HOMEBREW Digest #4503 Thu 18 March 2004

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  Beer related pet names ("Robert and Susan Rigg")
  Batch Sparge techniques ("Parker Dutro")
  Re: Advanced Brewing Texts (Wes Smith)
  Roselare yeast ("jens maudal")
  Beery pets... (Pat Babcock)
  Re: hard cider recipe (Jeff Renner)
  Wyeast Roselaere blend (Bjoern.Thegeby)
  Beer names (Lee Ellman)
  Re:Pets with beer-related names (Kevin Brown)
  Re: Pets with beer-related names (NO Spam)
  recirculating Wit mash (Mark Beck)
  RE: Wyeast Roselaere blend (MOREY Dan)
  Re: Roselaere Blend (Robert Sandefer)
  Re: Health Beer (Robert Sandefer)
  Re: Carbonate precipitation ("Martin Brungard")
  RE: Pets with beer-related names ("Leonard, Phil")
  malt specs for Specialized Malting & Roasting...?? ("Steve Dale-Johnson")
  New Online Competition Report System (Ed Westemeier)
  BJCP Northeast Region Election (Ed Westemeier)
  Re: Health Beer (Aaron Gates)
  Re:Wyeast Roselaere blend ("Raj B. Apte")
  hop rhizomes in europe (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Fernando_Gon=E7alves?=)
  Health beers ("The Mad Brewer")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 20:20:51 -0800 From: "Robert and Susan Rigg" <rsrigg at turbonet.com> Subject: Beer related pet names Funny you should ask... I have a cat who 8 years ago as a kitten jumped, leaped, and bounced everywhere he went. As I had just started brewing a few months earlier, his name became "Hops" or sometimes "Hoppy". ~Rob~ - ----I'm curious as to how many people out there have pets (or children, for that matter) with beer-related names.----- Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 21:56:34 -0800 From: "Parker Dutro" <pacman at edwardwadsworth.com> Subject: Batch Sparge techniques I have recently been batch sparging and am impressed with the results and ease of the process. I use a fairly large SS mash tun, and wonder about a change in the procedure. Mash in as usual, but instead of draining the tun and adding the second hit of sparge water I thought it might work well to add the second measured amount of water at the pre-destined temp to bring everything up to mash-out temps and drain the whole thing in one fell swoop. This would avoid the grain bed getting "gummy" after the first drain and would allow me to re-circulate only once before draining instead of twice, one before the first drain and one before the second. This may help keep clearer wort and less tannin extraction. Are there any reasons that this would be a BAD idea? Or, perhaps, does anyone here batch sparge this way? I appreciate help. Parker Portland, Oregon Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:33:04 +1100 From: Wes Smith <wsmith at rslcom.net.au> Subject: Re: Advanced Brewing Texts "Malting and Brewing Science" 2nd edition was published some 20 years ago and has not been updated apparently due to the death of James Hough and the closure of the British School of Malting and Brewing. Dennis Briggs, one of the original authors has however, published "Malts and Malting" under his own name and this is intended to be an "update" to volume 1 of "Malting and Brewing Science". I recently bought a copy through Amazon (ISBN 0 412 29800 7) and would thoroughly recommend it to VERY advanced home brewers keen to delve into the mysteries of malting. It concentrates on malts and malting as the title indicates and is both theoretical and practical (a rare mix!) I still think however, that Kunze is the best buy for serious home and micro brewers as the presentation and content is more applicable to day to day brewing. Wes. >I've heard that "Malting and Brewing Science" vols I & II by Briggs, Hough >et.al. are quite good, but have yet to see them. They also appear to be the >most pricey of the pro-brew books at about $170 each. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:34:05 +0100 From: "jens maudal" <jens.maudal at start.no> Subject: Roselare yeast Marc Sedam ask about the Wyeast Rosewlare strain. I made a belgian sour with this yeast some months ago and i experianced the same dissapointment as you, the beer does not taste at all sour but has a strong taste of the old horse like you have in the orval but without the souerness to compensate. The beer has now aged 3 months but has not changed significantly in taste. So far this has been a rather dissapointing yeast. Jens > Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:29:10 -0500 > From: Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> > Subject: Wyeast Roselaere blend > > I am testing out some oud bruin recipes and used the Wyeast Roselaere > blend to ferment the first one. The first thing I noticed was that > fermentation took several days to start, even from a swelled XL pack. > Guessing that the bacteria/yeast mix was settling in. Fermentation was > slow and steady and looks about done now, with a gravity drop from 1.052 > to 1.012. I do see some activity in the airlock and know that if > there's a lactobacillus in the culture, that bugger will continue to > feed. Been about three weeks from the brew date. > > I was a little surprised...OK...disappointed to taste the beer when I > racked. Not really sour, not really characteristic of the oud bruins > I've had on both sides of the pond. Has anyone brewed with this culture > before? Does it get more sour? Is this something that should sit on > the lees as it ages for two, four, six months? > > - -- > > Marc Sedam > Associate Director > Office of Technology Development > The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill > 308 Bynum Hall; CB# 4105 > Chapel Hill, NC 27599-4105 > Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 07:29:38 -0500 (EST) From: Pat Babcock <pbabcock at hbd.org> Subject: Beery pets... Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager... I have a blond mutt we call Samuel Adams. Strange, because I usually name my dogs for composers. - -- - God bless America! Pat Babcock in SE Michigan pbabcock at hbd.org Home Brew Digest Janitor janitor at hbd.org HBD Web Site http://hbd.org The Home Brew Page http://hbd.org/pbabcock [18, 92.1] Rennerian "I don't want a pickle. I just wanna ride on my motorsickle" - Arlo Guthrie Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:54:47 -0500 From: Jeff Renner <jeffrenner at comcast.net> Subject: Re: hard cider recipe Marc Sedam <marc_sedam at unc.edu> wrote: >When fermentation is complete, rack into secondary fermenter with >the remaining gallon of unfermented cider. Add two Campden tablets >to the secondary to stop any further fermentation. I can't argue with success, but I think that using potassium sorbate rather than Campden might be more reliable and would avoid SO2, which might cause asthmatics problems. On the other hand, SO2 will also avoid oxidation and keep it fresh tasting. Jeff - -- Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, JeffRenner at comcast.net "One never knows, do one?" Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:06:34 +0100 From: Bjoern.Thegeby at cec.eu.int Subject: Wyeast Roselaere blend Marc Sedam comments: "I was a little surprised...OK...disappointed to taste the beer when I racked. Not really sour, not really characteristic of the oud bruins I've had on both sides of the pond." The character in the red Flanders beers like Rodenbach comes mainly from Brettanomyces. Just give it time.Brett will slowly but steadily munch through sugars, dextrins, starches, cellulose, glass and your floor;-) More seriously, it truly can ferment matter we normally consider unfermentables. It does this slowly, but can over time raise the alcohol and the CO2 level. As you are probably not going to cellar it for a few years, it will not matter, but I had a case of kriek that could only be opened under water.... Leave it for 3 months and taste again. You are going to be pleasantly surprised. Cheers Bjorn T (five miles from Lembeek) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:30:48 -0500 From: Lee Ellman <lee.ellman at cityofyonkers.com> Subject: Beer names Long before I started brewing, and at a time in my life that I hardly drank beer at all, we named son #2 Samuel Adam. It truly had nothing to do with the beer. He was due about the 4th of July and we were casting about for names. A friend told me about their Uncle Sam (...born on the 4th of July...I'm a Yankee Doodle Dandy...) and we got warm to the idea. Needed a middle name and yeah I suppose the beer name came to mind but it really was a matter it sounding good with the first name. We have told him that we have cursed him to being called "six pack" or some such in college but as a 7 yr. old he just laughs and tells me "Dad you are so funny!" Oh, and no interest in brewing or drinking beer at all. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:00:20 -0400 From: Kevin Brown <kbrown at uvi.edu> Subject: Re:Pets with beer-related names Greetings, My wife named our dog Pivo and I have a friend who named his dog Bock. It will be interesting to see how many home brewers use brew related names. Na zdravi, Kevin St. Thomas, U.S. Virgin Islands Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:31:31 -0500 From: NO Spam <nospam02 at brewbyyou.net> Subject: Re: Pets with beer-related names My store cat, Maris Otter, just died on me last August. She was the best cat I ever had. I really miss her. Bill Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:47:06 -0800 From: Mark Beck <beckmk at whitman.edu> Subject: recirculating Wit mash Hello all, I just bought a pump, and am new to recirculating my mash (done one batch of Ordinary Bitter so far). For my next batch I'm planning to make a Wit beer with a malt bill of 55% Pilsner and 45% soft white Walla Walla winter wheat. I plan to use a protein rest at around 124 deg., and a saccharification rest at around 150 deg. Because of the high percentage of unmalted wheat, I'm terrified of a stuck mash. Do I need to add rice hulls or something to ensure good lautering? Am I more likely to get a stuck mash during the protein rest or the saccharification rest? Do I even need to bother recirculating during the protein rest? Are my worries just plain unfounded? Any suggestions appreciated. Mark Walla Walla, WA Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:09:58 -0600 From: MOREY Dan <dan.morey at cnh.com> Subject: RE: Wyeast Roselaere blend > I was a little surprised...OK...disappointed to taste the beer when > I racked. Not really sour, not really characteristic of the oud > bruins I've had on both sides of the pond. Has anyone brewed with > this culture before? Does it get more sour? Is this something that > should sit on the lees as it ages for two, four, six months? Last July, after NHC 2003, I attempted this style. I couldn't find much information so I started with a grain bill similar to a dubbel, perhaps a bit more special B (I don't have my brew records with me). I built up a one quart starter from the smack pack and used this to inoculate the wort. The starter had a definite sour aroma. Fermentation began quickly and was vigorous. In July, I typically see high 60s to low 70s for fermentation temperatures. In general, I have found all the Belgian yeasts to slow down significantly when temperatures approach the low 60's. Perhaps this explains your slow start. About a week later, I transferred to secondary with 1/4 lb of oak chips. Wasn't real sour tasting when I transferred it. The secondary is a plastic bucket that I have dedicated for Lambic style and other sour ales. It is still in secondary. I'll probably bottle it around May. As for the appearance, it is similar to the Lambic style I brewed last year with the Wyeast Lambic blend. There is a fuzzy scum like layer over the top of the beer. The aroma is sour, but not nearly as powerful as the Lambic from the previous year. I haven't sampled it since the first transfer, but I am looking forward to doing so. I definitely believe this style needs to age on the lees. I think 9 months is a good starting point. Cheers, Dan Morey Club BABBLE http://hbd.org/babble [213.1, 271.5] mi Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:41:58 -0500 From: Robert Sandefer <melamor at vzavenue.net> Subject: Re: Roselaere Blend While I haven't used the blend myself, everything I've read about oud bruins suggests that a lengthy aging is necessary to develop the acidity (and esters) of the style. The best article about old brown production I have seen is "Getting Good and Sour: Conditioning Wood Barrels for Sour Beer Production" by Jeff Sparrow (Zymurgy Vol. 25 No. 5 Sept/Oct 2002). This article states that a two-year secondary is used at New Belgium Brewery and in the production of La Folie. It also states that to prevent autolysis flavors the yeast is removed from the beer prior to entering the aging barrels. Lit it sit, Marc. Robert Sandefer ARlington, VA Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:53:42 -0500 From: Robert Sandefer <melamor at vzavenue.net> Subject: Re: Health Beer I am not a nutritionist (though I've been forced to have plenty of experience with the field) and I know this is off-topic, but... I'd like to point out that no, one ingredient/food (excepting poisons) is healthy or unhealthy. Diets (i.e., the total sum of material ingested) can be healthy or unhealthy (and better terms would be balanced or unbalanced). Even "bad" foods (e.g., ice cream, candy, butter) can be used in a healthy diet. The key is balance and moderation. So, experiment with what you want in your beer. That's part of the fun, but don't worry about how healthy it is. (That depends on what else you've been eating.) Getting down off my soap box, Robert Sandefer Arlington, VA Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:21:05 -0900 From: "Martin Brungard" <mabrungard at hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Carbonate precipitation Brian asked if calcium precipitates from wort like it does when plain water is boiled. The short answer is no. The pH of the liquid is an important factor in precipitation chemistry. In the case of plain water, the pH can be relatively alkaline (pH > 7). Some water can be acidic, but it usually doesn't have a carbonate hardness issue. The presence of bicarbonate or carbonate in water is always coincident with a pH of 7.5 or higher. There are a couple of ways that calcium can be precipitated. The most common are boiling and lime treatment. During boiling of plain water, the CO2 is driven out of solution and the pH increases. Adding lime also increases the water's pH. In both cases, the solubility limit for the calcium can be exceeded and a portion of the calcium and accompanying carbonate species are precipitated out of solution as chalk (calcium carbonate). In wort, the pH is usually around 5 to 5.7. The soluability of calcium in wort is maintained throughout the boil. There is no loss of calcium during a wort boil. Martin Brungard Tallahassee, FL Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:35:20 -0600 From: "Leonard, Phil" <Phil.Leonard at dsionline.com> Subject: RE: Pets with beer-related names Scott Stihler wants to know about pets/kids with beer-related names. My dog's name is Stout. He is a Husky/Shepard mix and he'll be glad to share a glass of beer with you. Philip [612 251,4 AR] Overland Park, KS Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:06:57 -0800 From: "Steve Dale-Johnson" <sdalejohnson at hotmail.com> Subject: malt specs for Specialized Malting & Roasting...?? I've just received a few 88# bags of malt from a friend, from the now defunct Specialized Malting & Roasting Company of Tottenham, Ontario. The tags read Organic Pale Malt, Organic Cara-Malt 30 L and Organic Caramel Malt 60 L. The pale malt appears to be standard two row pale. The Crystal 60 appears to be standard medium/dark crystal malt. My question lies with the Cara-Malt 30L....Does anyone know if this is a Munich/Vienna with sufficient enzymes to convert itself (and appropriate for a Vienna/Marzen in as much as 100% of the grist) or is this an enzymatically "dead" light crystal that should be limited to <20% to keep unfermentables within reasonable levels?? Any info on diastatic power, or better yet a source for full malt specs would be much appreciated. The malt may be as much as three years old, which raises its own set of issues, but appears to be well stored and in good condition. Steve Dale-Johnson Brewing at 1918 miles, 298 degrees Rennerian Delta (Vancouver), BC, Canada. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:49:24 -0500 From: Ed Westemeier <hopfen at malz.com> Subject: New Online Competition Report System On behalf of the BJCP, I'm happy to announce that we now have a fully electronic system through which competition organizers can submit their reports via their web browser. The intention has always been to eventually eliminate the stubby pencil approach and integrate these reports into our database with as little manual effort as possible. Thanks to the skills of Jamil Zainasheff and Gordon Strong, we're now just about there. You'll find a new link on the BJCP home page (www.bjcp.org) that competition organizers can use to submit their reports directly, in three steps: First, enter the competition info (number of entries, flights, days, and dates). Second, enter the data for judges, stewards, and staff. Third, review the information you entered, confirm it, and send it. We hope that the majority (if not all) of future competitions will be able to enter their reports this way. I never cease to marvel at the talent we have within our ranks. Ed Westemeier BJCP Communication Director communication_director at bjcp.org Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:51:05 -0500 From: Ed Westemeier <hopfen at malz.com> Subject: BJCP Northeast Region Election The only contested opening this year on the BJCP Board of Directors is in the Northeast region. All current BJCP judges in that region are asked to vote electronically before May 4th. The candidates are Peter Garofalo and Jay Hersh. Each has submitted a campaign statement, and you can read them at our website. There is a new link on the BJCP home page (www.bjcp.org) that will take you to information about the election. In an effort to streamline things, we are using electronic notification in addition to online voting, completely eliminating the paperwork. We are asking everyone who reads this to help spread the word, and ask all the judges you know in the region to go to the website, read the candidate statements, and vote. At some point in the next week or two, we will also send an individual email reminder to every judge in the Northeast region for whom we have an email address on file. This slight delay is to give you a chance to check your record and make sure we have a current email address for you. Thanks to the remarkable skill of Jamil Zainasheff and Gordon Strong, we will be using our new online voting system, which provides security, anonymity, and a basic audit trail. Your vote will be recorded (once only) from the website. The system should be available today, but since you have until May 4th to vote, please just return later if you have a problem. After all, any new system can have glitches. Just a reminder: this is ONLY for judges in the Northeast region. Ed Westemeier BJCP Communication Director communication_director at bjcp.org Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:03:14 -0800 (PST) From: Aaron Gates <aaronlgates at yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Health Beer Re: Health Beer Ok, I am now inspired to try out some herbal experimentation. Being a Doctor of Pharmacy and Pharmacist I have been wanting to do some type of medicinal beer.... but crushing up some tablets of tylenol or excedrin for a 'migraine relief beer'just sounded... well... a bad idea.... somehow. Plus, I focused on herbal remedies in my doctoral studies and it is such an alluring and satisfying thing to be your own physician. Now, I am considering using willow bark for a 'St. Joseph's Ale'. Figure enough to impart 81mg of salicylates per 12 oz, a beer a day would satisfy recommended daily intake of aspirin for cardiovascular health, etc. Salicylates(Aspirin) also reduce fever, relieve pain, prevent migraine headache, aid in reducing the onset of some cancers, reduce the frequency of heart attack and stroke, relieve inflammation, and the list goes on. One problem.... salicylic acid tastes simply awful. One needs only chew an aspirin tablet up to discover this.... maybe in baby aspirin doses(81mg) the flavor would be masked well enough in a strong ale...perhaps even balance it out with desireable bittering... Another issue... any pathways in yeast metabolism to interfere with yeast growth/proliferation present here? Also, I don't believe that it will affect pH too much.... have to do the math. One of the issues with willow bark is it is tannin rich, theoretically able to cause health issues... but not reported to date. Could be taken care of in part with a good cold break if boiled with the wort... but some of the actives are heat labile.... might want to steep with aroma hops.... not sure. Might impact flavor quite a bit. Other salicylate containing herbs include aspen bark, black cohosh(great for menopausal symptoms), poplar, sweet birch, and wintergreen. Wintergreen seems like a fun option..... not sure on the salicylate concentration.... Any ideas/experience with this type of experimentation? What fun. Aaron P.S. Other fun projects could be mood altering and sedative type herbs such as Valerian root, etc. Forget antidepressants and sedative/hypnotics.... beer will do just fine thank you. Yes I live in Humboldt County and yes Humboldt Brewing Company makes a hemp ale..... he he..... not too kosher for a pharmacist though! Could make a good 'Glaucoma Relief' beer! Would you need the 'medical-marijuana card' to buy it at the store? "So I commend the enjoyment of life, because nothing is better for a man under the sun than to eat and drink and be glad. Then joy will accompany him in his work all the days of the life God has given him under the sun." Ecclesiastes 8:15 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:56:44 -0800 (PST) From: "Raj B. Apte" <raj_apte at yahoo.com> Subject: Re:Wyeast Roselaere blend Marc, I did a batch a month ago that also failed to start quickly. But after 24 hours of no airlock activity I pitched some dry yeast over it. I complained to Wyeast and they said it should start more-or-less normally. They also said they had no other reports of sluggish starts. Please report this to them--they have a quality control problem. In my experience, it takes six months to get close to the final sourness. I think Guinard's book shows this as well. According to a Belgian brewer I spoke to, lambic and flemish red are quite similar fermentations except 1. lambic fermentation starts slower because of the enterobacteria, 2. lambic fermentation continues longer because of higher dextrins and more nutrition. The nutrition difference comes because flemish is aged in secondary, without lees, while lambic is aged in primary, sur lees. To encourage sourness, I also keep 2-3 L of beer aside. Most of the secondary fermentation is in a wood cask. But the 2-3 litres is in a mason jar covered with cloth (to keep flies out). This oxidized beer gets very very sour (more acetic than lactic) and is useful for blending. Also, you get more sourness from lighter OG. 1030-1055 will give lots of sourness. 1065 is balanced, and 1080 doesn't sour much in 12 months. raj Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 00:44:45 -0800 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Fernando_Gon=E7alves?= <fmsg at sapo.pt> Subject: hop rhizomes in europe Hi brewers I live in Portugal and would like to grown some hops. Does anyone knows a hop rhizome supplier in Europe? The only suppliers I found in the web are located in the USA and they cant send me the rhizomes because some restrictions in sending live plants by mail. Thnxs Fernando Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 20:55:42 -0600 From: "The Mad Brewer" <seansgroups at mts.net> Subject: Health beers I suppose the request is for something that looks, smells and tastes like a regular beer. Sorry, can't help, except to note that higher mash temperatures balanced by higher hop rates will drop the glycemic index a touch. For complexity, you want actual solids in there, which means African traditional beers like pombe (a.k.a. opaque sorghum beer and lots of less PC names you tend not to hear any more). They approach alcoholic Berliner porridge-weisse. The beans suggestion isn't too far out. LaPensee includes a Mumm-ale in his book, which is equal parts barley malt, oat malt and beans. The Australian government has been promoting awareness of the glycemic index of foods. Some google searching should turn up a table with beer in it. Sean Winnipeg Return to table of contents
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