HOMEBREW Digest #3749 Mon 01 October 2001

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  Oxidized Brews (Bob Sheck)
  Re: Wheat Concoction ("Rob Compton")
  browning fresh hops? ("Badger/DJ Sable/Project Mercury")
  Re-brewing for competition ("Mark Tumarkin")
  Teaberries in my beer? ("Christopher Mika")
  Re: thermal mass for picnic cooler ("Eric and Susan Armstrong")
  Stuck RIMS ("Dave & Joan King")
  Re: Beer Baking (Jeff Renner)
  Long mash times = high attenuation & course flavors...? (Karen & Troy Hager)
  Subject: rply:Iodine (Zurekbrau)
  Competition Announcement (Jim Hinken)
  Re: Re-brewing for competition? (Robert Paolino)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 00:38:43 -0400 From: Bob Sheck <bsheck at skantech.net> Subject: Oxidized Brews Is there any health risks with consuming oxidized beers? Bob Sheck // DEA - Down East Alers - Greenville, NC Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 07:29:43 +0100 From: "Rob Compton" <compton at btinternet.com> Subject: Re: Wheat Concoction Greetings Ringpulls.... >Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 22:06:42 -0700 >From: Casey <acez at mindspring.com> >Subject: Wheat Concoction >How long should I ferment it? I welcome any ideas. I would think... until activity has ceased (or as near as dammit!) and the SG as fallen to 1.012 or thereabouts. You may find, from my experiences.., that it will attenuate closer to 1.005, so if you want to wait.... Sounds like a nice recipe. Let us know how it turns out (drinkable or not!). I've used wheat (unmalted), and wheat malt for quite a few beers - tried copying Hoegarden but haven't quite got their yet - probably a case of getting the right yeast for primary and secondary fermentations as they use a different yeast to krausen the bottles. Mud in yer eye! Rob. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 01:14:26 -0700 From: "Badger/DJ Sable/Project Mercury" <badger at badger.cx> Subject: browning fresh hops? Some one gave me three paper bags half full of Hallertaur fresh hops. they are partially dry, and i am leaving them in the bags, and shaking them up everyonce in a while to let them dry out before i attempt to get a decent vacuum seal with my dust buster and a ziplock. then into the freezer. Question: some of them are turning brown ish. is that bad? or normal. I've never dealt with fresh hops ever. badger Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 09:01:43 -0400 From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re-brewing for competition Bob Paolino brought up an interesting issue concerning re-brewing for competition in response to something I'd posted earlier. He wrote: "If the competition explicitly permits it, it's hard to blame someone for taking advantage of the opportunity. That said, I think allowing it is a bad idea. Ethical dilemmas aside (well, not completely put aside), if you re-brew you're entering a different beer in the second round, not the beer that got you there. Remember that we're talking about homebrewing. In a commercial brewery, there's a reasonable expectation of consistency from one batch to the next. Not so under homebrewing conditions, except perhaps for a few elabourate homebreweries." Brian Lundeen responded - "These competitions are between brewers. Beers don't climb out of their boxes, travel cross-country and challenge another beer to a taste-off (clearly a death match if there ever was one). WE are the ones competing." As far as I know, there are only two competitions that have multiple rounds - the AHA Nationals and the MCAB. Are there others I'm not aware of? The MCAB is definately a competition between brewers. Start with the name - Masters Championship of Amateur Brewers and the fact that the rules specifically permit brewing a new batch. (I tried to confirm this by looking at the entry rules on the website, but it currently only lists the winners). It's the brewer's choice to resubmit the original brew or a newer (and obviously different brew of the same style). I'm pretty sure the rules for the AHA Nationals used to specifically prohibit a new batch, but for the last several years the rules don't mention it one way or the other. Maybe Gary Glass or Paul Gatza could confirm this? I will say that I don't think many brewers are re-brewing for the AHA Natls - at least going by the German Wheats I've judged at the last couple of 2nd rounds. They were uniformly lacking (or at least low) in the wonderful yeast flavor characteristics that define these styles. I've got to believe that this wasn't the case for these same beers in the first round. We chose winners in the category, but I know they wouldn't have a chance at Best of Show. Mark Wilson gives us further evidence of this in his post - "The advantages of re-brewing will vary greatly with style. This is what happened to me in the AHA Nationals a few years ago. I entered a 1.032 OG Mild, and scored in the mid 40's. The judges really liked it, one of them even mentioned it on his website. By the second round, (~2 months later) the beer had fallen apart. The judges ripped it, scoring in the mid 20's. And I agreed with them! My copies at home had fallen apart, too. Oxidation was setting in. If I were to do it again with any light style I would not think twice before re-brewing. The fragility of lighter beers, especially for homebrewers, undoubtedly contributes to the imbalance of big beers winning competitions, given that many of the lighter styles are more difficult to brew." I'm sure that many brewers rebrew for MCAB and this contributes to the high level of competition. Currently, I don't think many brewers are rebrewing for the Nationals 2nd round, even in the styles that are clearly best when young and fresh. I'd be curious if this is correct. Have any of you re-brewed for the Nationals? It may be difficult to get a clear consensus on this issue, but I think that if the brewer has the chops to win in the first round of the AHA Natls, or a qualifying round of the MCAB, there is absolutely nothing wrong with rebrewing a new batch. It could turn out better or worse than the original. It's up to the brewer to decide which is better. I think the judges would be presented with a better group of beers. Overall, this would improve the level of competition. If we don't want this, we should make sure that the rules specifically prohibit rebrewing. Anyhow, that's my 2 cents, Mark Tumarkin Gainesville, FL Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 13:35:00 +0000 From: "Christopher Mika" <cmika at hotmail.com> Subject: Teaberries in my beer? Greetings, Yesterday I was working out on a mountain top and ran across a patch of teaberries. I managed along with some help to pick a full sandwich bag of them. I would like to use these in a teaberry brew and was wondering if anybody else out there had any experience with them they could share with me. I am not even sure if I should add them to my mash, (I think they would just float to the top) the boil, or maybe even my secondary fermentor. Also, any recipes for an ale that would accentuate the teaberry flavor would be much appreciated. On another note, I would like to thank everybody who responded to a post regarding questions I had about building my three-tier system. I incorporated alot of different people's ideas into the design. My first brew on the system was at a club booth at a local festival. I brewed a 10 gal. batch of American Amber Ale and my system worked great. What made the whole experience interesting was that there was no running water available for any of the process. If anybody would like to hear the details I would gladly go over them and what I would change if I were to do it again. Cheers, Chris Mika Altoona, PA Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 08:49:57 -0500 From: "Eric and Susan Armstrong" <erica at isunet.net> Subject: Re: thermal mass for picnic cooler Here is the answer that Jeff Donovan sent to me regarding the same question. Note, I use a rectangle cooler and not a round Gott cooler. >Jeff: >I have been playing with the thermal mass feature of Pro >Mash. I mash in a Coleman cooler and after about >fifteen batches I have come to the conclusion that I >should set the thermal mash of my mashtun to 0.00. >Does this seem reasonable? Well if the mashtun is pre-heated then yes, the thermal mass should always be 0. If not then no, there is always some heat absorbed by a cold mashtun and that needs to be accounted for. I haven't used a Coleman cooler before, but I know a few users that do and they have suggested a very low thermal mass, in the range of 0.03. Bottom line is that if you are hitting your targets with a given number, use it. If not, you need to make the appropriate adjustment. Let me know if I can be of any further assistance, Cheers! Jeffrey Donovan Beer Engineer The Sausalito Brewing Co. jeffrey at promash.com jeffrey at beerengineer.com http://www.promash.com http://www.beerengineer.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 10:31:42 -0400 From: "Dave & Joan King" <dking3 at stny.rr.com> Subject: Stuck RIMS My RIMS stuck on me yesterday, and it refused to free up. I tore it all apart, examined, cleared, backflush, worked with attempted very low flow rates, etc. Nothing would work. I had about 1.1 qt/lb. The mash started a bit warm, about 156 to 158 F for about 10 minutes. I was finally able to get flow going after I added 3.5 gallons of hot water to start sparging, and as it progressed, I was able to heat it up more with the RIMS, and it finally got to 167F, and by then it was cleared up and flowing fine. The grain bill was 10.5 lb Munton's 2RE, 1/4 lb Munich, 1/2 lb 6L Special B, 1/2 lb 60L crystal. I use a large pad as a grant, which I bias heat on a small burner. Roughly this same recipe mashed and sparged just fine about a week before. I had 1 stuck sparge with normal mashing about 2 years ago, but I think I was just flowing too fast at that time. I haven't had trouble before or after, until yesterday. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks in advance, Dave King (BIER, Brewers In the Endicott Region) Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 10:59:04 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at mediaone.net> Subject: Re: Beer Baking Drew Avis of Merrickville, Ontario <andrew_avis at hotmail.com> asks me: >Here's a suggestion: why not a series of recipes for baked foods that >traditionally accompany or contain beer? You're probably better qualified >than anyone else here to write such an article, Jeff. Here's what I've been >looking for: I have a friend who is of Belgian extraction who makes amazing >Belgian waffles, but she won't give me the recipe. All I know is that >they're leavened with yeast, not baking powder, and I suspect she puts beer >in there as well as they have a wonderful nutty/malty flavour. I would >love to try them topped with ice cream and drizzled with some "dessert >stout" sent to me by the infamous Brian Lundeen. > >So, do you have such a recipe in your pocket as well, Jeff? Well, Drew, I did write an article in Zymurgy a few years ago about baking bread with spent grains called Baking for Brewers or something like that, but I don't have a line on your Belgian waffles. But maybe your Belgian friend could be bribed with some Belgian beer. How about offering her a trade - her recipe for a five gallon batch of Chimay clone? Chimay go for it. Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at mediaone.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 22:46:55 -0700 From: Karen & Troy Hager <thager at smcoe.k12.ca.us> Subject: Long mash times = high attenuation & course flavors...? In the mash length thread of late Steve wrote: "Long mash times lead to wort darkening and coarser flavors in the beer. Extreme mash times and thick mashing have a place in the arsenal of brewers tricks - but you should save these for special occasions when nothing else will work." As I am thinking of my mashing technique I have realized that I have probably been mashing for quite a long time: My usual mash schedule goes something like this - Mash in at about 155-158F (trying to get more dextrins in my wort) - let sit for 1 hour in my gott cooler mash tun - temp probably drops a few degrees over an hour. I have never been too concerned about the time and never have done a iodine test- but have adhered to what I was told and have read in my beginning brewing years that it doesn't make much difference - just mash for an hour or so and it is sure to convert... So depending on who comes over or what I am doing my mash time is usually somewhere in the 1-1.5 hour range. Then I recirculate for about 15minutes or so and then start sparging. I usually sparge with 170F water and have noticed that the temperature of the mash usually doesn't rise a whole lot - usually at the most in the low to mid 160F range. I always sparge slowly - usually about 45mins or so. During this time, I am collecting the runoff in the kettle and for the past year or so I have been doing "split-brews" - where I mash and collect the wort after work on Friday night, then Sat. morning boil and finish up. I now realize that with my 1 hour plus initial mash time, recirculating time and sparge time, my wort is sitting right in the 150-160F range for at least 2 hours, usually more.... AND, with the "split-brew" method, it is sitting at enzyme range temps for hours... I am assuming that I am giving those enzymes a long, long time to crunch up those starch molecules into a highly fermentable wort and my FGs stand to prove it with all my beers from 1.045-1.060 dropping to below 1.010. Kick your butt brew! Is my line of thinking correct about this? Thanks for really making this clear for me Steve! I guess I am also wondering about your statement about long mash times leading to course flavors. I have never read or heard this - could you go into this thought a bit further? Thanks again, Troy Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 15:50:38 EDT From: Zurekbrau at aol.com Subject: Subject: rply:Iodine In reply to John >Any comments on the use of iodine and whether we should bother are greatly >appreciated. >From: "John Gubbins" <n0vse at idcomm.com> I used to do the iodine test, but found that after about an hour the mash was converted. Now I just mash for one and half hours and skip the iodine test. It is easier not to worry about conversation ymmv Rich Zurek in Carpentersville IL USA Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 06:46:50 -0700 From: Jim Hinken <jim.hinken at verizon.net> Subject: Competition Announcement The Brews Brothers are pleased to announce Novembeerfest 2001, the Pacific Northwest's premier homebrewing competition. Novembeerfest is open to all amateur brewers. Novembeerfest will be held Saturday, November 3 at Larry's Homebrewing Supply, 7405 S. 212th St. #103, Kent, WA 98032 Started in 1991, Novembeerfest has grown from a local competition to the most respected competition in the Pacific Northwest. Entries will be accepted from all BJCP/AHA beer style categories, including cider and mead. The style guidelines may be viewed at http://www.mv.com/ipusers/slack/bjcp/style-index.html. Three bottles are required for entry with an entry fee of U.S.$5. The standard AHA entry form and bottle labels may be used. Entries will be accepted through October 28, 2001. They may be shipped to Jim Hinken 24211 4th PL W Bothell, WA 98021 425-483-9324 Entries may also be dropped off at: Larry's Homebrewing Supply, 7405 S. 212th St. #103,Kent, WA 98032, 206-872-6846 Mountain Homebrew and Wine Supply, 8520 122nd Ave NE, Suite #B-6, Kirkland, WA 98033, 425-803-3996 Cascade Brewing Supplies, 224 Puyallup Ave., Tacoma, WA 98421, 253-383-8980 Bob's Homebrew Supply, 2821 NE 55th St, Seattle, WA 98105, 206-527-9283 Rockfish Grill and Anacortes Brewery, 320 Commercial Avenue, Anacortes, Washington, 360-588-1720 For additional information, contact Jim Hinken 24211 4th Place West Bothell, WA. 98021 425-483-9324 e-mail: jim.hinken at verizon.net Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 22:04:23 -0500 (CDT) From: Robert Paolino <rpaolino at execpc.com> Subject: Re: Re-brewing for competition? On Fri, 28 Sep 2001, Mark W Wilson wrote: > The advantages of re-brewing will vary greatly with style. This is what > happened to me in the AHA Nationals a few years ago. I entered a 1.032 OG > Mild, and scored in the mid 40's. The judges really liked it, one of them > even mentioned it on his website. > > By the second round, (~2 months later) the beer had fallen apart. The > judges ripped it, scoring in the mid 20's. And I agreed with them! My All quite true. But wouldn't that likely also be true of the other finalists' beers in that same time period between first and second rounds? It's a matter of fairness. If entry "A" is re-brewed for a later round of the same competition and entry "B" is done according to the rules and the saame first-round-winning beer shipped for the second round, doesn't "A" get an unfair advantage over "B" (as well as the other dilemmas I suggested in the original post)? (I do recall in AHA rules at least at one time recommending refrigeration of additional bottles of the entries for possible second round use--not a complete guarantee, but at least to keep changes to a minimum.) > The fragility of lighter beers, especially for homebrewers, undoubtedly > contributes to the imbalance of big beers winning competitions, given that The "big beer thing" may be true of a BOS, but less so within a style category. Most competitions, however, are just a single day/weekend, without some second stage of the same competition months later (primarily the AHANHC). I'm not even so sure it's always true of BOS, because I've noticed sometimes that BOS judges will bend over backwards, perhaps even overcompensating, to avoid "big beer bias." - -- Now go have a beer, Bob Paolino NOTE: Please change your address books Madison by dropping the "earth" from the address! I can taste my beer; can you? Support your local craft brewers! Return to table of contents
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