---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com


Contents:
  Fosters ("Darren Robey")
  Fosters recipe wanted (LyndonZimmermann)
  20 tank (Scott Murman)
  Lowes / Digital Thermometer (AZ4RAYS)
  Re: Foster's recipe wanted ("Richard Pass")
  Fosters..? (Regan Pallandi)
  Fosters recipe (Brad McMahon)
  Deep Regrets ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  Czech hops ("Aaron Sepanski")
  Foster's Lager Recipee ("Aaron Sepanski")
  Bittering, Flavor, Aroma Hops ("Aaron Sepanski")
  virtual LOWE'S, Calcium and pH, Thermocouple (Dave Burley)
  re:calcium sulphate(gypsum) ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  Kalamazoo Oberon/Solson clone (Jeff Renner)
  Diacetyl in SNPA? ("Doug Moyer")
  Re: Low Fermentation Temps (Jeff Renner)
  Extraction % (William Frazier)
  New and Bastardized Ceaning Product ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  Re: Hops disease (B.R. Rolya)
  Phosphate (AJ)
  Flame Warriors ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  armless & legless cleaning products ("Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies")
  Saaz Substitutes ("Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies")
  digital thermometers (AKGOURMET)
  Yeast Washing (Charley Burns)
  Digital therm. for brewing (Ian Smith)
  To suck or not to suck, that is my question. (Ian Smith)
  false bottom design for RIMs ("steve lane")
  Mashing specialty grains ("Steve")
  Marketing (Ken Schwartz)


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* 6/22 through 6/24 http://hbd.org/miy2k

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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 14:35:44 +1000
From: "Darren Robey" <drobey at awb.com.au>
Subject: Fosters



Interesting to hear someone trying to recreate an Aussie standard beer. I don't
know why you'd bother but who am I to argue.  There was once a brew pub in
Bendigo who's claim to fame was that they had a home brew that apparently tasted
just like VB, but they didn't do to well as they couldn't compete on price
anyhow.

Anyway, when doing to tour of the CUB brewery where its made in Australia, there
were a few interesting things that might point you in the right direction. I
don't know how much real info the tour guide gave away, but anyhow.

Mash times were said to be around 30 minutes. It as little time as needed for
conversion so they can pump it through. Boils were also short.  No kettle hops
used. All additions are after fermentation in the form of iso hops. Ferm at
larger temps for 4 days then drop to just above 0 for two weeks then water down,
add hops and bottle. (all fermentation at very high gravity, again to maximise
throughput.
I have no idea of the grist used.  Current Aussie beers have no hop flavour or
aroma, just (a little) bitterness. I suspect this is actually one of the main
things some normal Aussies have against homebrew, They're just not used to the
flavour of hops.

Hope this may be of some use and I'll be happy to be corrected on anything said,
as I only got this from a tour guide.

Darren




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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 14:42:44 +0930
From: LyndonZimmermann <lyndonz at senet.com.au>
Subject: Fosters recipe wanted

An observation from Downunder:  Fosters is one of the main reasons we
homebrew! Why would you want to make that stuff? 

I've heard it said from within the industry that few of the major brew
companies here in Oz bother with real hops, preferring to use a concentrate,
the advantage being reals hops get lightstruck (I think the Yanks call it
skunky but few of us have ever seen or smelt a skunk, aside from cartoon
characters) and current practice is to use clear stubbies (375 ml bottles)
for the watery lagers.

Regards,

Lyndon Zimmermann
Adelaide, Australia

Lyndon Zimmermann and Associates (Business number 0442221W)
Sustainable Energy Consultants
24 Waverley St, Mitcham, South Australia, 5062
tel +61-8-8272 9262 mobile 0414 91 4577 fax +61-8-8172 1494
email lyndonz at senet.com.au URL http://users.senet.com.au/~lyndonz

Coming to the ISES 2001 Solar World Congress?  
Find out more at http://www.unisa.edu.au/ises2001congress



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Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 22:29:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Scott Murman <smurman at best.com>
Subject: 20 tank


haven't seen this posted yet - the 20 Tank brewery in S.F. CA will be
closing its doors this Fri.  They can't afford their new lease in our
wonderful Bay Area real estate market.  I think they have a web page -
try www.20tank.com - which will certainly have more info.

 -SM-



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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 01:36:16 EDT
From: AZ4RAYS at aol.com
Subject: Lowes / Digital Thermometer


  " So, I went to www.LOWES.com and they
never heard of a thermometer,or digital,
or even a garden."   Posted May,31 2000.

    To Joe Kish, Better check your typing Friend. My last visit to 
www.lowes.com turned up the word 'garden' several times right on the home 
page. when I typed in the word 'garden', I almost got whiplash. There were 
over 180 responses. for the word 'digital', 5 responses, likewise 
'thermometer', 4 responses.
   I haven't been to one since we heard about the digital thermometer, so I 
can't confirm or deny its' existence. I think a phone call to the nearest 
Lowes might prove fruitful.


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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 15:52:36 +1000
From: "Richard Pass" <richard.pass at anu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Foster's recipe wanted

Bill.X.Wible at QuestDiagnostics.com wrote:

>Does anybody have a lager recipe that is similar to Foster's?

>A friend of mine has asked me to make this.  I'm thinking standard
>North American lager grain bill, i.e. mostly lager malt, with maybe a
>pound of cara-pils.  Some recipes I've seen for Foster's include
>cane or turbinado sugar, or rice solids.

>What should the hops be?

Bill, sorry to disillusion you but don't you mean "hop"? ;)

And you won't be able to get it because Fosters breweries each have one and
never let it out of the brewery gate.  Rumour has it they keep it in a glass
case and wave it over nearly every brew (but don't let it ever get too
close).

>Does anybody know whether they really
>use Pride of Ringwood hops?

Over 99% of the Oz domestic hop crop is PoR.

Its very difficult to do a pale malt/white sugar brew using PoR and not have
it tasting like Fosters unless you overdo the PoR.


>If so, are they used for both bittering
>and flavor, or just bittering?

Flavour, what flavour?

>And what about yeast?  Is the Wyeast 2272 North American acceptable,
>or is there a better yeast for this beer?  Possible the lager blend?>>

Seriously, CUB reputedly use a Carlsberg derivative.  People I know have
obtained samples and say you get very Fosters-ish results using it, no
matter what other ingredients you use.  Come to think of it I vaguely
remember one of our club recently saying he had access to a sample and was
going to bring some to a meeting.  If that happens I'll let you know.

>Thanks in advance for your input

>Bill

No worries, mate.

Cheers,
Pass-the-bottle
Canberra Brewers website is at www.webone.com.au/~richpass



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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 16:05:08 +1000
From: Regan Pallandi <regan at esb.net.au>
Subject: Fosters..?

Bill asks for a recipe for Fosters...


>A friend of mine has asked me to make this.  I'm thinking standard
>North American lager grain bill, i.e. mostly lager malt, with maybe a
>pound of cara-pils.  Some recipes I've seen for Foster's include
>cane or turbinado sugar, or rice solids.

while I resist the temptation to ask "why", here is what is used for all
CUB's mainstream (or is that midstream...?) beers.
60% 2-row lager malt, 40% cane sugar make up the fermentables.

>What should the hops be?  Does anybody know whether they really
>use Pride of Ringwood hops?   If so, are they used for both bittering
>and flavor, or just bittering?

as far as I am aware, the beancounters decreed the use of real hops to be
too inefficient, and in their place is used iso-hop, to about 18 IBU. There
is no discernable flavour or aroma in Fosters.

>And what about yeast?  Is the Wyeast 2272 North American acceptable,
>or is there a better yeast for this beer?  Possible the lager blend?

I think the yeast is of Danish origin. Ferment at 14 deg, "lager" for 2
days, filter, and out the brewery door it goes.

Good luck, and perhaps you could do your friend a REAL favour, and
introduce them to proper beer....

cheers, Regan


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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 20:29:49 +0930
From: Brad McMahon <brad at sa.apana.org.au>
Subject: Fosters recipe

> From: Bill.X.Wible at QuestDiagnostics.com
> Subject: Foster's recipe wanted
 
> Does anybody have a lager recipe that is similar to Foster's?

Which Fosters? The one you get in Australia, or the one brewed in the US
to American tastes, or the one brewed in the UK or the one brewed in
China to 
their tastes?

You see, Fosters is brewed under contract all over the place.
The recipe is changed to suit the market. I haven't
tasted the US version of Fosters. I don't drink it here and I never
drank it when I lived in the US.

> A friend of mine has asked me to make this.  I'm thinking standard
> North American lager grain bill, i.e. mostly lager malt, with maybe a
> pound of cara-pils.  Some recipes I've seen for Foster's include
> cane or turbinado sugar, or rice solids.

That would be a good start. Try about 25% cane sugar to get that
authentic
macrolager taste.

> What should the hops be?  Does anybody know whether they really
> use Pride of Ringwood hops? 

As per comment above. PoR for Asutralia, Cluster or similar for the US
version.
Doesn't matter - it's a macro lager, it wouldn't be more that 15IBU's at
a guess.

>  If so, are they used for both bittering
> and flavor, or just bittering?

Flavor hops? Ah, no. If you put in flavour hops you might get a decent
taste 
out of it and that would never do.

> And what about yeast?  Is the Wyeast 2272 North American acceptable,
> or is there a better yeast for this beer?  Possible the lager blend?

2272 would be a good choice.

Good luck!

Brad McMahon
Aldgate, Sth.Aust. A long way from Burra(ba)doo.


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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 21:07:24 +1000
From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au>
Subject: Deep Regrets

To this day it remains a sad memory for me that Jeff Renner not only blessed
our shores but actually had his feet planted on the concrete at Burradoo
train station. But failed to advise me in advance that he was coming!!!
Yes I was on the other side of the continent, and unaware of his presence.
Unaware until I returned home and Jill informed me "one of your weirdo beer
mates has left a very odd message on the answering machine"
Alas, Jeff and Fred Garvin had headed home in disgust!
I'll make it up to you Jeff, and Fred, I promise.
What about one free nights dinner in the Burradoo Hilton courtyard? Complete
with complimentary raincoat and umbrella.
Please do come again.

What I really did want to talk about tonight was the use of Calcium Sulphate
and Lactic Acid. Both of which I have recently experimented with.
I also wanted to complain about the use of the word "waitperson", which has
apparently taken over from
"waiter" and "waitress".
This might not seem beer related but it really is.

Unfortunately, unlike everyone else, Pat does not allow me 8K's worth to get
my story out (I'm given a max of forty lines after which he simply cuts the
bottom off my posts - I'm on special probation even though it's more than a
year since I swung a cat, or even looked sideways at a budgerigar).
C'mon Pat, loosen up a bit.

Guess I'm out of lines. Maybe next time.

Cheers
Phil
Chief In Charge - Hu-person Race.



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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 6:41:44 -0700
From: "Aaron Sepanski" <madaarjul at earthlink.net>
Subject: Czech hops

Styrian Golding can go in Czech beer.  Not pilsner though.  The classic
pilsner is all saaz.  In the Republic basically they make three beers,
Light (color)Pilsner, Dark (color) Pilsner, and a Strange Porter that is
actually a Lager.  The two dark beers will used stryian goldings.



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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 6:47:56 -0700
From: "Aaron Sepanski" <madaarjul at earthlink.net>
Subject: Foster's Lager Recipee

40% Corn (Flaked Maize)
20% Cane Sugar
40% 2-Row
Maybe a 6-8 oz. Cara-Pils for color/head retention

Any noble hop...

1 oz. bittering
1 oz ten minutes prior to knockout.

It'll never taste identical.



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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 7:5:16 -0700
From: "Aaron Sepanski" <madaarjul at earthlink.net>
Subject: Bittering, Flavor, Aroma Hops

I'm not sure what started the classification of hops based on their three
uses.

Is it not true that all hops have AA?  Then they are all bittering.  Is it
not true that all hops contain other essential oils (humulone, cohumulone,
etc?  Then all are flavor and bittering.

I'll be the first to concede that a classification based on aroma is
appropriate, so hops smell remarkably better than others. But it is the
trend toward what a bittering hops is.

Many breweries will use the higher alpha varieties for bitterness, because
its cheaper.  That i no way makes the practice the standard.  Higher alpha
hops tend to have a very clinging bitterness because of their AA to
cohumulone ratio (I think, I can't remember the exact ration since I don't
use it a lot, maybe there are some hop guys that can help me out).  Of
course this is a general rule, there are exceptions, namely target hops.

The best all around hops are noble hops.  The reason is, because of their
make-up, they contain a desirable level of all the essential oils.  Than
can be used for any purpose.

What makes them good for bittering though?  The reason is that you have to
use more.  Alpha acid is just one of twelve(or eleven) identified oils in a
hop.  Logically, the more hop you add, the more of the oils you get in the
beer.

To make an anology...  Cascade hops are bitter and taste like grapefruit. 
Hallatauer Mittlefreuh are a very spicy floral, sweet, etc...  So with
Cascades, you get a tree, with Halt MF, you get an orchard.

Not to say I don't like Cascades, I love them.  But I guess that I'm not
ready to go back on 1000 years of brewing tradition in Germany.  They use
noble hops, because that is what they grow.  The beer tastes marvelous. 
England prodominately using noble hops, golding, stryian golding, fuggle,
and now halt.

It's not a coincidence.



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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 08:46:15 -0400
From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com>
Subject: virtual LOWE'S, Calcium and pH, Thermocouple

Brewsters:

J. Kish went to www.LOWES.com and couldn't find a thermocouple or even a
garden section.

Joe, leave the virtual LOWE'S behind and  join the real world. LOWE'S is a
bricks and mortar place from the old economy and you have to drive or walk
there. If you can find a Home Depot or a Target, likely there will be a
LOWE'S close by in a non-virtual three dimensional building.

While you are there, smell the flowers!
- ----------------------------------
Aaron Sepanski says that calcium sulfate releases calcium and carbonate
precipitates with it to lower the pH.

CaSO4 is less soluble than CaCO3 so this won't work and there are no
protons on the CaSO4 molecule, BUT in a mash, the protonated ( e.g. HPO3
and such)  phosphate ions from various sources in the malt do react with
calcium ions ( from calcium sulfate and the like dissolved in the brewing
liquor) to form the very insoluble calcium tri-phosphate and release the
protons on the partially protonated phosphate ions. These protons  form
hydronuim ions (H3O+) on reaction with water  and lower the pH of the mash.
- ---------------------------------
Pete Calinski has had trouble with dipping the thermocouple braid into the
wort and having it cause false readings since the top of the thermocouple
body is not sealed.
 
An idea which I have never tried but should work is to get a long piece of
flexible heat shrinkable spaghetti tubing from the electronics parts store
and cover the entire length of the flexible braid of the thermocouple such
that the tubing prevents the braid ( and thus the thermocouple)  from
getting wet. Heat it with a hair dryer to shrink it on the thermocople body
and the braid. Maybe even put a little curable silicone adhesive around the
seal between the body of the thermocouple body and the spaghetti for
security. I think there is even some unpigmented heat shrinkable PTFE (
Teflon) tubing available.
- ---------------------------------
Keep on Brewin'


Dave Burley


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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 08:54:19 -0400
From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com>
Subject: re:calcium sulphate(gypsum)

Aaron says, >>Releasing Divalent calcium in solution should lower mash pH. 
The sulfate drops off (being water soluble), and the calcium reacts with
free
carbonate and precipitates out.  With less carbonate, there is more free
hydronium, therefore a lower pH.<<
 
I guess you were reponding to my micro-mash experiment. The experiment
was done with distilled water, no carbonates to precipitate. In a mash the
gypsum reacts malt phosphates to release hydronium and acidify the mash.

N. P. Lansing


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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 08:58:18 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Kalamazoo Oberon/Solson clone

Brewers

Here's a post I made in 1997 that's still valid.  My son, who I brewed this
for, is now finishing jet training for the navy and lands on carriers for
the first time next week, just in time for his 25th birthday.  I guess I
won't be brewing any for his 25th birthday.

Since I first posted this a number of other brewers have brewed it with
great success.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 10:09:11 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: American Wheat Ale Recipe

Brewers

HBD traffic is down a bit, so I thought I'd send this along, even though
it's a bit long.  I wrote it for the Ann Arbor Brewers' Guild newsletter.
Kalamazoo Brewing Company is a great regional microbrewery, about ten years
old.  Larry Bell's beers are often strong, idiosyncratic, and sometimes
funky.  As he has expanded (around 20,000 bbls this year, I think), they
have become more consistent.  Oberon is a great summer wheat, especially
when the diacetyl is under control.

Summer Wheat Ale Recipe

My son Matt's regular summer beer is Kalamazoo Oberon, formerly Solson, so
he asked me to brew him a keg for his 22nd birthday.  I did and it turned
out great.

I knew that Oberon is a cloudy golden, has a gravity about 1.054, low but
perceptible hops bitterness with a bit of spiciness I guessed was from the
hops, is somewhat sweet, full bodied and malty, but with a balancing lemony
quality (from the wheat?).  Sometimes it is heavy on diacetyl, which I find
tiresome, but the bottle I taste analyzed for this project had very little.

I considered reverse engineering it, but figured, what the heck, I'd call
the brewery and see what guidance they could give.  Well, a friendly brewer
confirmed the OG, said they used just over 50% wheat malt, and that they
used "just a little" Belgian crystal and Munich for color and maltiness.
He guessed maybe a pound each for 5 gallons.  I felt that was too much
crystal, so I used the equivalent of 1/2 pound crystal and 2/3 pound
Munich.  A full pound of Munich would have been fine, but I think the
crystal is about right.  He also said they used Hallertauer Hersbrucker for
bittering and Czech Saaz for finishing.  I reduced the gravity to 1.048 for
both easier drinkability and less alcohol.  It finished at 1.016, about
what I wanted, for 4.2% alcohol by volume.  If I hadn't diluted the wort by
sparging the hops, it would have been original strength.

I brewed this on a Monday and was drinking it on the following Sunday,
although it took a few more days for carbonation.  The cloudiness and
yeastiness are part of the style.  I hope you'll try this for a quick
summer beer.  I'll rack 5 gallons into a 1/6 barrel Sankey for Matt and
keep the rest.

Solstice Summer Wheat Ale

For *7.75* gallons Oberon clone in the 1/4 bbl. keg (really full)  at  1.048:

15 gal. well water boiled w/ 2 tsp. (10 g) CaCl2 and decanted. (City water plus
1/2 tsp. gypsum per 5 gallons water will get the Ca++ level where you want
it without too much sulfate.  CaCl2 would be better if you can get it.
Sulfate dryness is out of place here.)

*	7-1/4 lb. Durst wheat malt
*	5-1/2 lbs. Briess 6-row
*	3/4 lbs. DWC Caravienne (22L)
*	1 lb. Durst Munich

Double pass roller milled barley and wheat malt separately, then mixed dry.
Note for extract brewers:  You could substitute a good quality wheat/barley
malt extract (~25% more by weight) for the first two malts and do a
"mini-mash" of the caravienne and Munich.

*	Mashed in 12 qts. water to 140F (skipped usual 100F rest and/or
122F protein rest) for 1/2 hr rest
*	Boosted w/ 5 qts boiling water and burner to 158F, rested 1/2 hr
*	Boosted to mashout of 176F
*	Collected 9 gallons in 1 hr.

*	0.7 oz. Czech Saaz  at  3.5% first wort hopped (in the boiler at
beginning of lautering, steeps at 170F for the hour during lautering (~5
IBU contribution when boiled 1 hour)
*	0.5 oz. Hallertauer Hersbrucker  at  2.6% (late FWH after 6 gallons
collected, 25 minutes, do this at the beginning)(2.7 IBU)
*	1.5 oz. Hall. Hersb. boiled 60 min. 8.1 IBU
*	0.7 oz. Saaz. boiled 15 min. 2.5 IBU
*	0.5 oz. Saaz at strike, steeped 7 minutes during settling before
immersion cooling.

Yielded about 7-1/4 gallons wort  at  1.054 into open fermenter, sparged hops
with about 3/4 gal. cooled water for 8 gallons wort  at  1.048 into fermenter.

Pitched sediment from 3-1/2 liter starter Kalamazoo yeast from Yeast
Culture Kit Co., or you could culture the yeast from a bottle of Oberon.

Fermented at 65-70F ambient, full kraeusen at 18 hours, skimmed crud 3 or
4 times on day two and three, top cropped yeast on day four and five,
kegged on day six, still slight foam production indicating some continuing
fermentation.  Chilled and force carbonated.  Tastes great.


 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 08:30:33 -0400
From: "Doug Moyer" <shyzaboy at yahoo.com>
Subject: Diacetyl in SNPA?

Scientists and conjecturers,
    First, I have never once tasted anything remotely like butter or
butterscotch in beer. But, I am pretty sure I can identify diacetyl. I've
trained myself on Redhook ESB. I personally find diacetyl (or what I believe
to be diacetyl) to be repulsive at any level.
    Last night I was drinking a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale, and perceived
diacetyl. I don't recall anyone mentioning diacetyl as a flavor component of
SNPA. I started thinking about my past experience with SNPA. I have found it
to be inconsistently enjoyable. Sometimes I love it and other times I can
barely choke it down. Over here on the right coast, I would expect that SNPA
doesn't always get handled correctly, and isn't always terribly fresh. Could
poor handling contribute to increased levels of diacetyl? I know that there
is some active yeast in the bottle. Maybe I'm perceiving autolysis instead?
Any thoughts?


Brew on!
Doug Moyer
Salem, VA

Star City Brewers Guild: http://hbd.org/starcity

"There is a very fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness.'"
     ~ Dave Barry


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com



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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 10:09:46 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Low Fermentation Temps

Ant Hayes <Ant.Hayes at FifthQuadrant.co.za>wrote:
>
>I am fermenting an ale at ambient temperatures.<snip>
>the fermenting wort temperature does
>not go below 12C, and does not fluctuate too much.
>
>Question: For the last two days, in the morning, a sulphur odour emanates
>from the air lock, but at night everything smells normal. Is sulphur odour a
>sign of fermenting at too low a temperature?

I don't know, but sulfur is a pretty normal component of lager
fermentations, which take place at cool temps.  I always thought it was
typical of lager yeasts, but maybe it's the temperature.  One thing for
sure, it has never caused a problem with the finished beer.  I certainly
wouldn't worry.

With that temperature, you ought to brew a lager!  It's a little on the
high side of optimal, but nno higher than many commercial breweries use.

Jeff

 -=-=-=-=-
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, c/o nerenner at umich.edu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943. 




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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 14:31:30 +0000
From: William Frazier <billfrazier at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Extraction %

Ed Olsen writes "just brewed a 5 gallon batch of Russian Imperial Stout with
about 13.5# grain.  Ended up with an OG of 1.082....wort wheel indicates an
extraction of about 82%".

Ed - using some formulas that measure the actual amount of extract removed
from the grains and assuming you ended up with 5.0 gallons after the boil I
calculate your efficiency at 65.4% which is about what I get from my
all-grain brewing set-up.  Some may get a higher extraction but this seems
reasonable.

This method of calculating extraction efficiency measures actual extract
instead of comparing your results with a theoretical amount of extract.
Some definitions and the formulas are given below.  I've got mine set up in
a spreadsheet for easy and quick calculation.  There are other, more
accurate formulas for calculating SG from P but I've always used the one
shown.  I use narrow range hydrometers at the temperatures shown to measure
P.  I measure the volume of boiled wort after I transfer to a calibrated
settling tank once the wort has cooled.  The hop dregs (these are discarded)
are measured and the two volumes are combined for an accurate starting
volume value.

Specific Gravity [SG] - The ratio of the mass of a body [ie. wort]
to the mass of an equal volume of water at a specified
temperature [ie. 60F].							

Plato or Brix [P] - The percent extract by weight at a specified
temperature [ie. 60F]					

One gallon of water at 60F = 8.32823 pounds		

Step #1:	Calculate SG from P	
		SG = 259 / (259 - P)
Step #2:	Calculate the weight of 1 gallon wort using SG	
		SG [use decimal] x 8.32823 = Wort WT [weight of
                1 gallon wort in lbs  at  60F]
Step #3:	Calculate the pounds of extract in 1 gallon	
		(Wort WT x P) / 100 = Ext WT [pounds extract
                in 1 gallon  at  60F]
Step #4:	Calculate the pounds of extract in all of the wort	
		Ext WT x Gallons Wort = Total Extract
Step #5:	Calculate the percent extraction based on total
                weight of grain in the recipe	
		(Total Extract / Pounds Grain) x 100 = % Extraction

        Bill Frazier
        Olathe, Kansas










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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 11:29:32 -0400
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com>
Subject: New and Bastardized Ceaning Product

In HBD#3339 Charley complained of the new and improved cleaning products
available on the market:

> Why can't they just leave well enough alone? 

$$.  It's all about marketing. If it's new and improved, then you need it.

>Seems the new stuff has an "additive" to
>make it "thicker" so it won't splash and splatter when you pour it. 

Saw the same thing and walked right by it.  I use the supermarket generics.
They usually have the advantage of being cheaper,  work as effectively as
the name brands and rarely have any additives to make them "new and
improved" (fragrance, dyes, etc...).  Did you ever wonder why the dye and
scent free detergents cost more $$?  It has less in it?!?  But they figure
you'll pay more for something which is touted as being ecologically sound or
"hypoallergenic".  To quote Joe Pesci from Lethal Weapon 4: "They %^#$ ya!
They %^#$ ya!  They %^#$ ya!"  (I'm gonna write a book:  The Tao of Pesci
;-)

>This is just after visiting my local hardware store who no longer carries
>TSP. They have something called TSP, but again, its new and improved and
>contains NO PHOSPHATES! How can you call something TSP and not have
>phosphates in it. Marketing... It too foams up like there's soap in it.

They improved the phosphate right out of trisodium phosphate!  Amazing,
these guys!!!!  

>What are you guys using for cleansing things these days that doesn't cost
an
>arm and a leg?

I use an overnight soak in a combination of TSP and washing soda with hot
water.  I have no clue if their combined use has any effect over their
seperate use.  But it does seem to work well enough for general cleaning.
Since you can't get real TSP, then try plain washing soda.  It's been used
for years.  In a pinch I have used automatic dish washer detergent.  Try
finding one without rinse aids or the wonderful "sheeting action" like
Cascade has.  I'm sure it would be stripped out during sanitizing, but who
wants it in there anyway.  Again, go to the generics.  Name brands hardly
ever list their ingredients and almost always add perfumes and other crap.
Does any one have any credible info on dishwasher detergents?  Mr. Palmer?
Mr. Liddil?

On occasion I add a sequestering agent step to my washing regimen to remove
inorganic films & beerstone.  It's not critical if you already use iodophor
for sterilizing since it has a phosphoric acid base, which helps.  Sulfuric,
nitric, hydrochloric and phosphoric acids will all work well and at least
one type should be readily available to you someplace.  Phosphoric acid is
the best as it's the least harmful to you, your beer and your equipment.  I
usually throw a half ounce of muriatic acid [hydrochloric] into my [glass
only] fermenters half filled with cold water and then top it up and let it
sit for an hour.  Give it a few cold water rinses and it's clean.  Gotta say
it: SAFETY!



Carpe cerevisiae!

Glen Pannicke
http://www.pannicke.net
"He was a wise man who invented beer" - Plato







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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 12:34:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: br at interport.net (B.R. Rolya)
Subject: Re: Hops disease

Greg has this to say about his hops:

>Unfortunately, my Northern Brewer hops bine appeared to have had the same
>problem last year, and this year is beginning to exhibit the same symptoms.
> If you cannot access the link, I'll try to describe the condition.  The
>leaves develop dried edges, and some have dried patches elsewhere on the
>leaf, along with a blistered appearance.  Some of the dried patches have
>holes in the middle.  Many leaves start to curl and shrivel, and last year
>many started yellowing, although that may have been due to drought.

I'm unable to access the internet today, so I can't look at the pictures,
but one possible cause of your problem is spider mites.  They attack my
hops every year and I just put in my order for green lacewings today (also
to combat the aphids that hit the lettuce this weekend).  They start at
ground level (since that's where they overwinter) and the edges of the
leaves turn dry much as you described.  Spider mites are *extremely* tiny
and barely visible; stare for a long time at the underside of a leaf and
you think you see something greenish, yellowish or brownish move, it's a
mite.  Sometimes they leave very fine webs on the leaves or vines, but I
rarely notice them on my hops.

I've heard that one of the easiest ways to control them is to spray both
tops and bottoms of leaves with a hard jet of water from a hose.  Since
they're so tiny, they wash right off.  But since I live in New York, I
don't own a hose.  I've tried using watering cans and spray bottles with
nozzles which work to some extent, but I can't do it when the neighbors are
home since they don't appreciate a flood of water pouring down on them if
they happen to step outside.  And being one of those wacky environmental
types, pesticides are not an option for me.  However, I find that early
treatment with water (I study my leaves every day for the first sign of
mites) reinforced by a troop of green lacewings when things get out of hand
tends to limit the damage to the lower leaves with only the occasional
damage to a flower or 2 depending on how neligent I am.

A word of warning:  after you exam the leaves, be sure to immediately wash
your hands and arms to avoid spreading the mites to other plants.

Hope this helps!


 - BR
New York
Malted Barley Appreciation Society
http://hbd.org/mbas/





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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 13:14:06 -0400
From: AJ <ajdel at mindspring.com>
Subject: Phosphate

RE Aaron Sepanski's comments on calcium lowering pH. These are
essentially on except that it is phosphate (hydroxyapatite)
precipitation which is responsible for the pH drop. About 1% of the
weight of malt is phosphate. For in depth discussions of the mechanisms
involved search  last year's  archives under "phosphate".



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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 14:16:52 -0400
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <spencer at umich.edu>
Subject: Flame Warriors

This URL http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame1.html has a humorous
compendium of "flame warriors" with sketches of each.  I think I
recognize some HBD contributors.  :-) :-) :-)

Oops -- no beer content.  How about this -- I started brewing my
beer(s) that I will be serving in the Beers Without Borders (club
night) and hospitality suite at the AHA convention (JUST 3 WEEKS TO
GO!)

=Spencer




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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 12:28:44 -0600
From: "Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies" <orders at paddockwood.com>
Subject: armless & legless cleaning products

Charlie (cburns99 at pacbell.net) asks about cleaning products that don't cost
an arm and a leg. Presumably the $16.15 Can / lb for PBW qualifies as an arm
& leg (although I think it's priceless I may have a vested interest since I
sell the stuff).

Charlie, you may wish to try B-Brite, which like PBW is an oxygen based
cleanser. IMO it doesn't do the job as effectively, but it's much cheaper at
$3.99 Can / lb. So you could use 4x as much.

Personally, if it doesn't warrant the expense  of PBW, I use REALLY HOT
WATER. It's cheap and highly effective.

cheers,


Stephen Ross -- "Vitae sine cerevisiae sugant."
______________________________________________
Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies, Saskatoon, SK
orders at paddockwood.com  www.paddockwood.com



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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 12:28:45 -0600
From: "Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies" <orders at paddockwood.com>
Subject: Saaz Substitutes

 John <jthomp6 at lsu.edu> asks about Saaz subs. German Spalter is very nice
and similar. Tettnang is of course very popular but not as similar. You can
see substitutes at www.paddockwood.com/guide_hop_varieties.html#SAAZ

As far as I know PU is made entirely with Saaz. Of course, using that high a
quantity of low alpha acid hop, you must be sure that they are fresh. Aged
hops can impart a sharp bitterness or vegetal flavour. You may wish to try
FWH too.

John mentioned he can't get good aroma from EK Goldings either. All hops
should be stored in the freezer, in oxygen barrier packaging, preferably in
inert gas or vacuum sealed.

EKG has wonderful aroma, but for a Czech Pils you may actually wish to
consider an American grown Ultra. I think it's fabulous and perhaps superior
to Spalter.  Ultra's aroma is outstanding IMO.


Stephen Ross -- "Vitae sine cerevisiae sugant."
______________________________________________
Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies, Saskatoon, SK
orders at paddockwood.com  www.paddockwood.com



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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 14:35:29 EDT
From: AKGOURMET at aol.com
Subject: digital thermometers

Word to the wise on digital thermometers -- just because they show the 
temperature down to the degree, or even tenth of a degree, doesn't mean 
they're accurate.  It's not uncommon for digital thermometers in the $10-$30 
price range to be +/- 3f.  Check them before you brew.  

Bill Wright
Juneau, Alaska
www.gourmetalaska.com


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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 11:53:09 -0700
From: Charley Burns <cburns99 at pacbell.net>
Subject: Yeast Washing

Someone asked about yeast recovery (based on my need for armless and legless
cleaning materials post). So I thought it might be helpful to repost this
very old, but very good set of guidelines. I think this originally was posted
in 1994 and may in fact be on the Wyeast website by now.

Yeast Washing for the Homebrewer

The following notes were taken from a demonstration given to the
Oregon Brew Crew by Dave Logsdon of WYeast Labs, on September 12th.
According to Dave, it was important for healthy yeast to be washed
free of trub and hop residue so that it could be stored for future
use. Dave said that the problem with simply storing the mixed contents
from a carboy after fermentation was that the unwanted particulates
would suffocate the yeast over a period of time. Most breweries, Dave
stressed, use an acid wash; the sterile water wash is much more
practical for homebrewers.

Objective: To recover yeast from a finished batch of beer for
repitching or storage for future brewing.

Materials: One primary fermenter after beer has been siphoned off or
otherwise removed.

Three sanitized 1-quart Mason jars with lids, half full of sterile or
boiled water. They should be cooled down, then chilled to refrigerator
temperature (ca. 38^F).

Procedures:

1) Sanitize the opening of the carboy (flame or wipe with chlorine or
alcohol)

2) Pour the water from one of the quart jars into the carboy. Swirl
the water to agitate the yeast, hop residue and trub from the bottom.

3) Pour contents from the carboy back into the empty jar and replace
the cover.

4) Agitate the jar to allow separation of the components. Continue to
agitate periodically until obvious separation is noticeable.

5) While the viable yeast remains in suspension, pour off this portion
into the second  jar. Be careful to leave as much of the hops and trub
behind as possible.

6) Agitate the second container to again get as much separation of
yeast from particulate matter as possible. Allow contents to rest
(about 1/2 hour to 1 hour) then pour off any excess water--and
floating hop particles--from the surface.

7) Pour off yeast fraction which suspends above the particulate into
the third container.

* Store this container up to 1 month refrigerated. Pour off liquid and
add wort 2 days before brewing or repitch into a new brew straight
away.

*It should be noted that in the actual demonstration, Dave eliminated
the final step;  the yeast in the second jar was essentially clean at
this stage and seemingly fine for storage.




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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 14:05:06 -0600
From: Ian Smith <isrs at cmed.com>
Subject: Digital therm. for brewing

I have 3 of the Polder digital thermometers and like everybody else who used
these units in the early days I had problems when water seeped in between
the probe and braid resulting in erroneous temperatures (300 F at room
temperature etc.) The solution was to dry the probe in the oven at 250-300 F
until the reading was correct.

The ultimate solution was to go down to my local electronics supply house
(hobby store or hardware store might also work) and purchase a foot of 3/16"
or 1/4" diameter (just bigger than the probe diameter) Teflon heat shrink
tubing. I slid the tubing over the braid/probe junction, shrank it with a
heat gun (kind of hot hair dryer) and viola! - no more water seepage
problems! Never had a problem since!

Cheers!

Ian Smith
isrs at cmed.com <mailto:isrs at cmed.com> 



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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 14:17:42 -0600
From: Ian Smith <isrs at cmed.com>
Subject: To suck or not to suck, that is my question.

I take a clean paper towel, wrap it around the end of the hose (leaving the
towel to start the siphon or I make an "O" shape with my forefinger and
thumb, wrap it (forefinger and thumb) around the paper towel and suck on the
"O".

Cheers

Ian Smith
isrs at cmed.com <mailto:isrs at cmed.com> 



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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 15:29:11 CDT
From: "steve lane" <tbirdusa at hotmail.com>
Subject: false bottom design for RIMs

I have built the the system but cheap'd out on the f-bottom and this weekend 
I paid the price.
System is very typical 3 keg, 2 tier ordinary, stole all design from web 
sites, type system.  My pump (typical mag-drive) will run 120 gal. per min. 
but I can't possibly, nor would I want to, run it at this pace.  I throttle 
back with a 1/2" ball valve on the output side of the heater element.
Piping is 1/2" rigid copper and out of the tun to the pump is 1/2" rein. 
flexible hose.  If I see a stick coming, the hose is visibly collapses and 
then I know that "Houston, we have a problem."
This weekend was "Houston, we have a very large problem."  Stuck the mash 
thru out the entire process.  Grain bill was 26 lbs. grain and 3 lbs. of 
toasted oats.
My false bottom is 1/16" stainless plate, perforated.  It is the material 
that you might find at the bottom of a drip pan, of a fountain drink 
dispenser, at a Sonic drive inn.  It has worked.... somewhat OK in the past 
but I know the time has come to send it to the bone yard.  The f-b sits only 
1/2" off the bottom with no weight on it and when the grain is added, my 
guess is that it is the bottom.
With out shelling out the $$$$ for a Sleepless in Seattle, or another high 
dollar unit, what might the experienced suggest?  The infamous pie pan, the 
pizza pan or the fix all " snake of slotted copper".  I do use the snake in 
the boiler without a hitch but will this coil pass the gpm's that i need to 
keep from scorching.  Obviously the current setup won't since my hose 
collapses with regularity.
TIA for your input.
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com



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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 17:47:31 -0400
From: "Steve" <stjones1 at chartertn.net>
Subject: Mashing specialty grains

Greetings, all.

I just heard something that I've never heard or read before about
mashing, but this guy is adamant about it. He says that specialty
grains, especially crystal and dextrin malt, should not be mashed with
the base malt because  the enzymes will 'destroy' the dextrins, leaving
nothing but fermentable sugars. He claims that this will lead to
overattenuation and thin body. He says if you want to use crystal, then
steep it in the boil kettle.

I've never seen this concept in print, and I've always put all my grain
bill in the mash tun, but I thought I'd present it to the group. What
say you all: Mash 'em all, or separate and steep?


Steve
5.58S, 1.24E rennerian
State of Franklin Homebrewers
http://users.intermediatn.net/franklinbrew



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Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 17:37:25 -0600
From: Ken Schwartz <kenbob at elp.rr.com>
Subject: Marketing


Charley Burns writes:

"Marketing... It too foams up like there's soap in it."

This is what we in Engineering have been saying all along.

- --
*****

Ken Schwartz
El Paso, TX
Brewing Web Page: http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer
E-mail: kenbob at elp.rr.com




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---