HOMEBREW Digest #3409 Tue 22 August 2000

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Outtage... (Some Guy)
  re: Kit Beers (Bill Wible)
  re: I'm no expurt...but.. (Bill Wible)
  Steve Lacey And His "Pts per Pound" ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  Siphoning ("Randy Pressley")
  Brussels (Keith Busby)
  FWH/mash hopping ("Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies")
  First Wort Hopping is for Sisses eh? (Chad Petersen)
  Bad homebrews ruining the reputation (John Adsit)
  aerating wort vs. beer ("Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies")
  Whirlpools, aeration & freezing yeast ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  Charlie P's books ("Mark Tumarkin")
  Cost of beer (Ken Miller)
  re: Why aerate? (Lou.Heavner)
  mash hopping clarification (Marc Sedam)
  Kit beers and Mashing ("Dave Edwards")
  one more thing (Marc Sedam)
  lucky charms and decoction (Aaron Perry)
  29mm crown caps found (Ed Easgall)
  29mm crown caps correction (Ed Easgall)
  24 Hours of Belgian Special Beer (Fred Waltman)
  On Perceptions and Other Such Stuff (Bob Hall)
  Lemon (Crossno)
  Papazian (George Edwards)
  Thanks a Bunch! (Smith Asylum)
  RE: Boulder (Brian Rezac)
  St Pats Bashing... ("dr smith")
  chloramines, Charlie P, (Dave Burley)
  FWH ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  Re: "Vegemite" (Yuck!) ("Warren White")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 23:07:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Some Guy <pbabcock at hbd.org> Subject: Outtage... Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... Our apologies for the server outtage Sunday night and Monday morning. Routine maintenance wasn't so routine, and O&E's intervention was required to bring the server back online. Since the HBD is not their source of profits, we must make do with what time they can give us and when. I, for one, appreciate their efforts. On another note, Greg Day, our benefactor at O&E for so long, has moved to another position with another newspaper. I wish him the best of luck. And I applaud O&E for upholding the agreements he had made with the HBD and other hobbiest' servers hosted on their network. Bravo! - -- - See ya! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at hbd.org Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org HBD Web Site http://hbd.org The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock "The monster's back, isn't it?" - Kim Babcock after I emerged from my yeast lab Saturday Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 09:18:06 -0400 From: Bill Wible <bwible at pond.com> Subject: re: Kit Beers >Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 17:06:38 +0800 >From: Edward Doernberg <shevedd at q-net.net.au> >Subject: Kit beers <snip> >And as much as I hate to say it the beer these kits make is not bad. To the >extent that I preferred my first kit beer to some of the mid priced >commercial beers. >I have herd of only one person that had a disaster home brewing and didn't >try it again and they had such a bad case of bottle bombs I don't think they >even tasted it (I suspect something as simple as premature bottling). >Kit beers are far from perfect but they aren't all that bad. >Edward Edward, I assume you're talking about the pre-packaged, pre-hopped kits that are supposed to make a particular style of beer, such as an old ale kit or an English Bitter kit. I did several of these, and I'd say all were pretty bad. This is funny to me that this is posted just now. I was just going through notes from my old batches yesterday, and I ran across one note that made me laugh. It said in big letters, under "What I would do differently next time", "Stop F***ing around with kits." The problems I have had with these kits have been that they are pre-hopped, and none of them give you any idea how much hop they contain. I always wanted to at least add flavor and aroma hops to the kit , and it usually ended up being too much. There was another thread recently about how much easier it is to build up your own 'kits' using plain, unhopped, DME, LME, (or a combination) and your own hops. This gives you total control. When I want to turn around a quick extract beer for some party or something, this is what I do. But I became an all grain brewer around my 5th or 6th batch, and the vast majority of my beers are done all grain. I still do an occasional extract, usually for convenience, but they are few and far between. So why mess with kits that somebody else made without having all the information, when you can make your own and have it be exactly what you want? Cheers! Bill Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 09:33:28 -0400 From: Bill Wible <bwible at pond.com> Subject: re: I'm no expurt...but.. >Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 09:45:34 -0400 >From: Aaron Perry <vspbcb at earthlink.net> >Subject: I'm no expurt...but..ppp/g <snip> >disclaimer: I'm no expurt, but this method allows me to nail my target gravity >every time! The only reason I have to know this is 'cause Promash won't make a >MAC version!! They say use the virtual PC program, but my mac is too old!! Oh >well, pen and paper for now! Time to move up to the G4, Aaron! My power mac runs Windows 3.1, Windows 95, and, of course, the MacOS. I can run BrewWizard and ProMash, even though neither is a mac program. There is one mac brewing program called BrewMeister, but I don't like it. It does not allow you to customize setting, and it always calcualted my gravity wrong. Actually, running Widows on a Mac is kind of like putting hubcaps on a jeep, though. But I'll do it until these programs do come out for the mac - which will probably be when they're playing ice hockey on the river Styx. Bill Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 23:25:20 +1000 From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au> Subject: Steve Lacey And His "Pts per Pound" Steve Lacey, taking his mind off the Olympics for a minute whilst refusing to admit he was at the last gay Mardi Gras (I'm sure I saw you there Steve, in the float right behind mine!), has at least explained his question. One poor soul emailed me to explain that "pts" meant pints and went on to tell me how many ounces there were in a pound. Something I learnt forty years ago, long before Australia went metric. But I am sure his advise was well intended. To answer Steve's query, I use points per kilo per litre, a standard I learnt from Graham Wheeler's book "Home Brewing". Graham's book offers some good info on such matters including IBU calculations and as a result of his information, I have never felt remotely inclined to bother with Promash. Some of you might be interested to know, Graham some years back actually posted here in the HBD but found the aggressive reception from some quite upsetting. He told me this personally. So we lost a good information source thanks to some of the "know it all's" that like to show off their often useless scientific calibre here in the HBD. Points per kilo per litre, or degrees per kilo per litre as expressed in mash efficiency are measured against laboratory results (deemed as 100% efficient). For example, Graham's book gives lager malt a maximum extraction of 296. This means, under laboratory conditions one kilo of malt mashed in one litre of water will achieve a SG of 1296 degrees. So what? Well this figure can be used to figure out your own mashing efficiency. Say you have produced 22 litres of wort with a SG of 1050 using 4.6 kg of malt (this is about where my brewing lies). You can say good bye to the 1000 part of your gravity reading as it is a constant. So we are dealing with what is left, which is 50 points. Multiplied by 22 reveals the gravity of one litre of your wort. Divided by the kilos of grain used reveals your "points per kilo per litre" In this example, 50 times 22 equals 1100. Divided by 4.6 equals 239. 239 divided by 296 (maximum possible) times 100 equals your mash efficiency. It's really very straight forward. Graham's book gives potential or 100% mash points for a whole range of fermentables, including rice, which of course interests me. Not that I bother much with the calculations any more, like Doc Pivo, these days I hardly even weigh the grain I use. Been there, done that, now I do it purely from experience and feel. I usually fall within two points of my expected gravity, because I know my mash efficiency, at least for the grains I mostly use. As a result of this discussion, Dave Lamotte asks "why are aircraft not built like flight recorders, or black boxes as they are known (God knows the relevance of this to the discussion!!) I guess Dave, if the aircraft was built like the black box, it would be so heavy it would never get airborne. What makes me laugh is when passengers come up the front and ask "how do we know you really care about our safety"? Simple boof head! We're in this aircraft too!! What's more, being at the pointy end, what ever we are going to hit usually gets us first. I have a healthy sense of self preservation. Despite disliking helmets! Cheers Phil Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 10:16:57 -0400 From: "Randy Pressley" <RANDYP at ci.winston-salem.nc.us> Subject: Siphoning I've been reading some posts on whether or not to siphon with the mouth. I'll bet the folks who suck on that siphon tube don't have fish tanks. I always fill the tube with at least 50% water then put my thumb on one end to keep the water from coming out either end and then stick the other end in the carboy. Works like a champ. By the way if you buy your tubing in a roll you've noticed that it's hard to keep straight because its been rolled up so long. I kill two birds with one stone. I put a funnel in one end of the tube and pour boiling water through the tube. This cleans it and straightens it at the same time. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 08:53:02 -0500 From: Keith Busby <kbusby at facstaff.wisc.edu> Subject: Brussels While in Brussels, I also recommend a visit to Beermania, 170 Chaussee de Wavre (Wavresesteenweg). It is a real trove of both beer and glasses. The owner is friendly and knowledgable. Cheeck out his website at http://www.beermania.be. I further endorse the recommendation of 't Spinnekopje. Keith Busby Professor of French University of Wisconsin-Madison Department of French and Italian 618 Van Hise Hall Madison, WI 53706 (608) 262-3941 (608) 265-3892 (fax) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 09:20:51 -0600 From: "Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies" <orders at paddockwood.com> Subject: FWH/mash hopping A point of clarification: Comparing FWH and Mash Hopping to an equivalent weight for start-of-boil addition: FWH will provide 10% MORE bitterness, but smoother. Mash Hopping (with pellets) will provide 90% LESS bitterness, and an aroma somewhat akin to dry hopping. Details at www.paddockwood.com/guide_hop_usage.html#FLAVOUR Use FWH to replace late additions, and mash hopping instead of dry hopping. As always, YMMV... these are our sensory evaluations, not lab analysis... ______________________________________________ Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies, Saskatoon, SK orders at paddockwood.com www.paddockwood.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 08:19:19 -0700 From: Chad Petersen <Chad.Petersen at wwu.edu> Subject: First Wort Hopping is for Sisses eh? Sedam! You have gone too far! FWH is the way it was meant to be. Calling proponents of FWH sissies is inappropriate as well as downright mean. I expect a retraction immediately if not sooner. Father Chad Defrocked Cleric Brewing Saveant Geek Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 09:22:47 -0600 From: John Adsit <jadsit at jeffco.k12.co.us> Subject: Bad homebrews ruining the reputation Several posts have talked about the fact that people have tasted some bad home brews made from kits and then written off all homebrewing because it produces bad beers. While this is no doubt true, the phenomenon is not restricted to kit brewers. I know an all grain brewer who always makes brews in the 10% ABV area, with nowhere near enough hops to balance, and who can't recognize an infected batch if it were crawling out of the bottle. He passes those around with great pride, turning off one potential brewer after another. But there is even another factor, and it relates to a point Doc Pivo made during the great drunkenness debate. About a year and a half ago, I attended a "pot luck" homebrew party that was set up for the express purpose of promoting home brewing. Since I am not an active member of any clubs, I attended not knowing many of the people there. I brought a Pilsner and an IPA. I have no doubt that, with one possible exception, my beers (even the IPA) were the least alcoholic in the place. (The exception was an India Black Ale that, according to the recipe its creator published in Zymurgy, should have been less alcoholic than my IPA. According to my informal observations, the only other contender as a "low alcohol brew" was a beer identified by its creator as a MILD with about 6.0% ABV. The other factor was hopping. Now, I tend to like beers a little hoppy. But, man! the IPA's there in abundance had hop characteristics that stunned me. Most of all, what stood out was the attitude of most of the people in the group. Everyone seemed to want to impress others by 1) how much alcohol they had created and 2) how many IBU's they had achieved. When they poured you a taste, they seemed eager to see your head snap back. My wife, who started me in home brewing by buying me my first kit, hated nearly every beer there, and she said she would never have bought me that gift had she attended this party first. Perhaps many of those people who tasted a home brew once and didn't like it had not tasted a kit beer; perhaps they have tasted one of those excessive brews Doc Pive so accurately described. BTW, this was not just a rogue group; I assure you the names of the creators of the specific beers I mentioned will be familiar to many of the readers of HBD. - -- John Adsit Boulder, Colorado jadsit at jeffco.k12.co.us Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 09:31:47 -0600 From: "Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies" <orders at paddockwood.com> Subject: aerating wort vs. beer Lee Smith asks about aeration: Here are some rules of thumb regarding wort/beer aeration. 1. It's undesirable to aerate hot wort, it oxidizes and develop off flavours. This is often referred to as HSA (Hot Side Aeration). 2. It's desirable to aerate cool (below 74F) wort as much as possible BEFORE fermentation. You can do this by bubbling in air, or oxygen, or by dropping the cool wort into your fermentor, or by drilling a small hole, or series of small holes around the edge of a rigid piece of tubing at the end of your siphon. The cool wort will suck air into it as it drops into the fermentor. Or you could shake the fermentor very well for 5 minutes before pitching the yeast. 3. It's undesirable to aerate wort that has begun fermentation- it doesn't help the yeast, and won't do good things for your beer. 4. It's undesirable to aerate finished beer, it oxidizes and develop off flavours. 5. Someone will disagree with all of the above. Hope this helps... Stephen ______________________________________________ Paddock Wood Brewing Supplies, Saskatoon, SK orders at paddockwood.com www.paddockwood.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 11:30:01 -0400 From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com> Subject: Whirlpools, aeration & freezing yeast Whirlpool hot wort / don't whirlpool hot wort? My personal opinion is that it is a non-issue for HSA. I've done both & haven't noticed any degradation of expected flavors. As discussed earlier, A-B pumps air into their hot wort with no apparent ill-effects since the temperature is believed to be to high for oxidation to occur. And I doubt anyone would tell you that aeration of cool wort is a bad thing. I can, however, see one method being more practical than another depending on the chilling method. For counterflow chillers, there is no choice but to whirlpool the hot wort. You could do it again on the cooled wort as well to remove cold break if you employ a settling tank. More equipment to clean. Immersion chilling has the advantage of being able to rack off the hot break as well as most of the cold break. Whirlpooling hot wort with an immersion chiller would be counterproductive as the hot break would be separated, but not the cold break. ============== Lee Smith asked if there is a hard and fast rule applying to aeration. Sure. 1. Air in cooled unfermented wort is good. 2. Air in hot wort or finished beer is bad. The much-debated exceptions: 1a. Additional aeration can be introduced for the first 24 hours of fermenting with no adverse effects on flavor. Haven't tried this yet. Best to leave well-enough alone. 2a. Aeration of hot wort is to be avoided within the following temperature range 1xx - 1yy deg. F where xx usually winds up being some number between 20 and 40 and yy can be some number between 60 and 80. Who knows? Show me the data. But be safe - avoid undue splashing and agitation between 100 F and 200 F, in general. ================= Jesse is thinking about storing his yeast in sterile water or buffer should he ever lose access to a -80 C freezer. I miss the lab! So many neat things I can't afford to have at home! <sob> I would suggest buffer. I've tried sterile water with mixed results. It may be the osmotic shock that does it. If you know of a good one, I'd love to try it. I was thinking of a phosphate buffer since it's more natural to beer and not too exotic for the layman to make. Carpe cerevisiae! Glen Pannicke http://www.pannicke.net "Even God is an Evolutionist." - me Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 12:39:10 -0400 From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com> Subject: Charlie P's books In reference to using Charlie P's books as a reference - Jay Spies wrote: Once again, Charlie's stellar advice falls prey to common sense. and Steve Alexander adds: Uhhh - read Papazian once, cut an inch off one of your kitchen table legs and place the book there to prevent future reference. Charlie catches a lot of flack about the outdated info in his books, rightly or wrongly. But don't destroy your furniture over them. I've found Charlie's books to be very useful out in my brewery - they are just the perfect thickness to put under your carboy to get the right tilt when siphoning. Mark Tumarkin Gainesville, FL Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 12:43:21 -0400 From: Ken Miller <kgmiller at vignette.com> Subject: Cost of beer In reading about the state of homebrewing in Australia and from what little I know of Canadian homebrewing, I'm starting to think there is a large difference in the price of beer between the US and other parts of the world. Here in northeastern US, I can get a case (24-12oz cans) of macro swill (Bud, Busch, Coors) for about $10-12(US). Something better would be Sam Adams/Harpoon in the $20/case range. My opinion is that for the "kit and kilo" brewer would be hard pressed to make beer for much less than 10$/case. Sure, he'd save a few bucks, but not enough for the trouble. I think this explains why there are no homebrew supplies in supermarkets and all of the homebrews I've met are doing it for fun and to try to make really good beer. Could a few brewers from outside the US give us an idea of what a case of Macro and Micro beer costs locally? This could give us an idea of the relative motivations of homebrewing in other countries. Whenever I am asked if I save money by homebrewing, my answer is that there no reasonable way to make a typical american lager for less than I could buy it, but I do save a bit when I make my SNPA clone. (That stuff goes for close to $30/case.) This then gives me a chance to explain that homebrewing is a hobby, and not a way to save a few bucks. This is my way to give the impression of homebrewers as hobbyist who love the taste of great beer and not drunks looking for a cheap buzz. Ken Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 12:21:34 -0500 From: Lou.Heavner at frco.com Subject: re: Why aerate? Here is my take on it. Oxygen and oxidizers are generally bad for beer flavor and stability. They react with both wort and beer constituents to create oxidation products which yield some of the undesirable flavors and aromas we all strive to avoid and a few we may actually want in certain styles. However, yeast, in addition to consuming the sugars in wort and producing alcohol and CO2, also act as reducing agents and O2 scavengers. In fact yeast use O2 to grow and reproduce. Now the neat thing is that yeast make a lot more than just EtOH and CO2. They also produce a lot of flavor active compounds. The exact compounds and quantities are dependant on the wort composition, the yeast strain, and how the yeast are treated. They make different by-products in different proportions when they are growing/reproducing vs just fermenting and when they are kept warm vs cool and whether they are stressed or pampered and etc. Soooooooo...... generally you should try to exclude oxygen from wort or beer. The exception is at the beginning of fermentation. Here you want some yeast growth to occur to ensure adequate numbers and vitality of yeast and to produce some of those flavors that occur mostly during yeast growth. It is said to be safe and beneficial to aerate/oxygenate anytime during the first 18 hours of fermentation. More or less oxygenation during this time will affect the yeast and the flavors they produce, but should not result in badly "oxidized" beer. Experiment to see what works best for you. The worst time to get oxygen in your beer is after the yeast have mostly finished and are "pooped" out or worse, filtered out. Oxygenation at this time will have the most deleterious impact on beer flavor and stability. If you drink your beer quickly (within 2-3 months) you may not experience this too much, as it doesn't develop instantaneously. It is also said to be bad to oxygenate your wort while it is hot. This is the so called HSA and its affects are generally observable after a longer time than post fermentation aeration. After the wort is cool, there is less problem, assuming pitching occurs fairly quickly. The thing that will have a bigger and more short term impact on your beer is contamination with bacteria or wild yeast. One of the risks of aeration/oxygenation is that wort/beer spoilers could ride along with the air. One of the risks of not aerating is that your yeast won't be as vital or prolific and may lose the battle to contaminants which are difficult to avoid in most homebreweries. Be careful with how to aerate the wort. In conclusion, treat your yeast better than you treat your mother, adopt the philosophy that cleanliness (and sanitation) is next to Godliness, aerate/oxygenate your wort at pitching time but try to avoid it anytime else, and RDWHAHB! Regards, Lou Heavner - Austin, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 13:52:03 -0400 From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> Subject: mash hopping clarification Quite a few people have asked me to clarify how I mash hop. This is best served by an example: NORMAL Hop Schedule 1oz N. Brewer (60 mins--bittering) 0.5oz Saaz (15 mins--flavor) 0.5oz Saaz (1 min--aroma) MASH HOP Schedule 1.25oz Saaz in the mash at dough-in 1oz N. Brewer (60 mins--bittering) That's it. I've also had a couple of questions regarding the other effects I've seen with mash hopping on my beer. First, I have very soft water (Plzen-type). I think the mash hopping helps to lower the pH of the mash closer to pH 5.3. It's only an assumption with no verification at all. Anyone who's going to try it and has a pH meter--I'd love to see the data. I think the increased efficiency comes directly from this event, which also explains why some people don't see improved efficiency when mash hopping. I'd guess that highly carbonate water would meet that criterion, but there may be others. I've used leaf and pellet hops in the mash with both producing acceptable results. There is some evidence in DeClerck to suggest that the higher pH of the mash helps to stabilize some hop aroma compounds. But I'm not a designated HBD librarian so I don't have the reference. Let's start those brains churning. Hoppily mashing in Chapel Hill, NC (too lazy to convert to Rennerian coordinates), Marc - -- Marc Sedam Associate Director Office of Technology Development The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill 308 Bynum Hall; CB# 4105 Chapel Hill, NC 27599-4105 919.966.3929 (phone) 919.962.0646 (fax) http://www.research.unc.edu/otd Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 03:38:19 +0930 From: "Dave Edwards" <eddiedb at senet.com.au> Subject: Kit beers and Mashing Edward Doernberg wrote: | Kit beers are far from perfect but they aren't all that bad. Yes that is true, I too started out with kits, and at the time was quite pleased with the resultant beer. I always experimented a lot, bastardizing them with whatever I could, and not even remotely following the manufacturer's instructions. But, as drinkable as they may be, they don't put a shine on mash beer. All of the extract brewers out there who have never tasted a home-mashed beer are probably just saying 'yeah, no wucka's mate', but the difference really is astounding. Moving to mash is the best thing that could ever happen to your beer. Cheers, Dave. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 13:57:55 -0400 From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> Subject: one more thing I also wanted to thank the folks at Paddock Wood for chatting with me about mash hopping in the past. I was messing with this on my own for a while and later saw that they had been doing the same thing. Now THAT'S science...or art...I dunno...I might be drunk. Not "a" drunk, but just drunk...oh never mind. Thanks Paddock Wood! The Mad Mash Hopper, Marc P.S. FWH is still for sissies! Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 14:24:09 -0400 From: Aaron Perry <vspbcb at earthlink.net> Subject: lucky charms and decoction Hi all, marc writes: > On Tuesday I brewed up a big IPA with four ounces of E.Kent Goldings > in the mash. Ran smooth as silk and tastes magically delicious....... > Did you add green clovers, blue diamonds and purple horseshoes to the mash too? :-) decoction: Hey, why hasn't anyone mentioned that decocting a mash (flavor and extraction debates aside) reduces dreaded HSA (so I've read). That's definitely a plus. AP Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 14:34:27 -0400 From: Ed Easgall <ejb11 at psu.edu> Subject: 29mm crown caps found Hi All, I've managed to finally track down some 29mm crown caps at Home Sweet Homebrew in Philadelphia. homesweet at voicenet.com ph:(215)569-9469 if you need any. 100/bag at $4.00....and they ship. cheers ed basgall SCUM State College Underground Maltsters Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 15:03:35 -0400 From: Ed Easgall <ejb11 at psu.edu> Subject: 29mm crown caps correction Oops, That email address is homsweet at voicenet.com for 29mm crown caps. cheers ed basgall SCUM Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 15:10:53 EDT From: Ballsacius at aol.com Subject: WATER SOFTNER WOES I have just moved and have finally rearranged and put the Madman Brewery back together. I was all set to fire up the old brew kettle, when it hit me...I now have a water softner! I am under the assumption that this is a bad thing for brewing. I do not want to make any batches of madman sea salt ale if you catch my drift. What can I do? Should I cut into the line before it gets to the softner and take water from there? Can I put a "filter" on the line to the brewing sink and be okay? I do not want to get into buying water, and with all-grain, this is out of the question. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. Private E-mail okay. Bob Fesmire Madman Brewery Recently relocated to: Downingtown, PA Ballsacius at aol.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 12:20:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Fred Waltman <waltman at netcom.com> Subject: 24 Hours of Belgian Special Beer We are starting to shape up our annual trip to Antwerpen for the 24 Hours of Belgian Special Beer (Oct 14, 15). If anybody in hbd-land is also going (or is interested in going) drop me a line and maybe we can arrange to meet up. An added bonus is that the Tuesday after the 24 Hours is one of the two days a year that zum Uerige in Duesseldorf serves their sticke bier. Fred Waltman Culver City Home Brewing Supply (Los Angeles area) fred at brewsupply.com *or* waltman at netcom.com www.brewsupply.com *and* www.LABeer.com www.StickeWarriors.com for info on a great beer trip Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 17:09:14 -0700 From: Bob Hall <nap_aca_bh at nwoca.org> Subject: On Perceptions and Other Such Stuff Not to open old wounds, but .... Was in the basement last Sat. morning corking a chardonney (sorry, but I did cap a wheat beer on Sunday), and had the radio on listing to NPR's "What Do You Know" with host Michael Feldman (a comedy/variety program with lots of audience and telephone participation). The show was being broadcast from Madison, Wisconsin, and one of his audience particpants was Jeannie (I've really forgotten the name) who was in Madison attending the homebrew festival. After serious grilling about why she'd attend a homebrew fest (she liked IPAs ...."so what's it like after 10 IPAs") the show went on. At one point, when the question returned to Jeannie, Feldman referred to her as "the drunk from Human Resources." I know it's comedy and take it as such, but I thought it was especially pointed given the track of hbd discussions lately. His reaction may not have been so different from that of the general public. When folks find out that I'm a home brewer, the first two questions are usually 1) how strong can you make it?, and 2) how much does it cost per bottle? The connotation is that I'm in it for strong, cheap booze. I think in my area of the country (NW Ohio), many of the German farmers once made their own due to cost and prohibition. What they made was strong and cheap, and probably tasted that way. When I first tried my hand at brewing in the early 70's, I tried to pick the brains of all the old Dutchmen .... there wasn't much available in the way of ingredients or directions back then. Actually, I think it was technically illegal to homebrew at that time. But armed with a can of Blue Ribbon hopped malt, a bag of cane sugar, Red Star bread yeast, and an open crock, I made beer that I assume was a clone of what went round in the 30's. It wasn't good, but it was cheap and I drank it. Looking back, I think we're still living with the assumptions generated from prohibition .... that homebrew is cheap, strong, ill-tasting stuff. And if someone is so desperate to concoct such a brew, he or she must have a problem. We're slowly breaking out of that stereotype, but we're not there yet. Bob Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 19:44:44 -0500 From: Crossno <Crossno at tnns.net> Subject: Lemon Hoping for a Saturday post. The HBD search engine is under renovation so...what is a good lemon "aid" recipe. I'm working on the mill so just need a lemon aid. TTFN, Glyn Crossno Estill Springs, TN - -- There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences. P.J. O'Rourke Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 22:37:09 -0400 (EDT) From: George Edwards <netidjit at witty.com> Subject: Papazian Papazian's books aren't all that bad. There's a bunch of recipes that are actually pretty good - if you skip the gypsum. And not all of the advice is as assinine as his pour-it-through-a-funnel method of wort cooling. Even if nothing was really updated between the original and the New Complete Joy, in that regard. Give the guy a break. It's tough to keep abreast of the craft and to have the personal integrity to either update your books or pull them from the market. Oh - never mind. He's done neither. Beat 'im up... Brew you! George Edwards Louisville, KY ______________________________________________ FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 22:06:28 -0700 From: Smith Asylum <smithly at neta.com> Subject: Thanks a Bunch! Man, I was overwhelmed by the responses I received from list members in response to my question, "Why Aerate?". I will never forget "why" after reading so much intelligent discourse explained with patience and an obvious desire to communicate to me the importance of why and when as well as why not and when not. Thanks guys. Hopefully one day I can contribute the same way. Cheers! Lee Smith Chandler, AZ Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 02:42:09 -0600 From: Brian Rezac <rawhide at oneimage.com> Subject: RE: Boulder Ephraim Fithian wrote: >We are currently on vacation in Boulder, CO, waiting for the last >batch of homebrew to mature in Pennsylvania. Anything beerwise worth >visiting around Boulder? Sorry, your request got by me. I just don't scan the HBD like I use to. There are plenty of places worth visiting in Boulder and the surrounding area. Downtown Boulder has Redfish (13th & Spruce), Mountain Sun (1500 block of Pearl), BJ's (1100 block of Pearl St. Mall), Walnut (1100 block of Walnut) and Oasis Pub (Canyon & 11th). The rest of Boulder has Oasis Brewery (3000 block Walnut), Rockies Brewery "The oldest continuing microbrewery in the US" (Wilderness Place), Twisted Pine Brewery (Valmont around the 3400 block or so), Avery Brewing Co (Arapahoe past 55th). I think I got them all. In addition, you should stop by the relatively new Irish Pub, Conor O'Neal's, on 13th between Pearl and Walnut. They serve all three: Guinness, Murphy's and Beamish - all on tap and all on nitro! (You can't even get that in Ireland!) If you still have time, you should get up to Longmont - "The Hub of the Brewing Universe". We have Lefthand/Tabernash Brewing Co. and the Pumphouse Brewpub. Or even down to Denver...but that's a whole other list. In addition to these suggestions, there are two beer festivals this weekend. One in Aspen and one closer in Estes Park. I'll be at the one in Estes. It runs from 11am until 6pm on Saturday, August 19th. If you're still having trouble deciding, feel free to give me a call at (303)875-MALT (6258). I'll be happy to make more detailed recommendations or even have a beer with you. Good Luck & Good Beer! Brian Rezac PS - If anyone from the HBD community is ever visiting Boulder County, feel free to give me a call. I still drink beer for a living and having another homebrewer along is usually not a problem. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 12:02:08 GMT From: "dr smith" <drsmithhm at hotmail.com> Subject: St Pats Bashing... "Jason Henning" <jason at thehennings.com> wrote thusly: >As for St. Pats, it's a never ending saga. They out pace every other >company in complaints. Search the archives or Deja News and you find plenty >of people with complaints. It's not unusual for Lynn to all but call the >brewer a liar. From poorly packed orders to defective kegs to slow >shipping, it's never St. Pat's >fault. I cannot agree with this. I have seen one post on r.c.b where someone was unhappy and I can't call this a saga. I'm not saying there aren't other unhappy customers - just that I'm not seeing the complaints to which you refer. As for my unscientific single datapoint, I have ordered from them many times and most of the time the box arrives looking like the american tourister testing department got it first(yes, I am bashing some UPS station between TX and NY, not St. Pats). On 2 occasions, I've had broken or chipped glassware and they've always re-shipped the products no questions asked. No other equipment I've ordered has been damaged despite the rough handling. Maybe Lynn should use a different shipping company, but I can't complain about the service. --drsmith ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 08:57:07 -0400 From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: chloramines, Charlie P, Brewsters: Domenick and AJ both believe that chloramines are more volatile than chlorine ( I guess that is one interpretation). AJ even did some experiments to demonstrate it. Somehow I missed this change in AJ's position from the only way to remove chloramines effectively was to use carbon fitration to the position that plain boiling does it. No problem with that change in position, in fact I appreciate it, but it does bring some thoughts to mind. Certainly one might expect that chloramines can decompose at higher temperatures (Chlorine is just associated with the ammonia) , but to be more volatile than chlorine into which presumably chloramines would decompose?? Isn't logical. Maybe the same as, but not faster than chlorine if that is the product of decomposition. Unless I misinterpreted AJs experimental results and explanation. My question is why do municipalities bother with chloramines or other forms of fixed chlorine if this is the case? Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Maybe I should leave the cyanuric acid out of my pool? - ----------------------------------- Lee Seog comments on CP's contribution to homebrewing. Actually, Charlie Papazian didn't invent the concept of Homebrewer Bittering Units ( HBU) Dave Line did. So for all of CP's bad ideas in brewing techniques, this wasn't one of them. Remember Charlie is a Nuclear ( or as he says an Unclear) Physicist who never earned his living at it. He's no chemist or chemical engineer. Had no industrial experience. Became a teacher. Was caught up in the thrill of homebrewing in the 70s, published some local brewing newsletters and eventually wrote the JoH and started the AHA. He had the balls to discard his job teaching elementary school ( I think) and jump into the world of earning a living by doing what he liked. There was no model for this. I respect him for this, as I know how it feels to step out into the wind also. It does drive me crazy though when I look at his books and see him fermenting in a carboy and pouring hot wort through the air and I imagine all those messes with resultant mad SOs and all that homebrew being ruined by oxidation. Saddest part is all those potential homebrewers who gave up and concluded that "Homebrew tastes like Sh*t" as a result of reading JoH and using it as a source for brewing technique. Charlie is not a brewing technique god. He didn't invent homebrewing. But he did play a major role in crystallizing and organizing an industry and making it visible in the U.S. so IMHO, you can thank him for the availability of all those shelves of goodies in the brew stores, and to some extent, even the existence of brew stores. He and AHA can thank all those consulting brew store owners and others, like HBD contributors and brewing book writers, for the continuance of the industry. - ----------------------------------- Pomme Frites may be made with lard in some places to account for their excellence, but I believe also an HBDer has commented that he sneaked a peek at a drum in back of a Belgian PF wagon and the barrel said "beef fat" ( in French, o fcourse). Just like McD used to use until they were caught up in the vegetable oil/no animal fat hysteria like the rest of this country - ---------------------------------- Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 08:56:31 -0400 From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com> Subject: FWH Seog Lee brings up first wort hopping and asked, >>- ---about first wort hopping--- >Improved hop character and smoother bittering. Explain? Isn't most hop character derived from volatile hop oils? Thus adding hops at the first pump over is a waste of your resources? << I think the key word here is "volatile", at cast out temperatures of under 170 F the volatility is much lower and exposure times much greater; leaving the desirable components time to infuse into the complex matrix of the wort. Someone has suggested that the oxidized products of the essential oils become more soluble and at the lower temperatures have time to become part of the preboil wort. Either way it works. Compare the recommended temperatures for steeping fine teas; a good Darjeeling or fine Japanese green tea should be steeped at 180 F whereas a Ceylon black can stand 200 F. The lower temperature preserves the fine aromatics. >>You would be better served adding more late hops or dry hopping.<<< Different characters altogether; and I've tasted too many beers that have excessive late additions that develope a green celery flavor from excess leafy content. >>and his "HBU" idea come to mind. << I don't believe CP came up with the HBU concept, but no matter. HBUs work nicely when you brew a beer again and the Alpha acid content of the hops has changed. Rather than run through the Rager formulas again, just divide the HBU by the new Alpha rating and add that many ounces of the new hops, what so terribly wrong with that? Since IBUs can't truly be calculated for the finished beer using the HBU system gets you as close as any other method to repeating the original batch. N.P (Del) Lansing Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 00:02:33 EST From: "Warren White" <warrenlw63 at hotmail.com> Subject: Re: "Vegemite" (Yuck!) Jim Steinbrunner writes.... - ----------------------------- Seasoning is added and, voila! VEGEMITE. A salty, umami-tasting spread beloved by Aussies of all ages, and they owe it all to beer! Come to think of it, a beer or two would be good to wash down the rather persistent aftertaste : ) Aussies and Vegemite: Viva l'difference! - ----------------------------- To anyone out there in the U.S. with a morbid fascination for "Vegemite" who want a better idea of what it's like... try this and I'm sure that most of my fellow Australian HBDrs could concur with me on this one. Open a bottle of homebrewed Imperial Stout, pour it into a glass at about cellar temperature and inhale it's aroma. Vegemite notes left, right and centre or do I imagine this? Don't get me wrong, I love an Imperial Stout, but I'm sure there are aromatic notes which compel be to spread it on toast!!! This could be a good excuse to drink Imperial Stout for breakfast... Sure would beat Special B oops! Sorry, I meant Special K. Cheers - Warren L. White, Melbourne, Australia We're happy little Imperial Stouters, Bright as bright can be, We all enjoy our Imperial Stout for breakfast, lunch or tea, Our mummies say we're growing stronger every single week, Because we love our Imperial Stout, We all adore our Imperial Stout, It puts a rose in every cheek! ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com Return to table of contents
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