HOMEBREW Digest #4300 Fri 18 July 2003

[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]

		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


          Northern  Brewer, Ltd. Home Brew Supplies
        http://www.northernbrewer.com  1-800-681-2739

    Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

  re: Keg Cleaning ("Mark Tumarkin")
  Keg cleaning (Jeremy Bergsman)
  Re: Hoegaarden wit and extract brewing (Michael Hartsock)
  Dublin ("John O'Connell at Work")
  RE: wits and wheats (Brian Lundeen)
  Belgian Wit Recommendations (MOREY Dan)
  re: Scotland and Ireland ("-S")
  Alcohol in the diet Q:How much is safe ? ("-S")
  Munich yeast strains ("Hal Tanrahan")
  Amusing tale and fruit brix (Eric)
  Re: unmalted wheat (Jeffrey Renner)
  A CAP question... ("Troy A. Wilson")

* * Show your HBD pride! Wear an HBD Badge! * http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/shopping * * The HBD Logo Store is now open! * http://www.hbd.org/store.html * * Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! * Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!! To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!** IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address for the automation - that's your job. HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org. The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit. More information is available by sending the word "info" to req at hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org. JANITOR on duty: Pat Babcock and Karl Lutzen (janitor@hbd.org)
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 06:41:03 -0400 From: "Mark Tumarkin" <mark_t at ix.netcom.com> Subject: re: Keg Cleaning I don't have a specific routine for cleaning my kegs. It varies depending on their condition when emptied (depending on what's been in them, grunge level, time sitting, etc). In fact, if I've got something else ready to keg & a just emptied keg, on occasion I've just given the keg a quick iodophor rinse & refilled. Like several of the posters; I usually use pbw, followed by iodophor or star san (no rinse is a wondrous thing!), transferring from one keg to the next to make sure dip tubes & poppets are cleaned. Only very occasionally will I disassemble the entire keg & soak all parts in pbw. A word of caution; if you do disassemble completely, all poppets are not created equal. There are a number of different types. Be sure to keep all the little dohickees with their original kegs. Otherwise leaks are likely. And for the outsides of the kegs, a green scrungie & Bar Keepers Friend do wonders to make 'em nice & shiny. Mark Tumarkin Hogtown Brewers Gainesville, FL Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 07:58:23 -0400 From: Jeremy Bergsman <jeremy at bergsman.org> Subject: Keg cleaning The keg cleaning thread is very timely for me as I have just been jumping back into brewing after a long hiatus and wanted to clean my kegs, some of which have been sitting uncleaned for quite some time. I decided to do as thorough a cleaning as I could, so I did something I've never done before, and I haven't seen it mentioned in anyone's protocol yet: I disassembled the quick connects (I use ball-locks). These turn out to be easy to take apart, and surprised me by having some nooks and crannies inside that can accumulate grunge. The only tricky thing is that one has to be very careful in reassembly, it is easy to damage the tender o-ring inside if it slips out of position. I think it is important not to over tighten it. Does anyone take these apart? If not, why not? And, where is a good source for these o-rings? - -- Jeremy Bergsman jeremy at bergsman.org http://www.bergsman.org/jeremy Woodbridge, CT Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 06:21:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Hartsock <xd_haze at yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Hoegaarden wit and extract brewing Hate to be a downer, but the nature of a wit (being 50% unmalted wheat) makes it impossible to recreate in an extract beer. You might use wheat malt extract and some seville orange peel and corriander, I don't know how much different the flavor profile would be. However, I was once told that if you want to simulate the cloudy, "white" look of a wit, you can toss a few tbsp of wheat flower in the boil with 15 or 20 minutes left. I don't know if it is a good idea or not. Michael Columbia, MO ===== "May those who love us, love us. And those that don't love us, May God turn their hearts. And if he doesn't turn their hearts, may he turn their ankles So we'll know them by their limping." Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:28:33 -0400 From: "John O'Connell at Work" <oconn at mindspring.com> Subject: Dublin To all, Any beer-lover needs to do the following in Dublin: Visit the Porter House Brewing Company. http://www.theporterhouse.com/ Basically an American-style brewpub, it features three styles of Stout, interesting takes on Continental and American beers, and very good food. I would suggest a lunch there over dinner, if you want to get lots of talk from the servers and appreciate the beers. Located at the far end of the Temple Bar area, it gets to be a bit of a jungle at night. But a fun jungle anyway. Lots of bottle beer selection as well. Beer in Ireland is otherwise overrated (gasp!). Budmilloors has gotten a stranglehold there, too, and it seems sometimes the Guinness/Murphy's/Beamish is kept around for the old folks and the tourists. The small brewers (I visited Biddy Early and Kinsale) are like smaller micros in the US, but since Ireland's got the same population as metro Atlanta, that's not too surprising. Oh, and part of the Wonka factory aspect of the Guinness tour is that the working brewery is part of a conglomerate operation, where the stout is a part of the lager, alcapop, ale and contract brewing business. Too much potential for awkward questions and image-destroying reality out there. But oh the smell! Yum! John O. Atlanta, GA. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:41:41 -0500 From: Brian Lundeen <BLundeen at rrc.mb.ca> Subject: RE: wits and wheats Chuck Brandt wants an extract Wit: Anyone have any thoughts on the best fermentation temp/yeast and/or spice combination to recreate this classic in an extract + specialty grain mode? Me: As one of the pros so succinctly put it in the latest Zymurgy, "You can't get there from here". I do not believe extract brewers can make an authentic tasting or looking Wit. This IS an all-grain beer. There I've said it, let the mill dust settle where it may. And if anyone brings up having won a competition with an extract Wit, I shall simply chalk it up to bad judging. ;-) Having said that, Wyeast 3944 or the White Labs equivalent, half an ounce each of bitter orange peel and coriander, added in the last 5-10 minutes, per 5 gallons. This will yield a subtle but noticeable spicing. I've tasted homebrewed Wits with knock you on your ascii spicing levels and while they are interesting for a few sips, I don't think I could drink a pint or two. Of course, everyone's tastes are different and that's what makes this such a great hobby, yada yada yada. Dave Burley writes: Well, all unmalted wheat or barley, independent of the source, is hard ( called "steely ends" for a reason by maltsters sometimes when certain individual grains don't malt properly) and you don't mill it. You must cook it like you would any other unmalted adjunct. That's the secret. This bursts the starch granules so that the enzymes in the mash can get to the starch. You've probably been wasting most of the wheat you've been putting in as milled unmalted and uncooked wheat. Me: Yeah, they tell you (well, you know,.... "They", don't ask for names) that you can toss the milled wheat into the mash and it will gelatinize at mash temps, but I had dreadful efficiency on my first batch when I did this and also got some judging comments that it was lacking in wheat flavour. I suspect as you suggest that my wort was lacking in wheat contribution. Maybe some people can make this work, but everybody's setup is different, and when you get right down to it, isn't that what makes this such a great hobby, yada yada yada? This last time I did boil the wheat, although I did it bass-ackward to your suggestion. I "squished" the wheat, then boiled it. Shoulda used more water though, it glommed up on me pretty good, but I think it all worked out OK in the end. Tasted good at racking, I expect I shall get it kegged up this weekend. Cheers Brian, yada-ing in Winnipeg, where we don't have any mosquitoes this year Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:53:39 -0500 From: MOREY Dan <dan.morey at cnh.com> Subject: Belgian Wit Recommendations Chuck, I presented a lecture on Belgian ales for club BABBLE. The link below is to the paper that accompanied the presentation: http://hbd.org/babble/BelgianAle.htm For an extract based recipe, I would recommend a 50/50 blend of light or pale malt extract and wheat malt extract. If you want to include oats or rye, do a small mash with about a pound of pilsner malt. For yeast, I prefer Wyeast 3944. I don't have temperature control for my fermentation. Most my brewing is in the late fall, winter, and spring. Keeping the carboys on the basement floor results in fermentation temperatures in the low 60's. I consider bitter orange peal and coriander essential. Use about 1/3oz bitter orange peal per 5 gallons. Use about 3/4 oz coriander per five gallons. I have not used sweet orange peel. See the paper for timing recommendations. If you want to use "special" spices, keep the quantities low (usually less than 1/5 oz). As for the hop tables, the percentages shown are IBU fractions. Multiply your final IBU target by the IBU fraction to get the IBU contribution of each addition. Use any IBU formula you like; however, Garetz formula does not apply because the utilization factor is 0 for the entire aroma range using his formula. The following paper has an example of how to use the bittering fractions: http://hbd.org/babble/Hop_Usage.htm Here is my wit recipe that took 2nd place in flight in local competition: http://hbd.org/babble/Recipes/witbeer.htm Hope the information is helpful. Dan Morey Club B.A.B.B.L.E. http://hbd.org/babble [213.1, 271.5] mi Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:55:14 -0400 From: "-S" <-s at adelphia.net> Subject: re: Scotland and Ireland Glenn Ferrell writes ... >We plan to spend most of our honeymoon in Scotland >with four days in Dublin, Ireland. > >In Dublin, I want to take the Guinness tour, sample some of the fresh stuff and >check out a pub or two, [...] Who says romance is dead ? Someone should explain the SWMBO/beer_bullets concept to Glenn before he makes a strategic error. -S Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:33:51 -0400 From: "-S" <-s at adelphia.net> Subject: Alcohol in the diet Q:How much is safe ? Mike Maag has replied to my far too close scrutiny of his personal drinking habits in a very open and civilized way. I want to thank Mike for sharing on this important topic. > I don't recall calling it healthy. I may have over-interpreted your intent Mike. "Beer gut" topic seemed to be about obesity/health rather than the cosmetic benefits of weight loss. >I was simply trying to illustrate beer not > being the cause of weight gain, There is a more direct illustration of your point - most alcoholics die emaciated and malnourished despite vast alcohol calorie consumption. In a normal metabolism, beer calories contribute to weight gain almost exactly as much as any other calories. Total calories are the issue - not beer calories vs other calories. >when a person's diet consists of high fat > foods, and beer. If weight loss is the goal, it makes more sense to me to > reduce consumption of high fat foods, rather than reduce the beer consumption. I don't see the "makes more sense" part. There is nothing special or different about calories from fat or beer vs other foods. I've recently studied the metabolic process from the standpoint of energetics wrt carbos, fiber, protein, fat, ethanol and glycerol. There are a few points of modest inefficiency on the intake side - but there are no gaping loopholes. Food intake calories are practically equal regardless of source ('cept fiber). My point is that Mike's diet as described is clearly unhealthy. The comments about a very high alcohol low fat diet and losing inches of waistline must be completely separated from any consideration of health. Drinking 175gm of alc per day is 3X the level that the UK gov't states is hazardous and above the 80-160gm of chronic intake that several medical texts cite as causing organ damage. Even if we ignore the alcohol damage we are faced with an obviously non-nutritious diet. Mike's diet derives ~1850Cal from beer - primarily ethanol & carbs, with some B vitamins and a dash of protein. We need ~75gm of protein per day as a structural req - so assume you get this primarily from lean meat and fish which will bring the calorie intake from beer & lean meat to 2300Cal. That's already above the average adult male calorie req and there are scads of required vitamins and minerals missing. One can't possibly construct a nutritious diet with 70% of calories from beer. Selecting between reducing consumption of fatty food calories vs beer calories isn't much of a choice when basic nutritional requirements are not yet met. I will agree with Mike on the larger point - it's possible to lose weight by reducing non-beer calories. Reducing any calories from any source will do. The caveat is that a sensible approach must consider overall nutrition and not just calories. > I appreciate your concern Steve. It's sincere Mike. Don't interpret my posts as condemnation of your decision to drink so much. You're obviously an intelligent guy capable of evaluating the rising risk of organ damage and those consequences versus the rewards of that 7th pint of 6.5%abv beer each average day. I don't walk in your shoes, and I'd never presume to tell you how to live. I choose certain risks that you probably wouldn't tolerate too. You've been very generous to discuss this thorny topic at a personal level openly here. ==== May I suggest a different follow-on topic to "how much do you drink ?". How much do *you* consider safe/reasonable as a daily average ? To compare fairly ... . In US measures a pint of beer contains abt 3.8 gram of ethanol per 1% abv. A pint of 5% abv beer has about 19 gm of ethanol. (pints * abv% * 3.8 = ethanol grams). In metric a liter at 1%abv contains abt 8gm of ethanol (liters * abv * 8 = ethanol grams). A half liter of 5% abv about 20 gm. I expect my average is around 48gm/day. I *think* this average is sensible for me (83kg, male) but I really don't know. My variations far above this avg (say >100gm) are no model of healthy drinking - but such excesses are very infrequent. Here are some other suggestions on amounts(as daily grams of EtOH) Australia http://www.adf.org.au/drughit/facts/hdayal.html#stand Female: <20gm LOW, 30-40gm HAZARDOUS, >40gm HARMFUL Male: <40gm LOW, 40-60gm HAZARDOUS, >60gm HARMFUL In the US http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/faq/q-a.htm#question13 A mere 15gm for women and 30 gm for men is the upper "safe level" threshold. In the UK (unit ~= 8gm) http://www.alcoholconcern.org.uk/Information/Factsheets/Factsheet2.htm http://www.csu.nisra.gov.uk/archive/Surveys/CHS/Results/10_Drinking/Level _of_%20alcohol_consumption_by_sex_and_age_Trend.xls http://www.nics.gov.uk/press/dfp/020703n-dfp.htm the "sensible" level is 24gm for men and 16 gm for women - daily average. The "hazardous" level is 57gm for men, 40gm for women. Also ..."The UK Department of Health advises that there are no significant health risks at levels of consumption of between 3 and 4 units [24-32gm] a day or less for men, and for women between 2 and 3 units[16-24gm] a day or less. Consistently drinking more than these levels per day is not advised, and is linked with a progressive increase of risks to health". It's hard for me to accept that 2.5pints of relatively tame beers a day is "hazardous", 'unsafe', 'ill-advised', 'not sensible'. I would also have guessed that 3us.pints(1.4L) of 5%abv was high but OK, but the UK declares this amount(57gm) as the trip point for hazardous drinking for men. I wonder about the factual basis for these statements and levels. So what are some other thoughts on the line between reasonable drinking vs excess ? -S Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:33:31 -0800 From: "Hal Tanrahan" <puffyfiche at fastmail.fm> Subject: Munich yeast strains Does anybody know if the yeast strains used by Spaten or Paulaner in their helles beers have ever been identified. More importantly are any of these strains available from Wyeast or Whitelabs, or another homebrew yeast supplier? I know Whitelabs German Bock yeast is from Ayinger, but I have never seen if the Spaten or Paulaner yeasts have ever been "captured." - -- Hal Tanrahan puffyfiche at fastmail.fm - -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Faster than the air-speed velocity of an unladen european swallow Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 22:12:50 -0400 From: Eric <edahlber at rochester.rr.com> Subject: Amusing tale and fruit brix I just started a new job and thought I'd share an amusing conversation that took place today with some of my new co-workers. We were discussing hobbies so of course my homebrewing came up. Neither of the people had done homebrewing themselves, but both had friends who did. Employee 1: "My friend makes beer with these genetically engineered hops that really increase the alcohol level. He just did a stout that was like 14.9% alcohol because of them." Employee 2: "Yeah hops are great. My friend uses some really great tasting hops called Horse-bucker." The conversation went on to include how employee 1's friend boiled, fermented and carbonated all in the same keg. But they did get one thing right. They agreed that homebrew tastes so much better than most of what you can get at the store! Also in #4299 there was a question about converting pounds of berries to quarts etc. I also had a question concerning fruit, but mine deals with brix and priming. I have come across a sour cherry concentrate that I believe is 65 brix. It is meant to mix with x amount of water to make sour cherry juice. First of all, is brix a measure of sugars? And assuming that it is, could I convert it to numbers that I could use for priming things like a sour brown ale, or plambic? Currently being yelled at for messing up the garbage disposal with a few unseen oak chips, Eric Dahlberg Rochester, NY Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 19:27:21 -0700 From: Jeffrey Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net> Subject: Re: unmalted wheat "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net> writes: >Brian of Winnepeg asks how to use unmalted wheat as he is >having a hard ( so to speak) time milling it. He suspects the >supplier. >Well, all unmalted wheat or barley, independent of the source, is >hard This is not true. Soft wheat is not nearly as hard as hard wheat. (Duh!) And I suspect that it might squish between rollers. It certainly mills much more easily than hard in a Corona mill, and can easily be chewed. Hard wheat feels like it will break your teeth. It may be that Brian's wheat is higher than it should be in moisture. This can be checked by carefully weighing 100 grams, then heating it at, say, 300 F, for some time, say ahlf an hour or more, until it no longer decreases in weight, then weighing it. This should give its moisture content, and a google search should turn up what an acceptable moisture level is. I prefer brewing with soft wheat. It is usually lower in protein and is easier to mill. Greetings from California, where I am wrapping up a two week California trip at [1989, 243] Apparent Rennerian at our daughter and son-in-law's in Ventura. Earlier we were at Big Sur at my sister's (fantastic) and Lemoore, where it was at least nice to see our son and his wife. Not much to be said about the central valley AFAIC. We're meeting John Palmer tomorrow Friday) in LA for a beer after years of email but not meeting. Cheers Jeff Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:41:00 -0500 From: "Troy A. Wilson" <troy at troyandjulia.com> Subject: A CAP question... My brewing buddy and I brewed a CAP a few weeks ago, a 10 gallon batch, and split it up between us for fermenting and lagering. Neither of us has racked it from the primary yet. In my portion, the fermentation just What kind of aroma and taste should we be experiencing at this stage? Neither of us has ever done a lager, let alone a CAP, Tom is experiencing an off flavour that he likens to a bandaid and I detect a flavour that is different than what I am used to, but I don't detect and chemical or medicinal flavour. Any help is greatly appreciated. BTW, I am racking to a carboy to finish lagering even as I type. Troy A. Wilson troy at troyandjulia.com [254.2, 205.7] Apparent Rennerian - Seymour, IN - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.500 / Virus Database: 298 - Release Date: 7/10/2003 Return to table of contents
[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]
HTML-ized on 07/18/03, by HBD2HTML v1.2 by KFL
webmaster at hbd.org, KFL, 10/9/96