HOMEBREW Digest #4341 Fri 05 September 2003

[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]

		Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org


          Northern  Brewer, Ltd. Home Brew Supplies
        http://www.northernbrewer.com  1-800-681-2739

    Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

  Haze, Copper, Batch Sparge Instructions (John Palmer)
  Re: beer and kids (Scott Alfter)
  Sanitizers (thamric)
  Kids and Beer ("Dan Listermann")
  Re: Batch sparge calc's ("Michael O'Donnell")
  grain pests (saw tooth beetles) (Greg Peters)
  fixing a sluggish fermentation ("Raj B. Apte")
  bitterness from decoction (Marc Sedam)
  Drinking Wort, Cold Break, Skimming Hot Break (Alexandre Enkerli)
  Pumps and astringency? ("Christian Layke")
  Finings? ("Jeff Stith")

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * The HBD Logo Store is now open! * * http://www.hbd.org/store.html * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!! To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!** IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address for the automation - that's your job. HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org. The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit. More information is available by sending the word "info" to req at hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org. JANITOR on duty: Pat Babcock (janitor@hbd.org)
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 22:47:01 -0700 From: John Palmer <jjpalmer at altrionet.com> Subject: Haze, Copper, Batch Sparge Instructions My sincere thanks to Chad, Steve, Tim, and Petr for their contributions to the Haze thread. I am learning quite a bit! I tend to be a "medium" level of detail kind of guy, so it's nice to hear from the deep levels of detail people. This encourages me to learn more about these subjects than I thought advisable. ;-) I really can't comment much on the material that Chad cited (I waited to see what Steve would say because I knew he would understand it better than I), but what I did get from his post was a great example for showing where a brewer needs to know his art and move away from the generalities to produce the best beer from a specific set of ingredients and equipment. Obviously, a protein rest if you use high protein adjuncts like oatmeal and wheat. And, his experience indicates that a short protein rest may have benefits for other styles of beer also. Although as Steve said, this data is open to other interpretations of root cause. Still, brewing is an art as well as a science. In my articles (and book) I try to present as round of a picture as I can on the recommended best practices for brewing, and give the reasons why those practices are recommended. Rather than being annoyed, as in "you didn't listen to me!" I am pleased that people take the information with a grain of salt and trust their own experiences too. I guess this turned off on a bit of a tangent, but I wanted to get across the point that even though I am a rather public figure on the HBD, I am not a brewing god; there are lots of more experienced, more skilled, more technical brewers out that I still learn from. It's why I have read the HBD every day for the last ten years. *** Anyway, onto the copper post. Sven wonders about a post he ran across that said, "What JBM is trying to say is that if you use any bleach type agent to clean your copper, you will ruin your copper, and it will become soluble and dangerous levels of copper may end up present in your wort, which could cause kidney failure, and you might die." No. This is like saying that if you swim in the ocean you will get bitten by a shark and may die. Copper can be dissolved into the wort, but the first roadblock to Death is the fact that the fermentation will be impaired if there is really a significant amount of dissolved copper. If you pursued drinking this batch and subsequent batches, you would notice that a) it would taste bad, b) your hair and fingernails would turn green, and c) you would be experiencing other reversible health problems like fatigue, etc. If you managed to imbibe a really high dose of copper, you would experience nausea and vomiting. Perhaps a better analogy is death by a multitude of leeches, because it is going to take a bit of indifference on your part to actually die of copper poisoning from brewing. *** For some batch sparge instructions, see my article Skip the Sparge in the May 2002 of Brew Your Own, or go to http://www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer/HTB_update.pdf and read pages 13-17. Note that my definitions of Batch Sparge and No-Sparge differ from other peoples in some cases. I consider Batch Sparging to be where you add your sparge water in two or more big batches (ex. 3 gallons each) rather than running it in continuously thru a Phil's Sparge Arm or a pitcher at a time. No-Sparge I consider to be a single batch sparge so to speak -- You conduct your mash with the usual mash water ratio, but before taking any runnings or doing the recirculation step, you add all of your sparge water at once, stir, and drain to your boiling pot. Hope this helps, John John Palmer john at howtobrew.com www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer www.howtobrew.com - the free online book of homebrewing Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 22:50:05 -0700 From: Scott Alfter <scott at alfter.us> Subject: Re: beer and kids On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 at 17:50:48 +0200, Braam Greyling <braam.greyling at azoteq.com> wrote: > Some time ago there were a few discussions about beer and kids. > > Have a look at this link: > > http://www.draymans.com/Articles/kids.php Starting when I was 4 or 5, if Dad was having a beer and if I asked, he'd pour maybe an ounce or so into a cup. Later, when my parents started getting into wine, they'd again pour a small amount. I think I turned out OK. :-) (I actually didn't have much interest in the stuff for a few years...didn't even buy my first six-pack until I was 23. The day I turned 21 was no big deal...kinda like turning 18, really, which in turn was no different than turning 31 earlier this year. Big-whoopy-doo. I think we have some unnatural hangups about alcohol (vestiges of Prohibition and the "temperance" movement before that, maybe?). Treating it as some sort of forbidden fruit, I think, is what leads to such dangerous nonsense as "21 for 21" and other "coming-of-age" rituals. While I'm not 100% sure you'd want an 8-year-old going up to the bar and coming back with a pint, I think a law that says parents can't give their own kids alcohol while under their supervision and control does more long-term harm than good.) Scott Alfter scott at alfter.us Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 00:27:41 -0600 From: thamric at attglobal.net Subject: Sanitizers Greetings all - Requesting some collective wisdom on the subject of sanitizers. I have been using Iodophor sanitizer for some time with good results (assuming it is rinsed promptly and thoroghly). Recently, my local supplier stopped carrying Iodophor, and began carrying StarSan, an acid-based sanitizer. In my first experience, I found the StarSan to be a bit of a pain to use, as it foams greatly, and leaves residual foam in my brewing vessels which requires further rinsing. I am using the StarSan at a concentration of 3/4 tbs per 5 gallons of water. Is this concentration too high? Do others experience this problem? What says the collective regarding products for sanitizing? Tim Hamrick Boise, ID Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 09:14:58 -0400 From: "Dan Listermann" <dan at listermann.com> Subject: Kids and Beer >Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 17:50:48 +0200 From: "Braam Greyling" <braam.greyling at azoteq.com> >Subject: beer and kids >Have a look at this link: http://www.draymans.com/Articles/kids.php Whenever any of our children asked to taste a beer, I am always happy to offer one to them. They don't seem to see it as forbidden fruit. Our youngest, Kurt, 14, has become an aficionado of mild ale, my house beer. A disappointment is that the oldest, Phil, 22, drinks Bud, but it is not Bud Light and he no longer turns his nose up at tasting my beers. On a positive note, I have no reason to believe that any of the four ( the middle two are young ladies) are getting into my beers without my permission. Dan Listermann Check out our E-tail site at www.listermann.com Free shipping for orders greater than $35 and East of the Mighty Miss. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 08:44:03 -0700 From: "Michael O'Donnell" <mooseo at stanford.edu> Subject: Re: Batch sparge calc's Something is puzzling me about batch sparge calculations. Why is it necessary to create a recipe using one set of assumptions and then scale it up using various scaling factors. Why doesn't it just work to lower the efficiency settings in the original recipe calculations... it seems like that ought to give the correct quantities, but I am probably missing something. Thanks for any help. mike Monetery, CA At 12:42 AM 9/4/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Subject: RE: How to get the correct volume and Sp. Gr. batch sparge > >Several have asked about the calculations for batch sparging. >I've always used the one listed on this website: Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 11:40:19 -0700 (PDT) From: gregbrews at webtv.net (Greg Peters) Subject: grain pests (saw tooth beetles) greetings everybody I am a new member of hbd and am curious if there are any remedies for eliminating or controling grain pests. It seems as though I had a fair ammount of grain stored for about a year in a spare igloo cooler and the bugs found it! I have vacuumed all around the storage area and cleaned averything. Is there a good insect spray specially for weevils and other grain pests? Any help or info would be appreciated, Thanks, Greg Peters El Cajon, Ca. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 13:34:46 -0700 (PDT) From: "Raj B. Apte" <raj_apte at yahoo.com> Subject: fixing a sluggish fermentation Hi All, I've done a bad thing and underpitched a 1.080 stout (its a long story-- but I relaxed and had a few too many homebrews while making a 1.050 porter). After three days I'm still above 1.045. But while making up the 2L starter that I should have done in the first place, I ran across an interesting idea on a wine making website. http://www.vinquiry.com/pdf/ METHODTORESTARTSTUCKFERMENTATION2002.pdf The basic idea is to make up a second starter, but rather than just dump it into the stuck carboy, to add portions of the stuck fermentation to the starter, say a gallon at a time, and then wait until it attenuates halfway before adding the next gallon. This way the yeast do not have to reproduce to the usual billion/liter.Plato, they can ferment in a much lower gravity (but high alcohol) environment. What do y'all think of the idea? Has somebody tried this? Is it worth trying, or shall I just pitch my new starter? It makes a lot of sense given what I've read about incremental feeding and high alcohol. raj Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 16:39:02 -0400 From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> Subject: bitterness from decoction I was reading Steve's response yesterday to the reasons why a decocted beer might be less bitter and I had a thought. I think there is agreement that decocting a beer puts more tannins in the wort INITIALLY. But these tannins get bound with other proteins in the wort and settle out during the lagering process so that the final amount of tannins is not presumptively different than in a non-decocted beer. Could the alpha acids be precipitating out with the protein-tannin complex in the decocted beer? From a ionic charge standpoint it might make sense... Just thinking out loud. - -- Marc Sedam Chapel Hill, NC Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 19:59:19 -0400 From: Alexandre Enkerli <aenkerli at indiana.edu> Subject: Drinking Wort, Cold Break, Skimming Hot Break Brewed a blond ale today and kept the part of the wort with too much cold break in a pot to drink as is. It's a fairly bitter brew (~32IBU) and may not satisfy everyone as a non-beer drink (SWMBO didn't really like it) but it reminded me of malt drinks (from Europe) they have in West Africa, such as Vitamalt. From the ingredients of some of these drinks, they're really unfermented wort. In fact, for the fun of it, I added a bit of 7UP to some wort and it tasted quite a bit like lemon Vitamalt. Then, I read the page on children and beer Braam just sent, and was thinking about malt drinks for kids. Do some brewers offer unfermented wort to their kids? Do the kids like it? And what about drink large amounts of cold break? It's harmless, right? Wait... No, I'm ok. Speaking of break, do most people skim off hot break? I have a great restaurant-style "skimmer" (Fr. "ecumoir") that I use to skim off most of the hot break material before I incorporate bittering hops. Is this a common practice? Does it help? I know it's supposed to be mostly protein but I'd assume proteins could be good. Thanks! Alex, in Montreal [555.1km, 62.8] Apparent Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 23:11:12 -0400 From: "Christian Layke" <clayke at wri.org> Subject: Pumps and astringency? I recently bought a pump and have used it the last two beers I brewed. Not coincidently, I suspect, they have both been atrocious--a strange sourish, offensive mouthfeel. I've read about insufficient recirculation causing astringency but haven't ever had the experience to know what they were referring to. Now I think I know (although, it could be an infection, though, as our basement is a mold breeding ground) I haven't found a lot on this flavor in my books. If it is astringecy, I recirculated but did have difficultly getting the runoff to get and remain as clear as it did when I used the (very slow) gravity powered sparge. Has anyone else had a similar experience? Can anyone share some successful pump transition experiences? I am using a Sabco converted keg with a false bottom as my mash tun. Thanks in advance, Christian Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 22:55:10 -0500 From: "Jeff Stith" <jttstith at earthlink.net> Subject: Finings? I haven't used a recipe that calls for unflavored gelatin as a "fining". Found a spiced hard cider recipe that says to "fine with gelatin once cider clears". This is in the secondary after two weeks. What does this do and how do I use it? Do I just add dry gelatin powder to the secondary or mix it with water? Any help is appreciated! Thanks! Jeff S. Return to table of contents
[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]
HTML-ized on 09/05/03, by HBD2HTML v1.2 by KFL
webmaster at hbd.org, KFL, 10/9/96