HOMEBREW Digest #3861 Sat 09 February 2002

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  EasyMasher/SureScreens in boil kettles ("Michael Maag")
  Re: When to start All-Grain ("Larry Bristol")
  Wayback Machine / Dough in (Road Frog)
   ("Tom Byrnes")
  dual pot boiling/splitting 5 gallons (davidson richard)
  RE: kettle screens, Kle*n bashing, doughing in and cornmeal (Brian Lundeen)
  Mail order recommendation--Brewer's Rendezvous ("Neil K")
  Mai-Bock (leavitdg)
  re: Subject: Re: New Temperture Controler Chip. ("Ralph Davis")
  Microbiology and malting. (Clifton Moore)
  Alternatives to the E-Z Masher and Sure Screen (Stephen Johnson)
  licorice ("D. Clark")
  White Labs expanding ("Robert J. Waddell")
  Re:fanciful analogy language (Phil Wilcox)
  Beer From Dirt Project ("Dan Listermann")
  HB Song ("Jeff Tonole")
  Re: False Bottoms /  B*b Kl**n (Dion Hollenbeck)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 07:54:50 -0500 From: "Michael Maag" <MichaelMaag at doli.state.va.us> Subject: EasyMasher/SureScreens in boil kettles I have used Surescreens in the boil kettle for about 60 10 gallon batches. The key seems to be: Use at least one ounce of flower hops (to help hold the break in a pile if you wirlpool, and to help filter the break. Let the cooled wort settle for 40-60 minutes so the break and pellet pieces can settle to the bottom of the kettle. If the break/pellet muck is still in suspension, it gets sucked thorugh the screen and clogs. Hope this helps, Mike Maag, Shenandoah Valley Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 07:29:51 -0600 From: "Larry Bristol" <Larry at DoubleLuck.com> Subject: Re: When to start All-Grain On Thu, 7 Feb 2002 08:53:12 -0500, Jeff Renner wrote: >So, Larry, when will you be taking up farming and malting? Not any time soon. Farming is HARD WORK! I do have a garden. Does that count? But regardless, there is no point looking in my garden for amber waves of grain. :-) >... grew wheat for a few years ... and malted it a few >times. I decided I didn't want that much control, especially since I >wasn't in control very well of the malting. Jeff, you just need practice, practice, practice. <g> As you know, a homebrewer can exercise as much or as little control over the process as he/she wants. Regardless of how much control one takes, the same 10 steps are always performed: grow grain and hops, malt the grain, mill it, mash, sparge, boil, cool, spooge [what?!?], ferment, condition. The question is not whether they get done, but merely who does them. The homebrewer can take full control and do all 10 steps himself, but it is a lot of work. Don't want that much control (work)? Then let someone else do steps 1-N until you step in, take control, and (of course) claim all the credit! [Blame all failures on whoever did steps 1-N.] Larry Bristol Bellville, TX http://www.doubleluck.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 06:57:26 -0800 (PST) From: Road Frog <road_frog_run at yahoo.com> Subject: Wayback Machine / Dough in OK, maybe not way back Mr. Peabody. Just back. On Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 11:32:35 -0700 (MST) ...Reggale and Dredhop Homebrew Competition will take place on March 30th, 2001... Can I just send in a "B*b Kl**n" description? How about a beer I brewed then. Does one of those _Back to the Future_ guys run a competitor to UPS? For dough in I add the water to the grain, then more grain, then more water. Only because I mill in two batches and store the first milling in the cooler while I mill the second batch. I do have to fight starch balls with this method. On-In, Glyn in Southern Middle TN Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 10:48:41 -0500 From: "Tom Byrnes" <kmstfb2 at exis.net> Subject: What would be good to clean the brown stains off the inside bottom of a stainless steel pot. Dishwashing liquid doesn't do the job. Tom Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 08:13:07 -0800 (PST) From: davidson richard <ooh_rick at yahoo.com> Subject: dual pot boiling/splitting 5 gallons Instead of trying to capture the 5 gallons in two different pots, therefore having two different gravities, why not collect the entire run-off in one bucket and THEN split between your two boil kettles. You'll be assured of identical gravities and your hop utilization will remain relative. You're not really adding that much time or procedural steps to the process. I'm not totally convinced of the hazards of hot-side aeration yet, but you could still do it without much danger of introducing oxygen, I think. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 11:07:16 -0600 From: Brian Lundeen <blundeen at rrc.mb.ca> Subject: RE: kettle screens, Kle*n bashing, doughing in and cornmeal Wayne Holder writes: > The key to not clogging a screen with pellet hops is to > slowly open the valve. This will avoid hop compaction. Not trying to slam you here, Wayne, but I will continue my skepticism until I hear about successfully using a screen (any screen) in a boil kettle from someone who does not market the product. I don't see this as being an issue of hop compaction so much as the pellet hops simply will not provide the "roughage" that the sticky goopy break material need (and get from whole hops) in order to maintain drainage paths. I can't see how any screen would not get totally covered in this gunk and clog up instantly. Joel Plutchak writes of the beer writer whose name dare not be spoken: > sometimes describes how the taste of a beer changes > "mid-bottle." What, does he swig it straight from the long- > neck? (I suspect he's merely experiencing the temperature > dependence of certain flavors, so why not properly attribute > the change to that instead of where it sits in the bottle? I really think you guys in rfdb make too much about this mid-bottle business. It's just a convenient way of saying "halfway through drinking". I don't interpret it to mean he is swigging straight out of the bottle. I think he's correct, the perceived taste of a beer (or wine, or a lot of beverages) does change as you drink it. At least if it is worth drinking. Characteristics that struck you as prominent initially will become muted as your buds start to accept them as normal "background noise". Then new things will start to emerge. Perhaps you have valid complaints about his perceptions being contradictory or just plain wrong, but I don't regard the mid-bottle term as a shining example of his failings. Danny Breidenbach asks: > What's best, and then what works well enough for 5-gallon > batches: Add grist to water, add water to grist? I'm going to really stir the mash here (I just shouldn't post on a Friday, I'm just cranky and opinionated at the end of a work week, especially after getting a snippy email from a co-worker that thinks that I'm the bad guy because of their lack of planning ability)... What was I saying, oh yes... Heat your water to strike temp, dump in your bucket of grains. That simple. I don't want to hear about enzymes being denatured in the scant seconds it takes to pull the water temp down, or cold dough-ins, or mixing equal parts little by little, or underletting... My brew day is long enough without fussing about at this stage. It takes me about 5 minutes to get in there with my mash paddle and gently create a nice homogeneous mash with no dough balls. I use an average ratio of 2.7 l/kg (I'm Canadian, eh?) with a reasonably fine crush from my Valley Mill and that seems to work like your proverbial Ukrainian fishing boat. Halfway through I'll go back in for another stir just to top up the heat a bit and make sure I didn't miss any dough balls (never seem to find any on the second pass though). And in all this time, I've never had my personal BJCP judge comment, "hmmm, can really taste the unconverted starches in that one". Finally, a question of my own (and feel free to respond as crankily as you wish). Does cornmeal, pound for pound, contribute the same amount of extract as flaked corn? ProMash has flaked corn but not corn meal inits ingredient database and I want to be certain I'm formulating my recipe correctly. I also see some cornmeal labelled as pre-cooked. Can this go straight in the mash or does it need the double mash, too? Should I avoid it and just buy plain old-fashioned uncooked stuff? Cheers Brian Lundeen Brewing at [314,829] aka Winnipeg Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 13:50:55 -0500 From: "Neil K" <neilk27 at hotmail.com> Subject: Mail order recommendation--Brewer's Rendezvous With all the talk lately recommending good places to order from, I had to drop in my two cents in favor of Robert Johnson at Brewer's Rendezvous - www.bobbrews.com (NAYYY...) I live in Montreal but wanted to order some Zymico stuff to an address in Florida where a friend was staying for one week. I placed my order well in advance for it to arrive during my friend's stay, but due to credit card processing complications, the order was held up. As my deadline loomed, Robert shipped out my order priority postage (at his own expense) without even having my credit card authorization! He sent out a $100 package before the credit card company cleared it, because he said he didn't want a disappointed customer. He told me we could work out the payment details later. Eventually he did manage to get the authorization for my credit card but not before he took a leap of faith and sent my order. You don't get that kind of service very often anywhere thse days. I thanked him personally but will thank him again here. By the way, I love the Zymico Kewler Kitz I bought to add a ball valve to a Gott cooler. I don't know why people bother improvising with their own parts when you can buy a ready-made bulkhead, rubber o-rings and a 1/2" full port stainless ball valve all for $38. It fits perfectly, is completely watertight and is all stainless steel. It's even cheaper if you go for the brass valve, or you can just buy the bulkhead for $19. Neil Kushnir Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 14:48:07 -0500 (EST) From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu Subject: Mai-Bock I am going to make a Mai-Bock, and wonder if anyone has a good, all- grain recipe for such? I have a good deal of slurry from a Czech Budovice (sp?) that I just placed in secondary, and am anxious to re-use it. .Darrell Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 14:51:48 -0500 From: "Ralph Davis" <rdavis77 at erols.com> Subject: re: Subject: Re: New Temperture Controler Chip. ??? >Date: 05 Feb 2002 20:25:43 -0800 >From: Dion Hollenbeck <hollen at woodsprite.com> >Subject: Re: New Temperture Controler Chip. >Pete> The topic of temperature control comes up frequently in this >Pete> forum. I just got a notice that Atmel has a new triac driver >Pete> chip, a T2117. The notice is at: >Pete> >Pete> http://mailinglist.chipcenter.com/cgi-bin4/flo?y=eFwa0Co4RK0Bbs0BWIs0Ay > >Sounds much like the Rodney Morris design using a zero crossing chip >to drive two ICs, 8 resistors and 4 caps and a triac. Worked for up >to a 15 amp triac. > >dion >- -- >Dion Hollenbeck Email: hollen at woodsprite.com >Home Page: http://www.woodsprite.com >Brewing Page: http://hbd.org/hollen ??? I looked at the site and I really have NO IDEA what you are talking about... (temp control for a freezer???). Can you explain this using English, not Engineeringeze? Ralph W. Davis Leesburg, Virginia [395.2, 121.8] Apparent Rennerian "Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -Benjamin Franklin Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 11:18:04 -0900 From: Clifton Moore <cmoore at gi.alaska.edu> Subject: Microbiology and malting. My current investigations center about the two to three day steeping process at the start of malting. The objective is to cause the barley seed to imbibe water sufficient to carry it through germination. A target volume of water by weight is 45%. The raw barley brings with it a wide variety of biota, which when dumped into water strive to take advantage of their circumstance. The challenge to the malter is to prevent them from damaging the seeds germination. Damage can manifest itself in many ways from too rapid a germination (bolting), to delayed sprouting, to death and fungal domination of the entire seed. The traditional method of microbial control is to exchange water on a schedule that flushes offending organisms such that their population is kept in check. I am currently searching for an initial steep treatment that will suppress microbial activity so that the seeds will stand a better chance. I then plan to alternate the steep environment between aerobic and anaerobic by adjusting the water exchange and aeration schedule. Two areas I wish to investigate are real time monitoring of microbial populations, and inoculation with friendly creatures. I can imagine that steep water might be circulated through an optical path to assess microbial populations. The free floating candidates are yeasts and bacterial, with other single celled bacterial sized animalcules swimming about (likely just flagellated bacteria). Specific wavelength absorption, or fluorescence strike me as likely candidates for gross assay. On the "friendly creatures" front, I have experimented with Lactic Acid Bacteria because they are available in the health food isle, and are considered food safe. The problem here is that they are not likely to thrive in a barley steep environment. If I could get them to grow I might expect the lowered pH to kill fungal contaminants. The barley must survive a period of anaerobic soak, but the advantage of getting a head start on the fungus would allow the seed to fend off infection via its own defense mechanisms. Yeast might also be used in this same way. Any thoughts on the last two items would be appreciated. I am currently in position of 2500 lbs. of malting barley that is presenting me with this challenge of finding an optimal steep schedule. Clifton Moore ASF/RGPS Geophysical Institute University of Alaska Fairbanks AK 99775 (907) 474 7417 cmoore at gi.alaska.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 15:21:07 -0600 From: Stephen Johnson <Stephen.Johnson at vanderbilt.edu> Subject: Alternatives to the E-Z Masher and Sure Screen I seem to recall that one of our Tennessee brewing buddies in Chattanooga, C.D. Pritchard, has used the stainless mesh coils from washer hoses that Bret Morrow asks about in HBD 3860. You can check C.D.'s RIMS machine and other interesting stuff at: http://chattanooga.net/~cdp/ I don't know if he still uses these things, but you can e-mail him and ask at cdp at chattanooga.net and find out. Steve Johnson, President Music City Brewers Nashville, TN 6980.2, 7.7 Apparent Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 16:55:43 -0500 From: "D. Clark" <clark at capital.net> Subject: licorice Hi list, I haven't written in a very long time, but a question has come up. I am planning a porter to enter in a competition. It uses a pound of black malt, a licorice stick and a vanilla bean in the recipe. I have made it before and it is the only porter that I have made that has been even close to being good. My brewing supply shop (EBI in Saratoga) NAJASC had one stick of brewers licorice for months and I didn't buy it. Sure enough when I went to buy it, it was gone. I have a box of licorice toffees made by Callard and Bowser, but they have a lot of other stuff in them like salt, canola oil, condensed skim milk and brazil nut paste. I can't find licorice anywhere else. Will I be okay using these toffees or should I wait for my supplier to get some in? Just for the record, I started mashing with Listermann's system. I still use the whirlything. Have no reason not to. My beer for the superbowl was a CAP (thank you Jeff Renner) and I currently have a wheat on tap. TIA for your help. Dave Clark Eagle Bridge, New York Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 15:09:35 -0700 From: "Robert J. Waddell" <rjw at dimensional.com> Subject: White Labs expanding It's been quite awhile since I posted anything here, but I thought that this might be of interest to the collective. From the Longmont Daily Times-Call, Longmont, CO, USA on 2-7-2002: "White Labs Inc., has announced the opening of its first satellite office at 7960 Niwot Road, C-12, Niwot, CO. The office will house the White Labs sales and marketing dept. "To celebrate the opening, Dr. Chris White, White Labs President, will give a special "Valentine's Day" lecture on Brewing Belgian Beers. The lecture will be held from 7:30 to 9 p.m. Thursday, Feb. 14, at Redstone Meadery in Boulder. White Labs will also host an office open house from 4 to 7 p.m. Saturday, Feb. 16 in Niwot. "For more information or to RSVP, contact JoAnne Carilli at 303-652-3119 or joanne at whitelabs.com". With the close proximity of the AHA, the AOB, and all of the really great brewing businesses in this area, this looks like a very smart move by Chris. I wish the best of luck to Chris and company, and welcome to Rockies. BTW: check out Redstone Meadery: http://www.redstonemeadery.com/ Do I live close to Heaven, or what? rjw I *L*O*V*E* my [Pico] system. 'Cept for that gonging noise it makes when my wife throws it off the bed at night. Women... --Pat Babcock *** It's never too late to have a happy childhood! *** **************************************************************************** RJW at dimensional.com / Opinions expressed are usually my own but Robert J. Waddell / perhaps shared. Owner & Brewmaster: Barchenspeider Brew-Haus Longmont, Colorado **************************************************************************** (4,592 feet higher than Jeff Renner) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 17:07:26 -0500 From: Phil Wilcox <pjwilcox at cmsenergy.com> Subject: Re:fanciful analogy language I think i have to take point at what I think Pat and Steve are pokeing at here. I would much rather get a scoresheet back with bunch of "fanciful analogical language" than to get one back with 13 words, six numbers and a signature. Which is how several of my Mead scoresheets turned out from the AHA regional last year. They were horrible. I learned nothing about my mead, and nothing of what this person thought of my mead, other than the numbers totaled 46. At least with fluffy speech you get a general idea of what the person thought of your entry. IMNSHO, quality judging is all about matching your tastebuds with your vocabulary. The ability to discribe with good vocabulary is fundamental in making a good score sheet. You need two things to be a great judge. A well experienced and knowledgable palate and a vocabulary that lets transfer that knowledge to the written page. I'll take William Shakespeare over Marcel Marceau as a beer judge any day!!! ;<) Phil Wilcox Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 17:47:40 -0500 From: "Dan Listermann" <dan at listermann.com> Subject: Beer From Dirt Project Jeff Renner mentions an attempt to make beer from dirt in Cincinnati. Guilty as charged. I can grow hops, I can malt barley and I suppose that I could let the atmosphere of the Queen City of the West inoculate wort, but I can't grow barley. In seven attempts over seven years the very best we could do was to sow two pounds of seed and harvest the most pathetic looking 1.5 pounds of what I assume to be barley seeds that should never be shown any other seeds for fear of giving them a complex. Maryanne Gruber of Briess Malting told me that the problem was that I was trying to grow barley in the Ohio Valley which is evidently too humid. Perhaps we could consider wheat beer . . . . Dan Listermann Check out our E-tail site at http://www.listermann.com Take a look at the anti-telemarketer forum. It is my new hobby! Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 18:30:50 -0500 From: "Jeff Tonole" <jtonole at twcny.rr.com> Subject: HB Song So I was listening to this CD that my spouse somehow acquired when we were living in Chicago. It's by Tautologic, a local band, and it includes a song called "Jim's Home Brew." It's the first song I've ever heard that's actually about the process of homebrewing. The phrase "boil the mash" notwithstanding, the lyrics tend to capture the details pretty well. And anyone that can work "amylase," "precipitates," and "isomerize" into a song deserves some props. Here's a link to the lyrics: http://www.tautologic.com/songs/lyrics.html#jimshomebrew You can also listen to the last half of the song here: http://www.tautologic.com/audio/wineis/JimsHome.ram (Unfortunately, most of this snippet is instrumental, but it includes the last verse.) Cheers! jeff tonole SlothBrew -- one of the seven deadly sins Ithaca, NY Celebrating 10 years as a homebrewer this weekend by brewing up a parti-gyle batch of Imperial stout/oatmeal stout! Return to table of contents
Date: 08 Feb 2002 16:04:51 -0800 From: Dion Hollenbeck <hollen at woodsprite.com> Subject: Re: False Bottoms / B*b Kl**n >> Joel Plutchak writes: JP> I dropped a few hundred dollars[*] on some new brewing equipment, JP> including one of those spiffy stainless mash/lauter pots with JP> welded spigot, thermometer well, etc. The perforated SS false JP> bottom that comes with it has just a bit of space between the JP> edges and the wall of the pot when installed. Does anybody who JP> has one of these notice a problem with grain getting underneath JP> and causing problems during lautering? Any other tips for using JP> one of these things before I jump in and use it for the first time JP> (Monday, brewing a Tripel)? Get some Tygon tubing, generally 1/8" ID and thin wall. Slit it down the center and put over edge of false bottom. dion - -- Dion Hollenbeck Email: hollen at woodsprite.com Home Page: http://www.woodsprite.com Brewing Page: http://hbd.org/hollen Return to table of contents
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