HOMEBREW Digest #3659 Thu 14 June 2001

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  Speaking of Australians ("Phil & Jill Yates")
  light-struck beer (ensmingr)
  Dr Pivo - odd books. ("Colin Marshall")
  Temperature controller (Dan Temple)
  British handpump questions ("Kevin Kutskill")
  Re: Brett, and Ped ("RJ")
  Brettanomyces and Pediococcus ("Fred L. Johnson")
  Accurate Temperature Measurement (Ant Hayes)
  More Book Talk ("Abby, Ellen and Alan")
  More Book Talk ("Abby, Ellen and Alan")
  Oxygenation with peroxide (Nathan Kanous)
  Ball Valve Cleaning/sanitizing ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  Re:  HERMS system tryout and % open area ("Dennis Collins")
  freezer problems (Marc Sedam)
  Oh brother, where art thou? ("Thomas D. Hamann")
  bubbles ("Walker, Randy")
  Beer Storage ("Doug Hurst")
  casking real ale (Mike Bardallis)
  re:babel ("Nathaniel P. Lansing")
  Polder type thermometers ("Pete Calinski")
  RE: Ultimate Mall Crawl (Jeff E)
  Re: odd books (might be off topic) (Dan McFeeley)
  RE: HERMS system tryout (Tony Verhulst)
  RE:  Finnish Sahti Recipe ("Bill Dubas")
  homebrewed hops plugs (stencil)
  Fruit Puree (Gary M Chumney)
  Carboy temp results ("Hedglin, Nils A")
  oxygenation filter: is it needed? ("John Todd Larson")
  "sucrose" taste ("Dr. Pivo")

* * 2001 AHA NHC - 2001: A Beer Odyssey, Los Angeles, CA * June 20th-23rd See http://www.beerodyssey.com for more * information. Wear an HBD ID Badge to wear to the gig! * http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/shopping * * Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! * Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!! To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!** IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to the digest as we canoot reach you. We will not correct your address for the automation - that's your job. The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit. More information is available by sending the word "info" to req at hbd.org. JANITOR on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 14:47:30 +1000 From: "Phil & Jill Yates" <yates at acenet.com.au> Subject: Speaking of Australians Obviously there is not much point in arguing the loss of the Burradoo Hilton with Wes Smith. Clearly he has no intention of allowing such a magnificent venue to continue. Though one wonders why Wes (who doesn't even hold a title) has so much say in matters. There is not much you can buy in Australia these days that doesn't have something to do with Wes. I see his name on my bags of malt, on my hops and even on my yeast. You can't even visit a micro brewery without seeing his name chiselled into the brass somewhere. All this time I have been fighting with my Croatian neighbour without realising that a dark and growing monster (and a kiwi to boot) lurked just on the outskirts of Burradoo. But still and all, I am pleased to see him still here in the HBD rather than that raucous lunatic from North Queensland. Speaking of Australians, I notice a Max McDonohue asking some questions and complaining of having his head bashed in by Doc Pivo. Max, the Doc is not really a violent type. Though he does expect respect. He came to stay with us (three times in fact) last summer and I recall him telling me about an upstart Swede who claimed the Doc's beer was rubbish. This chap ended up in the Doc's workshop with his head in a vice. The Doc simply wound up the vice until he got the answer he wanted, that the Doc's beer was in fact the very best he had ever tasted! Funny how some folk change their minds under pressure. But Max, your question about changing the shape of your fermenter deserves some attention. What you are unwittingly doing is known as open fermentation. This however is not normally carried out in a bath and certainly not out in a paddock! For God's sake man, how far out from civilisation are you? One has to wonder about your bottling procedures! It is no use asking the Doc about making Tooheys or Reschs or even Crown Lager, he hates them all. No wonder he wanted to bash your head in, probably hoping to knock some sense in there. But don't take his criticism harshly. He really is a nice chap when sober (which is not often). Speaking also about Australians and the raucous lunatic from NQ, some of you American's may be interested to know Graham has taken to radio where he rants and raves to listeners about homebrew. He is also proud of the fact that he infiltrated a group of harmless folk singers somewhere out in a NQ swamp and filled them full of his dreadful brew. Now he proudly claims they return every year more for the grog than the music. Good on you Graham, what a champion of culture you are. Next you'll have them drinking metho! Cheers Phil Baron Of Burradoo (But Not As Powerful As Wes) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 01:01:49 -0500 From: ensmingr at twcny.rr.com Subject: light-struck beer What's new with light-struck beer? See the recent review article from "The Spectrum" by Prof. Denis De Keukeleire, University of Ghent: http://www.bgsu.edu/departments/photochem/Spring2001Spectrum.pdf Cheerio! Peter A. Ensminger Syracuse, NY Life Under the Sun: http://www.yale.edu/yup/lifesun Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 16:29:26 +1000 From: "Colin Marshall" <byoah at argay.com.au> Subject: Dr Pivo - odd books. The book, detailing "wine from EVERYTHING", which the good Dr. seeks is probably "First Steps in Winemaking" by one C.J.J. Berry (how apt!). It does indeed tell you how to make plonk from all manner of vegetables and fruits, including parsley, peaches, parsnips (3 recipes) passion fruit, peas and their pods (verrrrrrry economical, wee Jimmy), pears, pineapples, plums, pomegranates, primrose and prunes. And that's only the "P"s. The book has been in print since about 1963 and has sold well over a gazillion copies. We retail it for A$24.80 (which is about US$3.82, I think). We also have a copy in our library for loan, if Dr. P would like to call in and leave 22 litres of his finest Pilsener as (non-refundable) deposit. Colin Marshall BrewYourOwnAtHome Canberra Australia. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 02:11:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Dan Temple <danatemple at yahoo.com> Subject: Temperature controller I've been looking for a "total solution" to fermentation/lagering/serving temperature measurement and control, and all I could find was the usual $20 indoor/outdoor thermometer, or - neat - a $50 refrigerator controller (from e.g. St. Patrick's of Texas). What I want in addition is the ability to control a wort-warmer, to keep my Ales fermenting nicely in the winter months, plus ability to record maximum/minimum temps reached. Haven't seen anything suitable, so, I'm building my own! Once it works, I'll post the design.. Dan Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 06:26:48 -0400 From: "Kevin Kutskill" <beer-geek at home.com> Subject: British handpump questions Hoping to put an British handpump in my basement, but have a few questions. I've read that the pump cylinder holds a 1/4-1/2 pints worth of beer, and will be sitting at room temperature, unless something is done. They sell water jackets to circulate cool water around the cylinder, and keep the beer in the cylinder cool, but now I would have to have a setup to have a reservoir of cool water and pump to pump the water through this water jacket (read: more $$$). Anyone else come up with another solution, or is this not a problem to worry about in the first place? I would think that having room temperature beer sitting in the pump cylinder all the time increases the risk of infected beer, and in addition, it seems like a lot of wasted beer if I had to dump 1/4-1/2 pints worth of beer every time I want to pour myself a pint. Any comments? Kevin beer-geek at home.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 07:05:57 -0400 From: "RJ" <wortsbrewing at cyberportal.net> Subject: Re: Brett, and Ped Keith Busby <kbusby at facstaff.wisc.edu> wrote: "Anybody know where I can get Brettanomyces and Pedioccocus currently? I don't mean the Wyeast Lambic blend. YCKC no longer supplies and Brewer's Resource is having trouble getting one of the two. I can culture from slant." Try getting from BrewTek, they offer: Brewtek CL-5200 Brettanomyces lambicus Wild yeast strain associated with the country-side breweries of Belgian. This yeast is an important contributor to the flavor profile of lambic beers and contributes a unique and complex flavor sometimes described as "horsey" or "old leather." A slow-growing yeast which takes several weeks to ferment and develop its unique character. Brewtek CL-5600 Pediococcus damnosus Lactic acid producing bacteria found in lambic beers. This is is a slow-growing bacteria which prefers anaerobic (no oxygen) conditions. It is also common brewery contaminant which produces large amounts of diacetyl. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 07:40:06 -0400 From: "Fred L. Johnson" <FLJohnson at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Brettanomyces and Pediococcus Keith asks about a source for Brettanomyces and Pediococcus. I was able to find Brettanomyces lambicus from Brewer's Resource (brewtek.com), cat. no. CL5200. They also offer Pediococcus damnosus (CL5600), but I haven't ordered it so I don't know if it is really available. - -- Fred L. Johnson Apex, North Carolina USA Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 09:34:06 +0200 From: Ant Hayes <Ant.Hayes at FifthQuadrant.co.za> Subject: Accurate Temperature Measurement The various posts regarding accurate temperature measurement in a carboy give me a chance to punt stainless fermenters again to get Steve's mind off the H:W argument. With stainless, it is quite easy to purge weld a socket into the fermenter. I have a Wica thermoprobe that screws into the socket- which tells me the temperature of the fermenting wort, and drives the pump that sends ice water around the cooling jacket - keeping the temp where I want it. (and its cheaper than a Big Bertha) Ant Hayes Gauteng; South Africa Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 08:58:19 -0300 From: "Abby, Ellen and Alan" <elal at pei.sympatico.ca> Subject: More Book Talk Dr. Pivo asked about a book on country wines. I have "THe Penguin Book of Home Brewing and Wine-Making" by W.H.T. Tayleur, second edition 1982 (ISBN 0 14 046.190 6)(1st pub 1973) in which he has 38 pages titled "Making Cuntry Wine" and includes such favorities as rosehip, raisin, dandelion, marigold, coffee, parsnip, broad bean, sap and the ever famous oak leaf. The beer section of the book makes a nice counter point to Dave Line's recipe approach in the 1970's. Where Line looks to mimick commercial brews, Tayleur is expressing something of a traditional home approach. He includes rowanberry ales. His literary references are interesting. Technically, Line is really more advanced. I also have just bought the Classic Beer Style Series "Mild Ale" published in 1999 by David Sutula and I am really enjoying it. The books in the series are a bit hit and miss but this one is full of the kind of facts, opinion and beer lables that make for a very good read. Alan in PEI Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 09:01:29 -0300 From: "Abby, Ellen and Alan" <elal at pei.sympatico.ca> Subject: More Book Talk Dr. Pivo asked about a book on country wines. I have "The Penguin Book of Home Brewing and Wine-Making" by W.H.T. Tayleur, second edition 1982 (ISBN 0 14 046.190 6)(1st pub 1973) in which he has 38 pages titled "Making Country Wine" and includes such favorities as rosehip, raisin, dandelion, marigold, coffee, parsnip, broad bean, sap and the ever famous oak leaf. The beer section of the book makes a nice counter point to Dave Line's recipe approach in the 1970's. Where Line looks to mirror commercial brews, Tayleur is expressing something of a rural traditional home approach. He includes rowanberry ales. His slightly musty academic style and literary references are interesting. In terms of brewing procedure, Line is really more advanced. I also have just bought the Classic Beer Style Series "Mild Ale" published in 1999 by David Sutula and I am really enjoying it. The books in the series are a bit hit and miss but this one is full of the kind of facts, opinion and beer lables that make for a very good read. Alan in PEI Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 06:59:23 -0500 From: "MrWES" <mrwes at worldnet.att.net> Subject: - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 13:16:12 -0500 From: rlabor at lsuhsc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald) Subject: RE: Accurate Carboy Temperature Reading >From: "Hedglin, Nils A" <nils.a.hedglin at intel.com> In my chest freezers the height can make a difference, a lot of difference in the temps measured. >..So, any suggestions on what I can do >differently... I once had the thermometer probe dangling against the fridge wall, and I moved it more to the center of the compartment and it made a big difference in the temp accuracy. Now I bunge cord it to the glass carboy or metal keg fermenter. This way I can get the best reading and control of temperature. Fermentations when active can be 10 or so degrees above ambient. Until I started taking the actual temp of the fermenter instead of the ambient, my actual temps were much higher than I thought they were. A great little thermometer is available from Radio Shack stores - it sells for around $15, has a remote plastic covered probe. I have been using this to measure temps in various ways. I attach it to the fermenters, or the yeast flask, and anything else I want to know the temperature of. I do not immerse it in liquid as I do not think it is waterproof. You could try using a small fan to circulate air inside the fridge, this should greatly even out the temperature throughout the compartment. If you are using a refrigerator, then there may already be a fan pulling air in from the freezer, in fact, it could be causing the cold air to concentrate in one location. I know I can freeze lettuce if I place it too high up and close to the back of my fridge. Adding another circulating fan may help. Ron La Borde Ron, That's exactly what I did. I was having problems getting an even temperature throughout my lager box and it was causing more diacetyl production that I cared for. I went to Radio Shack and purchased a 3" fan and connected it to a DC adaptor. From there I connected to my digital temp controller. I have two milk crates in my upright freezer/lager box and my carboys sit on top of them. I fastened the fan with zip ties to one of the milk crates, with the air output side facing up. Now when the freezer goes on, the fan also goes on. This was a major improvement in maintaining temperature within the box. I also find the freezer cycles on much less than before. Bill Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 07:11:18 -0500 From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu> Subject: Oxygenation with peroxide I'd be concerned about using hydrogen peroxide in my wort that it might oxidize the melanoidins and such leading to stale flavors. I could be wrong. nathan in madison, wi Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 09:30:12 -0400 From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com> Subject: Ball Valve Cleaning/sanitizing Jay Wirsig had a good idea about cleaning a ball valve. >A recent post posed a question about ball valve cleaning (on the bottom of >a conical fermenter) for yeast harvesting. One way of doing this is >drilling a hole in the ball on the downstream side so that the contents >trapped inside the ball may drain and a special cleaning lance could be >made to insert into the ball cavity for cleaning & sanitizing. You might be able to machine it at home if you get one of those valves that can be disassembled. But they cost $$$. A good valve has a stainless ball and I'm sure it's not a simple job. The other alternative is to purchase a 3-way valve and use one of the ports for cleaning. Again, $$$, but no work. I am mulling over options for a future CC fermenter. The best option is a butterfly valve which costs about US$100. You can get sterile connections when using this and clover fittings, but do I really need that? Won't a nice stainless ball valve do just as well? If you're using one and it's working fine, please let me know by personal e-mail. Carpe cerevisiae! Glen A. Pannicke glen at pannicke.net http://www.pannicke.net 75CE 0DED 59E1 55AB 830F 214D 17D7 192D 8384 00DD "I have made this letter longer than usual, because I lack the time to make it short." - Blaise Pascal Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 09:36:26 -0400 From: "Dennis Collins" <dcollins at drain-all.com> Subject: Re: HERMS system tryout and % open area Mike Pensinger writes that his first go on his new HERMS system was less than stellar: "Well I brewed in the new system and had a few problems. The pump I am using compacted the mash almost instantly . I am curious if a larger false bottom with more open area would make a difference." Mike, a friend of mine was using a round 10 gallon Gott cooler with a Phil's false bottom and using the recirculation technique. He was also having problems with compacted mashes. Even with slow recirc rates, the mash tended to compact. Once, I watched him pull out the false bottom and we both saw the problem: the 3/32" diameter holes are just the right size so that a piece of grain and/or husk can get stuck in the hole. About 50% of the holes in the false bottom were plugged with single kernels of grain and he had to poke them out one by one. After that, he switched to a rectangular cooler and a slotted manifold and things got much better. I think the main difference is the geometry of the open area. The slots in the manifold are harder to plug with the geometry of the grain. Also, when a rectangular cooler is used, the grain bed is not as deep which I also think helps. Now, I have read about many brewers who use the false bottom with recirculation and have no problems at all - I don't dispute that. I can't explain why some brewers have success while others don't. Maybe it's the grind that makes a difference - I don't know. But after seeing what I saw, I went with a slotted manifold in a rectangular cooler and was able to recirculate wide open with 3/8" tubing with no rice hulls. To summarize, I think it's more than just % open area. The slotted manifold doesn't come close to the % open area of a false bottom, yet it seems to work just as well. Take a look at open area geometry (holes vs. slits) and grain bed depth. Dennis Collins Knoxville, TN Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 09:34:06 -0400 From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> Subject: freezer problems Now that summer has suggested its arrival in bucolic NC, I have about two weeks to build up a supply of beer in my chest freezer to last until October. I have notice that there's a great deal of rust in my chest freezer lately. This is a 2 year old Whirlpool 15cu.ft. freezer and it is pock-marked with rust all over the sides. My guess is their coating process was less than wonderful and the condensation in the freezer has caused gradual rusting. Does anyone have a good solution? The freezer varies in internal temperature between 30-55F depending on the stage of the brewing cycle. Are there coatings I can use to stop rust in there? - -- Marc Sedam Chapel Hill, NC Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 06:01:52 +0930 From: "Thomas D. Hamann" <tdhamann at senet.com.au> Subject: Oh brother, where art thou? G'day Lazza! Live in the Adelaide Hills, 30 km out of Adelaide, the capital city of South Australia. copya, Thomas. At 12:12 13/06/01 -0400, Larry wrote: >Subject: role call--where in the world are you? > >I'm fascinated by the reach of the HBD--we have people from >not only the U.S.A., Canada and Australia but Japan, the UK, >Europe and South America. Since the digests are rather small >lately, it seems like a good time to ask if people living in other >than North America would mind telling us where they are? >(And if you're an expatriate, what is your nationality?) > >Larry Maxwell >Atlanta, Georgia, U.S.A. > Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 07:47:07 -0600 From: "Walker, Randy" <Walkerr at littongcs.com> Subject: bubbles I experienced a problem that I hadn't seen before when I went to bottle a batch of IPA. The primary fermentation was finished after about 5 days, but I didn't have time to transfer to a secondary carboy until the 7th day. I dry-hopped with pellets and then placed the carboy in a basement cold-storage room for 9 days. The cold-storage room maintains a constant temperature of 58 degrees F this time of year. I brought the carboy to my 70 deg. F kitchen, yesterday, and started preparing to bottle. After about 40 minutes, I noticed that the beer in the carboy was starting to bubble, carrying tons of hop bits throughout the previously clear beer. I don't think that fermentation has restarted due to the increase in temperature, since the primary fermentation was completely dead. So I am guessing that the increase in temperature caused CO2 to come out of solution. Is this right? Randy Walker Northrop Grumman Navigation Systems Salt Lake City, UT 801-539-1200, X-7484 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 08:46:47 -0500 From: "Doug Hurst" <DougH at theshowdept.com> Subject: Beer Storage Well, the heat of summer has reached Chicago. I find that I have a number of weddings to provide homebrew for this summer and must keep brewing. I am all too familiar with the off flavors which can be produced by fermenting in the 80-90F temperature range, but what about storing beer at that range? If I am able to ferment my ales at a reasonable range, what is likely to occur to my beer if I store it quietly in a cornie for a few weeks at 80-90F? Are any off flavors produced from warm storage likely to be subtle or overwhelming? I will mostly be using Wyeast 1056 for these beers, if that makes a difference. Thanks, Doug Hurst Chicago, IL Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:09:46 -0400 From: Mike Bardallis <dbgrowler at provide.net> Subject: casking real ale Reading the responses to Dan's question, I realize that my learned friend Ray and others are correct in practice. I had a brief attack of "engineeritis" that caused me to get theoretical (a rare event, thankfully). In practice, _no_ ullage is almost impossible and undesirable, as the shive will not easily or cleanly seat without a teense of airspace, and we all could probably do without the attendant spray of beer displaced as the shive is driven home. So we are all really in agreement in practical terms, if we read "no headspace" as "minimal headspace".... Mike Bardallis, practically up to my headspace in beer in scenic Allen Park, MI Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:13:51 -0400 From: "Nathaniel P. Lansing" <delbrew at compuserve.com> Subject: re:babel Steve suggested: >>Del I'm so weary of you changing topics every time .... What's this got to do with aspect ratios and yeast performance ?<< It was in reply to your question so who changed topic? >>. If yeast lusted for O2 there would be a lot less ethanol in your beer.<< That is looking at from our desires, as I mentioned the free availability of O2 in a natural setting assists greatly in the yeasts proliferation of the species. That we create artificial environments to guide the products of the yeast life cycle doesn't change the yeasts basic needs. >>cannot explain their ability >>to handle maltose and maltotriose and their ready adaption to anaerobic >>conditions. Adding barley starch (not surface present nor a fruit) as an >>afterthought didn't erase the original error. It doesn't *need to explain why they can utilize maltotriose, unless you think mankind engineered brewer's yeast. My whole point was we are using yeasts that evolved fermenting natural sources of carbohydrates, none of these sources are meters in depth and it just could be that any depth greater than an inch or so could affect their natural processes. >>Adding context material that this "invention" was presented this at a particular conference, << Admitting you took the quote out of context to make a point! In context George said he picked it up from that conference. >>There is no contradiction in statements that yeast need tiny amounts of O2 for lipids yet don't lust after O2. << My only error there was using an anthropomorphic description for the yeast's need for oxygen. I think everyone else understood what I was intending. >>I have NEVER stated commercial fermenters fail due to H:W as you falsely claim I said.<< Of course , you've been on the other side of the debate, you did mention they fail from heat trapping and CO2 entrainment,_anything_but H:W. My viewpoint is that these failures modes can be removed by changing H:W. I believe that was the result of the DeClerck/Fix trials. >>You still haven't explained why volume is now a H:W constraint when you yourself posted that DeClerck's experiments covered a large range of fermenter volumes.<< You are the one that insists on controlling as many variables as possible. How could one study the H:W effect without verifying it first happened at the same temperatures, same wort, same yeast, same volume, same altitude? If you could ferment a 1 liter batch in a 3:1 vessel at a depth of *approximately 1/3 meter and a 100K liter batch in a 1:1 fermenter at a depth of 100 meters, what would that show? Right, nothing! because *you don't want to control the volume. To really test the effect you have to change only the H:W and nothing else, so in relation to testing the "H:W effect" volume is a constraint. Actually, I've noticed flavor changes due to fermenter shape long before I read AoBT. So this is nothing new. Why you can't accept there can be a difference remains a puzzlement. The oxygen pick up is assuredly different, thus yeast growth, vigor and flavor developement is different. It's really not magic. It's knowing and working the yeast strain you are using. NPL Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:06:12 -0400 From: "Pete Calinski" <pjcalinski at adelphia.net> Subject: Polder type thermometers Jim Clement asked about experiences with the Polder type thermometers. I have one and use it because of its alarm feature and timer. However, I am very careful that only the tip gets wet. If the junction of the probe and the braided wire gets wet, the probe will start to "wander" off in temperature. I tried to seal the junction with a food grade silicon sealant but that doesn't work. I have had limited success at drying it out by putting he probe in the oven and watching the readout until it starts to make sense. A few years ago, there was quite a discussion in the HBD about this. I recommend you search the archives. I seem to remember that some people tried to cover the braid and junction with Teflon shrink tubing but that fails after a time. I don't think anyone came up with a better solution. Hope this helps. Pete Calinski East Amherst NY Near Buffalo NY ******************************************************************** *My goal, * Go through life and never drink the same beer twice. * (As long as it doesn't mean I have to skip a beer.) ******************************************************************** Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 07:24:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff E <megajh73 at excite.com> Subject: RE: Ultimate Mall Crawl I was up in Minn/St. Paul on business and found a pub called something like "City Hall" (I think)....Great beer, good food!! I sat at the bar and realized after a long while that I was sitting next to the brewmaster. Very nice guy and had a lot of great ideas about making good beer. I think Summit brewing has a pub too. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 08:41:05 -0500 From: Dan McFeeley <mcfeeley at keynet.net> Subject: Re: odd books (might be off topic) On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, Dr. Pivo wrote, in part: >It just occurred to me that some of you may also be able to find a book >I have been longing to take a look at again. I think it was called >"country wines" or some such, was a British author, and late 60's early >70's. . . Should anyone know the "real title" and where I could get hold >of a copy, I'd certainly appreciate it. Sounds like _Folk Wines, Cordials, & Brandies_ by Moritz A. Jagendorf (New York: Vanguard Press, Inc., 1963). It's probably out of print by now -- interlibrary loan request might track down a copy for you. This is much more than a simple "how to" book. Jagendorf spent a lot of time tracking down what amounts to folk lore -- i.e., the rural folklore and traditions associated with the making of simple wines from fruits, flowers, vegetables, and so on. Here's a brief quote that captures the spirit of the book: If you have a home in the country, there is the pastoral pleasure of watching flowers grow and fruits ripen before you transform them into good wines. I spend many pleasurable moments following the growth of lacy elder blossums, curling young vine leaves scented roses, elephant-eared red rhubarb, and many other plants from which I make fresh wines. Then there is the intimate tactile pleasure of gathering flowers, fruits, and leaves with your own hands, renewing the dim and veiled ancient feeling that there is a living spirit in each of them. You begin to know the value of rain and sunshine and clouds. You become close partners in your work, in which you are the creator. One may also speak of the sensuous pleasure of washing the colored fruits in fresh, cold water and crushing them with the palms of the hands. Just as Wordsworth said ". . . beauty born of murmuring sound shall pass into her face," so might I say the beauty born of intimacy with nature's art and marvels passes into our spirit. Although the making of folk wines, at first glance, isn't much concerned with brewing, there is a kindred spirit shared by old time rural brewers, vintners, cider makers, and meadmakers. This might be a little too rough an analogy, but I think you can compare this with the enjoyment of folk music from the British Isles -- if you focus on, say, the bagpipe alone you lose much of the spirit of Celtic style music. Good luck in finding a copy! <><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><> Dan McFeeley mcfeeley at keynet.net Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:37:59 -0400 From: Tony Verhulst <verhulst at zk3.dec.com> Subject: RE: HERMS system tryout > From: "Mike Pensinger" <beermkr at bellatlantic.net> > Subject: HERMS system tryout > Well I brewed in the new system and had a few problems. The pump I am using > compacted the mash almost instantly . I am curious if a larger false bottom > with more open area would make a difference. > I am curenlty using a 9 inch disk of perforated stainless. The holes a > pretty small and I have access to a piece with 1/8 inch holes. Would these > be too big? My guess is that 9 inches is OK for a 5 gallon system. I use a 11.5 inch false bottom on my 10 gallon RMS system and have no problems. 1/8 may be a little too big but that's better than too small. Too small will clog you up pretty quickly. My false bottom was "store bought" and is made by Advanced Brewing Techniques. I love it. > I have also coltemplated a speed control for the pump. I figured I could > get decent control with just a dimmer switch. Has anyone else done this (I > know it is not the correct way)? Yup, thats what I use. I think (hope) that my Recirculating Mash System web page will supply answers to some of your questions: http://www.world.std.com/~verhulst/RIMS/rims.htm Tony V. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 14:53:13 -0000 From: "Bill Dubas" <bill_dubas at hotmail.com> Subject: RE: Finnish Sahti Recipe Hi Jay; I also have tried Sahti and agree that it is quite a unique beer. I live in Dallas and work for Nokia, which is based in Finland, and have had the opportunity to travel to Finland on business a few times. The only problem is that I am always staying in Oulu, a city that is much farther north. The Sahti "district" is closer to Helsinki, as you have described. I have only tried the sahti made by Finlandia. My attempts at making sahti have yielded mixed results. I have found that the key to this beer is using the Finnish bakers' yeast. The yeast comes in 2 cubic-inch blocks wrapped in wax paper and is the consistency of a soft cheese. It is available in the dairy section of most Finnish grocery stores. I have used dried powdered yeast and it has not yielded the same flavor/aroma profile. As I have plenty of coworkers in Finland, I am lucky to have a ready supply source of this yeast. One item that is not included in the recipe that you have provided is juniper. Many recipes state that the mash is to be filtered through a bed of fresh juniper twigs. This infuses a resiny aroma that can be quite interesting too. I was not able to find juniper for my sahti (I was told that some ornamental varieties are poisonous and did not want to risk it) so I used crushed juniper berries in the mash. As you have stated, the wort is not boiled. As a result, the beer is full of complex proteins, etc. that would normally have precipitated out in the break during the boil. I have entered Sahti in a few competitions but it has not done well. It has a VERY limited shelf life and is best consumed within a week or two of brewing. Most competitions require entries to be submitted much earlier and the flavor has changed drastically by judging time. In doing research for this style, I ran across a web page that has lots of useful info. Try viewing http://beer.tcm.hut.fi/Sahti/ Regards; Bill Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 11:09:15 -0400 From: stencil <stencil at bcn.net> Subject: homebrewed hops plugs There's 14 strings of Liberty out back, all at 20 ft, and it looks like a bumper year. I have a mind to make my own hops plugs, a'la Hanbury's Hoplets and similar commercial offerings. Typically these are 1/2-oz units, disks about 1-1/2" diam and about an inch thick (40 X 25 mm?). I'm envisioning a PVC pipe cylinder and a maple or oak piston and head, actuated horizontally with a scissors jack, all secured to piece of scrap decking. Is there anyone who has done this, or who has experience with commercial practice? Should I do any preliminary drying or should I provide channels for juice runoff? Is PVC or ABS stout enough for the forces involved? Should I try to build up the plugs with multiple strata or just shovel it in and drive it home? *sigh* It's a complex world. stencil sends RKBA! Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 11:35:31 -0400 From: Gary M Chumney <garychumney at juno.com> Subject: Fruit Puree Do to a crash of my computer I lost the daata that had been listed as to the sugars and other items in Oregon fruit products. What I would like is to be able to predict the final SRM of all the produxcts and their degree of of fermentation. I use them in a lot of different types of beers and some wines but I have not got the necessary information that I would like to have in order to plug it into Pro-Mash. Gary Chumney Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 08:27:03 -0700 From: "Hedglin, Nils A" <nils.a.hedglin at intel.com> Subject: Carboy temp results Thanks for all the suggestions & info both on & off-list. It sounds like I need to get one of those Radio Shack thermometers since it was mentioned about 8 times. Ron La Borde gave me the idea of why there might be such a big temp difference between my carboy & the thermometer I have. The carboy is sitting in the floor of the fridge, where the meat & vegetable drawers would be. The cup with the floating thermometer is on a shelf about chest height so it would be easy to get to. I'm guessing that the meat & vegetable drawer area are chilled more than the upper part of the fridge, so last night I put the floating thermometer on the floor with the carboy. This morning, the Fermometer & thermometer were within a few degrees of each other. So, that's one mystery solved. Unfortunately, I still think my Johnston Controller is broken since it only turns the fridge on now when I set it for 50 degrees or below & the carboy is at 72. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 09:50:19 -0700 From: "John Todd Larson" <larson at amazon.com> Subject: oxygenation filter: is it needed? I have the reverse-threaded regulator for use on the benzomatic-type oxygen cylinders. My set-up came with a small in-line filter that recently became damaged. if I santize the tubes, etc., is the filter REALLY necessary? I am brewing this weekend (my father's day choice), and don't have a usable filter. Any ideas regarding a filter I could make at home? How about a clean cotton ball wedged into a pill bottle or other container with the plastic tubing going in one side and out the other? Any other thoughts? Thanks, Todd larson at amazon.com (206) 266-4367 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 19:21:14 +0200 From: "Dr. Pivo" <dp at pivo.w.se> Subject: "sucrose" taste Steve Alexander writes: > Ages ago, before Dr.Pivo developed his talent for rudeness (snip) > Actually the "talent" has existed for quite some time; I believe. It is what is called a "hidden" talent. After the age of about 13; I had never seemed to have found a use for it. That is, not until "the gang of four" made their elbows known on HBD..... The rare combination of spurious comments, a propensity for argumentation, and an absolute tenacity about never admitting error.... combined with that wonderful aspect of very little brewing experience outside of "doing what they always do" (a fact which is quite obvious to anyone who hasn't followed the exact same path)!..... and Hey Steve! You apparently just bring out the best in me! (snip continued) > he asked my if I > had a clue as to why beers with a lot of added "table sugar" tasted cidery. > Since quoting wars seem to be the vogue, I'll re-state the REAL question, and see if someone else might have the answer... I was always curious about why there seemed to be an obvious difference in taste between beers where sucrose (white, table sugar) were used, and those where it was not. I even flatter my much abused taste buds, that I can pick out a beer in which only the priming was done with sucrose (I call it a "metallic" or "artificial sweetener" taste), which is pretty low amounts of the total carbo load. In fact, it seems that standard "home brewing procedure" is to use "corn sugar" ((Glucose, dextrose, alpha-D glucose, grape sugar etc..... ahhh the names we give our little darlings), instead of "white sugar" whenever one thinks one needs to throw in some simple stuff, and many consider this a true "taste advantage". If this is truly the case (and I would be one who could easily believe it was); I sort of put out a public call (started on RCB) for two things: 1) Won't some homebrew club or "SOMEONE" simply prime a beer half with corn sugar, and half with table sugar and then "triangulate" it and see if I (and a lot of other folks) are just kidding myself (ourselves). I feel personally enough conviction in this question, that I'm not about to let sucrose anywhere near my beer, but I've never "proved" it. Naturally, with all the North American chatter, there wasn't a single body who would brew it.... and a quadrillion who could talk about it. A Dutchman on the other hand responded to the call.... his observations on both fermentation rate, and final flavour are quite interesting..... sorry, I won't share them here.... I really think it's time for some of you slackers to start brewing some stuff (BTW... if you want to repeat this simple little spurment, pull 5 percent off the weight of the sucrose lot, to match the glucose one.... happy to discuss "why" off line). 2) (and this is the big one) "WHY". May seem silly, but to put it in simple terms: "sucrose" (table sugar) is made up of two simple sugars glued together called glucose (our friend "corn sugar") and fructose (sometimes called "fruit sugar). Now it turns out that glucose and fructose are the exact same collection of atoms.... it's just sort of like glucose is hanging one leg outside the boat, and fructose is hanging two. Now to get weirder, we might say the "cornerstone" of all of what a yeast cell (and indeed ourselves when we aren't "breathing") is doing, is based on knocking apart glucose. And what's the first thing that they (and we) do with it?........ They jerk another leg out of the boat and turn it into fructose! So yeast, when fed sucrose do the following... they belch out an enzyme to knock the sucrose into glucose and fructose... take up these two simple sugars, the glucose gets turned into fructose and both of them head down the food factory chain..... And what happens if they get fed two glucose (corn sugar) molecules instead? They take them both up, they both get turned into fructose, and end up with the same fate. So the whole thing seems a bit paradoxical that there should be a percievable difference in taste, and I asked everyone who might have an answer: "why". Steve Alexander seemed to be a guy with access to a good "food science technology" library, and a lot of time on his hands.... so I asked him too. He did not have an answer, or could find one in the literature.... in fact if he is proposing a "low amino acid ratio" answer, he may not have understood the question. He did however absolutely refute (I know this may be hard to believe) One of the contributions that I thought most clever (from someone in Colorado as I recall).... that perhaps it is the belched out enzyme that breaks down sucrose (called "invertase") that is the foul tasting culprit. Steve reckoned that since Tofu is made up of large proteins and is pretty tasteless, and invertase is a big protein, that couldn't be the answer. Well, I guess it's back to the library for Steve..... but if anyone else has an answer or theory about this, I really am a pretty good listener.... maybe because it's more important for me to "find out" than it is to be "right" from the start. And if anyone would like to do the spurment, I'd certainly be happy to contribute the thoughts I've had on how to set it up, and even how one could go one step further and compare with wort priming. As to the "why", I've got a lot of conjecture on that, that has to do with rate limiting steps in metabolism, and substrate overload that pushes products down alternate pathways..... but it is just that.... conjecture. Sometimes it might be more important to find out just how significant a difference some steps make in brewing, before asking why, or inferring that there is a large difference because theoretically it should be. Dr. Pivo Return to table of contents
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