HOMEBREW Digest #3427 Mon 11 September 2000

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		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
		Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of 
		Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
				URL: http://www.oeonline.com

  Decoction and Duesseldorfer Alts ("Fred Waltman")
  Sherry-like flavor from open boil (Dave Burley)
  travelling beer (Ray Kruse)
  roasting wheat malt ("Warren White")
  More on the "Otter" Malt (Walt Lewis)
  Pics/Gravity Contribution of Starch ("A. J.")
  FWH,squashing cockroaches ("Graham Sanders")
  Burradoo Hilton moves to Nth Qld, Home roasting ("Graham Sanders")
  Wanted: Samuel Adams & Spitfire clone recipes ("Alexandre Carminati")
  Other Formats Within The HBD ("Lutzen, Karl F.")
  Is There Really A Mr Sanders? ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  Going The Full Circle ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  Turkish wine (LyndonZimmermann)
  Champagne Corks & La Fin Du Monde (LyndonZimmermann)
  HELP for acid stout (Rick Pauly)
  Quest for a Grain Mill (John C Van Hove)
  Decoction mashing views of a Bavarian ("Norm Hardy")
  Tips on Visiting Koeln / Cologne (Part 5) ("Alan McKay")
  Re:  Vegas? (MObucho829)
  Subject: travelling beer ("Eric J Fouch")
  17th Annual Dixie Cup ("Bev D. Blackwood II")
  water and priming (RIPIC80)
  Re: So What Have I(ie Phil) Achieved? (David Lamotte)
  Decoction: to decoct, or not to decoct... ("Pat Babcock")
  Hop utilization and timing ("pksmith_morin")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 22:55:39 -0700 From: "Fred Waltman" <fwaltman at mediaone.net> Subject: Decoction and Duesseldorfer Alts Alan "Mr. Koeln" McKay asks about decoction and Duesseldorfer alts: I know that Uerige and Schluessel are not and I am pretty sure that Fuechschen is not as well (I didn't see any kind of cooker in their brew house). Somebody told me that Schumacher still used decoction, but I don't have any independent knowledge. I would doubt that any of the "mega alts" use decoction, but I again, I have no personal knowledge one way or the other. Fred Waltman Culver City Home Brewing Supply (Los Angeles area) www.StickeWarriors.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 06:28:06 -0400 From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Sherry-like flavor from open boil Brewsters: Both Al Pearlstein and Matt Brady conclude that the totally open boil, which even professional brewers do not do, but which Al and Matt always do, couldn't possibly contribute to oxidative browning and a sherry-like flavor in their beers. It's fine to have an opinion, but it is not very persuasive until you try the experiment. Go ahead. It's easy. After the boilup, keep the lid mostly on ( ~5/6) during the hour long boil. You will be pleasantly surprised if you are also careful in other stages to keep oxygen out of your hot wort. The best experiment is, of course, to do one kettle open and one partially closed on the same wort and compare the worts and beers. I am not persuaded by the argument that the browning and sherry-like flavor is due to extract since I did the experiment in my early brewing days with extract and saw the difference. Periodic repeats with all grain ( for various reasons - mostly because it was 2 AM) confirmed this. One issue which I have not explored is the difference between pale malt worts and caramelized worts in terms of their sensitivity to this phenomenon. Jeff ( I think) made an observation that perhaps lagers are less susceptible to this than colored ales. Don't know, but it is possible. A good experiment to do. Another explanation for this observation is the different hopping levels or types of hops ( which may explain A-B's ability to aerate their hot wort) between lagers and ales, as I intuitively feel that the tannins ( from the husks and the hops) and their oxidation are involved. This would still be in line somewhat with Jeff's observation. Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 07:35:12 -0400 From: Ray Kruse <rkruse at bigfoot.com> Subject: travelling beer All of this talk about shaking brew to simulate travelling conditions and no one mentions heat. I'd suggest that the problem is not so much the agitation as the long exposure to warmer temperatures that causes the larger portion of flavordegradation. Bouncing in the boot for several hours is bad enough, but when you have the sun beating down on it in the Outback, ..... Ray Kruse Glen Burnie, PRMd rkruse at bigfoot.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 22:37:02 EST From: "Warren White" <warrenlw63 at hotmail.com> Subject: roasting wheat malt Good night Seattle! This is Doctor Frasier Crane! Actually I'll be serious for a change, I'm formulating a dunkelweizen in advance and I was wondering if anywone has had experience with roasting malted wheat in their oven, in the same vein as malted barley? I'd like to create the dark part of my grain-bill with roasted wheat, I may just be on to something here... Does anybody know if this will make a difference. Just something that I recollect from somwhere saying that some dunkelweizens have roasted wheat, I dunno anything else! This could just be speculation. Normal replies, strange replies, any replies! Would be appreciated! I reckon some pioneering bugger out there has done this! Also I'll be a wee bit of a wag for a minute! * * * * * * * * * * * * Brian Lundeen writes... Walter, it was announced sometime ago that the maltings in question were purchased by Seattle psychiatrist Niles Crane, who immediately had the word Marris stricken from the malt products. No explanation was given for this decision. Note: To those of you in the world that are not privy to American television, this was a joke. It's Friday, and I'm in a silly mood. * * * * * * * * * * * * Baby I hear the blues a callin, tossed salad and scrambled eggs! David Hyde-Pierce and his alter-ego Niles rule! I think is Marris has only one r does she not? i.e. Maris, ah shit whatever! Warren L. White, Melbourne Australia (Bring back Fraiser! Eddie turns me on!) (Daphne more so!) (Funnin ya Brian) _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 08:40:08 -0400 From: Walt Lewis <wlewis at alliedlogistics.com> Subject: More on the "Otter" Malt First let me thank everyone for the many comments and information. Yes I HAVE tried a protien rest wit hno noticable improvement. Now for the details. I just retrieved an empty otter malt bag from the back of the brewhaus. the details are: Muntons PLC Stowmarket England 25 KG Net WHOLE OTTER Batch 582 9167 BEE JUN 00 47431 Let me know if anyone can obtain any details on this. I spoke with the owners of my HB shop yesterday. they simply shrugged their sholders. They ARE Local, they DO support the local HB CLUB, and I thought I'd save freight by getting local.Perhaps it's time for a change. Walt Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1904 17:53:16 +0000 From: "A. J." <ajdel at mindspring.com> Subject: Pics/Gravity Contribution of Starch The nay sayers with respect to my proposal to post the URLs of graphics do have a good point when they note that any particular service used to store the images may be gone tomorrow but what is the internet if not ephemeral? Remember that the HBD itself has had close brushes with extinction in the recent past. Obviously, I love Alan McKay's proposal and hope he will go forward with it. I can't buy Jim's argument that handling images is too complicated. The sites I've fiddled with are designed as places for grandmothers to post pictures of their grandchildren. While my SO probably couldn't figure out how to get to them anyone who can brew beer ought to be able to. The pic of my pooch was an experiment not in technology but in human nature and drew the expected comments (though one of the complainers admited that he had downloaded it). The point is that no one has to download anything his doesn't wan't to see. Now I suppose we could argue that I might post a URL which I claim is is a picture of a pycnometer but which is really a picture of yours truly (whose shape resembles a pycnometer more with each passing day) in the altogether. I give you my word of honor that I would never do that but can we count on our antipodal cousins in this regard? (Don't take offense down there. The only thing I don't like about Oz is the plane ride). * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Unconverted starch can make it into the wort where it does no good resulting in hazy beers (because it isn't very soluble) and so care is taken to see to it that the amount which survives the mash is minimal. One of the dangers of decoction mashing is that starch released by a decoction will not be converted in the main mash because of scalding or, as in the case of the third decoction, because it raises the main mash temperature to the point where enzymes are inactivated which is, of course, what it is supposed to do and this is one of the reasons the third decoction should contain mostly liquid. Starch which does dissolve appears to contribute to the gravity of the wort a little less than the same weight of sugar. This conclusion is drawn from an experiment in which I made up 37.82 grams of solution containing 0.7 grams of "soluble" (i.e. that's what it said on the label) starch. This is a 1.851P (i.e. 1.851% by weight) solution. Getting that much starch to dissolve was not easy. Heat was required and at this strength, the solution is quite viscous because starch gelatinizes at high temperature. The significance of this is that unless your wort is positively syrupy the amount of dissolved starch is appreciably less than 1.8% by weight. The cooled solution measured 1.56P (density 1.0042) at 20C. Thus a given amount of starch contributes about 84% to the gravity of the wort as an equal amount of sucrose (on which the Plato scale is based). The ratio is similar for specific gravity "points". A 1.851P solution of sucrose would have a specific gravity of 1.00722. This solution had a specific gravity of 1.0061 Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 09:16:39 +1000 From: "Graham Sanders" <craftbrewer at cisnet.COM.AU> Subject: FWH,squashing cockroaches G'day All Now here am I ready to start another mini series, much smaller this time, on those who requested information on my method of home roasting grains, when out from the bar of the Burradoo Hilton scurries a bloody big well tanned cockroach, makes its presence know in no uncertain terms, and just as quickly tries to scurry away. Now its obvious I'm going to have to have to put on my size 11 boot and put paid to this little pest before he (opps it) resurfaces again. now I was going to break up his little mess on HBD 3425, and give individual comments but this is a New South Welshman, and of course I'm dealing with a creature of simple pleasures, (and mind) so I have decided to correct for the masses his gross "misconception" about the state of play. Now remember this is a guy who made a post about those "flying taxi drivers" actually caring about their passengers cause they're in the plane as well. What he didn't say was that at least they got air-bags in case of pilot error, us poor slobs in the back get paper ones. And of couse they put them in the pointy end of those flying coffins: at least they know when to duck. And do they inform us of an inpending impact, oh no, they leave us waiting in suspense. Cruel guys. Anyway, this is a guy who does't want to start a war, but what he doesn't release is the war began long along. I do not live in Queensland, never have. We in North Queensland separated from the rest of Aus long ago (I'm sure you lot now can see why). This area of the world is truely God's own country (whoever, or whatever your God, or Gods may be). The fact is everyone else in Aus tries to live up here (stomp, just got another cockroach), and we up here have to keep kicking the bastards out. Hence the import duty of a carton of beer. We all know that a cockroach's only love is their beer. Few will part with it. I can actually remember an air jockey who deliberately snunk in and out of Townsville not wanting to part with a few rice lagers. And the misconception that we can't brew a decent beer up here because of the climate, this comes from a man who needs a drug induced yeast to make his beers passable to the masses (how else can he get those shellas arround the pool table.) But I can agree with him on one thing. Yes its impossiblle for mere mortals to brew a decent beer up here. All so true, but then again I'll talk it over with Rah, Zus, Appollo, The rainbow Serpent, Thor, (and a few other ones) next time i bump into them. I'm sure they agree as well. Now I did a rare mere motal thing when i confused poor Dan Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 13:41:47 -0500 From: "Daniel C Stedman" <"daniel_c_stedman" at uhc.com> Subject: Anybody need some StarSan? / FWH >1. use bittering hops as you would always use. >2. the 10 minute flavour addition is only to be FWH >3. Even cut it back by 10 to 20 %, the flavour can be that intense. >4. Use hops of very low aa. It was suggested 2 and below by some, but >consenses puts it 5 and below. Regarding #3, are you cutting back 10 to 20% the amount of hops that you would have added 10 minutes before knockout, or do you calculate your IBU's based on a full-length boil, and then cut it back 10 - 20%? Seems like you would be gaining a lot more bitterness if you added the same amount of flavor hops as FWH. Do you scale back the amount of flavor hops so that the calculated IBU's are what you desired from the 10 minute hop addition? What I did was assume that everyone knew I was talking about. We all know that we should never assume, its makes an ASS out of U and ME. In regards to point 3, I was making a point about the flavour contribution only. The fact that FWH can give an intense flavour, so you might consider cutting back on this addition for delicate styles. For IBU calculations, well thats a different debate. use whatever methos turns you on. Shout Graham Oh Phil, I've sent Eric happily swimming down to the Whitsundays. Apartently he can get a good feed. Eric might find it fustrating thou, like certain "muddies", he's going to strike a lot that are just plain hollow. Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 11:14:52 +1000 From: "Graham Sanders" <craftbrewer at cisnet.COM.AU> Subject: Burradoo Hilton moves to Nth Qld, Home roasting G'day All Well one has to feel sorry for poor old Warren. True he live at the Ass -hole end of this country and this probably alone explains his actions. Lets face it, not too many people in the space of a week can upset soooo many people. The Chinese are after him, the Hong Kong Water Board, Master Brewers of Belgians, it seems half the rightous crowd in the good ol'USA, well at this rate he couldn't even satisfy his SWMBO with new batteries. Now if thats not enough to get a guy going, but to have a go at us, well he had an attack of the guilts. Hey mate, we're Aussies (although not quite sure about a ceratin 'roach) - NO SWEAT. But what you did say Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 23:27:56 EST From: "Warren White" <warrenlw63 at hotmail.com> Subject: An apology of sorts I mistakingly referred to Graham as the householder of The Burradoo Hilton, I'll put it down to my semi-newbie-ism because of my geographic ignorance I thought that Burradoo was in Queensland, ______________ Truth be known Warren, I wont allow the upper class Burrradoo Hilton into the region, no matter how much he begs. It just doesn't reach our high standards. But thats to be expected. Shout Graham Oh, must keep my promise and refrain from constantly correcting those ignorant southerners, next I'll (try) and start Home Roasting. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 22:41:11 -0300 From: "Alexandre Carminati" <carminat at email.com> Subject: Wanted: Samuel Adams & Spitfire clone recipes I've tasted (among other excellent beers) Samuel Adams and Spitfire Ale (British) this weekend. I'd like very much if somebody could send me some clone recipes for these too good beers. Private emails are fine. Alexandre Carminati (in Brasil) carminat at email.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 20:59:55 -0500 From: "Lutzen, Karl F." <kfl at umr.edu> Subject: Other Formats Within The HBD Ok, there has been lots of input roll past me this week in regards to modifying the HBD to be more "hip" in regards to pics, illustrations, special charecters, and whatever, and it is time to tell all this janitor's position: 1) Plain text is the least common denominator. ALL mail programs will handle it. 100% vs. whoknows. Since I do agree that a picture is worth 1000 words, there is no reason why people cannot put the url to a specific location for illustrations/pictures/movies/whatever, into the body of their mail. If someone wants to look at the link, they can copy and paste to a web browser. It is not that difficult, unless readers are just extremely lazy. However, special characters/ tags/MIME attachements still are not feasible as plain text still needs to be the least common denominator for at least another few years for all mailers to be upgraded. There are a multitude of people still on ASCII only mailers and we cannot just say: "Tough, get up to date". Many mail programs may not understand a specific character set and what the original poster sets on his mailer will be different on another. Also, as a side note in regards to pics, it is possible for less than acceptable pictures to be posted onto the digest and then that could easily offend a large number of readers. And I would not like to see the HBD get in trouble over some extremely offensive or illegal picture suddenly get posted to thousands of folks. I can tell you right now that we would have to move to a fully moderated setup if we went this route. Something I'm sure no one really wants (least of all Pat and myself). 2) Storage of images to avoid the inevitable "404 or File Not Found" associated with thing we call the Web, would mean that Pat and I would have to beg for more money to set up an image server. Also, as mentioned above, we would have to check every image that was sent in. As Pat said in a recent digest on this topic: "Yee-gads! Yikes!" 3) We have an htmlized version of the digest already available. If folks want, they can go to http://hbd.org and click on the HTMLized link on the left. All URL's are active. 4) It is possible for us to start shipping out the htmlized version of the HBD to all who would prefer it. It's a simple matter of a parallel list. The only hard part is getting time in Karl's schedule to finish it up. 5) I am willing to set up a poll and send to the readership to see what mailers they use, what they would like to see, etc. However, I am not ready to take on such a poll at this time, so please do not hit the digest with such responses. An announcement will come out on that issue soon. Remember, if it aint' broke, why fix it? All the new (relative term here) extensions of mail do not necessarily mean that it will improve the content of the digest. In fact it would be rather easy for someone to change image locations, take advantage of security holes and lots of other nasty items I could think of, by moving to a more than just ASCII digest. Would such extensions really enhance the digest content? Personally, I really doubt it but since the digest is for the homebrewing community and not belonging to any specific persons, we will listen. The poll will follow soon... Karl Lutzen The Usually Silent Janitor Who Has Far Too Much On His Plate (But he did find time to brew last weekend) Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 14:03:51 +1000 From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au> Subject: Is There Really A Mr Sanders? It is true that recently I paid a visit to Townsville (even brought a carton along - so the poor sucker could actually try a real beer). I searched feverishly for a Mr Graham Sanders. Thoroughly checked out the Townsville phone book, rang the operator, asked all manner of knowledgable persons at the airport. Not a soul had ever heard of him, let alone tried his beer or seen his head eating fish. At least Jeff Renner got as far as the Burradoo train station and it was just bad luck that I was not home. But Mr Graham Sanders doesn't even want to let the locals know where he lives let alone any interstate visitors. I suspect he is really Dr Pivo writing posts via his brother's email address in North Queensland. The one who really was the Captain of the forgetful dive boat tours! Never mind, I'll be sending him no more Ayinger yeast! By the way, my latest rice lager is probably the closest to a North Queensland lager that I have ever produced. Light and insipid, you could drink gallons of the stuff whilst sweating and sweltering in the insufferable Queensland heat! We send people there for punishment, not pleasure. But some poor souls obviously get confused. Cheers Baron Of Rice Lagers And Temperate Climates Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 20:00:22 +1000 From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au> Subject: Going The Full Circle Before Graham Sanders rips into me about my insipid rice lager (which he hasn't yet tasted, by the way), I thought it only fair to elaborate. Some of you will know I have been mucking about with rice lagers for quite some time. What got me started on the style is quite another story to what kept me going with production - that being the realisation that the girls go ape over it. Nights around the Billiard table have demonstrated that! But originally, and perhaps feeling that homebrewing was largely supported and bolstered by only homebrewers who insisted that what they made was infinitely better than commercial beer, I had a concern. It has been said that we homebrewers cannot make a light and delicate beer (read as insipid) and have to depend on stronger flavours in our beer to mask our inadequacies in production. This troubled me and underneath it all something told me that maybe this was so. This concern sent me down a homebrewing path that possibly most wouldn't bother with. But I had to prove something to myself. My endeavour has been to produce a water coloured and flavourless (well along those lines) beer to match a Budweiser, king of beers, as the bottle claims. Ladies and Gentlemen, I have done it! My latest rice lager would have to challenge Budweiser as the epitome in colourless and flavourless beer. On one hand I feel I have achieved a technical great. On the other hand, I'm wondering what the hell I am going to do with all 50 litres of it! Drink it I guess. Or flog it off at the Burradoo Hilton. Or better still, send it up to Graham to help him through the Queensland summer months. It has been an interesting experiment and now that I am done with it, I think I will move on. The ladies around the billiard table can howl their heads off. I want to get back to what I was making before I started this silly experiment. I am going to send a bottle to Jeff Renner, and of course I am lucky to have Wes Smith around the corner to offer his opinion. But I don't think I'll bother much making any more of this watery crap. Now that I've proved I can, that's good enough. I want to get back to my peach wheat beer. That one really knocked the scones off the girls. They thought they wanted to play pool, but they all The alcohol content derived from the peach juice I never properly calculated. But the effect was amazing!! Cheers Phil Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 22:06:43 +0930 From: LyndonZimmermann <lyndonz at senet.com.au> Subject: Turkish wine Joseph, You don't mention whether the grapes available are winegrapes or eating grapes. There is a difference. Next question - are they of an adequate beaume (ie sugar content)? Should be 10 (bare minimum) to 14. Measure some juice with your hydrometer. If low add sugar, as in fruit wine. Can you measure the pH? Adjust must to 3.2 to 3.5, greater resistance to contamination. Add SO2 to about 25 PPM. For reds, crush and try to destem (bad flavours in the stems) and ferment on the skins for about a week, plunge twice daily to keep skins wet. Press and discard skins. For whites just press nad discard skins. Try to keep below 15C if you can. When ferment has finished (a number of weeks) rack off the lees. Purge the receiving vessel with CO2 (I use dry ice). Does with SO2 each time. Good luck! Lyndon Z Lyndon Zimmermann 24 Waverley St, Mitcham, South Australia, 5062 tel +61-8-8272 9262 mobile 0414 91 4577 fax +61-8-8172 1494 email lyndonz at senet.com.au URL http://users.senet.com.au/~lyndonz Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 22:06:36 +0930 From: LyndonZimmermann <lyndonz at senet.com.au> Subject: Champagne Corks & La Fin Du Monde John Lovett asked about champagne corks. The plastic ones you just push in and wire down. The dinkum cork corks required a special corking machine - similar to a conventional corker (you may have seen in your brewshop if you haven't actually used one) but with a flip down thingy under the quadrants, to let the head of the cork out. Of course, if you're trying to emulate methode champenoise you'll cap first with a bidule for your bottle ferment, then later disgorge the lees and cork. How clear do you want your tripel? Lyndon Z Lyndon Zimmermann 24 Waverley St, Mitcham, South Australia, 5062 tel +61-8-8272 9262 mobile 0414 91 4577 fax +61-8-8172 1494 email lyndonz at senet.com.au URL http://users.senet.com.au/~lyndonz Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 13:23:57 -0400 From: Rick Pauly <flp2m at unix.mail.virginia.edu> Subject: HELP for acid stout Normaly when I brew a dark beer I add CaCo3 to the mash to counteract the acid of the dark grain but on this big gravity stout I must not have added enough because the floavor I am getting with the beer know is that flavor I would get if I did not add CaCO3 to the mash. Is there any way to fix this beer? Something to add to counteract the acid? Brew something to blend with it? Rick Pauly Charlottesville,VA Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 13:02:55 -0500 From: John C Van Hove <jvanhove at knology.net> Subject: Quest for a Grain Mill Thanks for all of the great advice regarding grain mills! With all of the bitter bickering that normally dominates the digest, I really didn't expect such an overwhelmingly positive response. Out of almost twenty responses, there was not a single negative word about any mill and I got good words from happy owners of each of the five 2-roller grain mills I was considering. Every response sounded like this: "I bought the XXX mill and I love it!" Either these are all quality products or nobody wants to admit that they didn't select the perfect mill. The JSP MALTMILL got the most votes from satisfied customers, but I think that might be a product of availability and/or time on the market. Here's what I got out of all the advice I received: 1) All five of the mills I'm considering are quality products. 2) A lot of brewers (in my sample) favor adjustable mills. 3) Quite a few brewers double-mill their grains. I'm curious about #3 above. Several people told me that they run their grain through the mill twice, once at a coarser setting and then again on a finer setting to emulate professional 6-roller mills. Is this a common practice among the grain brewers out there? I'll have to think about that one for a while. Anyway, I'm convinced that I'd probably be happy with any of the five mills I was looking at. On HBDer advice, I'll make sure to buy an adjustable mill and consider double-milling my grains. I think the deciding factor in my quest for a mill is a conversation I had recently with a homebrew supply shop manager. This guy had a Valley mill in his shop, and he said it was a great mill, but he was all excited about Dan Listermann's new Phil Mill 2. With everything else being about equal, I think I'll try the gadgetman's new product. I'll let you know how it works out. Thanks for the help, VH Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 13:43:29 -0700 From: "Norm Hardy" <nhardy at connectexpress.com> Subject: Decoction mashing views of a Bavarian To decoct or to not: A few years ago (3, I think) here in Seattle the late Liberty Malting Supply put on a workshop for craft and home brewers. The featured speaker was Ayinger's Prez and brewmaster Franz Inselkammer. He is a personal friend of Charlie Finkel, then the boss of Merchant duVin (the importer of many fine Euro imports). Inselkammer showed on an overhead the brewing procedures and specs for the Ayinger beers. We took note that only the dunkel was triple-decocted. The rest were made by single decoction, as I recall. Later I asked him about infusion mashing vs decoction mashing. His reply (the heart of this posting) : "Decoction mashing gives a robust beer. Infusion mashing gives an elegant beer." He said that Koelsch beers were considered elegant. But he didn't speak negatively of infusion mashed beer. He just loved making and drinking well made beers. I wonder if Aying now have changed their brewing procedures. Their bottles' labels continue to claim brewing by the 1516 purity law so maybe they have also stuck to decoction mashing in "proper" Bavarian (don't say "German" to Franz) fashion. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 14:19:01 -0400 From: "Alan McKay" <amckay at ottawa.com> Subject: Tips on Visiting Koeln / Cologne (Part 5) =============================== Eberplatz / Eigelsteintor / Em Koelsche Boor =============================== Take the subway to Ebertplatz and get out there. One end of the platform says "Ebertplatz". Come up there and you'll see signs poiting to the right for Eigelsteinstrasse. Then follow the Eigelstein arrows by turning left before you come out of the subway - i.e. You'll come up out of the platform but still be underground, and the arrows will direct you first to the right, then to the left. Be careful after the right turn not to exit by walking straight out and missing the left. You'll come up where a busy street - Tuerinerstr - cuts the Ring at 90 degrees. Look to your right down this street and you'll see the Dom looming above the buildings. A little further to your right coming off this intersection at 45 degrees is a small street which when I was there was not marked at this end. You only have to walk down that street - Greesbergstr - a short distance to the next intersection to find the Eigelsteintor - a part of the old Stadtmauer (City Wall) that was spared the wrecking ball in the late 1800's when city officials decided it was time to tear down the wall simply to make room for expansion. All around the Tor (a "Tor" is a portal through the old city wall - most of Cologne's Tors were similar spared the wrecking ball) is a Fuessgaengerzone (Pedestrian Zone) and in the summer all the pubs and cafes have tables spread all over the square. There is a cute little antique shop immediately to your right when you first come out onto the Platz. Through the Eigelsteintor and just a few doors up on the right on Eigelsteinstr is Em K[CENSORED]lsche Boor, and old Brauhaus which will stick out quite obviously because it is such an old building compared to others around it. I went in early on a Friday afternoon to enjoy a Gaffel K[CENSORED]lsch, and at this time of day the Kneipe was rather quiet with only a dozen customers. I found the place to be a very friendly environment where most folks were Stammkunden (regulars). Everyone used the informal "Du" with each other as they spoke in thick Koelle dialect which made it at times very difficult for me to decipher just what they heck they were talking about. Nonetheless the folks at the bar with me were very friendly and made sure to include me in the conversation as it went around the oval bar which completely surrounded the woman who was serving our drinks. Unfortunately I didn't stay long, and didn't eat there since I had just arrived from a Kotlett at Lommerzheim, but the food which was being served to the other customers looked and smelled terrific, and was served in generous servings. One thing that stuck out to me during the 45 or 50 minutes I was there was that the 40-or-so year old woman running the taps and bar was actually doing a fair bit of drinking while she was there. In Germany it is legal to drink just about anywhere, and this includes on-the-job (as long as your boss doesn't' mind). As she was tapping the Gaffel K[CENSORED]lsch for her customers, she was pouring off the excess foam and collecting it in a smaller glass she kept by the taps, then of course she would top the glass of Gaffel up for the customer. When the glass she was collecting the foam in became full, she would down it once, then the next time pour it out. Then she'd down one, then pour one out and so on. The establishment itself was extensive with several large rooms going off into areas I unfortunately did not get a chance to explore. There also appeared to be an upstairs, which at the time was roped off, preventing access to it. The interior was very similar to most of the other Brauhaeuser I had visited, with darkly stained wood everywhere, and darker stained glass in most of the windows. Outside attached to the front of the building were a couple of plaques boasting of the Kneipe's involvement in Karneval celebrations. Such a plaque indicates that Stunksitzungen are held here in the weeks leading up to Karneval, for anyone who may want to take part in one. Elsewhere around Ebertplatz and the Eigelsteintor were a couple of other older-looking Stammkneipen, though Em K[CENSORED]lsche Boor certainly seemed to be the oldest with the most history. There are also a good number of newer, trendier pubs and restos scattered around the Tor, each with its own niche to fill. This is definitely a great place to spend an afternoon sipping ber in the shadow of the old Stadtmauer (City Wall). cheers, -Alan "It must be light, because our Brewmaster says that the colour is a sign of Quality: The lighter a K[CENSORED]lsch, the better it tastes. It must be light, because a lighter beer runs better over the tongue. And it must be tastey, such that all henceforth will say : 'Fr[CENSORED]h tastes really yummy' " - PJ Fr[CENSORED]h (http://www.frueh.de/) http://www.bodensatz.com/ What's a Bodensatz? http://www.bodensatz.com/bodensatz.html Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 21:06:18 EDT From: MObucho829 at aol.com Subject: Re: Vegas? In a message dated 9/8/0 11:19:45 PM, you wrote: <<post@hbd.org>> I am going to be in Las Vegas for the 1st week of Nov. Is there anything beer worthy to visit? Any suggestions for brew pubs or micros in the area will be appreciated. E-mail if you like. Matthew Obuchowski {MObucho829 at AOL.com} Chicago, IL Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 21:25:13 -0700 From: "Eric J Fouch" <fouches at iserv.net> Subject: Subject: travelling beer Regarding Jeff R'r's post on traveling woes, I have an anecdote. OK- I just want to toot my own horn. The Belgian White I brewed for the NHC AHA in Livonia was also bottled up for a couple of competitions: The Oregon State Fair, and the Michigan State Fair. I also sent a bottle off to Maryland with or own Globe Trotter, the lecherous Ray Kruse, so that the guy I narrowly beat out for first place by one point, could taste his defeat. Chronologically, it went like this: Brewed 5/12 AHA NHC Very well received Oregon State Fair 1st place Rays tasting at Founders Ales (Grand Rapids, MI) Very well received Tasting the bottle sent to Maryland with Ray by Alan M. and Mike M. (no relation) Deemed not worthy of slug bait. Michigan State Fair: 3rd Place The only caveats I can think of: Mike and Alan hate me for our off-line debates. (and are insanely jealous) The bottle I sent them was in PET, not glass. Maybe O2 permeation affected the flavor. Ray "did" something in the beer, an act he vehemently denies. I have a duplicate of the brew in the primary right now, waiting for the next BJCP qualifier. I hope Mike and Alan aren't judges at the next BJCP qualifier. Eric Fouch Bent Dick YoctoBrewery. PS- I don't really think Mike and Alan really hate me. Even if they say so. I suspect we are really love children from a common mother, separated at birth. These things happened in the 60's. They may have gotten all the homosexual good looks, but I got all the brewing skills and IQ points. Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 20:13:04 -0500 From: "Bev D. Blackwood II" <blackwod at rice.edu> Subject: 17th Annual Dixie Cup The Foam Rangers are proud to announce the 17th Annual Dixie Cup Homebrew Competition, to be held October 20-21, 2000 in Houston, Texas. This year's event is sanctioned by the AHA, BJCP and is a qualifying event for the Masters Championship of Amateur Brewing (MCAB) This year's events include the traditional Fred Tasting, hosted by Fred Eckhardt, who will be pairing interesting beers with cheese. Our Saturday Milli-conference includes Canadian beer writer Stephen Beaumont, Dr. Paul Farnsworth and Fred Eckhardt. After the Milli-conference, our own Louis Bonham will be conducting a seminar on measuring IBU's and headspace air, offering free testing to all paid entrants. Deadlines for entries are October 6th (Regular entry fee: $6.00) or October 13th (Late entry fee: $10.00) Forms and further information are available online via http://www.foamrangers.com (Forms are in PDF format.) Fees to attend the Dixie Cup include all events except the pub crawl for $12.00 in advance, $15.00 at the door. This year's pub crawl will be $13.00 in advance and $15.00 at the door. Our hotel offers a $55.00 room rate for the event. (Be sure to ask for the Foam Rangers Homebrew Competition to get the correct rate.) We hope to see you there! -BDB2 Bev D. Blackwood II http://www.bdb2.com/ Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 21:53:09 EDT From: RIPIC80 at aol.com Subject: water and priming Does any one know how to translate mg/L to ppm? My water analysis is in mg?l and all the literature I have shows the beer ions in ppm. Also, what's the "proper" or "purist" way to prime? I have done both, and found DME to produce a tighter head and last a little longer, but according to Dave Miller, the extract undergoes the same stages in fermentation, producing the byproducts. But, supposedly the purists don't want refined sugar in their all-malt beers. Any input would be much appreciated. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 13:46:22 +1000 From: David Lamotte <lamotted at ozemail.com.au> Subject: Re: So What Have I(ie Phil) Achieved? Phil Yates chides himself on "... encouraging an inordinate number of rowdy and unruly Australian brewers to speak their mind in this forum." Now, now Phil, don't be too hard on yourself - I am afraid that you have yet to understand the significance of the movement that you have created. Let me explain ..... Over the many years that I have been on the HBD I learnt a lot about the theory and practice of brewing, American brewing that is. Sure the theory is the same; but the books, equipment, ingredients and unit of measure are all totally different. But over the years I either overcame the differences through a bit of research, or just learnt from my mistakes (what do you mean their gallon is not the same as ours ? no wonder the recipes don't come out right!) The language (lingo) was also different, not just in the spelling, but the same words had totally different meanings. I just couldn't understand why you guys were cooking marinated meat outside on your 'grills' ( we use a barbeque) when this device was something that we had in our kitchens as part of the oven. I won't even mention the problems caused by the simple ozzie 'swing a cat' measurement system. Now, this has all changed over the past year of so. Sure there are still the differences of language and measurement, but Phil's down to earth approach has encouraged a number of ozzie lurkers to 'air their ignorance' to the HBD public. Both sides of the pond has benefited from this, you (US) guys get to see a little bit of colour from down under, and we get to feel a little bit more comfortable with a few familiar accents around. If Phil has indirectly increased the number of non-US posts, then I believe that the HBD is the richer for it. Now an ozzie post would not be complete without a mention of Mr Graham Sanders. IIRC he hails from around Townsville and it is indeed a remote gateway into our country. On my visit there, there was no need to bring a carton as Graham was not on duty that day. Actually, I think that he is just pulling our leg as they make you walk so far across the tarmac from the plane to the terminal in the tropical heat, that you would collapse from heat exhaustion if you attempted to carry ANYTHING with you. And I am a fairly solid bloke, although some have said that I have the 'shoulders of a brown snake'. Don't worry about the noxious wildlife getting you because you have to survive the airport first. But Graham and I have a lot in common. In a brewing sense, Newcastle is just as remote as North Queensland. All our ingredients have to be imported from 'the big smoke', and the lack of fellow brewers means that our brewing therapy is often taken on an individual rather than a group basis. But at least Newcastle now has one other grain fanatic (hi Stephen), whereas Graham still appears very much alone. Whose shout is it ? David Lamotte Brewing philosophically in Newcasle, N.S.W. Australia. Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 23:27:27 -0400 From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock at hbd.org> Subject: Decoction: to decoct, or not to decoct... Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... Several weeks ago, I brewed a hefeweizen using a single decoction. Tonight, I brewed the same recipe without the decoction. More to come after bottle conditioning... -p Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 22:59:37 -0500 From: "pksmith_morin" <pksmith_morin at email.msn.com> Subject: Hop utilization and timing To the hop chemists in the community: I recently tapped into Type 45 hops, and wanted to experiment with them in my ESB. These hops, SLO Goldings and Fuggles, carry a respective a.a.% of 10 and 7 (vs 5.25 and 5 for typical Type 90). Although I do not have other stats, based on the literature I understand they carry an equally greater portion of oils as well. My question goes to time in the boil, and differential utilization of essential oils. Originally, when I was using Type 90 (and approximate a.a. of 5.25% and 5%), I would employ, let's say, the following kettle hop charge: 3 oz SLO Goldings(5.25%) at 75 minutes before knockout, and 2 oz. Fuggles(5%) at 15, for a calculated IBU of 38.3. Faced with the "Super Hops" I now get, I decided to maintain the hop mass, but decrease the time in boil, to wit: 2.75 oz SLO Goldings(10%) at 30 minutes before knockout, and (admittedly, a significantly larger) 3 oz Fuggles (7%) at 15 before knockout. The calculated IBU is about the same, 38.6. I did this to gain some hop character (v. keeping the time in boil the same and reducing the hop mass). Now to my dilemma: The beer is good, but I am getting what I would term a rather cloying, fruity-bitterness, reminiscent of apricots or prunes baked too long, etc. SLO is a fruity hop, as I have used it elsewhere. This is enjoyable for maybe a pint, then it is simply "too much." Part of this may be the significantly larger amount of end-of-boil Fuggles. But I have a nagging suspicion there is something going on in the chemistry of the "30 minute before knockout" window. Does anyone know of the specific chemistry of time in boil, and the differential extraction of various oils? I know that at the upcoming Midwest Technical Conference, I believe it's David Ryder (Miller), will give a talk on this very subject, "Hopping to Perfection," but in the meantime any thoughts would be appreciated. Cheers, Paul Smith Return to table of contents
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