HOMEBREW Digest #3666 Fri 22 June 2001

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  Re: H2O2 and removing residue in bottles/carboys ("Jens Briesofsky")
  England/Scotland Pub Tours ("Nigel Porter")
  Re: Fruit Beers  Aaargh! (Matthew Comstock)
  O2 Flow v. Pressure (mohrstrom)
  Cleaning Carboys ("David Craft")
  Re: Counter Pressure Filling a Lager (Jeff Renner)
  Re: H2O2 and bleach (Matthew Comstock)
  Re: DO measurements (Demonick)
  Cherry beer for SWMBO (Beaverplt)
  Re: Water Analysis (Hubert Hanghofer)
  Mad River Jamaica Red Hops (Peter Torgrimson)
  Now that's a lunch break (Jeff Renner)

* * 2001 AHA NHC - 2001: A Beer Odyssey, Los Angeles, CA * June 20th-23rd See http://www.beerodyssey.com for more * information. Wear an HBD ID Badge to wear to the gig! * http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/shopping * * Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! * Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!! To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!** IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to the digest as we canoot reach you. We will not correct your address for the automation - that's your job. The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit. More information is available by sending the word "info" to req at hbd.org. JANITOR on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 06:35:17 +0100 From: "Jens Briesofsky" <bries at gmx.net> Subject: Re: H2O2 and removing residue in bottles/carboys Steven wrote: > With regards to H2O2 as an O2 source, what causes H2O2 to release the > additional oxygen atom??? 2H2O2 >> 2H2O + O2?? This is unfortunatly not the reaction that takes place. What happens is H2O2 -> H20 + O* H2O2 is an instable molecule that falls easily apart in water and a oxygen radical (a single oxgen atom, oxygen "in statu nascendi" it is called i belive). This is triggered solely by the presence of a suitable catalyst (a lot of organic matter triggers this). This oxygen radical is *VERY* reactive and reacts spontaneously with everything that has the tendency to oxydise, usually much quicker than it finds anonther O* so that the desireable O2 is created (O* + *O -> O-O = O2) This is the reason why H2O2 bleaches your hair (it destroys the melanin-pigment) and normal O2 in the air does not. If you put H2O2 in your wort I would suspect you get all sorts of fatty peroxides and oxydised hop oils and sugars and not so much dissolved oxygen. I regard that as a potential health risk and will no try it - but a perfect way to find out would be if one of you guys who can brew large batches makes a nice wort, splits it in two halves and oxygenates one as before and one with H2O2. Do a blind tasting. My bets for the better beer goes for the one without H2O2. Jens Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 08:50:59 +0100 From: "Nigel Porter" <nigel at sparger.co.uk> Subject: England/Scotland Pub Tours Jeff Wood asked about UK pubs etc. If you are staying in Olympia, that is very convienient for getting to the White Horse in Parsons Green - a damn fine real ale pub (plus assorted bottles of other fine European beers). Visit their website for details of where they are and how to get there. If you are planning a visit there, do mail me as it is fairly easy for me to get there from where I live. http://www.whitehorsesw6.com/ Also, Great British Beer Festival is 31 July - 4 August and staying in Olympia is the best place to be for it. If you are visiting GBBF drop a mail to the UK Homebrew List, as many of the people there will be going along or working. http://www.gbbf.org/2001/index4.htm Do have fun in the UK - the summer so far has been fairly dry and warm. It'll probably be pissing down by the time you get here though <g> Nigel Porter Guildford, Surrey, UK Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 04:54:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Comstock <mccomstock at yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Fruit Beers Aaargh! Neal, A lot of other folks might have brewed wonderful fruit beers. The worst beer I ever made was a chocolate raspberry stout. I still have two cases (minus the one bottle I tasted) left. I'm letting it mellow with age. Let me tell you it will take a while. The combination of stout, bitter chocolate and tangy raspberries were simply too much. I've sworn off fruit beers for life. But, I believe you are in a situation where you can't refuse to try. The term 'beer bullets' comes to mind.... If you boil the fruit you may run into problems. I think the established procedure for fruit additions is to add fruit just as you turn off the heat to the boil. Sitting around in near boiling wort is probably enough to destroy harmful microbes. I'd brew a darker beer so that if there IS haze you won't (or your wife won't) notice it. Have fun! Matt Comstock in Cincinnati, OH Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 08:46:29 -0400 From: mohrstrom at humphrey-products.com Subject: O2 Flow v. Pressure Ant Hayes asks: >>> Subject: Dissolving Oxygen I use a 1 micron air stone and pump oxygen at 3 litres per minute for 5 minutes in my 50 litre fermenter (stainless CCV - approx 60 litre volume) - Jeremy Wallis' RoT method. The regulator is meant for medical uses where I guess volume per minute is preferable to pressure. However, I don't know how to convert l/min to psi (or to kPa for that matter). <<< Without knowing the orifice size of the regulator ( the size of the internal "through hole"), flow won't convert directly to pressure, but I think that volume is more important here also. For those wanting to calibrate the flow at a given pressure setting for their regulator, I suggest inverting a water-filled one liter bottle in a bucket of water and bubble the O2 up into the bottle, displacing the water. If it takes 30 seconds, you've got 2l/min flow at that setting. Best accuracy would be gained at the same depth (and with the same liquid density, but hey ...) as the fermenter. Keep SWMBO happy by performing this 'spurment in the bathtub... BTW, 1 kPa = 0.145 psi Mark (longing to be in LA for the NHC) in Kalamazoo Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 08:50:10 -0400 From: "David Craft" <David-Craft at craftinsurance.com> Subject: Cleaning Carboys I usually put some PBW brand, powdered brewery wash, in the carboy and let it soak for about a week. It seems to get everything out....I wonder if TSP is about the same and would do the same for much less? Any ideas? David Craft Greensboro, NC Battleground Brewers Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 09:05:06 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net> Subject: Re: Counter Pressure Filling a Lager Ant Hayes <Ant.Hayes at FifthQuadrant.co.za> writes pf his problems cp bottling highly carbonated lagers and asks >Does anyone have any tips - would it help to chill the bottles? Yes, put those bottles in the freezer. The reason your PET bottles don't foam so badly is that they have very little heat capacity and so don't warm the beer very much. While you're at it, put the cp filler in the freezer as well. Cheers Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 07:07:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Comstock <mccomstock at yahoo.com> Subject: Re: H2O2 and bleach Steven Parfitt and others asked about H2O2 and bleach. H2O2 will oxidize beer (ingredients) before it gives off O2. The 2H2O2 -> 2H2O + O2 route of decomposition is best considered a self-oxidation (i.e. one mole of H2O2 oxidizes another mol of H2O2). If other stuff is around to oxidize (like wort), both types of oxidation will occur concurrently. So said everyone else already, but check out the website: http://h2o2.com/ The internet is cool. Bleach is sodium hypochlorite, NaOCl, in a basic lye (sodium hydroxide) solution. See 'What is bleach': http://www.clorox.com/science/rmp/how.html NaHCO3 is sodium bicarbonate = baking soda. See: http://users.rcn.com/sue.interport//food/bakgsoda.html Happy Brewing Matt Comstock in Cincinnati, OH Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 07:43:10 -0700 From: Demonick <demonick at zgi.com> Subject: Re: DO measurements "A.J. deLange" <ajdel at mindspring.com> stated: >Yes, I have done some DO measurements but I am presently far from home ... Below is A.J.'s post on the subject from Wed, 3 Jan 1996. I keep the really good ones :-) Note that the experient was done with 2.5 gallons in a 5 gallon carboy. This is why pure oxygen maintained a >100% DO level for over 22 hours. I think that the O2 in the 2.5 gallons of headspace represented a 500% DO level (air is about 20% O2) and once the sealed carboy equilibriated the wort would have contained something around 300% of atmospheric DO levels. - ----------------------------------------------- From: ajdel at interramp.com (A. J. deLange) Subject: Aeration/Crabtree/Lime/Freezing Point In #1926 Jim Hust asked if his wort might have been under aerated after a minute of sloshing: In a recent experiment I found the following levels of dissolved oxygen (relative to saturation) in 2.5 gal of water in a 5 gallon carboy (1) shaken VERY vigorously; (2) aerated with compressed air bubbled through an airstone with gentle swirling and (3) pure oxygen bubbled through an airstone with gentle swirling: Time Shaking Compressed Air Oxygen 1 minute 55% 40% 85% 2 70 62 145 3 75 75 - 4 80 82 5 82 90 6 84 92 8 87 98 D.O. level at time 0 was about 7% in all cases. Thus shaking the carboy for a short period of time is not terribly effective and the agitation must be quite violent. This is the reason the carboy was only filled half full. It would be impossible to agitate it violently enough if full. The key to getting oxygen to dissolve is tiny bubbles dispersed throughout. That is why the air stone is so effective. Note that the amount of O2 which will dissolve is a pretty strong function of temperature with saturation (100%) being about 8 mg/l at room temperature and close to 15 mg/l near freezing. Also note that it is quite possible to acheive and maintain >100% when using a carboy. If, in the course of oxygenation, the headspace becomes filled with oxygen and is then sealed off with a fermentation lock the amount of dissolved O2 will stay close to its value at the time the O2 was shut off. In the experiment which lead to the numbers above the DO level peaked at 14.2 mg/l (154% at 18.3C) and was found to be at 14.1 mg/l (158% at 20.2C) 22 hours later. If this is a concern, after aeration with pure oxygen, blow a stream of clean compressed air into the carboy after clear the O2. The DO level will then equilibrate with the O2 in the air and you will arrive at 100% fairly quickly. Note also that O2 is somewhat less soluble in concentrated worts than in water. For example, 20P wort equilibarates with the atmosphere at about 85% of the water saturation level. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 12:46:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Beaverplt <beaverplt at yahoo.com> Subject: Cherry beer for SWMBO Neal laments about brewing a fruit beer. I can lament along with you, sir, for my wife asked the same favor last winter. And as we all know with SWMBO a favor is a command. She wanted a cherry beer that had more "beer taste" than the New Glarus Belgian Red made in Wisconsin. I looked for a grain recipe but ended up doing the recipe for Feelix the cat dark cherry lager that I found on Cat's Meow. I used tart cherries and went the 5 lb for 5 gallon route. I went with frozen pitted cherries rather than pitting my own. It's been in the bottle now for 4 months and every one we've opened (I bottle conditioned for 2 months before the first one) has just gotten better according to her. It's not to my taste so I have only tasted it twice, but considering what she wanted I'd say that recipe hit the nail on the head. One other thing, if you don't like tart fruit use a sweeter cherry. WOW, 2 posts in two days. I'd better go practice lurking some more. ===== Jerry "Beaver" Pelt That's my story and I'm sticking to it Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 22:32:26 +0200 From: Hubert Hanghofer <hhanghof at netbeer.co.at> Subject: Re: Water Analysis Hi all, Larry Kress from Ontario wanted to know: > I got my well water analysis results. > Is my water good for brewing or how can I treat it? Larry, before you can think about using that water for brewing - or even drinking - you should clarify one important thing with your water supplier: > Nitrate Nitrogen...................... 14.00 PPM Are those 14ppm really specified as Nitrogen (N)? Because if so, that would mean your water actually has 62 ppm Nitrate (specified as NO3) and that's a lot - I can't believe that such high values are still permitted for drinking waters! The European community directive is 50mg/L (ppm - specified as NO3), that's IMO already a rather high limit, but the target values are <25ppm - especially if the water is to be used for infants. In brewing, more than 30ppm NO3 is considered problematic, because yeast reduces Nitrate to Nitrite (NO2) which in turn is toxic to yeast. According to Narziss, the resulting effects depend on the overall mineral content of the water. If it is soft (total salt content / dry matter < 100ppm) an inhibition of yeast growth and fermentation may already be observed at 20ppm NO3 whereas water with 1000ppm total mineral content and 50ppm NO3 may yield in normal fermentations. Unfortunately there is no easy or cheap way to remove excess Nitrate. Water suppliers nowadays use bioreactors, where the NO3 is removed by sessile microorganisms that utilize the NO3-Oxygen. Selective anion exchange filters or RO could be used at home - but that's expensive. Best way is to *start a revolution* and urge the suppliers or legislators to care for quality water! ...Nitrate sucks! Hope this helps Allzeit gut Sud! Hubert Hanghofer Salzburg, Austria www.netbeer.org Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 15:06:08 -0700 From: Peter Torgrimson <petertorgrimson at prodigy.net> Subject: Mad River Jamaica Red Hops Brent ("Echols, Brent" <BEchols at hineshort.com>) inquired about hops used in Mad River's Jamaica Red. My understanding is that the characteristic flavor comes from dry hopping with Chinook hops. I have tried this a couple of times and I like the result although I have never produced a real clone to Jamaica Red. I also have used Columbus hops as a dry hop and late-addition hop, and I recommend it. I believe North Coast's Red Seal Ale uses Columbus hops. Each of these high alpha acid hops has a very distinctive flavor profile when used for finishing. Peter Torgrimson Worts Of Wisdom Homebrewers Mountain View, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 20:13:29 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net> Subject: Now that's a lunch break Brewers Check out http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,510202,00.html Then someone alert M.A.D.D.! It seems that the Belgians are serving beer at school lunch! Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
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