HOMEBREW Digest #3686 Tue 17 July 2001

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  re: Mash Temp/Thickness Vs. Fermentability ("Stephen Alexander")
  Re: Fermenter 'geometry' ... pH ("Stephen Alexander")
  Freezer Conversion ("D. Schultz")
  Krausening ("Colby Fry")
  Pump. . . ("Galloway")
  honey in beer (Alan McKay)
  mmmmm, fruit mead ... (Alan McKay)
  UPS Shipping of Alcoholic beverages ("Frank J. Russo")
  Re: Evaporation Rate (Demonick)
  Winter Welcome Ale (Greg Remake)
  Gas Filtration/Malt Descriptions (Richard Foote)
  You Knew This Was Coming--Freezer Conversion Questions (Richard Foote)
  Thermometer Issues Redux ("Jeff Tonole")
  transgender hops ("Karen Ekstrom & Gunnar Emilsson")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 01:14:55 -0400 From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: re: Mash Temp/Thickness Vs. Fermentability Peter Fantasia reposts the tabular data in different units, but ... the temps quoted in M&BS are 140F, 150F, and 155F (not 154F). Temps are close but the grist thicknesses aren't right. The original spec is in grist weight per 100 units of water (67, 39, 29) which relates to about <22, 13, and 9.6> oz/qt and not > 39 oz/qt. 23 oz/qt 17 For US HBers the more familiar measure of about < 0.73, 1.23, and 1.67> qt/lb should be compared. In other words the '67' thickness mash is extremely thick. The 39 mash is very typical and the 29 mash is pretty far on the thin end for an ale mash. Thanks for John Schnupp for re-typesetting the table. -S Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 02:04:29 -0400 From: "Stephen Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: Fermenter 'geometry' ... pH Jeff Renner asks the obvious question .... > The only remarkable differences I see are in pH; the half filled > corney had lower pH than the other two at the middle of fermentation: > ><4.070, 4.068, 4.009>. > > and the three were more or less equally separated in pH at the end: >>pH readings were < 4.057, 4.028, 3.998 >. > Any ideas why? My WAG is the half filled corny fermented out a tiny bit faster and harder. It appeared that way, but no supporting data exists. Why ? I can't say. I didn't expect it. >Was it that when you topped all three with CO2, it > had more CO2 to dissolve as carbonic acid? That would seem to have > only a transient effect once fermentation took over. Ant Hayes speculated the same in an offline note. I don't think this explanation is compelling. We'd expect the CO2 is 'seeking' equilibrium with the 1atm of CO2 in the headspace. CO2 exceeds the partial pressure 1atm CO2 in the head thru most of fermentation. I'd expect the half filled larger relatively larger surface area fermenter to approach equilibrium faster (less CO2, higher pH). That wasn't the case. The CO2 might reduce initial pH and help fermentation (but the CO2 itself hurts) but this is clutching at straws. Your Fats Waller quote is perhaps best explanation of this small pH difference. Generally yeast produce organic acids (and carbonic) which drop the pH as the fermentation proceeds. It's a nice parameter to measure because it's quick and takes only a few ml. I have a NIST traceable hydrometer that's about 30 inches long and about a liter and a lot of nuisance degassing the beer to use properly. pH is really is a fine way to track your fermentations. The pH range extrema in these three samples varied from (4.070 to 3.998) and represents hydronium ion concentration of 85.1uMol to 100.5 uMol. or about a 15microMolar difference. That's pretty small. Moleson vs Michelob have more that 10 times the pH difference as beers from my experiment. Each yeast cell (assuming nominal final cell counts) cell would need to generate about one extra ion for every 25000 sugar molecules fermented to account for this difference. The difference is interesting, probably has a cause (not just random fluctuation or measurement error). You'd need more experiments to hone in on the cause. If you'd like to declare that half-filled corny fermenters are marginally superior to carboys and filled cornies I've nothing to refute it. -Steve Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 00:55:55 -0700 From: "D. Schultz" <d2schultz at qwest.net> Subject: Freezer Conversion Yee Haw! That is one sweet freezer conversion. Bob, will your buddy be able to keep those pictures up on that site? If not, I would be glad to permanently add them to my site. BTW, where do I get one of those Bad Frog Handles? I'll trade a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale and a Pilsner Urquel ceramic handle for that bad boy (or should I say Frog?). Burp, -Dan Schultz >From: "bsmnt" <bsmntbrewr at home.com> >Subject: One heck of a chest freezer conversion > >Brewers, > >One of our club members was inspired by Dan Shultz's web >site on his chest freezer conversion. <snip> Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 08:17:20 -0400 From: "Colby Fry" <colbyfry at pa.net> Subject: Krausening I am getting ready to lager a doppelbock for a couple of months and the recipe calls for it to be krausened for carbonation. I am supposed to make a Vienna 12 Plato and add Wyeast Bavarian Lager. After 1 day I am to mix it with the Doppelbock, bottle and Lager for a couple months. I am wondering exactly how to do this. I've read extensively on this, but the articles are vague. (both of dave millers books, homebrewers companion, etc...)Should I siphon the Vienna into the bottling bucket? Should I carefully pour the Vienna into the bucket and then add the Doppelbock? Not sure what has to take place for this to work. Never did it before, but it seems fun. Hopefully someone knows what I am talking about. Also, if anyone has seen any articles or sections of books that cover this in full, let me know. The recipe that I am using comes from the "Secrets from the Master Brewers" Page 142, I think. Ray McNeill's doppelbock recipe.Thank you. I appreciate any response public or personal. Colby Fry colbyfry at pa.net Roxbury, Pa Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 08:12:13 -0400 From: "Galloway" <galloway at gtcom.net> Subject: Pump. . . A query for the Collective, While looking for a faucet connection in the local Wal-Mart ( the dreaded honey-do list. Can you feel my pain??) I saw one of those pumps that you can attach to a hand drill. It says that the interior construction is of stainless steel w/ a plastic impeller/blade. Can this be considered for moving boiled wort from place to place?? Something like this could make life a whole lot easier. Transferring AND aeration in one fell swoop, be still my heart. The hardest part would be adapting some connections and food grade hoses to serve as influent and effluent lines for the pump. Any suggestions for that?? Regards, Dave Galloway Chattahoochee, FL Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 08:47:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Alan McKay <amckay at ottawa.com> Subject: honey in beer Rob Dewhirst asks about raw honey in beer. Rob, you do not mention, but I assume your concern is preserving the flavour and aroma of the honey, ne c'est pas? I would personally be very, very reluctant to use sulphites in my beer. Yuck! Don't do it! What you can do if you want to presever the honey flavour and aroma is add it to the boil as soon as you shut off the heat at the end. Stir in the honey and that will be plenty of time to destroy any nasties you may be worried about, but will not boil off flavour nor aroma. In fact, honey apparantly contains natural "de-nastifiers" so you could probably just add raw honey to the secondary without further processing, if you really wanted to. I've heard of lots of people who do that with no problems, though personally I use the above technique. cheers, -Alan - -- "Brewers make wort. Yeast Makes Beer." - Dave Miller's Homebrewing Guide http://www.bodensatz.com/ What's a Bodensatz? http://www.bodensatz.com/bodensatz.html Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 08:53:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Alan McKay <amckay at ottawa.com> Subject: mmmmm, fruit mead ... David, I've got lots of experience with fruit in mead (or "mel-o-mel" as it is called), but I rarely try to measure the OG. I think it is much more fun to estimate the alcohol content when the mead is ready by seeing how many glasses it takes to put you on your *ss ;-) Usually not very many, so I estimate most of my meads (mel-o-mels) are in the 12% to 15% by volume range. BTW, here's how I do it : http://www.bodensatz.com/homebrew/recipes/mead/ I made two batches of Raspberry Mead (I generally don't use the word "mel-o-mel" - too long and pretentious sounding) on Saturday. I plan to make a strawberry this coming weekend, and perhaps a blueberry soon, too. cheers, -Alan - -- "Brewers make wort. Yeast Makes Beer." - Dave Miller's Homebrewing Guide http://www.bodensatz.com/ What's a Bodensatz? http://www.bodensatz.com/bodensatz.html Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 09:36:10 -0400 From: "Frank J. Russo" <fjrusso at coastalnet.com> Subject: UPS Shipping of Alcoholic beverages There has been numerous posting concerning the use of UPS and shipping beer. I decided to go to the horses mouth and get the word. Here is what they told me: Frank ATF Home Brew Club New Bern, NC - -----Original Message----- From: customer.service at ups.com [mailto:customer.service at ups.com] Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 10:00 PM To: fjrusso at coastalnet.com Subject: UT20010712_0000004073 Questions Thank you for your inquiry. UPS service for packages containing alcoholic beverages is provided only where permitted by state law and under certain conditions. Alcoholic Beverages (Beer, Wine) cannot be shipped via the UPS Customer Counter, One Time Pickup or On Call Air service. Intrastate (within the state) transportation is allowed in the following states: California Illinois Iowa New York Oregon Virginia Wisconsin District of Columbia Michigan Ohio Rhode Island Washington Wyoming Some states have enacted "reciprocity" legislation with respect to delivery of shipments containing wine. The states listed below have passed such legislation and UPS currently transports wine among these states on an interstate basis: Interstate (between states) transportation is allowed between the following states: California Nebraska Colorado New Mexico Idaho Oregon Illinois Washington Iowa Missouri Wisconsin All shipments containing wine, must be labeled by the shipper with the UPS supplied "Adult Signature Required" sticker on each package and packaged properly. No hard alcohol is accepted by UPS for shipment. Please review our package guidelines at the following link: http://www.ups.com/using/services/packaging/pkg-guide.html If we may assist you in the future, please feel free to contact us. Thank you for using UPS Internet Services. Dyana Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 07:42:38 -0700 From: Demonick <demonick at zgi.com> Subject: Re: Evaporation Rate >Can someone give me a ballpark evaporation rate for ~ 13 gallons of >sweet liquor using a converted 1/2 bbl keg as a boiler and a 170K BTU >propane burner turned up all the way? With my 10 gallon stainless kettle on a Metal Fusion 150 BTU cajun cooker my evaporation rate is a bit over 1 gallon per hour. Domenick Seattle, WA Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 10:43:30 -0500 From: Greg Remake <gremake at gsbpop.uchicago.edu> Subject: Winter Welcome Ale Hello all, A retailer near my sister's home often offers old inventory at bargain prices. This past weekend I gambled $3 on a four-pack of Samuel Smith's Winter Welcome, of the '98/'99 vintage. In spite of the clear bottles and about three years of age, this beer blew me away and humbled me as a home brewer. Perhaps what most impressed me was the explosive malty aroma and flavor, full of rich character that I am incapable of adequately describing. I'm wondering how Samuel Smith brewers achieve this kind of awesome aroma and flavor. I know these seasonal recipes often include some special spices, but I can't detect anything unusual, and this version was surprisingly lacking in hops character. Perhaps someone can suggest a grain bill for this recipe. Maybe a specialty crystal or toasted malt is the key? Or is it the Yorkshire Squares fermentation system and the house yeast that are required? Although their website explains in some detail the fermentation system, I didn't quite understand it and don't hope to emulate the process, but maybe with a similar grist I might be able to achieve a respectable home brewed version. Just in case I can't, I drove back and bought several $15 cases to keep reminding me of the goal. Cheers! Greg Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 13:47:50 -0400 From: Richard Foote <rfoote at mindspring.com> Subject: Gas Filtration/Malt Descriptions Brewers, Who writes this stuff for Briess? >I haven't, but another candidate is Briess' Extra Special Malt. From >http://www.briess.com/Products/es.htm : >-0-0-0-0-0-0- >TYPICAL ANALYTICAL >SPECIFICATIONS: Moisture 6.0 % >Color* 125-135 L >Flavor raisins, slight chocolate <snip>>* The bread-like, raisiny, and slight chocolate flavors and >aroma from Extra Special Malt are ideal for any beer style. Like a CAP? Gas Filtration: I used to have one of these that I used with an aquarium pump until I wore it out. It was given to me. Pricey though. Ten for $83.00! Check it out at: http://www.millipore.com/catalogue.nsf/docs/slfg05010?open&lang=en I'm sure this URL got cut. Copy and paste the whole thing into your browser and go. Hope this helps. Rick Foote Whistle Pig Brewing Murrayville, GA Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 13:59:35 -0400 From: Richard Foote <rfoote at mindspring.com> Subject: You Knew This Was Coming--Freezer Conversion Questions Bob Bratcher! You got yer ears on? I tried a personal query to you but got rejected--apparently address was "fatally flawed". Bob, Gotta have more info. on that freezer conversion. I've been planning one for some time. What's with the two lids w/handles on the top? Do they lift off so you don't need to open the lid? What size freezer is it? Must have more info... Must have more info... Must have more info... TIA, Rick Foote Whistle Pig Brewing Murrayville, GA Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 19:19:48 -0400 From: "Jeff Tonole" <jefftonole at toast.net> Subject: Thermometer Issues Redux Thanks to Marc Sedam, Chris Hatton, Pete Czerpak, and RJ for responding to my question about low starting gravities from (unintentionally) low mash temps. My latest batch had the double whammy: (1) a low mash temp of around 140F thanks to an inaccurate thermometer, and (2) a poor grain crush from my local homebrew supplier (my first time buying grains there). The result -- a pale ale with an expected gravity of 1.052 came in at 1.029! (By the way, the Safale yeast I used fermented the wort from 1.029 to 1.006 in about 24 hours. Colored hop-water, anyone?) A calibrated thermometer and a soon-to-be purchased grain mill should get brewing activity back to normal at SlothBrew. Then it will be time to look into chest freezers... FWIW, I typically mash for 70-75 minutes (sometimes a bit longer) and I have never tested for conversion. I try to get a handle on all the variables (grain crush, water-to-grist ratio, mash temps, etc.) and let the conversion take care of itself. And this experience should make it easier to troubleshoot in the future when conversion DOESN'T take care of itself. Long live the HBD... jeff tonole SlothBrew Adrift in the universe but currently living in Ithaca, NY Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 17:58:10 -0600 From: "Karen Ekstrom & Gunnar Emilsson" <doggydave at uswest.net> Subject: transgender hops Hi to all, I am a long time lurker, who has benefitted greatly from the knowledge shared on this digest. That said, a perplexing problem came up today that has me baffled. I am hoping someone has had similar experiences, and can recommend a solution. I have been growing hops for several years. Cascade was planted around 1993, and Hallertau, Tettnang, and Saaz were added around 1996. Cascade has remained my dominant producer, yielding about 0.5 to 1 lb of dried hops each year, while the German hops usually yield 2 to 4 ounces each. My wife and I grow the hops on bamboo poles lashed together that are about 10-15 feet high. Each year, we trim the hops back when they come up in April to 2-3 primary shoots. They usually begin flowering in August, and harvest time is typically around mid September. (the latitude here is about 46 degrees, I have no idea where that is in Rennerian). This year my hops began flowering in June! First it was Saaz, which has always been the earliest of the four. The others began flowering recently. We have been experiencing strong thunderstorms in the northern Rocky Mountains as of late, and some of our bamboo poles have become loose. Today when we went to tie them back up, I examined the flowers on Tettnang, and to my horror, saw that they were male! I examined the other plants, and found that Cascade and Hallertau also have switched sexes and are now sporting male flowers! Only Saaz remains female, producing hop cones. Interestingly, the male plants are also dropping "runner" -like shoots from the upper flowering sections, which are absent from female Saaz. Has any other hop growers experienced such a phenomena? If so, does anyone know how to switch them back? Should I rip 'em up this fall and plant new plants? Years ago in the 70s when I was in college, I grew a related plant in my closet that would turn "male" when stressed from such factors like lack of water, but this year the hops have had a pretty typical growing season thus far and have always had plenty of water. In fact, I would say they have had their best growing season yet - I was looking forward to the potential of two harvests, which I may still get out of Saaz. Anyhow, I would appreciate to hear from anyone who has had similar experiences. Gunnar Emilsson Helena, Montana Return to table of contents
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