HOMEBREW Digest #4249 Mon 19 May 2003

[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]

		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


          Northern  Brewer, Ltd. Home Brew Supplies
        http://www.northernbrewer.com  1-800-681-2739

    Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

  Oak Barrel Aged Beer ("Garry Wallace")
  Sugars and Honey info (John Palmer)
  Harsh Beer - hard and soft water (Karen S Dohm)
  Re: Briess Malt (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Conditioning in corny without priming (Jeff Renner)
  Kings of BigBrew ("Steve Jones")
  Belgian Saison Yeast 565 ("morgan")
  Briess Malt and Extraction ("Dan Listermann")
  Fat Tire adjustment (Chris Colby)
  Cascade, Mead ("Dave Burley")
  Balanced taste, beer joke ("Dave Burley")
  carbonating in cornies (David Passaretti)
  Brettanomyces, Dekkera, and peppers! ;-) (Bob Devine)
  Fw: On chili, beer, and aesthetics ("Chad Stevens")
  Enzymic extraction of bound phenolics in barley (Katherine Faleka)
  Cascades & Pepper beers ("Mark Tumarkin")

* * Show your HBD pride! Wear an HBD Badge! * http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/shopping * * The HBD Logo Store is now open! * http://www.cafeshops.com/hbdstore * * Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! * Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!! To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!** IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address for the automation - that's your job. HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org. The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit. More information is available by sending the word "info" to req at hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org. JANITOR on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 15:53:12 +1000 From: "Garry Wallace" <garrywallace at netc.net.au> Subject: Oak Barrel Aged Beer Dear Janitor, At the recent Australian International Beer Awards a highly credentialed New Zealand brewer mentioned that a future pathway for brewing experimentation would be to age beer in old oak wine casks. He advocated a quick clean out with water and a sterilization with a bottle of brandy. Then in goes your beer. The potential results could be delicious but the process sounds iffy. Given that the brewing revolution seems to be years ahead in North America and Europe, could anyone from there give me (in the Land Down Under) some advice or anecdotes on this idea? Yours, Garry Wallace garrywallace at netc.net.au Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 23:23:41 -0700 From: John Palmer <jjpalmer at altrionet.com> Subject: Sugars and Honey info Hi Group, Well, I have been surfing the web looking for information on the differences between different sugars and what sugars are in honey, and I struck the jackpot. http://www.nhb.org/foodtech/ This is part of the National Honey Board's website, and there is a nice pdf article on the use of honey in homebrewing there. http://www.nhb.org/download/factsht/home_brew.pdf Meanwhile, here is what I was tracking down about sugars: 1. Glucose and Dextrose are the same monosaccharide, they are just mirror twins of each other structurally. 2. Fructose is a monosaccharide very similar to glucose except that it has a ketone rather than an aldehyde carbonyl group. (I plan to mention this at dinner tomorrow night to impress the wife and kids) ;-) 3. Fructose is sweeter tasting than sucrose, which is sweeter than glucose, which is sweeter than maltose. 4. Invert (Candy) sugar is a 50:50 mixture of fructose and glucose. This differs from sucrose (glucose attached to a fructose) (a disaccharide) by not being chemcially bonded, and therefore the free fructose makes the mixture taste sweeter than sucrose. 5. Honey is a mixture of sugars (like wort) that is approximately 83% sugar by weight and 17% water. Or to put that another way, about 38 PPG. BUT! that water content can vary by brand, region, etc., and the proportion of sugars (and therefore fermentability) will vary with the flowers that it came from. Bee that as it may, Honey tends to have a fructose to glucose ratio of 1.23 (range .76-1.86), which is why it generally tastes sweeter than sugar. Good Brewing, John John Palmer john at howtobrew.com www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer www.howtobrew.com - the free online book of homebrewing PS. Apple's new music service via iTunes ROCKS! Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 08:53:48 -0700 From: Karen S Dohm <dohmfamily at juno.com> Subject: Harsh Beer - hard and soft water Marc Sedam brought up a point that got me thinking about Michael's problem. I'm a plumber and typically when we pipe a house the correct way is to pipe the outside hose bibs off of the hard water, before the water softener. You do not want your soft water being used to water the lawn or other outside uses, which would cause your water softener to recharge more often. Also in some instances, hard water is piped to the cold water faucet on the kitchen sink for drinking and cooking purposes. This does not necessary mean you have hard water at your outside hose bibs or kitchen sink. Some plumbers and people remodeling their plumbing might find it easier to pipe a softener in and not re-pipe the hose bibs to the hard water supply. So my advise would be, to follow the cold water pipe back to its supply point to see if it is before the water softener which would be hard water, or if it connects after the water softener, which means it would be soft water. If you are not able to follow the pipes back , an easy test for soft water is it should lather quickly with the use of a bar of hand soap. Just because you have a water softener doesn't mean all supply points are softened. Steven Dohm Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 10:15:55 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net> Subject: Re: Briess Malt "Dennis Collins" <dcollins at drain-all.com> reports from Knoxville, TN >I've noticed on my last two bags (50 lb) of Briess 2-row malt that my >extraction was way down, like 8 - 10%. I have read similar reports (though perhaps not quite as much decrease) on the AoB's Brewers' Forum for micro- and brewpub brewers (which I read as part of being on the AHA board). It seems to be a result of the poor North American barley harvest this year, and it isn't just Briess. I think you have to just brew with extra malt until next year. Why don't you check with Briess http://www.briessmalting.com/ to see what they have to say and report back? Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 10:53:35 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net> Subject: Re: Conditioning in corny without priming Neil Spake <neils at texas.net> writes from Austin, Texas (where there are now 51 more democrats than there were all this past week) >Anyone have any experience with a method suggested by Dave Miller in his >classic homebrewing book in which conditioning and carbonation is conducted in >a corny keg without priming? I don't know just what Miller recommends, but if you mean sealing the keg while there is just a bit of remaining fermentable extract, that's my SOP, as I have posted here occasionally before. My last two Classic American Pilsners (CAP) worked perfectly this way. When the fermentation had just about stopped and the beer was no longer murky with yeast but just hazy, I racked to the keg and sealed. I dropped the temperature from 50F fermentation temperature to 32F lagering temp over a week or so, then lagered four more weeks. By happy chance (or just pure skill), when I tapped each, the carbonation was perfect. I do this with ales as well (with different temperatures, of course), and it usually requires only a bit of adjustment, either by adding some additional gas or, less often, releasing excess gas. Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 11:26:26 -0400 From: "Steve Jones" <stjones1 at chartertn.net> Subject: Kings of BigBrew Big Brew site results are posted on the AHA site. I've replicated them on our site, ranked by quantity brewed, along with many pictures from our Big Brew gathering. See http://hbd.org/franklin/public_html/bb.html. Congrats to the Great Northern Brewers in Alaska for the largest amount brewed during Big Brew, with 282.5 gallons. But I want you all to notice that 3 of the top 5 sites were from Tennessee. Memphis and Nashville beat us out, but our gathering back in the hills of Unicoi County (population 17,740) ranked 5th in the world with 138 gallons!! Steve Jones, Johnson City, TN State of Franklin Homebrewers http://hbd.org/franklin [421.8 mi, 168.5 deg] Apparent Rennerian "Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are dumber." - Plato Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 10:36:35 -0400 From: "morgan" <morgan at clis.com> Subject: Belgian Saison Yeast 565 Hi Everyone, Long time reader...first time poster.... My question is about White Lab Yeast 565- Belgian Saison... This is the first time I've used this yeast so I'm not familiar with it... I pitched the yeast into the primary and it started in about 8-10 hours, it fermented for two weeks (temp range 69-72F), and then looked like it had stopped so I racked it into the secondary to get it off the yeast cake and dry hopped with 1/2 oz of hops... that was two weeks ago and it is still fermenting in the secondary..(temp 69-72)...not violently but if you look at the carboy you can see the action inside... Is this normal for this yeast to ferment this long and how long can I expect it to ferment? I've never had one go this long.... TIA Dick Weiss - --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Cape Lookout Mail Server] Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 12:49:42 -0400 From: "Dan Listermann" <dan at listermann.com> Subject: Briess Malt and Extraction "Dennis Collins" <dcollins at drain-all.com> notices that his recent experiences with Briess malt have caused reductions in extraction. We need to remember that barley is a product of nature and is subject to all sorts of variations in size and composition resulting from geography and weather among other things. Very likely his recent bags are from a different, more recent, crop. The number one determinate of extraction in brewing is crush. All the other things maybe fun to talk about, but if you have an insufficient crush, you are going to get poor extraction. The gap on his mill may be just fine for the English malts and the earlier Briess malts, but it may be too wide for the current crop. It should be a simple matter of closing the gap a bit, or if unadjustable or a pain to adjust, a second pass should do the trick. I like to adjust the gap to the point that it is difficult to easily find what appears to be intact corns and those that I do find look underdeveloped. Someone on the RCB said,"Crush it until you get scared." I like that. "In theory, theory and practice are the same, but not in practice". I like this too. Dan Listermann Check out our E-tail site at www.listermann.com Free shipping for orders greater than $35 and East of the Mighty Miss. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 13:28:05 -0500 From: Chris Colby <colbybrewery at austin.rr.com> Subject: Fat Tire adjustment Jason Woolvine posted: > The BYO recipe archives have a recipe for Fat Tire. I > haven't tried it so I can't comment on the recipe but > here's the link: > http://www.byo.com/recipe/685.html > Jason If you try this recipe, cut back on the chocolate malt. Use 3-4 oz. rather than the 0.5 pound listed. Chris Colby Bastrop, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 14:33:01 -0400 From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net> Subject: Cascade, Mead Brewsters: I stayed away from Cascades for many decades but on making an historical rice adjunct based lager beer for friends and including Cascades for bittering and such with an added Saaz nose I grew to like them in this style. I have since tried them alone and l also like them this way. - ---------------- Mark has a mead which he started at 1.116 and finished at 1.088 after several repitchings and wants some advice on how to boost the alcohol content. Try the Pearson Square method using the calculated alcohol content for your mead, its volume, the alcohol content of the vodka.. This ratio will give you the calculated volume to be added almost correctly. Alcohol and water mix so completely that the mixture is less than the sum of the two components. It's not much in this case so go ahead. In the future or even on this one, try adjusting the pH higher with calcium carbonate and repitching yeast with a nutrient. Problem with meads is that they have no inherent nutritional content to amount to much and more importantly no buffering system As the fermentation proceeds the pH drops outside the range where any yeast enzyme can support the fermentation. Meads without fruit to buffer them for this reason are slow to ferment and really never finish. Next time add a yeast nutrient and monitor the pH and keep it in the 4s with calcium carbonate. Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 15:20:24 -0400 From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net> Subject: Balanced taste, beer joke Brewsters: To think all this discussion started with chili beer. My opinion: good Indian food ( which varies widely from top to bottom of India) is often spicy but balanced, as is Thai food. You won't get either in the US very often or even on the street in the home country but in the finest reastaurants it does exist. The absolute best Indian food I ever had was not in India, but in Manchester England. Hot, but spicily delicious with many flavor layers. Some years ago I took some Thai visitors to a new Thai restaurant in NYC. Advising them, that the food would likely be less spicy than they were used to, I encouraged them to tell the cook how they liked their food. He came out and they did so. I ate alongside them. After a lip numbing meal, I inquired how they liked it. The comment "Too hot!" Likewise, good chili beer isn't a light lager with some chili added. Try a beer along the lines of a Negro Modelo ( to stay in the Austro-Mexican theme) or even darker mashed at 158 F and the chili balances the sweetness and vice versa. Very Nice! - ------------------------ A small boy was lost in a shopping mall and approached a policemen and said "I lost my Dad" The policeman smiled, bent over and said "And what's your daddy like?" And the boy said: "Beer and women with big T*ts" Keep on Brewin', Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 12:30:55 -0700 (PDT) From: David Passaretti <dpassaretti at yahoo.com> Subject: carbonating in cornies Neil, I do it all the time and it is very easy. Simply watch your fermentation and when it is near its limit rack it to cornie kegs. For a batch I expect to hit 1.012 I will rack at about 1.014. Let the beer sit at the same temp for a few days and it will carbonate naturally as the yeast ferment the last bit of sugar. The downside is that you will end up with more yeast sediemnt in your cornie but with the appropriate yeast strain this is usually not a problem. The other word of caution is that it is very dangerous to allow fermentation to occurr in a sealed vessel, eg a corny keg. I would either use a pressure gauge attached to a gas QD to monitor the inside pressure and relieve as needed via the safety valve or, even better, use an adjustable pressure relief valve (available at BBMB)and set to the desired pressure. This is safe and does not require any monitoring, just set and forget. I have actually switched to fermenting in a sanke with a corny top welded on. Near the end of fermentation I simply put on the relief valve and set to about 15-20psi and the beer will carbonate to the desired level. This allows me to transfer the beer with less sediment. Good Luck David Passaretti Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 14:31:40 -0600 From: Bob Devine <bob.devine at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Brettanomyces, Dekkera, and peppers! ;-) Chad Stevens asks: > It is my understanding that in 1996 the genus Brettanomyces was replaced by > Dekkera: > > Brettanomyces abstinens is now Dekkera bruxellensis > "" anomalus "" anomala > "" bruxellensis "" bruxellensis > "" claussenii "" anomala > "" custerianus "" custeriana > "" custersii ? > "" intermedius ? > "" lambicus "" bruxellensis > "" naardenensis "" naardenensis > > Can anyone confirm the genus Brettanomyces no longer exists? Any > additional info? Most of the literature I've seen (not extensive by any stretch) uses Dekkera as the name with Brettanomyces as a synonym. For example, what was "Brettanomyces bruxellensis" is now most commonly called "Dekkera bruxellensis". But some papers try to avoid confusion by referring to this as "Dekkera/Brettanomyces" or vice versa. One source says that Dekkera is a version of Brett that can make spores. Anybody with more info? Some references of current naming: http://www.ncl-india.org/ncim/NCIM05-Yeast.PDF http://wdcm.nig.ac.jp/catalogue/ncim/document/Ncim_yeast1.pdf. Most wine makers regard D/B as a spoiler that can be very difficult to control in the winery. It may even use some of the medium chain sugars from new oak barrels themselves and can destroy the subtle varietal notes. Wine makers have collected 50-80 variations of D/B in an effort to study and control unwanted infections. Yet it can provide an interesting characteristic. Some red wines when aged in barrels get an interesting dimension with a small amount. Of course, too much is, well, too much. So, I understand the point that Steve Alexander is making about unbalanced or infantile foods. But I can appreciate a chile beer when expertly made. Bob Devine (still not illegally brewing in Utah, nope, not me) Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 14:59:01 -0700 From: "Chad Stevens" <zuvaruvi at cox.net> Subject: Fw: On chili, beer, and aesthetics Tisk tisk Steven. You mean to tell me you've never sat down and enjoyed MickyD's salty catsup juxtaposed by the exquisite sourness of their pickle in a fresh, plain Quarter Pounder? Granted, it's absurd, but I just love that particular flavor combination. My mouth is watering just thinking of this beautifully crafted, well balanced work of art. As for chili in beer, it sucks. And how do I know it sucks, because I say so. It is an entirely subjective assertion just as valid as "I like chili beer because it's jazzy." There is nothing more to be said. He likes it because he likes it. To apply empiricism or reason or logic muddies the waters. If someone likes the stuff, more power to 'em. To argue otherwise is futile. And that is the beauty of aesthetics. Some people like circles, some like squares, and some dig squiggly lines. You and I can stack up our reasons/observations/experience/data... on one side and the chili lovers can do the same on their side. But in the end, none of it matters because beauty is in the eye of the beholder. May the force be with you! Chad Stevens --------------------------------- "Now it is beyond my power to call them back. They were nothing but the outcome of youthful bravado. At that age the mind refuses to admit that its greatest cause for pride is in its power to understand, to accept, to respect; and that modesty is the best means of enlarging its domain. To admire and praise becomes a sign of weakness or surrender, and the desire to cry down and hurt and demolish with argument gives rise to a kind of intellectual fireworks. These attempts of mine to establish my superiority by revilement might have amused me today, had not their want of straightforwardness and common courtesy been too painful." Rabindranath Tagore Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 20:27:55 +0100 From: Katherine Faleka <a.faleka at reading.ac.uk> Subject: Enzymic extraction of bound phenolics in barley Dear All, I am a student doing a research in bound phenolics of barley and if anyone has any information on enzyme preparations that could be used in order to extract the bound phenolics, I would be eternally grateful if he/she would post them or e-mail me in private. Whatever you come up with, even links to sites you consider woulp help me out, will be highly appreciated! Thank you in advance Katherine Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 20:43:25 -0400 From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com> Subject: Cascades & Pepper beers The recent discussions on Cascades & chilis seem to have a unifying theme - taste is a personal matter. If you like it; put it in your beer. If you don't...well, then don't. We're no longer constrained by Reinheitsgebot. Many homebrewers don't even adhere to Swineheitsgebot - basically, don't put anything in your beer that a pig wouldn't eat. I'm not sure about the Cascades, but a pig would certainly chow down on a hot chili. With regard to Cascades, the perception of at least some Aussie homebrewers that American homebrewers don't like Cascades has been shown to be untrue. Cascades is a signature hop in APA and other American styles. It drove the microbrew explosion (or at least it was along for the ride) on the pro side and homebrewers have and do use it extensively. Many of us go through a phase of pushing the envelope to see how hoppy we can get our brews. I certainly did ... though I left Miami years ago; homebrewing friends down there still ask me about a particular hoppy porter that I called Scorned Lover, a Dark and Bitter Brew. Cascades by the handful can be wonderful...... or it can result in the dreaded grapefruit beer. As has been noted repeatedly, balance is key. And most of us pass through the phase of hopping the bejesus out of everything. Though for some it's a permanent affliction, and for others it's the Holy Grail (can you say Hop God?). Personally, I love big aggressive hoppage, but balance & complexity have be come to be more important than huge IBU's. Still, a big, aggressively hopped beer with the malt to support it is a treat. And though I still like & use Cascades, I much prefer Centennial (Larry Bell's Two Hearted Ale is a favorite). I had a truly wonderful Am pale this weekend, Tan Line by Orlando Brewing Partners (a new FL microbrewer) that used all five American 'C' hops with great success.... complexity & balance rule. On hot peppers, I'm certainly a chili-head, but I've never personally cared for pepper beers (as a general rule). I like hot, spicy food but I want to accompany it with a cool refreshing beer. Not one that's as spicy as the food itself. Generally, hot pepper beer is not a combination I like.... though there are some excellent pepper beers that come to mind. One commercial example is Rogue's Mexacali Rogue. Not a majorly hot chili beer, it has great pepper flavor & moderate warmth ...... and achieves a nice balance. A homebrewed example that comes to mind is Jeff Gladish's Poblano Wit. Obviously most of you haven't had the opportunity to try Jeff's beer, but it's done extremely well in competition and I find it to be a very interesting combination of flavors and also to have excellent balance. This one also has only moderate heat. But that's my taste.... you may love really hot, spicy chili beers. Since the hops discussion began with Am Cascades and Australian POR, perhaps we could be guided by the marketing slogan of that American 'Aussie' restaurant chain, the Outback..... No Rules, Just Right. There's no rules here. If it's right to you, then do it. It may suit your taste, it certainly won't suit everyone's. Putting flavors together creatively in unusual combinations doesn't always work, in beer or in cooking. But then again you may come up with something that you love (even if no one else does). Mark Tumarkin Hogtown Brewers Gainesville, FL Return to table of contents
[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]
HTML-ized on 05/19/03, by HBD2HTML v1.2 by KFL
webmaster at hbd.org, KFL, 10/9/96