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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Re: apoptosis & yeast autolysis ("Steve Alexander")
  Re:  low cal beer ("Chad Gould")
  Re: Best mash temps for Durst Pilsner malt? ("Steve Alexander")
  Re: GFI - electrical safety ("Steve Alexander")
  Brewing Beers Like Those You Buy (Tony Barnsley)
  re:all grain setup (David Passaretti)
  Re: All grain setup question   Hi everyone, (Hop_Head)
  Central MA Blues n Brews Festival (Todd Goodman)
  Falling Asleep On The Job ("Phil Yates")
  Brewcraft Pressure Barrel ("John Misrahi")
  bugs (Roy Roberts)
  Re: GFI - electrical safety ("Dr. Michael Iverson")
  RE: Attack of the Killer Spores (Brian Lundeen)
  Hot Break - revisited ("Sweeney, David")
  p-lambic (LJ Vitt)
  Homebrewing on TV ("Jeff Pitblado")
  Torrified Wheat ("Hedglin, Nils A")
  Re: GFI - electrical safety (Tony Verhulst)
  Partial mash set-up (beerbuddy)
  Barleywine Clone ("Andy Mueller")
  Michelob ultra (Marc Sedam)
  Re: All grain setup question ("Dave and Joan King")
  Schneider Wiesen Edel Weisse ("Mark E. Hogenmiller")
  Bitter Beer ("David Craft")
  Administrivia for those who have stopped receiving the HBD (Pat Babcock)


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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 00:35:48 -0400
From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: apoptosis & yeast autolysis

Jeff Renner points to my typo ...

>>Apoptopsis is the 'two bit' term
> 
> [...]Steve, it's apoptosis.

Right.  A little more on yeast autolysis -> proteases.
There is an absorbance at 5740 angstrom which correlates
to proteases.  Thus measured protease levels above 0.01 in slurry
or 0.001 in beer is he maximum acceptable level.  Yeast autolysis
can reportedly push the levels to 10X this amount ['brewing yeast
fermentation performance', K.Smart.ed  pp 194..].
 -S






Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 01:13:56 -0400
From: "Chad Gould" <cgould11 at tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Re:  low cal beer

> So I see an ad for Michelob coming out with a low calorie beer.  What's
the
> deal and what are they doing different than watering down their already
> watered down beer?  Are they merely thinning out the already thin?

Probably a repackaging of their low-carb beer with maybe a higher mash time
with less alcohol (7 calories / gram).

> On this subject, how could one calculate the "theorectical" caloric
content
> of a homebrew and what exactly determines the caloric content?  I would
> assume that a high final gravity would increase the calories in a beer but
> how does a change in mash temp. figure into all of this with the beta vs.
> alpha amalyse issue?

There's a probably-simplified formula here:
http://leebrewery.com/beermath.htm

Actually I've always wondered whether a 3% English mild type beer (e.g. a
low-attenuation beer) could ever under-calorie a 4.5% lite beer (since carbs
are only 4 calories / gram). Probably not, but it's an interesting
postulate.




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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 02:31:51 -0400
From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Best mash temps for Durst Pilsner malt?

I agree w/ JeffR's suggestion that temps under 145F are rarely necessary.
I'd say the exception is that a short rest from 138-143F can reduce haze if
you find it to be a problem.

Durst pilsner malt now carries a generic SNR of 39%-47% !!!   Durst
Munich(Dark) malt is even further 'modified' at 48-50%.    You'd better keep
such malts far away from a protein rest..

 -S





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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 02:57:23 -0400
From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: GFI - electrical safety

Michael Iverson posts some advice re GFI but leaves an
erroneous impression that ungrounded GFIs are OK.
Ungrounded GFIs as acceptable as  retrofit for old 2-wire
circuits but never preferable to a grounded GFI.

>1. A GFI outlet does not require a ground pin for correct operation,
>(but it doesn't hurt in most cases).

Technically correct, but an alternative current path such as one
supplied by a ground is absolutely needed for a GFI to operate
(fault).  Grounding increases the chance for fault detection and
appears to be required for all new installation. 

Consider the case where you drop GFI protected device into
your mash-tun.   If the GFI is ungrounded and the tun is ground
insulated well enough - say on a dry linoleum floor - then your
wort becomes part of the load and you have electrocuted ale.
There is no fault till the carbonized sugars builds up a conduction 
path and pops the breaker at 15 to 30 amps.  Alternatively if the
GFI & cord carry a ground then the GFI will trip at 5 milliAmp
as the hot-to-ground fault circuit carries some of the current.

Include a ground.

- --
Drew Avis says ...

>Tony Verhlust points us to http://www.zymico.com/gfi.shtml for information
>on GFI.  I notice that the site says GFI is incompatible with systems that
>use a solid state relay.  

Not exactly - he says the Leviton 50A unit he is using specifically cannot
handle SSRs.  This hi-current unit is really a separate current mis-match
sensor and power relay (not included).  The current switching
characteristics of an SSR may (a guess) hose the current sensor.  The
online spec page  http://www.leviton.com/pdfs/6895gfci.pdf
doesn't  mention this limitation - it may only be that the output relay
cannot be an SSR.  Can't tell w/o full specs.

 -S




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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 10:39:36 +0100
From: Tony Barnsley <tony.barnsley at blackpool.gov.uk>
Subject: Brewing Beers Like Those You Buy

B Towles Wrote

> In HBD #4044, "Penn, Thomas (MED)" inquired about a recipe for the 
> Brakspear Special Bitter. I've found a recipe but am not sure as to 
> it's authenticity or quality (it looks very old to me, but take it for
> what it's worth). It's from the book "Brewing Beers Like Those You Buy" 
> by Dave Line.

It is very old :> This is the book that started me brewing, decades ago :<.
I have found all of the recipes to yield very good clones, assuming that you
can get the ingredients :> The book has recently been revised (and the less
said about the person doing the revision the better!), to use more modern
ingredients.

There are a few proviso's, 

Dave was very optimistic about efficiency and formulated his recipes for
100% mash/sparge efficiency, (Just as well we all get more than that then :>
). I routinely use 25% More base malt than recommended which works well. 

Dave doesn't quote any Bitterness levels for the recipes, and as the hop
Alphas aren't quoted you tend to get a more bitter beer than you were aiming
for (modern hops 'typically' have higher alphas). SO getting the quoted IBU
content for the beer is a good idea (Try the Real Ale Almanac by Roger
Protz, Camra Press), then simply adjust the hopping schedule to hit the IBU
using your system.

The brewers yeast that was available in the 70's was not particularly good
quality and tended to be very attenuative. In order to compensate for this
and retain some residual sweetness in the beer Dave included 1 saccharin
tablet per gallon, just leave it out and use an appropriate decent brewing
yeast.

As far as the brewing instructions go, Ignore them! Use whatever you
normally do and you won't go far wrong. Just remember that there are
probably 3 hop additions Bittering, Flavour, and Aroma and they get
specified like so

> 3,4,5     2+1/2+1/4 oz.   Goldings Hops               60+15+10 gm.

You _Should_ be able to find a recipe for Bateman's Brew in 'Brew Your Own
real Ale at Home' by Graham Wheeler, which is a much more modern source and
includes more modern ingredients. ISTR that there is a Bateman's recipe in
'Brew Classic European Beers At Home' (also by Gee Dubble Ya) 

- --

Wassail!

The Scurrilous Aleman (ICQ 46254361)
Schwarzbad Lager Brauerei, Blackpool, Lancs, UK

Email Disclaimer is:
http://www.blackpool.gov.uk/democracy/corpdocs/EmailDisclaimer.htm

This message has been scanned by F-Secure Anti-Virus for Microsoft Exchange
as part of the Council's e-mail and internet policy.


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 04:32:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: David Passaretti <dpassaretti at yahoo.com>
Subject: re:all grain setup

I have a two tier 10 gallon system. I built the stand
using slotted angle iron purchased at home depot. The
nice thing about this is that you can take the stand
apart and rearrange it if your system grows or
changes.  It is also easy to attach things to the
stand like chillers, burners, and water filters using
standard comercially available brackets for copper or
iron pipe.  If you do this try to design the stand so
with a minimum number of lengths of angle iron (ie
8foot, 4 foot, and 2 foot lengths).  This makes
changes much easier and limits waste.  Also, use lock
washers in addition to nuts and bolts to keep the
stand stable.  If you use nuts/bolts with hex heads
you can easily use a drill (with appropriate
attachment) to tighten the bolts,making it muich
easier.

David Passaretti
Cincinnati, OH



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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 07:41:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: Hop_Head at webtv.net
Subject: Re: All grain setup question   Hi everyone,

On the rack that I made for my system, I used 1/4" bolts,nuts, and lock
washers, 2 at each point (overkill, but it's strong!).



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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 08:01:09 -0400
From: Todd Goodman <tgoodman at bonedaddy.net>
Subject: Central MA Blues n Brews Festival

On Saturday October 5th at Kimball's Farm in Westford, MA
the 2002 Central MA Blues n Brews festival will be held
from 1pm to 7pm.

Five bands are confirmed (Fat City Band, Chris Fitz Band, Sam Hooper
Group, Magic Dick, Jay Geils & Bluestime, and The Cheryl Arena Band) as
well as twelve breweries (Buzzards Bay Brewing Company, Coastal Extremes
Brewing Company, Concord Brewers, Deja Brew, Harpoon Brewery, Magic Hat
Brewing Company, Paper City Brewing Company, Red Hook Ale Brewery,
Scottish and Newcastle Importers, Wachusett Brewery, Watch City Brewing
Company, and Z Street Brewing Company.)

The Minuteman Hombrew Challenge will also be judged by The Fitchburg
Order of Ale Makers (F.O.A.M.)

More details at http://www.bluesnbrews.com.

I'm not affiliated with any of the above or the organizers, but I might
be working as security for some of the festival.  I'm also a resident of
Westford and it benefits the Westford Rotary.

So stop by and sample some beer and listen to some blues.

If you see a big guy who looks like he's supposed to be working then
please say Hi.

Todd Goodman
Westford, MA
[630.3, 84] Apparent Rennerian


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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 22:28:18 +1000
From: "Phil Yates" <phil.yates at acenet.com.au>
Subject: Falling Asleep On The Job

I read with interest the current discussions on overnight mashing. The
English language is a bit of a pain here because having just made this
statement, no one knows if I am speaking in the past or present tense.
Phonetically, I could be saying "I red with interest" or "I reed with
interest". I intended the latter.
I would have thought you American types would have got on top of this a long
time ago with your propensity for phonetic spelling.

But getting back to the point, I can think of lots of reasons for not doing
an overnight mash. For one thing, it makes mockery of the concept of mash
out.

Perhaps more importantly, here in Australia a man is not considered a man if
he can't even get a brew done in one single session. None of this falling
asleep on the job!! Very poor form indeed!

However, for those who can't stay awake, I guess an overnight mash is a
workable solution. I would have said "balls" to the whole concept but that
Mickey (the robot man) chimed in and said it works just fine. Mickey is the
man who introduced Ayinger and Budvar yeasts to Australia, not that he
probably realises how famous he is. Of course we must never forget that Ray
Kruse is the man who introduced skunk oil to Australia. Ray in his modest
fashion blushes every time I make mention of the matter. He's been very
quiet of late and I wonder if he too has fallen asleep on the job.

Anyway, it sounds as though everything is bumbling along just fine in the
homebrewing world. I myself have moved on to a new plane of brewing. I've
taught Jill how to serve her own beers and now I see light at the end of the
tunnel. Pretty soon I'm going to introduce her to mashing. Maybe the
overnight job will be just the way to get her started. I look forward to the
day I can sit back and enjoy a beer, letting someone else do all the hard
work.

Funny thing you know, that's exactly what I was doing before I embarked on
this passionate exhausting hobby!

Phil



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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 08:54:15 -0700
From: "John Misrahi" <lmoukhin at sprint.ca>
Subject: Brewcraft Pressure Barrel

Hi All
I have come into posession of a BrewCraft Pressure Barrel. (i think made by
edme). It has a tap at the bottom and a lid that screws on and holds a
little pressure injector (takes those small 6g cartridges). I understand
they inject pressure automatically with the intention of keeping a constant
(more or less) 10psi. Has anyone used one of these before? I am curious to
see if it works since it cost me a grand total of 5$ (CAN). I filled it with
water and it doesn't leak so that's a start.

I have a simple bitter in primary, and i may use it as a 'test' beer.

John

Pothole?  Thats luxury!  I have to ferment directly in my mouth.  On brew
day I fill up my mouth with wort in the am and drop a few yeast cells in and
3 hours later I swallow.  Wish I had a pothole to ferment in. -Mike Brennan
on the HBD

"Ah, Billy Beer... we elected the wrong Carter." -Homer Simpson




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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 05:56:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Roy Roberts <psilosome at yahoo.com>
Subject: bugs

Joseph Kish writes:

>"Every cubic foot of air, both outdoors and indoors,
>contains
>100,000 plant spores, 100,000 fungus spores, and
>100,000 bacteria. They fall at the rate of one foot
>in 30 minutes
>but air movement keeps them airbourne"

Uh-huh. I'd love to see the data on that one. Have you
ever left a petri dish uncovered for a few minutes?
What about a simple wort stability test?

>Does he believe that
>"They must not be there"  because he can't see them? 
 
No. It's called experience.





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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 09:54:37 -0400
From: "Dr. Michael Iverson" <mike3 at iversonindustries.com>
Subject: Re: GFI - electrical safety


Steve Alexander writes:

> Michael Iverson posts some advice re GFI but leaves an
> erroneous impression that ungrounded GFIs are OK.
> Ungrounded GFIs as acceptable as  retrofit for old 2-wire
> circuits but never preferable to a grounded GFI.

Yes, it was not the intention of my post to imply that one should 
not use a ground with a GFI. The point was that the GFI
does not require ground for its proper operation, and to point everyone
to a correct source of information.

My concern is there is a lot of hocus-pocus descriptions
of GFI's and ground conductors that I have read on HBD
and elsewhere. One of my favorites is how your computer somehow
"requires" a ground to operate properly, independent of any
of the safety considerations we're discussing here. (Surge 
suppressors are another story.) If that were true, my stereo 
and laptop wouldn't work.

The ground conductor and neutral conductor are electrically
identical to each other.

To better state what I intended to post before:

A ground conductor and a GFI are two independent 
safety systems that are there to protect you from getting 
electrocuted. Each will function, within its limitations,
even in the event of the other failing. 

A GFI trips when there is any current inbalance between
the hot and neutral leads. Such an inbalance implies that there 
is there is a leakage to ground via ANY pathway other than the 
neutral conductor. That pathway could be though a water pipe, 
the floor, your beer, or you. It does not HAVE to be the ground pin.

That being said, you are absolutely correct that one should have a
ground on a GFI outlet. To not have one or the other is to leave
yourself partially protected.

In summary, a ground conductor and GFI protect you in this manner:

The ground conductor (green/bare wire) provides an alternate conductive 
path to ground so that any miswiring or inadvertent shorts will use
it, rather than you, as a conductive path to ground. The case, frame, 
conduit and other metal items on the device should be connected (bonded) 
to the ground to ensure such shorts should reach the safety ground.

If each of the components of your device are not properly bonded to this
ground conductor, it is likely that the ground will not protect you
in any way.

A GFI augments a ground conductor in two ways:

1. Any miswiring or inadvertent short to the ground conductor 
will trip the circuit at 5mA, rather than the full 15-30A required 
to trip the main breaker. No big blue spark.

2. Should the ground conductor somehow fail to operate
as described above, and the circuit is somehow completed 
through you to ground (not neccessarily through the ground conductor) 
the GFI will trip.

The GFI will not protect you if current flows to ground through the 
neutral conductor. For example, if the hot and neutral short together,
the GFI won't trip, but the main breaker should. Or, if you grab the hot
and neutral in each hand, and no current flows through your shoes into 
the ground, the GFI will not trip, and your brewing days may be numbered.

Thanks helping me clarify my point. I hope I didn't further
muddy the waters with my prior post.

Mike

Mike Iverson
Grosse Ile, Michigan, USA
[36.7, 111.7] Apparent Rennerian 











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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 09:50:02 -0500
From: Brian Lundeen <BLundeen at rrc.mb.ca>
Subject: RE: Attack of the Killer Spores

Joseph Kish writes:

> "Every cubic foot of air, both outdoors and indoors, contains 
> 100,000 plant spores, 100,000 fungus spores, and 100,000 
> bacteria. They fall at the rate of one foot in 30 minutes
> but air movement keeps them airbourne"      Does he believe that
> "They must not be there"  because he can't see them? 

I suppose if your yeast pitching rate was a few hundred thousand yeast
cells, this would be cause for alarm. However, since we are talking billions
and billions (as Carl Sagan would say),...

Nobody brews in a sterile environment, but if your pitching rates are
adequate, a little air contact won't hurt a thing in a reasonably clean
environment. In fact, after my in-line filter clogged up, I never bothered
replacing it. I just pump pure, unadulterated basement air into my wort for
an hour or two every time, and have been doing that for a few years. Haven't
noticed any ill effects, YMMV, of course. I'm not saying that as a
recommended course of action for everybody, just don't get all paranoid
about a few floaties. People always say, if you can drink your water, you
can brew with it. I think, if you can breathe your air, you can brew in it.
So, relax, don't worry, have a Miller Genuine Draft. 

Cheers
Brian Lundeen
Brewing at [314,829] aka Winnipeg


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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 10:03:01 -0500
From: "Sweeney, David" <David at studentlife.tamu.edu>
Subject: Hot Break - revisited

I was brewing a clone of Bell's Brown Ale last night and noticed
something strange. I decided to top off late in the boil, rather than
wait until after the chill, in order to sanitize the water addition.  Of 
course, the boil stopped.  I gave my burner some more volume and 
achieved boil in about 5 minutes.  

Here's the strange part.  The boil acted like I had just started the 
boil.  That is, there was a profusion of foam on the surface of the 
wort that dissipated after several minutes of boil.  I assumed that 
the hot break material had been resuspended.  I have two 
questions about this: 1) Am I correct in assuming that the hot break 
was resuspended? 2) What are the effects (positive and negative) 
on the wort by doing this?

David Sweeney
Texas Aggie Brew Club
david at studentlife.tamu.edu


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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 08:22:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: LJ Vitt <lvitt4 at yahoo.com>
Subject: p-lambic 


In HBD#4054, John Misrahi asked about grist composition for lambic.

I am quoting from a pamplet Cantillion gives you when youi tour
the brewery.

Wheat (unmalted) 35% (450 kg)
malted barley    65% (850 kg)
hops                  (22 kg)
batch size 7,500 liters

I suggest using malted wheat.  The turbid mash program sounds very long.
I made a couple of lambics using malted wheat, and I fermented with
just the wyeast lambic blend.  Mine had too much hop bitterness with
4 oz of old brown whole EK Goldings.

Single step infusion makes it an easy mash.
I ignored making sure the mash completed and recirculation.

I'll let others comment on adding brett.
I haven't done it.  I do observe others are more successful than
I have been by adding at some point after primary fermentation.

Be careful with your equipment! Any hose, plastic bucket, airlock
I used on lambic will never be used on other beer styles.

 

=====
Leo Vitt
Rochester MN



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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 08:32:24 -0700
From: "Jeff Pitblado" <jplists at cox.net>
Subject: Homebrewing on TV

The Good Eats homebrewing episode will finally be aired on October 9th on the
Food TV network.  It should be on at 6:00, but check your local listings.

On a related note, I went to a demonstration class hosted by Alton Brown (the 
host of Good Eats) yesterday.  I asked him about the show & he said that he's 
been homebrewing for a while, so it should be interesting.  He made a simple 
pale ale with Goldings & Cascade hops.



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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 08:48:32 -0700
From: "Hedglin, Nils A" <nils.a.hedglin at intel.com>
Subject: Torrified Wheat

Hi,
  What affect would Torrified Wheat in a batch?  I've only found references to 
Torrified Barley that could be used to prevent a stuck mash since it's puffed.
Thanks,
Nils
Sacramento, CA 


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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 13:25:56 -0400
From: Tony Verhulst <tony.verhulst at hp.com>
Subject: Re: GFI - electrical safety


> Tony Verhlust points us to http://www.zymico.com/gfi.shtml for information
> on GFI.  I notice that the site says GFI is incompatible with systems that
> use a solid state relay.  My system uses an SSR to switch the 220V circuit.
> Can anyone suggest an alternative (either to the SSR or the GFI) or
> work-around?

Since I use GFIs and SSRs, I asked Zymie about the incompatibility. He
said not too worry - it's fine. The comment refers specifically to SSRs,
GFIs AND, the current transformer ("doughnut"). You (and me) should be
all set. See my control panel at
http://home.attbi./com/~verhulst/RIMS/panel_001.htm.

Tony V
http://home.attbi/com/~verhulst/RIMS/rims.htm.


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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 19:18:48 +0000
From: beerbuddy at attbi.com
Subject: Partial mash set-up

Hi folks. Ok, I was content to keep brewing all extracts 
until I joined this list. Y'all have gotten me just a 
bit too intrigued to stop there. I want to slowly wade 
in to all-grain, and thought that just adding a little 
cost at a time shouldn't alarm the wife too much. Please 
tell me what you think of this plan: I'm currently 
brewing with a four gallon brew kettle, six gallon 
primary/bottling bucket and five gallon carboy. My 
thought to start doing partial mash/partial extract 
brewing is to buy one more brew kettle and do parallel 
boils on the 'lectric stovetop (I'm in an apartment 
tucked into very dry, very dense protected forests, so 
deck burners are not an option), and just getting a 
false bottom for my six gallon all purpose bucket for 
sparging. Any thoughts? will this work, at least for the 
short term?

Now, to kick off my brewing in this style I thought I 
would try to create a new recipe for a dunkelweizen by 
using about 5 lbs wheat extract, 2 lbs vienna malts, 2 
lbs american 6 row, 1/2 lb chocolate, and about 20 IBUs 
of probably cascade bittering hops. I didn't think 
finishing hops was appropriate, and thought I would use 
a bavarian weizen yeast. 

Thanks as always for the incredible responses on and off 
list, this list and its members are a phenomenal 
resource. 

Timothy
North Bend, WA
beerbuddy at attbi.com


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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 14:27:08 -0500
From: "Andy Mueller" <pdogbrewery at yahoo.com>
Subject: Barleywine Clone

Hi everyone,
After thoroughly enjoying Avery Brewing Co.'s Hog Heaven Barleywine Style
Ale I was wondering if anyone has worked out a clone of it. I am looking for
something similar to do as my first barleywine (all grain).

Thanks,
Andy Mueller
Brewing just north of Houston, Tx in the sleepy city of Oak Ridge North.



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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 17:41:36 -0400
From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu>
Subject: Michelob ultra

So I read the description of Michelob Ultra.  Lessee...fewer 
carbs...diluted...more alcohol...less flavor...it all sounded kinda 
familiar.  Then Bob Hewitt put it all together for me

"...AB is doing a 4-hour mash..."

Wouldn't this product exaclty resemble Michelob DRY and all those 
godforsaken dry beers of the early 90s?  Same thing...more 
alcohol...more fully fermented...less flavor.  Why ask why? Elementary, 
my dear HBD.

Folks...in the end, at their level it's all about marketing.



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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 20:25:48 -0400
From: "Dave and Joan King" <dking3 at stny.rr.com>
Subject: Re: All grain setup question

Joe,

Drill and bolt angle iron works, but here are a ton of ideas.
http://www.barleys.nl/  Go to the "Thuisbrouwerijen (Homebrewery Index),"
top of the 1st page.

   Dave King, BIER (Brewers In the Endicott Region)
             [396.1,89.1] Apparent Rennerian



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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 18:52:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Mark E. Hogenmiller" <hogenmiller at yahoo.com>
Subject: Schneider Wiesen Edel Weisse

Has anyone tried to clone Schneider Wiesen Edel
Weisse?  The importers web-site
http://www.bunitedint.com/Products/schneider-2.html
indicates that this is a revival of Wheat Octoberfest
beer that was phased out in 1942 due to the loss of
the Schnieder Munich Brewery during WWII and in now
exclusively brewed for the US Market with Cascade
hops.
Brewing Process: Primary ferm in open vessels for
three days at 68 F. Secondary ferm in the bottle for
seven days at same temp. Cold Maturation at 50 F for
21 days. 
Hops: Hallertauer Magnum, Cascade 
Malt: Wheatmalt "Atlantis", barley malt "Scarlett" 
Recipe suggestions would be appreciated.

In the past I have had good success in Cloning
Schneider Weisse with the bottle-cultured yeast.

TIA!
Mark Hogenmiller
BURP Homebrew Club
Green Tiger Brewery
hogenmiller at yahoo.com
Burke, VA




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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 20:05:41 -0400
From: "David Craft" <chsyhkr at bellsouth.net>
Subject: Bitter Beer

Greetings,

I made a Vienna on Fathers Day for fall consumption.  It is great in all
respects.  Malty, but not too much with good hop flavor and
aroma...........Only it is too bitter for the style.  It went to a local
contest and both judges said too bitter.  I knew it going in...........Both
said "hop bitterness" and not astringency.  I don't think it was technique
if it wasn't astringent. My water is very soft and I did add some calcium,
no sulfate.

 I used a good bit of low AA German hops and shot for 25 IBU's.  Still too
bitter.  I ran it through Pro-Mash too...........

Has anyone suffered the same fate?  Could it be mislabeled hops?

Regards,

David B. Craft
Battleground Brewers Homebrew Club
Crow Hill Brewery and Meadery
Greensboro, NC



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Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 22:31:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: Administrivia for those who have stopped receiving the HBD

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your trigger-happy netadmin...

I have been receiving mail from individuals who are curious why
they are suddenly not receiving their beloved Digest.
Unfortunately, I cannot communicate with these people. You see,
the Digest is sent out as bulk. For many a shortsighted
netadmin, bulk=spam. Yes, Virginia, your netadmin has excluded
all mail from the HBD and, sometimes, from every machine in our
IP block.

Most of the time, I bend over backwords to ty to get word out to
those complaining that they can either get the block lifted by
their admin, or they can read the Digest from the web using the
"HTMLized Digest" pick at http://hbd.org, but I felt a
"general" announcement might be in order as a means to save me
precious time, and for you to avoid the frustration of what
appears to be being ignored...

Backl to brewing! 

- -- 
 -
God bless America!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock
[18, 92.1] Rennerian
"I don't want a pickle. I just wanna ride on my motorsickle"
                                   - Arlo Guthrie




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