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FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
Re: Munchen Helles recipes (Hubert Hanghofer)
Just some stuff! ("Gustave Rappold")
One more new brewer's question ("Paul Campbell")
Looking for some Hops info. (angela patterson)
Fridge Woes... GFI balks... Pils... ("Bob Sutton")
O'fest ALE ("T & S Klepfer")
(Mike)
Where to go in Albany, Lake Placid, Burlington (ensmingr)
re: thermometer calibration (Rob B)
RE: rings and DME ("J. Doug Brown")
CC fermenters (Colin Kaminski)
Another "Where to go" Post ("Bruce Wingate")
RE: HERMS ("Houseman, David L")
re: adding for taste ("Houseman, David L")
Brew Your Own and Jim Bermingham (david.persenaire)
CIPing your zwickel ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
pressure brewing (Jim Adwell)
Re: Fermentap ("Vernon, Mark")
re: ring around the collar ("Joseph Marsh")
starters (Marc Sedam)
calibrations, rings, cylindroconicals ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
Re:White Labs Saison (Brewboy1)
color matching problems ("S. SNYDER")
Super V All-Copper CF Chiller (Part I) (William & Kazuko Macher)
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* Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy!
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Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 22:00:21 +0100
From: Hubert Hanghofer <hhanghof at netbeer.co.at>
Subject: Re: Munchen Helles recipes
Hi all,
"Jay Wirsig" <Jay.Wirsig at can.dupont.com> asked in HBD#3577:
> Subject: Munchen Helles recipes
>
> I was planning to make a Munchen Helles using the yeast cake from my Budvar
> (currently lagering in a carboy). I was planning to use 100% pils (pauls)
> for the grain bill but was open to options. I'm planning 18-23 IBU with a
> lot of late hop additions for aroma. Anybody have any suggestions?
You are on target with the grain-bill and the IBU's. But in my experience
there is not much hop character (flavor, aroma) in a Helles. Sure - being a
homebrewer you have the freedom of brewing to your own preferences - but if
you want to brew to style, I would only make a single hop addition just after
hot break formation. It's a good idea however to use varieties with aroma
quality. Many brewers use Perle for bittering, but Hallertauer Tradition or
even Spalt Select may be more "up to date".
Other characteristics, that may be considered as typical for a Helles:
OG 11-12P
high apparent attenuation: 80-87%
very pale, 6-11 EBC
no caramel character
smooth, soft, malty flavor
in short: THE Bavarian session beer.
Brewing:
Water:
When brewing pale, highly attenuated lagers, we need to pay attention to
alkalinity and mash-pH. Bavarian water is high in carbonates but breweries
either remove them by some sort of water treatment and / or compensate
alkalinity by adding lactic acid in the form of Sauermalz (acid malt) or
Sauergut (wort, fermented at 45C using lactic bacteria .....in CC-fermenters,
by the way ;-). I use 4% acid malt in an all pilsener grain bill to
compensate for 10dH residual alkalinity (Kolbach RA).
You can achieve the same effect using lactic acid to adjust mash pH to
5.2-5.4. If you feel the need to add mineral salts, don't add Sulfate -
prefer CaCl2 for Helles.
Mashing:
Single decoction is the method of choice. I've posted simple schedules in the
past. This time let's try an even simpler one that's very authentic. In this
variant the main mash is not conducted in the lautertun, but in the kettle.
water / grain ratio = 3.4 L / kg.
Mash at 61-63C for 45 minutes.
Heat to 68C, turn off heat and let the mash rest without stirring for 5
minutes to settle the grain.
Now transfer 55% of the thin (top) part into the lautertun. I do this using a
3L-ladle.
Bring the remaining 45% of the very thick kettle-mash to a rigorous 10
minutes boil and return to main-mash in the lautertun. Using an insulated
lautertun of low thermal mass (mine is based on a Coleman camping-container)
you'll hit mashout at 75C+-1C with no problem. If your lautertun is a keg you
should be able to apply heat to reach 75C anyway (and don't let the
temperature of the thin main-mash fall below 61C during decoction).
For exact calculations of own variations / setups:
Javascript formulas and a metric brewplanner (Excel and Unix-KDE) that
enables system calibration can be found on my webpage (see signature).
Some notes and tips:
Most people worry too much about destroying enzymes when returning the
decoction (most enzymes stay in the thin part) .....simply dump it in
(thereby minimizing the time of oxygen contact) and stirr until temperature
is constant!
Releasing starch from the thick decoction that can't be converted due to lack
in enzymes (consider we are in the mashout range) is another common FAIRY
TALE. As a matter of fact - any starch that is released during a decoction is
very accessible and converted rapidly - within minutes! The iodine reaction
as measured with a photometer is even better than with infusion mashing in
most cases.
Scorching (sp?) of the thick decoction was never a problem for me. I use a
stainless, propane fired 50L-keg. When the temperature reaches 70C the grains
have a tendency to float to the top, so I even don't need to stirr all the
time!
Anyway - my lagers using this method are brillantly clear'n malty.
Yeast and fermentation:
Weihenstephan 34/70 is the typical lager strain that's used all around here
but I think the Budvar will do, too. High pitching rates are more essential
and thus it's a very good idea of yours to harvest and re-use that yeast
cake. I'd consider pitching 0.3%v (300mL/hL wort) *viable* yeast sediment as
an absolute minimum. Fermentation temperatur should not exceed 12C.
Underpitching, over-oxygenation and higher fermentation temps would promote
excessive yeast growth and this wouldn't give us the right flavor profile.
I've learned this the hard way.
Allzeit gut Sud!
Hubert Hanghofer
Gatekeeper at the Bavarian border
in Salzburg, Austria.
"Bier brauen nach eigenem Geschmack"
Infos unter www.netbeer.co.at
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 15:54:25 -0500
From: "Gustave Rappold" <grappold at earthlink.net>
Subject: Just some stuff!
Hey guys and girls,
First, I think Big Brew this year is a Classic American Pilsener. What a
great idea to have a batch ready for guests at your party! If you brew it
right now, it might be ready for May.
Hi Charlie!-have you asked your local propane supplier for advice? I
would imagine it would be easier to plumb your burners into your home gas
line, but I think there are fittings available to refill a BBQ tank.
Doug, have you seen www.brewinbeagle.com ? They specialize in everything
you need for real ale.
Lastly, welcome to all the newbies out there, don't let the technical
arguments scare you off!! We're all here to help, no matter what level
you're at.
Gus
P.S. See my website at http://home.earthlink.net/~grappold
- --- Gustave Rappold
- --- grappold at earthlink.net
- --- EarthLink: It's your Internet.
Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 11:09:00 +0800
From: "Paul Campbell" <p.r.campbell at tesco.net>
Subject: One more new brewer's question
Hello there Nils,
I'm sure you may get lots of different answers to this (I'm an HBD behind,
so appologies if this is redundant), but here's my slant on it from the
"just want to make good beer for me to drink/cook with" camp rather than the
"must win a competition" or "have sent for full chemical analysis" brigade!
(Apologies to those who may classify themselves as either of the latter and
are offended; me, I believe it takes all kinds, and appreciate all
perspectives and opinions).
Personal opinion mode ON:
"There is no difference between Primary and Secondary fermentation,
chemically (**). The overriding factor is reaching end of fermentation (EOF)
for a particular wort, period. "
**However: If you leave ferment-ing/ed wort on the initial yeast/trub bed in
the primary (especially in a warm environment) then the yeast *will* start
to break down eventually (autolyse) and you end up with "rubber" beer. Most
would agree that it is better to get the beer off this initial sediment, but
when depends more on the fermentation temperature (and to a degree personal
judgement), than anything else. Note that some yeast cultures (healthy ones)
ferment so fast that the effect has little time to take effect before you
*know* it should be in a keg/bottle. If your yeast starts off knackered
(British term meaning weak or puny; thrown in to stimulate multi-cultural
debate) then you may end up at this (autolysed) point before you've hit EOF.
This is perhaps one reason why some prefer to over-pitch (moderately) rather
than risk under-hitting. It should be noted that those who live in a warm
climate (plus those who are influenced by brewers that do) seem to always
favour a secondary fermentation. If you believe it is redundant [in *your*
circumstances] then I would recommend avoiding it, as it introduces
additional exposure to contamination.
In summary: secondary fermentation is optional, but if you are unable to
control the yeast quality/pitch rate and/or the fermentation temperature,
then a secondary is (probably) recommended - how's that for vague. Welcome
to the HBD!!!
When? I'd wait until the initial foaming/airlock vigour has visibly slowed
down *significantly* (in cool ambient temperatures, wait until there is only
foam floating on top in the centre).
Why? Wait longer, increase risk; hurry it and you've defeated the whole
purpose.
Slinging the question(s) back:
(i) Why are you asking? (i.e do you think your beer tastes bad because
you've got the balance wrong)
(ii) Do you make lagers or ales? (I personally would advise a different,
general rule of thumb dependent upon this).
oh, and ,
(iii) For the sake of Jeff Renner's sanity; where are you??? (It *does* make
a difference if you live in a desert area rather than the North Pole!).
Paul,
Glen Esk,
Scotland
(A far cry from *any* brewing centre; but close to a nice little
distillery....).
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 21:32:28 -0400
From: daniel.angela at ns.sympatico.ca (angela patterson)
Subject: Looking for some Hops info.
Hello gang.
I'm new to the digest and was wondering if anyone could point me to a
website that has some info on the uses for different styles of Hops. I like
really hoppy bitter beers and have been experimenting with a few different
types. So far I have tried Cascades (I really enjoyed the nice coarse
texture it gives an ale) Saaz, Hallertau, Fuggles and Nugget. But I really
need some info on how and when to use the different types.
Daniel
Nova Scotia
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 20:44:39 -0500
From: "Bob Sutton" <Bob.Sutton at fluor.com>
Subject: Fridge Woes... GFI balks... Pils...
Got home today only to find my fridge at 56F... was supposed to be at 50F...
seems as though we had a power interrupt that kicked out the GFI... or so I
thought... as the clock on the microwave was in reset mode.
When I got around to resetting the GFI and plugged the fridge back in...
pop... the GFI kicked out... After trying this several times I gave up in
disgust... For what it's worth I've been using one of those thermostats that
makes and breaks the 110v feed to the fridge... seems to have worked fine
over the past week or so... even without the thermostat, the fridge still
kills the GFI. Why now... ?
So some questions for the FridgeGuy, and the lurking electrical sparks... Is
my GFI toast? I plugged a simple timer into the circuit and it ran fine...
the GFI circuit remained energized... Is my Fridge toast? Any simple checks,
or fixes... Could a power interrupt to the house caused this... (hmmm...
maybe that homeowners insurance will pay off and fund the walk in cold
room).
Overall bad timing I'm 10 days into a 50F primary fermentation... With only
a few options...
1. I'll wake up tomorrow and the GFI will accept the fridge... not a likely
scenario.
2. I take over half of the wife's fridge and lager for six weeks... that
will go over big...
3. I string up an extension cord from the laundry room and run it out to the
garage where the fridge sits... and hold my breath as I open the fridge
door... standing in a bucket of salt water...
I'd guess that 2 or 3 are my best options... 2 will cost me dearly... I can
already see my wife's eyes light up thinking about a new fridge for the
kitchen as I take over the current one...
If I can rescue the Pils I'll be delighted.
Bob
Fruit Fly Brewhaus
Yesterdays' Technology Today
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 20:50:53 -0600
From: "T & S Klepfer" <lee-thomas at indian-creek.net>
Subject: O'fest ALE
Someone posted recently about an Oktoberfest beer purchased in Texas that
was labelled "ALE". Well, believe it or not, Texas liquor laws require
beers with an alcohol content above a certain point (I forget what) to be
labelled either "Malt Liquor" or "Ale". Not beer - figure that one out.
Since Malt Liquor has a ....shall we say..... negative connotation, most
breweries or importers choose to label their products Ale.
Most Texans think of ales as something foreign and mysterious anyway (at
least where I live), so calling an O'fest an ale probably doesn't hurt
sales. But, the beer in question was of course a lager.
Thomas Klepfer
A German-English-Irish American, brewing in very rural Southwest Texas
No, you're right, not many Oktoberfest ales or lagers consumed around here.
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 21:48:39 -0500
From: Mike <mroesch at bellsouth.net>
Subject:
>There is a real bitter German beer that you can add a Raspberry or Cherry
>syrup
>to before drinking. My only question is this: Is there any real reason why
>the syrup can't be added during fermentation? Thanks.
My German professor from Berlin turned me on to drinking
"Berliner Weisse" an extremely bitter/dry summer wheat beer.
The way the Berliners drink it is with a squirt of either raspberry
or Lime syrup added to the glass before pouring. Excellent
on a Hot summer day! I can't remember the brewery (too many brain
cells gone - College was over 20 years ago haha). I think this is
what you are referring to...
Regards,
Mike Roesch
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 01:36:43 -0500
From: ensmingr at twcny.rr.com
Subject: Where to go in Albany, Lake Placid, Burlington
Jeff, from Camp Hill, PA (which is not far from Downingtown,
the home of Victory Brewing Company,
http://www.victorybeer.com/ , makers of "Hop Devil" and
"Golden Monkey") asked about beer places in Albany, Lake
Placid, and Burlington. I recommend the following based on
personal experience.
Albany:
C. H. Evans Brewing Company (Best brewpub in Albany. I
especially like the Hefe Weizen.): http://evansale.com/
Mahar's (Incredible international selection of beers.):
http://www.mahars.com/
Lake Placid:
Lake Placid Pub and Brewery (Good, but over-rated since
Clinton's recent visit.): http://www.ubuale.com/
Great Adirondack Brewing Company (The stout is tasty, as I
recall.): http://www.adirondackbrewing.com/
Burlington:
Vermont Pub and Brewery (WOW! I recommend Smoked Porter and
Wee heavy): http://www.vermontbrewery.com/
Hope this helps.
Cheerio!
Peter A. Ensminger
Syracuse, NY
Life Under the Sun: http://www.yale.edu/yup/lifesun
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 18:14:14 +1100
From: Rob B <rbyrnes at ozemail.com.au>
Subject: re: thermometer calibration
At 16:14 13/03/2001, you wrote:
>Your suggestion looks very easy, but live is not so easy, that's the reason we
>need to survive with Murphy's law.
>1 gallon at freezing point + 1 gallon at boiling is not equal to 2 gallon at
>50 degree celcius.
>The water changes it's volumen at different temperatures, at freezing point
>the water has aprox 4% more volume than at room temperature.
>So, mixing both will give 1.???? gallons (some one else can find the exact
>solution) and the final temperature will be different from 50 degrees celcius.
>
>Best Regards,
>
>Mauricio Wagner
Which is why one should do this sort of thing by weight (or more accurately
- mass)
1kg of 0 deg.C water + 1kg of 100 deg.C water should be closer to 50 deg.C
... although I would consider the difference to be negligable between
weight and volume methods
Apologies for the metrification, but only know lengths in inches :)
Cheers,
Rob
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 07:18:05 -0500
From: "J. Doug Brown" <dougbrown at citynet.net>
Subject: RE: rings and DME
Hello,
Not to insult, but do you boil your DME in some water prior to
addition. It could be that your DME is slightly infected but due to the
lack of water the bacteria are in stasis.
Just my $.34
Doug Brown
- --
J. Doug Brown - Fairmont, WV
Software Engineer at ProLogic, Inc.
mailto:dougbrown at citynet.net mailto:dbrown at prologic-inc.com
http://members.citynet.net/kbrown/Doug http://www.prologic-inc.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 05:09:59 -0800
From: Colin Kaminski <colinsk at pacbell.net>
Subject: CC fermenters
Wow! You guys are taking these things seriously. Cool.
I learned to brew in a microbrewery. Yeast handling was part of my
training. For me the best part of my CC is yeast selection and
repitching. But a big factor is also the accurate temperature control.
I don't have room for another refrigerator. I already have one for food
and one for 10 cournies. So I needed a compact temperature controlled
fermenting option. When I saw the proto-type CC at B3 I knew I had to
have one. So I developed the external peltier cooling option and got a
part time job with them.
I would like to add one consideration which has been over looked in the
debate so far. Carboys break. I got lot's of stitches last year when one
broke in my hands. When they don't feel round anymore get your hands out
of the way!
Good beer can be made in any fermeter shape. The secret is in your
yeast. I find yeast works much better after the third full batch
ferment. I'll reuse it for up to 30 generations if it stays happy and
provided I can repitch it every 10 to 14 days (ale). I usually end up
replacing it sooner however. When people come into the microbrewery I
work in and ask how I am I reply "my yeast is happy and that is all that
matters". I find the CCs to be easier to use than the other methods I
have tried. Worth the money? Each of us must decide that for ourselves.
Cheers,
Colin Kaminski
Product Development
Beer Beer and More Beer
Brewer
Downtown Joe's
- --
"Education is a admirable thing, but it is well to remember from time to
time that nothing that is worth knowing can be taught."
-Oscar Wilde
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 08:38:59 -0500
From: "Bruce Wingate" <bruce_wingate at hotmail.com>
Subject: Another "Where to go" Post
<<Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 15:17:46 -0500
From: "Jeff Beinhaur" <beinhaur at email.msn.com>
Subject: Another "Where to go" Post
... snippage about Vermont/Albany brewpubs ....
>>
Near Albany, in Troy, there is a very nice brewpub called "Troy Pub and
Brewery". Good food and decent beers. The place is kid-friendly too.
A little north of Ludlow (Okemo Mountain) is the Black River Brewpub. Great
beers. Also in that area is the Cavendish cidery where they make Woodpecker
(might be Woodchuck) Cider. They have a tasting room.
Burlington had about 5 brewpubs right in the center of town, I don't
remember which ones I went to, but they were all very good. Make sure you
stop at the Majic Hat Brewery and try their beers. They are all very good
and unique, except for Fat Angel which was a big disappointment.
In the Mount Snow area, the town has Maple Valley brew pub. I've been there
once, when their heat was out. The beers were good, but not remarkable. In
Brattleboro, there is McNeil's Brewery. I think they serve food. Their
beers are great. Big Nose blonde and Oatmeal stout are very good.
While you're in the area, make sure to pick up some six's of Long Trail,
Majic Hat, and Otter Creek beers. They don't make it south too often.
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 08:52:08 -0500
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: RE: HERMS
Joel says:
"I recently hooked my immersion chiller up to my recirculation pump and
dunked it in my boiler full of water heated to mash target temperature. This
allowed me to ramp up from the previous rest temperature without adding any
more water to the mash.
The drawback was mainly lack of control. The temperature of the wort coming
out of recirculation was very sensitive to pump speed. It was very difficult
to maintain anything close to steady temperature in the water bath. It
worked ... sort of, but I did not have the temperature control I had hoped
for. It was a pain."
Just as a one-off experiment I did something similar to this. But I place
an immersion chiller in the mash (actually a simulated mash) and pumped
boiling water though it while stirring. This did work with, as best as I
can recall, about 1oF/min for the size of the "mash" I had, probably about 5
gallons, although I don't have any notes from this experiment. My intention
was to build a motorized stirrer but never got around to it so never put
this into production. Perhaps this would give you better control.
Dave Houseman
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 08:58:13 -0500
From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com>
Subject: re: adding for taste
Shane Saylor writes:
"There is a real bitter German beer that you can add a Raspberry or Cherry
syrup to before drinking. My only question is this: Is there any real reason
why the syrup can't be added during fermentation?"
The beer, Berliner Weisse, is NOT bitter, in fact it has very low
bitterness. However it is made with lactobacillus bacteria which produce a
sharp, strong lactic sourness. Think lemonade without sugar to balance the
sourness. The Raspberry or Woodruff (not Cherry, although that could work
as well) sweet syrups are added at the time of consumption to balance the
sourness.
Dave Houseman
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 08:05:53 -0600
From: david.persenaire at abnamro.com
Subject: Brew Your Own and Jim Bermingham
Just got my copy of the Brew your own in the mail yesterday. Flipped
through it quickly only to see a name on the last page that I see posting
quite often here in the digest. Many of us remember Jim's story of an
eventful brew day he had a while back. When he posted his day here I
printed it and read it to several other brew buddies who cracked up as much
as I did. I even shared the story with SWMBO who laughed and could relate
when she watches me run back and forth from basement to garage about 40
times on brew day (and that is the usual routine). Jim's story got picked
up by the magazine and it is a classic. Now we can all see what Jim looks
like cause his picture goes with the story. I don't know who is better
lookin though, the horse or Jim. Thanks for the grins, Jim. Us city
slicker homebrewers will probably never have a brew day like that and I'm
sure you wouldn't wish it on us either.
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 09:13:22 -0500
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com>
Subject: CIPing your zwickel
Stephen Alexander wrote:
>So how do all you micro-CC owners CIP your zwickels ? That is clean your
>tanks w/o a lot of lugging. One reason I'm not in love with sankes and
>cornies as fermenters is that it is so difficult to see what you are
>cleaning. In a CC I believe you could see a lot better, but w/o a manway
>you are still limited. Pressure washers anyone ?
Don't homebrew-scale CC's have a removable lid that allows full access
through the top? I ferment in cornies. Cleaning isn't too bad. The only
thing you can't see directly is the top. Use a flashlight and an inspection
mirror if you're that concerned. Then play the memory game while you have
your brush jammed in the opening because you won't be able to see
doodely(<-- spelling? anyone? anyone?). But it is a lot easier to clean
than a glass carboy. Can't fit my forearm in that hole! I just use a
carboy brush, water, PBW and iodophor on mine. Occasionally I will crack
out a plastic scrub pad to attack the krausen ring. I don't really need to
as PBW, B-Brite, et. al. would do the job as well. And all of this in my
second BR tub. No power wash, no super squirter garden hose nozzle - not
yet...
The 10 gallon cornies are bit more squat than the 5 gallons so maybe the
aspect ratio is closer to that of the trusty old pail. Dunno. Don't really
care. I just fill it up with a 20% headspace, stick a lock on it and let
'er rip! Can't say I've ever fermented one on it's side. Don't really
think I'd want to, either. Proper starter size *AND* activity eliminates
the need to do this, IMHO.
>... I'll offer $200 to the HBD fund, eat the relevant pages of ABT...
And what would you like to wash those pages down with? A crisp Pilsner or
would you prefer a hearty stout?
Photocopy the pages, and eat that. Why would you want to ruin a good
book?!?
(not a challenge, just a joke ;-)
>So for $400 how could you best improve YOUR HB quality
$400 would last a long time to buy DME for making big starters. Probably
would be anyone's best investment;-)
Carpe cerevisiae!
Glen A. Pannicke
glen at pannicke.net http://www.pannicke.net
75CE 0DED 59E1 55AB 830F 214D 17D7 192D 8384 00DD
"Designs which work well on paper rarely do so in actual practice"
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 09:44:39 -0500
From: Jim Adwell <jimala2 at ptd.net>
Subject: pressure brewing
Stephen Alexander mentions in a recent post that fermentation under
pressure reduces fusel and ester production in beer. At the risk of being
labeled a techo-weenie, I will mention that there is a patent on this
process that explains it in more detail. You can view the patent at the
USPO web site at:
http://164.195.100.11/netahtml/srchnum.htm
and searching for patent number 4,068,005, or here's a direct link that may
or may not work:
http://164.195.100.11/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&
u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1='4,068,005'.WKU.&OS=PN/4,068,005&RS=
PN/4,068,005
Briefly, an overpressure of CO2 slows down fermentation, which reduces
ester and fusel production, with more or less the same effect as lower
fermentation temperatures, thus allowing fermentation at higher
temperatures while still retaining the 'lager' character of the resulting
beer. The pressures involved are small, from 2-20 psi, well within the
range possible in a corny, should anyone care to experiment.
I'm not a techo-weenie brewer. Really, I'm not. Really. And I'll brew in
a children's wading pool to prove it, if I have to.
Cheers, Jim
Jim's Brewery Pages:
http://home.ptd.net/~jimala/brewery/
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Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 08:52:03 -0600
From: "Vernon, Mark" <VERNONMARK at phibred.com>
Subject: Re: Fermentap
I have 3 Fermentaps and use them all the time...they are not that great for
harvesting yeast - the slope on the carboy is not steep enough. However with
two of them I do closed transfer of beer from the primary to the secondary.
Here is how....
1. Fill your secondary carboy with no-rinse sanitizer (I use
starsan..yadayadyada)
2. Push the sanitizer out of your secondary carboy using CO2 - run a hose
from your tank to the blowoff, and a hose from the spigot to a bucket. Apply
2-3lbs of pressure open spigot and drain. Close spigot
3. Run a hose from the now sanitized carboy's blowoff into the bucket of
sanitizer...move the hoses quickly so you still have a little pressure in
the clean carboy...you now have a sanitized and purged carboy.
4. Place your CO2 hose on the blowoff of your fermenter. Apply 2-3lbs
pressure.
5. Attach a hose to the fermenter spigot, open and tap off sludge until beer
runs fairly clear. (If the spigot is clogged - open and close it a few times
.... this has ALWAYS cleared the clog for me)
6. Attach hose from fermenter spigot to secondary spigot - open both...beer
flows into secondary pushing CO2 out through blowoff into the bucket of
sanitizer (airlock)...
Voila....you have transferred from the primary to the secondary with NO
chance of oxidation...
Safety warning...don't apply more than 5lbs of pressure to the carboy and
make sure there is always a way for the gas to get out...spigot open and
blowoff in place.
I have used this method for going on 3 years with no problems..I have never
had to resort to flipping the carboy over to get past a clogged spigot. I
even do all this with the carboys setting at the same level if you are
worried about too much CO2 pressure - place the primary higher than the
secondary and use gravity for most of your push you can then leave the CO2
at 1-2lbs - just enough to replace the outgoing beer with incoming CO2...
Mark Vernon, MCSE, MCT
Sr. Network Engineer - LanTech
Pioneer Hi-Bred Int'l
vernonmark at phibred.com
(515)270-4188
"I don't measure a man's success by how high he climbs but how high he
bounces when he hits bottom."
- General George S. Patton
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Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 10:14:21 -0500
From: "Joseph Marsh" <josephmarsh62 at hotmail.com>
Subject: re: ring around the collar
Somewhat redfaced,
I posted that my starter was compost and actually I posted before throwing
it out. When I got home(library computer user) I checked the smell & taste
and carefully examined the ring. Some of it was yeast paste from swirling
and some was dried foam. Taste and smell were normal and MUCH cleaner then a
batch from a Duvel bottle I was trying to culture. Long and short of it, I
used it. ( 1 qt. starter fed up twice in a 1/2 gal. growler.
Thanks anyway.
Joe
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Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 10:20:57 -0500
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: starters
Pat's spot on when it comes to starters. But I also have the
lazy man's technique for it.
I have a few 2.5 gallon carboys. When I want to brew up a batch
of beer X, I make a 1.5 gallon batch of an experimental beer I'm
curious about using the yeast I want to use later for beer X.
For example, I wanted to make a Munich Helles. Two weeks before
I was ready to brew I raided the closet for some pale malt, a
handful of crystal, some chocolate, and took a few ounces of
Cascades out of the freezer. I did a single-step infusion for 45
mins, boiled for 30 mins, chilled and pitched directly. Took
about 2 hours all told since the volumes were small and cooling
happens quickly in the fridge.
I fermented this beer out and racked directly into 1L swingtops
and primed with PrimeTabs (thanks Domenick!). The experimental
beer wound up pretty damn tasty and I had a nice, thick yeast
cake to use on the Helles. It's like getting two beers out of
one yeast without tossing all of that starter wort. I'd rather
drink beer made from a starter than throw it out. The yeast is
none the worse for wear either.
- --
Marc Sedam
Chapel Hill, NC
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Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 10:30:30 -0500
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com>
Subject: calibrations, rings, cylindroconicals
As for these thermometer calibration threads, I have a suggestion where
healthy individuals can place the thermometer to get a pretty accurate 98.6F
or 37.5C ;-)
Seriously, this is difficult to do with any degree (no pun intended) of
accuracy in the home environment. If you are serious about your accuracy &
precision, then you should invest a few bucks in a good glass lab grade
thermometer (don't spend hundreds or forget to get a case). This can be
calibrated against an ASTM or NIST traceable standard for a couple of bucks
(read many) as there are companies that do just this. If you're lucky, you
might have a friend who works in a lab do it for you against their
equipment. Maybe even someone who works with HVAC might have access to a
calibrated thermometer. Calibrate your brewing thermometers against this
one. Don't use it for brewing. The standard length of time for most
calibrations is 1 year. Sometimes I've seen the standards placed on a
re-calibration schedule on a quarterly basis or 6 months. I had my
fleamarket-purchased lab thermometer done 3 years ago when I had access to a
lab. I'll bet it's only off by less than 1 degree, if not still spot on.
Damn thing reads in C though...
In any case, you'd be more successful attempting to control the Space
Shuttle with the computer that you're using to read this digest right now,
than you would in properly calibrating a thermometer at home with no
traceable standard. The best suggestion i've seen so far is to make all of
them accurate to each other. At least this way if you're off by +3 deg,
you'll be so consistently and can adjust accordingly in subsequent brews.
Jason Gorman wrote of rings:
> The thing that
>confuses me is that I have it in just about all the batches from the point
in
>which I started priming with DME. A few of these beers have been stored
for
>almost two years. None of them have this off flavor or were gushers.
If you've got rings in the bottles from contamination you should be able to
detect some other sign, such as gushing or off-flavors. Maybe the rings are
formed by something else:
* a component of the DME you use
* no bottle brushing or bleach rings - are the rings there before filling?
* a change to your brewing process or ingredients
which coincided with change over to DME priming
* a change to your cleaning process which coincided with change
over to DME priming
* leprechauns - Why are you laughing?!? No really...
Steve Thomas wrote of cylindroconicals:
>Yeast collected at the bottom is not the
>best yeast for further ferments. Repeated selection of yeast by
>sedimentation will select for the diaacetyl producing resperatory defecient
>petite mutants and other traits of low vigor. The best is the actively
>reproducing and fermenting yeast of the high kreusen stage of ferment, some
>days before sedimentation.
I agree with you Steve, the cream of the crop is on the top. One could
argue that skimming or blow-off /could/ select for dusty yeasts too, but
nothing washing shouldn't be able to handle. I really have to try this some
time. I'm too lazy and fiddling with my brew at this crucial point just
plain old disturbs me...
Why would the petite mutants be in a disproportionatley higher concentration
in the sediment vs. in the solution or riding the foam with the other
well-behaved yeasts?
Carpe cerevisiae!
Glen A. Pannicke
glen at pannicke.net http://www.pannicke.net
75CE 0DED 59E1 55AB 830F 214D 17D7 192D 8384 00DD
"Designs which work well on paper rarely do so in actual practice"
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Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 10:52:25 EST
From: Brewboy1 at aol.com
Subject: Re:White Labs Saison
In a message dated 3/13/01 7:35:18 AM Pacific Standard Time,
homebrew-request@hbd.org writes:
<< << To the collective:
I brewed an 8 gallon batch of Saison (OG 1058) 10 days
ago using White Labs Saison Yeast stepped up to 800ml.
Fermentation at 70F started roughly 6 hours after
pitching and was relatively strong for the first 3
days. It has since slowed down, but still fairly
active. Anyone else have experience with this yeast?
I am not worried, just curious...
Cheers,
Mark,
The results that you are experiencing with the White Labs Saison Yeast
are typical. This strain of yeast comes from a very well known Saison
Producer and in my experiences( 4 commercial batches and many pilot batches)
the yeast acts exactly as you said. All of the batches I have done have
been
propagated and have experienced the same result. Generally speaking, the
yeast works very well down to about 1.024-28(6-7P). At this point, I
usually
add a second or third yeast to the brew
(Belgian Abbey, Trappist or even White Labs California Ale Yeast). The
majority of the yeast profile has been developed in the beer by this time.
With this method, I am able to get the beer down to 1.012-1.010(3-2.5P) in
less than ten days total ferment time.
Recently, I brewed a batch of a new Spring Saison with an OG of 1.074.
This beer was fermented in this manner with the secondary addition of White
Labs California Ale yeast. I even added some of the new Servomyces to see
if
it would help. Same Results were seen.
I will also say that I have had discussions with Garret Oliver and Phil
Markowski about this yeast and they have had the same results with the yeast
even though one of them uses a different supplier.
My advice, add another yeast, be patient... bottle it and forget about
it
for 2 months. Then enjoy a great beer.
Hope this helps,
Tomme Arthur
Head Brewer
Pizza Port Solana Beach Brewery
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Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 10:55:30 -0500
From: "S. SNYDER" <SSNYDER at LBGHQ.com>
Subject: color matching problems
Greetings all,
I had a quick question about homebrew color. I have noticed on every
occasion of brewing, that the resulting brew, no matter what the taste, is
darker than the clone I am attempting, except the stouts of course. I do
partial grain/extract, and even when I use extra-light DME, the recipe is
too dark. Any thoughts related to that? Someone once told me that stirring
during the boil adds oxygen and darkens the beer, I don't know that I buy
that story. BTW, I have never had carmelization at the bottom of my brew
pot, I already thought of that. I think the lowest SRM I have ever had
would be from 8-10 units, I could never do a real pale ale.
FYI, my well water is rather hard, with calcium crystals forming in the
toilet tank, that hard.
As always, thanks for the advice.
Now back to pouring out my infected Pilsner Urquell :(
Scott Snyder
Trumbull, CT
ssnyder at lbghq.com
Rotten Rotti Brewing Company
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Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 11:01:07 -0500
From: William & Kazuko Macher <macher at telerama.lm.com>
Subject: Super V All-Copper CF Chiller (Part I)
Hi all,
I just built a SUPER V counter-flow wort chiller and want to brag
a little! Even made up my own trademark! Gee I forgot the [TM].
There goes my chance to become an entrepreneur. And if there is
already a SUPER V out there...sorry, never heard of ya!
This is an all-copper counter-flow wort chiller that is simple and
unique [I think, since it is not coiled like most that we make] and
hopefully may be of interest to someone out there. The design uses
readily available straight lengths of rigid copper tubing and can be
disassembled for cleaning/inspection, if desired, by employing
copper unions in the fabrication. Parts cost can be minimal, as off-
the-shelf hardware-store items are all that are required.
The heart of this chiller is 1/2-inch copper tubing, which is housed
within 3/4-inch tubing.
My need for a new chiller was driven by the slow throughput of
my first chiller, which was made from some 7/16-OD copper
tubing I scrounged up. This chiller was about 50-foot of this copper
tubing inside a garden hose jacket, wrapped into a cylindrical
shape using a corny keg as the form. The thermal performance was
excellent, but the best flow rate I could get through the thing was
one liter per minute, and that was using a pump. So a 10-gallon
batch took about 40 minutes to chill. Aroma hops? Not in my
brewery! At least not until now.
My new chiller is made from straight rigid-copper tubing. As I
mentioned, it employs half-inch ID tubing running within three-
quarter inch ID tubing. Easy adaptation of standard copper fittings
is the key to putting this thing together so simply. This arrangement
gives about 1/16-inch clearance between the two tubes and allows
for more than adequate cooling-water flow.
Standard copper fittings that are available can be made to slide
right over the half-inch tubing by simply removing a small ridge
on the inside of the fitting. This is easily done with a Dremel tool,
in 15 to 30 seconds, but could be done by hand filing also.
If you look at one of the commercially available all-copper CF
chillers you will see a tee fitting at each end. Fittings like these are
called reducing tees, because one end takes larger tubing than the
others. Fittings that take 3/4 inch tubing at one end, and 1/2 inch
tubing at the opposite end, and either size out the 90-degree end,
are what is needed.
If you take one of these fittings, and remove the small ridge from
inside the 1/2-inch end, you can slip the 1/2 inch-end over a piece
of straight 1/2-inch tubing and position it anywhere you want along
the length of that tubing. Then slip 3/4-inch tubing over the half-
inch tubing and push it into 3/4-inch end of the fitting. You now
have the basis for an all-copper CF Chiller! A copper tube within a
copper tube.
There is about 1/16-inch clearance between the tubes
for cooling water to flow through. After the pieces are cut and fit,
you simply solder them together. Do not forget to clean the copper
surface and apply adequate flux first though, or you will not get a
watertight fit.
I can hear your thoughts right now: YEA, OK, BUT using standard
tubing lengths this thing is ten feet long! How do I bend this thing?
I don't want my inlet and outlet to be twenty feet apart!
It is very simple. Make two 10-foot sections and connect them at
the far end so that wort flows out one section and back the other.
This is easily done with a couple 90-degree ells. At the far end, the
inner tubing is exposed in the air for a short distance. This is where
the fittings are attached to turn it back the way it came. You turn it
half way with one 90-degree fitting and then back the way it came
with another.
I am going to risk askii art here! Stand back!
[ I doubt that this will come across in a manner that makes sense...
if not jump to part II]
Reducing tee at far-end turn-around point:
_________
_ _ _ _ _ _\_________ Half inch copper center exits the reducing
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _______ | tee. Unions installed at this point
__ ____/ | | would provide for disassembly/
| | | | inspection/cleaning. I did not bother
| | installing any.
3/4 exit for cooling water. Half inch would probably work just as well.
The partner end to this one mirrors the illustration.
The inlet and outlet ends are similar, but reducing tees with only
one 3/4 -inch connection are used for the exit point of the inner
wort-carrying tubing.
Continued in the second half of this post...:-)
Boy do I hate it when a post is too long and is rejected!
Bill Macher Pittsburgh, PA USA
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