HOMEBREW Digest #4157 Wed 29 January 2003

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  Re:  Precision Brewing Systems (Bill Tobler)
  Swirling ("Mark Tumarkin")
  Brew time/grist bill adjustments/glucoamylase ("Steve Alexander")
  Kind of Long: Oxidation and Bottle Conditioned Beer ("John Misrahi")
  No Sparge Lauter Rate (william.m.menzl)
  Klingons dead ahead (Mark Kempisty)
  Tom Karnowski and high crystal/high FG beer ("Czerpak, Pete")
  Re: Brew time/grist bill adjustments/glucoamylase (Marc Sedam)
  Surface Burner Controls ("Pete Calinski")
  O-rings ("Dennis Collins")
  Re: Priming choices (Denny Conn)
  White Labs 2003 Platinum Strains (Bill Wible)
  Electric brewers and herms (K.M.)" <kmuell18 at visteon.com>
  DCL yeast again ("Joseph Gerteis")
  Beer Dispensing (Bob Pelletier)
  HERMS - anyone using a manifold?  Canada, Cream Ale and IPA. (RiedelD)
  Home Depot Utility Pump for RIMS...is it feasible? ("Antonio A. Rucci")
  sink source and sanke querrie (aa8jzdial)
  Bay area clubs (Jeff Renner)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 01:41:17 -0600 From: Bill Tobler <wctobler at sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: Precision Brewing Systems Yep, PBS is no more. I think it was early last year they went off line. Too bad, I liked their stuff. I bought some pots and a Maxi Chiller from them. I think the owner was just too busy with a real job and family. Bill Tobler Lake Jackson, TX (1129.7, 219.9) Apparent Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 06:45:18 -0500 From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com> Subject: Swirling Several posts have suggested swirling the carboy as another way to empty it quickly & smoothly without chugging & glugging (inserting a tube or racking cane being the way originally suggested). If you use Iodophor or StarSan (which creates even more bubbles than Iodophor), swirling your carboy or bottles also has the added benefit that less of the bubbles will be left behind. Mark Tumarkin Hogtown Brewers Gainesville, FL Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 07:04:57 -0500 From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Brew time/grist bill adjustments/glucoamylase Marc Sedam says .... >I've never really understood why it takes people so long to brew. If >it's taking you 6-7 hours during the brewday OK you're speedy Marc, but let's include *all* the times involved. 30 min - formulate a recipe & record & calculate grists (anywhere fm 10min to 2hrs really) 25 min - measure & crush grains malts, 10 min - rinse & start sanitizing first carboy 25 min - pull out the pots & pump & tubes, burners. rinse pots, set HLT on burner and fill water (after attaching a filter) . 30 min - Adjust water pH & heat HLT to strike. [Sanitize 2nd carboy]. 45 min - mash [dig thru freezer & measure hops, make any mash steps] 15 min - recirc 10 min - runoff 1st wort to boiler. 15 min - add 1st batch sparge & recirc 10 min - run off 1st batch sparge while heating 10 min - take SG reading, wait for boil, 90 min - boil [background - sanitize CFC, pump, tubing, fermentation locks, aeration stone, dump grist, cleanup mash equip.] 10 min - recirc wort thru CFC till cooler. 10 min - divert *cold* wort to carboys. 20 min - take OG, & pH readings, pitch, aerate. 30 min - Clean up pH probe, hydrometers, aeration stone, boiler, floors, tubing, pump, tubing, tools ... OK, I've got 385 minutes (6.4 hours) invested and I still haven't accounted for prepping the yeast or having a beer. For decoctions the schedule time definitely goes up. I could nip a few minutes off, and overlap a bit more but I can't see cutting the time to anything like 4 hours. I could cut 30-45 minutes off the schedule above, but I really don't want to make the schedule so tight that you start forgetting things (brewing salts, finings, measurements,...) or if you have a little accident (spill, boilover, temp overshoot etc) that you get so busy that you fail to have hops measured or hardware sanitized in time. I like brewing - what's the rush ? Sure, if I could knock 2hrs off and not be rushed or make compromises I would, but I don't see that happening. ========== Someone asked a very interesting question here a few weeks ago and I don't think they ever got a comparably good answer. How do you adjust the grist bill when as your efficiency varies ? The several answers I saw suggested changing all the grists amounts by the same percentage. This will give you the correct OG, but I don't think that this method will give you the same flavor profile. Clearly 1st wort carries off much more of the flavor and color from specialty malts, and also more of the better part of the flavor from base malt than sparge runnings. I suspect that the same applies when the newbie all-grainer finds himself getting only 60% extraction efficiency - that he is still getting most of the color & flavor from the specialty malts and even the base malt - but not as much of the fermentables. Anyway I suspect that if you are seriously shooting for the same flavor profile in a low efficiency brew session, that you make up the missing OG points by adding primarily base malt and only a little more of the crystal, caramel, roast and munich malts. ======= Anyone have a source for glucoamylase - it's an enzyme used for making very low residual carbohydrate beers. Crosby & Baker carry it for commercial brewers, but I haven't found an HB source yet. -S Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 09:10:49 -0500 From: "John Misrahi" <lmoukhin at sprint.ca> Subject: Kind of Long: Oxidation and Bottle Conditioned Beer Hi all, I have been trying to improve the technical side of my brewing from batch to batch, and one of the things that keeps coming to haunt me is oxidation. No matter what I do, almost all my beers seem to end up developing an oxidized quality (kind of a stale wet cardboard taste). Now i was reading Dave Miller's Homebrewing Guide, and he states, "As long as there are live yeast cells in the beer, they will consume any free oxygen that becomes available whether it comes from air dissolved during bottling or transfer, or from tannins or melanoidins that were oxidized during the hot side of the brewing process. As a result, live yeast makes a beer much less prone to the stale, cardboard, or sherry-like flavours so common in old filtered beer". This leads me to think that the yeast should prevent that problem (all my beers are bottle conditioned (either in bottles or mini kegs) with yeast inside. I don't filter. Is Miller's theory correct, in which case my problem is due to something else, or is he just out of date? I don't want to start another HSA debate. I am quite careful on the hot side anyways, and I rack , etc.. as slowly and carefully as I possibly can. What else could be the problem? I understand warmer temperatures accelerate the staling process. Is room temp (ie ~20-21C) warm enough to damage beer over the short term (ie under a month or 2) ? I store most of my beers at that temperature. Anything else I can do to reduce this problem? I have heard (and had it confirmed when I read the ingredients on a bottle of Samichlaus) that some brewers add vitamin C to their beers to prevent oxidation on beers that will be aged over the long term. By the way, I don't make many big beers. 80% of my batches have had original gravities in the range 1.035-1.045 or so. I have a 1.060 porter in primary right now, so will see what turns out. Sorry for the long post, and I will be very grateful for any advice you guys can give me. John Misrahi Montreal, Canada [892, 63] Apparent Rennerian (km) Seen on a tee shirt - "The internet is full. Go away!" "Ah, Billy Beer... we elected the wrong Carter." -Homer Simpson Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 09:39:34 -0500 From: william.m.menzl at dowcorning.com Subject: No Sparge Lauter Rate Greetings All! I have done one no-sparge batch of a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale clone using the calculations as found in http://www.howtobrew.com and it worked out great. I got the calculated volume and gravity that I was expecting. I am looking at shortening my brew day up some and I am wondering what others are using for their Lauter rate. I normally use a 0.5 to 1 cup/minute Lauter rate when doing continuous sparge. Can the rate be increased when using no-sparge vs. continuous sparging? I have read with interest where some brewers use pumps to recirculate the wort through the Mash/Lauter Tun and the rates are a half gallon per minute or more. Does this mean that I can increase my Lauter rate to a half gallon/minute when using no-sparge? Any insights are appreciated! William Menzl Midland, Michigan [99.8, 344.8] Apparent Rennerian I apologize if a disclaimer shows below. The corp server may add it. ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs SkyScan service. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit http://www.messagelabs.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 09:54:29 -0500 From: Mark Kempisty <kempisty at pav.research.panasonic.com> Subject: Klingons dead ahead Actually it was Star Trek: Deep Space Nine but that was a great episode. I was lucky enough to catch the original Trouble with Tribbles and the new one (don't remember the title) when they were aired back to back. I recorded them of course and the whole family likes to watch them together. Now if they only gave a recipe for Romulan Ale! - -- Take care, Mark Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 09:58:15 -0500 From: "Czerpak, Pete" <Pete.Czerpak at siigroup.com> Subject: Tom Karnowski and high crystal/high FG beer Tom asks about his friends high FG beer that used alot of crystal malt due to running out of 2row. Rogue is known to use large amounts of specialty grains in their beers. Specifically the Rogue Red is thought to have in the neighborhood of 30 to 40% and seems to end up okay. I did a clone of this with high amount of crystal of all colors and the beer went from roughly 1.055 to ~1.018 to 1.020. It might have been mashed a bit hot and I don't think I used pure O2 at yeast charging but I did use a lot of yeast from a prior ferment. Your friends beer sounds like its suffers from a hot mash/broken thermometer (done this myself) or poor yeast health. Yes, beano could possibly work although I've never done it. The only beer I ever had finish that high (1.035) was a hot mashed wee heavy that I didn't aerate well and pitched inadequately and fermnted at cool temperatures. So lots of mistakes on my part. It mellowed well after a year though. Pete Czerpak albany, NY Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 10:04:21 -0500 From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> Subject: Re: Brew time/grist bill adjustments/glucoamylase OK. Just for fairness, I'll run down the day off the top of my head. Day before 5 minutes-- Calculate recipe...I use ProMash and/or StrangeBrew 15 minutes-- Weigh and crush grains 5 minutes-- Fill tanks with water and adjust (for me this is one campden tablet [to remove chloramine] and a teaspoon of CaCl2) 5 minutes-- Set up mash tun and hot liquor tank Day o' brewing 0 min-- Heat mash and sparge water 15 min-- Add grist and hops to mash tun. (in this intervening period, make up any sanitizing solution and sanitize fermenter) 45 min-- Start recirculating mash and direct fire heating to mash out (takes a while) 75 min-- Start runoff. Sparge. Light burner under boiling kettle. 120 min-- All wort collected. Since I've been heating the wort as it left the mash tun, it's only five more minutes to a rolling boil. 135 min-- Add boiling hops. (in the intervening period add various hops, clean and scrub mash tun, dump grains in compost, put away unused burners, sanitize CFC) 195 min-- turn off heat, whirlpool 205min-- start chilling, pitch yeast in fermenter 220min-- finish chilling up to 250 min-- clean CFC, pump, boil kettle, and any remaining stuff So, that's just over four hours. In the original post I did mention this was possible assuming the water and grains were dealt with the night before. Like most people, I'm very time-constrained. Spending four or five hours doing anything is a luxury so I jam as much in to that time as possible. To each, his or her own. :-) Cheers! Marc Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 09:58:02 -0500 From: "Pete Calinski" <pjcalinski at adelphia.net> Subject: Surface Burner Controls Just a comment. Most surface burner controls have a terminal for a pilot light. It goes on when the connection is made and off when there is no connection. I use a 110V light from Radio Shack. I think it helps me maintain a better temperature setting. Pete Calinski East Amherst NY Near Buffalo NY *********************************************************** *My goal: * Go through life and never drink the same beer twice. * (As long as it doesn't mean I have to skip a beer.) *********************************************************** Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 10:12:26 -0500 From: "Dennis Collins" <dcollins at drain-all.com> Subject: O-rings There have been a few inquiries lately regarding O-rings sizes and such. Being in an industry that uses quite a few O-rings I thought I would pass along some info. Parker basically wrote the book on O-rings. They certainly aren't the only game in town but they have done so much work in this area and have been around so long that they have sort of a monopoly in this area (sort of like Microsoft). If you go to www.parkerorings.com, click on the Product Info link, then click the O-ring sizes link. Now click the link for the 2-xxx series of industrial sizes. This will give you the standard dimensions and size designations (dash numbers) for just about any O-ring you would ever encounter as a homebrewer. This size designation will be recognized by any manufacturer or distributor. The industrial supply houses (McMaster-Carr, et al) use the dash number on the size designations for ordering, however, they list the dimensions for each dash number in fractions which will not be as exact as the decimal dimensions given by Parker, but a 2-024 is the same sized O-ring no matter where it comes from. When measuring an O-ring, I suggest a set of dial calipers. First measure the thickness, then measure the inside diameter of the O-ring in an unstretched configuration. Measure out to at least 2 decimal places. The ID in successive size designations jumps by 0.030 - 0.060" increments, so a semi-careful measurement with dial calipers should be pretty conclusive on what size the O-ring is. For the real geeks out there, click the "inPHorm" link from the Product Info page. This will take you to a place where you can download the inPHorm program that will give you O-ring dimensions, seal gland dimensions, and select suitable materials based on the temperature and the fluid you are trying to seal (even combinations of fluids). Very cool. I checked and "beer" is listed in the database. When ordering O-rings from the industrial supply places, they omit the "2" given in the Parker size designation and just use the dash number. For most homebrew applications, standard Buna (Nitrile) or Ethylene Propylene (EPDM or EPR) are good materials. I wouldn't be concerned about FDA approval here, I think that mostly applies to the mold releases used in processing. A wash in good 'ole soap and water will remove anything that might be in question. Dennis Collins Knoxville, TN http://sdcollins.home.mindspring.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 09:16:01 -0800 From: Denny Conn <denny at projectoneaudio.com> Subject: Re: Priming choices Hi Jodie, I've experimented a bit with priming. I split a batch and used corn sugar, DME, honey, and force crab. My conclusion was that given equal lengths of time for the CO2 to develop and go into solution, no one could tell the difference. Force carbing was of course the fastest, and corn sugar was the most reliable and predictable of the others. The amounts used are so small, that no one involved in the tasting could tell the difference. There have been stories about how DME creates a "finer" carbonation, but my observation is that it's because DME takes longer to ferment out and carbonate the beer. If you leave beers that have been primed with all of these methods for say, 2 months. the carbonation is identical. Please note that these results are not scientific, and other people have reached different conclusions. I'd really encourage you to split a batch and try it for yourself! ------------------->Denny At 12:30 AM 1/28/03 -0500, you wrote: >Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 09:08:52 -0500 >From: "Jodie Davis" <JodieDavis at adelphia.net> >Subject: Priming Choices > >To date I've been following recipe instructions for priming using corn >sugar or DME as instructed. Does it matter which one uses? Do they lend >any flavor to the finished product? I expect not since it's such a small >amount. > >Jodie Davis >Canton, GA > >P.S. My first all grain batch, an English Bitter, is FABULOUS! I popped >one last night in honor of the Super Bowl. Yum! Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 12:39:21 -0500 From: Bill Wible <bill at brewbyyou.net> Subject: White Labs 2003 Platinum Strains White Labs 2003 Platinum Strain Profiles WLP510 - Bastogne Belgian Ale Yeast (available Jan/Feb) A high gravity, Trappist style ale yeast. Produces dry beer with a slight acidic finish. More 'clean' fermentation character than WLP500 or WLP530. Not as spicy as WLP530 or WLP550. Excellent Yeast for high gravity beers, Belgian ales, dubbels and Trippels. Attenuation: 74-80% Flocculation: Medium Optimum Fermentation Temp: 66-72 F WLP022 - Essex Ale Yeast (available March/April) Flavorful British style yeast. Drier finish than many British ale yeasts. Produces slightly fruity and bready character. Good top fermenting yeast strain, well suited for top cropping. This yeast is well suited for classic British milds, pale ales, bitters, and stouts. Does not flocculate as much as WLP002 or WLP005. Attenuation: 71-76% Flocculation: Medium to High Optimum Fermentation Temp: 66-70 F WLP833 - German Bock Lager Yeast (available all year) >From the Alps of southern Bavaria, this yeast produces a beer that is well balanced between malt and hop character. The excellent malt profile makes it well suited for Bocks, Dopplebocks, and Oktoberfest beer styles. Very versatile lager yeast, it is so well balanced that it has gained tremendous popularity for use in Classic American style Pilseners. Also good for Helles style light lager. Attenuation: 70-76% Flocculation: Medium Optimum Fermentation Temp: 48-55 F They also now have a new wine strain: Avize Wine Yeast NEW! (WLP718) Champagne isolate used for complexity in whites. Contributes elegance, especially in barrel fermented Chardonnays. Attenuation: 80% Flocculation: Low Optimum Ferm. Temp: 60-90 F Bill Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 13:06:32 -0500 From: "Mueller, Kevin (K.M.)" <kmuell18 at visteon.com> Subject: Electric brewers and herms All this discussion about electric brewing and HERMS lately has lit a fire under my a$$, and I think its time to finally start working on my new brewery. SWMBO is already cursing the HBD, and mumbling something about priorities and home repairs. Oh well! My plans are to convert my propane fueled RIMs into an electric RIMs or HERMS. I'm currently running a 4500W (at 240V) element in my rims chamber at 110V which is insufficient for step mashes, but is great for maintaining my temp. For steps I've been firing the bottom of my tun with a home made king cooker (jet type). HLT, mash tun, and boil kettle are all converted sankey kegs. I've got an extra 240 V circuit running to my drier that I'm not using, so I figured I'd tap into that to run elements in my HLT and kettle. >From reading the HERMS thread, it seems that most of you are setting your HLT temp to approx 10 deg above your mash temp, and controlling flow thru the coil/bypass to control your mash temp. My thought was to control the HLT temp to be the same as the mash, and run full flow thru it. Great for single temp mashes, but for steps I suppose you'd have some very long ramp times. Anyone with experience of doing it like this? Any tips or hints from electric brewers and HERMSer's would be greatly appreciated. Any local HERMS systems that I could check out? RIMS? Electric? I'm familiar with the Sabco brew magic, and the pico systems, but I'd like to see some other home made systems. Thanks, Kevin Canton, MI Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 10:29:53 -0800 (PST) From: "Joseph Gerteis" <joseph540 at elvis.com> Subject: DCL yeast again A thread a while back was discussing the varieties of DCL yeast -- and particularly the lager yeast -- that are not available to homebrewers in 11.5 gram packets. I emailed the DCL people about this. Unfortunately, I accidentally erased the reply in a fit of spam-cleaning. But I can paraphrase: 1. They only offer one lager and one ale yeast in the small packets and that's all they plan to do for the forseeable future. 2. This is because they have to make a ton of the packets at once, and they are concerned about freshness if they make too many varieties. 3. They may be willing to expand or reconsider the offerings if they see demand. I got the impression that there is very little likelihood of seeing more than one ale or lager offering at one time. I am perfectly happy with the S04 ale yeast. It seems that no one is particularly pleased with the lager yeast, and that those who have tried the other lager yeasts much prefer them. A letter campaign to get them to switch their lager yeast might just be effective. For those that have tried them all -- is there one that is a good "general" lager yeast? - ------------------------------------------------- Get your free at Elvis e-mail account at Elvis.com! http://www.elvis.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 13:57:30 -0500 From: Bob Pelletier <rp at ihrsa.org> Subject: Beer Dispensing Looking for sources of 3/16ID food grade tubing. At least I think that is the suggested ID to reduce foaming at the tap. Any one have a good source or other info? TIA, Bob Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:20:43 -0500 From: RiedelD at pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca Subject: HERMS - anyone using a manifold? Canada, Cream Ale and IPA. I too have been considering the HERMS idea, or perhaps just a recirculating system to save brew-day time by having clear wort ready for runoff at the end of the mash. My question is: How do these pump systems work for a manifold-style mash tun? I don't ever open the ball-valve fully on my mash tun... don't need to for recirc, don't want to for runoff. Does a pumped system require a false-bottom set-up? - --- Regarding the abundance of 'cream ale' in Canada (in the west, anyway)... it seems to be marketing fad. Apparently you can add the 'cream' term to any ale to make it sound wonderful and increase sales. We even have a Scottish Cream Ale around here. It's a good beer, but I don't see why it should be called a 'cream ale'. My suggestion is to be suspicious of anything labeled 'cream' up here. As for IPAs.... I think Keith's is pretty much false advertising. Big Rock's IPA is pretty ridiculously named also. Dave Riedel Victoria BC Canada Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 19:33:15 -0500 From: "Antonio A. Rucci" <ruccia at solidgospel.com> Subject: Home Depot Utility Pump for RIMS...is it feasible? Gentlemen, I'm looking for y'all's opinion regarding a utility pump that I am considering picking up to complete my RIMS project. It a 1/12 HP Cyclone Utility pump that they sell at Home Depot. The link is below and I'd appreciate any input. From what I can see, it looks like it would serve appropriately as long as it would keep the wort clean in the transfer. Just wondering if would even be worth considering. The one I'm looking at is the $79 one from Flotec Inc., SKU #932442. http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/diy_main/pg_diy.jsp?CNTTYPE=PROD_ META&CNTKEY=Products_1%2fPlumbing_1565%2fPumps_1396%2fSubmersible+Pumps_6823 %2fNon-Pedestal+Submersible+Pumps_1937&BV_SessionID= at at at at 2100017238.104379901 9 at at at at &BV_EngineID=ccdeadchgkhjmihcgelceffdfgidgjl.0&MID=34 Thanks in Advance, Tony Rucci Frederick, MD Current State: *Primary: Raspberry Fruit Ale* **Secondary: Pebbles Light Ale** ***Conditioning: Screaming Girl Cream Ale*** Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 02:40:20 +0000 From: aa8jzdial at attbi.com Subject: sink source and sanke querrie Greetings fellow obsessives: Antony from RSA (where i bet it is summer) talked in a recent post about decreasing brew time by using a large tub for cleaning equipment. I found a real cheap source. Locate a big plastic barrel that has been used for industrial floor cleaning liquid or whatever else they are used for. Lay it on the floor sideways and use your skill saw to slice off about 3/8 of it lengthwise. That leaves a big enough opening for a carboy on its side, a Sanke keg/kettle or our german shepherd. The grand kids have even taken baths in the garage during summer and got a kick out of it. A hand full of 2*4's and you are in fat city. For the drain use your junk pile / imagination. I have been using Sanke kegs lately for fermenters. Without a doubt this has been discussed. I was sick that day. I am looking for cleaining tips, draw backs, etc. I have tried a long broom stick (with out the broom) and some short ropes on the end. Spin this thing with a good sized drill and the ropes flail out and seem to swipe it clean. I guess. It is hard to see in there. I have basically reverted to rinsing after last ferment, brushing pretty good (with Crest) and then boiling a 1/2 gallon of water for about 20 minutes. These babies are heavy when full but much more forgiving when suddenly stopping on the concrete. Rick Dial AA8JZ N Muskegon, Mi. (where we hear Lake Michigan roar) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 21:50:54 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net> Subject: Bay area clubs Brewers My nephew, who enjoys good beer and especially my homebrew, is interested in starting brewing. He lives in Berkeley, California, and I'd like to put him in touch with a local club. The AHA club listing has been lost in a site upgrade, so I can't check that source. Can anybody tell me about Bay Area clubs? Private email is fine. Thanks Jeff (no sig yet - just upgraded to Mac OS X). Return to table of contents
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