HOMEBREW Digest #3486 Fri 24 November 2000

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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Good beer bars in Amsterdam ("Fred Waltman")
  Headless Beer (Ant Hayes)
  Nitrogen Dispensing (Jim & Patti Hust)
  Re: Natural Gas Burners (Art Tyszka)
  King of beers (Rod Prather)
  high output gas burners (The Freemans)
  Cornies for secondaries ("D. Schultz")
  Nitrogen Dispensing/CO2 Tank Pressures ("Richard Pass")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 00:18:31 -0500 From: dave at freshops.com Subject: dirtclod brown ale As we were breaking 200 pound bales of whole hops into smaller packages the other day, we pulled a 2 oz. dirtclod out of the bale. That reminded me of the dried out chicken leg we found in a bale a few years ago. Metal picker parts, nuts and bolts, cigarette butts, hop twine, all part of life during hop harvest that occasionally end up in the final product. At least you can see what you've got with whole hops. Pellets? Dave Wills Freshops Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 22:16:58 -0800 From: "Fred Waltman" <fwaltman at mediaone.net> Subject: Good beer bars in Amsterdam John asks about Amsterdam beer bars: The best resource is a little booklet by Hugh Shipman called something like "The Serious Beer Drinkers Guide to Amsterdam." It has great maps and descriptions and is available for 10-12 Guilders at all of these places. (Please excuse any spelling errors -- I have enough problems with spelling in English, let alone Dutch) The best place is In de Wildeman (5 Kolksteeg, 638-2348). It is a bit hard to find. Kolksteeg is a little alley running between Nieuwendijk and Nieuwezijds Voorburgwal (which both run parallel to the Damrak) There are many of these little alleys -- on the N.V. side there is a Sofitel (IIRC) and on the Niewendijk side there is a clothing store called "Star <something-or-other>." Five to ten minute walk from the Centraal Stations. Robin (one of the bartenders there) knows more about Belgian & Dutch beer and Scotch Whiskey than anybody I know. Also, (in no particular order...) Cafe Belgique (2 Gravenstraat, 625-1974). This is another one of the little alleys, farther up than Wildeman, closer to Dam Square. It stays open to like 4am, so good for a very late nightcap. Het Elfde Gebod (5 Zeedijk, 622-3577). This basically is around back of the big hotel Golden Tulip Barbizon Palace. Maximillians (6 Kloveniers Burgwal, 626-6280). Amsterdam's only brewpub. If you keep following Zeedijk until it empties out into a square, then turn right, you'll come to it in a block or so. Along the way you pass t'Loosje which sometimes had interesting beer as well. Gollem (4 Raamsteeg, 626-6645) is very tiny but worth a visit. Raamsteeg is another alley, between the Single and Spuistraat, on the other side of Dam Square from the Centraal Station. Beiaard (30 Spui, 622-5110) is just down the street from Gollem. Also there is a relatively new place t'Arendtsnest that serves only Dutch beers, mainly micros, but some of the more interesting offerings from the Dutch majors. I beleive it is at 90 Herengracht (but I may not be remembering that correctly) but they know it well at the Wildeman and I'm sure the other places. Also, the IJ Brewery has a tap room east of the Centraal Station (bus #7?) in a windmill. Be warned that many places don't open until 4pm or later and some have weird days off (Het Elfde Gebod is closed Tues and Wed, for example). Any other questions, please feel free to email me. Fred Waltman Culver City Home Brewing Supply (LA Area) fred at brewsupply.com *or* fred at LABeer.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 09:38:33 +0200 From: Ant Hayes <Ant.Hayes at FifthQuadrant.co.za> Subject: Headless Beer Des Egan wrote regarding extract beer, "My last two batches have only retained a foaming head for about 20 seconds after pouring." I brewed extract for some 8 years and never managed to get a good head on my beer without cheating and using "heading liquid" sold by the local homebrew store, or by partial mash with pale malt. My full mash beers display the sort of head that I am after, so I am reasonably sure that the process of making malt extract does something to reduce head retention. Ant Hayes Gauteng; South Africa Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 07:47:21 -0600 From: Jim & Patti Hust <ph01731 at navix.net> Subject: Nitrogen Dispensing Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 10:59:53 -0500 From: "Art Tyszka" <art at loyalshepherd.com> Subject: Nitrogen Dispensing I gave into my "Guinness Envy" and bought the necessary items to start dispensing my stouts this way. Nitrogen tank with 80/20 mix, regulator and a stout faucet from our list's generous sponsor. Hooked everything up to a previously tapped keg, purged the C02 and was disappointed to get a pint full of foam and an almost non-existent cascade. So what am I doing wrong? I've tried pressure everywhere from 5 - 25 and still get straight foam. Do I need to remove the majority of C02 from the beer? The faucet has an adjustment that doesn't seem to do much of anything except send a 6" geyser of stout out the top when turned too far in one direction. Art Tyszka Chesterfield, MI Loyal Shepherd Brewing Co Art----- I did the nitrogen push for my stout also. Got similar results for a while. I finally figured out that there was too much nitro and not enough CO2. I charged my keg with CO2, then hooked up the nitrogen, set it at 20-30 lbs., you have to experiment, and by the time my keg was dry---------I was getting really good pours! I will surely have better luck with the next stout I brew. Not too bad, since I get to drink all the mistakes. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 10:21:57 -0500 From: Art Tyszka <atyszka at mail.cbf.com> Subject: Re: Natural Gas Burners >Has anyone seen an economically priced burner that using natural gas will >put out over 150,000 btu? Beer3 has a pretty serious looking ring burner that they say puts out 200,000 btu with natural gas. By the looks of the burner I believe them. It doesn't come with any sort of stand though, it's just the ring. I think the only way to find it on their site is to do a search on "burner". Usual disclaimers apply. http://www.morebeer.com - -- Art Tyszka Loyal Shepherd Brewing Co. http://www.loyalshepherd.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 10:20:32 -0500 From: Rod Prather <rodpr at iquest.net> Subject: King of beers Jim Steinbrunner, Loyal Serf brought us King Gambrinus... I was thinking, Bush or Gore, Bush or Gore... Sounds like a choice between and X rated movie and a slasher flick. - -- Rod Prather, PooterDuude Indianapolis, Indiana Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 09:58:03 -0600 From: The Freemans <potsus at Bellsouth.net> Subject: high output gas burners High output gas burners ain't cheap. The only ones I have come in contact with are those which use "high pressure" natural gas at 1-2 pounds rather than the more normal 6-8 water column inches found in residential areas. These burners incorporate a blower to supply additional oxygen for the higher input of natural. Burners of this type can be found with up to several million btus output. Most of this type also must incorporate mandatory safety controls to keep the burner going (as in a pilot) and thermocouples which shut the gas off if the flame goes out for some reason. I'm sure that they are out there, but the jump from the more normal 35,000 - 75,000 btu low pressure naturally asperated natural gas burners to the really high output type is significant and expensive. I suggest that if you are determined to go to natural that you look at the Precision Brewing Supply page (NAYY) and in particular at the Italian "heavy duty stove" rated at 60,000 btu. This can be converted to natural and will still give around 35,000 btu. This is not the rocket you were looking for, but I have used one on "the perfesser" with good results as a boiler burner. http://www.mirageport.com/potsus/newburner1.jpg http://www.pbsbeer.com/pbs/pbscat.html Bill Freeman aka Elder Rat KP Brewery - home of "the perfesser" Birmingham, AL Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 14:54:53 -0800 From: "D. Schultz" <d2schultz at qwest.net> Subject: Cornies for secondaries I'll add a few tid bits on using a corny for a secondary: If you rack to the Corny after the Krausen falls, an airlock is not necessary. What little CO2 production you get can be easily bled off using the popette (as another poster noted). Personally, I don't bother with releasing the pressure as it just makes carbonating that much easier. Does CO2 pressure build up affect the yeast performance? For dry hopping, I picked up a sure screen which I place over the dip tube to prevent any hops from getting sucked up through the dip tube. Cutting 1/2" off of the end of the dip tube keeps any yeast to the first glass or so. The Corny works great for filtering as it can be pressurized in order to force the beer through the filter to remove particulates. Burp, -Dan Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 11:44:37 +1100 From: "Richard Pass" <richard.pass at anu.edu.au> Subject: Nitrogen Dispensing/CO2 Tank Pressures Art Tyszka wrote: <<I gave into my "Guinness Envy" and bought the necessary items to start dispensing my stouts this way. Nitrogen tank with 80/20 mix, regulator and a stout faucet from our list's generous sponsor. Hooked everything up to a previously tapped keg, purged the C02 and was disappointed to get a pint full of foam and an almost non-existent cascade. So what am I doing wrong? I've tried pressure everywhere from 5 - 25 and still get straight foam. Do I need to remove the majority of C02 from the beer? The faucet has an adjustment that doesn't seem to do much of anything except send a 6" geyser of stout out the top when turned too far in one direction.>> Art, I'm sorry to disappoint but the 'cascade' you envy is caused by nitrogen previously dissolved in the beer coming out due to the shear stresses caused as it is forced through the tiny holes in the stainless disk in the tap head. You'll have to dissolve the nitrogen into the _flat_ beer first. Excess CO2 is definitely not wanted in solution (and is what is causing the foaming in your previously carbonated stout) , although small amounts are tolerable. Your 80/20 multimix may be OK although straight nitrogen is best in my experience. Nitrogen is much harder (at least 5x as hard) to dissolve in beer than CO2 but it will go in given sufficient top pressure and time. Try 400 kpa (45 psi) on beer at 0 deg C for 24 hours. Then try dispensing with 150 kpa top pressure through your tap. If you're still not getting the desired effect give it another 24 hours at 400 kpa and so on. HTH > Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 09:19:51 -0800 > From: "Scott" <Windsurf at bossig.com> > Subject: Co2 tank pressures > > I have just received a 10 lb tank exchange from the welding company. > However, the tank pressure read 500 lbs. Is this really a full tank? I > know the tank pressure is not exact, and varies according to standard > temperature and barometric pressure. However, I deal with O2 e-cylinders > all the time, and a new tank usually registers 2000 psi. Did they give me a > low tank? Our outside temperature is near freezing now, if this helps. Scott, the main difference between CO2 and O2 tanks is that CO2 is mainly liquid (like lpg cylinders) in the tank and O2 is gas. The pressure in a CO2 tanks is actually the vapour pressure at whatever temperature the tank is and will not drop noticeably until all the CO2 has evaporated into the head space in the tank during normal usage. As another subscriber noted, weighing is a much better method of assessing contents of CO2 tanks. Cheers, Richard Pass Canberra Return to table of contents
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