---

	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


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Contents:
  HERMS ("K. Gold or G. McLane")
  Chest Freezer Versus Refrigerator for Beer Cooling (Hayes Antony)
  re: 'other' DCL yeasts ("Steve Alexander")
  RE:  RIMS water heater element grounding ("Lou King")
  Re: Competition Ethics (Mark Kempisty)
  RE: 84%! (extraction efficiency) (Fred L Johnson)
  pLambic Digest (Pat Babcock)
  beer travel question ("charlybill")
  re. Origins of yeast ("John Misrahi")
  Metals in lauter.. ("Eyre")
  Something to think about.. ("Eyre")
  Keg Tip for Dave Larsen and Stupid Brewer Trick #714 ("Jason Henning")
  Re: Competition ethics (Bill Wible)
  Speed of sound / Entering a kit, recipe, whatever (David Harsh)
  Reuse of Chimay bottles ("Romanowsky, Paul")
  RE: the Speed of sound in CO2 ("Mike Sharp")
  home brewery tip ("Bridges, Scott")
  Original yeast sources (beerbuddy)
  Chest Freezer Versus Refrigerator for Beer Cooling (Calvin Perilloux)
  RE: 84%! (extraction efficiency) (Teresa Knezek)
  herms questions (Steven S)
  Good pubs in Norcross, GA ("Tray Bourgoyne")


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Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 00:41:23 -0500
From: "K. Gold or G. McLane" <ktgold at umich.edu>
Subject: HERMS

HBD'ers
This is my first post, though I've followed the digest for many years.
What a resource!  

I'm upgrading my current system to a HERMS...or some other acronym.
Whatever you want to call it, the wort is circulated in a coil submerged in
the HLT to do temp ramps.  At the moment, I have a three vessel "system" of
2 converted 15 gallon kegs (of different types) as HLT and boiler, and a
10-gallon Polarware w/ SS screen for the Tun.  I also have a bizarre, but
wonderful doohicky I might use for my Grant, which I think used to be some
sort of giant coffee thermos...SS, holds five gallons, looks like an
old-fashioned dairy jug.  (Doubles as a great mash tun, when doing
partial/small batches.)  As you can tell, its quite a motley brew-house.  

Quick proposed system discription: 2-up/1-down system, pump sits below the
mash tun, which sits below the HLT and the boiler.  Single propane burner,
switch from HLT to Boiler during final mash-out.  Mash tun will have a
recirc line and a heat-exchanger line connected through a grant, a
batch-sparge line direct from the HLT, and a line through the pump to the
boiler.  A CAD drawing would say all this a helluva lot better!  I intend
to use this system for all manner of beer, but will do decoctions and step
mashes a lot.  Even infusion mashes can benefit from some precise
temperature control, and the recirc thing seems to be widely accepted as a
good thing for the final product.  (Preaching to the choir...yeah, right.)  

Seeing as how I'm not much of a gadgeteer, nor do I have a whole lot of
time (wife is a doctor-in-training, infant and pre-school daughters - which
explains why I haven't been to my local club meetings in a long, long
time), I need to verify a few things with folks who've been at this a while
before I melt my mastercard.  Having scoured the net and the HBD archives,
I've learned a lot of good stuff, but there's always room for
clarification.  So, here's a bunch of questions for Those Who Have Gone
Before:

As far as the temperature ramping/mash heating part, the basic system works
by having a PID turn on the pump, which pumps the runnings from the tun
through the HLT-submerged coil...right so far?  I don't need to mess with
solonoid valves and such, do I?  Pump on = ramp up, pump off = mash rest.
All I need are a couple (manual) diverter ball-valves and I'm in business,
right?

I understand using a lauter grant helps a lot with making the pump run
smooth.  Cavitation BAD.  Is this true, or can the grant be nixed?  (Most
systems I see are 3-vessel, not 3-and-a-side-car, so this is why I ask.)

I intend on using Norprene and copper pipes, brass valves, and polysulfone
disconnects.  Any comments there?  (I see a need for some flexible lines to
the pump - lots of folks have noted that the pump leads tend to break off,
and that metal-to-plastic connections tend to leak, thus the plastic hoses
and connections.)

Pump: March 809, very likely.  Some folks like the MDX(?)-series, and I see
Little Giant come up, but I'm really into using the pump for boiling temps,
which knocks out all I've seen but the 809.  Any others out there folks
like?  Issues with the 809?  Perhaps a bit too delicate when, say for
instance, smacked by spousal bumpers?  (ouch)

The pump leads are 1/2" NPT, most of my existing copper pipe is 3/8".  I
figured I'd make the inlets to the pump all 1/2", but then skinny to 3/8" a
bit downstream of the outlet.  Will this cause problems?

Do you generally recirc all through mash rests, or just until the runnings
clarify?

I intend on making a gizmo out of rigid insulation and aluminum flashing
that nests inside my Polarware pot, and will support the recirc/sparge arm
by floating directly on top of the mash (again, the need for the norprene
flexibility comes up).  This allows me to have 5 and 10 gallon batches,
since the arm is always where I need it.  The arm will be simple slotted
(or drilled) copper piping in a big circle.  (Note that only aluminum and
copper will touch the mash.)  Does this make sense?

OK, enough band-width hogged.  Thanks in advance for your help.

Greg McLane
"About 10 minutes east on Dexter Road" Apparent Rennarian









 



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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 07:49:46 +0200 
From: Hayes Antony <HayesA at aforbes.co.za>
Subject: Chest Freezer Versus Refrigerator for Beer Cooling

Darwin Airola asked, "Is there any advantage to using a freezer as opposed
to a refrigerator for beer cooling (or vice versa)"

Do you not get chest refrigerators in the US?

This is my preference, as I can store beer at 0C (32F), gradually
eliminating chill haze, and when I open the lid, the cold air does not pour
out as it does with a vertical fridge.

Ant Hayes
Johannesburg



Confidentiality Warning
=======================
The contents of this e-mail and any accompanying documentation
are confidential and any use thereof, in what ever form, by anyone
other than the addressee is strictly prohibited.



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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 03:01:33 -0500
From: "Steve Alexander" <steve-alexander at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: re: 'other' DCL yeasts

Drew Avis asks about new DCL yeasts ...

>Steve Alexander sez:
>"DCL has several new dry yeasts in the works btw."
>
>Cool!  Any hints on what they might be?

If you go to the DCL website and peruse follow the "brewing yeasts",
"industrial brewing"(or "craft brewing") , "products range" links portion
you'll find a number of products.
http://www.dclyeast.co.uk/DCL_Main/main_brewing/craftbrew_index.htm

 Lager yeasts S-189, S-04, W-34/70 have previously been discussed here.
Safe-ale S-04 is the DCL ale yeast available to HBers in small packets.  I
also see K97, T-58, S-33, T-58  in current production but not well described
on HBD.  Their upcoming entry is a weizen yeast, W-68, which may well be the
same as WY3068 (Wyeast has a tendency to include the Weihenstephan digits
too) in dry form.  Descriptions follow.

===========================
The 'other' DCL yeasts ....

- --
K-97:
A German ale yeast selected for its ability to form a large firm head when
fermenting. This top cropping ale yeast is suitable for top fermented beers
and can be used for Belgian type wheat beers.
Sedimentation: low.
Final gravity: low.
Recommended temperature range:  18C-24C.
Recommended pitching rate:  50 g/hl to 80 g/hl.

- --
T-58:
A speciality yeast selected for its estery, somewhat peppery and spicy
flavour development.
Sedimentation: medium.
Final gravity: high.
Recommended fermentation temperature: 18C-24C.
Recommended pitching rate:  50 g/hl to 80 g/hl.
Bottle-conditioning:
The T-58 strain forms a solid sediment in the bottle at the end of secondary
fermentation, however without producing yeast clumps. It is therefore widely
used for bottle conditioning as it is a guarantee for both nice yeast
sediment appearance and consistent carbonation. Recommended pitching rate:
2.5 g/hl to 5 g/hl.

- ---
S-33:
A very popular general purpose yeast, displaying both very robust
conservation and consistent performance. This yeast produces superb flavour
profiles and can be used for the production of a varied range of top
fermented specialist beers (Belgian type wheat beers, Trappist, etc.).
Sedimentation: medium.
Final gravity: high.
Recommended temperature range:  15C-24C.
Recommended pitching rate:  50 g/hl to 80 g/hl.
Also used for bottle-conditioning (recommended pitching rate: 2.5 g/hl to 5
g/hl).
- ----

Coming soon!
W-68:
Originating from Weihenstephan, this top fermenting strain produces the
typical clovy & banana flavours of the Bavarian Weissen beers.

Sedimentation: low.
Final gravity: low.
Recommended fermentation temperature: 18C-24C.
Recommended pitching rate:  50 g/hl to 80 g/hl.

====================

Don't expect to find DCL's full range of yeasts in your average HB shop any
time soon.  DCL treats HBers like they're college kids making cheap swill -
they don't understand the market.

I'd really like to try these dried yeasts, particularly the  K-97 and
T-58.

 -Steve





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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 06:37:22 -0500
From: "Lou King" <lking at pobox.com>
Subject: RE:  RIMS water heater element grounding

I have a 1.5" to 1" bushing on the top of my heater chamber.  The water
heater screws into the top, and Dion is correct that teflon tape isn't
needed there as the gasket does bottom out (I wasn't sure it would
initiallially due to the straight vs. tapered threading already
discussed here recently), but the 1.5" male threads of the bushing
screws into the female threads of the main copper chamber.

Note that my heater doesn't have a ground screw, nor is the chamber in
contact with house ground.

Most of the suggestions have been to tap a grounding screw into the
bushing or the heater itself, and to verify the continuity through to
the heater chamber.  The thought is that there will be continuity
regardless of the teflon tape in the bushing to chamber interface.

Thanks all,

Lou King
Ijamsville, MD

> -----Original Message-----
> From: hollen at woodsprite.com
> Subject: Re: RIMS water heater element grounding
> 
> 
> > I would just ground the heater chamber itself, but there is
> a need to
> > use teflon tape to keep the wort from leaking out the
> bushings, etc,
> > so it isn't all electrically connected to the male threads of the
> > water heater element.
> 
> If you need to use teflon tape, you are doing something
> wrong.  The heater element should come with a rubber gasket.  
> If you tighten the element into the heater chamber until the 
> gasket just contacts the chamber all the way around and then 
> turn the element 1/2 turn only more, then you will have no 
> leaks, and your element will be thoroughly grounded.
> 
> Or do you have some setup that would prevent you from doing
> this?  I have never seen a heater element that did not 
> install with a gasket.




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Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 07:56:08 -0500
From: Mark Kempisty <kempisty at pav.research.panasonic.com>
Subject: Re: Competition Ethics

It has been asked if it is ethical to enter a brew into competition that
you made from somebody else's recipe (even an award winning one).

I personally say yes, it is ethical.  My reasoning is that there are
variations in technique and ingredients that no matter how hard we try,
will give rise to differences.  Part of the judging is to detect
problems caused by technique.  Even the big boys blend batches to
produce a more consistent product.  I do not blame them since it is the
taste (or lack thereof) that is what they are selling.  If it tasted
fine one day and horrible the next, sales wouldn't be what they are.

For several years in the Philly area we had the International Beer of
Champions competition.  This gave a set recipe for extract and all-grain
with allowed maximums for hop and grain changes.  The score ranges for
both the extract and all-grain classes went all the way from single
digits to near perfect.  So there is a lot of variability in technique.
Somehow though, I always ended up in the middle of the pack, sigh.

Take care,
Mark
Richboro, PA




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Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 08:12:17 -0500
From: Fred L Johnson <FLJohnson at portbridge.com>
Subject: RE: 84%! (extraction efficiency)

Teresa is rejoicing over an excellent (unexpected) efficiency in her last
mash. I must, however, her to proceed with some caution. Before she makes
any final conclusions about the potential of her system, she should
demonstrate that it is reproducible.

Teresa: After all, perhaps you had an error in a measurement at some point
in this last batch.  (Did you REALLY put exactly 12.75 pounds of grain into
that last batch, or were there some rounding or weighing errors here?
Perhaps the grain was really, really dry.  Did you thoroughly mix the wort
in the boiling kettle before taking a sample?  And did you get an accurate
measurement of the wort volume before the boil?

I really don't mean to throw cold water on Teresa's experience, because I,
too, would like to bump my efficiency up a bit.  84% is certainly achievable
although I can't with my system.  Whenever I get an efficiency measurement
that deviates more than a few percentage points from the mean that my system
gives me (~72%)--it doesn't happen very often, I ASSUME I made a measurement
error somewhere.

Teresa:  Here's hoping you are correct!  Cheers!
- --
Fred L. Johnson
Apex, North Carolina, USA



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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 09:16:41 -0500 (EST)
From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org>
Subject: pLambic Digest 

Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...

After a test post to the lambic digest lambic at hbd.org, I find
that there are still participants lurking out there. If the list
wishes to move itself to the new digs recently offered by John
Misrahi (https://secure.neap.net/mailman/listinfo/plambic), I
have no qualms! (Except, perhaps, that its archives are only
available to list members. Kind of counter to the "ease of
information" intent to the HBD lists.) In any case, I will
cross-post this message to lambic at hbd.org to ensure the list
members are aware of this new resource...

- -- 
 -
God bless America!

Pat Babcock in SE Michigan         pbabcock at hbd.org
Home Brew Digest Janitor           janitor@hbd.org
HBD Web Site                       http://hbd.org
The Home Brew Page                 http://hbd.org/pbabcock
[18, 92.1] Rennerian
"I don't want a pickle. I just wanna ride on my motorsickle"
                                   - Arlo Guthrie




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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 07:20:59 -0600
From: "charlybill" <charlybill at prodigy.net>
Subject: beer travel question

Hello all,  My wife is traveling to Harrisburg, PA and Indianapolis, IN.
Being the wonderful wife she is, she has offered to bring me back some beer
from these locations. So... can anyone offer suggestions on must try beers
available there that I can't get in Texas?
Thanks,
    Charlie Walker
    Old Okra Brewery
    Lancaster, Texas
    charlybill at prodigy.net



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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 08:55:42 -0500
From: "John Misrahi" <lmoukhin at sprint.ca>
Subject: re. Origins of yeast

Hi all,
The talk about wild yeasts in grapes and apples reminded me of something. I
remember talking to a guy who made apple cider and wine, using only the wild
yeasts from the fruit.

I wonder what the results would be like if one tried to use the wild cider
yeasts to ferment a batch of beer.....

John
Montreal, Canada

 [892, 63] Apparent Rennerian (km)

"You're all wanking sissies if you even think about using a grain mill,
teeth, or ball-peen hammer.  A real brewer uses 17 vestal virgins
stomping on the grain in a large wooden vat.  And yeast is for losers.
True brewers just dip one end of their dog into the wort to get things
going." -- Drew Avis

Seen on a tee shirt - "The internet is full. Go away!"





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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 09:22:11 -0500
From: "Eyre" <meyre at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Metals in lauter..

Hi all!

I could swear I saw the information I am looking for somewhere either on the
net or in one of my books, but I can't seem to find it.. since I want to do
my first all-grain this weekend, I'm starting to running out of time, so
I'll pose the question to you all. Simply, I found all the fittings I needed
for my converted keg and cooler mash-tun at the hardware and specialty
stores in the area.. and I got them all either out of Stainless, brass, or
copper, with the exception of two washers I was needing to sandwich the
gaskets on either side of the bulkhead in the cooler. Either this washer
(the one on the inside is all that matters, I suppose..) is stainless steel
PLATED stuff, or it's some sort of ZINC plated thing. Very shiny, but not
smoothy-shiny, like a chrome bumper would be. The box where I found it at
the store didn't say what it was made from or coated with. Assuming it's a
Zinc plating.. is that going to kill me, or make things taste bad?

Mike

Please note my new email address:

meyre at sbcglobal.net



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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 09:33:25 -0500
From: "Eyre" <meyre at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Something to think about..

Something that was previously discussed on the HBD..

>>The equation that I was going to use was square root of the adiabatic
>>gas constant (gamma) times the gas constant (R) times the absolute
>>temperature (T) divided the molecular mass of the gas. Thus, if the
>>adiabatic constant of CO2 is 1.3, to calculate the speed of sound in the
>>CO2 gas of a beer keg, I would use the following equation:

>v = sqrt( gamma * gas pressure / gas density) and that's equal to
>v = sqrt( gamma * k * T / m) [ boltzmann const and molecular mass]
>v = sqrt(gamma * R*T/ M)  [ gas const and molar mass ]

 -!-----

	Just water, barley, yeast, hops, and 'the adiabatic rule', and beer it is!

	I don't remember seeing that part on Mr. Palmers website in even the
advanced section.
	<chuckling>

Mike

meyre at sbcglobal.net



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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:49:40 -0500
From: "Jason Henning" <jason at thehennings.com>
Subject: Keg Tip for Dave Larsen and Stupid Brewer Trick #714

I'm not laughing at you Dave, I'm laughing with you. Really. Honest!
Hahahaha

When I first got my keg rig, I put the smaller connector on the larger port
and it wouldn't budge. I ended up cutting it off with a hacksaw. So I knew I
had to make sure not to do that again. Most kegs have the rubber handles,
there's a notch in the rubber near the gas-in port. Or is it the liquid-out?
I can't remember. The gas-in port usually has notches in the hex part or has
a daisy shape to it where the wrench goes. Or was that liquid-out port?
Geeze, I'm not sure.

It's easy to mix these up so I put stickers under the liquid-out port.
Bumper stickers work, windows stickers work, and I've even used a decal that
get soaked in water first. Now when you get a beer out of my keg, you get to
see that I'm a Husker fan or I listen to the Dead or I've been to the
Alligator Farm in Florida. The list goes on since I have 30 some kegs
(mostly dirty).

The stickers also make it obvious which kegs are yours when you're at you hb
club party.

- -----------

Stupid Brewer Trip #714: My neighbor was over one Sunday morning when I was
brewing. Being a little distracted, I hooked up my counter-flow chiller
incorrectly. My chiller only has one connector it on , for the hose, I just
slip hoses over the other three ports. Somehow I slipped the hose coming
from the kettle on to the coolant-out port. The hose going to the yard was
put on the hot-wort-in port. Well, I crank the water on and went back in the
garage to start the siphon. I notice the kettle is filling up! I quickly
went from 5g of pale ale to 7g of mild.

It's great when the neighbor would come over and rave about how much he
likes the beer. It really makes the brewer feel good. Then to have those
feelings humbled by being a bungler is pretty funny in hindsight.

Cheers,
Jason Henning

Whitmore Lake MI
Same county as Jeff Renner




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Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 12:20:13 -0500
From: Bill Wible <bill at brewbyyou.net>
Subject: Re: Competition ethics

Brian Lundeen says:

>The big question: should competitions flat out say, you must
>have performed a boil as part of the process to qualify for
>entry? It would, of course, be a completely unenforceable rule,
>but competitions largely rely on the honour system anyway

Brian, I don't think you ever need to worry about one of those
kit beers winning anything in a competition.

Speaking of unenforceble rules, I see a bigger problem with
professional brewers who allegedly brew at home, or the guys
who have the $4,000+ Sabco systems with RIMS controllers and
programmable mash temps that they use.  Those guys win every
time out.  You can always find their names on every winner's
list in every local competition, and usually at least 3 or 4
times, sometimes 6 or 7 times.

They claim to be homebrewers, but they're basically brewing
on professional equipment.  I've complained about this at least
a dozen times.  I envy them, and I wish I had that equipment
myself.  But how fair is it to the rest of us who really ARE
homebrewers - brewing at home, in our kitchen, on a stovetop,
and using our 6 gallon pots, converted coolers, and plastic
buckets and/or glass carboys?

To me, this is no different than going to brew on premise and
entering that beer, that was brewed on professional equipment.
Can you say you really "brewed" that beer in a BOP?  I don't
think so.  Is there a rule against entering BOP beers?  I don't
know. Most competitions just have a general line that says
something like "all beers must be brewed at home."  If there
were such a rule, would it be enforceable?  No way.

I think its unethical to brew a beer at a BOP or the same
thing - on a $4,000 system that does everything for you and
make coffee, too, then enter that beer in a homebrew competition,
and claim you made it at home.

So I have alot less problem with kit beers in competitions than
I do with the guys brewing on professional equipment, or equipment
that is just one small step shy of being professional equipment.
And you can't make or enforce any rules about this, either.

Bill



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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 12:28:52 -0500
From: David Harsh <dharsh at fuse.net>
Subject: Speed of sound / Entering a kit, recipe, whatever

> Darwin Airola <Darwin at hypergalaxy.net> asks about estimating the speed 
> of sound:

If you want to derive it from first principles, Bird, Stewart and 
Lightfoot's Transport Phenomena presents it as an exercise.  Of course, 
I'm not sure that all the effort is worth it unless the minor variances 
in speed with gas molecular weight and pressure will be significant for 
your particular measurement or observational technique.  As an example, 
we time swim meets with hand timers.  Is recording to .01 seconds for a 
100 meter race accurate?

> Regarding what I am doing: My consulting company (HyperGalaxy, Inc.) is
> working on a rather unusual but very fun project that involves beer
> kegs...

If you need more in-depth explanation, your consulting company may need 
to hire some scientists or engineers!

With regard to the specific heat ratio, gamma, being called the 
adiabatic constant, this may be because the product P(V^gamma) is a 
constant for an adiabatic, reversible process involving an ideal gas.  
Naturally, gamma is a function of temperature, but it doesn't vary much 
over moderate temperature ranges.  And of course, no gas is ideal 
either.  (Translation - your results may vary, check your assumptions 
before you blow something up!)
- -----------------------------
There's been questions as to whether its acceptable or ethical to enter 
someone else's recipe or kit in a competition.  Come on now.  This is 
homebrewing.  If you did it at your home, I think you can enter it.  
I've tasted the no boil kits - they are ok.  Nothing that's going to 
win a big prize anywhere.  Other commercial kits - highly variable.  
Someone else's recipe?  If asked, I'd admit that it is my version of 
someone else's beer, but I wouldn't feel guilty about it.  Granted, I'd 
feel better knowing it was a recipe I had formulated or modified to my 
own tastes, but that's life.

Dave Harsh						Cincinnati, OH
Bloatarian Brewing League



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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 12:34:08 -0500 
From: "Romanowsky, Paul" <paul.romanowsky at siemens.com>
Subject: Reuse of Chimay bottles

I have a case of Chimay bottles, (wine type bottles), and I want to use them
to bottle a Chimay Red clone I'm planning on making soon.  Has anyone reused
these bottles and if so did you just use corks to seal?  If not what then?
The originals come with Champagne type corks and wires.  Thanks

Paul Romanowsky




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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:05:07 -0800
From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: the Speed of sound in CO2

Bill wonders about the why's of the Speed of sound in CO2

"And just out of curiosity, why does anybody care what the
speed of sound is inside a CO2 tank?  Is there any practical applicatin for
this?  Just wondering whether this is something useful, or some of you just
have WAY too much time on your hands."

My guess is they're working on a ultrasonic non-invasive level measurement
device for a keg filling line.  It does sound like a fun job!  The last time
I did an ultrasonic level measurement system, it was on a parshall flume for
the inflow at a sewer plant...not *nearly* as fun as beer kegs!

Regards,
Mike Sharp



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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 13:24:18 -0500 
From: "Bridges, Scott" <ScottBridges at sc.slr.com>
Subject: home brewery tip


For those who are contemplating building a home brewery, I recently saw
something in a neighbor's garage that would be a great brewing apparatus.
The neighbor's idea was to make a wash area for their dogs, but as soon as I
laid eyes on it, I immediately exclaimed that it would make a perfect
brewery workstation.  

In a corner of the garage, they installed a regular size bathtub, raised
about three feet off the ground, such that you could wash a dog (or kegs, or
fill carboys, or whatever) without bending over.  They had a faucet with a
sprayer attachment (like in a handicapped bath/shower) coming out of the
wall approx in the middle of the tub.  Perfect for cleaning brew gear.
Obviously, this would involve some plumbing for hot and cold water and a
drain for the waste water.  They solved this problem easily since it was
along the wall opposite a bathroom.

Also, beside the tub they had a raised platform about waist height so that
they could dry/brush the dogs again without bending over.  This to me looked
like a bottling/siphoning station.  

I liked the idea so much that I will be doing something like this in my next
renovation.  Thought it might be useful to others as well.

Scott Bridges 
Brewing in Columbia, SC



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Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 18:30:04 +0000
From: beerbuddy at attbi.com
Subject: Original yeast sources

<SNIP> I have read that the family's passed down magic barrels, or paddles? 
But where do you suppose it started with all these different strains we"
<SNIP>

There are many ideas of where the original beer and yeast came from - but 
anthropologists best guess (and after majoring in anthropology at SuDS 
University and joining the Anthropology/homebrew club, I know they've studied 
it) is that in Mesopotamia some grains (probably spelt) may have been left out 
in the rain overnight, starting the malting process, baked by the sun, 
subsequent rains "mashing and sparging" naturally, then wild yeasts acting to 
ferment the pooled liquids. So discovery of "beer" was probably quite by 
accident.  

Before yeast was understood, the paddles that stirred the fermenting 
concoctions were kept sacred and passed down from generation to generation. The 
wooden paddles would harbor the yeast and keep the strain moderately the same 
from batch to batch. Then Louis Pasteur wanted to know what made beer, and 
discovered yeast. So now our milk is safe to drink, and, more importantly, we 
know how to cultivate particular strains of yeast. 

Whew, that was a dissertation, sorry. There are many books that cover this in 
more detail and with more accuracy, but I hope this helps give a hint. 

Timothy
beerbuddy
North bend, WA


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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:46:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Calvin Perilloux <calvinperilloux at yahoo.com>
Subject: Chest Freezer Versus Refrigerator for Beer Cooling

Darwin, in Wednesday's HBD, asks:
>> Is there any advantage to using a freezer as opposed to 
>> a refrigerator for beer cooling (or vice versa)?

Longtime readers will sure recognise this question!  To give
you an answer, Darwin, there are advantages and disadvantages
to either, all presented in exquisite detail in the HBD archives, 
more detail than you'll get in a week of posts here and now.  

Check out:  http://hbd.org/archives.shtml

It's also accessible from the hbd.org main page. 
A wealth of information, and easy.

Calvin Perilloux
Middletown, Maryland, USA




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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:02:44 -0900
From: Teresa Knezek <teresa at mivox.com>
Subject: RE: 84%! (extraction efficiency)

On or thereabout 2/5/03, Fred L Johnson spoke thusly:
>Teresa is rejoicing over an excellent (unexpected) efficiency in her last
>mash. I must, however, her to proceed with some caution...

Hehe... rain on my parade, why don't you, Mr. Voice of Caution?

I measured the wort by way of my zip-tie measuring stick... 
calibrated by pouring water into my brew pot in 1/2 gallon 
increments, and attaching zip-ties around stick at each new water 
level, and I took one OG measurement with an ATC refractometer 
immediately after the boil, and a second with the last bit of wort 
left in the pot after filling the fermenter an hour later... both 
measurements were the same (I wanted to see how accurate the ATC 
feature was). I don't think the grain was any drier than normal, and 
I was careful when measuring it. But I'm brewing something (don't 
know what yet) this weekend, so we'll see what % I can squeeze out of 
that batch...

>Whenever I get an efficiency measurement that deviates more than a 
>few percentage points from the mean that my system gives me 
>(~72%)--it doesn't happen very often, I ASSUME I made a measurement 
>error somewhere.

Well, if I had boiled from 6.5 down to 5.5, and gotten .068, it would 
have been 72% (the default on the beertools.com calculator). However, 
I only boiled off 1/2 gallon: from 6.5 down to 6 gallons, and got 
 .068... which, according to my PDA brewculator put me at 84%. I do 
know that the crush I got from my grain mill was radically different 
this time because I held the adjustment knob at a "midpoint" setting, 
than when I've used it in the past at one of the pre-set adjustments.
- -- 
:: Teresa ::
http://www.mivox.com/

"Men are not prisoners of fate,
but only prisoners of their own minds."
	-- Franklin D. Roosevelt


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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 20:56:41 -0500 (EST)
From: Steven S <steven at 403forbidden.net>
Subject: herms questions


I'm a week away from moving into the new house complete with the perfect
brewing area (water, sewer and ventilation right where it needs to be) in
the basement.

I want to move to 10 gallon brews and a HERMs system. I like the softer
heat it tends to provide while with the right design offering quicker
heating. I plan on attempting an all electric system. I know some web
pages on the net show electric herms being done but have questions.

the questions
- -------------

 - What size vessel tends to perform best?

 - Converted keg with a large coil and stirrer or a smaller vessel
  (5 gallon cornie) with tigher smaller coil?

 - Does a stirrer mechanism offer measurable advantages?

 - Should the vessel double as a heating vessel for sparge water?

 - What are some average degrees per minute (MAX) I should expect?

 - Have you done electric vs gas HERMS (both) and what are your results?

 - Do you use a specific controller system for the HERMS?



Steven St.Laurent	403forbidden.net	[580.2,181.4] Rennerian


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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 20:19:39 -0600
From: "Tray Bourgoyne" <tray at netdoor.com>
Subject: Good pubs in Norcross, GA

I'm headed to Norcross, GA (Very close to Atlanta) and will be looking for
good brew pubs. I also need a good source to buy good brew by the bottle.
Any one point me in the right direction?

Thanks,

Tray



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