HOMEBREW Digest #4175 Wed 19 February 2003

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  Re: Where to buy quater/half barrel legal kegs (Tom Davidson)
  Dry Yeast ("Bill Tobler")
  Flavoring extracts (Todd Kenna)
  Re:Where to buy quarter/half barrel legal kegs (FRASERJ)
  Dry Yeast is Just Fine (Matt Comstock)
  Dry vs. Liquid Yeast Test (Bob Hall)
  Hydrometers (bruce)
  RE: Draft boxes (Michael Hartsock)
  RE: Bill, Bill, Bill (Michael Hartsock)
  RE: Hydrometers (Michael Hartsock)
  Re: Fossil Fuel ("Jonathan Royce")
  Re: George's $3.50 hopback and some commercial stuff ("Michael O'Donnell")
  Equipment and yeast ("Tracy P. Hamilton")
  Source of Stainless Steel parts, some that could be used for brew ("Romanowsky, Paul")
  Hydrometers & Dry Yeast ("Drew Avis")
  RE: freezing beers (Brian Lundeen)
  Re: RIMS, finally   and 4.5kW electric brewing (Daniel Chisholm)
  Alright.... (Bill Wible)
  energy sources (larry chaney)
  Re: Hydrometers ("Ken Anderson")
  Yeast taste.. ("Eyre")
  Brewing woes and success's ("Chris M")
  Brewing woes and sucess - II ("Chris M")
  Entries Now Being Accepted - St. Patrick's Cascadia Cup ("Iain & Heather")
  Re:Where to buy kegs ("Kevin Morgan")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 23:45:30 -0500 From: Tom Davidson <tj.davidson at comcast.no.net> Subject: Re: Where to buy quater/half barrel legal kegs > Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:10:23 -0500 > From: "Gilbert Milone II" <gilbertmilone at hotmail.com> > Subject: Where to buy quater/half barrel legal kegs > > I'd like to make a new brew kettle, because the clown who welded mine used > non-stainless wire, so it is corroding now. Does anyone know where I could > buy a quater barrell or two from? I would buy a ready made one, but I'm > short on cash and would like to craft my own from all the parts I already > have. http://www.kegs.com/buildyourown.html Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 01:48:07 -0500 From: "Bill Tobler" <WCTOBLER at sbcglobal.net> Subject: Dry Yeast Yesterday, Gregman said he brews extract beer with dry yeast. No way, Greg. You can't possibly make good beer like that. Ok, you can send the sixer to me at 301 Azalea Lake Jackson, TX 77566 Any one else out there who uses dry yeast, can send a sixer to the above address. I like largers, not too hoppy and well balanced. If I knew it was this easy to get free homebrew, I would have quit homebrewing long ago and started posting more often. :>) Bill Tobler Lake Jackson, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 01:20:16 -0800 From: Todd Kenna <Todd_K at cats.ucsc.edu> Subject: Flavoring extracts Has anyone used fruit flavoring extracts in their beers? Do they instill a "chemical" or "fake" flavor as opposed to real fruit? any recommended brands/sources/flavors? Thanks Todd Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 06:47:44 -0500 From: FRASERJ at Nationwide.com Subject: Re:Where to buy quarter/half barrel legal kegs I got mine from a metal recycling yard, $0.30/pound, ended up being about $15.00 per keg. John M. Fraser Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 04:55:02 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Comstock <mccomstock at yahoo.com> Subject: Dry Yeast is Just Fine After a long time away, I happened to read the comments about dry vs. liquid yeasts. To weigh in: I used to dabble with liquid yeast but for the past two years have used nothing but Nottingham. Cheap, easy to use, easy to store, beer tastes great. I think Wyeast is great for making style beers, but when I'm making the house pale ale, I don't like to mess with starters, etc. Why use 1056 when the 'ol Nott works so well? Matt in Cincinnati Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 08:22:35 -0500 From: Bob Hall <rallenhall at toast.net> Subject: Dry vs. Liquid Yeast Test My small brewing group recently participated in an unscientific, blind taste test regarding liquid/dry yeasts. I made a 5 gal. batch of lightly hopped, all-grain blonde ale, divided it among six gallon jugs, and pitched five dry yeasts (Munton's, Cooper's, Nottingham, Whitbred, and Safale-04) and one liquid as a control (White Labs 001 - California Ale). Ales were bottled directly from the primarys, and all procedures including priming level and bottling date were consistent. On Super Bowl Sunday seven of us (five guys, two ladies) gathered around a table for the blind taste test and the ranking of brews from 1 (best) to 6 (worst). The overall winner was the White Labs Californian ... BUT ... it did not receive a majority of first place votes. That honor was shared by several varieties. It was interesting that a tasters #1 ale could have been the next voters #4. The scores seemed to be across the board with the exception of Whitbred, which was #6 on all sheets. In fairness, it was the only yeast that did not have an expiration marking on the packet, so I have no idea how old it was. Also, some of these yeasts probably are not at their best in a blonde ale, but I tried to brew something that would let the yeast characteristics shine through. General comments on the brews/yeasts: WPL-001 = smooth; Nottingham = dryest; Safale-04 = sweetest; Munton's = good flavor; Coopers = tart. I'm not saying that this was at all definitive .... just a little fun. All in all, it told us that 1) flavor is in the mouth of the beholder, 2) good beers with unique profiles can be made with both dry and liquid yeasts, and 3) if you know the profiles of the strains, including dry yeasts, you can match them to your desired outcome. Bob Hall, Napoleon, OH Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:22:43 -0800 From: bruce <vze4pvxk at verizon.net> Subject: Hydrometers Hi, I am also using my old hydrometer I bought in 1978. It has not changed at all. As long as I stick with the same scale, what difference does it make, really, if it is perfect? I like my beer, and that is what matters. Remember, this is beer we are making, not rocket ships. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 06:47:57 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Hartsock <xd_haze at yahoo.com> Subject: RE: Draft boxes I don't know about the tubing you used. Is it vinyl, PE, or PP, or latex? If I were you, I would just go to the hardware store and get HDPE white tubing. Its very cheap, and I am very confident that it won't release off flavors. I remember reading somewhere (don't remember where) that someone bought tubing from a beer store and it tasted bad. Something about a roll being labeled wrong or cut from the wrong roll. Its always a possibility. But if you go pick it out and it is labeled foodgrade HDPE... you can't go wrong. mike Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 06:56:38 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Hartsock <xd_haze at yahoo.com> Subject: RE: Bill, Bill, Bill Maybe we should ignore the trolls who pretend to know everything about beer against common opinion and common knowledge. W(B)ill they go away? Dry yeast is good, there is no microbiological reason why it would produce different beers other than the strain that was freeze dried, which is the issue not the fact that it is dry. If you take a freeze dried strain and make a starter with it, and the yeast reproduces (as all yeast does), it is no different than a liquid yeast started. At that point, both are live yeast in medium. The only problem with dry yeast is the purity of the strain in the package and storage conditions. This has nothing to do with the fact that it is dry, but a prolem with the manufacturer. BTW, Bill, I'm a trained microbiologist, so I'm pretty sure that i'm not an idiot when it comes to yeast. mike University of Missouri - Columbia Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 07:02:54 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Hartsock <xd_haze at yahoo.com> Subject: RE: Hydrometers This is a common problem. I'm going over the Fisher Sci catalog listings for hydrometers Couple of variables: 1) does it meet ASTM standards for accuracy? 2) Is it calibrated, i.e. does it have a certificate? 3) What temperature is is calibrated to? 60? 68? 4) How many mL of sample does it require for an accurate sample. I surmise that too narrow of a sample tube would affect accuracy. 5) All devices have an error margin. Do you know what it is? A one point calibration for hydrometers (in my opinion) is not sufficient. the following was posted to another group: S.G. grams/liter lbs/gallon 0.9982 0.000 0.000 1.0099 30.3 0.2528 1.0219 61.31 0.5117 1.0423 114.7 0.9568 This will give you a linear error correction factor mike Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:35:02 -0500 From: "Jonathan Royce" <jtroyce at earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Fossil Fuel "I didn't realise uranium was a fossil fuel??? Reuben W.A" For those who are splitting hairs along with their atoms, I should have said: "...electricity is produced by first burning fossil fuels or by a nuclear reaction that creates heat, and (regardless of the energy source) today's plants are (at best) 40% efficient." Jonathan Woodbury Brewing Co. www.woodburybrewingco.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 07:56:13 -0800 From: "Michael O'Donnell" <mooseo at stanford.edu> Subject: Re: George's $3.50 hopback and some commercial stuff George, Thanks for a most interesting post... >Almost all commercial breweries (and many homebrewers) utilize a whirlpool >rest to remove hot break and hop debris from the wort. At home and at the >brewpub the procedure is the same: stir the wort for a minute or so (until >it is all moving at a few rpm), then stop stirring and allow it to settle >for 10-30 minutes (the more shallow your kettle, the less time it will take >for the stuff to settle to the bottom center). This is something that I have wondered about for a while. Once i have the break material settled in the middle of the kettle, how to best separate it from the wort? My kettle has a spigot with a dip-tube down to the middle of the bottom. Should I drain off the break first and discard it, or should I move the tube off to the side a ways? Thanks, mike Monterey, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:06:46 -0600 From: "Tracy P. Hamilton" <hamilton at uab.edu> Subject: Equipment and yeast I think equipment does matter. So does the use it is put to - technique. Consider cooling of wort - does a counterflow vs. immersion chiller matter? Definitely yes. How it affects the brew is less clear, but the received wisdom is that the fast break is better. In both cases the brewer is taking steps to cool the wort. Then there is filtering. Some members in our club did a little experiment on a filtered vs. unfiltered Kolsch, and the filtered Kolsch won a best of show in a homebrew competition. This was not due to a difference in brewing technique. About yeast, of course it matters, too. Dry yeast is just fine, and enables those who don't want to bother with starters (oxygen, stir plates?) to have very healthy yeast pitches. There are fewer dry yeasts available, so for brewers interested in variety it is not as practical. Tracy P. Hamilton Birmingham Brewmasters Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 11:35:25 -0500 From: "Romanowsky, Paul" <paul.romanowsky at siemens.com> Subject: Source of Stainless Steel parts, some that could be used for brew Just thought I would pass this info along. I was in my local hardware store asking about Stainless Steel pipe fittings and they directed my to a local supplier, (about 7 miles from my home). I looked them up on the web today and found they have a lot of good stainless steel items that would be useful in brew equipment. They do mail order also. Here's the link: http://www.jschmidtstainless.com/intro.htm Then click on the HARDWARE link Paul Romanowsky Harleysville, PA Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 11:39:41 -0500 From: "Drew Avis" <andrew_avis at hotmail.com> Subject: Hydrometers & Dry Yeast Brewers: last night I had to poor fortune to knock my hydrometer on the floor, where it shattered. Perhaps this is for the best - it was a very cheap model, though it always seemed fairly accurate to me... anyway, all the posts about hydrometer accuracy have me thinking - is there a brand of hydrometer that folks can recommend? Where does one get a super-accurate hydrometer? All I can find at the LHBS are the cheap $10 kind. On the never-ending yeast debate, I'd like to throw out this challenge to Bill: let's go head-to-head in a competition and see if your liquid yeast beer can beat my dry yeast swill. I just brewed a porter and schwartzbier this weekend and pitched dry yeast - S-04 in the porter, S-189 in the Schwartzbier. I plan to enter the porter in an upcoming comp, and the Schwartzbier if it's ready. I'm also going to enter an American Light Lager (no hiding bad yeast flavours there, eh?) which was fermented w/ DCL 34/70. So, send one of your beers in any of these styles to March in Montreal (http://www.realbeer.com/caba/) and let's put this dead horse to rest. Oh yeah, my system did *not* cost $4000! (Unless you count the time I spent on it...) And if this debate has sapped your will and creativity for naming beers, check out my new Random Beer Name Generator: http://www.stragebrew.ca/beername.php . Cheers! Drew Avis, Member of Barleyment for Greater Metro Merrickville, Ontario http://www.strangebrew.ca Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:54:51 -0600 From: Brian Lundeen <BLundeen at rrc.mb.ca> Subject: RE: freezing beers Jeff Renner presents us with a bit of a poser: > > "Freddie Freshman left five bottles of beer on his window sill > overnight. Their alcohol contents were 3.5%, 3.7%, 3.9%, 4.1% and > 4.3% by weight. The first two froze, the remaining three did not. > What was the range of minimum temperatures overnight?" > The correct answer is, of course.... -40C. The remaining beers were stolen by Freddie's friends who knew about his penchant for leaving beers outside, drank them, and thus they did not freeze. And for what it's worth, I think Cliff Clavin should have won on Jeopardy. ;-) Cheers Brian Lundeen Brewing at [819 miles, 313.8 deg] aka Winnipeg Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:35:23 -0400 From: Daniel Chisholm <dmc at nbnet.nb.ca> Subject: Re: RIMS, finally and 4.5kW electric brewing Lou King wrote: (...built his RIMS....) Congratulations! > Everything went fine, with only a little concern about the mash getting > stuck. I believe there is a line between pumping too quickly (stuck > mash) and pumping too slowly (scorched wort). I don't know how fine > that line is, though. Turning the pump off (to let the weight of the > wort clear out the false bottom), then on seemed to do the trick. I visited your web site, and saw that one of your to-do items is to "insert a vacuum gauge after the mash tun, but before the pump to measure the pump suction" What I do is have a tee fitting attached to my mash tun outlet. On the branch I have about 20" of clear siphon tubing (the "run" side goes to my pump inlet). This effectively acts as a "vacuum gage", in that the wort level gives a direct reading of how much suction you're pulling. I usually limit my pump's outflow such that the liquid level in this "sight gauge" is an inch or two above the tee fitting. This means that I am draining liquid at a rate slightly less that wide-open-gravity flow.... I have thought about, but have yet to turn the "branch" side so that it is pointing down, so that I can measure several inches of "negative" pressure (without sucking in air). The idea here is to increase my flow rate, yet be able to measure it so that I can find out at what point compaction happens, and then avoid that. Someday Real Soon Now, I will do this, really..... ;-) A quick note on a query from a few days ago re: hybrid gas/electric brewing. I use an all-electric brewery, a converted keg (50L) with a 3kW and a 4.5kW element, each controlled by a 79 cent light switch. The 3kW element on it's own produces an adequate boil (actually, I'd ideally like to be able to throttle is back to 50-75% power - might do this Real Soon Now). The 4.5kW element produces an overly violent boil (it can't be left running unattended). For heating up water, it's really nice to be able to use both elements, but if I had too I could (at some increase in time) brew using a kettle with just one 3kW element. I've also run the 3kW element at 120V (therefore 750 watts) --> this is too little to sustain a boil (I guesstimate therefore that my uninsulated kettle probably has about 1kW of heat loss). FWIW. - -- - Daniel Fredericton, NB Canada Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 12:41:56 -0500 From: Bill Wible <bill at brewbyyou.net> Subject: Alright.... Alright, Alright, Alright Can we just let this die? Please? If you're making good beer with dry yeast, more power to you. I don't have a high opinion of it, and that's not going to change. Apparently, I'm in the minority. Dry yeast is great. I believe you. Nobody has to send me any beer. In fact, I have a better idea. To show I'm a man, for the rest of this week, I will send a free pack of dry yeast to anybody from this digest who emails me their address. Limited time offer, act right now. Experienced brewers tend to have better systems, so maybe it seems the better and more expensive systems are a reflection of an experienced brewer, not the other way around. I can accept that. I was wrong there. Fine. I agree. Let this die. I was wrong. You've all convinced me. Let's all move on to another topic. Thanks Bill Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 11:43:48 -0800 (PST) From: larry chaney <chaneylj at yahoo.com> Subject: energy sources In the US, nuculear energy is the source for approximately 20% of electricity generated. And since a nuclear plant is basically a steam plant, I doubt that the efficiency is much over 30%. Coal accounts for approximately 50% of the electricity generated, and the efficiency of coal plants is at best in the low 30s. A modern gas turbine combined cycle plant can achieve 60% (LHV) efficiency. But whether it is wise to burn precious natural gas to generate electricity is another topic altogether. A much better use of natural gas is to heat your brew kettle. relax, have a home brew Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:59:33 -0500 From: "Ken Anderson" <aken75 at adelphia.net> Subject: Re: Hydrometers Doug, I share your annoyance. Here's what I did, using some of the information from this site, http://www.knology.net/~sprevost/beerwine/cal.htm, which I hope is accurate. First, I simply found the temperature at which my hydrometer reads 1.000. Sixty degrees doesn't work? Find the temperature that does - 80, in my case. Next I weighed out 33 grams of sugar, then topped up with water for a total of 150 grams. This gives 22% by weight of dissolved sugar, and will give you enough liquid to fill your cylinder. This should read 1.092 with an accurate hydrometer. Then I heated (or cooled, as the case may be) the solution to 80 degrees, and measured. I did it three times, and got 92, 90, and 90. Close enough for me, given the errors that I may have introduced in the process. My conclusion? I've got a hydrometer that's accurate at its newly determined calibration temperature of 80 degrees. Actually, 80 is a pretty handy temperature to work with. Now to just keep from breaking it! Ken Anderson - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.434 / Virus Database: 243 - Release Date: 12/25/02 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 16:57:08 -0500 From: "Eyre" <meyre at sbcglobal.net> Subject: Yeast taste.. Hey! I just finished the whole process here of fermenting a store bought (stop and Shop) gallon of apple juice. Just grabbed a gallong, champagne yeasted it, and let 'er rip for a week or so (I forger how long, really..) bottled and primed, and now I've tasted the first two bottles. Quite a fun drink for the $2.40 I've got into it.. Only problem I see (taste?) is that the yeast flavor is REALLY apparent. And I mean REALLY. It's like a chunk of the yeast off the bottom oer mouthful.. but it's so good otherwise, if I could just get rid of the yeaste flavor, it'd be great.. what's my problem here? How do I nuke that flavor from the finished product? Mike Please note my new email address: meyre at sbcglobal.net Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 09:49:28 +1100 From: "Chris M" <chrismac_aus at hotmail.com> Subject: Brewing woes and success's Hi All, I bottle an Amber Ale ( extract brew ) on the weekend and used White Labs irish yeast, i decided to re-pitch another brew ontop of the yeast bed in the fermenter ( there was a period of about 2 hours where the fermenter was empty except for the yeast bed as i had to bottle the Ale first ), i was also concerned about the old yeast/hops scum at the top of the fermenter but proceeded ahead without touching the fermenter in any way shape or form, i threw in the extract, added the usual light malt/dextrose/maltodextrin, put the lid on and left it alone, silently praying it wasn't going to be a disaster. The air lock was bubbling after a period of approx 8 hours which was amazing. I had gone out earlier so not really sure what time it kicked off, well 3.5 days later it has FG of 1005, it wasn't a particularly big brew but it is a little cloudy as it is quite warm this time of year, the beer is rather fruity and light in flavour, i will add some gelatine finings in the next day and then bottle. Q: When brewing like this do you clean the old scum from the top inch of the fermenter or do you leave it alone, i decided to leave it. I have tasted the brew and it is fine. I think in the future i will try and have the brew ready to go straight onto the yeast bed as soon as th e fermenter is empty. Should i be concerned about how long i leave the yeast bed alone in the fermenter, i usually transfer to another carboy and bulk prime before bottling. I brew inside so there are no major temp fluctuations. Thanks. Chris. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 10:00:01 +1100 From: "Chris M" <chrismac_aus at hotmail.com> Subject: Brewing woes and sucess - II Hi All, I decided to try a batch of beer using 1.5kg of honey with a cheap can of extract, i took the attitude of 'experiment' and i was in a rush and did not boil the ingredients feeling all would be well, i did add a litre of hot water to the hops for about 5 mins to break them up. I had a sachet of Safale dry yeast and decided to rehydrate it in luke warm water in a glas jug and then covered it with plastic wrap and left it alone for about an hour, i threw the ingredients into the fermenter and then pitched the yeast. At bottling it tasted fine although a little sweet, summer in Aus can be vicious and i made the mistake of leaving the bottles out in the sun for more than a few days. After a month they tasted suspiciouse so i visited my LHBS and they confirmed it was infected - describing a taste of rubber ?? I believe the heat affected them more than my earlier assumption of not boiling the ingredients prior to adding to the fermenter, on some occasions i have boiled the extract can in the past but the LHBS dont't feel it is beneficial as you boil out the hop oils and loose bitterness and arome so i have stopped boiling the can extract, at worst i did not boil the honey and hops at all. Comments. Thanks. Chris. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:32:57 -0800 From: "Iain & Heather" <house.cat at verizon.net> Subject: Entries Now Being Accepted - St. Patrick's Cascadia Cup We are now accepting entries for the 7th Annual World Renowned St. Patrick's Cascadia Cup Homebrew Competition. The competition will be on Saturday March 8, 2003 at Bear Creek Brewing Co. / Northwest Brewhouse & Grill in Redmond, WA. (http://www.bearcreekbrewing.com/) The competition is BJCP and AHA sanctioned, and as always, we can use as many judges as possible. The competition features cash award certificates for the top three finishers in each flight and more great prizes for first place and Best of Show winners. Up to three winning beers will be brewed by our region's local microbreweries. This is the largest industry- sponsored homebrew event in the State, if not the Pacific Northwest! To help reduce paperwork, please use the Online Registration Wizards: Judge Registration Wizard: http://www.HordsOfFun.Com/hbc/judgewiz.asp?w=0A0E100707 Entry Registration Wizard: http://www.HordsOfFun.Com/hbc/regwiz.asp?w=0A0E100707 Additional competition details are available on our website: http://www.cascadebrewersguild.org/ Thanks in advance, Iain Ross Cascade Brewers Guild 7th Annual St. Patrick's Cascadia Cup Homebrew Competition Organizer house.cat at verizon.net Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 22:32:33 -0500 From: "Kevin Morgan" <kevin.morgan2 at verizon.net> Subject: Re:Where to buy kegs Gilbert Milone II said "Where to buy quater/half barrel legal kegs I'd like to make a new brew kettle," snip My reply Try the Fleamarket on HBD.ORG Kevin, brewing in south jersey (or at least I will when the blizzard stops) Return to table of contents
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