HOMEBREW Digest #3676 Wed 04 July 2001

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  pH testing and reporting (Troy)
  Breiss bavarian wheat extract ("Peter Fantasia")
  re: conversion ("Houseman, David L")
  RE: Ya know? You gotta love 'em... (Tim  Burkhart)
  Calorie counters (Dave Burley)
  more info re: keg cooler at Home Depot (Ed Jones)
  Ya know? Ya gotta love 'em... ("Jim Bermingham")
  Re: Measuring Acid Additions (Martin_Brungard)
  Calories ("Dr. John")
  Re: Ya know? Ya gotta love 'em... ("Pannicke, Glen A.")
  mash pH vs. acidity ("mike karnowski")
  Re: Growing hops / Japanese Beetles (David Burki)
  Oxygenating/timing (RiedelD)
  Light & Dark Brown Sugar Stats (Alexander King)
  (OT) World Homebrew Contest & Boston Beer Co. ("Bissell, Todd S")
  Advanced Party Pig Questions ("Bissell, Todd S")
  Beer and Sweat 2001 ("Eric Tepe")
  Travelling with kegs (Mike.Szwaya)
  Caramel flavors (Kim Thomson)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 23:36:33 -0700 From: Troy <thager at jps.net> Subject: pH testing and reporting I second Wayne's statement that: " Bottom line, you need to test your pH level at different stages of every beer brewing session. Paper test strips can be used but a calibrated pH meter will produce much more accurate results. Having said all of this keep in mind you can brew very good beer without ever knowing anything about your water/mash/wort pH levels. But if you are trying to produce consistently good quality beer pH is important." I have just started to really understand the role that pH has in the various steps of the brewing process and I am wondering why monitoring your pH as a homebrewer is somewhat downplayed in the literature. From my recent research, one can manipulate the fermentables-to-unfermentables ratio in your wort by manipulating the pH. A lower pH will favor the betas and will produce a more fermentable wort and higher for the alphas. The exact optimum levels are clearly up for debate, but the general rule stands. Miller states that a high mash pH (5.7) favors AA and a less fermentable wort and conversly a low mash pH (5.3-5.4) favor a more fermentable wort. On the other hand, he also states: "BA works best at a low pH (around 5.0). But in the mash kettle, beta depends on alpha amylase. In practice trials, running the mash at a pH of 5.0 gives a less fermentable wort than using a somewhat higher value." This has *not* been my experience with my infusion mashes of 1hr or so. Jim Bush in his BT article in Sept. '97 states that BA's optimal range is 5.4-5.5 and AA is at 5.6-5.8. AJ in BT Nov/Dec '96 states ranges for BA at 5.1-5.3 and AA at 5.3-5.7. So it is clearly the case that changing the pH will favor one or the other. But, it seems in my readings, manipulation of the sacc. temps. (lower for the betas and more fementables and higher for the alphas and more dextrins) is mostly what is focused on in the hb literature- I feel that pH is equally important to monitor. In my case, I have tried manipulating the temps of my mashes from 150-160F and *always* have my beers ferment like mad and drop into the 1006-1010 range- producing very alcoholic beers. So, in my latest attempt to understand what is going on in my mash tun, I have been looking into this pH thing and have reallized that I have very acidic water (you have problably read my posts about my chalk and lime experiements) and have found that at mash temps my pH values are at around 5.0. I am therefore giving those betas a big head start to whittle all those long chains into lots of fermentables. So, it seems that in my experience, pH is actually more important a variable to monitor than temperature since with my water, even a mash of 159F still produces a very fermentable wort. My second point has been hashed over many times here - and that is the absolute necessity of stating what TEMPERATURE your pH values are taken. This drives me absolutley crazy and creates so much confusion, especially I feel with the less experience brewers out there. The bottom line: Optimum pH Range at Mash Temp (150F): 5.3-5.6 Optimum pH Range at Room Temp (68F): 5.5-5.9 (some say a difference of 0.2 some say 0.3) and, of course, Optimum pH Range (*at mash temps*) for alpha amylase and a less fermentable wort: somewhere in the 5.5-5.8 range Optimum pH Range (*at mash temps*) for beta amylase and a more fermentable wort: somewhere in the 5.1-5.4 range -Troy Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 08:09:42 -0400 From: "Peter Fantasia" <fantasiapeter at hotmail.com> Subject: Breiss bavarian wheat extract Tim asked about 'caramel flavor' in his wheat beer. I have used this extract in years past. If you want a true to style wheat beer leave out the caravienne. I don't know if your using the dry extract but forget about the liquids. All too dark. Pitch your chosen yeast at 65f and hold it at 70 or below and good luck. Pete sippin a Wheat in the luvly pines of S. Jersey Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 07:32:12 -0500 From: "Houseman, David L" <David.Houseman at unisys.com> Subject: re: conversion Steve says: "To put that in perspective you're probably in much better shape wrt to enzyme complement at pH 5 .0 or pH 6.0 than you are when brewing a 50% wheat beer (with only half the enzymes)." I presume you mean unmalted wheat beer (Wit for example) since malted wheat has plenty of enzymes for conversion itself; correct? Dave Houseman Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 07:22:26 -0500 From: Tim Burkhart <tburkhart at dridesign.com> Subject: RE: Ya know? You gotta love 'em... >>What do YOU have? Cheer 'em on! Boulevard Brewing Co. (One for the home team, Yay!) Pony Express Brewing Co. (Two for the home team, Yay!) New Belgium Brewing Co. (One for the mountain states, Yay!) Sam Adams (One for the atlantic states,Yay!) Damn, I'm missing the pacific states... guess I'll be visiting the liquor store tonight for some Rogue Ales (Yay!) Tim Burkhart Kansas City Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 08:47:29 -0400 From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley at compuserve.com> Subject: Calorie counters Brewsters: Randy Ricchi ponders how two beers can have the same starting OG and different FG and end up with a different calorie content. Randy you forgot that the different FGs mean there is more unfermented stuff in the higher FG one and therefore more calories in the form of dextrins and unfermented sugars. The difference in the two is the amount of CO2 that went up the stack and the energy the yeast absorbed during their growth cycle before they left the scene as a precipitate. CO2 represents about half of the carbon in the fermented sugars and therefore represents substantial material and energy loss from the fermenter. If you're going to use thermodynamics as a part of your reasoning, be careful how you define your system. If you include the CO2, water vapor evaporation, yeast and other stuff that left the scene you will find the total energy content of both systems with the same OG is the same. - -------------------------------------------------- Dextrins being long chain sugars should have the same approximate calorie content per gram as glucose when metabolized. - -------------------------------------------------- Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 07:59:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Ed Jones <ejones at sdl.psych.wright.edu> Subject: more info re: keg cooler at Home Depot I returned to Home Depot after my last post to order the keg cooler my local store was advertizing for $399. This time I talked with the department manager. It turns out he and some of the other local managers decided they could sell the Danby keg cooler for a nice profit. The young lady that had told me she could order the keg coolers was mistaken. The local stores quit selling the coolers and marked them way down to move them quickly because a VP of the Home Depot chain decided it was against their "moral code of ethics" to sell a draft beer system. So, the Home Depot stores in central ohio will not be selling these anymore. It was my mistaken assumption that these were offered at all Home Depot stores and that is not true. They were purchased for our local stores. That said, it may still be possible for the department manager for appliances to order them from his/her wholesale catalogs. It may be worth asking them. On a positive note, I got the last one they had for $399! Sorry for the confusion and for getting anyone's hopes up :-( - -- Ed Jones "When I was sufficiently recovered to be permitted to take nourishment, I felt the most extraordinary desire for a glass of Guinness...I am confident that it contributed more than anything else to my recovery." - written by a wounded officer after Battle of Waterloo, 1815 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 08:05:04 -0500 (Central Daylight Time) From: "Jim Bermingham" <bermingham at antennaproducts.com> Subject: Ya know? Ya gotta love 'em... Pat wanted us to cheer on our favorite American Commerical Breweries. Being a fan of New Belgium Brewery I have the following in my "Beer Box" for the holidays: Fat Tire, Blue Paddle, Trippel & Saison. Being from Texas I have Shiner Bock. Jim Bermingham Millsap, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 09:19:48 -0400 From: Martin_Brungard at urscorp.com Subject: Re: Measuring Acid Additions Ant Hayes asked about measuring acid additions and Jeff Renner gave a good response in recommending a syringe. I suggest that another measuring device is more available and durable...use a graduated medicine dropper. I find this item in any US drugstore, many times around the infant supplies. I bought a 2-pack of polyethylene medicine droppers for several dollars and have used them for a year or two now. I'm pretty sure these will last me for at least a few more years. The droppers I use, have graduation markings in CC's and fractional teaspoon measures, up to 1 tsp total. The other thing I recommend is to perform a titration test on your local brewing water. Acidify a known quantity of water stepwise by adding drops of acid and measuring the resulting pH. Plot the number of drops per liter (or gallon) of water versus the resulting pH. I have found this relationship very helpful in deciphering how much acid I should be adding to my sparge water. This also gives you an idea of how much acid to add to the mash tun, but the grain bill also influences that result, so be careful. Another thing to do is to check how many drops per CC (or tsp) you get from your dropper. That makes it easy to perform large calculated additions instead of adding acid drop by drop. Martin Brungard Tallahassee, FL Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 08:27:38 -0500 From: "Dr. John" <drjohn17 at home.com> Subject: Calories Randy Ricchi <rricchi at ccisd.k12.mi.us> writes.... <RR> I remember seeing a calorie chart in Zymurgy quite awhile back. One thing I noticed was that two beers with the same starting gravity but different ending gravities would end up with different calorie contents. <RR> This is puzzling to me. Since energy can be neither created nor destroyed, and since the original gravity is the same for both beers (same potential energy), you would (or at least I would) think that they would have the same calorie content, regardless of ending gravity. A lower final gravity would mean more calories from alcohol and less from unfermented sugars & dextrins, and vice-versa. Can anyone explain why this is not the case? I'll take a stab at it. Fermentation produces heat and therefore burns calories. So the beer with the lower final gravity had a lower calorie content, right? I guess the yeast are burning a few calories when they are converting those sugars. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 10:33:09 -0400 From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke at merck.com> Subject: Re: Ya know? Ya gotta love 'em... Pat wrote: >Let's count 'em off, and cheer them on! Buying their beer is >another means of supporting those who support you, too (though >sorta indirectly...)! > >At this moment, in my beer fridge, I have... >What do YOU have? Cheer 'em on! A six pack of Sierra Nevada Pale Ale (emergency beer - required) A few cans of Old Milwaukee (for Dad and carboy rinsing) Bad homebrewer?!? Go sit in the corner?!? I'm pretty much a die-hard homebrewer. I've got a keg of Stout, keg of American Pale Ale, keg of Weizen, 2 cases of barleywine (aging) and 2 cases of kriek (aging). I've got enough beer, right? What do I need commercial beer for? Then I thought about something Pat didn't come right out and say. If it weren't for commercial breweries like Guinness, Sierra Nevada, Hacker-Pschorr, Sam Adams and Lindemanns, what would have been the motivation behind what is currenlty in my fridge and cellar? Guess it's time for a trip to the store. Tomorrow I can hang my Colonial flag and sit on the porch while watching the parade and soaking in some American beer style research! Carpe cerevisiae! Glen A. Pannicke glen at pannicke.net http://www.pannicke.net 75CE 0DED 59E1 55AB 830F 214D 17D7 192D 8384 00DD "I have made this letter longer than usual, because I lack the time to make it short." - Blaise Pascal Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 09:39:47 -0500 From: "mike karnowski" <djpotpie at hotmail.com> Subject: mash pH vs. acidity Is the pH of the mash the same as the acidity of the mash? the reason I ask is I have screwed up 2 different 10 gallon batches of Berliner weiss in the last 2 days. Here's the low down: 1st batch: 6 lbs. German Suaermalt and 6 lbs. German Wheat mash:132 (20 min) 145 (20 min) 158 (20 min). The pH of my mash was 5.1 (my tap water is 9.7 !) but the mash tasted very sour. The mash gummed up horribly and would not convert. I blamed it on not doing a beta glucan rest (at least the gummy part of the problem) so the next day I tried again: 2nd batch: 4 lbs. Sauermalt, 4 lbs German Wheat and 4 lbs. Domestic 2-row (hoping the extra enzymes would help) mash pH 5.6: 104 (20 min) 122 (20 min) 145 (20 min) 156 (2 hours !) this time the mash didn't gel up as much but never did convert completely. I am assuming that the acidity of the mash is inhibiting enzyme activity even though the pH is perfect. Any input? I do know that a true Berliner Weiss is soured by lacto bacteria but I was trying to make it easy (HA!). I did get 6 gallons of wort (after adding a pound of wheat dry malt) of O.G. 1.030 but it still showed positive starch post boil. Does starch give a gravity reading? I ask because the beer seems to have finished fermenting at F.G. 1.015. Thanks in advance for any wisdom. Mike "Elvis" Karnowski New Orleans LA djpotpie at yahoo.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 08:41:12 -0700 (PDT) From: David Burki <soccer_ref8 at yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Growing hops / Japanese Beetles Anyone ever try preying mantis as an insect control method? Do a web search to locate a mail order supplier. db Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 13:57:01 -0400 From: RiedelD at pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca Subject: Oxygenating/timing A quick data point to pass on: I made a generic batch of wheat ale on Sunday in which I oxygenated at about 6 hrs after pitching. (Recall recent discussions of when is the optimal time to add O2) This ferment appears to be the most healthy of any beer I have ever made. The rate (as judged be the airlock activity) was nearly peaking by about 6 hrs after the O2 addition. So, FWIW, seems like a little delay in oxygenation may be helpful. Of course I haven't tasted the results yet... cheers, Dave Riedel Victoria, Can. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 12:20:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Alexander King <ralexanderking at yahoo.com> Subject: Light & Dark Brown Sugar Stats I was wondering if anyone out there has the stats for dark and light brown sugar. I use ProMash software and would like to have some meaningful info (Potential SG and SRM) for these ingredients. I appreciate any info you all can provide. Cheers! Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 15:49:14 -0700 From: "Bissell, Todd S" <tbissell at spawar.navy.mil> Subject: (OT) World Homebrew Contest & Boston Beer Co. Hi all: I was going through some older issues of Brew Your Own (circa `96), and came across an advertisement for Longshot Hazelnut Brown Ale, winner of "The World Homebrew Contest" of 1996. This contest was apparently sponsored by The Boston Beer Company, and produced and marketed a certain number of cases of the winner's homebrew, for distribution nation-wide. Anyone know the details of this...? I'm just curious how long it lasted, and when/why Boston Beer did away with the program..... Cheers! Todd S. Bissell Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 15:52:21 -0700 From: "Bissell, Todd S" <tbissell at spawar.navy.mil> Subject: Advanced Party Pig Questions I know this has to be "Dead Horse, Old Hat" territory, but I really would like to know that the final consensus on the Party Pig system from Quoin (sp?). From my searches of the HBD.org archives, here's basically what I've found so far: Pros: Simple, easy to store 2.5 gallons, easy to carry, small enough for any fridge, works as advertised, a viable solution for folks who want to keg, but don't have the room/means for a Corny setup, etc. Cons: The inflation bag and hand-pump can be tricky/annoying/PITA to use, same goes for the gasket mechanism, 2-4$ per inflation bag not cost-efficient, unable to use the dishwasher to sanitize, etc. Having said all that, I am still leaning towards purchasing one, for no other reason than my Milds and Bitters will never taste truly authentic coming out of a 22-oz bottle (IMHO). Besides, who the heck enjoys bottling, anyway....? So, to save bandwidth, I'll get straight to the point, with two "advanced" Party Pig questions. (1): Anybody try out the Pig Snout, from www.steinfillers.com...? It does away with the cheap looking hand-pump and inflation pouch, and allows a standard ball lock CO2 connection. Good/bad experience, or just a PITA for "only" 2.5 gallons....? And (2): Anybody dry-hop in a Party Pig...? Good/bad results...? Like I said, I know this thread has been hashed out *many* times before, but need to get a feel for what the current public opinion of these things are before making any decisions. Thanks! Cheer! Todd S. Bissell Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 19:52:02 -0400 From: "Eric Tepe" <erictepe at fuse.net> Subject: Beer and Sweat 2001 The bitters are coming! The bitters are coming!! Actually, I believe it was the British if I remember my history correctly. There will be more than bitters, there will be Pale Ales, Stouts, Belgians and beers aplenty at Beer and Sweat 2001- The nations original keg only homebrew competition. The competition date is August 18th and it is rapidly approaching. All kegs can be entered (no 2-liters will be accepted this year) and it is cheap, only $5 for the first entry and $3 for each additional entry. This is an AHA/ BJCP competition and last year we had almost 100 kegs of homebrew and are expecting more this year. Please check out our web site at www.hbd.org\bloat. You can also register your beers and to be a judge online as well. The event is being held at the Ramada Inn in Florence, KY and rooms can be had for $65. If you are going to sample some beers- I would stay as Ky has a 0.08 DUI level and $65 is a lot less than the lawyer, fines and the 48hrs in jail should you get a DUI. Taxies or designated drivers are always an option. This is one of the best regional homebrew events in the Midwest and is always a great time. If you have any questions just e-mail me at erictepe at fuse.net. See you there!! Eric Tepe Beer and Sweat Organizer Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 16:58:48 -0700 From: Mike.Szwaya at co.clark.wa.us Subject: Travelling with kegs Happy 4th everyone. I've got a question on travelling with kegs. Has anyone had any experience with airplane travel with kegs? Not so much corny kegs but 1/4 or 1/2 bbl sankey ones. I'm wondering how breweries that go to festivals, etc. get their kegs there. I guess there would be issues with weight, like an additional weight surcharge. And then there's the whole pressurized vessel issue. Would there be any legal, transporting-alcohol problems with going from, say, Oregon to Maine? Didn't see much discussion on this in the archives so I thought I'd just ask. Thanks. Mike Szwaya Portland, OR Email: Mike.Szwaya at co.clark.wa.us "We have found out...that we cannot trust some people who are nonconformists. We will make conformists out of them in a hurry...The organization cannot trust the individual; the individual must trust the organization" - Ray Kroc Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 22:23:35 -0500 From: Kim Thomson <alabrew at mindspring.com> Subject: Caramel flavors Tim Burkhart asks about "caramel" flavors and dark color to his wheat beer and for other thoughts? I wouldn't expect 4 oz. of caravienna to give overpowering caramel flavors. We encourage the "reverse method" for extract beers - steep the grains, boil the hops and then add the extract at the last 10 min. of the boil rather than boiling it for 45 - 60 min. Boiling the extract for long periods of time darken and carmelize it (though not as much when you do a full wort boil) this method has greatly improved extract beers and the extract brews are now beating all-grain beers in the local club contests (much to the distain of the all-grainers ;-} ). - -- Kim and Sun Ae Thomson ALABREW Homebrewing Supplies 8916 A Parkway East Birmingham, AL 35206 (205) 833-1716 http://www.mindspring.com/~alabrew mailto:alabrew at mindspring.com Beer and Wine Making Ingredients and Supplies Return to table of contents
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