery. Up 'til now, I've been using a large copper (aka laundry copper) to mash and boil in, but the constant battle for sufficient sparge water has forced my hand. I'm not sure how far I'm going to go with this at this point in time - a HERMS is not out of the question - but for now the object of the exercise was to convert a ball-lock SS keg into a HLT. (As an aside, I'm not sure how this keg relates to what you North American HBD-ers call Sanke kegs, Corney kegs, etc. It's a 10 gallon ball lock keg with DAB markings. Apparently, they were imported to Oz for a large function and, once emptied, scrapped.) The point of this post is simply to provide another data point on the feasibility of opening these kegs up. I've read a fair bit of the available literature out there on the 'net, and had gotten the strong impression that a plasma cutter was the only way to go. Not having access to one of these toys and being a fairly skeptical Aussie, I decided to have a go at it with the tools at my disposal - viz, a hand-held jigsaw and an angle grinder. First, let me say that the jigsaw was not a viable option. I found tha tit cut the SS remarkably easily, and would have happily cut the top out of the keg with it, except that it would go around corners! Certainly not at the curve radius I wanted to cut at - around 14 cm, I guess. Bummer. Second, the angle grinder did a very nice job of it. Contrary to some of the articles I've read, it did not take any great effort, and I didn't wear out "several" cutting disks. I guess I ablated 30-50% of the disk I had in the grinder at the time - it wasn't a new disk at the start of the process. The edges of the cut were, obviously, fairly rough, but after about 20 minutes of grinding, filing and buffing with emery paper, I had a smooth edge from which not even a 2 year old could draw blood. Oh well, now it's off to the welders with fittings in hand... - --- Brenton Vandepeer, Genesis Software, Pty Ltd. email: bvandepe at gsoft.com.au Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 22:04:59 -0500 From: "Alan McKay" <amckay at ottawa.com> Subject: Bonafied Styles Page Hi folks, A while ago I started up a page called "Bonafied Styles" http://www.bodensatz.com/homebrew/tips/styles/bonafied/index.html It is meant as a reference for people to know what a particular style of beer tastes like. Unfortunately there haven't been a lot of contributions to it, so I'm sending out the call again. As I mentioned last time, if you've never been in Cologne, then I won't consider your opinions on a Bonafied Koelsch. Similar goes for any other style. No offense, but if you haven't had the real thing, then you can't know the real thing. cheers, -Alan - -- - -- Alan McKay amckay at ottawa.com http://www.bodensatz.com/ What's a bodensatz? http://www.bodensatz.com/bodensatz.html Return to table of contents
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