HOMEBREW Digest #4060 Mon 07 October 2002

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  false bottom help? ("Kirk McDonald")
  re : in the backwoods of columbia (Alan McKay)
  Re: beer X has taste Y (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Sunlight, Hops, and Outdoor Brewing ("Chad Gould")
  Re:  beer X has taste Y ("David Houseman")
  Tropical hops and Colombian ("Dave Burley")
  Dave Line and sugar, Colombian Brewer's Yeast ("Dave Burley")
  Ion/water softener and pH ("Dave Burley")
  RIMS Cleaning -- Is CIP OK? ("Lou King")
  Zepto-sized brewing in a growler?? (Robert Marshall)
  Schneider Wiesen Edel Weisse Clone ("Mark E. Hogenmiller")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 15:02:26 +0930 From: "Kirk McDonald" <kirem at ihug.com.au> Subject: false bottom help? Hi, I am building up a HERMS system using a deal of PC controlled automation. I plan to pump continuously and regulate the flow either through a heat exchange coil in the HLT or bypass the heat exchanger and back into the mash tun, I will also eventually have the ability to regulate the pump, probably by using pulse frequency to adjust the duty cycle. Amongst other uses I am using level control to prevent a compacted mash bed. I know this has been covered a thousand times but I am still confused. Is there an ideal hole size and spacing for a false bottom and what about thickness. I have access to hex close pack pattern stainless steel sheet but I have no knowledge on what combination of hole size, spacing and thickness to use in a 50l sankey keg. Regards, Kirk Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 08:02:24 -0400 From: Alan McKay <amckay at neap.net> Subject: re : in the backwoods of columbia Whoops, forgot to copy the HBD on my reply : > Raw unprocessed honey is readily available. It is relatively inexpensive as > well. Can you point me to information on how to use the honey for this > process? Well, like I said I've never done this so I don't know how much honey you'll need. But I'd start by mixing 1 part honey to 2 parts extract, and add enough water so that it is stirrable. You don't want to add all your water at this point though because enzymes prefer a thicker 'mash'. Now hold this at 150F to 160F for an hour. If it all converts then maybe you can get away with less honey next time. If not, then maybe you need more. > I did a before test on some of the dry extract using iodine from a medical > kit. The iodine was a yellow color on regular table sugar, and black as > night on the dme. Yup, there's starch there! You'll get purple if you mash closer to 160F, and closer to yellow as you get down to 150F. 160F is fine it just gives you bigger sugars, some of which won't be fermentable so you'll get a heavier bodied beer. > >That's about it. I think you want about 3% water, which is > >quite dry. > > I don't quite follow- could you please clarify what you mean by 3% water? That's the water content of the dried malt. Basically what it means is you do not want it bone dry. It's extremely dry though - when you break open a malt it's all crunchy and you'd never guess there were any water in there. I should know exactly how this is measured because my friend owns a hardwood kiln and they use the same technique for measuring water content of the wood. I think you weigh it completely wet and soaking, then dry a sample portion completely bone dry and weight it again. You take the difference of the weights and that would be 0% water content. Now work out what weight would be 3% water content and aim for that by testing. But that's getting really, really picky and I doubt you have to be that picky. And like I said I don't even recall if 3% is the right number so I wouldn't worry about it. cheers, -Alan - -- http://www.bodensatz.com/ The Beer Site (tm) Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 09:47:15 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net> Subject: Re: beer X has taste Y "Joe O'Meara" <omeara at onewest.net> writes: > Alan McKay <amckay at neap.net> asks [for] examples of a >specific beer flavour. ... > >And here's my two cents worth: <snip> >Lactobacillus(sp?): Guiness Stout It has been argued that Guinness adds 3% soured beer to its final product, but this has never been confirmed. I don't find any particular lactic acid tang or aroma in Guinness. The spiderweb plot on p. 77 of Michael Lewis's Classic Style Series book _Stout_ shows Guinness much lower than Samuel Smith's Oatmeal Stout on sourness (but higher than Sierra Nevada stout)but with more acetic aroma than either. note that this later is acetic (as in acetic acid), not acidic. >Yeast: Rolling Rock. Nuff said. Rolling Rock is very high in DMS (dimethyl sulfate) and is an excellent example for palate education. DMS is a product of the malt, not of brewers yeast, although bacterial infections can also produce it. >Adjuncts: Dare I say Budweiser? Let it warm up a bit first to get the >green apple smell. The green apple smell does not come from rice adjunct, which is very neutral, and acts mostly as a malt diluent as far as flavor or aroma. Corn arguably has more flavor and aroma, but it too is subtle. It is often assumed that the green apple smell in Budweiser comes from acetaldehyde, which does have a green apple smell. But when the director of the A/B pilot brewery took a bunch of us on a tour of the St. Louis pilot brewery two years ago as part of MCAB-2, he insisted that Bud has acetaldehyde levels below detectable. He was very definite on this point in the face of questioning from us about the green apple flavor. Since he was extremely forthcoming about every single thing we asked (he said there were no secrets about making Bud, anyone with A/B's money could do it), I have no reason to think that he was misleading us on this. I have to conclude that the apple flavor in Bud comes from something else, either process or the yeast, more likely the latter. Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 12:38:40 -0400 From: "Chad Gould" <cgould11 at tampabay.rr.com> Subject: Re: Sunlight, Hops, and Outdoor Brewing > We all know that sunlight can skunk a bottled beer. Thanks to my wife's > hatred for the wonderful aroma of homebrewing, I have been banished to > the back porch. Since then I've brewed several hoppy beers, directly > under the noon sun, and without a lid (due to the ever present boil over > problem). So far I have yet to get any skunky characters. Believe me, > I'm not complaining. My question is: > Can anyone tell me why we get this skunking in a finished beer but not > in boiling wort? Firstly, hop skunking is only present in wort that has been boiled - hop compounds have to be isomerized in the boil first. I imagine that there is minimal skunking actually going on when you are merely boiling the beer in the sun. Skunking (from what I've been told) will reverse itself eventually if left in the dark for a couple of weeks, so I don't think you have that much of a problem boiling the beer in the sun one way or the other. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 19:37:32 -0400 From: "David Houseman" <housemanfam at earthlink.net> Subject: Re: beer X has taste Y Joe O'Meara offers the following: "And here's my two cents worth: Hops: Sierra Nevada Pale Ale. Classic Cascade aroma and flavor...Also, Bridgeport IPA for dryhopping Lactobacillus(sp?): Guiness Stout Sweet in the finish: Pyramid Broken Rake. I don't know if this beer will be out this year or not, but I fell in love with it last year. Yeast: Rolling Rock. Nuff said. Adjuncts: Dare I say Budweiser? Let it warm up a bit first to get the green apple smell." Puleeeze. Guinness Stout does NOT have lactobacillus by any stretch of the imagination, unless there is an anomalous infection. Rolling Rock may have some DMS but no yeast aromas! And Budweiser intentionally ensures some acetaldehyde, or green apple (bruised apple is a better description) but this IS NOT because of any of the adjuncts. I'd suggest a review of flavors from various back issues of Zymurgy and Brewing Techniques as well as numerous brewing texts. Take a look at the BJCP Style Guidelines on-line at www.bjcp.org and compare the style descriptions with the listed commercial examples. David Houseman Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 10:22:05 -0400 From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net> Subject: Tropical hops and Colombian Brewsters: Adam Austin's brewing concerns in Columbia bring several things to mind: 1) "cheaper than dirt" barley may have been treated with some sort of anti-fungal substance if it is intended to be planted. Be sure to use only the animal feed variety which may not be as good at sprouting but safer. 2) I am puzzled by the available malt extract unless its purpose is intended as a baking additive. Which is likely. I'd check with the manufacturer to see if you can get a version which is more suitable for brewing. It may be that hoembrewing in Colombia is illegal. And may explain the form of the malt extract. Do your homework first. 3) enzymes may do the job but should be denatured by a boil after they do their job. Also they will attack the existing dextrins in the extract and you may not get a suitable beer. If you use the enzymes you may have to boil the extract first to make the starch available for the enzymes. Of course, if you can get some malt, you can always use it to convert the starch in the extract and reduce your need to import quantities of malt. I suspect the local breweries or maltsters could supply you with some malt if you ask. 4) order your hops in those vacuum packs. Shipping is not much and you will be much more satisfied. Tropical hops do not do well as they need some down time. Don't know if it will work but, you could try a trick used by tropical grape growers and that is to withhold water ( if you can) and strip the leaves or cut them off to provide a false winter. Keep on brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 11:29:02 -0400 From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net> Subject: Dave Line and sugar, Colombian Brewer's Yeast Brewsters: I read "Brewing Beers Like Those You Buy" when Dave Line was stilll alive and the book was in its first British edition when I lived there, as I recall. Jon Savage says don't add sugar if you don't want to. Turns out the Brits do add sugar in the commercial breweries and have for a couple of centuries. As far as I know, Line's sugar addition level is researched and is appropriate for the brew in question and not done to save money as was the cases in so many of the early British HB books. So if it says sugar in his recipe add the amount and type to be correct. - ----------------------- I meant to mention in my earlier note to Adam in Colombia. Likely the Brewer's yeast available to you in profusion has been steam treated and therefore is dead and useful only as a nutrient source of vitamin B complex.. Before I'd use it in my brew, I'd try it on a test batch to see if it is viable. Keep on brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 11:38:59 -0400 From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net> Subject: Ion/water softener and pH Brewsters: Michael Hackney has recently moved from a city water supply to a well and wonders if pH paper is adequate to check the pH of the water for adjustment. The pH of the water is irrelevant as the calcium, and to some extent the magnesium content, of the mash liquor (brewing water) and the grist makeup control the pH of the mash. If your water source is a well ( as mine was when I lived in NJ) and you soften it and ion exchange it ( as I did) you should have no problem except carbon dioxide in it. A quick boil or air scrub should solve that problem if you want to. I'd use the water ( which should be ion free) as you get it and modify it with calcium for ales and the like. For lagers, I wouldn't touch it. If you insist, then add 20 ppm as calcium chloride. If you drink the deionized water as your sole source, be sure to add a regimen of micronutrients and minerals to your diet to replace thsoe normally gotten from the water supply. Keep on brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 12:26:25 -0400 From: "Lou King" <lking at pobox.com> Subject: RIMS Cleaning -- Is CIP OK? For the longest time, I have been considering building a RIMS system. Yesterday I finally started ordering the parts for the system, and it has dawned on me that this might, in fact, increase the time it takes for me to finish cleaning on brew day. (Why do these things always dawn on me just after I spend a bunch of money? :) ) In any case, it seems to me that using the RIMS pump, and possibly the heater itself, might be a good way to do a clean in place (CIP) process for my mash tun, the pump, the heating chamber, the heating element, and the piping. But I do worry about all of the nooks and crannys which might be missed by a CIP procedure. I saw back in HBD #3936 (May 9, 2002) that this same question was posed, but I only found one response. The respondant disassembles his system, which wasn't the answer I wanted to hear ;-) 1. Are there people out there who use RIMS and have had success pumping PBW (or something else) through their RIMS chamber, etc? 2. Are there people out there who have had disasters using CIP procedures with their RIMS? Lou King Ijamsville, MD Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 09:58:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Marshall <robertjm1 at yahoo.com> Subject: Zepto-sized brewing in a growler?? I'm sure its been done, but nobody has discussed it here yet (I searched the HBD before posting). Has anyone brewed a complete batch in a growler? Obviously, fermentation wouldn't be an issue, since you're using a cork and airlock to release CO2. What about carbonation? A growler will hold fermented beer from a microbrwery for a couple of days, but its not exactly designed to naturally carbonate in it. Anyone have any sucesses/failures attempting this? I want to experiment with some zepto-sized batches, rather than make 2.8/5 gallons at a time, and so figured I'd ask here whether anyone has done this yet, or not. BTW: In case you're wondering what's a zepto?: http://info.astrian.net/jargon/terms/q/quantifiers.html (A yocto would be a 12 oz. bottle batch :-O ) Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 16:46:20 -0700 (PDT) From: "Mark E. Hogenmiller" <hogenmiller at yahoo.com> Subject: Schneider Wiesen Edel Weisse Clone Based on the responses that I received to my request for a Schneider Wiesen Edel Weisse Clone in Homebrew Digest #4055 (October 01, 2002). This is the recipe I formulated. Any feedback would be appreciated. Schneider Wiesen Edel Weisse Clone Style: 19b Weizen/Weissbier Min Recipe Max O.G. 1.046 1.051 1.056 T.G. 1.008 1.013 1.016 Alc % 4.9 5.0 5.5 I.B.U. 10 14.6 15 S.R.M. 3 3.4 9 Ingredients for 5.5 gallons: 6.5 lbs German Wheat Malt (MASH) 3.5 lbs German Pilsner 2-row (MASH) 0.5 oz Northern Brewer 7% BOIL 60 minutes 1 oz Cascade 5% FINISHING 20 minutes Yeast: Culture from Schneider Weizen Bottle Boil Time: 60 minutes Mashing Procedure: Mash Efficiency: 75% Add 3.13 gallons of water at 133 to heat mash to 122 Add 1.91 gallons of boiling water to heat mash to 152 Notes: Use a two-step infusion mash at 122 degrees F for 20 minutes for protein rest. Add required amount of boiling water to raise to 152 degrees F. Hold for 45 minutes or until starch converts. Mash out at 170 degrees F. Hold for 5 Minutes. Sparge with 170 degrees F water until 6.5 gallons of wort have collected. After boiling and cooling adjust volume of wort in Primary Fermenter to 5.5 gallons with distilled water if necessary. Ferment at 68 degrees F. Rack from primary fermenter two to four days after primary fermentation activity has stopped and yeast settles to bottling bucket. Secondary fermentation in the bottle for seven days at 68 degree F. Cold Maturation at 50 degrees F for 21 days. Mark Hogenmiller BURP Homebrew Club Green Tiger Brewery hogenmiller at yahoo.com Burke, VA > From: "Mark E. Hogenmiller" <hogenmiller at yahoo.com> > Subject: Schneider Wiesen Edel Weisse > > Has anyone tried to clone Schneider Wiesen Edel > Weisse? The importers web-site > http://www.bunitedint.com/Products/schneider-2.html > indicates that this is a revival of Wheat Octoberfest > beer that was phased out in 1942 due to the loss of > the Schnieder Munich Brewery during WWII and in now > exclusively brewed for the US Market with Cascade > hops. > Brewing Process: Primary ferm in open vessels for > three days at 68 F. Secondary ferm in the bottle for > seven days at same temp. Cold Maturation at 50 F for > 21 days. > Hops: Hallertauer Magnum, Cascade > Malt: Wheatmalt "Atlantis", barley malt "Scarlett" > Recipe suggestions would be appreciated. > Return to table of contents
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