---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Czech travels (Ray Kruse)
  Re: Questions about Decoction (Chris Campagna)
  AHA Board Election ("Donald D. Lake")
  no carbonation and air shipment ("S. SNYDER")
  More jabs (Eric Reimer)
  re: Water Numbers for Philadelphia? ("S. SNYDER")
  aeration ("Rockies Brewing")
  GMOs ("Alan Meeker")
  Last Call - 18th Annual Oregon Homebrew Festival ("Mark Kowalski")
  Re: AHA Board Election (Some Guy)
  Oz outback and beers and nothing has changed (Dave Burley)
  Beer Gas - Detroit Area (Art Tyszka)
  Big Brew Photos for Zymurgy ("Gary Glass")
  SUM: Bad Starters. ("Chris Strickland")
  Reverse RIMS...Yippee!...Part I (William Macher)
  Reverse RIMS...Yippee!...Part II (William Macher)
  Hops mix-up ("ChrisS")
  Top Crop (Crossno)
  Soldering, etc (Bob Sheck)


* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!

* 18th Annual Oregon Homebrew Festival - entry deadline May 15th
* More info at:  http://www.hotv.org/fest2000

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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 05:17:46 -0400
From: Ray Kruse <rkruse at bigfoot.com>
Subject: Czech travels

One thing that Ron apparently hasn't found yet is the truly eye opening
experience that I had while driving through the Czech Republic.

We left Prague about 9AM heading for Dresden, and at 10:00 were stopped
at a roadblock for a breathalyzer test.

The trooper spoke neither English, French nor German, but did smile when
he saw the American passports.  The unit had instructions in English
which worked out well as I've never taken one of these before.

Says something about problems in a country that does sobriety checks
before lunch.

Ray Kruse
Glen Burnie, PRMd
rkruse at bigfoot.com



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Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 07:37:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: Chris Campagna <campagna at umd5.umd.edu>
Subject: Re: Questions about Decoction


In a recent HBD the questions came up:
1) Step C says "pull off the thickest 30 to 40 percent of the mash".  What
does that mean?  Thirty to 40 percent of the total volume (grain +
liquid)?

What exactly should I do at this step and what is the procedure?

2) Step D. I assume an iodine test is done here, right?

3) Step E.  What is the significance of "over 10 minutes".   I would
assume
the temperature of 145F is the most important factor. If so, wouldn't it
be
better to just add the decoction and then adjust the temperature with cold
water or heat?  

1) The thickest part refers to getting as much grain as possible, and
leaving behind as much liquid as possible.  The enzymes for conversion
will survive if left behind in the liquid.

2) you can do an iodine test on the decocted portion here.

3)  the reason for 10+ minutes is that one benefit of decoction mashing is
that the husk is ruptured over time. allowing for easier access to the
starches for conversion.  Just be sure to watch the pot so that you don't
scorch the grains while doing this.

Hope this helps.

Chris




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Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 08:48:31 -0400
From: "Donald D. Lake" <dake at gdi.net>
Subject: AHA Board Election

The ballots for the AHA Board of Advisors Election are due May 15th.  I
haven't heard any discussion on this forum on the candidates, although
many of their names are familiar.  We get to choose four.  What's the
rap on these folks?  Any scandals or skeletons in closets that I should
know about.  Any of them been caught with young boys, a Miller Lite or
something similar?  Here's the slate of candidates:

Scott Abene
Pat Babcock
Louis Bonham
John Carlson, Jr
Stephen Mallery
David Miller
Randy Mosher
Lynne O'Conner
Martin Stokes

Don Lake
Winderemere Brewing Co
a division of Lake Water Brewery
a wholly-owned subsidiary of Canal Water Beverages, Inc.








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Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 10:54:01 -0400 
From: "S. SNYDER" <SSNYDER at LBGHQ.com>
Subject: no carbonation and air shipment

Greetings fellow brewers:

Before I begin, thanks to everyone who has sent replies regarding my last 2
posts.  Sorry I haven't replied to each individually (I will) but with the
virus and all, it has been difficult.  All of your comments are so
appreciated.  I kind of feel bad that I am in the beginning stages of
learning to brew well, so I have far more questions than answers.  This is
really a great discussion list.

Now to the questions:
#1 simple: Is there any problem with shipping bottled beer by air (either
within the US or overseas) for fear of bottle explosion or just for legality
sake?

#2 I just finished making a nut brown ale with a can of Munton's and 3 lbs
of DME, hops, and Wyeast liquid.  Primary fermenter for a week then
secondary for a couple to three weeks (I lost track, boooo). I had problems
with the rubber stopper staying put in the secondary.  After 3 weeks I
transferred the beer to my bottling bucket and added 3/4 cup of corn sugar
dissolved in some boiled water.  I bottled, and after a 6 days at 70F no
carbonation (no sediment at the bottom of each bottle either.  Am I keeping
it to cool for carbonation?  Did my yeast die due to stopper problems?  Have
I not waited long enough? I haven't had problems with carbonation in the
past, ever.  Do I need to wait longer, or should I try to add new yeast to
spark the carbonation process.  I guess in that case I would have to empty
all the bottles back into the bottling bucket to add the yeast.  Oh my.

Thanks for all the past and future help.

Scott Snyder
ssnyder at lbghq.com



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Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 11:01:16 -0400
From: Eric Reimer <eric at etymonic.com>
Subject: More jabs

Jethro quotes Brian and then writes:

From: "Brian Lundeen" <blundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: Just a little jab!
>> While putting together the speakers for MCAB I, I had been
>> trying to get Dr.
>> Chris White of WhiteLabs to fly in and speak at the
>> conference.
>
>I noticed that Chris White will be the keynote speaker at this year's 
Great
>Canadian Homebrew Conference. It doesn't look like Dr Cone will be
involved.
>I guess just the prospect of speaking at a more prestigious event than 
MCAB
>was enough to lure Dr White out this time. ;-)


	There is a more prestigious event than the MCAB??? Damn, wait till I get 
my
calendar out....
	But, seriously.....!!

	Dr. Cone was interested in your event, however, as he is to be climbing 
Mt.
Everest, with 6 swimsuit models, in an attempt to brew the highest batch,
and break the North American continental record, he was obviously going to
be unavailable for the GCHC.
	He does, in fact, bemoan the fact that Chris White is going to be at your
event, however... [Snip}

Back to me:

It's great to hear that Dr. Cone will be taking some time off for 
recreational activities, however Dr. Cone was at LAST year's GCHC (1999). 
 I had the great pleasure of listening to Dr. Cone speak at the 1999 GCHC 
and was very fortunate to have Dr. Cone sitting at the same table at lunch. 
 Not only does Dr. Cone know his yeast, but he is a very personal and nice 
all around guy!  I'm looking forward to listening to Dr. White this year! 
 Hey, maybe the GCHC really is better than MCAB! 8^)

Cheers,
Eric
Barking Dogs Brewing Co.
London, On








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Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 11:08:50 -0400 
From: "S. SNYDER" <SSNYDER at LBGHQ.com>
Subject: re: Water Numbers for Philadelphia?

Bill:

I am afraid you'll have to get more specific than "Philadelphia area".  The
city itself probably has dozens of surface water supplies and even more
ground-water supplies and they all get treated differently.  Do you mean
just the city or the suburbs?  I know Philadelphia Suburban Water Company
serves most of the suburbs for at least a 25-30 mile radius.  I know we have
worked for PSWC for decades and they have many water sources too.  If you
give me a certain area I could see if we have water quality data for that
town, city or whatever.  What kind of water chemistry are you looking for?
Give me some details and I'll see what I can do.

Scott Snyder
Senior Hydrogeologist
Leggette, Brashears & Graham, Inc.
126 Monroe Turnpike
Trumbull, CT 06611
(203) 452-3100
(203) 452-3111 fax
ssnyder at lbghq.com

"The eye seldom sees what the mind does not anticipate."



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Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 12:36:11 -0600
From: "Rockies Brewing" <RockiesBrewing at netzero.net>
Subject: aeration

I have access to an oxygen tank and an aeration stone.  How much aeration is
enough with this setup?  Is it possible to over-aerate your wort.

Brett

_____________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Click here for FREE Internet Access and Email
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html


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Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 09:06:54 -0400
From: "Alan Meeker" <ameeker at welchlink.welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: GMOs


 This seemed timely, given the recent discussions on GMOs here...

 > Subject: GURPS Ignorant Luddites, anyone?
 > From: bjm10 at cornell.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
 > Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.gurps
 >
 > Results from a survey published in Seed Trade News December 1999 (Ball
 > Publishing, Batavia, Illinois.). The survey source was Thomas J Hoban,
 > 1999.
 >
 > The question was "ordinary tomatoes do not contain genes while
genetically
 > modified ones do" The survey was done is several countries with the
 > following results:
 >
 >                      false           don't know         true
 > Austria            34                 22                  44
 > Canada           52                 33                  15
 > Finland            44                 27                  29
 > France             32                 39                  29
 > Germany          36                 20                  44
 > Ireland             20                 51                  29
 > Italy                 35                 44                  21
 > Netherlands     51                 27                  22
 > Spain               28                 46                  26
 > Sweden           46                 24                  30
 > UK                  40                 38                  22
 > USA                45                 45                  10
 >
 >
 > How do we evaluate this?
 >
 > I first generated a Daft Twonk Rating (DTR).  Whomever answered "true" to
 > this question is obviously a daft twonk.  Whomever answered "false" or
had
 > the honesty to not know and answer "don't know" is not a daft twonk.
 > Dividing the "true" percentage (the daft twonks) by the non daft twonks
 > gave us the DTR for each country.  Any country for which the DTR is
 > greater than 1 (daft twonks outnumber non twonks) is probably too far
gone
 > to try to save.  The daftest and twonkiest of all nations surveyed are
 > Austria and Germany, which came out with a whopping 0.786 DTR.  This
 > probably explains why the Greens do so well in their elections.  The
least
 > daft nation is the USA (0.111), although Canada is only slightly less
daft
 > (0.176).
 >
 > The Able to Keep Things on Even Keel (AKTEK) rating is an inverse of the
 > DTR.  It reflects how much influence those who have SOME idea of reality
 > might have on that country's affairs.  It is found by dividing the
 > proportion of "false" answers by the sum of "don't know" and "true"
 > answers.  While having an even keel is usually a good thing, excesses in
 > this field tend to lead to humorlessness and general banality.  When
AKTEK
 > rises above 1, check your sense of fashion and love of fun at the border.
 > The most even-keeled nation is Canada (1.083), with the Netherlands at a
 > close second (1.041).  The least even-keeled nation is Ireland (0.250),
 > followed by Spain (0.389), so bring your party hats when visiting those
 > lands.
 >
 > Finally, we have Get Out Of My Face, Already (GOOMFA), which represents
 > people who would rather just be left alone than deal with "Big Issues"
 > (TM).  This is derived by dividing the "don't know" figure by the sum of
 > "true" and "false".  Any country with a GOOMFA higher than 1 doesn't
 > actually consider itself to be on the same planet with the rest of us or
 > at least seriously wishes it weren't.  The most GOOMFA nation surveyed is
 > Ireland (1.041) followed by Spain (0.852).  The least GOOMFA nation (aka
 > the biggest fussbudget nation) is Germany (0.250), followed by Austria
 > (0.282).
 >
 >
 > So, what can we conclude from our little analysis:  Things look grim for
 > the world, given that the biggest fussbudgets are also the daftest
 > twonks.  If this scares you too much and you need stability, move to
 > Canada or the Netherlands.  However, if you just want to have a good time
 > and let the fussbudgets bother everybody else, Ireland and Spain are your
 > best bets.


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Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 09:39:41 -0700
From: "Mark Kowalski" <mhkowalski at home.com>
Subject: Last Call - 18th Annual Oregon Homebrew Festival

Heart of the Valley Homebrewers present the 18th Annual Oregon Homebrew
Festival at the:

Benton County Fairgrounds
110 SW 53rd Street
Corvallis, Oregon
Saturday, May 20, 2000 9:30 AM

Special Guest Speaker Fred Eckhardt

AHA Sanctioned Competition - Judging the 26 Recognized BJCP Beer, Mead and
Cider Styles

Preliminary judging and judge training session Friday, May 19, 2000 7-10 PM

The Heart of the Valley Homebrewers invite you to participate in the
Eighteenth Annual Oregon Homebrew Festival, the longest running event of its
kind in Oregon.

The focus of the event will be the judging of homebrewed beer. The
competition is sanctioned by the American Homebrewers Association (AHA) and
using Beer Judge Certification Program (BJCP) Recognized Style Guidelines.
In addition, the club will host a festival to promote awareness and
knowledge of various beer styles, provide opportunities to share information
about the homebrewing craft, and encourage interaction between homebrewers
in a social atmosphere. This year's activities along with the homebrew
competition will include publicly judged home-made soda competition,
homebrew label competition, rookie entry competition, several displays, a
raffle and the opportunity to meet and talk with some of the best and most
experienced homebrewers anywhere!

Winners will be announced at approximately 5:00 PM the day of the
competition. Ribbons will be awarded for first, second, and third place in
each category. The winner of Best of Show will receive a gift certificate or
other prize appropriate to the occasion. Judges reserve the right to not
award all ribbons in any category if entries are judged to not be of
sufficiently high quality.

Entry Deadline:  Monday, May 15, 2000

For any additional information, forms, etc. or to volunteer some time for
this competition see http://www.hotv.org or contact the competition
organizers:

FESTIVAL COORDINATOR
Mark Kowalski
Phone: (541) 715-8574 - (541) 752-2008
Email: festchair at hotv.org

JUDGE COORDINATOR
John Sterner
(541) 924-0272
Email: judge at hotv.org

REGISTRAR
Herky Gottfried
Phone: (541) 757-8009
Email: registrar at hotv.org







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Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 12:45:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: Some Guy <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Re: AHA Board Election

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager....

"Donald D. Lake" <dake at gdi.net> writes:

> What's the rap on these folks?  

> Pat Babcock - Is a computer hologram created in a fit of boredom
                by Karl Lutzen. Likes Stroh's. Spends too much time on  
                the PC and not enough with his wife and kids. Thinking 
                of getting out of home brewing. Tortures aquaintances 
                and small animals with boring minutia. Don't vote for 
                him.

- -- 
 -
See ya!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.com
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock
   "Just a cyber-shadow of his former brewing self..."



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Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 13:55:55 -0400
From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: Oz outback and beers and nothing has changed

Brewsters:

Ahhhh. Tooheys Old, V.B., XXXX,  these do bring back memories of the
Boulder Block Bar and the like in the mining towns of western Australia
outback. My favorite view of a Sheila ( is that P.C. , Phil?) was when the
barmaids wore tops made from one inch guage fishnetting. I never visited
those little 4'X6'shanties with a bed and room to get your pants off, 
behind the main street. But, in the interest of marketing, did drive by to
check out the type of advertisement the girls were using.

On one occasion, I was travelling with a fellow of short stature and we
went into one of these often green painted bars reminiscent of Crocodile
Dundee's Local and I think to which PhilY is referring to as unchanging . 
The urinals ( they were urinals, I hope) were much higher off the floor
than we position them in the US. When he complained of his inability to
reach the bowl easily, I told him that was the Australians' way of keeping
you on your toes. It also explained the wet floor.

I am sorry, PhilY,  but you will have to ask an Austronesian linguist or
one of your local Aboriginals, as I hesitate to print the definition of
Burrabadoo here.  

Keep on Brewin'


Dave Burley


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Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 14:59:25 -0400
From: Art Tyszka <atyszka at mail.cbf.com>
Subject: Beer Gas - Detroit Area 

So, I was all set to buy a N2 regulator and Guinness faucet for my draft
system until I realized no one was willing to set me up with a 10 or 20#
tank of 75/25 Nitrogen/CO2.  The only place on the east side that I could
find was N. American Coil and they said they only deal with commercial
accounts.

So does anyone in the Detroit area know of a Guinness certified Beer Gas
dealer?

- -- 
Art Tyszka
Loyal Shepherd Brewing Co.
http://www.blatant.com/beer



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Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 16:41:42 -0600
From: "Gary Glass" <gary at aob.org>
Subject: Big Brew Photos for Zymurgy

Calling All Big Brewers,

The AHA needs your photos!  The AHA would like to publish photos from last
weekend's National Homebrew Day celebrations in Zymurgy.  If you have photos
from your Big Brew 2000 event that you would like to see in Zymurgy, send
them to us.  Digital copies (at least 300dpi) can be emailed to
gary at aob.org.  Photos should be sent to:

Zymurgy
C/o Gary Glass
736 Pearl Street
PO Box 1679
Boulder, CO 80306-1679

Please include the pertinent info such as Number & Names of participants,
location, club name, number of gallons brewed, brewing systems used, etc.
If you want your photos back please include a self-addressed stamped
envelope.  We cannot guarantee that all photos sent in will be published.
Photos should be received by the AHA by the end of the week to make the
Zymurgy deadline.

Cheers!
Gary
- -------------------------
Gary Glass, Administrator
American Homebrewers Association
736 Pearl Street
PO Box 1679
Boulder, CO 80306-1679
U.S.A.
Voice: (303) 447-0816 x 121
Fax: (303) 447-2825
Email: gary at aob.org
Web: http://www.beertown.org



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Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 20:04:22 -0400
From: "Chris Strickland" <chris at new-horizon.net>
Subject: SUM: Bad Starters.

Thanks for all the posts.  As I suspected, I believe my starter wort was too
hot.  Here's a summary of the comments of both the Starter, and the
difference in 1056 and 1272 American Ale Yeast

Starter Comments:

I think that temperature was the root of your problem.  I cool mine
starter wort in an ice bath until the temp. drops to 75degrees F.  The
gravity of the starter wort is forgiving although I've noticed that the
experts recommend going lighter than you would expect.  Some recommend
using 1/4 cup of DME to 1 pint (approx 500ml) of water.

I don't know what 2 oz is equivalent to, but most people use 5-6 tablespoons
of dried malt extract (~1/3 cup) in 2 cups of water for a starter wort.
Yours sounds a little weak. Maybe that's why your starters aren't taking off
like gangbusters. Also, make sure not to add the yeast to hot, or even warm,
wort.

The only DME I have found which produces a healthy starter from any yeast
source (smack pack, White Labs, previous batches) is Munton & Fison.  I have
not tried Breiss, but Laaglander is bad.  Also, after the local brew shop
burnt down I went to a couple others and got 'American' and 'English' which
both produced poor quality starters.  With these extracts my starters showed
pressure in the air lock and only bubbles if you shok the container.

I would also watch your pitching temp and SG.  Shoot for no higher than 75F
and 1.050, IMHO.

Yeast Comments:

Both seem to have the same fermentation temperatures, but one
difference that I see is that the 1056 is a wee bit more
attenuative

No comparison between the two. The 1056 is a softer, smoother yeast,
only slightly less flocculant than the 1272. I've used 1272 three times
now, and each time found 1272 to impart a very unpleasant flavor, sort
of a winey/sherry-like flavor that I don't want in a beer.





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Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 20:20:13 -0400
From: William Macher <macher at telerama.lm.com>
Subject: Reverse RIMS...Yippee!...Part I

Reverse RIMS...Yippee!...Part I

Hi all,

First a question. What do I call that thing that I am using to 
draw the liquid off the top of my mash tun in the reverse 
mode? A False Top????

Perhaps I am in the minority, but from the start I have had 
problems getting a high enough recirculation flow rate out 
of my converted-keg RIMS. I generally mash around 20 lb. 
of grain in mash tun that was once a sanke keg. 

I am not the first to try the reverse RIMS idea, but since 
there are few reports on this type of system here is mine for 
your reading enjoyment. 

For those not familiar with the concept, reverse RIMS, during 
the mash takes liquid off the top of the mash tun and returns 
it to the bottom. Flow through the grain bed is from bottom to
top, counter to the normal rims flow of top to bottom.

My system is a single-tier, steam-injected RIMS. It is 
manually controlled, not automated. My problem was that 
if I opened the valve in the recirculation loop to get a high 
flow rate, the grain bed choked and I never was able to get 
adequate flow. Consequently, I could only input a limited 
amount of heat due to the low recirculation rate, and 
therefore it took forever to boost temperatures. My only 
option was to continuously stir the mash during 
temperature boosts, trying to prevent the filter bed from 
setting and restricting flow. This was something I did not 
want to do. I went with the RIMS idea in the first place TO 
AVOID stirring! 

The mash tun has a false bottom, with an H-shaped 
manifold under it, and with the in/out point out the center of 
the bottom of the keg. The false bottom is the standard 1/8-
inch holes on 1/4-inch centers [or 5/16?] or something 
close to that. The false bottom is held to the manifold under 
it with a stainless bolt so it absolutely will not move away 
from the bottom. During operation in the normal rims mode 
very little in the way of grains find there way under the 
false bottom and manifold blockage has never been the 
problem which limited my recirculation rate.

The modified system as it sits now in its RevRIMS form, 
adds a second outlet to the side of the mash tun and couple 
extra valves that allow change of direction of the 
recirculation flow. 

In the reverse mode, the flow is drawn off the top of the 
tun, via a salvaged stainless steel basket strainer [more on 
this later]. This is piped through a valve to the pump, and 
from the pump through my heating chamber. After exiting 
the heating chamber flow then goes down through a valve 
to the fitting in the keg bottom. The liquid comes into the 
keg bottom and is split four ways by the manifold and rises 
up through the false bottom, which keeps the grain/husks 
somewhat in suspension.

One thing that hindered me from getting this system up and 
running sooner was how to deal with the drawing of the mash 
liquid from the top of the mash tun to the pump. Whatever 
is used for this purpose must be moved out of the way so 
that the grains can be added to the mash tun and then put 
back in place afterwards. Additionally, the outlet from the 
tun should be below the liquid level of the mash so that the 
pump will be gravity primed. And the height with respect 
to the bottom of the tun must be adjustable to accommodate 
varying amounts of grains being mashed.

The solution was actually quite simple, although it took a 
while to come about. I brought the new connection through 
the keg wall a couple inches above the false bottom and on 
the inside terminated half-inch copper tubing with a copper 
union. This allows me to connect L-shaped half-inch 
copper pieces that turn upward at the center of the keg. 
Additional pieces can be made so the open end of the 
tubing is at any elevation desired. Whatever device is used 
as a "false top" can be slipped over the end of this tubing. 

But, HOW IS THIS DONE if the tubing end is submerged 
under the doughed-in grains? Since this was *THE* major 
stumbling block, I will describe a simple and workable 
solution which works well in my case.

The answer was a tubing-extension piece. This is simply 
another piece of copper tubing, with an insert soldered 
inside it so that the end that sticks out has the same outside 
diameter as the inside of the copper tubing. Very easy to 
make, but once you do you may start to regret using that 
low-end copper tubing to plumb your home! You will be 
surprised how THIN the wall of standard copper tubing for 
home use is.

Simply take a short piece of the same copper tubing, say a 
bit more than an inch long, and with tin snips cut it 
lengthwise. Then cut a bit off one side [of the cut you just 
made] so that the tubing can be squeezed with pliers to a 
smaller diameter. Remove enough so that the insert piece 
can be squeezed down small enough to slip inside the piece 
of tubing that will serve as the extension. Solder it in place 
and file off any solder or slightly out of round spots until 
this piece slides inside the open end of the L-shaped copper 
tubing in the mash tun. 

You now have an extension piece that is easily removable 
and can be used to guide the false top of your choice down 
and over the open end of the tubing that will feed the pump 
in the reverse mode.  The false top just has to have a hole 
punched into it that is slightly larger than the diameter of 
the tubing you are using.

[ continued in part II ]



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Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 20:28:06 -0400
From: William Macher <macher at telerama.lm.com>
Subject: Reverse RIMS...Yippee!...Part II

Reverse RIMS...Yippee!...Part II

Hi again :-)

Part II

When adding the grains to the mash tun cover the end of 
the extension tubing with something to keep the grain from 
going into the tube. I use a piece of the next larger size 
tubing with a cap soldered on it. After the grains are 
doughed in, when it is time to put your false top on, you 
remove this cover from the tubing and slide the hole in the 
false top over the tubing extension. The false top will slide 
down into the mash and over the end of the L-shaped return 
tube. You then suspend the false top however you like and 
pull out the tubing extension. You are now ready to turn on 
your pump and start RevRIMSing!

It is also easy to find the end of the submerged tubing that 
is under wort within the false top, and to slip the tubing 
extension back in place so that the false top can be removed 
from the mash tun at any time should you want to. I do this 
to get it out of the way so that the normal rims return 
manifold can be put in place for normal RIMS recirculation 
at the end.

What I am currently using for my false top is a salvaged 
industrial basket strainer, which is amazing in the fact that 
it is perforated with zillions of very small holes very close 
together. I would be surprised if these holes are larger than 
1/32 of an inch max. This thing is just under 5 inches in 
diameter and 12 inches long. It has a sold bottom in which I 
punched a hole and an open top. I inserted it into the mash 
about 6 inches. 

Before reporting how my first two RevRIMS mashes 
turned out, first let me report on the mini test I tried, with a 
pound of crushed grain and warm tap water.  At this 
temperature I was able to put my hand in and feel around. 
The grain bed was only an inch or so deep but I could 
definitely feel the top standing up like grass under water. I 
think it was husks that were being lifted by the upward 
flow of the water as it passed through the bed. Not 
unexpected at all, but satisfying none the less. I assume 
something similar was going on when mashing the full 10-
gallon-batch worth of grains but it was too hot to stick my 
hand in.

So how did the mash react during my trial runs? 

The first trial run was a Belgian style wheat beer, a 50/50 
mix of malted wheat and pilsner malt. I doughed in the 
grains and immediately started recirculating [previously I 
would have let it rest for 15 or more minutes]. I had no 
problem recirculating at full maximum right from the start, 
which for my system is about 3 GPM. I was able to raise 
temperature of the mash at about 3 degrees F. per minute. 
This was for a mix of 18 lb. of grain and 5.5 gallons of 
water, or thereabouts.

I was very satisfied with the performance of the reverse 
flow up through the false bottom. The fact that the grains 
remain in suspension, rather than compacting, removes the 
limit to flow that I was experiencing with the conventional 
flow direction.

I had to pay some attention to what was going on with my 
basket strainer false top at high recirculation rates. A sort of 
filter bed built up against the outside of the vertical strainer 
walls and restricted flow into the inside chamber from 
which the liquid flows to the pump. All it took was a quick 
twist back and forth once or twice to shake the husks(I think) off. 
But this had to be watched and done repeatedly during high 
flow rate periods. I plan to experiment with a shallower and 
wider false top made from some perforated stainless steel 
sheet in the future. Remember that I have limited false top 
area at the moment, only about 95 square inches.

My second brew with this system also required the same 
attention to keep the husks from restricting flow into the 
basked strainer. There was minimal wheat malt in the grist 
this time. It is possible that with the reverse rims that husks 
are the main component of the material that reaches the 
surface of the false top [I should have taken care to 
remember what I saw when I took a sample]. My suspicion 
is that husks without grains against the false top offer the 
same opportunity for flow restriction as grains without 
husks on a false bottom. 

My hope is that a larger diameter, shallower device, 
something that better approximates a false bottom might 
function better and perhaps require no attention at all. Then 
again, if floating husks are the root cause, then the same 
thing could occur. I will have to check further on my next 
batch and see what the make-up of the stuff that is 
collecting against the false top is.

All in all I am pretty happy with the performance of my 
RevRIMS. It is a substantial improvement over the original 
setup. I can get enough flow to really input the heat I need 
for 2 to 3 degree F per minute temperature boosts of the 
mash itself. And I am willing to live with the need to twist 
my false top back and forth periodically. Much less effort 
than stirring the entire mash. As a matter of fact, I will 
probably try motorizing the false top so that it turns slowly. 
Hopefully this will be enough to keep the husks from 
blocking the flow.

I will know more after I get more batches under my belt 
and report back if anything of interest comes up.

I hope this is of interest to someone out there who is contemplating
building a rims...

I just have to say it one more time as I head out the door:

Reverse RIMS...Yippee!

Bill Macher    Pittsburgh, PA    USA






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Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 09:41:05 +1000
From: "ChrisS" <snug at guamcell.net>
Subject: Hops mix-up

Hi Folks,

Last brew session I used half a bag each of Fuggles and Kent Goldings. I
cleverly packed the remaining hops in two small mason jars to be used next
time. Trouble is, I tossed the original bag labels. Now I have two generic
jars of hops and can no longer tell them apart. Can someone help me identify
which is which. Thanks a bunch!

Chris Senungetuk
Guam, USA
snug at guamcell.net



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Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 21:07:58 -0500
From: Crossno <Crossno at tnns.net>
Subject: Top Crop

No Phil get your mind off of billiards for a moment.  

< cut to sponsor >

When you "top crop" or harvest the top crop of the yeast do you slow
down the ferment?  It would seem that when this yeast falls back through
the beer you would have a good crop of yeast to finish the ferment
quickly.  Can you over harvest?

On my next batch I may harvest one fermentor and leave the other just to
compare.

And now back to your billiards match.

Glyn Crossno
Estill Springs,  TN
- -- 
Never miss a good chance to shut up.


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Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 23:37:34 -0400
From: Bob Sheck <bsheck at skantech.net>
Subject: Soldering, etc


>
>Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 10:51:18 -0400
>"permanent" side.   The other advantage to physical connectors is the
>strength of the connection.  Soldered connections are easy to pull apart and
>twisting the wires together before soldering only adds a bit more strength
>to them.


I don't know where YOU learned to solder, but I had a 2 week course on
high reliablity  soldering from the US Air Force that was NASA approved,
and a properly tinned, sweat-soldered junction has a HIGH strength factor.

BTW,  every joint we made was QC'd under a 50 power scope for any signs of
poor quality.  Yes, the majority of solderers think the bigger the glob, 
the better the job.

If you want anything soldered, send it over here!

I always solder any joints I want HIGH RELIABILITY from.



Bob Sheck

bsheck, me-sheck, abednigo! Greenville, North Carolina
email:bsheck at skantech.net or see us at:
http://www.skantech.net/bsheck/
(252)830-1833
- -------------
"Madness takes its toll -- Please have exact change!"
- -------------



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