HOMEBREW Digest #4230 Sat 26 April 2003

[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]

		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


          Northern  Brewer, Ltd. Home Brew Supplies
        http://www.northernbrewer.com  1-800-681-2739

    Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

  The Beer Triangle (was "Triangle Test and Acid") ("pddey")
  Re: Sealing a conical lid - Why Bother? (Phil Sides Jr)
  starch haze (Robert Sandefer)
  RE: Sealing a conical (eIS) - Eastman" <stjones at eastman.com>
  Re: triangle tests, statistics and lies (Larry Bristol)
  good beer in Eastern KY/Western West Virginia? ("chris lee")
  HBD: First brew: Bottles (K.M.)" <kmuell18 at visteon.com>
  Bottle source (Randy Ricchi)
  beer in Tabor CZ. ("Dr. Pivo")
  More Triangle ("A.J. deLange")
  Frustrated Brian (Michael Fross)
  coffee on tap??? ("jim williams")
  yeast labs weizen yeast and stats (Robin Griller)
  Re: yeast infections (Michael Hartsock)
  witbier recipe (Marc Sedam)
  Kegging Newbie (Caryl Hornberger Slone)
  infection problem ("John Misrahi")
  Re: coals to Newcastle (Stan Burnett)
  Dr. Pivo's thing :) (Jesse Stricker)
  RE: more on fuel alcohol ("Mike Sharp")
  Astringency (Leo Vitt)
  screw top bottles (Leo Vitt)
  A Couple of Questions ("Val J. Lipscomb")
  Website for Draft System Balancing? ("na br")

* * Show your HBD pride! Wear an HBD Badge! * http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/shopping * * The HBD Logo Store is now open! * http://www.cafeshops.com/hbdstore * * Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! * Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!! To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!** IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address for the automation - that's your job. HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org. The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit. More information is available by sending the word "info" to req at hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org. JANITOR on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 22:12:05 -0600 From: "pddey" <pddey at netzero.net> Subject: The Beer Triangle (was "Triangle Test and Acid") I posted in HBD4226 a query for tips on conducting a triangle test to determine whether the "red ale" several members of our club (The High Plains Drafters) brewed from the same recipe could be distinguised consistently from one another. A wealth of excellent information was posted in response in this forum (promised toast tipped NOW) and I intend to provide a full summary of the results (and how I arrived at them) after May 3 when we conduct our evaluation. Especially interesting was 4 different individuals suggesting 4 different statistical approaches. That cat gonna be bare when I get done wit it! Reminds me of my thesis defense: "Yes, Paul, uhmm, would you please explain to us why you chose to apply Sheffe's test?" Awkward silence. "Uh, well. Uhhh. Hm., lets see. Oh yeah., well, you see, there are several options for post-hoc analysis following a significant ANOVA and I chose....blah....blah....blah. They let me out of the room and I ain't going back. P.S. 47% of all statistics are made up on the spot. Paul in Cheyenne Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 00:13:26 -0400 From: Phil Sides Jr <altoidman at altoidman.com> Subject: Re: Sealing a conical lid - Why Bother? "Don Van" <dvanv at earthlink.net> writes: >Fermentors don't have to be 100% sealed from the outside environment. If >you ever go on a tour of Anchor Brewery in San Francisco, you will see >fermentors that are shallow open air fermentors. This is not the only >brewery that uses open fermentors. While I don't disagree that open fermentations can be a great thing, I wanted to point out that those coolships at Anchor are sealed in a positive pressure room with HEPA air filtration. I am sure there is an uber geek out there reading this who does have this setup at home so I'll stop short of saying no homebrewer does ;-) I can say for certain that this homebrewer doesn't and my house is not microbially clean enough for me to be convinced open fermentations are a good idea for me. In case you are wondering, I developed this opinion experimenting with agar plates open to atmosphere in my fermentation area. Phil Sides, Jr. Silver Spring, MD Need a good laugh today? Join Altoidman's Humor List - http://www.altoidman.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 03:03:50 -0400 From: Robert Sandefer <melamor at vzavenue.net> Subject: starch haze In Digest #4224, I posted a set of questions that went unanswered. :( Assuming the Group has no answer for those questions, I will ask a related one: Beyond aesthetics, why is a starch haze bad/undesirable? Robert Sandefer Arlington, VA Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 07:47:59 -0400 From: "Jones, Steve (eIS) - Eastman" <stjones at eastman.com> Subject: RE: Sealing a conical Mark Vernon suggests purchasing a replacement oring from one of the suppliers who sell the conical fermenters to seal the lid. I have a TMS 12.2, and bought the gasket from BBMB. It is a split tube, sealed together at the end to form a ring. It slips over the edge of the hopper. However, during fermentation, I get no bubbles out of the airlock unless there is a weight of 15+ lbs on the lid, so it doesn't provide an airtight seal. I haven't devised a hold-down for my lid, but I am no longer sure that it is necessary. I've fermented 5 batches in it now, and even in the case that the beer was left in the conical for 4+ weeks, they all turned out quite good. I managed to ferment a lager in it for the first time in February - it is located in my unheated garage, and by putting an insulated box over it I was able to maintain 50F. Last week I brewed a CAP, and finished my chilling system at the same time. I installed some 2" PVC pipe and a small fan that pulls cold air from my cold box (a thermostatically controlled freezer extension) into the fermenter chamber, and returns it back to the box. The fan runs continuously, and I need to keep the extension box at about 46F to keep the fermenter chamber at 50F. Later this summer I will rearrange my setup and add another Johnson controller to control the fan, running the fermenter chamber directly off my freezer. One thing to be aware of when dropping yeast out of the dump valve is suckback in the airlock. When I'm going to open the dump valve, I pull out the airlock and place an alcohol soaked cotton pad over the airlock hole. Steve Jones, Johnson City, TN State of Franklin Homebrewers http://hbd.org/franklin [421.8 mi, 168.5 deg] Apparent Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 06:57:02 -0500 From: Larry Bristol <larry at doubleluck.com> Subject: Re: triangle tests, statistics and lies On Thursday 24 April 2003 6:12 pm, -S wrote: > After the an excellent posts by Frank Tutzauer, AJ deLange and Larry > Bristol I pulled mine, but Larry of the iso8859 font writes ..., > >> A statistical curiousity about the Chi Square test is that it cannot >> be used to PROVE anything; all it can do is DISPROVE something. >> That something is called the "null hypothesis" > > WHOA THERE, Larry. Chi square (and also the Z binomial test > which Frank correctly mentions) disproves nothing !! Did I not say that liars can figure? :-) - -- Regards, Larry Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 05:22:19 -0700 (PDT) From: "chris lee" <chris_lee at beer.com> Subject: good beer in Eastern KY/Western West Virginia? i need help! i'm on an extended field assignment with FEMA in Eastern Kentucky helping local communities recover from the big winter ice storm in february and i'm having trouble finding craft-brewed beer. does anyone have any leads? i'm stationed in Morehead, KY but i think i'll be moving to Ashland, KY (near Huntington, West Virginia). any info. would be appreciated! thanks, ~~Chris "Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'sir' without adding, 'you're making a scene.'"Homer J. Simpson - ---------- Why be boringcat at badjob.com when you can be beerlover at beer.com? Sign up for Beer Mail today - http://www.beer.com ! Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 08:41:52 -0400 From: "Mueller, Kevin (K.M.)" <kmuell18 at visteon.com> Subject: HBD: First brew: Bottles Ryan, Where are you located? If anywhere near Canton, MI (suburbs of Detroit), you can swing by my house and pick up a few cases. Or by them from the local home brew store (I recommend Adventures in Homebrewing in Dearborn, also online at .http://homebrewing.org/, although I didn't see bottles on their online catalog, I know they sell them there.) Other alternatives are other online HB stores, local restaurants, distributors, recyclers. Kevin Canton, MI Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 11:08:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Ryan Neily < > Subject: First Brew: Bottles? I am about to be Bottling my first batch of Homebrew, and I have a question about bottles. Can someone tell me a cheap place to get 48 or so bottles? Also, I read somewhere that it was a bad idea to use screw cap bottles. Has anyone tried using IBC glas root-beer bottles? I figure I can drink a case of root-beer (giving it to the kids) in the next three weeks and use those if it's not a problem that they have screw type cap on them... - -- Ryan Neily ryan at neily.net Random Quote: A baby is God's opinion that the world should go on. -- Carl Sandburg Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 08:53:09 -0400 From: Randy Ricchi <rricchi at houghton.k12.mi.us> Subject: Bottle source Ryan is wondering where to get bottles. Ryan, just go to your local store and ask if you can pay the deposit on a couple cases of empties. Make sure you don't get any that were used as ash trays, and try to select ones with good boxes. In Michigan, the deposit is ten cents per bottle, and 30 cents for the box. I wouldn't go with screw-type bottles. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 14:46:54 +0200 From: "Dr. Pivo" <dp at pivo.w.se> Subject: beer in Tabor CZ. Stan Burnett is a lucky dog. The obvious answer you will be getting is that beer is so cheap and you can get a great one, well.... not exactly around every corner... but more likely before you reach the corner, and then even a better one once you round the corner, that there's not much homebrewing incentive. Having such a strong beer culture, you will, by way of local hounds be able to search out the "best". In one of my old "hangs", U Zlateho Tygra in Prague, it was common knowledge that Tuesday was a better day than Wednesday to drink there... because that was when they got the barrels delivered fresh..... you stood outside just before three (had to get there early since 3/4 of the stools were "reserved" for the local regulars), and could watch the barrels get unloaded and lowered through the grate in the street. And what was then serven inside was pure magic. The significance of this, was that there were only very few pubs that got the 50 litre barrel delivery, and the rest "bulk"....... and my son, trust me, even the untrained can tell the difference. If we say that the fresh barrell stuff was an order of magnitide better, and the bulk delivered, which was in turn an order of magnitude better than the bottled, you can imagine to which sights your taste buds can soar after comparing with the shaken, warm stored, old surrogate that ends up as an export. Why this is relevant to Tabor, is that the new economic pressures that have arrived since ol' Checho has finally gotten the "bear" off his back, have change the brewing world radically there. Prazdroi (Urquell) went through a radical modernisation in '93 as I recall, and while they wisely retained a functioning remnant of the old brewery as a "reference", it is an entirely different beer made in the new factory. How this becomes relevant to you as a taster, is that they can mix and match as they choose, and some customers continued to receive "the original" original. (or "urquell urquell" or even "prazdroi prazdroi" if you like). And how does this long windedness take us to Tabor you may ask? Even after the first time I walked back into the Tygra and saw that the head not only looked different, and the cloying taste of lactic acid, and obvious pasteurization had replaced my beloved masterpiece, I payed a visit to Tabor, and lo and behold in a "monk" style restaurant, I was served up that "tarry" rich, Saaz/diacetyl aroma explosion bomb......... many, many, many times. Nearly enough to make a grown man cry. While there, you are close enough to Humpolic that you should be able to find a Bernard. They have retained the traditional flavour profile, and as a non pasteurised it remains that way. They have recently been bought up by a Belgian concern, so I don't know if they are still toeing the mark. I won't even mention what you can find if you venture southwest., but you WILL NOT be dissapointed. What I think you will find in a longer stay in Czecho, is an entire different definition of what beer is, evolving in your head. "Balance" will no longer mean "whimpy", and "elegant" will not be an equivalent to "lacking in character". You will understand the term "liquid bread" in an intimate rather than jesting manner. In short, well, yes, I'm jealous as hell. As to homebrewing, I've never heard of it being done there. This can have its advantages. Brewing is a proud tradition there, and if you know your stuff, you can be admitted to that group. Being called "brother" and "Sladek" by brewmasters there, and actually having them want to know what little old me thought of a particular brew, has well, not only given me that "fuzzy" feeling, but driven my urge to know more. They respect people who love the art, and if you show a proper blend of humbleness, interest, humour, and knowledge, you might just get a Carte Blanche to poke your head everywhere, ask questions, and tap direct from the lagering tanks. You can't learn that stuff any other way. So while you might not be getting any direct homebrewing experience there, you can learn a tonne, and probably more importantly, build up a personal taste reference that will forever change your ideas about "what kind of beer I want to make". And when people suggest brewing techniques drawn from the modern industry, that make the "clean taste of a lager", well, you don't have to like me, start snickering and guffawing, but just gently smile, and wistfully recall what you learned from the masters there, and that filthy rich well balanced flavour they produced. Dr. Pivo Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 13:02:06 +0000 From: "A.J. deLange" <ajdel at cox.net> Subject: More Triangle I feel I should respond to a couple of things WRT to triangle tests. First, Frank's comments about substituting the z distribution for the binomial. While it is true that this should give sufficiently accurate results for large N there is really no reason to use the approximation unless you are doing the calculations by hand. I wouldn't mind doing the difference test computation by hand but I certainly woudn't want to do the preference test by hand for more than a few beers. Computer subroutines don't much care whether they have to do a lot or a little computation and are as happy computing the binomial coeffients of order 20 as they are when doing them for 5 or 6. With modern machines the time required isn't an issue so I feel you might as well use the binomial formula for all cases rather than add the condition test to the software to make it switch to another method if N is above some value. Now with respect to the experiment design. The panelists first job is to find the odd beer by whatever means. In a case where the smell of the beers is detectably different they've already done that though I suppose you could argue that it's possible that taste and smell would lead to different conclusions as to which is the odd beer. The procedure does say "Decide which of the samples has and odor or flavor that is different from the other two". A conclusion that A is odd based on smell and B is different based on taste would have to be erroneous, of course, but having erroneous results is definitely part of what the test is about and ulitamately the panelist has to pick one criterion or the other on which to base his choice. Just to be perfectly clear the panelists are given the beers in randomized order. It is not a question of the exprerimenter declaring beer B to be the smellier one and instructing the panelist to taste it after tasting the other. All the above is mooted by the fact that the procedure to be followed is the procedure to be followed not because it is or isn't right but because it is the procedure dictated by the ASBC. When you say "Beer B was detectably different from Beer A to a confidence level of .01 and preferred to a confidence level of .05 by a panel of 20 judges using MOA Beer-30" that means that you followed the dictates of Beer-30 down to the ruby colored glasses drained without contact with a flat surface. If you didn't follow the detailed dictates of the procedure don't say you did - state what the deviations were . The MOAs are the result of years of work by ASBC subcommittees and almost always involve substantial collaborative test programs. Thus, right or wrong, things are done the way they are done for a reason. No one says, of course, that you must adhere to the ASBCs test procedure (or the EBCs or anyone elses for that matter) so long as you tell anyone you share results with what you did. Further, you are free to write to the ASBC offerning your opinion that the MOA is flawed. If they see merit in your argument they will reconvene the committee and study the question further and, should testing prove you right, adopt the change. This particular MOA was issued in 1969 and revised in 1975. Finally, Doc P's (whom we haven't seen much of lately) comment about standardized confidence levels: The MOA does not explicitly recommend a confidence level. The table in the MOA (I'll bet a 6-pack of your favorite it's the one you got from Louis) lists values for confidence levels of .05, .01 and .001. A.J. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 08:03:02 -0500 From: Michael Fross <michael at fross.org> Subject: Frustrated Brian > Brian Writes: > I lost those 5 gallons, but that doesn't really bother me. What > bothers me is that I'm tired of making terrible beer. Hello Brian, Here are a few of my thoughts. - If you have never had an infection or other problems related to sanitation then you are probably ok there (although the move you focus on this the better). - I recently moved to all grain brewing and it has improved my beer dramatically. I mean Dramatically. And the first thing my brewing partner said to me when we were done was, "Wow. It was that easy?" If you need a hand, I'd be happy to help. I'm a big fan of batch sparging and it has worked great over the last few batches. But I wouldn't consider myself any sort of authority on the subject. - The best way is probably to hook up with someone that makes great beer and offer to help him/her. This will let you ask a million questions and see how they do it. In my experience, brewers love to talk about brewing. Check out any local homebrew clubs or homebrew shops. You can also search news groups or HBD archives and see if anyone is in your area. Let me know if I can help. Cheers, Frosty Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 09:05:27 -0400 From: "jim williams" <jimswms at cox.net> Subject: coffee on tap??? so, I have a bakery that sells ALOT of Iced coffee in the summer. The natural solution was to put it on tap, much like I use at home. ie: corny keg, co2 lines, faucet tap. It works great, only, occasionally, we get a funky taste in it. It's almost prickly like carbonation. However, the keg is emptied and cleaned daily, and is kept at room temp all day long. Any ideas about possible problems here? This is too good of a setup to abandon at this point. I can't figure out what the problem is. Is there something in the coffee (very acidic, of course) not kosher with stainless and plastic? what about room temp coffee? cheers, jim Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 10:01:23 -0400 From: Robin Griller <rgriller at chass.utoronto.ca> Subject: yeast labs weizen yeast and stats Hi all, Apologies if I've misunderstood the question re yeast labs' weizen yeast, but I asked Dan McConnel about it and he said yckc a50 was the same yeast, so I ordered a slant of it. It's sitting in my fridge, hasn't been used. It's almost 1 year old, so not sure if the yeast is still viable, but if this is indeed the yeast, I could try culturing it up for other people... re the stats and triangle tests, as a social scientist, my own inclination would be to be very careful about reaching any conclusions using inferential statistics when you don't have a random sample, so I would be inclined to not reach strong conclusions on the basis of these tests...I know, 'robust' statistics and all that, but really the probability distributions are based on random samples, which I doubt any of us will have! Add in the tiny samples.... Robin Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 07:18:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Hartsock <xd_haze at yahoo.com> Subject: Re: yeast infections I agree whole heartedly. Unless you directly inoculate the vagina, such a yeast infection is a veritable impossibility. Furthermore, evidence suggests that live brewers yeast (because it is a beneficial part of the natural flora and it beneficially affects vaginal pH) helps prevent "bad" yeast infections. As a matter of fact, douching (sp?) with lactobacti (i.e. yogurt) is a home remedy to solve yeast infections. Both lactobacti and S. cerevisiae are considered beneficial natural flora. For either to be a source of serious infection, you would have to be severely immuno-compromised. One other thing that i will add: If S. cerevisiae can with stand the acidity, pH, temperature, and then manage to ferment the more complex sugars remaining in the lower GI and Vagina.... then we are being far to anal retentive with our pitching methods. Michael University of Missouri-Columbia Medical School Columbia, MO ===== "May those who love us, love us. And those that don't love us, May God turn their hearts. And if he doesn't turn their hearts, may he turn their ankles So we'll know them by their limping." Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 10:41:30 -0400 From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> Subject: witbier recipe David P. asks for a witbier recipe. I just made this one and love it. It is more lightly spiced than most, but I don't like to be beaten over the head with the spices either. If you want a more heavily spiced version, triple the amount of coriander. _________________________ FOR 10 GALLONS 10lbs German 2-row pils malt 7.5lbs malted wheat (I know it should be unmalted...oh well) 1lb oat groats Mash at 148F for one hour using a 1.5qt/lb water/grist ratio. Raise to 170F for mash out. Sparge with 175F water. HOPS AND "OTHER" ADDITIONS 1oz Horizon (13%aa) pellets -- 60 mins 2 Whirlfloc tablets -- 20 mins (to help with protein break) 1oz bitter orange peel -- 10 mins 0.4oz freshly ground coriander -- 10 mins 1oz dried chamomile -- 0 mins 0.5oz Crystal pellets -- 0 mins YEAST Wyeast 3333 (one quart starter) - -- Marc Sedam Chapel Hill, NC Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 10:09:41 -0500 From: Caryl Hornberger Slone <chornberger10 at comcast.net> Subject: Kegging Newbie Ok, so I like everyone else, hate to bottle. Especially, when its 10 or more gallons. So I'm considering buying a cornelius kegging system. The catch-22 is that I don't drink a lot of beer and I like variety in what I do drink. Is it possible to bottle and keg each batch. Maybe I cold just start making 6 gallon batches: keg 5 and bottle 1. I'd add sugar to prime the whole batch. Anyone problems with priming in kegs? Are they hard to clean/santitize? But this still leaves the question, how long will a kegged beer last after being tapped? Since it's filled with CO2, it should be a while. Lets say I have a couple of kegs and I want to drink a glass or two from a different keg each night. Is there any problem with tapping and untapping(?) a keg over and over? I wouldn't refrigerate the kegs since I don't have fridge room, I'll probably make some sort of chiller to pump the beer through, unless the additional length will create foam. If anyone knows of a good FAQ for kegging that would answer all my questions, please point me that way. Thanks in advance for any info. Caryl Hornberger Slone Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:17:24 -0400 From: "John Misrahi" <lmoukhin at sprint.ca> Subject: infection problem Hi all, After reading the recent thread, I am inclined to believe my once sterile wort has developed a yeast infection! I brewed it up as usual, cooled it, and poured it into a nice clean plastic bucket with a lid for safe keeping. But 3 days later, i peeked inside and it has this weird foamy substance on top. It is making all sorts of aromas, as well as a fizzing bubbling sound, and , worst of all, upon tasting a sample, it tasted alcoholic! Do I have a yeast infection? I'd hate to think all that nice wort will go to waste. ;-p John Misrahi being a smartass in Montreal, Canada [892, 63] Apparent Rennerian (km) "Actually John it uses a very complex algorithm to determine your average time between "Generate" clicks, and from that can it figures out how drunk you are, and what styles of beer you prefer. Obviously, you prefer obscure Belgians!" - Drew Avis Seen on a tee shirt - "The internet is full. Go away!" Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 10:57:20 -0600 From: Stan Burnett <stanb at xmission.com> Subject: Re: coals to Newcastle Dave Burley wrote: > Stan is doing the brewing equivalent of "carrying coals to Newcastle" by > homebrewing in the Czech republic. Try finding a decent ale! ;-) Stan Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 13:01:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Jesse Stricker <jds19 at duke.edu> Subject: Dr. Pivo's thing :) On Fri, 25 Apr 2003, Dr. Pivo sez: > I would also note that his "imbibing, through the digestive tract, and > then innocluating the vagina" theory, is not supported by the evidence > he sites.... brewery and bakery workers. These people aren't eating and > drinking the stuff, they're "bathing" in it ..... and may not wash their > hands before every visit to the toilet...... of course I ALWAYS do.... > I've never really understood the rational behind washing "afterwards". > My hands are continually exposed to all kinds of grotty things from old > timber to garden dirt, both before and after urination..... I'm trying > to keep the OTHER thing clean. Let's get our priorities right! Um, dude, if you're built like the rest of us, your "OTHER thing" is already crawling with coliform bacteria from your gut. A bit of imagination should reveal how they got there. You really should wash your hands after using the toilet. A quick experiment with growth media and, well, your thing, should demonstrate this nicely. A triangle test will most likely be unnecessary. Sorry to break it to you. Obligatory Beer Post: I'm looking at a job at Dartmouth, in Hanover NH. Any good beer stores or brewpubs? Is there a local homebrew store? How about a homebrew club? Do people brew all winter? I'm living in the South right now, so the concept of "winter" is still a little bit odd. Jesse - -- Jesse Stricker jds19 at acpub.duke.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 11:27:58 -0700 From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro at hotmail.com> Subject: RE: more on fuel alcohol Yes, it's off topic, but not as gross as that other OT thread! "-S" comments on fuel alcohol "It costs some 35 to 45 kBTUs of heat energy to distill & process 1 gallon of ethanol in a large scale very efficient operation. The 1 gal of EtOH has about 84kBTU of energy. Simple stills probably cost quite a bit more than the 84kBTUs to produce a gallon." I suppose that depends on the cost and source of the energy. I don't pay the same for all my energy. If I can convert a certain number of kBTUs from a cheap source to a smaller number of kBTUs of another form to replace a more expensive source, it sounds like a good deal to me. -S also says: "Even commercial efficient plants are marginal when you add all the energy costs including the whopping big energy cost of nitrogen fertilizer to grow corn." Well, your basic wastewater treatment plant generates a lot of nitrogen rich fertilizer, that can't be used for food crops, but has to go somewhere. It's a major problem for an activated sludge plant. But it would be fine for fuel based crops. Lompoc WWTP uses their sludge to fertilize corn for cattle feed at the local prison. You should see the size of those babies (the corn, not the sludge piles--I don't want to get gross!). -S concludes: "So ADM is basically converting fossil fuels into ethanol at very modest energy gain and a significant added cost to the environment. The most optimistic estimates are that 24% of the fuel ethanol energy is gained, the most pessimistic estimates indicate that it's an energy loser." Possibly. There's a lot to consider. It's hard to burn coal in your car. But you can make methane, methanol, hydrogen, or whatever, and use that instead. It's all about converting energy from one form to another. On a commercial scale, ethanol production for fueling cars might not be economical, but that's because petroleum is still pretty cheap. As an oxygenator for gasoline, it works pretty well. And it's easier to make a clean burning industrial facility than it is to clean up the fleet of cars that would use it's product. As a brewer, and on a small scale, I still say it's an interesting topic. If I lived in the boonies, and had a cheap source of burnable energy (ie: crop residue, wood chips, Budweiser six-pack cartons), I'd probably be doing it. It *has* been done successfully, and commercially, under the right circumstances. I saw an example in 1978. Yes, I'm sure that overall the energy balance was negative, but they got the bulk of the energy for free--sunlight to grow the cane. Regards, Mike Sharp Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 12:36:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Leo Vitt <leo_vitt at yahoo.com> Subject: Astringency Brian says he is tired of making astringent beers and has addressed sanitiation. I think the most frequent cause of astringency is extracting tanins from grain. I had problems with astringency for my first several all grain batches. PH of the mash, PH of sparge water temp of mash and sparge water and the amount of sparging, all can play a role. I base my targets for PH on Dave Miller's books. Mash PH I can get to 5.2-5.4. Sparge PH about 5.8. I accomplish this by adding acid. Food grade latic acid can be found in most homebrew supply stores. I prefer food grade phospheric acid. It doesn't take as much. If you overdo it on latic acid, you can end up tasting it in the beer. Temp -- Down go over 170F. Mash, usually is below this. But sparge water I put right on 170F. Yes, decoction is another story. Length of sparge: Don't over sparge. It's not the length of time that is the question. As you go on sparging, the wort extracted gets thinner and thinner. You can measure the specific gravity to see this. When it hits 1.010, stop collecting wort. Actually, I usualy run out of sparge water before I reach that. I limit the sparge water to 5 gallons for a 5 gal batch. Consider no sparge. Expecially on a partial mash, you are not wasting that much by leaving some of your potential extract in the grain. You need to seperate the liquid after the mash is completed from the grain. That sounds a lot like the old steep the grain in a bag and remove it before adding malt extract. ===== Leo Vitt Sidney, NE Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 12:51:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Leo Vitt <leo_vitt at yahoo.com> Subject: screw top bottles Ryan asked about using twist off IBC root beer bottles. I have seen a few screw top bottles used in homebrewing. I think the brewer just missed the fact that it was a screw top. Those particular beers sealed up fine, and carbonated. Some of them were entered in competitions I was judging. I made a note that the bottle was a screw top and left it at that. I think the seal might not be as reliable with the cappers hombrewers use. I have also used caps that say "twist to open". But since they were put onto non-twist-off bottles, they don't twist off. Yet, someone would try to twist them off. Even twist off commercial beers are easier to open with a bottle opener. ===== Leo Vitt Sidney, NE Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 16:29:51 -0500 From: "Val J. Lipscomb" <vlipscomb at satx.rr.com> Subject: A Couple of Questions First,thanks for the Tap-a-Draft bottle replies. Seems the consensus is to use a 3 liter soft drink bottle and 1 live cartridge with an empty one in the other holder. Anything is preferable to the flimsy 6 liter bottles. Question 1-What is the best size and length of copper tubing to use in a HERMS? Question 2-Can a HERMS be used,efficiently,for multiple step mashes by using the temp control on the heat ex-changer and recirculating constantly? I will post the consensus on these for the lurkers,like me,who prefer to hide in the weeds. Val Lipscomb Brewing in San Antonio Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 03:45:54 +0000 From: "na br" <na_br at hotmail.com> Subject: Website for Draft System Balancing? I once had a cool link to a calculator that showed beer line length needed to balance a draft system based on height to tap, P.S.I., etc. Has anyone come across this site and if so could you post the URL? Thanks, Nate in sunny S.V. AZ. Return to table of contents
[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]
HTML-ized on 04/26/03, by HBD2HTML v1.2 by KFL
webmaster at hbd.org, KFL, 10/9/96