HOMEBREW Digest #4361 Tue 30 September 2003

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  thinking of moving to the basement.. ("jim")
  the missing WMDs ... (ensmingr)
  question about adding lactose post ferment (John Schnupp)
  re: hop back (Dane Mosher)
  Beer Captured (rickdude02)
  Splenda (Fred Johnson)
  RE: Hop back ("Sven Pfitt")
  Help ("Doug A Moller")
  RE: Beer Captured, Schlenkerla (eIS) - Eastman" <stjones@eastman.com>
  sweetener/diet,  hot wort and air ("Dave Burley")
  Looking for hydrometers (Jason Henning)
  Re: Storing propagated Morland's yeast (Kevin Wagner)
  Stuck mash ("Brian Schar")
  New brewery ("Mike Eyre")
  Cloning Duchesse de Bourgogne ("Raj B. Apte")
  Difference between Ale and Lager (tebird)
  Top Pressure Carbonation, and Reno NV (james ray)
  brew pumps (Ralph Link)
  Ethanol (Jay Hellhound)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 00:57:34 -0400 From: "jim" <jimswms at cox.net> Subject: thinking of moving to the basement.. I'd like to move my rims into the basement and am looking for pros/cons. I plan on building a full brewery down there. Drain. sink. a friend builds vents for restaurants, so, I plan on having him do a kick ass hood. What are the concerns that I need to know about? I'll be converting to Natural gas. thanks, Jim Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 01:00:52 -0400 From: ensmingr <ensmingr at twcny.rr.com> Subject: the missing WMDs ... Ever wonder where those missing WMDs got to? A George Will column from June 22 (2003) suggests an answer (<http://www.townhall.com/columnists/georgewill/gw20030622.shtml>): "... Such destruction need not have been a huge task. Says [James] Woolsey [President Clinton's first CIA director]. Chemical or biological weapons could have been manufactured with minor modifications of a fertilizer plant, or in a plant as small as a microbrewery attached to a restaurant." Cheerio! Peter A. Ensminger Syracuse, NY http://hbd.org/ensmingr Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:07:05 -0700 (PDT) From: John Schnupp <johnschnupp at yahoo.com> Subject: question about adding lactose post ferment After a long hiatus from brewing (almost two years), I'm finally going to get down and do something about it. Seems like there is always something competing for my time so I'm going to knock out an extract batch. I'm thinking a stout. I keg in 3 gallon kegs so a 10 gallon batch would be perfect. My thoughts are to ferment this out as a basic stout and then at kegging time add some lactose to one keg for a cream/sweet stout and then some liquid smoke to the other for a smoked stout. I've successfully, to the tune of a third place ribbon, used liquid smoke in the past. For me the secret is to use a little. There's no way I'd try and make something like a rauchbier with liquid smoke but just a touch for a light smoky hint works great. My question is more about adding the lactose. I've always added it during the boil and fermented it. I know that it really isn't fermentable so I'm thinking I could boil a solution for 15-20 minutes and add it like I used to add the priming sugar when I was bottling. Any input/advise on this? Thanks, ===== John Schnupp, N3CNL ??? Hombrewery [560.2, 68.6] Rennerian Georgia, VT 95 XLH 1200, Bumblebee Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 03:25:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Dane Mosher <dane_mosher at yahoo.com> Subject: re: hop back > Is a hop back with an unsealed lid a good choice? I wouldn't count on steam being a good oxygen barrier, as it is not heavier than air the way CO2 is. But I personally wouldn't worry about HSA from a hopback as long as flow was gentle. I use a sealed hop back from Precision Brewing Systems (possibly no longer in business). It works great in filtering out hot break and spent hops, but surprisingly I haven't noticed any significant gain in hop aroma or flavor from it. Its capacity is probably too small (1.5 oz) for that effect on my 10 gal system. Don't underestimate how much space an ounce of leaf hops occupies! I wish mine could hold twice as much. Dane Mosher Fort Worth, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 06:35:22 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: rickdude02 at earthlink.net Subject: Beer Captured I simply have to post this due to the negative comments on the subject book. Honestly, I only used it once (it's not my book), but my results were very good. But let me tell you the whole story, 'cos my experience isn't exactly cut 'n dried. It was for one of our club's Big Brew (that is, we brew 10 - 20 gallons, either for an event or distribution to members). We were brewing 10 gallons of barley wine for our Christmas party later that year. I (the brewmaster for this one-- we rotate that responsibility) decided I wanted something that met in-between Old Foghorn and Bigfoot. I didn't have the inclination (or maybe the time, or maybe both) to sit down and work it all out myself, so I borrowed a buddy's Clone Brews and Beer Captured. Incidentally, those books do have instructions for all-grain and partial mash brews, although they're in sidebars. Seemed odd to me, because usually it goes the other way around; the recipe is all-grain, and there's a sidebar for the extract conversion. Anyway, using the two recipes and my own brewing sense, we produced a beer that was almost exactly what I was looking for. The recipes certainly made sense for those two beers, but I don't know if they would have turned out true Old Foghorn or Bigfoot clones if I'd simply made those recipes. The buddy that I borrowed the books from has made a number of the recipes, and those that I have tasted have been quite good. His Old Rasputin clone was great... although not a perfect replica of Old Rasputin. I guess my point is that I think they have merit in terms of helping you to produce good beers, although I can't speak to them producing true clones. Rick Theiner LOGIC, Inc. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 07:20:18 -0400 From: Fred Johnson <FLJohnson at portbridge.com> Subject: Splenda Steve suggested that Splenda may not be suitable for beer because it is unstable at beer pH. For what it's worth, Splenda is also available as a 25% (w/w) aqueous concentrate (also containing potassium sorbate and sodium benzoate!) at pH 4.20-4.60. That sounds pretty close to the pH of beer. Anyone know more about the lability of Splenda with regard to pH? Fred L Johnson Apex, North Carolina, USA Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 07:49:08 -0400 From: "Sven Pfitt" <the_gimp98 at hotmail.com> Subject: RE: Hop back Kevin McDonough Ponders HSAvs unsealed hopbacks. >B3 sells a hop back, but the lid does not seal. I've read that you need to >have a sealed lid to prevent O2 from mixing with the hot wort. If that is >true, would running the hot wort through the B3 hop back result in HSA (I'm >not that concerned about HSA in general, but am just curious)? Or would >the hot steam force prevent the outside O2 from entering the hop back, sort >of the same way that CO2 in the fermenter prevents O2 from touching the >wort? > >The other thing I wonder about having a hop back lid that doesn't seal is >that the aromatic oils from the hops would escape. What are your thoughts? > Is a hop back with an unsealed lid a good choice? 1) All air in the hopback when the lid is put on is available for HSA. 2) If the lid makes a reasonable closure, there will be little air exchange ohter than air pulled in if the level of liquid falls, and pushed out as the livel rises. So the question that needs to be answered is how consistent is the flow of wort through the hopback. It would seem to me to be no worse thant using a grant if there is not a lot of tutbulance in the licquid in the hopback. Probably doesn't answer your question, but you did ask for my thoughts.......... Steven, -75 XLCH- Ironhead Nano-Brewery http://thegimp.8k.com Johnson City, TN [422.7, 169.2] Rennerian "There is no such thing as gravity, the earth sucks." Wings Whiplash - 1968 Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 07:25:13 -0500 From: "Doug A Moller" <damoller at intergate.com> Subject: Help Hi I am in need of help wiring up 2 double float liquid level switch's. One of them for filling and one for emptying. I have relays for the float switches and a capacitor for each. I want to put the relay and capacitor in a electrical box with a switch for "on", "auto" and "off" settings. I have power cords to wire in that allow me to plug whatever pump I want to it. Like the ones used on the homebrew thermostats to plug your refrigeration into! Doug A Moller Brewmaster Oklahoma Brewing Ltd Co brewmaster at intergate.com 20301 Palomino Way Macomb, OK 74852-8808 405-226-3111 Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 08:48:17 -0400 From: "Jones, Steve (eIS) - Eastman" <stjones at eastman.com> Subject: RE: Beer Captured, Schlenkerla I figured I'd chime in on the discussion concerning the book "Beer Captured" and the cloning of Aecht Schlenkerla Rauchbier since this is one of my all time favorite beers. I've made a few attempts to clone Schlenkerla Maerzen, with quite variable results. My first attempt used 94% Weyermann's Bamberg malt and 6% Dark Munich malt, with a mash schedule of 30 min at 131F followed by 60 min at 151F. This one was about as smoky as Schlenkerla, but didn't come close to the level of maltiness. As a result, it seemed out of balance to the smoky side. The second one I scaled back the rauchmalt to 40%, with 40% weyermann's pilsner & 20% dark munich, with the same mash schedule. This one had a better malt profile, though still not enough, but was too light on the smokiness. My third batch used 60% rauchmalt, 20% dark munich, and 20% pilsner, with a similar mash schedule. Surprisingly, this one was less smoky than batch 2. I think that the new bag of rauchmalt was quite a bit less smoky than the first bag I had bought and used for the first two batches. If Weyermann's rauchmalt is inconsistent from batch to batch then you need to include that factor in any attempt at cloning this beer. I used Munich Lager yeast in all three batches. All 3 batches were a bit lighter in color than Schlenkerla. I've judged the smoked beer category of the nationals the last few years, and none of the classic rauchbier style entries have come very close to the standard. I would think that to successfully clone this beer you need to first concentrate on attaining the proper level of maltiness of the base style (Maerzen), which might necessitate a decoction mash or the use of melanoidin malt. Once this is achieved you can tune the level of smokiness that will balance the malt character, and you might need to save some of your rauchmalt to compare to the next new bag you get, and use the comparison results to adjust your rauchmalt percentage accordingly. FWIW, my next batch will be (using 75% system efficiency), batch sparging: 76% Weyermann's Rauchmalt (if the new malt is about the same as the old - otherwise adjusting up or down about 10%). 20% Weyermann's Munich Dark 4% Caramunich 75 WLP833 Bock yeast (Ayinger) 132-148-158-168 mash schedule for 15-45-45-10 minutes, using decoctions to raise the temps. Shooting for 1.055 OG, 26 ibu using Mittelfruh, 14 srm. I should be getting started on this one in the next few months. Thanks, Steve Jones Senior Systems Analyst, Eastman Chemical Company e-Commerce Applications & Services email: stjones at eastman.com Phone: +1 423.229.3430 Mobile: +1 423.292.1813 Fax: +1 423.224.0314 Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 10:34:14 -0400 From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net> Subject: sweetener/diet, hot wort and air Brewsters: All this stuff about malto-dextrin not being calorific and not a sugar ( I think that is the implication) may be OK if you are a yeast but our fine complex digestive systems even use starch, so you have to count the calories of the malto dextrin even if it is, theoretically, not a simple sugar. Also I deeply doubt the arithmetic that a few grams of sweetener in whatever form will cause you to gain or lose weight. I once read that if the body behaved in this way that eating one carrot more a day than your calorie utilization would cause you to gain 600 pounds in a lifetime. Obviously, it is about time to redo our 18th century based thinking about diets. Biggest problem ( and there are many) with the calorie /weight gain theory is that it does not take into acccount how much of ingested calories are eliminated without being utilized. To get a true reading on this you have to measure how many calories go in and how many go out and how many are burned to get the equation to balance. I don't know of any diet plans that do this. Not very appetising thoughts but don't ignore it. I suspect the whole theory of dieting would change if this were taken into account. It may also have something to do with the success of the Atkins diet in which the protein diet is difficult to digest so passes through the digestive system without being absorbed as mcuh as well as it requires more energy per calories released. - ---------------------------- Hot wort in contact with air is a real beer spoiler. Don't do it under any circumstance. Also keep your boiling kettle partially covered so the steam pushes away any air. Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 11:00:37 -0400 From: Jason Henning <jason at thehennings.com> Subject: Looking for hydrometers I'm looking for two types of hydrometers. The first one has a range of 1.000 to 1.070 and the second one has a range of 0.980 to 1.020. The brew shop that I had bought these at has closed. I would appreciate any help finding a brew shop that carries these. Cheers, Jason Henning Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 08:03:34 -0700 From: Kevin Wagner <kevin.wagner at watchmark.com> Subject: Re: Storing propagated Morland's yeast Chris asks how he can store his yeast for a month or two. Create slants. Here is a good step by step: http://hbd.org/~ddraper/beer/slantuse.html -K Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 08:34:34 -0700 From: "Brian Schar" <bschar at cardica.com> Subject: Stuck mash Yesterday was one of those brew days where everything that can go wrong did go wrong. I won't bore you with my boilover (at least it was in the driveway and I could hose it down) or my lackluster yeast starter (my kitchen was too cold), among other issues. The biggest hassle was my stuck mash. This was my third all-grain batch, and the first one that stuck. I was brewing a 10-gallon batch of stout; the total grain bill was 18.5 pounds mashed in an Igloo 10-gallon cooler with a Bazooka strainer for wort collection. I've mashed more grain than this in the same tun without incident. As far as I can tell, the cause of my problem boils down (pun intended) to two possible sources: the use of Maris Otter malt, and the use of 1 pound of flaked wheat for head retention. It was the first time for both. I suspect it was the wheat, due to the presence of little granules about 0.5 mm in diameter in the mash tun that I hadn't seen before. I had the flaked wheat crushed with the grain, which I believe created those particles that in turn may have stuck my mash. Dumb question #1: when using flaked wheat, should I crush it? In the future I'll be adding rice hulls to my mash to help prevent this. Dumb question #2: do you put all the rice hulls at the bottom of the mash tun, or mix them evenly throughout the grist? Any help is greatly appreciated. Future mashes will thank you. Brian Schar Belmont, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 12:28:10 -0400 From: "Mike Eyre" <meyre at sbcglobal.net> Subject: New brewery Hello all! I've got a few questions I'm sure are easy, but I just don't have the answer to..couldn't find it on the net anywhere. Any site suggestions would be welcome. First, the basis of my questions is that I'm upgrading my brewery. I had a bunch of pots on the stove for heating strike water, a converted coleman cooler for a mashtun and a converted keg for a boiler for the old setup.. And my new setup is going to be a 3 tier gravity feed all converted keg arrangement. I've got everything done except for the final tigntening of the gas lines from the propane tank, and the plumbing for the kegs, which I'm working on now. All kegs have their own burner. Questions are as follows: 1. I've always seen and heard of the milled grain having the strike water added to it, rather than the other way around. My question is in regards to the plumbing setup.. I can easily heat the strike water in the mash vessle and add the grain to the water, or I can heat the strike water from the top kettle and add that to the dry grain in the mashtun. Right now I've only got a sprinkler setup coming from the top vessel to sparge the mash.. I don't have a way to pre-measure the strike water, because I didn't put a sight gage on the HLT.. I can do that in the future, but I just don't have one right now. It's easy enough to measure out the water in the mash tun itself, heat it, then add the grains to it and dough in.. Is that "wrong"?? Will this afect anything? It's a lot easier and less costly (less plumbing and valves and stuff, etc..) to do it this way, but I'll change my setup if I have to. 2. From the internet and my own little bit of testing, I've made the mashtun with a circular pipe with a lot of holes drilled in it, instead of slots like my old copper tube mash strainer. I definitely wanted a manifild instead of a false bottom, because I don't want any dead space in the mash that I can't get to with a spoon to stir. Anyone have any experience with a bunch-of-holes-in-a-pipe mash ring manifold? Experiences with using it? 3. This single flare soft copper tubing is a bear to get to seal for the propane lines.. Any advise on how to make these tools work better, or some such, to get the hang of this deal? Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 10:35:36 -0700 (PDT) From: "Raj B. Apte" <raj_apte at yahoo.com> Subject: Cloning Duchesse de Bourgogne All, I would like to clone the Verhaeghe Duchesse de Bourgogne, my favorite flemish red. Thus far I have come pretty close to Rodenbach using Wheeler and Protz's recipe and cultures from the bottom of NBB La Folie in an oak cask. The two flavor components of the Duchesse that are different to me are the 'balsamic' and the sweetness. Blending a bit of licorice into a finished bottle of my Rodenbach-clone gets pretty close to the Duchesse, including the aftertaste that many think is from artificial sweetener. It doesn't give the 'balsamic' notes 1. Do you think its possible that licorice is used in making Duchesse de Bourgogne? Belgians use spices, and licorice is common in stout, but .... 2. Anyone have any better ideas on cloning? I'm guessing that starting from my Rodenbach process, a very long boil might give more of the 'balsamic' notes. On the malt bill, the color suggests increasing the chocolate malt to, maybe, 500gm. Any other ideas? thanks, Raj B. Apte Palo Alto Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 12:58:06 -0500 From: tebird at centurytel.net Subject: Difference between Ale and Lager Yesterday at our usual Sunday afternoon beer and football neighborhood meeting I had an experience I would like help settling from all the experts at this forum. I have been homebrewing for about 2 years and always believed that the difference between ale beer and lager beer is the type yeast used in fermentation. Ale yeast being a top fermenting and lager being bottom fermenting. As we were talking one young lady in the group told us she has a boss in Austin that home brews and brought some beer to work that he told them had a alcohol content of about 12% ABV. I told her I believed it would be an imperial stout or barley wine though it could be other beer styles. I was at that time told by a, dare I mention it, Bud regional sales person that it was a Ale. I said it could be but did not have to be. He said it HAD to be an ale because anything over 5.5% ABV was an ale while under 5.5% was a lager. I told him he was wrong and he bet me $100 that he was right. OK, am I completely off? I hate to be wrong but will admit it if I am. Thanks to all. Thomas Bird San Marcos TX. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 16:45:44 -0700 (PDT) From: james ray <jnjnmiami at yahoo.com> Subject: Top Pressure Carbonation, and Reno NV I followed the thread on top pressure carbonation as I read a weeks worth of HBD's ( I've been away ) hoping some one would catch what I saw in the original post. I think that what Todd Ashmann was getting at was that top[ pressure is better than the alternative and the norm in most breweries and that is bottom pressure through a carbonating stone. I think that the stone could stir up the fermenter and prevent the yeast from clearing as quickly as with top pressure. I have always tried to catch the tail end of fermentation to start carbonating a beer and then to apply additional pressure while crashing the fermenter. I usually only have to make minor adjustments in the carbonation after filtering. On another note I will be road tripping to Reno NV this weekend. Could anyone recommend any local brewpubs and since we will be towing a trailer any beer stores. Jamie Ray Rjraybrewer at aol.com Montgomery, AL Formerly of Titanic Brewing Co. Miami, FL Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 21:04:31 -0500 From: Ralph Link <ralphl at shaw.ca> Subject: brew pumps Can anyone give me information regarding where to purchase or get information on brew pumps. Is Moving Brews still in business? What are the RIMS people using these days? Private email is great. Thanks Ralph Link Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 22:21:40 -0400 From: Jay Hellhound <whiplash at juno.com> Subject: Ethanol Hey guys, I was poking around trying to find the chemical composition (or whatever it is you call things like "H2O") of Ethanol and sometimes I see it as CH3CH2OH and sometimes I see it as ETOH. I realize this is a potentially very complex question but which one is the accepted way to represent the type of alcohol that comprises the bulk of the alcohol that you would generally find in beer? Is ETOH just an abbreviation? Jay, Rehab Homebrewing Walpole MA 02081 Return to table of contents
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