HOMEBREW Digest #3984 Tue 09 July 2002

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  Re: Fermenting under pressure (Phil Sides Jr)
  brewing in AZ ("dave holt")
  Re: SG & Alcohol  As of 7/1/02 ("Steve Alexander")
  Yeast Ranching (Tony Barnsley)
  Visiting Belgium ("Lau, William T")
  fermenting under pressure (Alan McKay)
  re: Possibly stupid sparge question (Ken Schwartz)
  Re: SG & Alcohol.  As of 7/8/02 ("Pete Calinski")
  Testing - Water Calculation Spreadsheet ("Bates, Floyd SEPCO")
  Re:  Possibly stupid sparge question ("Cave, Jim")
  Troeg's ESB, Chicken and Pretzels ("Jeff Beinhaur")
  re: how long will bottles stay sanitized (Kevin Crouch)
  RE: Steve is right again (Brian Lundeen)
  RE: Electric element (Brian Lundeen)
  Re: US Electrical System - 240V (Spencer W Thomas)
  cornmeal use thanks and upstate NY BJCP Exam ("Czerpak, Pete")
  Ireland pubs, breweries, etc. recommendations (jwhite)
  Misc (Road Frog)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 00:51:48 -0400 From: Phil Sides Jr <altoidman at altoidman.com> Subject: Re: Fermenting under pressure David Passaretti <dpassaretti at yahoo.com> asks: >Does anyone know if there are any adverse/positive >effects of fermenting under CO2 pressure? Is there any >difference for ale or lager yeast. Is there a safe >pressure range for yeast (eg 10, 20, 30psi)? There was a good article about this in the March/April 2002 issue of The New Brewer. The trials were run during a three month period on 12 ales (6 under pressure and 6 control beers). The pressure ferments were under 15 psi static head pressure. There were interesting (but minor) variations noted by lab analysis and to a lesser degree, a certified taste panel. One hoppy beer's bitterness increased enough to require recipe reformulation (by 2 IBU's). The biggest difference was in the area of brewhouse yield. The pressure ferments averaged 2.2% more beer to the bright tank and thus validated the pressure fermentation method for use in a commercial brewery. This is hardly a motivation for a homebrewer, but may be neat to play with. I have toyed with pressure ferments myself for lagers with mixed results. My motivation was necessity (equipment limitation) though... FWIW, I found an increased sulfur level with some sulfur-throwing yeast strains. In my experience, lagers need to blow this sulfur off. Phil Sides, Jr. Silver Spring, MD Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 00:53:11 -0700 From: "dave holt" <brewdave at hotmail.com> Subject: brewing in AZ Hey brewers. My mind hasn't been on brewing lately. But thanks goodness for the HBD and taking my mind off of things for a brief moment everyday. By now, everyone in the US has heard about the Rodeo-Chediski fire in Arizona. Little under a 1/2 million acre fire. Until disaster is close to home, it is hard to imagine losing everything. The fire came within a 1/2 mile of my house, I was evacuated for 2 weeks. Neighboring communities weren't as lucky. I feel extremely lucky that I can kiss my the grain mill and mag. pump I just bought and haven't used yet. So you western brewers affected my fire and Texas with the floods, you have my sympathy. Have a safe summer guys. It is a good day when I can drink my APA out of the kegerator and know that my 10 gal. of ESB is safe. Priorities man, priorities. Still brewing in AZ. Dave Holt Forest Lakes, AZ I wonder if my ESB will now be a Rauchbier due to the the smoke ;>) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 05:00:04 -0400 From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: SG & Alcohol As of 7/1/02 Pete writes .... > A = (OE-RE) / [2.0665- (0.010665 x OE)] {by weight} [...] The formula you are examining has roots in a study of mass balance of anaerobic maltose fermentation. This study assumes about an 88% fermentation efficiency, (sugar =>CO2 & ethanol) but the figure can vary from the low 80s to low 90s%. Another good estimate but just an estimate - good within a few percent. - ---- A.J.deLange writes ... >WRT the sucrose/wort fiction: some experiments carried out as described >above show that the common sugars (sucrose, maltose, fructose, glucose >and even dextrine) produce solutions whose specific gravities are very >close to one another for a given strength. Hmmm close enough for that Xmas gift hydrometer, but sucrose and maltose differ in SG by about 1% at 15P, dextrins even more. proteins have low enough density to offset much of this error. - --- Phil mentions .... SGdegrees ~= 4*Plato. As AJ said this is untrue and SG and Extract are two different things, not linearly related ... yet we all use that 4X conversion as a 'close enough' estimate. The Lincoln eqn says SGdegrees = P / (0.2586 - 0.0008796*P) now try calculating that in your head ! -Steve Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 11:13:21 +0100 From: Tony Barnsley <tony.barnsley at blackpool.gov.uk> Subject: Yeast Ranching Hi all, I've been having a private discussion with some of the chaps on the UK homebrew group on the subject of yeast ranching. Now I usually store my yeast frozen in a 50/50 mix of glycerol and water, and so far have not had any failures in recovering the yeast (not that I've tried in a while but 18 months and 2 years in cryogenic storage didn't seem too much of a problem) However several of the members have reported having problems with the method I typically use. Typically they fail to wake up after only 2 or 3 months. My method is quite simple. I take 200ml of clean washed yeast slurry (from a primary or starter, and washed three times with sterile distilled water) add 300ml of a 50/50 mixture of Glycerol and sterile distilled water. Leave for 15 minutes then pour into autoclaved bottles and cap. These are then fast frozen and stored at -20C until required. To thaw, the bottles are held under a running cold tap. The yeast then gets pitched into a starter (at a similar temperature) and once activity has started, it gets built up in the normal manner. Now I seem to recall that someone (Dr Cone?, George Fix?) said that freezing in Glycerol is NOT suited to long term storage of yeast slurry. What are the other options, Slants, Sterile Water in the fridge. Being a lazy sort I've stayed away from slants as I don't want to be reculturing every 6 months. Dr Cone said that for long term storage at Lallemand they use slants with a layer of sterile mineral oil in the fridge. Anyone got any further information on the method? It was good to hear all the reports about the NHC, certainly made me want to be there. I did get to thinking that as next year brings about one of those 'significant' birthdays the possibility exists that if I drop enough hints I may be allowed to attend the next one in Chicago . . . . - -- Wassail! The Scurrilous Aleman (ICQ 46254361) Schwarzbad Lager Brauerei, Blackpool, Lancs, UK Rennerian Coordinates (I'm Not Lost! I'm A Man, I don't ask for directions) Email Disclaimer is: http://www.blackpool.gov.uk/democracy/corpdocs/EmailDisclaimer.htm This message has been scanned by F-Secure Anti-Virus for Microsoft Exchange as part of the Council's e-mail and internet policy. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 06:50:30 -0400 From: "Lau, William T" <william.lau at astrazeneca.com> Subject: Visiting Belgium My wife and I are vacationing in Belgium starting this coming Sunday (July 14th). We will be in Brussels, Brugge and a day in Luxembourg City. Does anyone have any recent recommendations on bars, restaurants and "must sees"? E-mail or post. Thanks, Bill Lau AstraZeneca Pharmaceuticals LP 587 Old Baltimore Pike Newark, DE 19702-1307 Phone 302-286-4948 Fax 302-286-3126 william.lau at astrazeneca.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 07:23:45 -0400 From: Alan McKay <amckay at neap.net> Subject: fermenting under pressure My understanding is that fermenting under pressure is the norm in Germany, even among homebrewers. That's about all I know about it, though. cheers, -Alan - -- http://www.bodensatz.com/ The Beer Site (tm) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 05:40:43 -0600 From: Ken Schwartz <kenbob at elp.rr.com> Subject: re: Possibly stupid sparge question Audie writes: "Anyway, what would happen if I added my normal amount of sparge water, STIRRED the grain heavily, and let it sit for another hour, then opened my spigot and drained off that liquid? Or if I added the water and didn't stir? What would be the effect on efficiency on soaking the grain?" These are variations on "no-sparge" brewing. Strictly speaking, no-sparge brewing involves mashing and just running off the wort. Adding additional water just before lautering picks up additional wort and improves efficiency. Intuitively it seems gentle stirring would be better than not but I don't have evidence to support or refute this. Another related technique, "batch sparging", involves running off the wort once, then adding more water, then running off again. This leads to greater efficiency than "no-sparge" but involves extra steps. These techniques are useful when space and/or equipment are limited; no "3rd tier" is needed for a hot-liquor tank for traditional "on-the-fly" (continuous) sparging. The trade-off is in efficiency. Check out my article on the webpage below giving some of the details of the process and calculations. - -- ***** Ken Schwartz El Paso, TX Brewing Web Page: http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer E-mail: kenbob at elp.rr.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:22:49 -0400 From: "Pete Calinski" <pjcalinski at adelphia.net> Subject: Re: SG & Alcohol. As of 7/8/02 First I take care of my Oops-A-Doozy. A 13.6 P solution is 13.6 GRAMS of sucrose in 113.6 GRAMS of solution. That is 13.6 Grams of sucrose with 100 Grams of H2O. I would like to thank everyone that pointed that out to me but it would exceed the 50k byte limit for message length. To follow up on Steve's and Louis' comments about the solute being measured by weight or volume. The definition of Plato is weight but 1 ml (=1 cc) of H2O weights 1 gram (at 4 degrees C). That is by definition. So, if you can accept the error do to the change in density from 4 degrees C to what ever temperature you are working at, 1 ml=1 gm. still. Anyway, back to my quest to make standard solutions simulating the fermentation process. It has been suggested that I use ethanol rather than isopropyl alcohol. I think that is a great idea. Ethanol is much closer to the alcohol(s) being generated in beer during fermentation. It was also suggested that I use corn sugar rather than sucrose. Maybe DME would be even a better approximation to the contents of wort. So while I am in the process of auguring myself into the ground on this, I ask, why did I bring this up in the first place? I started this because I knew of two common instruments used to measure wort during the brewing process. The hydrometer and the refractometer. Both can give an indication of the sugar content of wort but not an actual content because conversions from SG or IoR to sugar (Plato) are based on measurements made with pure sucrose in distilled H2O and wort has other sugars, alcohol, and other substances. Still, comparing to sucrose in H2O seems to be the accepted standard. To make my calibration solutions, I will stick to DH2O, sucrose, and ethanol. So to repeat my process, corrected for errors and using ethanol, to make an initial solution of OG=1.0483 (Plato=12), I will make a solution of 13.6 gm of table sugar in 100 gm of DH2O. Then to simulate that the "wort" fermented 25%, I will make a 9 Plato solution with 1.55% by weight alcohol. I get the % alcohol from: ABW=(OE-RE) / [2.0665 - (0.010665*OE)] ABW=(12-9) / [2.0665 - ( 0.010665*12)] = 1.55% So using 90% ethanol, I would combine 100 gm DH2O with 10.14 gm sucrose and 1.93 gm of ethanol and get what looks like 12 Plato wort, fermented 25%. The equations are: 10.14/(100+10.14+1.93)= 9.05 Plato and 1.93*0.9(100+10.14+1.93)=1.55% Is this reasonable? Can I use the same process to simulate the 50%, 75% and 100% fermented? Pete Calinski East Amherst NY Near Buffalo NY *********************************************************** *My goal: * Go through life and never drink the same beer twice. * (As long as it doesn't mean I have to skip a beer.) *********************************************************** Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 08:43:17 -0500 From: "Bates, Floyd SEPCO" <floyd.bates at shell.com> Subject: Testing - Water Calculation Spreadsheet If anyone would like to assist me in testing a spreadsheet that I create based on AJ DeLange's writings, please e-mail me. Although I have compared it to Mr. DeLange's sample calculations, I think it is ready to have other brewers run it through a test or two. Note that I take into account any water associated with each brewing salt (i.e. MgSO4-7H20). This may cause some confusion when trying to compare the results from my work to others. Cheers. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 06:57:41 -0700 From: "Cave, Jim" <Cave at psc.org> Subject: Re: Possibly stupid sparge question When sparging, you are trying to make use of a density gradient from high sugar in the grain bed to low sugar in the fluid surrounding the grain bed. By maintaining the density gradient throughout the sparging process, you are able to extract much of the sugar from the grain. If you added all the sparge water once, and wait for an hour, you don't make full use of the density gradient. After a few minutes, the sugar concentration in the supernatent (the fluid outside of the grain) will be similar to the sugar concentration in the fluid in the grain. Lots of sugar will be left in the grain. You are referring to a process called "batch sparging", except, by only doing it once, you'll leave a lot of sugar behind in the grain. Jim Cave Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 10:31:40 -0400 From: "Jeff Beinhaur" <beinhaur at msn.com> Subject: Troeg's ESB, Chicken and Pretzels What a pleasent surprise it was to see our local micro featured in Zymurgy. The article on Troeg's ESB was very good and after I showed it to one of the owners of the brewery he said the recipe is right on. If you've never had the opportunity to try this great beer or any of the others that Troeg's produces then you are missing out. Plus the two Trogner brothers are big supporters of the home brewing community in Central Pennsylvania. OK now that I made the post about beer I can go on. The beer can chicken has to be the absolute best that I have ever tasted. This is such a simple but yet so tasteful way of cooking chicken I can't imagine doing it any other way. Last but not least, major kudos to Jeff Renner for the soft pretzel recipe. I tried my first batch yesterday and they were outstanding. I took them to a cookout and they received rave reviews. Not to mention that they were gone so quick I didn't even have any at the picnic. As a decent cook I'm always up to trying new things but usually don't do the dough thing very well. However I was surprised by the simplicity of these. I would like to make a few suggestions for those of you who are dough challenged like me. The recipe calls for shortening. It says to combine all of the "dry" ingredients. Well I'm looking at this shortening and thinking it's not dry so where do I use this. Well in with the dry ingredients dummy. Ok I got through that one. A 1/4 cup of water for the yeast. OK no problem. Now add that to the dry ingredients and mix. Hey this stuff looks awfully dry. Oh add more water. Jeff did say that I just didn't read it since the only water in the list of ingredients was the 1/4 cup for the yeast. Aw now we've got dough. I probably added close to another cup of water. Sounds close Jeff? Let the dough rise until it's doubled. OK no problem there. Now seperate into 12 dough balls. Hmm.... SWMBO offered this idea. Take the entire pile of dough and start rolling it out into a log. Then take a pizza cutter or a knife and then measure and cut 12 even chunks. Worked great. Jeff says to roll each chunk out to 18 to 20 inches. I'd definately go the full 20 inches as the longer ones seemed easier to twist. Speaking of which my 4 1/2 year old daughter and I practiced this with her play dough before using the real stuff. Practice does make perfect. I'd also recommend you keep a small bowl of water handy because if the dough begins to dry a little then when you make the pinchs where the dough meets it doesn't stick to well. Just simply dip you fingers in the bowl of water before you try to make the pinch. Also be careful when you place them a a tea towel after the lye bath. My wanted to stick to the tea towel. Also I baked them on parchment paper. No sticking and easy clean up. One other item was the timing of the baking. I think the recipe says 12 to 15 minutes. Mine were done in 10 so don't just put them in and set the timer to 15. You could end up with hard pretzels or worst yet burnt pretzels. Again thanks Jeff and I would certainly welcome any of you suggestions or comments. Thanks, Jeff Beinhaur The Yellow Breeches Brewery Camp Hill, PA Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 09:39:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Kevin Crouch <kcrouching at yahoo.com> Subject: re: how long will bottles stay sanitized The conversation on sanitized, stored vessels is interesting from a theoretical standpoint, though I wouln't risk it unless I had run out of santizing solution. My own view is that if the vessel is properly cleaned leaving no organic residues, then there should be nothing for any "bugs" left behind in the sanitization to grow on. Most likely they will, depending on the variety, either die, form spores, or cease to grow. Then it becomes a game of numbers when the wort is added and the yeast is pitched. Dr. Pivo's intuition on pH and Hops is right on in some accounts. Lactic acid bacteria such as Lactobacillus and P.damnosus thrive in highly acidic environs, even down to pH 3.5 and hop oils do little to thwart them. Acetic acid bacteria follow the same generalization, but with one major distinction that contradicts one of Dr. Pivo's good guesses. "beer derived from that carboy eventually developed a sour tinge that worsened with time that I'm guessing acetobacter to be the author of." Since acetobacter are aerobic organisms, they can only grow in a well aerated wort pre-fermentation, and then again later if significant air exposure of the fermented beer occured, but this would most likely be noticed as a while scum on the surface. The souring over time sounds to me like a lactic acid bacteria that grew up in the yeast , but I suppose it is possible that it grew on some organic residue inside your sanitized, stored fermentation vessel and then had enough time during the yeasts lag phase to grow to detrimental numbers. Kevin Crouch Vancouver, WA Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 11:55:04 -0500 From: Brian Lundeen <BLundeen at rrc.mb.ca> Subject: RE: Steve is right again Phil Yates wrote: > I just wish Steve would stop getting everything right, soon > we'll be running out of things to argue about. > > Then where will the HBD be?!! > Quite correct, Phil, that's why we need that Graham chap back in here for balance. He get's everything wrong! ;-) Cheers Brian Lundeen Brewing at [314,829] aka Winnipeg Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 12:04:12 -0500 From: Brian Lundeen <BLundeen at rrc.mb.ca> Subject: RE: Electric element Mark Ellis writes: > I bought a element today to fit to my lauter tun to > hopefully be used as a efficient heat source for boiling the > wort. My lauter tun is a converted 50 litre ss keg. Do you > think that a 2400watt element will be sufficient for boiling > temp on 40 litre batches? Just to add to what has already been written, my batches are around 40 liters pre-boil, and I have a converted keg electric boiler, so it is as if the brewing gods had directed you to me for my wisdom. In a word, no. I have two 3000W low watt density elements (I'm told that's important to prevent scorching) and both on full 220V power will get the boil going reasonably quickly. One element is switchable between 110V and 220V, and I find a good steady rolling boil can be achieved with one element on high, and one on low. That works out to about 3750W. I find with only one 3000W element on, I can't maintain a suitable boil, so I would say your 2400W element would fall far short. Cheers Brian Lundeen Brewing at [314,829] aka Winnipeg Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 13:41:10 -0400 From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer at engin.umich.edu> Subject: Re: US Electrical System - 240V About a week ago, Larry Bristol asked about plug/outlet shapes. In the US, plug shape varies according to the voltage, the number of phases, and the amperage. This is true even for 120V plugs. A plug for a 20A appliance should have one "vertical" and one "horizontal" blade (plus the grounding blade, of course) so that you can't plug it into a 15A outlet. If you look at a 20A outlet, you will see that one of the slots is "T" shaped. It will accept either a "standard" (i.e., 15A) plug (two vertical blades) or a 20A plug. When it comes to 240V, you can have a "2-phase" or "3-phase" circuit, with or without grounding (usually with these days!), and with or without a "neutral" conductor (as opposed to the ground conductor). Amperage ratings range from 15 to 40 and up. Each of these has a different shape. Plugs may also be "locking" or not -- a locking plug is twisted after inserting it into the socket to "lock" it in place, so that it won't fall out. http://www.baldor.com/pdf/NEMA.pdf has a nice summary chart of US outlet shapes. Leviton has a more elaborate chart of the "straight blade" configurations. Go to http://www.leviton.com, click on "Tech Support", then on "Straight blade NEMA chart". A google search for "nema chart" reveals many others. I assume that other countries also have variations in their plug shapes, but I don't know the correct search terms to find them. There are lots of charts out there for "standard" plug shapes for various countries. I assume that these correspond roughly to the 15A, 120V plug that is the default plug shape in the US, but that there may be other shapes for higher amperage and/or voltage configurations. =Spencer Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 14:42:44 -0400 From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com> Subject: cornmeal use thanks and upstate NY BJCP Exam Many thanks to Jeff Renner and Marc Sedam on their very well-languaged cornmeal/cereal mash topics. I feel like I have a good understanding of the technical reasoning behind it all now whereas before I just did it because the recipe said so. Someday I'll do a CAP rather than a CACA. Also, I am trying to get enough folks together for BJCP Study Sessions and a possible November BJCP Exam in upstate Albany, NY. If you are at all local to that area and are interested, please reach me at email via: pete_czerpak at hotmail.com. If you just want to take the exam without participating in the study session (Darrell L.??), also let me know as we need a minimum of bodies atleast who can committ. If people will be coming in for the exam, its likely local homebrewers will happily take you in. Hope everybody's brewing summers are going well. I'm finally done with 5 batches plus a mead all for a friend's wedding celebration coming up later this month. FWIW, the mead was brewed last July and is being poured from nice cobalt blue 1 liter fliptops. Too bad the bottles cost more than the mead itself (although not in ageing time). Thanks, Pete Czerpak albany, NY Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 22:22:29 -0700 From: jwhite <jwhite139 at comcast.net> Subject: Ireland pubs, breweries, etc. recommendations Hello, I'm going to Ireland for vacation next month and was looking for recommendations and insight of where the very good to excellent - not to miss -beer/food places are in Southern Ireland. I'm in Dublin a few days and then off to Waterford, Killarney, Bunratty, and County Clare over about 7-8 days. I've got a chauffeur driver for touring the countryside and therefore (theoretically) no problems finding places or worrying about driving! Thanks - Jay Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 19:21:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Road Frog <road_frog_run at yahoo.com> Subject: Misc First good to read you again Dave, and Dr. Pivo! "Alan McKay asks if his sanitised bottles can wait a few days, and I haven't seen a reply yet." I have gone 5 days, with no ill effects. I have not pushed it any farther. I rinse 3 times after empting the bottle, then throw in the dishwasher with bleach. From: Alan McKay <amckay at neap.net> Subject: premashing cereal grains ... Marc Sedam writes an extremely detailed account of what happens in the mash with cereal grains. However detailed the account, I have to disagree with claim that pre-mashing is a requirement : I meant to write this up, blame it on time or embarrassment. Out with SWMBO one day I saw some potato flakes, starch! Long story short, worst brewing day of my life. I just threw it in the mash, only managed to get 4 gallons of wort. Should have been 10! When my wife got home and asked about my day I said, "I should have gone to work!" Glyn Displaced, but closer to the center, MI in a couple of weeks Return to table of contents
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