HOMEBREW Digest #3366 Sat 01 July 2000

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  'nother Adelaidean ("Darren Miller")
  re: re: yeast  - *CORRECTION* ("Stephen Alexander")
  Aussie Mud Slinging ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  Officers (Crispy275)
  Club officers / elections (Crispy275)
  The recent National AHA Convention in Livonia, Mi. (Crispy275)
  re:chemical oxygenation ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  STROH's (FredScheer)
  Re: mashing with fresh sweet corn? (Joel Plutchak)
  H2O2 for oxygenation (Demonick)
  Bulging Cans ("Tracy P. Hamilton")
  Electing Officers / Bulging cans / Pony kegs (David Harsh)
  grain/extract ("Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies")
  Re: aussie lingo....and/or any diabetic brewers? (Wimpy48124)
  Water Analysis (stevewo)
  Hangover Research (Brad Miller)
  Re: Water Analysis ("John Palmer")
  Technology ("Houseman, David L")
  Cherries ("Eric R. Lande")
  Sodium Hexametaphosphate ("Grant W. Knechtel")
  lambics and appellation control (piatz)
  re: pH heck ("Dan Stedman")
  re: oh the horror! (Bill.X.Wible)
  All-Gran (Lonzo McLaughlin)
  Water ("A. J.")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 16:46:06 +0930 From: "Darren Miller" <darren.miller at adelaide.edu.au> Subject: 'nother Adelaidean G'Day to yas, I too reside in Australia, South Australia, Adealide even. You could piss from my house in Clapham to Mitcham. Thats all Drink on Darren Miller Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 03:12:03 -0400 From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: re: re: yeast - *CORRECTION* should have read ... >It's NOT likely the SNPA lacks it's FLO genes, what is more likely ... ^^^^ Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 18:54:25 +1000 From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au> Subject: Aussie Mud Slinging My recent references to the physical appearance of Mr Eric Fouch Esquire were rude and insulting. They could be seen in no other light. It is indeed magnanimous of Eric and Fred to take it as a compliment, in fact a "badge of honour". Though I must silently confess I had no antipodal inferences in mind. But you can see, since of recent time a reasonable number of Aussie brewers have surfaced on the HBD, that a favourite national sport of ours is to tear each other to pieces. Well, we really prefer to tear people of other nationalities to pieces. But left in a room (or forum) by ourselves, as you can see, pretty soon we are all "up each other". Sorry, I think that should read "at each other". It was in this spirit that the great Aussie mud slinging over whose beer is best, came into being. This is most apparent on a Friday night at the Burradoo Hilton when "out of state" beer buffs are silly enough to tell the locals where they are from. And even sillier to add that in their state the beer is better. A good night of biffo always ensures! There are now far too many Aussies on this digest for me to collectively insult all of them, they're coming out of the woodwork! I can feel a "cat swinging" coming on. Especially in this freezing cold weather here in the Southern Highlands. One has to do something to keep warm. Wes Smith says "Great weather for making lagers" Only trouble is, it's not great weather for drinking lagers. More appropriate to be knocking back a good strong Scotch Ale I would think, maybe even a Bonox as well. A Bonox warms the heart (especially if you stir in a tea spoon of battery acid) but recently Steve Lacey exhausted himself writing a prolific post and declared he was going to "Have a Bex and a good lie down" What a Sydney poofter!! Here in Burradoo, serious beer drinkers have a Becks (or two) and a good lie down!! Cheers Phil Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 06:09:29 EDT From: Crispy275 at aol.com Subject: Officers Here at the Fermental Order of Renaissance Draughtsmen (F.O.R.D.) we have a president (meeting organizations, general management, meeting itinerary), vice president (major responsibility - summer picnic & competition director), treasurer ($), secretary (newsletter, membership id cards, membership database), web page coordinator, equipment manager (style series, books, magazines and other handouts), club mooch (a fine lady who does not brew but loves our beer and who doubles as our photographer). All officers are responsible for PR, obtaining club discounts from local homebrew retailers, as well as raffle prizes for club picnics. We try to meet quarterly to set up events, calenders, meek out responsibilities, etc. We need a quorum for expenditures. Check our club's newsletter linked to this forum and you will see what we have been up to and some of the activities we do. Hope this helps. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 06:17:40 EDT From: Crispy275 at aol.com Subject: Club officers / elections Oh yeah, elections are in November (solicitations for nominations are made in September & October newsleteers and meetings with lots of cojoling and whining at meetings) and the new officers are installed at the December meeting. We rarely have more than one person running for a position, so there is little need for ballots. Last year we had 2(!) people run for prez, so we utilized our web site to have people vote, so they had a month to make their choice. While we have approx. 60-70 paid up members each year, the core of the club is about 3 dozen or so hard core brewers who make the majority of the meetings. Our best events tend to be summer picnic, christmas meeting and anytime we can get a local beeer distributor of interesting brews to drop off a few cases of their wares for our "evaluations". Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 06:28:44 EDT From: Crispy275 at aol.com Subject: The recent National AHA Convention in Livonia, Mi. OK, a week has passed and I have a few minutes to reflect on the recent MIY2k. In a nutshell, this was an awesome event that facilitated the kind of brewers community that one rarely gets to experience outside of a club meeting, only 3-4 days longer. First, an observation. Homebrewers are the most "ruley" (as opposed to unruley) group of drinkers I have ever meet. To paraphrase Max Yazger of Woodstock fame, "Three days of fun and beer, and nothing but fun and beer". Considering many of us had our first taste of brew by 9:00am and did not get to bed anywhere near a reasonable hour, it is incredible to me to see no fights, no loud arguements (other than "No, this brew is definitly better!), hardly anything that would qualify as disention. Being around all the names that I respect and have gotten to know through various media was exciting. Being a part of the actual organization and help was fullfilling. Making new friends, trying awesome brews was great! Folks, if you ever get the beer bullets necessary to pull this off, you got to experience one of these! My hat goes off to all those involved with the organization and delivery of this event. It takes a lot of time and commitment to pull it all off and with the exception of running out of glasses early and often, it basically went off without any anguish, serious SNAFU's or disasters. In fact, if you were not part of the behind-the-scenes action, it appeared to go off without a hitch. The knowledge gained, the feedback received and the memories made will stay with me for a long time. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 08:54:40 -0400 From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com> Subject: re:chemical oxygenation Dan L. asks, >>Now, Is there a non gas way to oxygenate wort? I am thinking hydrogen peroxide or something.<< Sorry, but definitely_not_hydrogen peroxide, though the concept sounds nice peroxide is a sanitizer, do you want to sanitize the yeast into oblivion? I read this in a Brewing Techniques a few years back. Oh by the way, the guy stiffed me on those beer corks I had been planning to get, still searching though. N.P. (Del) Lansing Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 09:01:53 EDT From: FredScheer at aol.com Subject: STROH's >>Bob Hall wrote: >>Anyway, I think the beer that opened my eyes >>to a higher level of quality was Stroh's >>Signature. It was such a revelation to my >>uncultured taste buds that I >>even wrote Stroh's a letter of appreciation. Bob: When I saw your posting, I remembered a quote that Peter Blum (former STROH Pilot plant manager) said at the AHA convention last week during his lecture on History of Brewing in Detroit: "When you had a STROH beer, you never go back to another brand --- it would be like kissing your sister" :-) Fred M. Scheer Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 08:28:37 -0500 (CDT) From: Joel Plutchak <plutchak at ncsa.uiuc.edu> Subject: Re: mashing with fresh sweet corn? In HBD #3365 Dan Senne asks: >Although the season is short, here in Collinsville, IL we're >blessed with some outstanding sweet corn during the summer. >[...] Has anyone ever brewed using fresh corn as an adjunct? I haven't. But if you're willing to stretch your definition of "beer" a bit beyond the average, you can do what I plan to do: give chicha a try. A friend-I've-never-met has some descriptive web pages up: http://users.deltanet.com/~kacz/ - -- Joel Contemplating indigenous brewing in feed-corn country, Illinois Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 06:55:53 -0700 From: Demonick <demonick at zgi.com> Subject: H2O2 for oxygenation >Now, Is there a non gas way to oxygenate wort? I am thinking >hydrogen peroxide or something. In the "great minds think alike column", I posed the exact same question in HBD 1771, 3 July 1995. Subsequent to the question the idea was discussed randomly until about HBD 1815, under the key words peroxide/H2O2/aeration (watch for capitalization) After the discussion I was convinced that it was not a good idea. A post in HBD 1809 by Glen Tinseth convinced me: >Not to mention oxidizing hop aroma and flavor compounds, reduced >melanoidins, and a host of other things you don't want to oxidize. >I'll stick with my little aquarium pump, bubbler, and HEPA filter. Domenick Venezia Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 08:47:49 -0500 From: "Tracy P. Hamilton" <chem013 at uabdpo.dpo.uab.edu> Subject: Bulging Cans >>Al Beers asks about bulging extract cans of Mountmellick stout extract >>and should he: a) toss 'em or b) Use w/ caution? Kim Thomson: >I would go ahead and use them. I have seen these cans >numerous times with a bit of a bulge and no flavor difference. Why not >go ahead and brew it if you are going to toss it anyway? You can always >toss it later in the brewing process if the flavor is wrong at racking. I agree 100% with Kim, except for boiling time (see below). I got a forgotten can once that was significantly past the expiration date, (not from Kim!) and the bulge was very noticeable. I tried to go ahead and see if I could salvage it, so I decided to make a Spice Beer. Because of my concern about botulism, I called it Scary Spice. When told what I did, some people would not drink it. It was indeed the Spice Girls of beer. It was dry and astringent (the latter because it had waaaaay too much ginger). Age did not improve this one!. :( I suspect that whatever was in there ate up some of the sugar, and the highly fermentable rice solids I also added didn't help. In the process I did some reading on botulism. Botulism toxin is destroyed by 10 minutes of boiling. So I would do at least that, if there is a concern about a bulging can. Also, in most cases, it is not botulism, but one can't take the chance it isn't. I doubt that your cans are as extreme as mine was. You should have plenty of sugar, and I would guess the flavor will also be fine. Taste the wort after 10 min. >>Al also states: Contents will be boiled for an hour.... Kim: >We recommend that canned kits only be boiled for 5 min. for sanitation. >Further boiling only serves to darken the beer (though not a problem >with a stout) and to caramelize the flavor. The manufacturer doesn't even >recommend boiling for the 5 min. Tracy P. Hamilton Birmingham, AL Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 10:43:17 -0400 From: David Harsh <dharsh at fuse.net> Subject: Electing Officers / Bulging cans / Pony kegs Bill.X.Wible at QuestDiagnostics.com asks about electing officers: First, e-mail me privately if you want a copy of our club by-laws. We "adapted" them from the Dayton, OH club (DRAFT) a few years back and its handy to be able to have a written document for reference. It actually lists explicit duties of each postition. Our club (Bloatarian Brewing League, sponsor of Beer and Sweat, the world's only all keg homebrew competition, held every August in Cincinnati, see hbd.org/bloat for details - just a plug, Eric!) elects officers for two year terms. Positions include President, V.P., Treasurer, and Secretary. The Newsletter Editor is an appointed position, although bylaws state that the Secretary MAY publish the newsletter. This prevents an editor from acting to the detriment to the club, but this isn't a problem with most people stupid enough to take the job (note: currently, that's me) We take officer nominations in October, hold elections in November, and install new officers in December. Voting is done by secret ballot at the meeting. One advantage of spreading out the nomination/voting process is that candidates can have a blurb in the newsletter (a SHORT paragraph) exhorting election of their opponent, and there is time to find other people in case of a lack of nominees (it happens sometimes) We're already talking about the next batch of officers to try and find new blood - you really need to plan ahead from the club standpoint. Plan ahead on your elections and get the word out. I don't think the particular month really matters, but you don't want to have your elections during a historically light attendance month (i.e. summer during vacation time) You may find people willing to be an officer if asked, but some people need to be asked. - -------------------------------------- ALABREW <alabrew at mindspring.com> speaks on bulging cans My only direct experience with bulging cans is some infamous "Premier" extract purchased a few years ago at a great discount. The beers made from this stuff were vile and revolting. And those were their good qualities. Want me to tell you how I really feel? Not hold back? ;) > We recommend that canned kits only be boiled for 5 min..... > I don't know where this "boil for 1 hour" thing started.... Probably because most recommend UNHOPPED extract so you actually have a clue about what hopping level you will end up with. From what I can tell, 2 cans of extract could give you anywhere from 15 to 35 IBU in 5 gallons depending on brand and I've never seen it specified on the can. Of course, I haven't bought a can of extract in several years, so maybe that has changed. - ------------------ On pony kegs - don't forget that the true pony keg required the wooden "hammer into place" tap! If you missed on your first try, you had a beer geyser on the ceiling until you got it beaten into place. As far as corner carryout stores being called "pony kegs", I think that's just Cincinnati provincialism (please?). Dave Harsh Bloatarian Brewing League Cincinnati, OH Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 08:46:14 -0600 From: "Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies" <orders at paddockwood.com> Subject: grain/extract "Perry Q. Mertz" <pqmertz at netweavers.com> asks " If I can buy M&F extract for $1.75/lb, am I going to REALLY increase the taste of my beer that much, or is the ego thing about doing it all yourself worth it" Hi Perry, since you are already using a good quality extract with fresh specialty grain, you are already making great ale. FWIW, one of our customers just took a Gold medal in the Aurora Brewing Challenge 2000 in Edmonton, AB, with one of our EasyBrew (dry malt extract and specialty grain) kits for his Scottish 60 Shilling. ABC2000 is the only Canadian competition that qualified for MCAB3 (Masters Championship of Amateur Brewers), so I think competition was strong. He was competing with all-grainers. So you can make great beer from extract. Bass is certainly within reach. But for a really excellent beer I believe that all-grain can be much better than extract, if you use high quality malt. Cheap grain may not give as good results as extract! And the satisfaction of knowing you did it from scratch is immense. Cost and time are probably large factors as well. An all grain batch runs around $15 here, and one of our extract kits is about $25. But the extract kit is finished in and hour and a half, but the all-grain brew day runs around 5 and a half hours. cheers, ______________________________________________ Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies, Saskatoon, SK orders at paddockwood.com www.paddockwood.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 11:03:20 EDT From: Wimpy48124 at aol.com Subject: Re: aussie lingo....and/or any diabetic brewers? In regards to the recent posts about aussie speak, are our fellow brewers DownUnder trying to rock my world by telling us that Outback Steakhouses aren't kosher ?!?! I mean, it's always been my dream to someday visit Australia. When I bring it up to the wife she lets [keyword lets, she's so tight with that damn purse she squeeks!!] me go to the OutbackSteakhouse to get a couple of Fosters [hey, it's not good but I want to be aclimized to the local suds if ever she says yes] ,look at the stuffed Koalas and boomarangs on the walls, and get some bonzer tucker, Then she takes me home and sits me in front of the television to watch a marathon of "The Crocodial Hunter", keeps me mug filled and hopes I pass out forgeting all this nonsense! But now.. what's the use? If it's not authentic, well why go? I always pictured the Baron and the others brewing in khaki shorts and shirts with bush hats on, grabbing the occasional snake or croc, saying..." Gawd, ain't she a beauty, well by cricky, we'll let her go before she gets hurt...... You guys can't tell me that that isn't the way it is in OZ !.........first the toothfairy, then Santa Claus, Now this! Sometimes life sucks! Oh Well, That's probally why we have beer! --------------------- On a different note, I'm putting together a RIMS. I have almost everything, just have to put it together and I hope to start brewing with it in September. I'm just getting back into the hobby after a 4 year absence due to health reasons Are there any folks that are brewing that are type 2 diabetics? My sugar is in control without medication, just excersize and eating right. I just missed brewing so much I had to get back in! I just wanted to know if I'm an anomally? IN BEER, THERE IS LIFE!! Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 09:43:00 -0600 From: stevewo at us.ibm.com Subject: Water Analysis Looks like my formatting has something to be desired in the 1st post. Let me try another way. Any water types care to let me know what this "really" says? Here is the report: Hardness (ppm) Mean: 102 Median: 105 Standard Deviation: 15.5 Minimum: 59 Maximum: 144 Count: 30 Coefficient of Variation: 15% TDS (ppm) Mean: 224 Median: 224 Standard Deviation: 25.8 Minimum: 157 Maximum: 298 Count: 30 Coefficient of Variation: 12% Sodium (ppm) Mean: 30 Median: 30 Standard Deviation: 5.0 Minimum: 18 Maximum: 38 Count: 30 Coefficient of Variation: 17% pH (units) Mean: 7.7 Median: 7.8 Standard Deviation: .32 Minimum: 6.9 Maximum: 8.2 Count: 30 Coefficient of Variation: 4% Chlorine (ppm) Mean: 0.8 Median: 0.8 Standard Deviation: .12 Minimum: 0.6 Maximum: 1.0 Count: 30 Coefficient of Variation: 14% Temperature (deg C) Mean: 25.5 Median: 25.4 Standard Deviation: 1.47 Minimum: 22.1 Maximum: 28.0 Count: 30 Coefficient of Variation: 6% Presently, I do nothing to my water for brewing. I use water that I gather from the fridge water dispenser that has a carbon filter between the hose from the house line and the hose to the fridge. I make all my (American) pale ales and lagers using this water. I all-grain brew using this (carbon filtered) water for my mash water and sparge water. I've never had any complaints nor problems, but it can never hurt to be better! TIA, Steve Wood Corona, AZ. Internet: stevewo at us.ibm.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 09:26:45 -0800 From: Brad Miller <millerb at targen.com> Subject: Hangover Research After doing years and years of research in the Department of Hangover Studies at the University of Washington the two crucial remedies that I have discovered are: Gatoraid and the Burger King Wopper. When taken together they have a synergistic effect on the down regulation of exbibation. (I recommend the Lemon Lime Gatoraid due to the staining powers of the other flavors in the event of a "Return to Sender") While the Gatoraid cures "That Deep Down Body Thirst", the Wopper, or rather the Wopper's grease coats the stomach. (Or give the body something else to worry about) Please note: Other burgers have not apartmently, I mean clinically tested, so results may vary. It has also been noted that BudMilloors will induce a hangover with more regularity than will homebrew. Brad Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 09:33:08 -0700 From: "John Palmer" <jjpalmer at gte.net> Subject: Re: Water Analysis Steve posted a water analysis that I could not quite make out due to ascii formating conflicts with my Outlook email program. I will hazard a guess that the relevant numbers are: Hardness (as CaCO3) 102 ppm Sodium 30 ppm Chlorine 0.8 ppm Total Dissolved Solids are not relevant. pH is not really relevant either, except as an indicator of the veracity of the report (it should be between 7-8.3, anything else is weird). What is missing here is an Alkalinity measurement. It would be nice if Sulfate was listed too. If you are an extract brewer, you are concerned with Sodium, Chloride and Sulfate because of their affect on beer flavor. Briefly: sodium and chloride in small amounts add sweetness and smoothness, sulfate adds crispness to the hop bitterness. A high-levels combination of sodium and sulfate makes for a very harsh bitterness. If you are an all-grain brewer (or steeping a lot of grain) then you are concerned with the above, but more concerned about the Hardness and Alkalinity balance (aka. Residual Alkalinity) and their affect on mash pH. Hardness is made up of Calcium and Magnesium, and Alkalinity is made up of Bicarbonate (HCO3). Residual alkalinity is an indicator of the mash pH potential of the water. >From my book: www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter15.html "In 1953, P. Kohlbach determined that 3.5 equivalents (Eq) of calcium reacts with malt phytin to release 1 equivalent of hydrogen ions which can "neutralize" 1 equivalent of water alkalinity. Magnesium, the other water hardness ion, also works but to a lesser extent, needing 7 equivalents to neutralize 1 equivalent of alkalinity. Alkalinity which is not neutralized is termed "residual alkalinity" (abbreviated RA). On a per volume basis, this can be expressed as: mEq/L RA = mEq/L Alkalinity - [(mEq/L Ca)/3.5 + (mEq/L Mg)/7] where mEq/L is defined as milliequivalents per liter." A 100% base malt mash made with distilled water will have a mash pH of 5.7-5.8 The residual alkalinity value will change that. I have constructed a nomograph that approximates the changes based on Kohlbach's work. Last month when Jim LIDDIL posted his experimental mash pH results, it agreed with the values predicted by the nomograph. (So the theory continues to be sound, and the nomograph is pretty accurate to the theory.) Hope this helps, John Palmer jjpalmer at realbeer.com Palmer House Brewery and Smithy www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer/ How To Brew - the book www.howtobrew.com/ Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 13:20:09 -0400 From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com> Subject: Technology While this discusses wine, the same issues may relate to any corked product including I image, beer. Brussels. Microwaving may eliminate corked wine problems. Corked wine, the curse of gastronomes for centuries, may be consigned to history by microwaving the stoppers before bottling, according to research published yesterday. A consortium of German, Portuguese and Spanish researchers, funded by the European Union, has developed a technique of bombarding corks with microwaves before bottling in order to kill off damaging microbes present in natural cork. These microbes cause a chemical reaction that ruins 500 million Euros ($695million) worth of wine every year, according to the EU's executive body, the European Commission. Reuters Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 13:29:24 -0400 From: "Hill, Steve" <SHill at advanta.com> Subject: TEMPORARY WATER HARDNESS Hello All: This question is for the water critics. I just moved into a house that has VERY hard well water. Lets just say that when I boil a pot of water for pasta --- there is a nice lime deposit on the bottom when finished. I have a 15 gallon 3 tier Herms system. I plan to boil 15 gallons of water the night before brewing in the Sparge/Hot liquor tank to drop out the temporary hardness and then use this water for mashing and sparging on brew day. Do I need to then rack off the boiled but cooled water before I heat it again for brew day? If I heat up the water again while it is still sitting on the sediment, will this re-dissolve it into the water? Thanks Steve Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 13:57:05 -0400 From: "Eric R. Lande" <landeservices at juno.com> Subject: Cherries Jim, I've never used cherries, but I have experience with other fruit (ie. peaches). I assume that you are going to cut, crush or otherwise expose the meat of the cherries. That assumption being made, yes you will get more fermentables (a good thing - otherwise it would be too sweet to drink). In fact, you will likely find a lot of cherry skins after you rack and wonder what happened to the meat. The yeast will actually eat some, a lot, most or all of the cherry right off the skin. As for secondary, if you rack onto the secondary cherries while there is still a little activity in the primary (maybe one bubble every 5-10 sec.) I would guess that it will take off again. I would also consider racking again after secondary ferment subsides to let the beer clear. Eric Lande Doylestown, PA Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 11:01:44 -0700 From: "Grant W. Knechtel" <GWK at hartcrowser.com> Subject: Sodium Hexametaphosphate Mark asks in HBD 3365: >A friend of mine in the food science dept at UF sent me the following. My >question would be, what is hexametaphosphate and could it be a viable >ingredient in beer? If so, it opens up a whole new realm of shitty marketing >possibilities (but at least AB won't be playing in that arena - not enough >hops). >COMBINED EFFECT OF HOP RESINS AND SODIUM >HEXAMETAPHOSPHATE AGAINST CERTAIN STRAINS >OF ESCHERICHIA COLI -snip- Sodium Hexametaphosphate is a dispersant, also known as Metaphosphoric acid, hexadosium salt, or Sodium polymetaphosphate, and once was the main ingredient in Calgon. We use it in our geotech lab to disperse clays for grain-size analysis. >From the abstract, I'm not sure what concentrations the food chemists were using but my guess is it would also interfere with yeast flocculation. Probably not what i'd want in my beer, but "one never knows, do one?" ;-} Prost! -Grant aka LabRat Neue Des Moines Hausbrauerei Des Moines, WA, USA Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 13:37:20 -0500 (CDT) From: piatz at cray.com Subject: lambics and appellation control In HBD #3365 Jim Liddil wrote: > > For lambics I beleive in the designation of appalation controlle > (sp?). Sure even Van roy thinks we don't need to use the plambic > term. But we are not using sponataneous fermentation. Few of us have > oak barrels infected with the right mix of microbes. What we make is > in the style but not the real thing. Just my view. For those that aren't really into lambic (I know Jim is) take a look at HORAL v.z.w. or the "Hoge Raad voor Ambachtelijke Lambikbieren" (E: High Commission for Traditional Lambicstyle Beers - free translation) for the protection of traditional gueuze and lambik beers. Their web page is at http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pvosta/horal.htm One thing I notice is that Cantillon is not a member of HORAL vzw. In late 1997 when I was in Belgium visiting lambic breweries HORAL vzw was just getting started, I don't remember all the discussion as to why Cantillon didn't belong back then. Quoting from one of the links under that page: A regulation of the European Community of 21 January 1997 according to the regulation (EEC) No. 2082/92 on certificates of specific character for agricultural products and foodstuffs ( GREEN EUROPE. No. 1. 1996. Office for Official Publications of the EC. Luxembourg. 45 p. Tabl. Graph. Ann. Free. ). This European regulation defines new rules for the the lambic beers, the new rules give a better protection of the traditional product. A traditionally produced Geuze will now be called "Old" Geuze. I just give you the names of the traditional products, as they will be used once the new legislation is incorporated in the national law: For Geuze it will be: vieille gueuze, vieille gueuze lambic, and vieux lambic(Fr.), Oude Geuze, Oude Kriek Geuze-Lambiek and Oude Lambiek(Fl.). For fuit beers derived from Lambic: vieille kriek, vieille kriek lambic, vieille framboise lambic and vieux fruit lambic(Fr.), Oude Kriek, Oude Krieklambiek, Oude Frambozenlambiek and Oude Fruitlambiek(Fl.). For Faro, the name is written the same in French and Dutch/Flemish. The beers that do not have "vieille" or "Oude" in their name will be the more commercial mass-market products. >From the above quote it isn't clear to me that there is really a protected appellation for lambic-style beers but they are sure trying to get to that point. If you want details (and photos) on lambics follow the links under the URL above, some take you to Jim Liddil's work. - -- Steve Piatz Eagan, MN Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 14:01:00 -0500 From: "Dan Stedman" <dstedman at mn.rr.com> Subject: re: pH heck David Burley writes: >Now all this stuff about pH for mashes being in the 5.2 to 5.3 range is >true under certain conditions 1) The mash pH is MEASURED at the mash >temperature ( in the 150s F region) with a temperature compensating pH >probe. This same mash when cooled to room temperature will measure >something like 5.4 to 5.6 ( the pH drops on heating from RT by 0.2 to 0.3 >units) . 2) your brewing water has calcium levels which help drop the pH. >3) You are interested in the maximum saccharification enzyme activity. You >may not be. I always thought that ATC pH meters compensate for the liquid temperature and output a measurement for the same liquid at room temperature (or whatever the standard is - 68 degrees F?). If that isn't the case, then what is the temperature compensation compensating for? For a brewer like myself who uses the nice ColorpHast pH papers, what should my mash pH be when I measure it at room temperature? I always figured 5.3-5.4, if only because the St. Pats site specifies this underneath their pH meter section (and kudos to St. Pats for listing the temperatures along with their pH recommendations - no "H E double hockey sticks" for you!). Lots of books never refer to temperature in relation to pH, though I have always assumed that they were talking about room temperature. Dan in Minnetonka Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 16:34:00 -0400 From: Bill.X.Wible at QuestDiagnostics.com Subject: re: oh the horror! >Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 10:09:55 -0700 (MST) >From: Jim Liddil <jliddil at VMS.ARIZONA.EDU> >Subject: oh the horror! > >The papazian article in the new zymurgy strikes me as a direct take off on >conrads "heart of darkness" with ass eating fish and ball cutting grass >thrown in for good measure. I'd rather watch apocolypse now. Oh I get it >Hunter Thompson. :-) > >Jim Liddil >North Haven, CT I had no idea what you were talking about until my Zymurgy arrived last night. It was a pretty frightening article. More frightening, though, was the condition of this magazine. What happened to this issue? The pages all look like bad black and white copies, the pictures are all too dark and have no detail. In terms of print quality, this has to be the worst I've ever seen. I thought Ray Daniels was supposed to be making things better. On the plus side, though, every article I read was good. I especially enjoyed the Summer Heat article. The material itself seems fine, its only the print quality that is lacking. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 07:27:49 -0400 From: Lonzo McLaughlin <lonkelm at dol.net> Subject: All-Gran Perry Merts wrote: Will switching to all-grain significantly improve the taste of my beer? I'm not going to start a big discussion here, but rather share my experience. I extract brewed for 5 years and just recently switched to all-grain. I build a RIMS system since I like to tinker with equipment. I've now brewed a total of 5 batches on the new system. The quality of my beer has significantly improved. The beer tastes much fresher and cleaner then the beers I brewed with extract. You may or may not save money, but the beer quality goes up for sure. However, on the downside your personal time investment in brewing a batch of all-grain will be much greater. This is the only part I dislike. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1904 00:56:56 +0000 From: "A. J." <ajdel at mindspring.com> Subject: Water Steve Wood asks about what his water report means. First, it means that you have a supplier who gives out the kind of report I wish they all would in terms of the data on each item but who has little regard for brewers in terms of the items reported upon. I'm not sure if an explanation of what the column headings mean is part of the request but it can't hurt to review those before launching into what the water is like. The "mean" is the average of all the readings of which the number for a particular parameter is in the "count" column. Thus this hardness report is based on 30 measurements. The sum of the measurements divided by 30 i.e. 102 is the mean. The median is the value above which the lowest half (15) of the readings fall and above which the highest half are found. The "standard deviation" is found by subtracting the mean from each reading, squaring the result, summing the squares, dividing the sum by the count or the count minus 1 (depending on whether the "sample standard deviation" or an "unbiased estimate of the population standard deviation" is sought) and taking the square root of the quotient. It is a measure of the dispersion of the group of readings about its average value. The "coefficient of variation" is the standard deviation expressed as a fraction of the mean (15.5/102 = 15.2%). About 60% of samples from a population will be found within one standard deviation of the mean (86.5 - 117.5 in the case of hardness here). About 94% (these percentages are not exactly right - I'm working from memory, or what's left of it) are found within 2 standard deviations (71 -133 for hardness) and 99% within 3 standard deviations of the mean. The minimum and maximum values are self explanatory. Now on to the items given. Hardness is a measure of the calcium plus magnesium in the water. Water at this level of hardness is typical of east coast surface or well water. This water is not particularly hard. Ideally, a brewer wants to know the separate values for magnesium hardness and calcium hardness. Hardness is usually expressed in units of "ppm as calcium carbonate". Divide the value so expressed by 50 to obtain the number of milliequivalents of hardness per liter. This value is often compared to the meq/L of alkalinity in order to determine "residual alkalinity" which is a predictor of mash pH for pale malt grists. This report does not give data for alkalinty so this is moot here. If calcium hardness is given separately and converted to meq/L, multiplication by 20 gives the mg/L of calcium in the water. Similarly for magnesium hardness one converts to meq/L and then multiplies by 12.15 to get mg/L. TDS is a measure of the "total dissolved solids". If this is measured by evaporation of the sample and weighing of the residue it's a meaningful number. More usually it's mesured by multiplying the electrical conductivity of the water (much easier to measure than the residue weight) by a constant and, unless that constant is correct for the relative proportion of ions in the solution, the number can be substantially in error. As such the number is useful mostly for realtive comparisons. No simple brewing calculations consider it. The sodium numbers represent the number of mg of this ion in a liter of the water. Sodium is pretty much a "don't care" ion except when present in quantity larger than in this water. Excess sodium, of course, can make the water, and a beer brewed from it, taste salty. pH: much is made of this parameter but by itself it doesn't really tell you much about the water. Water's with pH's of 7 and up tend to be from surface sources which are in equilibrium with CO2 in the air or have had the pH tweaked up by the water works in order to prevent corrosion of the distribution mains. Waters with pH less than 7 tend to be ground waters or waters which have had their pH's lowered in order to prevent scale formation in the distribution system. Chlorine is a measure of the equivalent amount of free chlorine in the water even though part or all of the chlorine in a sample drawn from your tap may be bound to ammonia in the form of chloramine. Full reports specify free and total chlorine with chloramine chlorine beeing the difference between the two. Chlorine is a no-no in beer and should be eliminated by heating/aeration (free only), activated charcoal/KDF filtering or treatment with metabisulfite (Campden tablets). The maximum level for this water is about a third of what a typical municipality does in the spring/summer with regard to chlorine. To make much of this report you need to know in addition to the data above: -Alkalinity: the buffering capacity of the water i.e. its ability to resist acidification by malt acids. The battle between water and malt buffering systems determines mash pH. -Sulfate level: this has a profound effect on the way hops are perceived and tells you which beers the water is best suited to brewing, whether sulfate should be supplemented with gypsum etc. -Chloride (the ion, not the gas as above): This lets you know whether you have the option of supplementing calcium with calcium chloride as opposed to calcium sulfate where you need to supplement calcium (high alkality, low calcium water) but don't want harsh, dry hops. Go back to your supplier and tell him you are a brewer and that you wan't values for the "significant seven": 1. pH, 2. Calcium Hardness, 3. Magnesium Hardness, 4. Alkalinityh, 5. Chloride, 6. Sulfate, 7. Chlorine (free and total). If the water is typical it will have 50 - 80 ppm alkalinity and 10 - 40 ppm sulfate and 5 -25 chloride (the higher any one of these is the lower the others must be). Return to table of contents
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