HOMEBREW Digest #3305 Fri 21 April 2000

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Historic Brewers ("NATHAN T Moore")
  RE: Primetabs (dstedman)
  Celis/Belgian Wit spices ("St. Patrick's")
  Yeast Q's- Jim Wallace_ Dr. Cone ("Rob Moline")
  Yeast Q's- Alan Meeker- Dr. Cone ("Rob Moline")
  pump for brewing (Jaxson28)
  RE: But The Party Ends For Rick ("Pat Babcock")
  RE: Iodophor + heating, cooling and water stuff ("C.D. Pritchard")
  Crash cooling (Richard Johnson)
  RE: RE: Iodophor + heating, cooling and water stuff ("Pat Babcock")
  more yeast questions for Dr. Cone (Marc Sedam)
  Milwaukee restaurants (Mark Kellums)
  First Wort hopping ("Peter gunczy")
  Priming Mag. Drive Pumps ("S. Wesley")
  attenuation ("Crossno, Glyn")
  RE:Pump Problems ("Donald D. Lake")
  HDMS (Dave Burley)
  Banned in Burradoo (Rick Magnan)
  Pumps and Pumping ("Philip J Wilcox")
  Re: Acidifying Sparge Water (Jim)
  pumps (Susan/Bill Freeman)
  6th Boneyard Brew-Off, Champaign IL (Joel Plutchak)
  Re: pump questions (Paul Shick)
  RE:  screw-on filters ("Dave Hinrichs")
  fishing ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  Brita and screw-on filters ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  Thanks Dr.Cone (Rick)
  Questions for Dr. Cone ("Michael Rose")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 10:57:10 -0600 From: "NATHAN T Moore" <NTMOORE at SMTPGATE.DPHE.STATE.CO.US> Subject: Historic Brewers I have been meaning to throw this blatant (however, not commercial) advertisement out to the hbd for a while now. I just wanted everyone to know about the SCA Brew Historic Brewing Page. Although this webpage is designed for the SCA community, I feel there is a lot of good information that many of you might find interesting. Included are a comprehensive Library of historic and modern brewing articles and a growing section on cultures and customs, the Great Mead Yeast Survey, an interesting Links page for historic brewers, and several other features, including many of interest to the SCA brewer (the SCA Brew list, calendar of events, a guild listing, competition and documentation guidance, etc.) Oh yes, and a great poem on the index page from 1637. Hope you enjoy, and sorry for the intrusion. Nathan Moore Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 12:11:24 -0500 From: dstedman at csc.com Subject: RE: Primetabs Tim Burkhart writes: >How about one with Charlie Papazian's head on it? Gosh. I knew that he wasn't the most popular person around the HBD, but this seems kind of extreme. ;-) Dan Stedman Brewing this weekend in Minnetonka, MN Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 14:28:09 -0500 From: "St. Patrick's" <stpats at bga.com> Subject: Celis/Belgian Wit spices The latest issue of Zymurgy contains a nice article about Celis by Greg Kitsock. I've delayed responding about the Celis spices for a couple of weeks due to the real news about Celis but it seems appropriate now. There is no one named Celis employed at Celis brewery. Pierre is back in Belgium. Peter and Christine will remain in US. I have no insight as to the long term future of the brewery. In the short term, they will continue to produce all the beers as well as more contract brewing. With regards to the spices, first a correction. I incorrectly stated they do not use curacao orange peel. In fact, curacao is the only orange peel ever used at Celis. (I also carry sweet Mexican orange peel and I'm sure that is what Pierre saw at the shop and brought to my attention.) I won't attempt to explain the me-too post of the gentleman from Minnesota in which he also knew it wasn't curacao and then stated it was two other orange peels. By the way, the herb in the Dubel is quasia. I could get it but don't anticipate stocking it. Little bit goes a long way. Dubel uses bittering hops only, Northern Brewer at 20 - 26 ibu. As I've mentioned before on the digest, no early addition hops in the White (13-15 ibu) and no lactic fermentation, just lactic acid. I have the coriander used by Celis now. Physically, it is very small, about 1/4 the diameter of the seeds I have been selling. Additionally, and most importantly, the flavor is remarkably different. It tastes of oranges and pepper whereas the previous coriander has a celery flavor. The article states Celis gets spices from California. The gentleman from Minnesota told the digest Celis gets coriander and orange peel from Memphis. My apologies to those who interpreted the original post as patronizing. I certainly didn't mean to offend anyone choice of ingredients or recipe. Lynne O'Connor St. Patrick's of Texas Brewers Supply 1828 Fleischer Drive Austin, Texas 78728 USA 512-989-9727 www.stpats.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 16:25:21 -0500 From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at isunet.net> Subject: Yeast Q's- Jim Wallace_ Dr. Cone From: "Jim Wallace" <jwallace at crocker.com> Subject: Yeast quest for Dr. Cone Dr Cone: I have several questions on culturing and propogating yeast from specific brewers. 1) do you feel that it is possible to capture the character yeast and culture effectivly from a fresh bottle of beer (Chimay, DeDole, Westvletern, Rochforte, etc)? 2) In the case of several of the belgian beers where multi strains are used, can this multi character be preserved in simple culturing (ie simply streaking to a plate and taking samples from several colonies) 3)any comments on pros and cons of yeast head skimming relating to a)total fermentation process and b)changes in character of future fermentations when recycling this yeast 4) any comments on the dry yeast available from Belgium/France/GB ________________________________ Jim Wallace Jim, The one thing that I enjoy about working with home wine and beer makers is their adventuresome spirit and willingness to experiment, with the chance of occasionally losing a batch of beer or wine. Some mishaps and mistakes are still not too bad to drink. My suggestion is that you give it a try. You have nothing to lose, except perhaps a small trial batch, and you may find a strain that is just what you are looking for. Having said that let me make the following comments: Question 1). It depends on how old the beer is. If it is too old the yeast may all be dead or will have lost some of their better fermentation characteristics. The only way that you will know is to try. Some beers are pasteurized by the brewery after the secondary fermentation to prevent the possibility of spoilage while on the shelf, so all will be dead. Some breweries filter the beer and add a bottom fermenting yeast plus a little fresh wort for the secondary fermentation in the bottle. The main fermenting yeast does not necessarily settle or flocculate well, so it is removed and a fresh bottom yeast that flocculates well is added. The yeast that you will find in most wheat beer is not the main fermenting yeast. Some breweries will remove most of the yeast leaving about 0.5-1.0 X 10/6th. yeast /ml. and bottle just before all of the sugar has been consumed allowing the final fermentation to take place in the bottle. So you take your chances. Question 2). It is much more difficult than you might think to duplicate flora profile by isolating pure cultures from the mixture and trying to recombine them in the correct ratio. Most beer yeast colonies look similar when grown on a malt or YM agar. Each colony will test the same in the API sugar profile test. Each colony will look alike under the microscope or too similar to separate the strains. The only way to identify the different strains is by DNA profile. The mixture is quite dynamic and most attempts to achieve the same ratio in the strain population will alter the population and therefore the taste of the final beer. It could turn out to be quite a research project. My guru on this subject, Dr. Tobias Fishborn, suggests that if you wish to use the yeast from Belgium beer then it is best to use the yeast directly from the bottle. Just inoculate it into a sterile wort and begin a starter. There is no guarantee that the population will grow up at the same ratio as at the original brewery and produce the same flavor profile, but it is your best bet and you will probably produce a very good beer. Question 3) Early skimming can have positive effects on later fermentation performance. You also remove protein and hop compounds which can cause harsh bitterness which will be good for the original batch but will be added back with the repitched yeast unless you do a good job of washing the yeast. Question 4) I have no comments on the yeast that you mentioned other than most companies that produce beer yeast in the dry form have dramatically improved the quality of their products in recent years and you should be comfortable in evaluating any of them. I can speak personally for the dramatic improvement in the Dan Star Ale strains of beer yeast: Nottingham, Windsor, Manchester, London and soon a Lager yeast. Clayton Cone Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 16:45:49 -0500 From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at isunet.net> Subject: Yeast Q's- Alan Meeker- Dr. Cone From: Alan Meeker [mailto:ameeker at welchlink.welch.jhu.edu] Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 7:44 AM To: brewer at isunet.net Subject: Clayton Cone question - 2 In general, at what level (what yeast density) would you consider a wort to be "underpitched?" To simplify let's assume that it is an all-grain wort with plenty of nutrients such as FAN and that it has been well-aerated and is not high gravity. On the flip side - at what level would you consider a beer to be "overpitched?" There have been a few comments lately to the effect that this is undesirable. In your opinion, how valid is the evidence for negative effects of under/over pitching? Thanks Alan Meeker Alan, There is no single pitching rate number that below is under pitching and above is overpitching as you already know. The pitching rate depends on the physiological condition or health of the yeast. Fresh yeast directly from a propagation system is very active and the pitching rate can be as low as 5 X 10/6th. cells / ml. wort. The longer the yeast is in storage and the more times the yeast has been pitched the lower is the activity and the higher should be the pitching rate. It can take a pitching rate as high as 15 - 20 X 10/6th./ ml. wort to do the job in the same length of time. Caveats: All things being equal, seeding/pitching rate effects fermentation time. Low seeding/pitching rates takes more generation cycles for the yeast to reach the stationary phase and a longer over all fermentation time. This allows time for spoilage organisms. Also more generation time can increase ester production, which can be good or bad according to the beer makers taste. High seeding/pitching rates speeds up fermentation time and give better insurance that any spoilage organisms will be overwhelmed, but has the potential of bringing over off flavors, higher ester and organic acids and excessive yeasty taste if the yeast is not very healthy. Frequent introduction of a fresh culture is recommended. There is a trend towards increasing the pitching rate as long as the yeast is healthy. A few added comments: Portions of some strains of beer yeast loose their ability to ferment maltotriose under certain conditions requiring higher pitching rates to do the same job. Frequent introduction of a fresh culture is recommended. Pitching rate depends on beer style. Dark worts have less amino acids available for the yeast and do not have an optimum sugar composition. Both increase in pitching rate and added yeast nutrients are required. The higher the gravity the higher is the osmotic pressure and the need for increased pitching rate. Pitching rates depend on the fermentation temperature. Lager beer ferments at low temperatures and need 15-20 X 10/6th./ ml. Beer yeast in the Active Dry form minimizes the concern regarding repitching rates. With a fresh economical packet of yeast for each batch, you can quickly determine the exact amount of yeast that you require for your style of beer and the length of time that you desire for the fermentation to be completed. Clayton Cone Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 17:58:00 EDT From: Jaxson28 at aol.com Subject: pump for brewing Can anyone point the way to a fairly inexpensive pume that I can use to pump my post -boiled wort -thru my heat exchanger and into my carboys. It has to meet the requirements of taking temps close to 212 F. I've had no help with the Grainger folks . Can anyone help? Perferably stainless or a non-reative substance that will not contaminate my beer. Feel free to e-mail me at Jaxson28 at aol.com. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 18:35:22 -0400 From: "Pat Babcock" <babcockp at mediaone.net> Subject: RE: But The Party Ends For Rick Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... Phil, the Reigning Baron of Buradoo sez... > have a better solution for you but one > possibility is to ferment in a plastic > fermenter with a tap at bottom (spigot > - I believe is the Yankee term). This > removes the necessity for syphoning > completely. It is a simple matter to > gravity feed via plastic tubing for all > racking purposes. Um, but wouldn't drawing all the trub from the bottom (where the "spigot" is) kind of make racking a moot point? I mean, not that I'd question your judgement oh great baron, but, wouldn't it? Sorta? Maybe??? I humbly bow and leave your presence... - See ya! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at hbd.com Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org HBD Web Site http://hbd.org The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock "Just a cyber-shadow of his former brewing self..." Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 20:15:29 From: "C.D. Pritchard" <cdp at chattanooga.net> Subject: RE: Iodophor + heating, cooling and water stuff Robert Arguello posted in #3301: >ON A SIDE NOTE: I am often asked if storing a working solution of iodophor >in corny kegs will extend its life, or if using distilled water would help. >The answer is sure..to some degree, but just how cheap are we? It only >costs a few cents to mix up a 5 gallon batch of iodophor. Who cares if we >can get an extra day or two out of it? We're REALLY cheap Robert! <g> Just another POV: I store the solution in a glass carboy between uses and haven't made a fresh solution in at least two years / 11 brews. Top off the carboy with tap water after each use and add Iodophor solution if needed before use (judge the need by color of the solution). Used about 8 oz. of concentrate in that time. Not making a fresh batch before each racking has saved 160 gals. of water, 12 oz. of Iodophor, and (a biggie with me) alot of time waiting for the carboy to fill (and overfill when I get bored and wander off!) with water 32 times. I'm an impatient tight-wad so YMMV! A tip: A rubber carboy stopper will corrode from the iodine vapor (or is it fumes?) and ultimately prevent a good seal so stick the stopper in a baggie before tightly capping the carboy with it. I've never tried a cornie for storage, but I suspect the same fate would befall the lid o-ring. - -------- Jim <jimala at apical.com> posted in part: >...I have found that the simple act of shaking one's >immersion chiller gently in the cooling wort decreases the time required to >cool it dramatically... This technique would of course >be difficult to do with a built in immersion coil in the boiling vessel. :) Jim's absolutely right about shaking the chiller. It can be verified with a simple and quick experimetn: check the temp. of a static chiller's discharge water then shake the chiller or rock the boiler and note the sharp increase in temp. A powered stirrer boosts the heat transfer even more and is ideal for use with the built-in coil Jim mentions. I use a stirrer with an immersion chiller for it's speed and 'casue it eliminates the tedious shaking or rocking. When used in the boiler during the boil, it increases hops utilization by ~1/3 in a 60 min. boil. It would work well with HERMS too- it would permit a shorter HX coil plus controlling the stirrer RPMs could be used as another way to adjust the recirc. temp. c.d. pritchard cdp at chattanooga.net http://hbd.org/cdp/ http://chattanooga.net/~cdp/ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 21:00:34 -0400 From: Richard Johnson <ricjohnson at surry.net> Subject: Crash cooling When crash cooling in a carboy, what is the best kind of airlock to use to avoid the suck-back (technical term) of the liquid in the airlock. I'm thinking cotton soaked in alcohol in the airlock. Richard Johnson Mount Airy, NC Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 23:01:26 -0400 From: "Pat Babcock" <babcockp at mediaone.net> Subject: RE: RE: Iodophor + heating, cooling and water stuff Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... C.D. Pritchard writes... >> I've never tried a cornie for storage, but I suspect the same fate would befall the lid o-ring. << I store mine in a cornie. Have for about six years. Never detected any noticeable damage to the O-Rings or any other seals. YMMV. - See ya! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at hbd.com Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org HBD Web Site http://hbd.org The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock "Just a cyber-shadow of his former brewing self..." Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 00:58:00 -0400 From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> Subject: more yeast questions for Dr. Cone I am so blown away by the quality of Dr. Cone's responses that I'll pose another: Could you please comment on the ability for "regular" ale and lager yeasts to ferment out wort to levels >12% abv in the final product? Is there a good way to handle the yeast/fermentation to ensure it doesn't stop working early (besides a healthy starter)? Are certain beer yeasts better than others for this? Thanks, Marc Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 00:39:50 -0500 From: Mark Kellums <kellums at springnet1.com> Subject: Milwaukee restaurants We'll be in Milwaukee the 28th of April attending the Craft Brewers trade show. Can anyone recommend a good restaurant close to the Midwest Express Center?? Thanks very much. Mark Kellums Decatur IL. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 19:27:05 +1000 From: "Peter gunczy" <pcgunczy at primus.com.au> Subject: First Wort hopping Hi guys Looks like I've finally found my place in life and thats with you lot of eccentric and beer obsessed ladies and gentlemen Living down under has its disadvantages as far as brewing is concerned and one is years behind in homebrewing. Can any one assist me with principals in First Wort Hopping e.g. Amounts of hops length of boil are flowers preferred over pellets can it be done using malt extract Many Thanks Peter Gunczy Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 06:29:45 -0500 From: "S. Wesley" <WESLEY at MAINE.MAINE.EDU> Subject: Priming Mag. Drive Pumps From: S. A. Wesley Re: Priming Mag Drive Pumps. In HBD #3304-2 Brent Dowell asks about priming the 6144MM HIGH TEMP pump he purchased from Moving Brews. I have the same pump which I use with an oversize chiller. This prevents the pump from gravity priming, even though it is well below the kettle. My solution to this problem was to install a "T" between the pump outlet and the ball valve which controlls flow to the Chiller. On the stem of the "T" I installed a second valve which has a short length of tubing to direct the flow to a slop container. Before starting the pump I prime it by closing the valve to the chiller and opening the valve on the stem of the "T". Liquid flows out of the stem valve which is then closed leaving the pump full of fluid. You can then start the pump, open the ball valve and proceed as normal. Regards, Simon Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 07:35:09 -0500 From: "Crossno, Glyn" <Glyn.Crossno at cubic.com> Subject: attenuation by Michael Froehlich (froeh at trojan.naa.rockwell.com) Posted to Homebrew Digest #1747, June 2, 1995 Our club, the Long Beach Homebrewers, conducted a yeast experiment. Yeast FG - ---------------- - ------ 1 Red Star Bread Ale Yeast 1.009 2 Glenbrew Ale Yeast 1.004 3 Windsor Ale Yeast 1.014 4 Doric Ale Yeast 1.015 5 Munton & Fison Ale Yeast 1.012 6 Wyeast Scottish Ale Yeast 1.008 7 London Ale Yeast 1.016 8 Nottingham Ale Yeast 1.015 9 Coopers Ale Yeast 1.012 10 Wyeast Bohemian Lager Yeast, second generation 1.011 11 Telfords Ale Yeast 1.015 12 Telfords Ale Yeast, second generation 1.015 13 Edme Ale Yeast Unknown TTFN, Glyn Crossno Estill Springs, TN Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 07:49:40 -0400 From: "Donald D. Lake" <dake at gdi.net> Subject: RE:Pump Problems Brent Dowell wrote that he had problems moving hot liquids with his pump. I also purchased a high temp pump a few months ago and have had difficulty. Pumping cool water on the test run was no problem at all. Pumping hot water on game day was a different story. Bill at Moving Brews was kind enough to spend some time with me on the phone to give me tips on pushing the hot water. 1. Make sure the intake to the pump is fully flooded 2. Close off the out valve before starting the pump 3. Start the pump and then slowly (and I mean SLOWLY!!) crack the out valve to build up pressure 4. Wait, wait and wait With my set up, I have to lift the hot sparge water about 8 feet off the floor. Just getting the hot liquid up the hose to the Gott Cooler can take 10 min. or so. Then, given the slow rate of flow (much much slower than pumping cool water), it can take another 25 mins to fill the 10 gal container. As you can tell, performance of the pump (March rated to 250degrees) does not meet my expectations. According to Bill, there is nothing wrong with it - its just the limitation of the materials & technology (and maybe my technique). I don't pretend to understand the mechanics of why the pump struggles with hot water. My purpose in getting the pump, was to make my brewing sessions safer and easier. Safer - yes, easier? - no. Dealing with the pump has created a whole new set of issues that complicates my brewing. I now find myself going back to 5 gal batches because I can safely lift that much sparge water without dealing with that damn pump. Don Lake Windermere Brewing Co (Registered trademark of Lake Water Brewery) (Wholly-owned subsidiary of Canal Water Beverages Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 09:13:21 -0400 From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: HDMS Brewsters: Keith MacNeal asks if having the lid partially on during the majority of the boil won't cause HDMS to remain in the wort and cause a buildup of DMS in the beer as has often been stated in past HBD issues. Now, this old saw is something which WILL help fill up the Baron of Burabadoo's dustbin, IMHO. Having the lid partially on will not impede the loss of something as highly volatile and as stream distillable as DMS and it's precursors. The experiment I suggested should help you decide that for your system, anyway. Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 09:49:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Rick Magnan <magnan at jimmy.harvard.edu> Subject: Banned in Burradoo Evidently I have raised the ire of the Baron and am now a marked man in Burradoo with the threat of being fed Ray's skunk oil on my head. Phil, if you think thats going to keep me at bay, you might be right. We have the real things roaming about neighborhood, the little varmints lurking around every corner. Even the constant drone of the neighbor's landscaping crews blowing about dirt and leaves and grass clippings isn't enough to drive them away. In fact, summer before last, whilst out on the back porch (we have much in common) working the barbeque, I turned around to reach for my glass of (I know, it should have been a homebrew) red wine, and there I was staring into the beady little eyes of a rather large skunk not more than 3 feet away. Petrified, paralyzed and potentially putrified, I was torn between sacrificing dinner and making a mad dash for safety. My guest politely turned and calmly went his own way, a happy ending indeed. As to why you were singled out for questioning, it was your statement: "When I first started brewing I worried about so many things that I should and shouldn't do and it all came from reading books and listening to people who I thought sounded like they knew it all.". But as you seem to have pulled back from the book part I guess thats that. That the HBD contains some dubious do's and don'ts along with a fair amount of BS is a truth we all find self evident. Perhaps it would placate the "all this technical discussion is unnecessary" camp and free them from the worry that the rest of us are so lacking in judgment that we are unable to decide for ourselves what may or may not be useful or interesting if we were to add a disclaimer to the top of the digest: "Most of this fancy, technical stuff that follows is not necessary to brew good beer and some may even be incorrect". Then, could the rest of us go about discussing homebrewing and beer in the manner we choose? Paul's experienced fisherman analogy is all fine and good. But this experience needs to be shared if its going to benefit the rest of us. Thanks to those who mailed or posted suggestions how to avoid losing my syphons of (cold) lagers. Since this never happens to my ales, I think letting the beer warm up for a day is likely the simplest solution. I'll let you know next year as I just bottled the last of the season recently. Even this humble question can be an example of the simple vs technical debate. Really, I just want to be able to rack the beer w/o losing the syphon but if someone actually takes the time and energy to explain whats taking place at a chemistry/biochem level - sure its unnecessary but I think it might be interesting. And thanks to Dr Cone for the great information and to the janitors for making the HBD possible. Rick Magnan Wellesley, Mass Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 09:52:27 -0400 From: "Philip J Wilcox" <pjwilcox at cmsenergy.com> Subject: Pumps and Pumping Brent, I have had the same pump for 3 years and have experience all of the above at one time or another. 1 Priming. It is not a self priming pump. I start by blowing back the liquid in the tube after the pump till it is all above the pump. This lets me know if there is any mechanical blockage of a valve or whatnot. I then close the valve at the end of my flexible tubing, I could just as easily close the one directly coming off the pump. Yes I have 2. (More later on this) This keeps any liquid from going through the pump. This way when I do open this valve I get the maximum throughput (least amount of drag) to the pump for priming, I then turn on the pump and if I am having a good day I can get it all done before any wort makes it out of the system, if not, that's why I have a 2 quart measuring cup handy. 2 Losing the prime. Somewhere you have a leak. Shit happens. Its very aggravating and it happens all the time. The guilty party is usually a hose clamp. those bastards work there way loose all the time especially at higher temps. The hardest one to find is the valve coming out of the kettle It will suck air but not leak wort--go figure. It could even be a soldered elbow... 3 Recirculating. This is why I have 2 valves on my flexible line after the pump. The one on the pump is there so I can remove the flexible hose if necessary to clear the line. The one on the end of the line is convenient for making minor adjustments in flow. (You don't have to bend over to tweak your flow rate). The valve on the pump has to be 1/2" pipethread and it has a 1/2 ball in it. The one at the end is 1/2' Sweat, it has a 1/4" ball in it The flexible tubing is 1/2" ID food grade reinforced silicon tubing. I use a Knylar hose barb out of the pump valve and have 3" of 1/2" copper pipe coming out of each end of the sweat valve. With a little work you can force the copper pipe up the tubing and hose clamp it. This clamp is the most dangerous one in the system. I have a nice burn on my calf from when it gave way one day... I found that I needed both valves to get and keep a the correct flow rate. Close the pump one half way and then use the one on the end to regulate the final flow. Reducing the pump down from 6 gal/min to .2 gal/min takes some tweaking, but with the two valves it much easier. 4. Cleaning I only rinse with water. But I do recirc for the last ten min of the boil to sanitize the pump before knock-out. This I feel is necessary since lactobacillus is rampant in the mash liquor. 5. I have a nice drawing in JPG format if your interested. Phil Wilcox Poison Frog Homebrewer Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 10:04:22 -0400 From: Jim <jimala at apical.com> Subject: Re: Acidifying Sparge Water Art asks: "Have a question about acidifying sparge water so that a rising pH isn't as much a concern. Have seen it mentioned here and in several other places, but I've come across recommendations from 1/4 tsp of acid bled to 1 Tbsp of phosphoric acid. So, is there any sort of agreement on how much to add, and how much is too much? And, what detrimental effects can too acidic sparge water have?" Your goal in adding acid to your spraging water is to lower the pH to 5.7 or a little lower, to help avoid leaching tannins from the husks. How much you use depends on how alkaline your water supply is; you'll have to experiment. My water requires slightly more than 1/8 tsp of acid blend in 5 gallons to achieve this goal; yours may well be different. Also, I am using acid blend simply because I have it; I got some with a bunch of other wine making equipment at an auction several years ago. Lactic acid is probably a better choice if you are going to purchase something, it doesnt have that fruity taste like acid blend. If you use overly acidic sparge water, you will have overly acidic beer. :) Cheers, Jim Adwell Jim's Brewery Pages: http://home.ptdprolog.net/~jimala/brewery/ Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 08:19:45 -0500 From: Susan/Bill Freeman <potsus at bellsouth.net> Subject: pumps Most mag drive pumps are NOT self priming. They must be placed at the lowest point in the system and be turned in such a way that the input/output fittings are pointed up. Any throttling should be done on the output side with a valve. If you "lost prime" it is probably because there is a bubble trapped in the pump. These pumps also reduce the pressure and allow bubbles that otherwise would not form to come alive. This is particularly true when they are used in conjunction with a boil kettle for pumping hot wort. Recirculation should not be a problem. I have found that on "the perfesser" that my mash should be a) well mixed and b) the water/grain ratio is around 1.25-1.33 quarts/gallon. Your cleaning methods is the ones I use. Works for me.. Be careful how much suction you take on a grain bed. It is possible to compact the bed with these pumps. The initial grain/water mix can be helped along through the use of a savonius rotor type mixer on an electric drill. These are usually found in the paint/wall board section of your local mega home store. They are available in chrome plated, which IMHO works best. I usually start with 1 quart/pound for the first 30 minutes and then add additional water for recirc. Hope this helps. Bill Freeman aka Elder Rat KP Brewery - home of "the perfesser" Birmingham, AL Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 09:12:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Joel Plutchak <plutchak at ncsa.uiuc.edu> Subject: 6th Boneyard Brew-Off, Champaign IL Brewers, start your kettles! Judges, mark your calendars! The 6th Annual Boneyard Brew-Off will be held on June 10, organized by the Boneyard Union of Zymurgical Zealots, Champaign Illinois. Entries will be accepted May 26 through June 6 in all 1999 BJCP categories (beer, mead, and cider). We are also continuing our tradition of a No One Gets Out Alive High-gravity category, with a hedonic judging of any beer or mead with a starting gravity over 1.070. Details are available on the World Wide Web at <http://www.uiuc.edu/ro/BUZZ/contest6.html>. Entry forms will be available for download, and snail-mailed out to regional clubs and judges, in the next week or so. Judges can sign up now on the web. To receive a hard copy of the materials, send us your mailing address. Contacts: Competition Organizer: Brian Paszkiet <bpaszkie at uiuc.edu> Registrar: Brian Beyer <brianb at soltec.net> Judge Director: Joel Plutchak <plutchak at uiuc.edu> Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 10:50:43 -0500 (EST) From: Paul Shick <SHICK at JCVAXA.jcu.edu> Subject: Re: pump questions Hello all, Brent Dowell asks several questions about using his new pump. >1) This pump does not seem to be self priming. >2) Once I was using the pump, I seemed to 'lose' the >'prime' every now and then and would have to re-prime >the pump to continue. >3) I did try to use the pump to recirculate the liquid >in the mash, but was not successful. >4) Any tips on cleaning after use? Basically I just >recirculated some hot water through it, followed with >a light iodophor rinse, then a clear water rinse. Brent, I'm sure you'll find your pump a great asset to your system, once you get past some of these initial bugs that all pump users go through. Here are some suggestions that should help with the problems you describe. First, as you point out, these centrifigual pumps are not self priming. You need to have the impeller chamber and the tubing that flows into it completely filled with liquid, with as little gas as possible. This is especially true if you're planning to pump high temperature fluid, which is much more likely to "boil" and cause cavitation difficulties. For the pump that goes from the hot liquor tank to the mash tun, the solution that's worked for me is to fill the pump and tubing while I fill the HLT, and run the pump to recirculate through the HLT until all the bubbles are gone. Then I close the ball valve on the HLT and heat the mash water. This ensures a smooth transfer to the mash tun. For my system, it's easiest to pump half the mash water to the mash tun, prime/reciculate the mash tun pump as above, then close the MT ball valve, add the grain and the rest of the mash water as usual. Generally, you have to let the grain bed set up for a while before starting to recirculate, to avoiding setting the mash. You didn't mention what kind of mash tun you're using. If it's a cooler, then you have no reason to recirculate until the end of the mash (just for wort clarification.) If you're using a stainless steel tun, with access to a burner, you can use the pump as a "poor man's RIMS," getting nice, gentle temperature rises. In either case, you definitely need a valve on the pump exit to regulate the flow. If your flow rates are too high, you can compact almost any grain bed. Also, too thin a mash (more than about 1.6 qts per lb, for me,) can contribute to setting the mash. With a reasonably thick mash (1.2-1.4 qts/lb,) without too many "sticky" adjuncts, I generally have no problems recirculating at 1-2 gallons per minute. With lots of corn meal or wheat, the rate has to be slowed to about .5-1 gallon per minute, which is still high enough for the sort of temperature rises I look for. As far as cleaning, your regime sounds fine, UNLESS you're using the pump to move chilled wort post-boil (to the fermentors, for example.) If so, you might consider recirculating near-boiling water through the pump and tubing for 20 minutes of so, before using the pump. If all your use of the pump is pre-boil, you should be in good shape. Good luck with your newly-semi-automated brewery. Paul Shick Cleveland Hts, OH Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 10:12:50 -0500 From: "Dave Hinrichs" <dhinrichs at quannon.com> Subject: RE: screw-on filters Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 23:08:32 -0500 From: "Sean Richens" <srichens at sprint.ca> Subject: Brita and screw-on filters Sean asks I have no idea about the first part of the question, not being an owner of such a device. Can Glen or someone else answer? I'm personally curious what the manufacturers of the screw-on or countertop filters recommend for a flow rate. Sean Richens srichens.spamsucks at sprint.ca Most control the flow rate by restricting the passage thru a small hole. When I did the design for the Sears unit we shot for .5 gpm and nailed it just by the hole and passage sizes. Also the carbon filter will restrict flow as well. I still recommend a under sink or whole house unit as it is cheaper and easier to use. I also think the faucet and countertop units are more prone to contamination as they are not a sealed system. Dave Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 11:40:40 -0400 From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com> Subject: fishing Paul Niebergall wrote: >To whoever it was who compared fishing to homebrewing: >Do you really think that someone who spent his time >researching about fishing in a library could outfish >someone who has spent an equivalent amount of time >in a boat actually fishing? >I can see it now Steve Alexander and Alan Meeker in a >boat, equipped with them is the latest technology >that money can buy...[snip] >Up against them is an old guy in a row boat who has >never so much as read a fishing magazine (hell, he >cant even read)... [snip] Paul, Your humorous analogy implies that neither Alan or Steve have any experience in fishing which then also implies that they have little to no experience in homebrewing. We know that is not the case. Stop teasing the boys. While I understand the point you are trying to make over "Time on the water. Time in the brewery." and "Who is going to enjoy their time on the water more?", I also realize that Alan and Steve (plus many others, myself included) are looking to understand the why and how of homebrewing. The transormation from wort to beer is a series of complex biochemical reactions and pathways. Most homebrewers are content to know that if they do certain things in a prescribed order that their beer tastes better - end of story. Then there are those of us who must know the how and why and will not rest until it is explained or discovered. That is where they find their joy. So I'm sure that they thoroughly enjoy their time in their own brewery doing thier own things they way they like it. To each his own. It is said that true wisdom comes with both knowledge and understanding. As with anything, I believe that one must have a bit of book knowledge tempered with the understanding gained by practical experience to truly master his/her subject. I don't know why I get a bigger, faster, cleaner break using first wort hops. It would be nice to know and I would participate in discussions theorizing it, but even without a scientific explanation, I'm happy to call them "clearing hops" (a la Pivo) and be happy with my beer. As for the TRUE link between fishing and beer, I will be conducting research on this over the weekend in my boat as the cooler resides right next to the tacklebox ;-) Glen Pannicke Merck & Co. Computer Validation Quality Assurance email: glen_pannicke at merck.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 11:42:01 -0400 From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com> Subject: Brita and screw-on filters Brian asked: >>So what volume of carbon do your typical screw onto the faucet types of >>filters have, and what would be a suitable flow rate for them? And Sean replied: >I have no idea about the first part of the question, not being an owner of >such a device. Can Glen or someone else answer? I'm personally curious >what the manufacturers of the screw-on or countertop filters recommend for a >flow rate. Now I'm sticking my nose in: I have no idea about the volumes of carbon, but I can tell you that undersink faucet models have more carbon than the screw-on faucet models. The faucet models probably have more than the Brita. Just picking the big 3 that I'm familiar with, here's a few references to Omni, Pur, and Brita. I also picked these becuase you should be able to get 'em at Home Depot and this would provide a convenient excuse to wander the aisles aimlessly for an hour or two <insert manly-type grunting & cheering>. http://www.omnifilter.com/wholehouse/index.shtml Their whole house filters use cartidges with a 5 GPM rating that filter particulates from anywhere from 30 um down to 5 um (depending on cartridge). The chorine *reduction* (Class IV) is available in one type which is actually a carbon-coated filter. These are mostly good or sediment since you have to supply your shower, toilet, et. al. with his filter. They're good for 3 months or 15,000 gallons. I'd rather use these to filter my beer with. Not my water. http://www.omnifilter.com/undersink/index.shtml Chlorine *removal* is achieved with the undersink models. They flow at 1 GPM for all but one which is 0.75 GPM. Chlorine removal is dependent upon the filter cartridge selected (about 98 - 99.95%) and fitration can range from a rough 30 um to a tight 0.5 um. These are your best bet if you don't want to let your water sit out for a few days, boil it or use campden tablets (never knew about this one - good info!) Most of them are good for 6 months and 1,000 gallons. One is only good fro 4 months and 600 gallons (but you probably don't need that one anyway). These guys cost! http://www.waterpik.com/index.cfm Their best filter lasts up to 200 gallons or three months. It's rated at Class 1 for chlorine reduction (94%) and Standard 53 (93%) for reduction of lead. No info on flow rate, but they're probably the middle ground.Reduces up to 93% Lead, up to 99.95% http://www.brita.com/ Brita filters take approximately 3 to 5 minutes to filter 1 quart of water. The filters require replacement after 10 gallons (you can stretch this) and contain activated carbon which only *reduces* chlorine (Class IV???). It also contains an ion echange resin which removes/reduces lead,copper calcium and magnesium (depending upon initial quality of water). They say not to filter more than 4 quarts (or something like that) per day to maintain filter efficiency. Brita filters are less efficient and I'm sure the Omni undersink models give you the best bang for the $$. I'm patient to wait for my Brita and I don't look forward to screwing around under my sink. It's dark in there! Oh, I almost forgot my disclaimer: I do not work for Omni, Waterpik or Brita - but they are giving me very large sums of money to mention their products in this forum - yeah sure... Glen Pannicke Merck & Co. Computer Validation Quality Assurance email: glen_pannicke at merck.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 11:41:34 -0400 From: Rick <flp2m at virginia.edu> Subject: Thanks Dr.Cone Just in case no one has done it yet. This is really great to have so many detailed answers to or many yeast questions. Thanks Rick Pauly Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 09:02:54 -0700 From: "Michael Rose" <maltandhops at msn.com> Subject: Questions for Dr. Cone Dr. Cone wrote in response to a previous question, >The low levels of polysaccharides and manoproteins in wine can be detected >more readily because of the lighter structure of wine. Beer already has a >sizable amount of carbohydrates (extracts), however, who knows what >contributions these compounds can have on beer. >My company is in the process of building a factory to produce these >compounds for the wine industry, you can bet that we will now explore its >use in the brewing industry. 1. A clarification please. Is the new factory producing specialized yeast, or the actually manoprotein compound? 2. Do you know of any other compounds (protein related, not carb related) that can be added to beer or wine to enhance mouthfeel? (excluding malt, barley, wheat) Thank you again for your help! michael rose Crestline, CA maltandhops at msn.com Return to table of contents
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