HOMEBREW Digest #4092 Wed 13 November 2002

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  Cleaning Aeration stone ("Michael O'Donnell")
  Re: priming ("greg man")
  wine, beer, and dementia (Rama Roberts)
  high gravity pitching ("chad. . . .")
  Drilling stainless/ mash tun design? ("Parker Dutro")
  Recipe for Prague Dunkel ("Livia Gaffield")
  Re: Altbier water profile ("Tom Lombardo")
  Classic American Pilsner Recipe/Report/Ranting (william.m.menzl)
  RE: Sanitizing Question ("Walker, Randy")
  Schlenkerla (Calvin Perilloux)
  Re: barleywine pitching (Jeff Renner)
  water profiles (Marc Sedam)
  Re: Rack and add water? (Jeff Renner)
  Re: hops...different with corn? (Jeff Renner)
  Subject: Gott Cooler Mashing - Capacity/Efficiency/Strike Temps ("Mike Racette")
  Kegging/Bottling Basics (william.m.menzl)
  Re: Ideal Conditions for a Yeast Starter (Demonick)
  Re: Horehound Beer (Bill Wible)
  Re: Altbier water profile (Jeff Renner)
  RE: experiments with corn.... (Inland-Gaylord)" <BSmith51 at ICCNET.COM>
  Re: refrigerator tubing as wort chiller? ("Mike Sharp")
  re: what happened? (LJ Vitt)
  sodium hypochlorite? (darrell.leavitt)
  starter question (Himsbrew)
  "Why Life's a Bleach" (more on Sodium Hypochlorite) (darrell.leavitt)
  From whence doth "tripel" derive? (Pat Babcock)
  HBD # 4091 Bottle conditioning ("Fred Scheer")
  Horehound in Beer (J & B Gallihue)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 20:12:38 -0800 From: "Michael O'Donnell" <mooseo at stanford.edu> Subject: Cleaning Aeration stone At 12:45 AM 11/11/2002 -0500, you wrote: >Can I assume from the air filter that your yeast aerater came from 3B? >If so a couple of tips, I am looking for advice on cleaning my aeration stone. I have the 3B one mounted on a metal cane. I have been boiling it to clean it before and after use, but then it ends up filled with water. I am wondering what kind of beasties are probably living in there as it dries. Does anyone have a better suggestion for cleaning and storing my aeration stone? thanks, mike Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 00:14:39 -0500 From: "greg man" <dropthebeer at hotmail.com> Subject: Re: priming Speaking of priming, I was wondering how fermentable is Belgian candy sugar? I was thinking 100% but I wanted to make sure. The reason of course is simple I don't want my hard work to become flat or explosive. I was thinking 4 oz or 1/4 lb to 5 oz as I like my Belgian ales to be well carbonated. Almost like a weizen. Thanks in advance..............gregman Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 22:36:38 -0800 (PST) From: Rama Roberts <rama at eng.sun.com> Subject: wine, beer, and dementia A study claiming wine drinkers have a lower risk of developing Alzheimer's and other forums of dementia, while "regular beer drinkers actually had a higher risk of developing dementia." The study admits there are other variables which could contribute to their findings, including diet. The article goes on to say: '"We have no satisfactory explanation for the increased risk of dementia associated with beer," the researchers added. But they noted that beer drinkers sometimes have deficiencies in B vitamins critical for brain and nerve function.' http://www.cnn.com/2002/HEALTH/conditions/11/11/wine.dementia.reut/index.html But you know, yeast is high in vitamin B (B1, B2, B3, B6). It'd be interesting to see a long term study of wine vs filtered macrobrew (ie budmillwiser) vs homebrew and their health affects. - --rama Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 22:50:16 -0800 (PST) From: "chad. . . ." <eclectic_solitaire at yahoo.com> Subject: high gravity pitching I sent an email to wyeast asking a few questions and got a prompt reply, wish id saved it to pass along but the crux of my questions involved high gravity worts/musts. (mead and barleywine) Noting the barleywine thread I thought id mention the advice I was given. *note- following this suggestion will mean you will most likely have to force carbonate* Using a high alcohol yeast or champane yeast, prepare the wort to an OG in the .060 range and allow it to ferment out, upon racking to secondary, add remainder of fermentables to bring SG back up and ferment again, repeat process as needed. The reasons for this I believe are twofold. One, you are not pitching into an excessively high gravity wort/must and Two, will be less stress on the yeast as its pushed to its abv% tolerance. While I've yet to do this with a barleywine, I do this regularly with ales and meads. In fact the ale I racked to secondary today is the first batch of anything I have not added something extra to in quite awhile. *on a different note* the clean-out-the-supply-bin ale I made several weeks ago is now in mini's and bottles. too green yet to say for sure but the test bottle i drank today makes me think IPA by flavor and aroma but mouthfeel and color suggest a deep porter. hoppy but tasty. ===== cq cq cq cq dx de KM5QF k k kn? Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 00:43:23 -0800 From: "Parker Dutro" <ezekiel128 at edwardwadsworth.com> Subject: Drilling stainless/ mash tun design? Last brew day rendered my 5.5 gallon plastic cooler/mash tun unusable. The heat took its toll and severely warped the inside. So now that I am in a position to invest in more equipment, I am thinking of converting one of my 15gln. S.S. pots into a mash/lauter tun. I think that to do this I need to drill a hole for a spigot. I have read that sanitary welding is the best mode, but is there an alternative, perhaps putting together a spigot assembly with washers and nuts like you find in an Igloo picnic cooler (of course using metal components instead of plastic). Any ideas are welcome. Thanks. Parker Dutro "Excuse me doctor, but I think I know a little something about medicine!" -Homer Simpson Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 12:30:10 +0100 From: "Livia Gaffield" <swissliv at freesurf.ch> Subject: Recipe for Prague Dunkel Hi, Does anybody have a recipe for a Prague Dunkel ? I'm not sure if that is the proper name for the style. It's a rich brown beer and I believe it's lager. I've had it in Pragus and recently in Vienna, some of the brewpubs had it and they referred to it as "Prague Dunkel". Anyway, a great beer and difficult if not impossible to buy in the bottle so I thought as lager season approaches, I'd like to make one. Regards, RAY Gaffield Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 06:53:31 -0600 From: "Tom Lombardo" <toml at ednet.rvc.cc.il.us> Subject: Re: Altbier water profile Petr writes: ~I am planning to do a Duesseldorfer style Altbier on the weekend. I have ~read through the archives and my recipe is inspired by Al Korzonas' recipe ~posted in HBD #2827 (except I will need to substitute some of the Munich ~malt for Vienna as I dont have enough). ~ ~The one thing I cant seem to find in the archives is the appropriate water ~profile for a Duesseldorfer Altbier. I have very soft, neutral water, low ~in total dissolved solids, and typically use just a little Calcium ~Chloride ~to boost the Ca level when brewing Pilsners or light lagers. ~ ~Can I assume that Altbier would require a similar water profile to a ~pilsner? According to Al's book, if you start with distilled H2O, you should add 2 teaspoons of food-grade chalk, and 1/3 teaspoon of gypsum. I brewed the Altbier recipe from Al's book, and it turned out great! Tom Rockford, Illinois Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 08:55:32 -0500 From: william.m.menzl at dowcorning.com Subject: Classic American Pilsner Recipe/Report/Ranting Back in August I decided that I would try making a Classic American Pilsner and asked for some suggestions from the Home Brew Digest (#4021). I got a lot of good information both on the digest and via personal e-mails! Jeff Renner requested "Please report back on your results" in HBD # 4024 and this note is that report. I am severely impressed and can't say enough about this beer! I now see why Jeff and others have been touting this beer for so long. I am also dismayed that this flavor is not available commercially. Add my name to those who highly recommend it! The real test comes this weekend at deer camp when I put it up against the swill the other guys drink. I sure hope they don't like anything but water flavor as I want to keep it all to myself! The recipe I used is as found in John Palmers "How to Brew" (http://www.howtobrew.com) for "Your Fathers Moustache" with just the sacharification rest as Jeff suggested. I have copied the recipe modified with my faults and changes below. This was my second all-grain batch (four more since) and being a newbie at it, I followed the suggestions in "How to Brew" for water adjustment. National Midnight Star Classic American Pilsner Adapted from the recipe "Your Fathers Moustache" as credited to Jeff Renner in John Palmer's book "How to Brew". Note: Recipe is how it was done and not necessary how it should be done. 7 pounds of 6-Row Base Malt 1.75 pounds of Flaked Maize Crack the malt and mash with maize at 149 degrees F for 1 hour. Jeff and others suggest 146-148F for a more attenuated beer, or 153-155F for a less attenuated one. Mash adjusted to pH 5.3 at mash temp with ~ 1.5 tsp CaCl2 Sparge with 170 degrees F water with a FWH of 3 HBU Saaz. (Note: runoff real clear after a very short time!) My efficiency was 76% so technique needed some work. Bring to boil and add 7.2 HBU of Cluster. Add 1 caterpillar at some unknown time during the boil. Found later during transfer to primary. (I assume this is optional for the great taste, I love outdoor brewing!) After 50 minutes add 2.7 HBU of Tettnang and 1 tsp Irish Moss After 60 minutes, cut heat and add 1.3 HBU of Tettnang. Allow to steep 15 minutes. Cool the wort. Transfer to Primary fermentor removing hops/break. Add a starter of Wyeast Bavarian Lager Yeast #2206. Ferment at 48 degrees F for 19 days. Transfer to secondary and diacetyl rest at 60 degrees for ~ 36 hours. Wash yeast from primary and store cool for later use. Lower secondary to 35 degrees F and lager for 6.5 weeks. Bottle with 1.25 cups of Extra-light DME and a little of the saved yeast. I just started kegging and this is going to be on tap at all times. It is that good! William Menzl Midland, Michigan [99.8, 344.8] Apparent Rennerian ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 06:12:58 -0800 From: "Walker, Randy" <Randy.Walker at northropgrumman.com> Subject: RE: Sanitizing Question I have used my dishwasher many times to sanitize clean bottles. I've never had a problem with infections. The heated drying cycle is the key. I pour about 1/4 cup of bleach in before starting the dishwasher, but no detergent. Randy Walker Northrop Grumman Navigation Systems Division Salt Lake City, UT 801-539-1200, X-7484 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 06:29:10 -0800 (PST) From: Calvin Perilloux <calvinperilloux at yahoo.com> Subject: Schlenkerla Just being pedantic here, but the correct spelling for the famed Rauchbier is: Schlenkerla. Don't be fooled by the alt-deutsches lettering. That's a k, not an f. Sadly, one or two *German* sites even spelled it wrongly! Arrghhh!!! Try: http://www.schlenkerla.de/ for the real source. Let's stop this "Schlenferla" virus from spreading! Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:37:49 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net> Subject: Re: barleywine pitching Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> gives his advice on barleywine yeast and suggests brewing a regular gravity beer and then >place in a chest freezer when the beer is completely >done fermenting. That way I get ALL the yeast from the first batch. I agree that brewing a five gallon starter is the way to go, but I don't like to pitch on top of all the trub, dead yeast, etc. of this method. I love to ferment with true top fermenting ales so that I can harvest top yeast. If you skim the braunheffe (to mix a German term with an English style) on the first day or two, it is incredibly clean and healthy, and apparently consists of mostly live yeast. It's a thick pancake or mat of creamy white yeast. The best time to skim is when the beer still has a few points of fermentables left. This way the yeast is at its prime and hasn't started to "shut down" at the end of the fermentation. Then I store this under an inch of beer in the fridge until I brew again. Of course, while this works especially well for barleywines, I use it for all of my ales. I don't brew often enough to keep a yeast going very long, but there are many breweries that keep their yeast this way for years. I suspect that there may be some "killer" factor at work here that keeps contaminants at bay. To do this, you have to ferment in an accessible fermenter, though it doesn't have to be actually open. I ferment in my ten gallon stock pot with a spigot that I use to heat my mash and sparge water. I cover it with plastic wrap so I can watch but keep out airborne contaminants. About three days after brewing, I harvest the yeast with a perforated flat ladle. I don't know what it's really called, but it consists of a 4.5" barely concave disk with a handle. You can get it in the kitchenware section of stores. From the description, it appears that Wyeast 1214 Belgian Ale yeast that Adam is considering is a true top cropper. The other two he says he may consider, 1084 and 1056 both are from my experience. Of course, they will give much different results. Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:44:11 -0500 From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> Subject: water profiles There's been some traffic here this week about the "proper" water to use for a particular beer. The whole concept is pretty interesting to me. As has been my wont this week, I'll provide some conjecture and anecdotal evidence based on my experience. Very little science was harmed in the composition of this message. For a period in my brewing, I became slightly obsessed with the proper water profile for each beer. I had a good pH meter, lots of mineral salts, and used the "ppm calculator" on BreWater or ProMash to get it spot on (NAYYY). I found ways to put CaCO3 (calcium carbonate) in water via bubbling CO2, and all sorts of other things to ensure that my beers were authentic. Then I had a beer from an unnamed brewpub who claimed the water was adjusted to be exactly the same as Burton-on-Trent (a highly suspect and virtually unbelievable claim based on the taste), the ancestral home of IPA. This beer tasted closer to ocean water than beer, and smelled more like Old Faithful (sulfur) than an IPA. It's one of the few beers I've ever spit out that wasn't infected. You can take the concept a little too far. In addition, I did an experiment (published in Zymurgy some time back) where I brewed four IPAs with four different water profiles: Burton-on-Trent (sulfate), Dortmund (carbonate), Dublin (also carbonate), and Chapel Hill (near dead-ringer for Plzen water...very soft). The beers were blinded and taste tested. The beer most preferred was the BoT IPA, but the second most preferred beer was the unadulterated one. The scores were VERY close, and an equal number preferred the Chapel Hill IPA and the BoT IPA. The BoT version had higher overall scores and had a very mild sulfate aroma that mingled well with the hops. It most certainly did *not* smell like Old Faithful. :-) The more I read on water profiles the more I realized that brewers were creating beers to get "around" their particular profiles, not to accent them. Did Dublin become the home to stout because they made great stouts or because stouts used enough roasted malts to drop the pH of the mash to the point where it was possible to get complete conversion and clear beer, with other beers brewed in Dublin being inferior for just the opposite reasons. And remember that most brewers with carbonate water try to either treat or boil the water to force the carbonate OUT of the water. Nowadays the only mineral addition I make is a teaspoon of calcium chloride to keep the enzymes healthy, happy, and wise. The exception to this rule is a tablespoon of gypsum (CaSO4) per five gallons of IPA, but only if the IPA is made with Kent Goldings hops. There is something pretty magical about a small amount of sulfate in beer brewed with Kent Goldings. Kinda like chocolate and stout and cherries. The ingredients just work. I think sulfate water and Cascade hops make a less pleasant combination, but that's solely my taste buds. There are other styles where certain minerals are part of the profile, but the choice is yours whether to brew exactly to style or brew close to style. For example, I don't think the sulfate in a Dortmund adds much at all--again...that's just me. That being said, brewing with softened or distilled/deionized water is not advisable. Softened water often has excessive sodium levels which can (though not always) make the beer taste unpleasant. Dist/DI water has no minerals to speak of, which is also a problem. The enzymes active in all-grain brewing require some minerals (esp. calcium). If you have uber-hard water, a good solution is to blend your water 1:10 with a soft (but not softened) water source. If you're an extract brewer, use whatever water comes out of your tap provided it doesn't reek of chlorine. It's all good. Thought this might help people. For the most part, I think there are a lot of other things you can do in homebrewing to improve your beer before jumping into the water chemistry. A good rule of thumb is to brew with the softest water you can use. Sometimes the best effect water can have is no effect at all. Cheers! Marc P.S. Apologies for being long-winded. My morning coffee kicked in. - -- Marc Sedam Chapel Hill, NC Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:57:52 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net> Subject: Re: Rack and add water? Mark Baich, aka "Mark BitzMart" <mark at bitzmart.com> of Buffalo Grove, IL writes about his latest brew: >target OG was 1.042-1.046 and mine was 1.056. >Looking back over my notes and calculating how much water I used, I >am guessing that rather than having a full 5g of water in my plastic >fermentor I have approx 4.0g to 4.5g, and that may at least >partially explain the difference. A surprisingly common mistake among beginning brewers is to take a hydrometer sample from wort that is not well mixed. If you didn't add any water after boiling (aside from the squirting chiller), then this is probably not your problem. It is always nice to mark off your fermenter with one gallon lines so you know how much wort you have. >Fermentation is hard at work (Wyeast 1272), but only after I helped >warm the bucket with a heating pad and wrapped a blanket around it. >I don't want to disturb it at this point. I hope you aren't heating it very much. Mid to upper 60's F (19-20C) is where I like to ferment most ales. Much over 70-72F and you are likely to start getting esters and fusel oils (higher alcohols). There really isn't any danger in disturbing your beer. It's hardy, and fermentations are fun to watch. >My question is: in a few days should I rack the wort into my glass >carboy for a secondary fermentation, and can I add boiled, cooled >water at that point to top off to 5g? I don't want to end up with >overly sweet beer. The target FG is 1.010-1.014. In general I think it's best to add water at the beginning of fermentation or at least before it's done fermenting. Higher gravity ferments produce more esters (especially at higher temperatures). Besides, there is always the danger of introducing oxygen to the finished beer when you top off, but the yeast in fermenting beer will pretty much sop it up. Unless you are adding it early in the fermentation, do be sure that you've boiled the water, not just for sanitation, but more importantly, to drive off dissolved oxygen. Then try not to splash or otherwise aerate the water or beer. Hope this helps. Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 10:10:11 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net> Subject: Re: hops...different with corn? From: Darrell.Leavitt at esc.edu, who is constantly asking probing questions (some people just brew, but he wants to know why), writes: >I have been experimenting with brewers corn/ flaked corn in several >different brews, and wonder: I usually try to balance the malt with the >hops, ie if there is more malt, I'll generally up the hop count as >well...but if one uses corn,does the "effect" of the hops remain about the >same?..., or another way of asking is whether a larger amount of corn may >enhance or show the hops more than an equal amount of grain?,...or does >this make any sense at all? I think that since corn (and other adjuncts) are pretty neutral in flavor, that the hops show up more. I like this in a pilsner, but certainly one with 25% fermentables from corn (like my CAPs) will be less malty than one with 100% malt, and will need less hops to have the same balance. One of the things I like about CAP is the clean, hoppiness I get combined with the drinkability of a less satiating beer (German-American brewers of a century ago called a beer that was satiating "vollmundkeit," roughly translatable as full-mouth-ness). Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 08:27:27 -0700 From: "Mike Racette" <mike.racette at hydro-gardens.com> Subject: Subject: Gott Cooler Mashing - Capacity/Efficiency/Strike Temps Mike Rogers states: "One additional note. I use a Phils false bottom with a mash pad. I literally do not have to take more than a half a cup of wort from the mash to ensure a clear run off." Mike, what is a mash pad and why does it make the run-off clear faster? Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 10:16:32 -0500 From: william.m.menzl at dowcorning.com Subject: Kegging/Bottling Basics Well, I have started down the road to kegging and hope some may help me with my questions. I have one beer kegged and soon expect to keg a couple of batches that are in process. Any and all suggestions/information is greatly appreciated! * Do you have to refrigerate kegged beer after carbonating (either force or primed) or can you store it at room temp until you have time/room to cool it down? * Will the beer go bad if you cool it and dispense for a period of time, then pull it out and leave it a room temp for a while. * How long can kegged beer be kept? Does it matter if it is warm or cold? * Are there any good websites that describe any of the above? (I have found a few and used them for balancing my system but they haven't touched a lot on storage/times etc.) * I am thinking of lagering in a corney keg to free up some room in the keg fridge. Any good tips? * One last curiosity question: Kegman (http://www.kegman.net) recommends 12 psi as minimum and 19 psi as a maximum pressure and temperature from 32-42 degrees F for kegs. I have seen other sites list similar recommendations. The "Guideline for degrees of carbonation at various beer temperatures" from Brewing Techniques show a range of 2.39 to 3.27 volumes of CO2 for the pressures and temperatures recommended by Kegman. How do you dispense kegged beer at other volumes of CO2 (as appropriate for many other styles) and stay within the temperatures and pressures recommended? I am not there yet but it appears that I must be missing some basic knowledge when I study it. I read with interest the posts around air in the racking cane when bottling. I use a bottling bucket with a spigot. I have about a 6" tube that I have attached to the spigot for filling from the bottom of the bottle up. My spigot is designed that once the valve is turned to the off position, air is vented in at the top of the spigot and whatever fluid is in the line is vented and flows into the bottle. Therefore, there 6 " line is empty of fluid and full of air for each bottle. I haven't noticed any ill effects but my pallet is not educated real well for oxidation yet and my beer doesn't sit around for long before it is gone. Anyone have a similar setup? Am I opening myself up for problems? Thanks again! William Menzl Midland, Michigan [99.8, 344.8] Apparent Rennerian ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 07:41:32 -0800 From: Demonick <demonick at zgi.com> Subject: Re: Ideal Conditions for a Yeast Starter Kevin White <kwhite at bcpl.net> > >Instead of casting a starter into a larger wort volume for more >growth, is there anything wrong with flocculating the yeast by >refrigeration, decanting, warming, and then mixing with another >volume of fresh oxygenated wort in the same container? I don't know about "ideal", and would hesitate to use "ideal" yeast growing conditions for a beer starter. My suggestion is to use an OG close to the one you are going to brew, forget the hops, do the starter in one big cycle (no step up), and be absolutely compulsive about sanitation. As many here know, I am a yeast abuser. I believe that yeast are hardy buggers, and let my starters floc (refrigerated), cake, then decant, and pitch only the cake. I also aerate my starters. For a more complete write up see http://www.primetab.com/general.html Domenick Venezia Venezia & Company, LLC Maker of PrimeTab (206) 782-1152 phone (206) 782-6766 fax Seattle, WA demonick at zgi dot com http://www.primetab.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 11:11:26 -0500 From: Bill Wible <bill at brewbyyou.net> Subject: Re: Horehound Beer Noel, There's a book called "Sacred Herbal and Healing Beers" by Steven Buhner. Don't be put off by the title, it's a great book with lots of info on all kinds of plants. It describes the plant, which parts of it to use, what medicinal effects if any it has on the body, and in just about every case it gives recipes. I'm 99% sure I saw Horehound in there. Bill Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 11:08:58 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <JeffRenner at comcast.net> Subject: Re: Altbier water profile Petr Otahal <potahal at utas.edu.au> writes from way down under in Hobart, Tasmania, Australia >I am planning to do a Duesseldorfer style Altbier on the weekend. I have >read through the archives and my recipe is inspired by Al Korzonas' recipe >posted in HBD #2827 (except I will need to substitute some of the Munich >malt for Vienna as I dont have enough). > >The one thing I cant seem to find in the archives is the appropriate water >profile for a Duesseldorfer Altbier. I have very soft, neutral water, low >in total dissolved solids, and typically use just a little Calcium Chloride >to boost the Ca level when brewing Pilsners or light lagers. > >Can I assume that Altbier would require a similar water profile to a pilsner? No, due to the acidity of the dark malts, you can use some alkalinity here. As a matter of fact, it is due to the alkalinity of Dusseldorf water that dark beer is indigenous to Dusseldorf, as with other famous dark beer areas such as London (porter), Dublin (stout) and Munich (Munchener dunkel). However, Dusseldorf water is only somewhat alkaline (60 ppm CaCO3, see below) compared to these other cities. This was badly screwed up by Horst Dornbusch in his Classic Beer Series book "Altbeer" a few years ago and for which I took him to task here in HBD (see archives). He confessed to being weak on water chemistry, but I can't understand how this slipped by the editors. (Now that Ray Daniels is editor for the AoB's Brewers Publications, this shouldn't happen again). Now, whether or not you actually need to add some alkalinity is another question. Your mash pH should tell you. You wouldn't need to add much. >Do I want any sulphates in there to give the Altbier a longer finish to the >bitterness? Dusseldorf water has (according to AJ) ~80 ppm sulfate, so a little probably wouldn't be out of place. However, the few Alts I've had were very smoothly bitter, so keep it low. I suspect you could leave it out entirely. The HBD resident water chemist, AJ DeLange (whom I've cc'd), wrote a series on fabricating famous brewing waters some years ago. You can find his excellent posts at http://hubris.engin.umich.edu:80/Beer/Threads/Threads/thread.1037115247.html Here is his target for Dusseldorf water, which he describes how to hit with acid, salt and CO2 additions. Dusseldorf ION Ca 40 Mg 0 Na 25 K 0 CO3 60 SO4 80 Cl 45.000 AJ pointed out that this was in part an intellectual exercise that is not necessary to actually brew beers to style. For one thing, brewers often modify their water (Dortmunder is an example, as is Munich for Helles). My own guess is that if you used CaCl2, CaSO4 (gypsum) and NaHCO3 (sodium bicarbonate) in your water to get the major ions in the ballpark, you'd do fine. A little extra Ca++ won't hurt, but I'd try not to exceed the others. Jeff - --------- PS - For those of you who don't know, there was an interesting bit in the news this morning that made me think of Petr (see http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/South/11/11/cuba.defection/index.html ). It seems that a professional pilot in Cuba "appropriated" a cropduster/commuter biplane and flew it with seven others including one child to Key West, where they are expected to be given asylum. Now I don't think it is letting any secrets out to tell you all that twenty-some years ago, when Petr was a little boy, his father, a crop duster pilot in Czechoslovakia, similarly appropriated a smaller crop duster (no cabin, only a cockpit) and stuffed his wife and child (Petr) and maybe a suitcase into the cockpit and daringly flew over the border at treetops to freedom in Austria (or was it Germany?). I remember the news stories at the time. I wonder if any future homebrewers were in the flight to Key West? -J - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 10:32:55 -0500 From: "Smith, Brian (Inland-Gaylord)" <BSmith51 at ICCNET.COM> Subject: RE: experiments with corn.... Listers, Jeff R., Well, as you may recall I purchased some fresh milled corn meal about a month ago with the thoughts of using it as an adjunct. I finally got around to doing it this weekend. Of course my instructions were at work and not at home where they could help me. But when the fever strikes there is no stopping it. My plan was to use the corn meal in my annual Christmas beer ("Festive Spawn" long story about the name). Not being an all grainer, this was to be a partial mash with extract. I used 1.5 lbs. of 60 lov. crystal, .75 lbs. of munich and .5 lbs. of the corn meal. Now, from memory of Jeff's instructions, I took about 30% of the malt and mixed it with the corn meal and cooked it like a polenta. I mixed it with enough water to make a thin mixture and cooked it until it was fairly thick. ( like a medium thick oatmeal). In another pot I mixed my grains with water and got the temp about 140 F. To this I added the corn mess, and put the whole thing it an oven set at about 160. This I left for several hours. Using the B3 mini-mass set up I Then sparged the mixture until the sparge water ran pretty much clear. I ended up with about 2.75 gals of wort. I put this in my boiling pot and brought the volume up to 6.5 gals. I brought this to a boil and added 5 lbs. of light malt extract. I used 3 ounces of Halluter and .75 ounces of cascade pellets for bittering and 2 handfuls of homegrown cascade as aroma. Since this is a Christmas Ale I also added some fresh grated ginger, zest from 2 oranges and one Louisiana Satsuma, some cinnamon and some cardamom. I'm using a Wyeast American Ale yeast XL pack. Unfortunately the made on date was Nov. 2001 so I hope it's still good. I have kept it refrigerated since I bought it and the pack was showing signs of swelling when I pitched it. Now all I have to do is wait. I will keep you posted. p.s., I know my technique (or lack of one) has all you all-grainers' hair standing on end. Brian Smith Big Ring Brewery Bogalusa, LA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:13:10 -0800 From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro at hotmail.com> Subject: Re: refrigerator tubing as wort chiller? Drew Shelton <drew at homebrew.com> asks about refrigerator tubing... Refrigeration tubing is the same as regular soft copper tubing of the same dimensions, but it is cleaned and dehydrated on the inside. It's sold with caps to keep it that way. This is the case whether it's ACR in straight lengths or soft copper in coils. So, it's fine for use in home brewing. Non-refrigeration tubing might not be clean, and have some oils on it. But if you're buying the coiled type, I'd bet that most places sell the clean/dry stuff anyway, no matter which you ask for. I have bought non-ACR copper pipe, and found it to be dirty and oily--so I always specify ACR (which I _think_ means Air Conditioning and Refrigeration). The only odd thing about it is that at a commmercial supply house, if you ask for, say, 1 inch copper pipe, you're a plumber--and you get 1 1/8 inch OD copper pipe/tube. If you ask for 1 1/8 inch copper tubing, you get the same pipe/tube, but now you're a refrigeration tech. I was told some time back that the main difference between the copper pipe and copper tubing this particular supply house sold was in how you asked for it, which depended on which industry you were in! It was all the same Type M or L copper. Regards, Mike Sharp Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:34:56 -0800 (PST) From: LJ Vitt <lvitt4 at yahoo.com> Subject: re: what happened? Axel maker asked about his/her(?) attenuation: >Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 18:43:25 -0500 >From: "Axle Maker" <axlemaker at mindspring.com> >Subject: What Happened ? >1st batch was an IPA, I used Northwestern Extract and specialty grains, it >was fermented with Calif. Ale yeast (WLP001). >Then it spent another 2 week's dry hopped in the secondary. >The O.G. was 10.58, and the F.G. was 10.12, the beer came out fine. >The second batch was a Smoked Porter, once again it was made with >Northwestern Extract and specialty grains. >This was pitched on top of the cake from the IPA (the primary cake), it took >off in 2 hours. >5 day's later it went from a 10.70 to a 10.20, I bottled at 4 week's, it was >still no lower than 10.20, a little under >attenuated but didn't taste that bad. >Well I tried one this weekend only to find it to be completely flat. >WHAT HAPPENED ? Is it possible that the alcohol level has reached the tolerance level for the yeast? I looked at the wyeast web site, and can find attenuation figures, but not alcohol tolerance. The first beer 1.058 --> 1.012 79% attenuation Second beer 1.070 --> 1.020 71% The white labs site http://www.whitelabs.com/ratings.asp?id=WLP001 says 73-80%. If it had quit fermenting, but fermented the priming surgar, I would pick on the unfermentables in the second beer. I had a scottish strong that did not carbonate. I reopened all of the bottles and added a few grains of dry yeast to each bottle and recapped. It did carbonate. My theory was the alcohol content of the beer caused the problem. ===== Leo Vitt Rochester MN Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:17:09 -0500 From: darrell.leavitt at plattsburgh.edu Subject: sodium hypochlorite? I am attempting to determine the feasibility of using local town water for brewing,...and I think that I can either filter or pre-boil to remove chlorine. Is this the same for sodium hypochloride(/ite?). I am yet to receive the water analysis from our town, but one of the engineers told me that this was "the same as chlorine" and that this was what they added. I note that John Palmer (in How to Brew) states that chloramine is not removed by boiling, and I wonder what may be the case for sodium hypochloride? ...Darrell trying to learn a little more about a dimension of brewing that I have somewhat avoided...hardness, bicarbonates, and all that jazz... Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:38:12 -0500 From: Himsbrew at aol.com Subject: starter question what is the right amount of dry extract/water to use for a normal starter? thought I remember hearing 1 cup extract to 1 quart? does that sound right? jim cuny green bay wi Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:41:39 -0500 From: darrell.leavitt at plattsburgh.edu Subject: "Why Life's a Bleach" (more on Sodium Hypochlorite) If anyone is interested: in searching around for sodium hypochlorite I found the following brief article ( at http://www.esemag.com/0596/bleach.html ) entitled "Why Life's a Bleach: The Sodium Hypochlorite Story" by a couple of scientists at Colgate-Palmolive... Still don't know, but think that I must be able to boil it away...? ..Darrell Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 16:49:32 -0500 (EST) From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org> Subject: From whence doth "tripel" derive? Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... I was recently accosted by a garbage picker regarding the source of the word "tripel" when describing the Belgian style of the same name. Now, I admit not to being a genius, nor an all-knowing sage on things beerie, but I have always believed the name to refer to the beer's strength, as a progression from dubbel. The item this person plucked from the garbage stated that the term derives from "... the three grains - barley, wheat, oats - used to brew it." I have never noticed "... the three grains - barley, wheat, oats ..." in any recipe for Tripel I've ever reviewed. Usually, there is a base malt, a symphony of specialty malts - typically something in the crystal and/or cara-whatever family - and some kind of (but we hope it's candi) sugar. However, I ain't the sharpest stick in the bundle. Nope not neither. So which is it? Is tripel in reference to the strength of the beer, or to it's grain bill? - -- - God bless America! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at hbd.org Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor@hbd.org HBD Web Site http://hbd.org The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock [18, 92.1] Rennerian "I don't want a pickle. I just wanna ride on my motorsickle" - Arlo Guthrie Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 16:37:16 -0600 From: "Fred Scheer" <FHopheads at msn.com> Subject: HBD # 4091 Bottle conditioning When bottle conditioning my 3L bottles, I use ~ 1/2 cup of corn sugar for bottle conditioning. My HBD #4091 only went to the posting :Subject: Gott Cooler Mashing - Capacity/Efficiency/Strike Temps" anything wrong with my computer???? Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 22:04:22 -0500 From: J & B Gallihue <JGallihue at comcast.net> Subject: Horehound in Beer Noel asks: "Does anybody have a recipe for horehound beer (alcoholic) or any taste memories they can give me??" The book Homebrewers Garden by Joe and Dennis Fisher recommends it as a bittering hop and has many herb beer recipes. In The Historical Companion to House-Brewing, La Pensee notes, "The common German name "Berghopfen" (mountain hops) gives it all away." He goes on to say he thinks its too medicinal a flavor for him to use. Here is my two cents: Horehound is very bitter. In fact, Horehound is very, very very bitter. Experiment with it by preparing teas with it of various strengths and various boil times. Add the teas to a samples of cheap beer and see what proportions match. That way you don't waste a day and a batch of homebrew. You may wish to then brew a home brew batch that has the specialty grains you think you may wish to use do the tea experiment with that. I theorize you need malt and residual sweetness to balance the bitterness. I also doubt you will want the horehound in the boil for very long. Good luck and have fun. Joel Gallihue. Columbia, MD Return to table of contents
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