HOMEBREW Digest #3354 Sat 17 June 2000

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  carboy question ("Dalibor Jurina")
   ("Dan Diana")
  P-decoction (Eric Tepe)
  Stroh's fate? (James Jerome)
  Soluble and Insoluble protein question ("Michael Rose")
  cider pointers ("Thomas D. Hamann")
  more stupid brewers tricks ("steve lane")
  mystery beer (Nina Cohen)
  YEast slants: the saga continues... (Some Guy)
  Rims Questions ("J. Kish")
  Re: RIMS Question ("Dan Schultz")
  Ullmann's Encyclopedia (JohanNico)" <JohanNico.Aikema at akzonobel.com>
  The Jethro Gump-BT Report ("Rob Moline")
  Shame On South Australia ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  RE: Bottle cap labels (Art Tyszka)
  beer clip art (Jim Adwell)
  Re: beer clip art (Bill.X.Wible)
  Fermenting Cornies, pilot wort/beer oxidation (Dave Burley)
  re: the brew-ha-ha ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  re: cream ale yeast ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  Polyclar / cornies / HSA ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  re: an open apology ("Stephen Alexander")
  Liquid vs. dry yeast (for newbies) (Ted McIrvine)
  archives (Prestoniam)
  10 gallon cornies ("derek scott")
  Wyeast 1084 question ("Foster Jason")
  My deliberate mistake, photos, BdG, fermenting in cornies, those new to the HBD ("Graham Sanders")
  RE: Wyeast 1084 question ("Pat Babcock")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 22:31:10 +0200 From: "Dalibor Jurina" <dalibor.jurina at ri.tel.hr> Subject: carboy question Hello, I have made Teflon carboy cap with 1/2" valve, 10 mm SS pipe for pressure relief and 10 mm SS pipe long 2" for aerating wort. Since this carboy will stand upside-down aerating aquarium stone will have to stay in wort until fully fermented. Is this OK, or NOT? Also is Teflon heat resistant so I can sterilzate it in pressure cooker? Thanks Dalibor Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 14:07:32 -0700 From: "Dan Diana" <dands at ftconnect.com> Subject: A few more comments on Jeff Renner's posting in Homebrew Digest #3352 (June 15, 2000). For reference, Jeff writes: >Schlitz was my beer of choice back in the late 60's, too. can't say why, >but I convinced a friend's father who owned a restaurant and bar in >northern Michigan to switch his tap to Schlitz, and it went over well with >his patrons. >Kirby Nelson of Capital brewing in Middleton, WI, developed a recipe for >the WI sesquisentennial and "Great Taste of the Midwest" beer festival in >summer, 1998 from old Schlitz logs (I think, he would only hint very >broadly last time I asked, but I think that's what I heard earlier). They >subsequently brought out a similar beer as part of their regular year >'round lineup called "Capital 1900," although the recipe is not that old. >Anyway, as they make it now, it's 1.052, 30% white corn grits (somewhat >unusual), 22 IBU, all German hops (the one in 1998 used Cluster bittering >hops, I think. You can get white grits at the grocery store - don't get >the instant ones. Unfortunately, they're fortified with iron, which may be >a problem. Or you could use yellow corn meal, which I prefer, or flakes if >you don't want to do a cereal mash. >My guess is that Schlitz of thirty years ago may have been more like 1.044 >or 46 and 18 IBU. BTW, I occasionally buy a 40 oz. Schlitz. It's way more >tasty than the standard run-of-the swill. I understand that they went back >to their earlier recipe after sales dropped. However, I have a sneaky >suspicion that they may use corn syrup. Just a suspicion based on the low >cost of the beer, nothing else. >Good luck. >Jeff Jeff's suspicions on the Schlitz of 30 years ago (see pasted message below) is pretty consistent with what Fred Eckhardt reports in his Essentials of Beer Styles (1989 edition). He quotes Schlitz's profile as follows: OG=1.043 FG=1.010 % ABW=3.5 IBU=11 color=2.5 SRM >From surveys of literature, I think Schlitz was brewed from a recipe of 6 row malt and corn grits. Unfortunately, I could not find any ratios. I'd guess that amount of grits in the recipe ranged from about 65% (for a standard domestic beer) to around 20% (typical premium to super premium beer) based on what Eckhardt calls out in his discusssion of these two categories. By the way, articles around the 1981 timeframe of Schlitz's collapse indicated that the amount of malt used in Schlitz was increased to address the perceived quality issues. Hence, there is some evidence that they were tweaking the recipe to cut costs. Hops were likely to be the Clusters variety. Given the low level of bitterness (Eckhardt quotes 8-12 IBU as being the taste threshold), the hop addition schedule was not trying to provide much flavor or finish hopping. Instead, I'd guess that they were going only for bitterness additions near the beginning of the boil. I've never seen any discussion on Schlitz's yeast. They touted having a pure culture which I suspect was a proprietary strain. Does anyone out there have any info on what yeast they used or a suitable substitute? Hope this help, Please respond with corrections, comments and clarifications. Dan Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 17:29:18 -0400 From: Eric Tepe <erictepe at fuse.net> Subject: P-decoction Collective, I have a new pressure cooker and am wanting to try a p-decoction. My main question is do I decoct the thick part of the mash or just the first runnings? Any input would be appreciated. Private e-mail is ok. Thanks in advance to all that respond. Eric Tepe. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 20:12:48 -0600 From: James Jerome <jkjerome at bellsouth.net> Subject: Stroh's fate? In light of the recent thread concerning Schlitz, I was curious if anyone on the list can provide information on what happened to Stroh's. I was my favorite in high school (Yea, we could drink at 18 back then) and in college. Mine was certainly not a knowledgable palate at that age, but I remember their brew in the slightly narrower, taller can than other commercial beers. I thought it tasted a lot better than the A-B standard fare for the same price. A few years ago while traveling, I bought some Stroh's in a blue can to stock the hotel fridge. This was in Johnson City, TN. I bought them out of nostagia and because I had not seen any in South Carolina in a long time. Very bad choice. I sampled three or four to be sure it wasn't just an anomaly. Threw out the whole 12-pack and went and bought something actually drinkable. Was this a typical experience?, or just a poorly stored or old batch? What happened to Stroh's? Did their beer change and like Schlitz they lost a 'generation' of loyal consumers? Just curious... Jett in TN Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 18:14:23 -0700 From: "Michael Rose" <maltandhops at msn.com> Subject: Soluble and Insoluble protein question Collective, I have 2 questions regarding soluble and insoluble proteins. If I'm doing a decoction, the boiling will cause a breakdown of the protein-starch matrix releasing more protein into the mash. 1) Will this protein be soluble or insoluble protein? 2) How does insoluble protein benefit beer? Thanks, mike rose Crestline, CA maltandhops at msn.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 10:48:07 +0900 From: "Thomas D. Hamann" <tdhamann at senet.com.au> Subject: cider pointers Hi folks, tomorrow we are going to an Adelaide Hills orchard for an apple crush, fresh juice for 70 cents/litre. Of course I'm going to make a cider but all my books are in storage and I need a few pointers please, 1. I want to avoid a boil, is one vital? 2. if I pitch 14 grams of Coopers dried yeast (lots) will campden tablets be necessary? 3. will yeast nutrient or energizer be necessary? 4. should I add sugar of any form? High alcohol isn't that important. This will be a 20-25 litre batch. Many thanks in advance, Thomas. thousands of kays from Jeff but Hans Renner lives in Reynella, or was that Rennerella............. wadde hadde dudde da? ..............................................Stefan Raab, Koelner! wadden sonst! Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 22:00:46 CDT From: "steve lane" <tbirdusa at hotmail.com> Subject: more stupid brewers tricks It was a wonderful day to brew this spring and I was going to try out my brand new digital thermometer with 3' SS probe and timer. The same piece of crap that has been discussed for the last 3 weeks on the board. Half way through the mash, my readings went totally haywire and I had no idea where my mash temp was. I did, however, know where the nearest RadioShack was,,, and this thing was going back and going back now. Thinking ahead, I knew I would be gone for 30 minutes and I couldn't leave the RIMs heater on that long, (before I got the PID's), so I left the heater off and hit the gas burner. Just to give it a little bump before I left. In my infinite wisdom, I felt if the mash got a bump, so should I. Open another homebrew. Get in the car after downing the brew and realize I might of left the RIMs heater on. Get out of the car, check the heater, it is off. No worries and off I go. 30 minutes later I return to an extremely thick mash that is a rolling, eerrrrrrr.... bubbling boil. Left the gas burner on. Brew turned out great and it was my little secret as I served it to some "so called", expurtz. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 21:50:24 -0400 From: Nina Cohen <nina at swva.net> Subject: mystery beer Hello, folks: I happen to subscribe to a number of lists, including one for birders. Someone on that list mentioned a mysterious pair of beer cans he found. Here's the quote from his post: Just as a brief non-bird aside, at the farm where I work, a plank of cracked wood had came away from the side of the main barn. I took the opportunity to pull out some old starling nests from inside, and came across two rusty old beer cans. They're shaped like a tin of beans rather than a modern beer can, and have two opposing 'triangles' in the lid to drink through instead of the usual single triangle. They have a gold label and I think the beer is called 'Hudepohl', with a brewery in Cincinnati, Ohio. Could anybody have a guess as to how old they would be? My guess is that the people building the barn stuck them in there, though unfortunately, I don't know how old the barn is. Why did they have two holes instead of just one? I've never seen anything like it. I'm sure there must be some chatters out there who've had years of 'field experience' with drinking beer!! :) Can anyone help with this beer identification? Thanks, Nina Cohen Floyd, VA nina at swva.net Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 23:31:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Some Guy <pbabcock at hbd.org> Subject: YEast slants: the saga continues... Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager.... Well, now! The Irish Ale yeast appears to be thriving. A beautiful, clean looking sediment, crop of foam on the top. Orval has produced something. A very loose sediment. St. Louis Lager has produced a larger-grained looking sediment. The Bavarian Lager is doing something, too - some foam on surface, obvious sediment. Unfortunately though: the control has grown a slime mold. I intend to dispose of the control, recognizing the risk that the remaining samples could be likewise contaminated, but I'm going to do some testing on the remaining samples to determine what's growing in them - yeast or something other. Then, if it appears to be yeast, (brett and yeast in the Orval case...) I'll create small test batches to ferment with them. It appears that in at least two of my wee starters, I may have revived yeast put down five years ago. I love this hobby! - -- - See ya! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at hbd.com Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org HBD Web Site http://hbd.org The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock "The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged from my yeast lab Saturday Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 22:23:54 -0700 From: "J. Kish" <jjkish at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Rims Questions Beerlings, Raymond Lowe asked where is the best place for a valve in a RIMS system; before or after the heater? In my own system, there is no valve at all. I control the flow rate with an ordinary lamp dimmer. Dimmers don't like electric motors, so I connected a 60 Watt lamp across the motor. The dimmer dims the lamp and varies the speed of the magnetically coupled pump very nicely, so I can adjust the flow rate right where I want it! No valve necessary! You could omit the lamp by adding a snubber in place of it. Joe Kish Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 23:03:58 -0700 From: "Dan Schultz" <dschultz at primenet.com> Subject: Re: RIMS Question Raymond Lowe asks: >The question I have (it may be trivial) is related to the valve that >I will control the flow of the wort with. ...does it really mater where the valve is located? Not being one to conform, I put my valve at the outlet of my HERMS coil and I can't see where it has created any problems. I will note that while puting the strike water in my Gott Mash Tun, I pump the wort through the coil to remove air trapped in the line and to help keep the strike water hot. I never open the valve while the pump is off as all that is in the coil will drain back into the mash tun. IMHO, putting the valve at the coil outlet lets the pump supply its full capacity to getting the wort through the coil. The valve purley acts as the limiter. I was initially worried that I may only get a trickle of flow but in reality ended up with a 1 gal/min max flow rate. Too fast in my opinion. But better safe than sorry. Whether this makes sense in actual fluid dynamics, I have no idea. Burp, -Dan Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 09:00:10 +0200 From: "Aikema, J.N. (JohanNico)" <JohanNico.Aikema at akzonobel.com> Subject: Ullmann's Encyclopedia Hi, Maybe to technical for some, maybe interesting for others: Link directly to the sample article "Beer" at: A selection of articles can be downloaded free of charge to give you an impression of the high quality and user-friendly structure of the articles. --> http://www3.interscience.wiley.com:8087/ull_free05_fs.html Greetings from Holland, Hans Aikema http://www.hopbier.myweb.nl/ Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 02:18:19 -0500 From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at isunet.net> Subject: The Jethro Gump-BT Report The Jethro Gump-BT Report Folks, As much as it pains me, personally, just subscription money........ I was a bloke who re-signed with BT just before the end...I must disagree with all your flames of that op... And I am sure that you will hear it soon from the horse's mouth...but for now ...please allow me.. To explain that I know Stephen, not from just his aid to a small brewer such as I was, when he aided me, but also since then, when I was just a bloke on the phone...... Back then, I was a small brewer trying to do the un-known...advertise in full page, four color, 3 internationally distributed mags, a certain Gold Medal for an obscure Kansas brewery... Unknown area....as it didn't make any sense for such a brewery to touch such a thing.... Why, would it generate traffic in South Africa.... or Saint Lucia, Queensland? No, it was a pride thing.... And Stephen made it happen for a small dead end, 500 bbl brewery...such was his dedication to spirit of the industry.... This is not to say that we didn't have major support in dollars from our suppliers, and from All About Beer, and New Brewer...we did..... Stephen Mallery spearheaded the artistic support, paying for his photographers to do our ad, at his expense....and to his concept..... And with that support, and the support of the other mags, and suppliers, what would have been un-imagined...became a reality....... Now, to explain that no one wanted BT to succeed more than he did....(as if that needed mention) defies logic..... When one is losing one's pinnacle of achievement, as was BT to Stephen, legal liabilities weigh in..... Number One.....He has to pay his lawyer...... Number Two ....Comes obligations to subscribers....family....suppliers and other debts..... I know that he has....maintained all obligations.....and in my last conversation with him.... he stated that he had all the subscriber details, such as magazine requests...labels for same....and such ...already to go.....but it would take so many thousands of dollars to fulfill those requests....Money which he did not have......But expected to soon acquire....just for postage! Jethro sez, of course, Time will Tell......But, as for me, I continue to believe in Stephen Mallery, wherever his course leads.... And I will await my magazines....whenever they come....And even if they never come..... My main concern is that he doesn't do a huge financial debt, compromising his family, for producing the arguably best magazine that EVER existed on our sport..... For sins such as these, I would allow much latitude..... Jethro Gump Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 20:34:38 +1000 From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au> Subject: Shame On South Australia Dave Edwards feels perhaps he should apologise for disturbing my deep rooted football faith. And all I had to do to elicit such an apology was to mention the beer known as West End. This, to a South Australian (well certainly a self respecting homebrewing one), is akin to asking Superman to eat a lump of kryptonite!! No probs on the footy side Dave. Actually I have come to enjoy watching Aussie Rules. Ever since that mongrel crowd from Newcastle (the team Dave Lamotte loves) beat Geoff Toovey over the head in that spiteful Grand Final, I've been off the Rugby. Cept of course to see the Blues thrash the pants of Graham Sanders' beloved Maroons. I did enjoy that!! But what I am upset about is the beer available on tap at the Adelaide casino. It was once that Coopers Pale Ale, Sparkling Ale and Dark Ale was available. Now Coopers has been dumped completely. Very sad. The closest you can now get is a Southwark Pale Ale, nothing but a Coopers copy. This is to a foreigner a great pity. I was hoping to show off your casino to Steve Alexander (the great betting man) but I doubt he will like the Southwark. Never mind, from the sounds of things Steve won't be out here in a hurry. He's tied up at the moment writing last posts to Del. Steve has written a lot of last posts. I keep thinking at the rate he is going, he will have written a last post on every conceivable aspect of brewing, and we won't hear from him any more! Only joking Steve, I don't care what they all say about you, I think you're okay. Cheers Phil Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 08:25:41 -0400 From: Art Tyszka <atyszka at mail.cbf.com> Subject: RE: Bottle cap labels The bottle cap labels some people are looking for are pretty easy to find. I've been using them for several years. Check your local yellow pages for Paper Suppliers or Commercial Printing Suppliers. Stock number is "label SS50-P" (Label Blank Corp.) They're .75" in diameter and 120 to a sheet. I don't remember how many are in a box but probably 150 sheets or so. If you have a page layout program like Quark or PageMaker you can easily lay out a grid and put your logo and the name of the brew on the labels. They run through a laser or inkjet with no problem. - -- Art Tyszka Loyal Shepherd Brewing Co. http://www.loyalshepherd.com Chesterfield, MI Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 08:30:56 -0400 From: Jim Adwell <jimala at apical.com> Subject: beer clip art Michael O. Hanson and Bill.X.Wible are wondering where to find beer clip art. You have right in front of you as you read this a wonderful tool for finding things, called a computer, and associated keyboard and display. I'm very surprised that this lot of technically-oriented on-line brewers has to ask these things. Shame on you! :) Here's some quick links, found by typing in 'beer clip art' in the Yahoo search box and clicking the 'Search' button, and then clicking on 'Go To Web Page Matches' on the resulting page ( you can do your own search with all those other search engines ) : http://users.netropolis.net/dusty/angelsbeerclipart.htm this one even has music... http://www.brewery.org/ClipArt.html This is a clip art searcher; I have found it quite useful: http://www.webplaces.com/search/ And I am sure there's more; ya just gotta look for it. For an example of how to use an enormous amount of clip art on a webpage while keeping the download time short, see the following ( which has nothing whatever to do with beer): http://www.servtech.com/~jimala/why.htm Cheers, Jim Science is a tool, not a religion Beer is not football; football is not beer ( Ozzies excepted ) Jim's Brewery Pages: http://home.ptd.net/~jimala/brewery/ Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 09:03:45 -0400 From: Bill.X.Wible at QuestDiagnostics.com Subject: Re: beer clip art I am a computer programmer, Jim. I know all about this thing called a computer and its keyboard. I was looking for sites, links, etc. that have good beer-related clip art. And this SEEMED like a place where people would know about such things.I am perfectly capable of using yahoo, excite, lycos, infoseek, or any of the other search engines to find them - if I have hours to spend wading through all the crap that a search for 'beer', along with 'clip art' or 'images' would return, most of which would not be remotely related to what I was looking for. In short, I found, as have others, that the internet search engines pretty much suck at finding content. Thanks for the links you did supply, I will check them out. Bill Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 09:50:21 -0400 From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Fermenting Cornies, pilot wort/beer oxidation Brewsters: Often the topic comes up of using cornies for fermenters. I am not being critical but I am often puzzled why one would do this. I can think that perhaps it is possible to get several cornies into a fridge for temperature controlled fermenting, versus perhaps only one carboy because of the shape of the respective vessels, but are there other reasons? I could imagine the cornie used for this purpose is difficult to keep clean, isn't it? What with all those nooks and crannies around the fittings, the difficulty in making a good seal and such. How do you remove that bathtub ring easily? Aren't you limited to say 4+ gallons of beer versus 5 gallons? - ----------------------------------- Lynne O'Connor says that HSA on a pilot scale was noticable but on commercial scale not noticable and concluded that if commercial brewers couldn't agree, why should we worry? But, we homebrewers are doing pilot and smaller scale and this is perhaps the reason it is important to us ( the high surface area to volume ratio of our worts) as homebrewers and not to commercial brewers. Lynne, undoubtedly in your tours of older European Breweries you have seen boiling hot wort being emptied out of the boiler into a grant exposed to air through 4 - 6 inch diameter pipes.. How can they do it? The surface to volume ratio is quite low and little air gets mixed in. Not so with racking a 1/4 inch or less diameter stream as we homebrewers often do. It is fair for me to observe that the straightforward observation of this effect seems somehow elusive to many brewers and I'd guess there is(are) a reason(s) First, is that we must treat oxidation like we do an infection. Any oxidation at any point of brewing will impact the final results. So if a brewer is oxidising ( or infecting) his brew at other points, simply comparing one change in a technique may not indicate any effect. So, it is important to know that a brewer can produce unoxidised beer before he can reliably compare two different techniques and say aha! Another thought on HSA has bubbled up sort of sideways here in recent discussions and comments by me and other brewers ( Jeff R I think) and in my private correspondence that perhaps it is the specialty malts ( and I will extend an extrapolation here) containing melandoins or are roasted ( my observation about coffee) and perhaps not the lower kilned pales which cause the observations about HSA. British pale malts which are higher kilned pales may be more sensitive than European and US pale malts, for example. Munich malts and crystals may be suspect. Roasted barley and chocolate malts and such. It may be that wort composition differences is the source ot the "yes it is". "no it isn't" nature of these discussions on the effect of air on hot wort. This sort of thing might explain why Bud ( low specialty malts) can blow air into hot wort with impunity and why this may not be a good example for all homebrewers. It is counterintuitive, but that's why we do experiments. Any thoughts or observations along this line? My earliest observations in the late 1960s of the bad effect oxygen had on beer was with pale ales ( as I was living in Britain) but on returning to the US, gross oxidation of hot wort by filtering boiling wort through a collander to remove hops also produced horrible effects even with lager styles. These early observations were with extracts, the composition of the wort and such were unknown. Stopping this practice and chilling before filtering off the hops made such a remarkable improvement in beer quality that I have absolutely no doubt of the effect. As I have observed before, had I not discovered this, I would likely not be brewing today. Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 10:09:31 -0400 From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com> Subject: re: the brew-ha-ha William protests (rightfully so): >>Bill, pissed off that I read all of these discussions, and now I won't know how it ended up.<< I was really wasting a lot of my time, and bandwidth with the months long debate. It was not cowardice but a request from a friend that made me drop the discussion. So, with discretion being the better part of valor, it As to the results; you see today that Steve says it is meaningless no matter how I kept the variables the same and neutral. So what would be the point in posting my results to start another feud on line? I have more fun helping with specific questions. I tried to weigh the interest of some readers against the disgust of others. I thank you for showing interest at least. N.P. Lansing Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 10:09:35 -0400 From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com> Subject: re: cream ale yeast Dave Sapsis points out: >>Wahl and Henius clearly define both Cream Ale and >Sparkling Ale as *top* fermented beers. << I opted for the top fermenting yeast in my recommendation, but I was totally mislead by the BJCP guidelines that say, "A variation on American light lagers fermented at ale temperatures." in their 'History' description. >>Jeff Renner and I both gave editorial comments to Ben Jankowski's article on >Cream Ale in BT,<< That is one issue I sorely miss due to a lapse in my subscription :-( N.P. Lansing Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 10:43:38 -0400 From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com> Subject: Polyclar / cornies / HSA Nathaniel P. Lansing wrote about Polyclar: >There are many grades, A, AT, V, and VT, and more. Some must >be filtered, some do not need filtering. Polyclar A, most commonly >available does not require filtering. Polyclar A is no longer produced >but its' replacement will also not require filtering. Thanks for the response. I've gotten a few others stating that filtration is not required either (assuming the larger particle sizes here). >Rumour has it that Polyclar fits into German >Rheinheitsgebot (sp?) because after filtration there is zero (nada) added >to the beer. Someone asked me about this one yesterday and I couldn't remember where I saw it. As dumb luck would have it, I stumbled on this while flipping through Fix's AOBT book to get to the filtration section. I does seem to make sense. >Excessive amounts will remove hop bitterness, follow the label >directions as to dosage. This would be good for making those Schaeffer, Schlitz, Bud, Genessee, Rolling Rock clones. Use 2 filters for a Bud Light clone ;-) =========== Mark in Kalamazoo asked about keeping the at #$% diptube from rotating as the tank plug is torqued: I torques me too! When I'm impatient, I just stick my beanpole arm in the bloody thing and hold the tube in place with my hand as best as I can (allowing for some rotation). When I can take the time to track down my RoboGrip (tm) pliers, I use them. RoboGrips (or similar) will allow you to grab something like a tube and minimize the torquing. The jaws clamp on with enough force to grip, but not crush the tubing. I say minimize because I pad the toothed jaws since they might scratch the tube. That allows a minimal amount of slippage to occur. Now that you've gotten your arm into the thing, try getting it out! ;-) Since I'm gonna run sanitizer through it afterwards, so I don't care if I stick my arm in there. =========== Ronald La Borde doesn't trust CO2 flushing: >When I get around to it I would like to try pulling with a vacuum into the >next keg, but I still would use the racking out of the fermenter. I like the >vacuum idea because it would help remove the oxygen out of the receiving >keg. I just don't trust CO2 flushing. I used to pull a light vacuum (maybe 15 - 20 psi) with a faucet aspirator in the lab. I don't know where to find one, but would like to for various reasons. I don't believe that they're very expensive. The aspirator attaches to the faucet and you run water through it into the sink. The running water causes a vacuum to be built up in a port on the side of the contraption (Bernoulli principle). The port will accept a hose which you can attach to whatever vessel you want to create the vacuum in. You can use the aspirator to vacuum out a container or pull a liquid (such as sanitizer) through it. As for CO2 flushing, you probably couldn't vacuum out ALL of the air, just reduce the amount. Probably at a less efficient rate than displacing with CO2. But it couldn't hurt to try it out. I'm also unsure about the amount of vacuum these kegs can handle. They were designed to handle high outward pressures. I have no idea about how they handle vacuum and you could wind up damaging or stressing your equipment if the vacuum is too strong. ============== Lynne O'Connor commented about or favorite thread: HSA >Since brewing scientists can't reach a consensus on the importance of hsa, >I'd be disappointed if homebrewers did. This is the only sensible comment I've heard on HSA so far! All this postulating, formulating and experimenting... it's fakakta! Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 11:09:32 -0400 From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: re: an open apology Nathaniel P. Lansing writes .. >Apologies to all for the long running debate inre-mashout/foam. >I let someone push my button. Same here, it went far beyond topic. My "Oh Del, not again" note was a response to Del's earlier post, was posted before Del's apology, and would have been retracted had I been aware of this. It was not intended to continue the matter on HBD or "throw the last punch". Sorry about that Del. As I said a week ago in #3347 >'nuff said, needs to go offline or die. I'm glad we now agree on this at least. Steve Alexander Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 11:46:57 -0700 From: Ted McIrvine <McIrvine at ix.netcom.com> Subject: Liquid vs. dry yeast (for newbies) Yes, liquid yeasts are usually a cleaner yeast culture with less contamination. (I'm told that dry yeasts have improved greatly, but I haven't used a dry yeast in years.) I think it is great that you went right for the liquid yeast as a Newbie Brewer. Using liquid yeast and a wort chiller are the two easiest things a newbie can do to make better beer. White Labs claims that you don't need to step up the yeast with a culture. It is possible to make fine beer pitching from a swollen W-Yeast pack or a fresh White Labs pack, but one gets better results if the yeast only has to multiply by a factor of 10. Practically speaking, this means one should step up the yeast twice, with about 7 ounces of wort the first time followed by 64 ounces of wort the second time. And if one can time it to pitch at high krausen (when the yeast is bubbling) you get a fast ferment. Dropping a W-Yeast smack pack into a 1/2 gallon starter isn't as effective. Cheers Ted at the Prohibition Park Brewery, Staten Island "Jay Hummer" <jayhumm at zdnetonebox.com> asks > > What's the deal with liquid vs. dry yeast? I've read that liquid yeasts > are pure strains and produce better beer. So, for my first batch (brown > ale), I pitched White Labs liquid yeast directly into the primary and > it came out fine <snip> > I used Wyeast -- pitched with no starter. I racked it to a secondary > last night, and it was well fermented. The Wyeast directions said you > should prepare a starter if the recipe's O.G. is over 1.060 (or something > like that). <snip> > What's a newbie to do? > > - -- > Jay Hummer Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 16:38:54 EDT From: Prestoniam at aol.com Subject: archives what's the website to pick up the hbd archives for 1/1/99---to present? Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 18:13:20 -0700 From: "derek scott" <derekscott at ebtech.net> Subject: 10 gallon cornies In the process of lurking I've caught some talk about 10 gallon cornies and how they're rare. It occurs to me I've got one in the garage that I've never used, prolly never will. Anyone interested in it ? What I propose is a trade- I am about to buy an easymasher for my ss pot, and get some more carbonator caps. Alternatively can anyone suggest the best places to buy these online ? Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 20:00:51 PDT From: "Foster Jason" <jasfoster at hotmail.com> Subject: Wyeast 1084 question I have a question for those familiar with Wyeast 1084 (Irish Ale) Last week I smacked a pack of this yeast in preparation to brew an Oatmeal stout. I dutifully waited a couple days, and then a couple more and then a couple more. No growth. Nothing. Fearing the worst, and with brew day fast approaching, I borrowed a different strain of yeast from a friend who happened to have some going. The brew session went fine. Now, after about 8 days of sitting at room temperature (all conditions have been fine with the package - from purchase to today), I finally see the package expand. What I thought was dead yeast was simply slow. Here is my question. I have another brew day scheduled for a week or so from now. It is going to be a light-bodied honey ale. Will the Irish ale yeast be a decent yeast for such a light-bodied ale? Or will it create an odd taste? (I have only used 1084 for stouts and have been happy with it). Should I run and pick up new pack for the next session and scrap the 1084? Or will it work? Thanks for any help. Jason Foster Edmonton Alberta, Canada ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 13:32:08 +1000 From: "Graham Sanders" <craftbrewer at cisnet.COM.AU> Subject: My deliberate mistake, photos, BdG, fermenting in cornies, those new to the HBD G'day all I wrote >Back to Beer. Just to give an idea on fermenting in soda kegs, I do >something very similar to take advantage of the SS, and the room saving in >the fermentation fridge. I brew 38 litre (10 gallon to the heathens). I use >two 22 litre soda kegs (if your maths are up to date thats 18 litres per >keg) as my fermenters. This gives me the necessary head space, but I >modifly the kegs differently. Now, did anyone pick up the deliberate mistake. I know a number did, hence the E-mails that flew accross the pacific telling me. My we're quick on the uptake!Buts thats the point heathens, metric is soooo easy. Why not come aboard to the rest of the world, why you can even follow a real mans game like rubgy (Mr Edwards, take note you didn't cop my full abuse,thanks to the janitor.) Speaking of which, Phil wants to be careful, or he is going to cope a blast from me, janitor or not. Some things should not be said - cockroach. Back to beer for a moment. Those requesting photos (shit there are a few of you out there) they are coming. And here am I, thinging Americans love glass carboys, not a chance. Now what is the number of the patents office? If the photos are not in a format that works let me know. I'm going to have to get a web site and update my photo collection (a Bit out of date). A number of people have asked for more detail of my BdG receipe. Well its a copy (I hope ) of a La Chollette Ambre. Whether you go the wood and HSA is a matter of choice, but I the caramelisation is a must. 19 litres SG 1073 Pale Malt 2.5 kg Munich Malt 1.0 kg Cara-Vienna 0.2 kg Cara-Munich 0.4 kg Special B 0.2 kg Medium candy sugar 0.5 kg Mash 68c 28 IBU (17g Target FWH) Yeast was my problem. This I was not sure on. Many said to go with a Wit for its the same as a BdG, which is what I did. Culture of Blanche de Chambly. Its producing a mild fruitiness I think is about right. Further to my suggestion about the glass plate on the corny keg in the fridge. Many have asked (this was expected) "a fridge is not sterile environment" . Well of course its not, but there are a couple of points about a fridge HBDers should consider. Being sealed the amount of contamination from outside air currents is limited to only when you open the door. Not often I would think. The air inside the fridge is fairly still, so the chances of contamination are very low. Low humidity inside is also not very inducive for airborn contamination, in fact its works against it. Finally, the glass plate extends beyond the rim of the lid. Like a petre-dish, any contamination has to get under and up under the lid. very difficult. By the time any bug has got thru that the beer has finished fermenting and its own properties protect it from the odd stray bug. I know this has been said before, but I think a reminder is in order to those new to the HBD. You are going to see a lot of talk, and the odd disagreement a times, on all sorts of technical things, Mash-outs, foam retention, pitching rates, hot side airation etc. You'll find most of the arguments are about small differences overall. I get particularly annoyed when they say - The big Boys (commercial breweries) do this. I love these discussions as it improves my knowledge, but to the average home brewer, a lot of these argument are for the big boys in brewing, and dont apply in any great deal to most. The big boys are right at the extreme of brewing, any error will be disasterous, the most minor of variation can make or break. If you want to brew a beer with 40% sugar, fermented in 4 days, lagered in two weeks and drink, well yes these discussions are relevant, but we home brewers have a much larger margin of error, and will still get excellent results, even if we do not mash-out, or not pitch at comercial levels or are not as sterile as them and so on. To the newies, enjoy the discussions, but put it in perspective. Most of us do. Shout Graham Sanders Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 23:48:40 -0400 From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at hbd.org> Subject: RE: Wyeast 1084 question Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... "Foster Jason" <jasfoster at hotmail.com> writes of Wyeast 1084 question... > I have a question for those familiar with Wyeast 1084 (Irish Ale) > Last week I smacked a pack of this yeast in preparation to brew an Oatmeal > stout. I dutifully waited a couple days, and then a couple more and then a > couple more. No growth. Nothing. <SNIP> > Now, after about 8 days of sitting at room temperature (all conditions have > been fine with the package - from purchase to today), I finally see the > package expand. What I thought was dead yeast was simply slow. This isn't really going to be pertinenet to your question as much as it is pertinent to the situation you find yourself in, but I'll continue anyway :-) Interesting! I just had the identical experience with an Irish Ale (1084) with a May 2000 crimp. Took absolutely forever to swell (OK, it took a week), and the starter is, well, "apathetic", for lack of a better term. Enough so that I delayed the brewing of the target beer until I can determine whether this yeast is viable. In contrast, the "Lazarus" starter from the 5 year old slant is quite a performer - but, again, I need to verify just what's going on there. Could be a contaminant. In contrast, about two days prior, I popped a Wiehenstephan with a November '99 stamp, and it nearly jumped off the counter top, it swelled so fast. Popped it before I went to bed, and it was all plump and voluptuous by dinner the next day (all told, around 13 hours). The only "odd" thing about my treatment of smack packs is that I usually put them under my wife's aquarium pump after the smacking. I've found the slight heat coupled with the vibation of the thing stimulate a faster swelling of the pack. Still, I mirror your experience with the 1084. Just seems awfully sluggish. Unusually sluggish. Not how I remember the yeast at all. - See ya! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at hbd.com Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org HBD Web Site http://hbd.org The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock "The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged from my yeast lab Saturday Return to table of contents
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