HOMEBREW Digest #3380 Tue 18 July 2000

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Re: can you overdo hop flavour? X-Hopping (Rod Prather)
  The Jethro Gump Report ("Rob Moline")
  Re: Helmets (John_E_Schnupp)
  Feeding Burley To The Sharks (Doc, what category is this?) ("Philip Yates")
  Dear William, ayinger yeast (Cat 6) ("Graham Sanders")
  status quo and acetone related helmetless deaths ("Dr. Pivo")
  Questions:Diluting high gravity beer, 24 Hr Delay (Rick Pauly)
  Utter Rudeness From Down Under (New Category) ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  Spirit of Belgium III (Anderson Andy W NSSC)
  RE: raspberry-wheat beer (Chris Cooper)
  Belgian Wit mashing schedule? ("John S Thompson")
  Wyeast 1272 (Am. Ale2) and recent brews ("Czerpak, Pete")
  Re: My First Batch (Details) ("patrick finerty jr.")
  re. The Rift ("Darryl Newbury")
  Re: Drinking Age ("Leland Heaton")
  Ommegang yeast (Frank Tutzauer)
  s. alexanders no sparge - cat. 1 ("Czerpak, Pete")
  Oh boy, I'm only a category 4/5 er! (Aaron Perry)
  True (Aaron Perry)
  Taylor & Bate Rubber Boot Brewing School (Jim Adwell)
  Not beer related: Trying to locate M. Engelhardt (Some Guy)
  Commemorative Mead created by Dr. Bill Pfeiffer (eric and SUSAN)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 21:47:58 -0300 From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net> Subject: Re: can you overdo hop flavour? X-Hopping Weelllll! I've been catching up on some HBD reading having been on the road for almost 9 weeks since early May. From San Francisco, to Cleveland to Florida to Los Angeles. I have a whole cache of unread HBDs in my Inbox. I haven't been to Oz but I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore, Toto! Graham Sanders said in HOMEBREW Digest #3376 >I am on my experimentation phase of my cycle at the moment. >It really pisses off SWMBO. "You make good beer" she >will blast, "why the hell do have to keep trying new >things out" (funny she never said that about our love life >when she was younger and more bearable - but thats another >story). Remember, good beer lasts a lot longer than sex and you usually get a lot more beer than sex, anyway. As you get older you don't lose interest in beer, you can always have more than one a night and beer never goes flat just when you want it the most. HEY! If more people were willing to experiment with beer there wouldn't be so many Bud drinkers. Heck! There wouldn't be ANY Bud drinkers. I always thought that the only reason people like Bud is because it's the beer they were drinking the first time they got laid and they never separated the two experiences! What is a SWMBO, anyway????? Graham, your experiment with a 60 gram FWH of Hallertauer assuming 4.50 alpha for a 60 minute boil would give you a whopping 42.5 IBU. Too much bitterness even for most seasoned hop heads. The problem isn't too much flavor and aroma, just too much bitterness. 42 IBU is quite a shocker. This Extreme Hopping (X-Hopping) subject interests me. I have read a bit on the FWH and the idea that it imparts flavor. Haven't tried it, haven't had time. The problem is that FWH also imparts bittering. It has always been my feeling that late hopping or dry hopping is the source of flavor and/or aroma in most classic beers. Here's my question. Can you over Dry Hop/Late hop a beer. For example, use no initial bittering hops and add 6 oz (170 grams) of 4.5 alpha Noble hops with 5 minutes remaining in the boil. This would theoretically set the IBU at about 20 for a 5 gallon brew while leaving much of the flavor and aroma intact. Another concept would be 1/4 oz (7g.) at 60 minutes and 4.5 oz. (127g) at 5 minutes for a similar 20 IBU. Beyond being obviously wasteful, would this impart an extreme flavor and extreme aroma to the beer without kicking the alpha acids into an unpalatable range? (6 oz at 60 minutes would supply an outrageously medicinal 120 IBU). Remembering also that although theoretically hopping at zero minutes imparts no bittering, this is in practice impossible because of the time it takes the boiling vessel to drain through a cooling system. One would have to consider this cooling lag when extreme hopping in this manner by decreasing the quantity to compensate for the BV drain time. Any Comments?????? -- Rod Prather Indianapolis, Indiana Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 00:36:26 -0500 From: "Rob Moline" <brewer at isunet.net> Subject: The Jethro Gump Report The Jethro Gump Report > From: "Hugh Hoover" <hugh.hoover at software.com> >Subject: 48 hour lag! >I normally use Windsor >by Danstar, but I had 6 packs of the Whitbread, so... > >I started the yeast as recommended, 2 sachets in about >200 mls of ~100F water for 14 minutes (couldn't wait >that last minute :) then I added 1Q of 1.040 canned >starter wort, set it on the stir plate and let it go at medium >speed (enough to stir, no major vortex). I let it sit & stir for >the duration of the brewing (about 5 hours to knockout). >>O2 added right after all the wort (11 gals) is in the (open) >fermentor. > >About 4 hours after pitching, I >thought< I saw slight signs >of fermentation... I went to bed. >Next day, no real signs of fermentation... a few bubbles now >and again... ok, don't panic... I let it sit... >That evening, still nothing - ok, panic! I added another pack >of the Whitbread directly - just sprinkled on the surface. >4 hours later, still nothing, so I really panic and toss in a >partially done starter from a culture - 100 mls with a >noticeable layer of yeast on the bottom. Next morning, >definite signs of fermentation, that evening, nice high kreusen. >48 hours. I'm really testing my sanitation this time... > >Ok, here's the kicker... This is the 3rd time I've tried this .yeast, with similar results... The first two times, the yeast >came from a completely different supplier (different parts >of the country even!). I'm beginning to suspect it's not me... > >So, back to the first question, is this just bad yeast? or >did I really do something wrong? I DO store it in the freezer. >(Clayton Cone question: is it good, bad, or indifferent to store >dry yeast in the freezer?) Hugh, I originally saw your question as simply a freezer/fridge debate...there's more than that here... I have in my brewpub days ..stored in a coldroom at 35F....homebrew days before that in the kitchen freezer...all with good results... Consulting with Dr. Cone over the past years, and with regard to his revival of the Admiral Byrd Antarctic dry yeasts has had me on the track of optimal storage being in the freezer....(if one can revive dry yeasts that don't meet optimal drying methods, some decades later, after an Antarctic freeze, why should I disagree?) And the answer is....freezing/refrigeration offer much the same benefit to the homebrewer/homebrew shop owner...extended shelf life.....over room temp storage.... Dry yeasts suffer loss of viability, at room temps, of approximately 20 percent per year....fridge storage lowers viability losses to approximately 4 percent per year....freezer storage will decrease that ..... Allowing yeasts stored in cold conditions to attemperate to room temps over an half hour...prior to rehydration/attemperation will be helpful.... But your problem goes deeper....and in your own words....here it is... >I started the yeast as recommended, 2 sachets in about >200 mls of ~100F water for 14 minutes (couldn't wait >that last minute :) then I added 1Q of 1.040 canned >starter wort, set it on the stir plate and let it go at medium >speed (enough to stir, no major vortex). > I let it sit & stir for >the duration of the brewing (about 5 hours to knockout). You should rehydrate, yes, but use a pint or so with 10 grams of yeast, and then attemperate with chilled wort of the same volume for 15 minutes...optimum..... BUT, using a stir plate over 5 hours, with ANY dry yeast defeats the intent of the yeast manufacturer....I always used my dry yeast within 30 minutes of chiller start.....then finished filling the fermentor, while I was cleaning up.... This is not to say that your method won't work...but it is not necessary.....obviously, in your case...it doesn't work...and negates the value of using dry yeast.... In our case, Lallemand builds into the yeast, prior to Fluid Bed Drying, optimal amounts of nutrients, like glycogen and trehalose, sufficient to rehydrate over 15/60...and to attemperate over 15/60.... ....spinning it in wort for 5 hours defeats our intent.....and does not provide you with your best fermentative effort....I assume that these Whitbread yeasts will behave in a similar manner... Indeed, our yeast is optimimised for pitching within 30-40 minutes of rehydration.... I think, without respect to storage/viability....(which may be an issue)..you are not giving your yeast your best effort.... And as for testing your sanitation, I agree....In more ways than one..... (Personally, bottom line, I would also question the viability of your yeast...storage/time?....perhaps even before you acquired it?) Jethro Gump Rob Moline Lallemand The Jethro Gump Report "The More I Know About Beer, The More I Realize I Need To Know More About Beer!" Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 23:02:48 -0700 From: John_E_Schnupp at amat.com Subject: Re: Helmets >Subject: Helmets WTF is this. A helmet thread on HBD. Guess I'll go on over to the Sportster list or Harley digest and see if they're discussing brewing. Next thing you know we'll discussing the synthetic v. dyno oils or if it's acceptable to plug tires. John Schnupp, N3CNL Dirty Laundry Homebrewery Georgia, VT 95 XLH 1200 Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 17:38:16 +1000 From: "Philip Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au> Subject: Feeding Burley To The Sharks (Doc, what category is this?) It is indeed true that I have on rare occasions posted in other than category 5. It is also true that I once aspired to being a Port Douglas Dive Boat Captain, I wanted to be of some use to the world. But as history relates, "Irvine Good Time Reef Tours" offered the job to a more callous individual and left me in Burradoo, drinking myself into oblivion and dreaming of what might have been. But tonight I am enraged about something else, and it's into the crocodile swamp I wade with Dave Burley held above my head. Don't want the crocs to get him cos I'm planning to deliver him to Port Douglas with a free ticket on the Doc's very next dive trip. Well that's probably a bit harsh. But here is my gripe : I've been riding motorbikes for over thirty years, and just quietly, I've been drinking beer for almost as long. A few things I have noted about wearing helmets : -You can't hear an effing thing!!! Which is bloody dangerous. -Those full face jobs very much restrict your vision. Which is also bloody dangerous. I will admit that long ago we on occasions would ride home from the pub at night seeing double vision. It was easier if you rode with one eye closed. I will admit that it was a problem stopping at the lights when intoxicated - we depended on the gyroscopic effect to keep us upright. But they were wild days indeed, and a long time ago. These days I am a far more responsible chap enjoying a few homebrews with feet firmly on the ground at home. As my highly respected posts would indicate! Dave, Save the lectures for your children or grandchildren. Or any other of your friends inclined to strain themselves through truck grilles or fly off cliffs. I don't recommend either activity, with or without a helmet. Perhaps also you would like to suggest to every push bike and skate board rider that they should wear full leathers and crash hat. I could argue a good many points in favour of the motorcycle. But I will have another homebrew instead. In Burradoo Dave, if the baron was not seen every morning at 6.00am riding home on his motorcycle wearing nothing but jocks and singlet - well they'd figure something had gone horribly wrong in the brewery. Cheers Phil Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 18:39:22 +1000 From: "Graham Sanders" <craftbrewer at cisnet.COM.AU> Subject: Dear William, ayinger yeast (Cat 6) G'day All Now Adam wasn't slow on the uptake >Thanks to Bill for providing plenty of laughs by lumping Graham in with the gentlemen from "South of the border". I could hear him choke from the other side of the continent.< Choke aint the word, Fair upchucked a weeks worth of drinking in one go. William Frazier has a lot to answer for. The shit I have coped it from those southerners. Fancy dear William putting a North Queenslander in the same camp as a cockroach. Insulted all Aussies in one breath. Now get your famous map out MATE, and shade this area, North of Sarina to Thursday Island, West to Mt Isa, No make that West to Broome. Your now a wanted man in these areas. If the salties, rampant green frogs, taipans or irrate locals don't get you first, SWMBO is on the warpath, and thats definitely not a pretty sight. Not even your appology will cut it, no matter how sorry you are. On the other hand, a carton of your wine, and a keg of your best was to arrive on my doorstep toot sweet, I might grant you a permit. Then the locals can take you their favourite swimming hole for a well earned swim. Reminds me, Dr Pivo and Phil are welcome, provided they pay the required carton fee as they pass my door. Just make sure William's on that dive trip will you. - --------- Now Phils drug induced hyper-active ayinger yeast went thru my hells like my mango lambic went thru me, and after two weeks fermenting it has now been put to bed into secondary. All said and done, it performed wonderfully and as good as any lager yeast I have got. Its now has to pass a proper North Queensland Triangular test, but thats at least another month away. At this stage, and this is early days yet, its well on the way to becoming my German light (coloured) stock standard yeast. But thats slurping the dregs out of the primary to make that statement. - --------- oh whats Cat 6 , well thats NTH QLD issues that piss me right off, eh William, make sure you bring your togs. Shout Graham Sanders Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 12:58:29 +0200 From: "Dr. Pivo" <dp at pivo.w.se> Subject: status quo and acetone related helmetless deaths Ahhh, how nice. Everything back where it should be. Dave Burley telling us how to legislate people's behaviour according to his personal anecdotes (psssst! Dave! Here's a hint.... the people who would like to make the selling and imbibing of alcoholic beverages illegal have exactly the same personally emotion loaded arguments, which I'm quite sure they feel as strongly about, and have plenty of personal examples to make you feel like a heel if you don't agree with them.) Ain't these yanks fun! Everything's either legal and you can get sued for it. or they make it illegal! And Steve fell right off his wobbily "one night stand" on the category one, three platform and fell face first in the "number two". > Acetone is pretty solid evidence of a clostridium infection. the taste and smell of acetone is no evidence of anything at all except it's own existance.... except in Steve's didactic world.... this is even better... > The same carbo utilizing > clostridium that produce these by-products may produce butyric acid, Does he perchance thinks it's Clostridia perifringens? in a beer culture?!? No wait... I get it. Steve's just trying to wind his way back to his favourite Clostridia of all.... IT'S THE BOTULISM THREAD!!! I don't think Steve had finished saying all he had to say on that subject. Pat, certainly you could see your way to donating a few gigabytes for Steve to wax on the issue? It could be pretty entertaining to see if his microbiology knowledge is on a par with his Illinois legislature and geography. > This beer needs to be dumped not repaired. Heroic efforts to resuscitate > a seriously infected beer are wasted. Ah yes. The attitude that has kept Steve from learning how to make beer, and encouraging others not to do it as well, and keeps him just talking about it: "I think it must be so, therefore there is no point in continuing." Any wahoo, the resultant 'spurment was tasty, and I suspect as one sharp witted private poster suggested when having a similar problem with a stuck mead, that this particularly foul flavour, was a metabolary intermediate that was able to be further metabolised later down the track with the same culture in another condition, and SUBMITTED to other conditions.(but I'd hate to continue in that vain... getting a little "two-ish". More importantly it worked, and might be a handy trick for others to try if a similar problem crops up) Anyway, thanks to all the other "fourish" private posters who have reported similar things in everything from sourdough cultures to mead. The bad news is that Steve says we are all harbouring anaerobic cultures that have brought us such delightful things as lock-jaw (tetanus), gangrene, botulism, and "hospital diarrea" (difficile), and we will all soon be dead.... in fact, I'm not feeling so well myself...... Aaaaaaaargggghh.... sputter...... uuuuurrr.. D...r... ....... P... thump. "ouch!" (damn. shoulda' had my helmet on when sitting at this keyboard and drinking infected beer... there oughta' be a law.) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 07:10:37 -0400 From: Rick Pauly <flp2m at unix.mail.virginia.edu> Subject: Questions:Diluting high gravity beer, 24 Hr Delay I am trying to squeeze more beer from each brewing session and this weekend I brewed eleven gallons of 1.072 pilsner that I plan to dilute to 15 gallons when I keg it. I plan to use filtered,boiled and cooled water but are there any other things I should take into consideration, like pH? Also, since I have started using a counter flow chiller I have run into the problem this summer of having 75F tap water which only gets my wort down to 83F. I don't want to pre-chill the tap water with ice so I'm thinking of just filling the fermenter and letting it sit in the fridge overnight and pitching the yeast the next day. Any thoughts? Thanks Rick Pauly Charlottesville,VA Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 22:17:36 +1000 From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au> Subject: Utter Rudeness From Down Under (New Category) Dr Stephen Alexander, Chief of Category Two Posts, writes in typical patronising fashion : >who says 'low beer content' posts are just for Aussies ? > -S I don't think anyone did Steve. Maybe just a few souls who read the HBD enjoy a little more from our hobby than recitations of scientific brewing publications. You should not feel threatened by this Steve. You are the undisputed king of "Category Two" But, like Steve Lacey, perhaps from time to time you should take a Bex, and have a good lie down. Cheers Phil Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 08:53:55 -0400 From: Anderson Andy W NSSC <AndersonRW at NAVSEA.NAVY.MIL> Subject: Spirit of Belgium III Greetings, This is an advance notice of an upcoming homebrew contest. In January 13-14 of 2001 (the MLK holiday weekend), BURP (Brewers United for Real Potables) will be hosting the 3rd Spirit of Belgium. This will be a two-day event celebrating the best of Belgian beer and cuisine. The whole event will encompass a conference with Michael Jackson as the keynote speaker, multiple Belgian beer tastings, a banquet, and a homebrew contest. BURP previously hosted a Spirit of Belgium in both 1994 and 1996. Some of the material presented in those conferences ended up in both Brewing Techniques and Zymurgy. We believe that this conference will be just as informative. Please check our web page at www.burp.org to learn more. However, I am not writing at this early time just to advertise the Spirit of Belgium. Rather, I am giving brewers advance notice so that they can start brewing their award winning Belgian ales. The caliber of judges for the homebrew contest should be the highest possible, so here is your chance to both compete against the best brewers of Belgian ales as well as receive feedback from some of the best judges around the country. Anyway, that's enough of my rambling for now. The main reason I wrote today was to get brewers started on their brewing. Hopefully, I've whetted your appetite. If there are any questions concerning the homebrew contest portion of this festival, please let me know. As for the entire Spirit of Belgium, in the months to come you will hear more about the whole festival. So for now, get those brewpots boiling J Prost, Andy Anderson 2001 Spirit of Belgium Homebrew Contest Organizer Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 09:58:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Cooper <ccooper at a2607cc.msr.hp.com> Subject: RE: raspberry-wheat beer Mikela asks about making a raspberry wheat brew. I have experimented with this on several occasions with the following thoughts. If you are going to use fresh raspberrys I would suggest putting them into the secondary ferment. Another suggestion is to first freeze the fruit to help break down the pulp. Adding fruit to the secondary also allows the yeast to get a great headstart on anything wild in the fruit. DON'T PUT THEM IN THE BOIL, you will set the pectin in the fruit and your beer will be VERY cloudy, also any raspberry flavor will be boiled off! Even putting fresh fruit in the primary tends to diminish the flavor and definitely the aroma contribution (especially if the the primary ferment is very active). In the case of raspberry I have found that using a prepared extract (such as Carlson's Raspberry Flavor) added at bottling time gives the most predictable and controllable results. I have standardized on using the extract in my perennial "Steamin Raspberry Wheat" (a pale ale, with 20% torrified wheat fermented with Calif. Common, "Chico", yeast). I save the fresh fruit from my backyard raspberry vines for mead making. Chris Cooper, Pine Haven Brewing (aka. Debbi's Kitchen) Commerce, Michigan Member, Ann Arbor Brewer's Guild (Approximately 25 miles from 0.0 Renerian) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 08:46:31 -0500 From: "John S Thompson" <jthomp6 at lsu.edu> Subject: Belgian Wit mashing schedule? I recently brewed a Wit with the following recipe and mashing schedule... 6 gallons: 5.0 lbs. wheat malt 5.0 lbs. pils malt 0.5 lb. flaked oats 40 min. at 122F (protein rest) 90 min. at 152F (sac. rest) 45 min. at 170F (mashout and sparge) This is a much more liberal mashing schedule than my normal one. And yet, I got pretty disappointing efficiency. I usually have no problem getting 75% and this time I got closer to 65%. Any suggestions on a better mashing schedule? Thanks. John Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 11:12:15 -0400 From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com> Subject: Wyeast 1272 (Am. Ale2) and recent brews HI everyone: Just wanted to relay my experience with Wyeast 1272 American Ale 2 yeast. Lets just say that its a vigorous fermentor. I used it on a 5 gallon IPA (1.062 and 62IBU via Tinseth) and pitched it after I think a 3x scale up from smackpack. The following morning (pitched at 11PM) it had a nice 1" foam head in the 6.5 gal fermentor. By the time I came home from work the airlock was full. I installed a nice 1" blowoff and left it alone for a few days. 3 days later, the head seemed to have died down so I gave it a little shake and removed hose and replaced with airlock. Wake up next morning to find airlock again full so I replace with hose again for 3 days. It seems to have died down again so I'll hopefully be racking in a day or 2 to secondary. Lessons learned: 1272 seems to be a good top-cropping neutral yeast. very firm head on the fermentor the whole time. this is my first time using this yeast so hopefully I'll enjoy the taste. I will be measuring FG on racking so will have another data point in a day or two. It was fermented in 64-66degF range also. On other news, I have a nice Belgian triple 1.096 OG that is happily bubbling like mad with Wyeast 1214 that was quadrupple scaled up since I didn't want to brew a batch of Belgian pale ahead of time. Hope it will finished up low enough. Grain bill was 19 lb DWC pils grain, 1 lb belgian aromatic, 1 lb light candi sugar.Extraction looks a bit low since I batch spage and don't draw alot of second runnings into the boil kettle. My first time brewing an all-grain belgian and my first belgian in maybe a year. drank a nice delirium tremens and a Dolce somethingorother from the belgian brewery in eastern canada while I was brewing this. They were very nice and I hope my Tripple can compare. Might try the Belgian Wit yeast next time though as I hear that its better profilewise for a tripple. Thats about it. Ohh yeah, I have a 3 week old imperial stout in secondary that was fermented with 1056 from 1.078 down to about 1.020. Looking good so far and tasting pretty nice at racking. Another week and it'll be in the keg for some time with the old dry hops. Its been a good big beer year so far - 2 barley wines in late January, the above imperial, the above belgian, a wee heavy planned for SEptember and maybe another barley wine or 2 for this fall as well. Yeah baby!!! Regards, Pete czerpak albany, ny Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 11:23:02 -0400 (EDT) From: "patrick finerty jr." <zinc at finerty.net> Subject: Re: My First Batch (Details) hi folks, Leland writes about his brew and suggests the high T might have been a problem. i don't know where you live but i suggest trying to make use of evaporative cooling to keep the wort/beer at a lower temperature. before i started doing this many of my brews had a similar, fruity type flavor that wasn't something i really liked. i'm fairly sure it was a combination of the type of yeast i used and fermentation temps in the mid to low 70s. to keep the beer cool, just get the following items: 1) a fan 2) a shallow plastic storage container (the under the bed type works well) 3) a towel put the carboy/bucket in the container. get the towel soaking wet and wrap it around the carboy. aim the fan at the carboy. the container keeps the water from trashing your carpet/floor and acts a resevoir for water with the towel acting as a wick so anything that holds water will do. i can drop the temp of my beer at least 10 deg F this way. that's pretty good considering the high humidity here in Toronto (well, it's not *that* bad, but i used to live in the desert). -patrick in Toronto - -- "There is only one aim in life and that is to live it." Karl Shapiro,(1959) from an essay on Henry Miller's Tropic of Cancer finger pfinerty at nyx10.nyx.net for PGP key http://www.finerty.net/pjf Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 13:18:02 -0500 From: "Darryl Newbury" <darryl at sagedesign.com> Subject: re. The Rift I have to concur with Bob Boland's comment that there is absolutely no rift between us Canucks and the St Louis Brews. To the best of my foggy memory everything about the trip to St Louis was thoroughly enjoyed by all of the Canadians who attended. The conference was great, Bob recommended a fabulous restaurant called Ciseros to us, and one of the Brews generously made sure we got to the airport on time so we could return home safely. For those who missed that thread a few months back, John Sullivan of St Louis misconstrued a tougue and cheek comment by a Canadian brewer (who didnt attend MCAB) regarding the prestige of different conferences. After a clarification, John quickly apologized - that's about all there is to it. The only bad blood that we have with anyone in St Louis is one unscrupulous taxi driver (but thats another story). The only other possible complaint I might have is that pint glasses down there sure are small. Sorry to throw water on your fire Brian, you'll have to look elsewhere for your Brew Wars. Cheers Darryl Toronto, Ontario (where a pint equals 20 fluid ounces) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 10:13:10 PDT From: "Leland Heaton" <rlheaton at hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Drinking Age Ok...I am new to hbd. I am new to brewing. I am actually new to being 21. (June 26, that is why I started brewing). I too used to think that if I had to register for the draft, why couldn't I drink. In Europe, (I believe) the drinking age is 18. But if you get caught drunk driving, goodbye life (Anyone can correct me if I am wrong). I was drinking one night with my roomate's girlfriend while he was at work. He gave his girlfriend a kiss took A **SIP** of beer, and decided he was hungry. Living in the dorms, and being 12:30am limited our options. So we went to the local Thousand Oaks Jack in the Box (high school hangout). It just happened to be a holiday (I don't remember which one). As we pulled into the parking lot, we saw the infamous red and blue behind us. One of his liscence plate lights was out. The police, smelled alcohol (from me and my roomates girlfriend). Sobriety check time. We were then given an option by the police. They realized that we were responsible, not doing anything wrong (they were trying to get the drunken highschoolers) so our options were as follows. 1) Go to jail or 2) Be given a ride home by the police. Thought about it for a 1/2 second and decided to take the ride home. We got in the back of the cop car (I still thought it was a trick to get us in the car), and the officer asked if we still wanted to go get food. I didn't want to push our luck (I was thankful for the ride home) but the officer bought our late night snack for us. Then took us crusing around town in a police car. He then convinced me to do a ridealong (I have done two now, one of which we were first on the scence at the only stabbing in T.O. that year). But I was mad. Why couldn't we drink. I discovered this recently. Some kids are not able to handle alcohol. The law is to prevent this minors from receive readily available alcohol. It was not hard for me to drink under 21, so anyone who wants to drink can, but be aware of the consequences. I support the alcohol laws, but I don't blame the kids. I was raised by my parents to respect alcohol (that is my interest in brewing). So I blame all other parents for not teaching their kids about alcohol. My dad was an alcoholic until my mother divorced him when I was 9. I love my dad and spend every second I can with him. He was the one who taught me respect. When respect is achieved, then the laws can be lifted (in my opinion). I am sorry to rant, but it is something I feel strongly about. R. Leland Heaton JR. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 13:48:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Frank Tutzauer <comfrank at acsu.buffalo.edu> Subject: Ommegang yeast I used this yeast in a Saison from Clonebrews last summer. Just grew it up from a bottle of Hennipen. Fermented fine in the mid 70s. I got a little banana in the nose, but not much. It did take longer to finish than I expected (three weeks instead of my usual two). The beer was good, and the starter was absolutely the best tasting starter I've ever tasted! frank Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 14:23:41 -0400 From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com> Subject: s. alexanders no sparge - cat. 1 This is a response to S. Alexanders notes on no sparge vs sparge. Unfortunately, I do not really either but instead run my batch sparge fairly short. For example my procedure to make 5 gallons of 1.065 ale: use about 5 gallons 172F water, mash in about 14-15 lbs grain, temp settled about 152-156F, mash for 90 minutes (no stirring, I'm lazy), drain first runnings to get about 3-3.5 gallons of first runnings, gravity in range of 1.085-1.095. add 2 gallons 172-174degF water and stir and set bed for 15-20minutes. drain second runnings and combine to yield about 5-5.25 gallons total. bring to boil for about 60 minutes adding hops as appropriate and immersion chill and make up to 5 final gallons. Steve notes that sparge beers have better and often "much" better head. I would agree only such that my beers for the most part have a not very long lasting head. and they are carbonated right via keg and door mount tap system. i have never run a traditional continuouus sparge though so am only offering head comparison to commercial tap brewpubs beers like DePiros at the Pumpstation in Albany. even the heads on my irish stouts (using 1.5 lb flaked barley in a 15 lb batch) and some of my IPAs containing a bit of wheat seem to have not long lasting heads. Steve also notes that sparge beers clear faster and are better in final clarity. I have gotten some contest remarks that my short batch sparge pale ales like my IPAs are a bit on the cloudy side (maybe chill haze.... maybe a product of non-continuous sparge). Doesn't seem to hurt too much as they still garner some ribbons but the haze was something I haven't targetted as fixable yet. As all my brews are short batch sparged, I can't comment on which keg empties first other than to say that I always seem to be running out of beer. Anyways, hope this info is helpful to someone contemplating giving batch sparge, or short sparging, or no-sparging a thought. I plan on continuing in my current method as it minimizes amount of equipment that I need and it has worked pretty well so far. using my fairly new 10 gallon Gott (maybe 5 batches old) rather than the oven and 5 gallon mash pot is nice though. I just don't want to buy another vessel or have to store another one for a sparge tank since I currently use an old 4 gallon stainless pot for sparge H2O heating. Comments on my or Steves experiences?? Pete czerpak albany, NY Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 20:12:32 -0400 From: Aaron Perry <vspbcb at earthlink.net> Subject: Oh boy, I'm only a category 4/5 er! -S Writes about what I wrote: >>Aaron Perry says >> Dr. Pivo writes about acetone in his brew, and the removal of it by >> "krausen lagering". Pretty slick. >This is about as "slick" as the Food Lion remixing rancid ground >beef with fresh to "remove" the off flavors. Such a small amount of beer added......I figured there was some scavenging going on.. >Acetone is pretty solid evidence of a clostridium infection. The next >product on this trail of tears is isopropanol. The same carbo utilizing >clostridium that produce these by-products may produce butyric acid, >butanol, and acetic acid depending on conditions. None very >dangerous to consume in v.small quantities, nor any more welcome >in beer than Jim Liddil's autoclaved fecal matter. Sometimes I wish I had paid attention in Biology and Chemistry!! Here I thought the Doc was on a break through!! Acetone scavenging yeast!! Then Steve has to tell us that what we have is light beer instead:> "carbo >utilizing clostridium....." Less carbos = light beer...right?!;-) . So the Doc is a Genius after all! He's invented a new method of light beer production!! At worst it's on par with cooked poop which is what most light beers seem to be about any how... Hail Pivo!! Strong work! AP Ps. This is meant mostly as a category 5. No offence to -S, he has helped me out more times than he knows! Happy brewing to all (even those in Canada!) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 20:24:11 -0400 From: Aaron Perry <vspbcb at earthlink.net> Subject: True -S also says: >So Ted Kennedy & Steve Forbes are your forces for correcting >irrational governance ? When does the next inner tube leave >for Cuba ? Lest's Just say I'm a MA resident..err, ahhh Also:beer , brewing, mash etc.... AP Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 21:16:05 -0400 From: Jim Adwell <jimala at apical.com> Subject: Taylor & Bate Rubber Boot Brewing School Taylor & Bate brewery in St. Catharines, Ontario, in the Niagara Falls area, is offering the Rubber Boot Brewing School in October, 2000. This is a 2 1/2 day intensive brewing course, 2 dinners, 2 lunches, 2 breakfasts, with beer, of course. The cost is $395 Canadian, and includes all meals and most refreshments, rubber boots and overalls, and "a whole lot of fun". They have also reserved a block of rooms at the local Ramada Parkway Inn for $79 a room per night for those interested. The course is for "homebrewers wanting to better understand and perfect the process", among others. I have no affliation with Taylor & Bate. They make a fine beer, though, and have won several awards, or so I'm told. I visited the brewery last week, and got a chance to talk to the head brewer, and the owner, Tim Taylor, and sampled their Niagara Spray lager (great beer!). BTW, $1 Canadian is about 60 cents US right now, making this an even better deal for those in the US. You can contact Taylor & Bate at: 75 St. Paul Street St Catharines, Ontario L2R 3M3 905-682-0268 brewery at vaxxine.com www.taylorandbatebrewery.com Don't contact me, 'cause I don't know anything else than what's here. :) Cheers, Jim Jim's Brewery Pages: http://home.ptd.net/~jimala/brewery/ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 21:44:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Some Guy <pbabcock at hbd.org> Subject: Not beer related: Trying to locate M. Engelhardt Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... I'm trying to locate Manfred (Fred) Engelhardt who, at least at one time, was a home brewer. He was last known to reside in California, but lived as a youth on Cabot in Canton, MI. If you know him, could you please have him contact me at pbabcock at hbd.org. If he asks "why", tell him Mickey Long needs to get in touch with him. Thanks... - -- - See ya! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at hbd.com Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org HBD Web Site http://hbd.org The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock "The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged from my yeast lab Saturday Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 22:26:45 -0500 From: eric and SUSAN <erica at isunet.net> Subject: Commemorative Mead created by Dr. Bill Pfeiffer At a recent Ames' Brewers' League meeting I had the opportunity to sample a small amount of the Commemorative Mead served at the 2000 AHA National Homebrewers Convention created by Dr. Bill Pfeiffer. I must say that I was not prepared for, nor did I correctly anticipate, what was set before me. As I consumed the most astonishing drink I had ever tasted I was told a saddening story of how this mead came into existence. I would just like to comment on the mead and Dr. Pfeiffer's great achievment. As a recent newlywed my wife and I were given a small bottle of commecially produced mead as a sort of traditional wedding gift. We had never before tasted mead and we were both looking forward to tasting this honey brew which came so highly recommended by my homebrewering friends. When we opened the bottle our experience was, well, less than expected and down right terrible. The mead had the flavor of old socks. It was all I could do to finish a small glass. Susan took one taste and gave up. We were both dumbfounded and confused as to the hype and regard for such a concoction. Needless to say, I vowed never to drink mead again and gave up every thought of creating my own. When it comes to beer and wine I am pretty open minded so at the club meeting I decide to join my fellow brewers in tasting the commemorative drink and toasting Bill Pfeiffer. After tasting the mead, I was shocked and elated by what I had consumed. As a new brewer I can not correctly describe what I tasted, but I can say that this drink was without a doubt one of the finest beverages to ever cross my palate. What made this mead so much better than the previous mead? How was it made? Could I reproduce the results, if even partially? Who was the fellow who made this? Was there any more? I did some reseach on the web and in past Zymurgy magazines to learn more about Bill and his exceptional talent for brewing. I learned of Dr. Pfeiffer's accomplishments, his stewardship and his great following of friends. While I never knew Dr. Pfeiffer, he has inspired me to follow in his footsteps. I wanted to find the recipe for his commemorative mead, but I have since decided to let that small sample be my introduction to Dr. Pfeiffer. I am now planning on fermenting my own version of a cherry mead and only hope that it will turn out half as good. Thanks, Bill, for sharing your talents and allowing me to taste the Nectar of the Gods. Eric Armstrong Ames, Iowa Return to table of contents
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