HOMEBREW Digest #4307 Sat 26 July 2003

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  Malt Nasty (tolmh)
  re: kids and beer ("James Fitzell")
  sweden/stockholm ("Haborak, Kevin")
  State Run Liquor/Colour Software/Taxation & S.G. (Travis Dahl KE4VYZ)
  No Spam and beer colture (Jim Bermingham)
  Re: Kids and beer (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Counterflow Chilling and Break (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Anheuser world select ("Tom & Dana Karnowski")
  Re:  Sweden (Thomas Rohner)
  RE: colour swatches ("Drew Avis")
  the Malt Nazi says No Beer For You, Stuart! ("Steve Dale-Johnson")
  Rodenbach Grand Cru ("Deutsch, Stephen D")
  Fridge repair (BrewInfo)
  Paulaner Brewery (BrewInfo)
  Price of Kegging Equipment ("Chip Stewart")
  Orange County Fair, Belgian Dubbel (Alan Fossen)
  Jamelski beer bottles (ensmingr)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 14:33:45 +1000 From: tolmh at tpg.com.au Subject: Malt Nasty >If any of my fellow Australians took offense to my >comments, for example, I'd be very surprised. "Um, excuse me, I - I think you forgot to crack my malt." "Cracked, two dollars extra." "Two dollars? But everyone in front of me got free cracking." "You want cracked?" "Yes, please." "Three dollars!" "What?" "NO MALT FOR YOU!" Matt in Canberra, Australia Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:58:08 +1000 From: "James Fitzell" <JFitzell at tecbuild.com.au> Subject: re: kids and beer Howdy, First post for me but I thought I'd just second Stuart on his comment about the Australian laws on drinking. Again, these laws vary from state to state, however they are all fairly similar. In New South Wales it is legal for the parent/guardian to serve alcohol on private property. In Victoria it is legal for a child to be served alcohol by any adult (doesn't need to be the parent/guardian) while on private property. On public property it is illegal to give a minor alcohol whether there are adults present or not. (The drinking age here is 18 by the way). Now on to my experiences with alcohol. Both of my parents drink regularly, almost exclusively red wine. From early teens I would often have a glass of wine with dinner and have always had a healthy respect for what alcohol can, and can't, do. That said I still went through a period in late teens where I would drink to excess. The reason for this was nothing to do with whether I understood the risks of alcohol or not, it's simply a matter of "fun"... at the time it was fun, it made me feel good. Now I no longer drink to excess for many reasons. I am more concious of maintaining my health, I no longer like feeling out of control, and I don't like waking up with a hangover. All of these reasons have nothing to do with "understanding alcohol" and everything to do with "growing up". I think it's healthy to let a child grow up understanding about alcohol and its risks and that to pretend alcohol doesn't exist is likely to cause a child undue interest in alcohol, however there's nothing you can do about the fact that teenagers can be stupid. On a separate note, and in Stuart's defense, we in Australia use the word Nazi as a humourous description (just like in Seinfeld). It never occurred to me that people might take offense to his use of the word, I certainly didn't. In hindsight it is obvious that it could have caused offense, however I am sure Stuart never meant it to. And finally, I'm only just getting into homebrewing and as such have no brewery name. But for the other questions over the weeks I am 25 years old and drink roughly 4-5 nights a week. On these occasions I would average 1 - 2 long necks, generally with dinner. Well... what a blurb for my first post :) James Fitzell Sydney, NSW, Australia Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 05:00:21 -0700 From: "Haborak, Kevin" <KHaborak at golder.com> Subject: sweden/stockholm My experiences over in Stockholm are more along the lines of Pete's. Only I went there when in college so I was hagning out with the people stocking up on alcohol. When I first got over there many of the girls I met warned me not to try to keep up with my Swedish counterparts becasue "Swedish guys are known for getting so drunk they fall on their face". I did take razzing from some of the guys over being a "party-breaker" when I wasn't getting as hammered as them, but it always semmed to work out better with the ladies (although that's a topic for another board). So I guess what I'm saying is that I don't think the 'european' attitude makes it that far north. Kevin Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 08:20:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Travis Dahl KE4VYZ <dahlt at umich.edu> Subject: State Run Liquor/Colour Software/Taxation & S.G. I find it interesting that people seem to be claiming that the state run liquor stores in Sweden are unique to the area and a part of the problem. There are actually several states where any hard liquor has to be sold through the state run liquor stores (Washington, and New Hampshire come to mind). And the ones in Wshington State practically keep bankers hours. Are their more alcoholics and binge drinkers per capita in Seattle tthan in Portland? On the subject of color software, I think that anyone who believes that it is even meant to give an exact color needs to have their head examined. First off, I know that there is a lot of variation between different computer monitors (my laptop and my desktop monitors display the same image with different hues, etc.) Second, brewing practices (did you scorch anything, etc.) can alter that color somewhat. Personally, I like the color feature in promash because it gives me rough idea of where the colors will end up. Anything beyond that, would probably not be worth it. Someone also mentioned the fact that English bitters are low in gravity because of taxation. This was certainly true initially, but since those taxes went into effect well ove a hundred years ago, I suspect that even if they were removed, the S.G. would not go up significantly. Most traditions had an initial reason, but quite often the tradition will remain even when the cause for it is gone. (One example I often hear sited is the prevalence of coffee drinking in the U.S. vs. tea.) Anyway, thats enough rambling for me today. -Travis [1.8, 98.3] Apparent Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 20:23:07 -0500 From: Jim Bermingham <JBHAM6843 at netscape.net> Subject: No Spam and beer colture Bill No Spam stated in his post that while the French Canadian's lifestyle was to drink wine, usually with food, instead of beer, we Americans, drank beer. Usually by itself, and with the intent to get drunk. I'm not sure where No Spam is from and what studies he has either read or undertaken himself on this subject but I have to strongly disagree with him on this. Although I'm from Texas I have been forced to leave this great state a time or two and have been in quite a few bars here in the U.S. and elsewhere, including Canada. In the larger cities in Texas they have bars. These bars are normally located in restaurants or dance halls. While there are always those who drink to excess and leave these establishments drunk, they certainly are not the majority. In the smaller towns in Texas, where I live, we don't have bars. We have Beer Joints. Now as the name indicates, these fine establishments serve beer, beer and beer. You might be able to get a coke, but you better not ask for a wine or a mixed drink. You ask for a Bud, a Miller or a Coors. in the bigger joints they might even have Lone Star. Also in the bigger places you might be able to get a hamburger, but don't count on it. Even in these places, where I spent my youth, very few people go there to drink to get drunk. As I said I don't know where No Spam is from, if he is a college student, his age, or anything else about him, but the statement about Americans usually drinking beer just to get drunk is , in my opinion wrong, Jim Bermingham Millsap, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 09:40:29 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net> Subject: Re: Kids and beer "David Hagan" <david at falstaffenterprises.com> >As a former publican in the state of Texas I can tell you that here >it is perfectly legal for parents to give their children alcohol. >The bartender or server has to actually serve the drink to the >parent, and the parent has to give the drink to the child. The legal >age to drink in Texas 21. This sensible attitude is true in Wisconsin, I understand (my sister lives there and we visit often). But here in Michigan, it constitutes child abuse, even in your own home, and you could be prosecuted! Fortunately, I think the statute of limitations has expired in my case. Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 10:18:08 -0400 From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net> Subject: Re: Counterflow Chilling and Break "Caryl Hornberger Slone" <chornberger10 at comcast.net> writes from Ft. Wayne, IN >I'm not sure exactly which break I'm talking about; hot or cold - but after >the boil finishes, its all the wispy white suspended proteins (reminds me of >miso soup). That's hot break, and it sounds like you have your mash chemistry going right if you get good like that. Cold break forms when the wort is chilled. >I'm wondering how people who use counterflow chillers remove >this material, since it only seems to really precipitate out as the wort >cools. I have a false bottom in my boiler and use whole hops, which act as a filter for both the hot and cold break. I get pretty clear wort in the fermenter and very little sediment. There are those who claim benefits to leaving cold break in the fermenter, at least for the first 24 hours (nutrients and CO2 nucleation sites), but I haven't had any problems. >I use an immersion chiller (for now) and am able to chill and then siphon >the wort off after all this stuff has settled. A few times, I've been >rather sloppy and gotten a large amount of it into the fermentor. It >settled out, and I just had less beer than usual. Before I had the false bottom, I'd whirlpool the hot wort and use a counter-flow chiller. When the pile of trub in the middle collapsed and started entering the chiller, I'd run the truby wort into a separate container. Then I stretched an old t-shirt over the neck of a one gallon plastic pitcher and filtered this wort. Then I reboiled the filtered wort to sterilize it, cooled it and added it to the fermenter. Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 10:33:49 -0400 From: "Tom & Dana Karnowski" <karnowsk at esper.com> Subject: Re: Anheuser world select Concerning AB World Select, Rodney Reeves asked: >(Finally to the point) >Why would they enter the market so late in the game? AB has over 50% of the American beer market. I think they have little opportunities for growth now without cannabalizing themselves (Mich ultra probably took some drinkers away from bud light, or mich light, for example). The next market they can hit is probably the Heinekin crowd. I believe SABMiller is targeting that same group with more ads for pilsner urquell. What I find more interesting is "Pacific Ridge" (I think?), which is an AB pale ale. I saw it on their web site and it said they only sell it in Western states. Has anyone tried it? >Would you support a company that has little commitment to brewing a >quality product even if they did have one great brew? I would like to try AB World Select but I would not become a regular buyer of it. I don't buy any commercial beers regularly except our local brewpub beers, because I have plenty of homebrew. AB is committed to making money and they are doing it by making beer that people want to drink, or convincing people that they want to drink AB beer. One classic example of this is Mich Ultra. IT has 1.8 carbs. I looked on a can of Miller Lite and yes, it has more carbs. 0.5 g to be precise (it has 2.3 carbs). What a joke. Think of how much money AB has spent on their "low carb" beer. Miller Lite should re-invent themselves as a low-carb beer too. (I haven't tasted the two side-by-side but I truly doubt that Mich Ultra tastes much better than Miller Lite.) I bet if they did that, Mich Ultra would say they have 1/4 less carbs than Miller Lite. If everyone stopped drinking Bud and wanted Sierra Nevada Pale Ale instead, you better believe AB would drop Bud like a hot potato and start making pale ale (and I bet it would be tasty, too). Or selling Pacific Ridge more. REgarding macrobrewing sleaze and BS, I recommend that everyone read "Beer Blast" by Phillip Van Munching. HE isn't a great writer and he is biased (his family imported Heinekin) but its an interesting read about macrobrewing ad tactics. A couple of other interesting books I read in this same vein are "Under the Influence" and "Citizen Coors". The last one is the best written of the group. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 19:05:19 +0200 From: Thomas Rohner <t.rohner at bluewin.ch> Subject: Re: Sweden Hi Pete when i was there in 2001, i found beers up to 3.5 ABV in every supermarket.(maybe that's not the stuff for binge drinking) If you want something stronger you have to go to the "System-Bolaget". I've been there a couple of times(the fridge in the motorhome wasn't that large) during weekdays. It wasn't crammed then. But i heard from my cusine, that i shouldn't go there before weekends or even worse before holydays. Thomas Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:42:26 -0400 From: "Drew Avis" <andrew_avis at hotmail.com> Subject: RE: colour swatches Big Brained Brian in Winnipeg suggests that on-screen colour swatches in brew software are not accurate, and proposes a database of beer photos would be better. This is probably the case, BBB, but it is still not a perfect solution. There are distinct variations between digital cameras in terms of colour quality, differences between monitors and graphics cards - and this is assuming the SRM/EBC prediction for the recipe is close! Remember the prediction is based on a formula which, while serviceable, is certainly not perfect. For example, I've posted here before regarding the Morey formula (used AFAIK in most software) for predicting SRM. This formula does not account for brewhouse efficiency! Plug a recipe into your favourite software, and set the efficiency to 10%. All the specs *except* colour will change, which, as we both know, is ridiculous. You should get much less colour - though how much less I'm not sure. (StrangeBrew has a setting which lets you apply efficiency to your colour prediction, but some brewers have reported problems with it, and I plan to tweak it further in the next release.) But, assuming your SRM is accurate, your digital camera is perfect, and your monitor and graphics card are calibrated to some brew software standard - then your observation that there are many variations in the hue of a beer (two 12 SRM beers might still vary considerably in colour) still holds true. Your algorithm would have to predict which of the dozens or hundreds of 12 SRM photos you have would match the recipe. I'm not saying that this isn't an astoundingly original idea! On the contrary, it is quite breathtaking. I just don't know that it doesn't solve more problems than it creates. When it comes to the colour swatch, I encourage brewers to think of it like the other specifications predicted by their software - a sketch or fuzzy crystal ball picture rather than a "photograph" of what their beer is going to turn out like. Cheers! Drew Avis, Ottawa, Ontario http://www.strangebrew.ca Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 10:59:07 -0700 From: "Steve Dale-Johnson" <sdalejohnson at hotmail.com> Subject: the Malt Nazi says No Beer For You, Stuart! Stuart Grant, the HBD's very own Tasmanian Devil, is deeply sorry to have offended those of us who fancy ourselves Malt Nazis. ("No Beer For You! Out of my brewhouse!!") With all due respect to the late Dr. George Fix, the guy knew his beer and was actually on to something. I have read and reread the Marzen/O'fest book and applied the same principles to brewing other beers, and it really does have an impact. I know that Aussie was founded with a culture that said "Hey, p!ss on Normal", but the beer you get using the local will be the equivalent of the "pilsners" brewed commercially here in Canada. Nice try, but not even close. IIRC, you were asking about an O'fest, which may be less sensitive to malt selection than my favourites, which are a Czech style Pilsener and a Dortmunder/export. There is a big part of both of these beers missing when you try to do them with Canadian, English or American 2 row malts. To a lesser extent, I still have not captured the full essence as I do not (yet) decoct and have been doing simple single infusion mashes. Using a european pils malt in these, however, does make the biggest difference, qualified by the fact that I am already lagering the lagers with the style-appropriate yeast, which is the first big step. If you're not doing that, I personally wouldn't bother with the authentic malt either, and I certainly would not purport to be brewing any authentic style. Don't let that stop you from experimenting with what _you_ like though, b/c that's what makes the hobby so fun. Proud to be a malt nazi, with tongue firmly in cheek, Steve Dale-Johnson Brewing at (1918 miles, 298 degrees) Rennerian Delta (Vancouver), BC, Canada. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:14:02 -0500 From: "Deutsch, Stephen D" <Stephen.Deutsch at landsend.com> Subject: Rodenbach Grand Cru I created a typical Belgian Strong Ale and I dropped a quarter bottle of Rodenbach Grand Cru into it. Two months later I tested it and it's very much like Rodenbach, but more sour and green. I'll let it sit a while longer, taste it again, and maybe add some fruit if it's too sour. Stephen Deutsch, OCP Sr Database Administrator Lands' End, Inc. (608)935-4935 Visit our web site at http://www.landsend.com/ Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:51:49 -0500 (CDT) From: brewinfo at xnet.com (BrewInfo) Subject: Fridge repair One of my beer fridges is on the fritz. I bought it new about 10 years ago, but it's a smaller one than a standard kitchen fridge (about 5 feet tall) and I think I paid something like $175 for it. A week ago or so, I happened to be next to it when I heard it go "click, hum, clack." I looked inside and the frost in the freezer had melted and had made a 1/2" puddle in the bottom of the fridge. I turned the thermostat to "off," cleaned up all the water, and left it for a day. When I turned it back on, it went "click, hum, hum, hum, clack." Tried again the next day. Same. There used to be a refrigeration expert on the HBD... are you still here? What are the chances that repairing this are going to be cheaper than just getting a new (or used) fridge? Buying a used fridge is surely cheaper, but certainly increases the likelyhood that I'll have the same problem as I have now again, and much sooner than I'd like. Right? Thanks. Al. Al Korzonas http://www.brewinfo.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 14:15:52 -0500 (CDT) From: brewinfo at xnet.com (BrewInfo) Subject: Paulaner Brewery S asks about tours at the Paulaner Brewery in Munich. You should pick up a book called "The Camra Guide to Munich and Bavaria." It has all the phone numbers, addresses and a bunch of other great information. Note that when I was there last (1997?) Paulaner not only had their main brewery, but they also had a brewpub (Hausbrauerei). I poked around and found the brewmaster and he gave me a tour. Gleaming equipment. They used (gasp!) open fermenters! However, because the fermenters were in the same room as the serving area, they had a glass box built around them (go figure!). In Belgium, I wouldn't be surprised to see open fermenters at each table ;^). Just kidding. Get the book if it's still in print. Try the CAMRA website www.camra.uk.org. Actually, I just looked briefly and didn't see it. Try to find it used online. Al. Al Korzonas Homer Glen, IL http://www.brewinfo.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 16:18:09 -0400 (EDT) From: "Chip Stewart" <Charles at thestewarts.com> Subject: Price of Kegging Equipment Don't forget e-Bay as a source for equipment. I've seen CO2 tanks go for less than half of what you quoted! I just saw two 2.5 lb. tanks go for $24.99. That's where I've picked up several brewing items, including at $19 Omega digital temperature controller. Chip Stewart Charles at TheStewarts.com http://Charles.TheStewarts.com Support anti-Spam legislation. Join the fight http://www.cauce.org Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 18:11:37 -0700 From: Alan Fossen <brewer at kanpai.net> Subject: Orange County Fair, Belgian Dubbel I did well at the Orange County (CA) fair this year with my Belgium Dubbel so here's the recipe. Dubbel #4 Water: My tap water is quite hard. I use about 1/3 boiled and settled tap water and the rest RO. 7 gal mash-in to get 120f, 14 gal sparge 19 lb. Belgian Pilsner (DWC) 5 lb. German Pilsner 2 lb. Belgian Munich 1 lb. Belgian aromatic 2 lb. Wheat malt 1 lb. Belgian Special B 1 lb. Belgian CaraVienne 1 lb. Belgian CaraMunich 30 min at 120f,60 min at 140f (bad thermometer, I wanted 150) 30 min at 150f, mashout Boil:120 min, yielded 13 gal. Hops: All loose, except Saaz: pellets .5 oz. Cascade (6% AA, 60 min.) .3 oz. Fuggles (4.75% AA, 60 min.) .5 oz. Kent Goldings (5% AA, 60 min.) .5 oz. Hallertauer (1.7% AA, 45 min.) .3 oz. Fuggles (4.75% AA, 30 min.) .5 oz. Kent Goldings (5% AA, 30 min.) .5 oz. Saaz (3.75% AA, 15 min.) White Labs Trappist Ale WLP500 stepped 3 times, 32 oz at 55 points, 50 oz at 60 points and 45 at 70 points. Primary fermentation temperature at 68f for four weeks. Prime (part of the batch (~6gal.)) with 76 oz of 1.100 wort (mashed Pils) SG went from 1.055 down to 1.013 at 15 days! Tastes great. Smells of sweet banana, toffee and green apples. http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/recipator/recipator?group=21&item=3695 This is the fourth trappist type I've tried. It took some hot days in 2001 to really finish conditioning on these bottles (popped a few). I usually keg, but this beer demands bottle conditioning and aging. Brewed 10-7-00. Alan, Silverado CA Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 00:02:40 -0400 From: ensmingr at twcny.rr.com Subject: Jamelski beer bottles A local news item on Ryan Brown (Wilkes-Barre, PA) who recently purchased 13,000 beer bottles. Cheerio! Peter A. Ensminger Syracuse, NY - ---------- Syracuse Post Standard: http://www.syracuse.com/ July 23, 2003 Jamelske Bottles Sold Bidder wins kidnapper's collection for $500 on eBay By Mike Fish When Ryan Brown recently purchased a collection of 13,000 beer bottles on eBay, the Pennsylvania teacher had no clue about its notoriety. But last week, when he was visiting the Syracuse area, Brown picked up a copy of The Post-Standard and read front-page stories about John Jamelske, who was sentenced to 18 years to life in state prison for kidnapping five girls and women whom he held as sex slaves in a backyard, underground bunker in DeWitt. That's when Brown realized that the bottles he was buying came from a 68-year-old serial predator who, from the late 1980s until late last year, whisked his victims off the streets of Syracuse and stashed them, one by one, in his concrete cocoon. "I sort of got this (uneasy) gut feeling," said Brown. "We were both really shocked," said Monica Lewis, his girlfriend. But Brown, a high school English teacher from the Wilkes-Barre area who placed the winning bid of $500 in the Internet auction, decided to go through with the purchase. Terms of Jamelske's plea bargain call for him to liquidate his assets - including the beer bottles - and distribute the proceeds among his five victims. Tuesday morning, Brown and half a dozen friends spent three and a half hours carrying thousands of bottles from Jamelske's basement on 7070 Highbridge Road to a U-Haul truck backed into Jamelske's driveway. Tom Krapf, a friend of Brown's from Delaware, helped out. "It's not that spooky," Krapf said. "To the best of everyone's knowledge, no one died in there, so that takes a bit of the spookiness out of it." Brown, 24, who started collecting beer bottles a few years ago, said Jamelske's collection includes beer bottles from all over the world. Brown, though, said he does not know if any of them are particularly valuable. "Overall, for the money I paid for them, I think it was pretty much a steal," he said. Brown said he had a couple thousand bottles in his collection before taking in Tuesday's haul. He will take the collection back to Pennsylvania and recycle some and keep the rest. Even though his new bottles might fetch a fancy price on the open market because of the notoriety, Brown said he does not intend to sell any of them. In fact, he said he does not know how much the collection is really worth. "It's hard to put (a value) on things you collect," he said. When Brown gets back to Pennsylvania and finishes unloading the collection there, he'll have one more thing on his list to do. "I'll be saying a little prayer" in honor of Jamelske's victims, he said. - ----- Return to table of contents
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