HOMEBREW Digest #3194 Tue 14 December 1999

[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]


	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  PID for RIMS ("Martin Brungard")
  Beautiful San Francisco (Alan McKay)
  RE:Cask ale from a corny ("Philip J Wilcox")
  low carb dieting (Marc Sedam)
  Lunacy ("Paul Niebergall")
  Re: RIMS ("Ludwig's")
  hop tea pH/FWH IBUs/High Gravity ("Stephen Alexander")
  re: RE: RIMS (MaltHound)
  cask breather for corny?? ("jim williams")
  DoppleBock, sparging and attenuation ("Charles E. Mryglot")
  RE:calories ain't caloriesq ("Kelly")
  RE: Hugh Baird going going gone? (LaBorde, Ronald)
  Calories, Carbs, Beer, Etc. (Midwest Brewer)
  RIMS (LaBorde, Ronald)
  NA beer and calories ("Alan Meeker")
  Hugh Baird going? ("Vinbrew Supply")
  Irish Red Recipe Wanted ("Mark E. Hogenmiller")
  re coopers sparkling ale (smorgan)
  cask ale in general and in cornies ("gdepiro")
  RE: Hugh Baird going going gone? (bergbrew)
  RE: RIMS (LaBorde, Ronald)
  rims and running (Jim Liddil)
  re: Hugh Baird going, going, gone ("Gary Barbatelli")
  Re: Evil of carbs (JohnT6020)

* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!! To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!** IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to the digest as we canoot reach you. We will not correct your address for the automation - that's your job. The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit. More information is available by sending the word "info" to req at hbd.org. JANITORS on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 10:50:20 EST From: "Martin Brungard" <mabrungard at hotmail.com> Subject: PID for RIMS One of our list members asked me a question about PID temperature controllers for RIMS and I thought I would pass some of the info on to the list for future reference. I've researched the PID, solid state relays (SSRs), and thermocouple probes from Omega Engineering. I just purchased a small pH meter from them for $35 plus $5 each for 4.0 and 7.0 buffer solutions. The meter works well. Omega is pretty well known in the process engineering field. I had checked on their products on their website (www.omega.com) several weeks ago and found a PID for $129, SSR & heatsink for $48, and thermocouple probe for $23. When they sent me the pH meter, they also included their new catalogs and I found that some of the products I had priced out were no longer listed in the new catalog. The PID unit most closely matching our price and performance demands had changed to a model CN8591-DC1 with a price of $165. The SSR had changed to model SSR240DC25 for $26 and heatsink FHS-2 for $17. The thermocouple remained unchanged at $23 for model TTIN-18(U)-12. So this setup is going to run $231 plus shipping. I just used my RIMS for the first time on Friday and it has just a manual on/off switch controlling the heater element. Considering my temperature loss coefficient of 0.14 degrees per minute and heating coefficient of 1.05 degrees per minute, I can manually maintain the desired temp every 10 or 20 minutes with a 1 or 2 minute flip of the heater switch. By the way, my thermometer is located in the return pipe exiting the bottom of my tun and I did observe a one to two minute delay in the temperature response after turning on the heater switch. I find that it is important to know your system's heat response characteristics so that you know about how long to energize the heater to get the proper temp rise without overshooting. Considering that its probably unsafe to leave any RIMS unsupervised for a significant length of time, I am not sure that a PID is really needed. Since the cost of the PID system would just about double the cost of my RIMS, I decided to delay adding it to my system initially. Now that I've actually mashed with the unit, I'm pretty sure that the PID is not necessary. Eventhough I'm a technogeek engineer and the cost is not really an issue, the tightwad and pragmatist part of me says that the PID is probably not going to happen. I recommend that you try your system manually before adding that feature. I felt that I was more a part of the process, and the manual temp control was not a hassle. If it had been, I would definitely be in favor of the PID system. I hope this information is useful to anyone contemplating a temperature controller for their RIMS. Martin Brungard Tallahassee, FL "Meandering to a different drummer" ______________________________________________________ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 10:54:06 -0500 (EST) From: Alan McKay <amckay at magma.ca> Subject: Beautiful San Francisco Hey Folks! Still haven't hooked up with the fellows from the HBD who called me, but I will. Our plane got delayed a couple of hours so we endedup getting in at midnight Friday. Then Saturday was brutal from 9am til about 9pm straight through. And today wasn't much better, but things are shaping up for the evenings this week. I'm on a business trip to San Fran right now, and fortunately the people running the conference I'm at are supplying internet connections! Just got back from the Thirsty Bear Brewpub on Howard - managed to sneak out really quickly for almost 2 hours. They've got about 10 or so really good beers. Though the Brown Ale wasn't very brown at all, and the ESB was on Nitro, and I really dislike beers on Nitro. The other two guys I was with each had the complete sampler, where I only tried the Brown, ESB and Pale Ale. Actually, the Pale Ale was overhopped and out of balance. The ESB was really quite spectacular if only they didn't have it on Nitro. Their food is ABSOLUTELY INCREDIBLE. I had the grilled tuna - first time in my life I had real tuna that wasn't out of a can, and it was AWESOME. Somewhat undercooked in the middle, but the folks there tell me that this is how it's most often eaten - and to be honest it was so incredible I didn't care in the least. Served with sundried tomatoes and grilled green beans which where absolutely super. Been drinking a lot of Anchor. The Steam on tap simply can't be beaten. SNPA on tap is good, too, though I honestly can't really see what all the fuss is about. Anchor Porter is very good. SN Porter even better (wonderful nuttiness to it). Red Hook ESB leaves a fair bit to be desired, but their Pale Ale is quite nice! All-in-all, a great trip so far beer-wise. Though I'm really suprised at how expensive beer is here. In a bar it's $5 US per beer - that's $7.50 CDN when I'm used to maybe $4 CDN for a good beer. In the liquor store here in the Tenderloin district (gotta love a district named after a steak!) a six pack is a WHOPPING $10 US!!! WOW!!! And people say that Americans don't homebrew because of price! I find that hard to believe now. Though the instructor in the seminar today did seem to believe that beer was much more expensive in San Fran than in most other places. Back home a 24 of good beer is barely over $30, and here I just payed $30 (CDN) for 12 beer (6 Anchor and 6 SN). Anyway, that's all for now. Won't likely be checking back in on y'all regularly til the 21st. See you all then ... cheers, -Alan - -- "Brewers make wort. Yeast Makes Beer." - Dave Miller's Homebrewing Guide http://www.bodensatz.com/ What's a Bodensatz? http://www.bodensatz.com/bodensatz.html Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 10:53:50 -0500 From: "Philip J Wilcox" <pjwilcox at cmsenergy.com> Subject: RE:Cask ale from a corny Micheal J asks about serving gravity feed from a corney, It can be done, but only on an open system. If you use co2 to fill the space and thus create a closed system, then you will only dispense at what ever you have your CO2 set at. I suppose you could start out with gravity by attaching a gass fitting the keg without the gas line, determine the speed of the pour then connect the fitting to the gas line and try to match it... I have seen Jeff Renner and Jason Henning try to play with hooking up an English hand pump with a CO2 bleed, it doesnt work all that well. It was disconnected and we drank that fabulous Mild all game long!! YUM!!!! It can be done with the right parts and From what Jason said, but thats another investment.... Has anyone put a party pig into a keg? That would work at least for a few gallons. I wonder if the restriction caused by the diameter of the keg being smaller than the pig would cause the bag to rupture? That wouldn't taste good. Would it bend the dip tupe too badly? If you connected 2 of them lengthwise could you dispense a whole keg? A stapler and some good aim could achieve that. Hey Jack here is a product opportunity. How about an oyygen barrier corney bladder? A corney volumed bag with a hard plastic tube you insert up the air line from inside the keg, the bag is fed through the plastic tube and then inverted over the threads of the keg. Then a mini dip-tube (same head size, diameter to fit inside pastic tube)is inserted into the bag and fits over the thread in order to match the thickness the of original dip tube. You then put the pin or Ball fitting back on the keg. You need the mini dip tube because many of the ball and pin lock fittings rely on compression fittings to make the poppet spring work. You then have a closed system that you only need to add an extra air Pin/Ball fitting to too operate the system. Or I suppose you could remove the poppet all-together. But that is just asking for problems imho.... this would be great for tailgaiting and such. They could even be re-used. For those that are Oxygen paranoid, when you get home you could purge the bag by connecting the CO2 you the liquid line, this would keep the bag empty and the rest of the beer in the keg carbonated properly. Interesting Idea eh. In fact upon reflection you dont need the replacement dip tubes If you can feed the bag up and invert it properly you could just use one of the short style coke ones, where they are wider than they are long. Jack, I'll even give you permission to call it the Phil-Bladder. he he he (Just kidding Mr. Listerman) you or Lynn O'Conner or anyone else is more than welcome to manufacture this Idea... And if the party pig people are out there reading this, I want to know when were going to see 32" pig bags?????? Phil Wilcox Poison Frog Home Brewer Warden-Prison City Brewers In Jackson, MI 32 Mi. West of Jeff Renner AABG, AHA, BJCP, HBD, MCAB, ETC., ad nausium... Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 11:15:11 -0500 From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> Subject: low carb dieting I don't know why I feel sucked into this debate, but I do. One data point to ponder. I went on the Atkins diet in conjunction with my yearly abstinence from booze during Lent (40 days long, for those of alternate faiths). I dropped an extraordinary amount of weight (15lbs) and kept much of it off even after resuming a normal, healthy diet. However, as soon as I resumed my truly normal, unhealthy diet it all came back with a vengence. That is, however, to be expected. Not drinking certainly helped, but I usually only have a beer a day so I don't think that had much of an effect. One other note that runs contrary to what others have posted. The Atkins book states that you don't need to exercise on this diet. Now, any diet that tells you exercise is not necessary should be viewed with extreme skepticism. But I found out why--the diet leaves you with absolutely no energy for a serious workout. I play competitive basketball regularly (it is Chapel Hill, after all) and discovered that the Atkins diet left me light-headed and lethargic after only 10 minutes of serious play. Normally I play for about 90 minutes with no ill-effects. I was totally worthless and felt like crap after only 15 minutes. Even my sorry leaping ability was compromised, which, if you've seen me jump, is amazing in and of itself. :-) When I resumed a normal diet I quickly had the energy to sustain serious competition again. It's the main reason I left Atkins dieting for good, although I think it's useful for a week at a crack to shed a few ill-placed pounds. If you hate to exercise or just don't, it may be more your speed. Oh, one other thing. This diet makes you STINK. Horrible breath, horrible BO, and the smell of excess nitrogen exiting your body is none to pleasant either. Reason #2 to exit. Eat well and exercise will cure all woes. If I could only find a diet that would add 20" to my vertical leap, I'd be in heaven. Cheerios...no, wait...Atkins would say "Albumin!" Marc P.S. To keep this post on proper topic, I'd just like to say that I really like beer! Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 11:08:59 -0600 From: "Paul Niebergall" <pnieb at burnsmcd.com> Subject: Lunacy Dave Burley writes: >In addition to Odd and Even numbered days >providing a good excuse to brew, >December 22, 1999 will be the first full moon >to occur on a Winter Solstice in 133 years >and will be the only one in the next 100 years >or so. I don't know what planet Mr. Burley resides on, but here on earth, the winter solstice will occur on December 21 and the full moon will be on December 23. At least that's what my calendar shows. Of course Dave is probably using some sort of calendar that only shows odd days. Also, considering that the winter solstice occurs on or around December 22 each year and a lunar month is about 28 days long, you would expect to see the this event to happen about once every 28 years or so. BFD! Dave, are you just making this crap up (odd days, bazaar diet theories, moon rituals following a pagan calendar) because you are bored? Give it a break already. Paul Niebergall Burns & McDonnell pnieb at burnsmcd.com "Illegitimis non carborundum" Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 12:07:13 -0500 From: "Ludwig's" <dludwig at us.hsanet.net> Subject: Re: RIMS > >Nature of the RIMS. With a RIMS, you don't know whether you have > >homogeneous mash temperature (unless you use a mixer). My SHMS allows > >complete control over the mash temp with no question what the the mash > >temp is and also the temperature boosts are quick and precise. > > With any system you don't know until you check. There seems to be a lot of > "This system is best" kinda thing going on in the RIMS thread. There are, > as the saying goes, many ways to skin the cat. And so many factors, can you > be *sure* that one way is better then others? I know enough about beer to > know that there is a hell of a lot more to know. All I can say about my > RIMS is that after much tinkering (which I enjoy) it makes fabulous beer > that I can reproduce easily. It has strong points and weak points, but it > is reliable. I think the same could be said for any well constructed mash > system. I wasn't trying to say that my system "is best", although my choice of systems should give a clue which one I prefer. Just trying to point out what I think is a positive characteristic of the SHMS (mixer combined with a heat exchanger in the mash tun) and thought I'd point out an alternative mashing system considering the overwelming popularity of RIMS. And yes, if anyone thinks they have a good system or think they have the "best system" then, by all means, lets hear it! Dave Ludwig Flat Iron Brewery Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 12:14:12 -0500 From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: hop tea pH/FWH IBUs/High Gravity George DePiro writes ... >When making hop tea, you can lower the pH of the mixture to minimize >isomerization of the hop alpha acids. Isomerization occurs much more >efficiently at higher pH, [...] (I wouldn't bother; I would just >not boil the tea for too long). Lower pH may also reduce tannin extraction. I think you missed the point of pH adjustment George. A lower pH (say 5.5 rather than 7.5) for the hop tea boil is needed to prevent coarse flavors that arise from boiling hops at the higher pH. [M&BS pp 490] "It is known that increasing the pH of beer produces a coarser bitter flavor ...". My limited experience is that 'tap water' hop teas give a very coarse flavor and bittering - worthy of the drain. Perhaps this is because at pH values above 6.0 the beta acids (undesirable) solubility increases by 10X per 1.0pH - and these also isomerize and form compounds in the boil. - ----------- As for the IBUs calculation of a FWH. It has long been speculated that more IBUs can be lost if the hops are added before the break forms. Break material does contain considerable hops resins. Whether this has a significant impact on FWH IBU contributions I have no opinion, but would like to know. Dave Burley writes -- >The smoother >taste of FWH beers, even at a higher IBU could >be due to the loss of these tannins which may >not react with other LMW albuminous proteins There are very good reasons to believe that the oxidized gallotannins of the hops have a higher affinity toward forming protein/tannin bonds (break material) than do the oxidized sweet wort phenolics. That FWH is the flavor impact of removing more of the hops polyphenolics rather than those from the grist is an interesting idea. If this was the effect of FHW then we might expect that adding PVPP to a beer would have a similar effect as FWHing. And also that FWH would have less effect in a decocted wort ! - ----------- Bob Devine asks about high gravity brewing ... >Does anyone of a comparison study that shows the effect of >high gravity fermentation compared to constant gravity? > >In my home brewing I find that higher gravity will have >increased ester production but lower hop efficiency. HG brewing is well known to decrease head, tho' the reasons aren't simple. Hops IBU extraction is reduced in an HG boil. As you suggest the major impact is on yeast performance. Ludwig Narziss in a Brauwelt article considers HG brewing and makes a list of differences. The major ones are increased levels of acetaldehyde, SO2 and 2-acetolactate. LN. finds higher ester levels in the HG beer - but once diluted to the same gravity the levels are similar. Slight increase in fusels too. The suggestion is for a good aeration/oxygenation program, to use a "high performance" yeast and to lower the wort pH to 4.9 to 5.0 before pitching. There are many positive results of the acidification. Narziss defines 14.5P to 16P (1.058 - 1.064SG) as HIGH GRAVITY. This appears to correspond with other high gravity commercial brewing. -S Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 12:24:53 EST From: MaltHound at aol.com Subject: re: RE: RIMS In HBD #3191 rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald) asks: "This has me really wondering, how many of you RIMS'ers really know what the temperature of your mash is at. Most seem to use a sensor at the outflow point of the heat exchanger. But, this is a long way from sensing the mash temperature. How many sense the mash exit temperature?... All the PID's in the world cannot keep the mash within 1 degree F if the sensing is at the exchanger outlet." I would disagree with Ron's assertion that you have to get your controller feedback from the heater supply flow and actually have found that this causes more inconsistency of temperature. When I first built my ERIMS (Electric Recirculating Infusion Mash System) I had the thermistor temperature sensor in the wort flow at the mashtun outlet, i.e. before the heater chamber. This caused some serious problems with control of the temperature. I determined it was due primarily to this time lag for the heat to transition through the bed and hence to the sensor. This was causing a slow temperature oscillation where the wort could be overheated and even the rest temperatures were never as stable as I would have liked. What we are trying to do is contol the mash enzymes activity via temperature manipulation. Considering that the majority of the enzymes are in the liquid part of the mash, it seems most important to control the temperature of that fraction. Eventually, temperature equilibrium of the entire mash will be achieved if the appropriate temperture wort is continually pumped through the grain bed. To correct my problem I built a thermistor probe which is installed directly in the wort return flow manifold *after* the heater. In this configuration, as the temperature of the heater supply flow changes the controller uses more or less power to maintain a steady return flow temp. The heater controller now effectively controls the temperature of the wort return temp within a few tenths of a degree F. As I mash, I put my digital thermometer probe into the bed itself, so what I am monitoring is the mash temp. It's just the heater control that uses the thermistor feedback. There is still a certain amount of delay for any increase in temperature (temperture ramps) to fully transit through the grain bed, but I think this is just a fact of life and not to be worried about. The key thing is that the mash profile is repeatable and consistent. I think the best solution would be to create a dual sensor circuit that would control the wort exit temperature *and* shutdown the heater when the mash itself reaches optimum temp. One thing that makes a difference here is the grain bed depth. IMO, shallower grain beds are better for RIMS in all regards. The tough thing is maintaining a shallow grain bed when mashing ~20 lbs or more for 10+ gallon batches. Even my 45 Qt. rectangular cooler w/ manifold mashtun gets pretty full and the bed depth is ~10 inches. Okay, one final question. Anyone that made it this far into my post must be interested in this whole RIMS thing. I mentioned it in a previous post but nobody bit on it. Why is it exactly that people think it is so critical to change the mash temps rapidly? Have any definitive tests been done that support these theories? Fred Wills Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 09:41:33 -0800 From: "jim williams" <jim&amy at macol.net> Subject: cask breather for corny?? all this talk about cask ale in a corny got me thinking (again) about the possibility of a breather for a home set up. Does one exist? Can one be rigged? What about Jack Schmidling, Dan Listerman and all you other homebrew genius gadget riggers? Any ideas? If someone can design, build and sell a cheap one, I'm sure interest in cask ale in this country's homebreweries would go through the roof!!! Come on, guys, get to the drawing tables!! jim Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 12:59:51 -0500 From: "Charles E. Mryglot" <cmryglot at progress.com> Subject: DoppleBock, sparging and attenuation I was re-reading Richman's book on Bock and a couple of points came to mind: 1. Attenuation/Aeration. Somewhere in the section on fermentation there is a passing remark that these beers are well aerated prior to pitching...but no mention of process/procedure or to what degree. I had a bottle of Salvator and measured it's gravity at about 1.016. I read that the starting gravity is about 1.075. This would lead to an apparent attenuation of about 79%. None of the available lager yeasts claim attenuations this high. Is aeration alone the factor in achieving such high attenuation? 2. Sparging. The sparging technique described in the book is different than what I believe most of us use. Here he describes first doing a recycle on the mash and draining the tun. Then adding 45%(I might have this % wrong) of the sparge water... recycle and drain, add 30% sparge... recycle and drain and add the remainder and recycle and drain. (Reminds me of the technique for making a small beer from the 2nd runnings). He points out that you get a more efficient extraction ...but does not quantify. Does any one else use this technique? any info on improved extraction? Regards ChuckM Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 12:51:57 -0600 From: "Kelly" <kgrigg at diamonddata.com> Subject: RE:calories ain't caloriesq As far as I know...ONLY muscle burns fat...nothing else....fat doesn't burn itself..... :-) Kelly - --------------------------------- You said: Pound for pound, muscle burns three times the calories as the same weight of fat. Higher % muscle = higher metabolism rate Weight training is important. Just walking or running is not so important to muscle building, although it does not hurt to have a healthy cardio-vascular system. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 13:02:56 -0600 From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald) Subject: RE: Hugh Baird going going gone? From: "Mercer, David" <dmercer at path.org> >My local homebrew shop is buying up sacks of Hugh Baird malt because, the >owner tells me, they are pulling out of North America and will no longer be >available in the US or Canada. Could be, last time I went to purchase some British malt, I noticed the grain sack said American malt! I questioned the store owner and she said "Oh yeah, our supplier sent us this by mistake, but we tried it out and it is very good - just like British malt". So if you are prone to jumping to wild conclusions, you could jump on this one. It may be the clue that your shop owner knows of what he speaks. P.S. I went ahead and brewed with it, sitll in fermenter, but mashed and converted in about 40 minutes at 149F in my HERMS. Ron Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 12:52:56 -0600 From: Midwest Brewer <mgeorge at bridge.com> Subject: Calories, Carbs, Beer, Etc. I've been reading the latest threads on carbohydrates, calories, etc. and weight gain. I think the one thing that is missing here is metabolism. I can't recall the source (UNQUALIFIED STATEMENT ALERT!!!) but I do remember reading that alcohol also inhibits the metabolism rate of the body, which is a key player in how much of your caloric intake your body can burn. I've seen people that drink regularly that don't pack on the pounds and on the other scale, people who are moderation drinkers who stretch their size 36 waist pants to the limit (I'm one of those). As for those low / no carbohydrate diets...personally it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Your body needs carbs to survive - any nutritionist worth their salt should be able to tell you that. Just allowing yourself the fat laden burger but not the bun doesn't make much sense at all. A lower fat well balanced food program and moderate exercise diet is likely to yield better results than one that is just low in carbohydrates. I have a nephew who is a classic example of this - he works out (but not obsessively), eats in moderation and watches what he eats. He's in great shape. A final observation: Perhaps the HBD server fund could be subsidized a bit by all the FREE ADVERTISING that has been going on here lately. You people know who you are... MWB Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 13:49:05 -0600 From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald) Subject: RIMS Fred Wills comments: > would disagree with Ron's assertion that you have to get your controller >feedback from the heater supply flow and actually have found that this causes >more inconsistency of temperature. ...snip... >I determined it was due primarily to this time >lag for the heat to transition through the bed and hence to the sensor. This >was causing a slow temperature oscillation where the wort could be overheated >and even the rest temperatures were never as stable as I would have liked. This time lag is precisely the subject we are concerned with. You can view the time lag several ways, one, as a time lag, but another way to view it would be a temperature differential. I am suggesting that by using the liquor input temperature to control your mash temperature boosting may be misleading you into thinking you are at a certain temp for X minutes, and in reality, you are way off the mark. ...snip... >Eventually, temperature equilibrium of the entire mash will be >achieved if the appropriate temperture wort is continually pumped through the >grain bed. Yes, but eventually would not be my first choice! >To correct my problem I built a thermistor probe which is installed directly >in the wort return flow manifold *after* the heater. In this configuration, >as the temperature of the heater supply flow changes the controller uses more >or less power to maintain a steady return flow temp. The heater controller >now effectively controls the temperature of the wort return temp within a few >tenths of a degree F. You have a steady return flow temp, what I would like is a more even and known mash temp. ...snip... >There is still a certain amount of delay for any increase in temperature >(temperture ramps) to fully transit through the grain bed, but I think this >is just a fact of life and not to be worried about. Oh, here is where I have gone astray, I musta been worried! :>) >The key thing is that >the mash profile is repeatable and consistent. I think the best solution >would be to create a dual sensor circuit that would control the wort exit >temperature *and* shutdown the heater when the mash itself reaches optimum >temp. So we can agree sometimes. Fortunately for me, because I do not want to come off seeming like an argumentative malcontent. >One thing that makes a difference here is the grain bed depth. IMO, >shallower grain beds are better for RIMS in all regards. I agree, and here is where I may someday just have to give up my insulated Igloo. The diameter is much smaller than it would be with a half barrel keg, and so is the mash screen. I wonder if going to a keg, and loosing the insulating aspect of the Igloo would be a good trade off. I think ample wort flow is the ultimate objective. Ron Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 15:04:17 -0500 From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at welchlink.welch.jhu.edu> Subject: NA beer and calories Ron LaBorde wrote: >I for one do think that Dave's message on beer and dietary concepts, to use >an old hackneyed phrase, 'hit the nail on the head'. Seems more like "Hit his head on a nail!" >Answer this: If Ethanol has most of the calories, why does non-alcoholic >beer still have about the same calories as regular? Wow, good question! Are they really the same? There is quite a range of caloric value to beer. Where do most NA beers clock in? A typical pint of beer has from 10 - 20 grams of ethanol in it. According to Dave Burley, beer has 5 grams of carbos and regular beer about 12 grams which sounds reasonable (though at this point I'm about ready to consider /anything/ Dave says suspect until independently verified!!) At any rate, if these figures are correct then one can expect there is at least as much ethanol as carbohydrate in a beer (on a per weight basis) and since ethanol has a higher caloric content than does carbohydrate (also on a per weight basis) ethanol will usually comprise >50% of the total calories derived from beer consumption. I don't know the answer to your NA beer question. Perhaps there are more carbohydrates in NA beer and this makes up for the "missing" calories normally derived from ethanol? Since fat in beer is negligible the only real sources of calories are coming from carbohydrates and ethanol. The total calories will be utilizable calories from carbohydrate + utilizable calories from ethanol.Obviously, you can keep the same total caloric content by increasing one of the sources while the other decreases. -Alan Meeker Baltimore, MD Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 15:41:40 -0500 From: "Vinbrew Supply" <devans at greenapple.com> Subject: Hugh Baird going? Only thing I have heard was that Hugh Baird is now owned by Moray Firth(actually they merged) who owns Beeston. Talking with the lady from consolidated beverage(the distributor of Beeston)she said Baird is having problems with the supplier of the Hugh Baird Malt. (or something to that effect)I told her of the "rumor" of Baird being pulled out of the states and she more or less said Yup! Especially in California. (she also said her information is from hearsay no factual proof has been presented to her) Perhaps they are going to be pushing the Beeston. A rather fine grain in itself. Now she did say that most people have been very pleased with the Beeston line of Crystal as a subsitute for Hugh Bairds. If you have never tried the Beeston line, I encourage you too. It is top notch. The person who would really know somthing would be Mid America Brewing in Min. As they distribute Hugh Baird Doug Vinbrew Supply 1-800-905-9059 Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 13:13:05 -0800 (PST) From: "Mark E. Hogenmiller" <hogenmiller at yahoo.com> Subject: Irish Red Recipe Wanted Does anyone have a All Grain Irish Red or John Courage Amber Clone? A review of the Cats Meow and others reveals little. I suspect this is because it is not an AHA recognized style. Private E-mail is fine. Mark Hogenmiller Merrimack Valley Brewer in Exile Patuxent River, MD hogenmiller at yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 08:15:11 +1000 From: smorgan at expressdata.com.au Subject: re coopers sparkling ale afternoon for the coopers speakling ale use the franklins malt...schooner is for largers. the white labs yeast for the job i have seen at ESB brewing in randwick nsw, www.esb.net.au. is the criticism at using POR hops for flavouring directed at the major Australian brewers?? I dare you to try and make a copy of the coopers strongt ale....let alone try and buy it! scotty smorgan at expressdata.com.au ====================================================================== Visit the Express Data Web Site - http://www.expressdata.com.au for pricing, product information and order status information. This email is confidential. If it includes quoted prices, unless otherwise stated, validity is 14 days from the date of this message. Sales tax, GST and delivery charges are excluded unless noted. Acceptance of any quotation or order is subject to Express Data's usual terms and conditions of sale. Express Data has implemented anti-virus software, and whilst all care is taken, it is the recipient's responsibility to ensure that any attachments are scanned for viruses prior to use. This email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 16:25:41 -0500 From: "gdepiro" <gdepiro at mindspring.com> Subject: cask ale in general and in cornies Hi all, I serve cask beers every weekend at the brewpub. The first time we did this, we didn't know how it would sell, so I just made up 10 gallons in a couple of cornies. I didn't bother with CO2 at all (CAMRA would be pleased). I simply put a gas out fitting on the gas side, with a piece of cotton stuck into the hose barb (we had a fruit fly problem when we first opened; I didn't want them to have access to the beer!). The liquid end was hooked up to the handpump and voila, cask beer! I have found (by accidental experimentation) that a nearly empty cask of beer will age quite nicely, even with no blanket CO2, if it is kept cold when not being served. To my great surprise, I have found that the hoppier beers taste "rounder" after being aged 1 week at 42F in the presence of air (soft spile in firkin). The downside is that the beer is also almost completely flat, but a sparkler on the handpump can be used to muscle a head out of it. The moral of this story is that if you think you'll finish the beer in a week or so, just try keeping it cold between sessions and don't bother with CO2. You may like how the beer ages. Of course, the beer will be too cold for the first hour or so, which may be annoying. As for dry hopping cask beers: I usually use pellets, which I put in a homebrew-size hop bag. None of the hop material escapes into the beer, but utilization of the hops is less and getting the bags out of the firkins is a real pain in the butt. You could do the same thing in a corny keg and be able to easily retrieve the hop bag. I have used homegrown, whole , fresh hops in a couple of firkins. These need not be put in a bag because the firkin tap has small holes that will prevent them from getting into the customer's glass. The cones remained remarkably intact, anyway (I guess because I didn't dry them first). They were kind of a pain to get out of the firkin, too. You could use whole hops in a corny keg and simply tie a hop bag around the bottom of the liquid out tube (which would be the CO2 in tube if you are dispensing from the corny by gravity). Have fun! George de Piro C.H.Evans Brewing Company at the Albany Pump Station (518) 447-9000 Malted Barley Appreciation Society Homebrew Club http://hbd.org/mbas Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 16:11:36 -0600 From: bergbrew at juno.com Subject: RE: Hugh Baird going going gone? I too, heard the rumor and immediately called Great Western (the US Distributor) to get the 411. Here's the scoop: Hugh Baird *is* oversold, however, they are going to continue to supply the US and are going to ship unmalted two-row to GW for Crystal malt production. Not much different from when they were producing it in Belgium. The process will be overseen by Hugh Baird maltsters. So, fear not, Hugh Baird will still be around. David Berg ___________________________________________________________________ Why pay more to get Web access? Try Juno for FREE -- then it's just $9.95/month if you act NOW! Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 16:28:27 -0600 From: rlabor at lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald) Subject: RE: RIMS Fred asks: Okay, one final question. Anyone that made it this far into my post must be interested in this whole RIMS thing. I mentioned it in a previous post but nobody bit on it. Why is it exactly that people think it is so critical to change the mash temps rapidly? Have any definitive tests been done that support these theories? Good question, and one that could probably have many answers, but I will take a stab at it. My first guess is that it would be more consistent, that is, if someone publishes a recipe for a certain temp profile, it would be best if it could be reproduced by others with the same timing. Of course, how can one accomplish this temp profile to begin with. Well, large breweries, classical breweries, and infusion techniques have established temp profiles, and when we try to imitate or reproduce some of these beers, we would like to be able to better control the temp profile in such a way as to let us achieve the desired results. It may be that some other techniques or different recipe could produce a good imitation of a classic beer, but as a starting point, I would think we want to keep our options and flexibility open. Second, if we want to be at a certain x temp for x minutes, then ramp up to x2 temp and hold for x2 minutes, then we must think of a slow ramp as pollution, noise, and unwanted side effects. If it takes 15 minutes to get to x2, then how long are we at x? Third, any delay ramping up adds time to our brew length, although immensely enjoyable to myself, a bit less to others perhaps, (my wife, the lawn, the painting projects, the new brewing rig additions,,,). So any reduction in brew length allows more brews/lifetime. If you ramp up to mashout, this is a second delay that must be added to the total waste. In reality, I really think it does not matter much, I have used and abused many recipes, and have never made a beer I did not like, just one, when I added 750 ml of anise liquor to a wheat beer. I got my liquorice taste alright, but I found out I was not as fond of liquorice as I had previously imagined. Ron Ronald La Borde - Metairie, Louisiana - rlabor at lsumc.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 19:08:45 -0500 From: Jim Liddil <jliddil at vms.arizona.edu> Subject: rims and running Ronald La Borde asked: >This has me really wondering, how many of you RIMS'ers really know what the >temperature of your mash is at. Most seem to use a sensor at the outflow >point of the heat exchanger. But, this is a long way from sensing the mash >temperature. How many sense the mash exit temperature? For me I thought about using multiple temp probes. I set my system up and put foam insulation on all the pipe and tubing. I also insulated the mash tun (stainless pot) and use a one inch piece of polystyrene on the lid. I then checked the mash temp compared to the reading on the PID and they were in sync. I have kept my pipe runs short and I preheat my water to strike temp prior to adding the grain. I really have no problems with temp lag, but I also only do five gallon batches. I think reverse rims could work but I'm not an engineer and just getting a RIMS setup and working smoothly was enough of a time consumer. And besides it works great. I never get compacted beds as long as I am careful about opening and closing valves in a smooth fashion. But I must say I still love my JS Easymasher for it's pure simplicity and bombproofness. I love how Dave B. skirts the running/carb/kenyan issue. As a scientist and runner who has run his fair share fo 15k, half and marathons over the years, and also read a great deal of excercise physiology journal articles, I must say I find what he said unsupported by anything I have ever read or experienced (n=1). But then again I assume Dave is a marathoner who has managed to run PRs every year. :-) > Low carb diets stress a high protein intake > so that you will be able to build muscle > > during the diet and end up with a higher > metabolism rate per body pound at the > you finish this diet Excess protein leads to it being dumped into the urine if you are not utilizing it all > Exercise during dieting is not to burn extra > calories as is so often quoted, but to build > muscle Damn, you mean I was supposed to get big muscles running 50+ miles a week. :-) And have you done the calculations to see how many calories you burn when you run vs weight training? And who has a higher sedontary metabolism? I'll except journal references. And I know weihg training is important to maintain muscle mass as we age and can improve running performance. But marathon runnners don't want a Michael Johnson build. Oh and so this has a beer mention, I'll bring up Hashers, the "Drinking Club with a Running Problem" Ducking and running Jim Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 19:23:22 EST From: "Gary Barbatelli" <garybarbatelli at hotmail.com> Subject: re: Hugh Baird going, going, gone The Brewer's Outlet in West Palm Beach is a distributor of Pauls malts from the UK. Today the owner commented that Pauls was pulling out of the US market because they could sell their entire production in Europe. Maybe there's something to it. The Briess 2-row Pale Ale malt is okay though. Cheers ______________________________________________________ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 21:02:59 EST From: JohnT6020 at aol.com Subject: Re: Evil of carbs Flossmoor IL 99-12-13 at 1955 CST The fattening power of any food [drink] is the calories. Normal beer has only a few carbohydrates; its calories come from the EtOH. Near beer may have a significant load of calories from carbohydrates. Neither fat not protein contribute any significant calories to beer. Return to table of contents
[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]
HTML-ized on 12/14/99, by HBD2HTML version 1.2 by K.F.L.
webmaster at hbd.org, KFL, 10/9/96