HOMEBREW Digest #3719 Mon 27 August 2001

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  Re: Agave Mead (Svlnroozls)
  Hop Imports (Brad McMahon)
  Cold room problem (John Wilkinson)
  Unnecessary Attack (Len Safhay)
  Oat Hulls? (And Kegging Follow-up) ("Bissell, Todd S")
  Gypsum and pH ("A.J. deLange")
  RE: Big Rims (Tombrau)
  Beer In Southern Illinois? (Matt Wehland)
  BJCP Exam Schedule ("Dave Sapsis")
  Re: Great British Beer Festival (Bill Riel)
  Re: Fest with 100-odd real ales . . . (Bill Riel)
  Enzyme killer?  Or not.... (Bill Tobler)
  rye-pils,..beta glucans (leavitdg)
  Agave Mead (Denis Bekaert)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 01:20:50 EDT From: Svlnroozls at aol.com Subject: Re: Agave Mead .>> hmmm 5 pounds of honey, 3 pounds of agave nectar, some yeast and budda bing budda bang... Agave Mead... Anyone try it??? Thoughts??? Is it good?? -Scott<< We've had some great success with agave nectar in mead with several members of the Maltose Falcons. First I heard of anyone doing such a thing, he won best of show with it in our Mayfaire Competition. That recipe is posted in the recipe section of www.maltosefalcons.com. Also, large quantities of a similar beverage were brewed up for the recent AHA conference in L.A. where it was quite well-recieved. Certainly this can be groovy stuff. Give 'er a go. Cullen Davis Maltose Falcons Home Brewing Society Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 14:54:37 +0930 (CST) From: Brad McMahon <brad at rommel.apana.org.au> Subject: Hop Imports Phil Yates wrote: > Steve > > I look forward to receiving your hops. http://www.aqis.gov.au/icon/asp/ex_casecontent.asp? intNodeId=311212&intCommodityId=669&Types=none& WhichQuery=Go+to+full+text (split to fit into 80 columns, please concatenate) So will AQIS Biosecurity division. It is against the law to import dried whole hops into Australia. Condition C5217 Non-Commercial Dried, unprocessed hops found in products like homebrew kits are prohibited. If the hops are actually hop extracts or pellets then the products may be released. - -- Brad McMahon APANA(SA) Aldgate, S.Aust. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 06:08:39 -0500 From: John Wilkinson <jandjwilkins at earthlink.net> Subject: Cold room problem I have been putting together a brew house using a 14X28 storage building. One end, about 7 feet, is walled off to form a cold room. The walls are double with two layers of R13 insulation. The attic has blown in insulation and the floor has R19 insulation. I used vapor barrier insulation in the walls and floor and additionally have plastic sheet under the floor insulation to hold it in and perhaps provide more vapor barrier. The floor is plywood with heavy commercial tile on it. The walls are "green rock" gypsum board with bathroom type slick wall board glued to that. The seams are caulked and the edge against the floor is caulked. The ceiling is a layer of ceiling tiles stapled to furring strips with a layer of 1/4 inch plywood on top of that and another layer of ceiling tiles. The reason for two layers of ceiling tiles is the weight of the insulation was making the original ceiling sag. So much from assurances from Lowe's that the ceiling would be strong enough to support the insulation. The seam between the walls and the ceiling is not caulked. Anyway, there is no vapor barrier in the ceiling as my understanding was there should not be. The attic is vented at each end. A professional refrigeration unit provides the cooling with the evaporator unit hanging from the ceiling. These are common in cold rooms. Anyway, my problem is with humidity. I have been fighting mold and found the humidity to run from about 85 to 90 percent. I can't figure out why. I checked the drain pan of the evaporator unit and it does not have standing water. I put a trap in the drain pipe to prevent humid air from outside entering. The insulated door seems to seal tightly judging from closing it against air pressure. This room must be much more sealed from outside air than a house and the house maintains 50 percent humidity. I can't see why the refrigeration cycles don't draw the excess humidity out of the air. I have tried temperatures from 70 to 55 F with the same results. Is it too tightly sealed? Not tightly enough? I am stumped. John Wilkinson Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 08:32:03 -0400 From: Len Safhay <cloozoe at optonline.net> Subject: Unnecessary Attack >Past posters and readers of the HBD would well know I have been more than >fair and tolerant with some of the lowest of intellect brewers. Can I sell >you a wort kit Len? Cool, Phil. Is it pre-hopped? I've gotten really tired of putting the damn things in a blender and trying to squeeze them into the bottles. For some reason it makes some of the beer spill out and when you drink it, this green stuff gets in your mouth. Chairs, Len Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 07:24:11 -0700 From: "Bissell, Todd S" <tbissell at spawar.navy.mil> Subject: Oat Hulls? (And Kegging Follow-up) Hi all, 1) As I have mentioned in a previous post, I've been lucky enough to pick up an advanced all-grain setup from a guy that was leaving the hobby. Mash tun/lauter tank, sparge tank, brew fridge, 7 corny-keg setup, all the hoses and fittings, carboys, the works. (http://members.home.net/dbissonette/brewsale.htm) Amongst this U-Haul full of this stuff, he also passed to me all his misc. brewing leftovers, most of which I at least recognize (though I doubt I'll be using the Spruce extract much!) But what are "Brewer's cut Oat Hulls"? I have 3/4 lb of them, and haven't been able to find any information on their use in my library of brew books (even Mr. "Relax, Don't Worry, Have a Homebrew" himself doesn't mention them). What are Oat Hulls used for? How and when would I need them? Are there any freshness issues I need to be concerned with? (the guy I bought this U-Haul worth of stuff hadn't brewed since 1997....) Tks...! 2) To everybody who responded to my nervous and slightly overwhelmed query regarding first-time kegging -- and the fact that I have ball-locks and everybody I hang out with use pin-lock -- thanks...!! The idea of merely changing one or more of my hose fittings to mate with the gang's jockey box and CO2 is both the simplest and most elegant way of getting started! Cheers! Todd S. Bissell Imperial Beach, CA Shameless Homebrew Club Plug: http://geocities.com/fotb1234/ Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 14:23:20 +0000 From: "A.J. deLange" <ajdel at mindspring.com> Subject: Gypsum and pH For Tony Barnsley: The obvious flaw in the protonation guy's thinking (besides that it contradicts what happens in thousands of breweries around the world on a daily basis) is that the amino ends of proteins have pK's in the 8's and 9's and are thus already protonated at normal brewing liquor and certainly at mash pH. At the other end, the pK's tend to be around 3 and hence these ends are likely to gave given up their protons. At mash pH's some of these will indeed take up protons and this mechanism is in part responsible for the establishment of mash pH but the effect of proteins is swamped by the sugar-acids in malts and, where calcium and magnesium are present, by the phytin reaction. The phytin reaction is easily demonstrated in the laboratory or the brewery. Many brewers calculate the amount of acidity released by the reaction by summing the calcium hardness and half the magnesium hardness and then dividing by 3.5. Units can be either milliequivalents per liter or ppm as CaCO3. In either case if the released acidity excedes the alkalinity of the water the mash pH will be lower than what would be realized in a distilled water mash and conversely. For Steve A: Can't agree that switching to Plato is a dumb idea. If one doesn't accept the Plato tables as representative of the amount of sugar in a wort of given SG then he must have some other link between SG and concentration because of the non-linearity. As wort compositions vary one would either have to repeat the Komission's work using a "standard" wort but dumping a little maltose into a dish and leaving out in August's humidity for a few minutes will make it clear why maltose would be difficult to use. Thus sucrose was a practical compromise. I think this is a case where we must appreciate that the function of a standard is often not to be the ultimate conveyor of truth but to insure that everyone who subscribes to it is using the same fiction if it be fiction in fact. Furthermore, while wort and cane sugar solutions are certainly not the same thing it nevertheless seems to be true, based on my simple experiments, that sugars, at least follow, the Komission's tables amazingly closely. I think I've posted the data before but if I try to make up a 10P solution by putting 5.0000 grams of pure sucrose into 50 grams of solution and actually succeed in getting 5 grams into 50.01030 grams of solution then I've got a 9.9974P solution. If I measure that solution's SG in P units I read 9.99 i.e. I'm off by 0.0074 P corresponding to an SG error of about 0.00003. If I do the same with glucose I come up with an error of -.09P and for fructose +0.09P (isn't that interesting!). Maltose read 0.04P high and even dextrin gives me an error of only -.06P. Soluble starch showed an appreciable (I'm saying the other errors were not appreciable because they are probably within the margin of my measurement error i.e. this is anecdotal data at this point) error: 0.29P at a strength of 1.85 P (can't make a starch solution much stronger than this). A.J. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 10:24:47 EDT From: Tombrau at aol.com Subject: RE: Big Rims Hello Brothers of the Wort: Jens Maudal asks about a 2bbl RIMS system. I too, am contemplating a HERMS system on the 4bbl system I work on. My thoughts are to incorporate a 1/2" copper immersion coil placed in the Hot Liquor tank into my Vorlaff routine. It seems fairly simple, but temperature control for these systems is foreign to me. I welcome input for this venture. What category would a Toasted Coconut Porter be entered, Fruit or Specialty? Cheers Tom Moench "we can do this two ways, my way or my way pissed off" Tom Moench Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 11:49:02 -0500 From: Matt Wehland <mwehland at webtripper.com> Subject: Beer In Southern Illinois? On Fri, 24 Aug 2001 "Kirk, Jim" <jkirk at dnr.state.in.us> wrote- >I'll be spending a few days in southern IL for a business trip. In and >around the Carbondale area. Can anyone tell me of any good brewpubs or other >watering holes featuring good beers? Will travel for beer! It's been over a year since I left the area, but the Copper Dragon was the only brew pub that was down there, not a bad place, silly management though. It's in the Pinch Penny complex, by the towers (Dorms), on grand ave (IIRC) They usually had bands there. They used to have good food, but last I heard they had gotten rid of the kitchen. I had also heard that they were thinking of loosing the brewery. Also I think the brew master has changed since I was down there, Harlan (old BM) used to hang out on this list, not sure who the new BM is. Outside of that it's a Keystone town, with Miller/Bud swill being the good beer. Try the 17th St bar and grill in Murphysborro for some good ribs, not sure of the beer selection. Basically your on your own, the liquor stores have some decent beer (Hacker Shor sp?, Goose, Blue Moon etc) but it really isn't a premium beer town. If you don't want to hang out at college parties or bars, I'd suggest picking up or bringing some good beer and checking out the natural sites, stop by the kinkaid spillway, inspiration point, little grand canyon, giant city and more I can't remember off hand. If you like to fish, bring some gear, there is great fishing. Oh and I have to recomend the spillway twice, school should be in session and if the weather is good on the weekend, the sights there can be very nice. There is nothing outside of Carbondale until Kentucky or St Louis. Matt Wehland mwehland at webtripper.com Computer Network Specialist MCSE CCNA Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 10:00:06 -0700 From: "Dave Sapsis" <dsapsis at earthlink.net> Subject: BJCP Exam Schedule Good folks, Time for the periodic post alerting any potential examinees of the current BJCP exam schedule. Follks in the midwest should also note that there will likely be an exam at the end of the year in the Omaha area. As always, the current schedule can be found at http://www.mv.com/ipusers/slack/bjcp/examsch.html 9/8 San Diego, CA Peter Zien Day Phone: (858) 459-4540 Evening Phone: (858) 546-7824 pz.jdzinc at worldnet.att.net 9/14 Dayton, OH Gordon Strong Day Phone: (937) 431-1366 Evening Phone: (same) strongg at earthlink.net 9/22 Sevierville, TN Tom Karnowski Day Phone: (865) 574-5732 Evening Phone: (865) 694-4389 karnowsk at esper.com 10/18 Nashville, TN Fred Scheer Day Phone: (615) 385-0050 Evening Phone: (615) 833-0455 fhopheads at msn.com 10/20 Cleveland, OH Charles Bernard Day Phone: (216) 271-5300 x607 Evening Phone: (330) 725-7072 bernardch at mindspring.com 10/23 Las Vegas, NV Steve MacMillan Day Phone: (702) 768-0815 Evening Phone: (702) 435-5816 11/3 Denver, CO Jim Edgins Day Phone: 720-482-4702 Evening Phone: 303-470-0106 jimedgins at aol.com 11/18 Pittsburgh, PA Rich Schutte Day Phone: (none) Evening Phone: (none) rwschutte at hotmail.com cheers, - --David Sapsis BJCP Exam Co-Director Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 14:27:21 -0700 From: Bill Riel <bill.riel at home.com> Subject: Re: Great British Beer Festival [ replying late because I just returned from the UK and I'm only getting caught up on my hbd reading now...] Ant Hayes asked about others attending the GBBF - I was there, but only for the first two days. However, I attended as a volunteer, rather than a "punter", so I was at the site two days early, helping with setup and drinking lots of real ale all the way through. I would have to say that I had the time of my life! Attending a beerfest of this magnitude is fantastic, but working at it is an unbelievable experience! I'm going to write up an article for our local "What's Brewing" describing the experience of a Canuck working the GBBF, but in short, the great beer was secondary to the awesome people I met. I've never made so many friends at a single event in my entire life: without a doubt I'm going back and I'm making plans to visit the hometowns of several of the friends I met. But, since this is a beer forum, I'll add that I agree with your assessment of the beers: the best were the best I've tasted, some were definitely problematic. My time in the UK has convinced me that 'Real Ale' (CAMRA style) can be the best or worst way to serve beer. At it's best it's sublime; there's nothing like it, but I was served a few sub-par pints in pubs where I suspect the beer turnover wasn't what it should be. One good thing I discovered was that there was never any problem with me sending a pint back if I wasn't satisfied (this is true at the fest, too). Also, your point about the beer styles represented: I noticed that, too. Here at the Great Canadian Beer Fest we have an abundance of Stouts and Porters - at the GBBF there were a few stouts, and I did drink one or two porters at the 'Volunteer Arms' (the pub set up for volunteer staff), but the bulk of the beers were bitters. I was impressed with the number of milds, though, and with the range of flavour represented within that style. It's an event definitely worth attending. Even better to volunteer if you can! Cheers, Bill Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 14:53:54 -0700 From: Bill Riel <bill.riel at home.com> Subject: Re: Fest with 100-odd real ales . . . Ray Daniels responds to Ant Hayes: > Well Ant, if you ever find yourself near Chicago on the first of March, > we'll show you how to do it up right. We exhibit more than 150 firkins of > American and British real ale at the Real Ale Festival -- and the serving > size is four ounces, so you can sample without, uh, wasting any beer. ;-] Ray, not to diminish the Chicago Real Ale festival (of which I've heard wonderful things), but by my count, the GBBF had more like 350 real ales on tap, not including the bottled beer bar (all bottle conditioned) and all the imports (including American beers) at the Bieres Sans Frontieres. Oh, and roughly 50 ciders and perrys at the Cider bar as well! As to the sample size difference, we do four ounces as well at the Great Canadian Beer Fest. I found that at the GBBF, pints and half pints weren't as bad a measure as it sounds, especially since the average beer has a lower alcohol % than what you find in North American beer fests. At the GBBF, (and indeed, through much of Britain) 5% ABV is considered a fairly strong beer. Or maybe I was just used to quaffing huge quantities of ale by the time the fest rolled around so it wasn't a problem ;-) In any case, the GBBF bills itself as the biggest pub in the world: it's meant to be a pub rather than a beer tasting event. Different than the way we do things, but very appealing in any case! Cheers! Bill (who hopes to make it out to Chicago for your fine fest one of these days...) Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 19:06:05 -0500 From: Bill Tobler <WCTobler at brazoria.net> Subject: Enzyme killer? Or not.... Hi all, I lurk most of the time, and try to stay out of the battle zone. I have a serious question about my brew methods, so here is a quick background of my methods and equipment. I have a HERMS system, 15 gallon HLT and a 10 gallon Polerware pot as a Mash tun. It has a Bazooka T screen on the drain, with a Polerware SS false bottom over top of it. (Overkill, yes I know) The HLT temps and the Mash temps are both controlled by Omega temp controllers, CN9000A models. The HLT has a 7000 watt element, and inside is the heat exchanger for the mash, a 25' long coil of 1/2" copper tubing. At the inlet of the copper tubing is a 3-way valve, which directs the flow of wort into the heat exchanger or to a bypass, and back into the mash. The 3-way valve, which controls the temp of the mash, is controlled by one of the Omega temp controllers, and is in on/off mode. The wort is moved by a pump from Moving Brews, using 3/8" ID soft hose. There is a 4 outlet return manifold on top of the mash. Ok, now that that's out of the way, here is my usual method. I would heat the HLT up to ~180 deg F, and keep it there from the start. I would dough in at ~120 deg, then ramp up to my first stop. Sometimes 122 for a short protein rest, usually right up to 152-155, mash to conversion and then mash out at 168 deg. My question is about the little guys, the enzymes. Do they get diluted into the wort? And when does that start? With the HLT at 180 deg, the outlet temp of the circulating wort can get as high as 170 deg. So the wort temp gets high enough to kill the enzymes early on in the mash, if they were all in the wort. I am guessing/hoping that most of the enzymes are in the mash, and stay there throughout most of the mash time. How long do the enzymes need to be exposed to high temps to get denatured? My beers usually turn out good, finish around 1012. Most OG's are around 1050 to 1058. I check for starch at the end of the last rest before mashout, and it is always converted. Maybe I should RDWHAHB. If I was killing the little buggers, I would never get rid of all the starch. My next few brews, I'm going to ramp the HLT up along with the mash, and keep it just 10 deg higher than the mash set point. Thanks in advance for all the help, now and in the past. To Better Brewing Bill Tobler Lake Jackson, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 08:28:56 -0400 (EDT) From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu Subject: rye-pils,..beta glucans Joel; I like the idea of maiking a pils with rye, and may in fact try that myself...as the temperature drops here in Northern NY state...and allows me to lager without the aid of a fridge...water in the trashcan sort of setup... I am concerned with the lack of beta glucan rest (95-104F according to Fix). I brewed a hefe-rye with the following ingredients, but failed to do the glucan rest (had company...started to drink a few..) and found that it came out too thick (for most...but not for me). I used : 8 lb Canada Maltings 6 row (recommended to me for its beta glucanase) 4lb rye (too muc for a pils..) 1 lb wheat (for head) 1 lb rice flakes (wanted to lighten it a bit) 128F for 20 minutes 148F for 30 158F for 30 First runnings were 1.09 boil gravity was 1.052 original gravity (90 min boil) was 1.056 secondary gravity was 1.014 final gravity was 1.104 %abv was 5.5 Hops were 1 oz Ultra (3.4%aa) after first 30 min and another at 30 left. no finish hops, as I wanted the rye to come through...and boy does it! I used a vial of both Hefe (wlp300) and Wit (wlp400)...they were both dated for march 01,...so I wanted to use them up. I really like the mix of the hefe and the rye...but if I do it again I will use maybe 2 lb at the most. I wanted to push it to the edge just to see what would happen...I like the challenge...but think that it was too much for most. If I were to do a pils with the rye,...I think that a pound at the most, in a 8-10 lb grain bill would be sufficient...so long as you keep the hops at the low end...which you seem to be doing.. good luck and please post your results to the HBD. We can all learn from each other. If I do the Rye Pils (down the road a few months) then I will post it as well.... Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 14:05:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Denis Bekaert <Denis-B at rocketmail.com> Subject: Agave Mead Scott asked ....hmmm 5 pounds of honey, 3 pounds of agave nectar, some yeast and budda bing budda bang... Agave Mead... Anyone try it??? Thoughts??? Hey Scott, Lynne at St. Pat's of Texas has had this mead at their store in the past. INMHO it was to die for...best mead I've ever tasted. I'm sure she'd be happy to share the recipe with all who asked... Brew on Brothers and Sisters... Denis in Beechgrove, Tennessee where Moonshine is our history but homebrewing is our passion. Return to table of contents
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