HOMEBREW Digest #4528 Mon 26 April 2004

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  re: Barley in beer ("-S")
  Re: link of the week - beer bottle collection ("Greg 'groggy' Lehey")
  Re: calories in alcohol (Bob Devine)
  BYO low-carb article review ("-S")
  RE: one-step (Chuck Brandt)
  Best of Philly 2004 results ("Joe Uknalis")
  Heresy or fact ? ("Ken Peters")
  Beer to dinner ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  Re: Fix and the 40C Rest (Joe Fasel)
  Mixed Units?  Step Mash Calcs (MOREY Dan)
  Re: One-Step ("Dave Larsen")
  Mash Rest Temperatures ("Martin Brungard")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 23:04:11 -0400 From: "-S" <-s at adelphia.net> Subject: re: Barley in beer I agree with many of Dave Burley's comments regarding raw barley additions. Adding raw barley is not quite the same as having the very undermodified German malts which Max Delbruck studied a century ago, but it about as close as one can come without the effort of home-malting. If you want the experience of mashing undermodified grist then an unmalted grain adjunct will do nicely. In British experience (M&BS chap 8), that low levels of raw barley addition, the 10-20% amounts that Dave mentioned, do NOT require additional mash rests (may benefit from it tho), however beyond 20% raw the need for a 50C rest or enzyme additions becomes apparent. Adding the <20% amounts of milled barley directly to the mash and mashing a bit more extensively gives extract yield for the barley around 75% that of pale malt (~26.5 degree-gallon/lb). Kunze talks extensively about adjunct brewing (despite Reinheitsgebot) and states basically the same as M&BS on pp86 and pp222 with an 80% extraction as compared to malt. Kunze & M&BS both state that raw barley gives a different flavor - no surprise. My experience when malting 6-row feed barley, (including measures to reduce phenolics) is that it gives a clear and somewhat offensive phenolic flavors when used in large quantity. I expect the flavor would be noticeable and yet acceptable at 10-20% of grist. Using feed barley is not a fair means of comparing flavors of unmalted and malted barley, nor does it imply anything about the impact of modification on flavor. 6-row brewing barley is selected for flavor and feed barley is not. An approach which avoids the "horse feed" flavor and also the cereal mash is to use torrified barley flakes. These don't require a b-glucans rest yet have similar protein/FAN properties as whole grain. I like the use of these (and good raw grains) in beer, but I don't have the impression that their addition makes my beers magically more Germanic in flavor. Flakes add a clear 'raw grain' flavor in quantity - I find this neither offensive nor appealing just different. The heavier proteins protein add a sort of body and foam-headiness that is generally desirable, but one can get this from a tiny raw barley addition(2-3%) if that's the goal. Many beers do benefit from 2-4oz of crushed raw wheat or barley flakes. The idea that the fabled undermodified malts of the 19th century, malts which actually require traditional 3-step decoction, make the best beer belongs is quite romantic, but very dubious. To paraphase Dorothy, if you must go looking for your heart's desire, don't look any farther than a fine selection of modern malts at your LHBS. If it isn't there you never really lost it to begin with. As for the Moravian malts ... the idea that these are undermodified and therefore better is unadulterated hype. The 2 Czech Moravian malts I've seen have SNRs of 44% and 38.33%. That's a huge 3% above and a scant 0.67% SNR below Kunze's circa 1985 spec range of modification and both well above what was typical 50 years ago. These may be nice malts, but they are not similar to the historically undermodified decoction malts. -S Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:05:50 +0930 From: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" <grog at lemis.com> Subject: Re: link of the week - beer bottle collection On Saturday, 24 April 2004 at 13:09:57 -0600, Bob Devine wrote: > Fun site this week. Many homebrewers are collectors of > beer-related items. This website has 2246 bottles for viewing. > http://tolsun.oulu.fi/kbs/beer/kbsbeer.htm Sad that the quality of the comments is so low. Also the ratings are way off IMO; I suspect that's because most of the comments appear to be from people who obviously don't understand beer. Amusing to read, in part, but nothing to rely on. Also, it seems that the choice of beers is a little haphazard. Greg - -- Note: I discard all HTML mail unseen. Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key. See complete headers for address and phone numbers. Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 23:38:09 -0600 From: Bob Devine <bob.devine at worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: calories in alcohol > Recent posts that mention calories in alcohol have me > thinking again about something I've wondered about in the > past - how the body deals with alcohol. Here's a quick snapshot of metabolic processes. First, when alcohol hits the stomach, about 1/4 is absorbed through the stomach wall (an empty stomach absorbs it about three times faster) The rest is absorbed through the intestinal tract. Peak blood alcohol levels occur about 30 to 60 minutes after consumption. How quickly does alcohol get metabolized? Current estimates about that your liver convert ethanol to acetaldehyde at about 8-10 grams per hour, regardless of how much you drank, but this conversion rate differs by individual. In the next step, the acetaldehyde is converted, eventually, to acetyl-conenzyme A which can be used as an energy source by your body. Genetic differences are known for the metabolic pathways. For example, one variant in an enzyme that slows conversion of alcohol is found in 10% of Europeans but a majority of east Asians. Symptoms are higher blood alcohol levels and facial flushing. Women absorb and metabolize alcohol differently from men, probably due to their smaller size (on average) and a lower amount of the alcohol metabolizing enzyme in their stomach. So more alcohol reaches their blood stream directly. About 90-97% of the alcohol is metabolized with the remaining single-digit percentage escaping via breath or urine. Alcohol yields about 7 Calories per gram. So roughly you would think that roughly 300 grams (~11 ounces) would provide the total caloric needs for an adult male, roughly 2000 Cal/day, assuming that someone could actually live on such "empty calories". There is no simple conversion of calories from alcohol to weight gain. When alcohol is taken with food, the body converts the alcohol first and synthesizes fat to store the food's calories. But epidemiological studies show that some overweight people lose weight with a moderate consumption of alcohol. And confusingly, many chronic heavy drinkers can knock down 1000's of alcohol calories that amount each day but remain skinny. Math pop quiz -- If your liver can convert 8 - 10 grams/hour (roughly 1/3 to 1/2 ounce) and if a bottle of beer contains that amount, can you drink an entire 24-bottle case of beer in one day at the rate of a bottle per hour and not get legally drunk? > Mike > Gig harbor WA > (Rennerian: go west until you hit salt water then back up a few steps) But if you still see sunshine, you only hit the Great Salt Lake. Go northwest some more.... ;-) Bob Devine (who used to live in rainy Redmond, Wash.) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 01:49:56 -0400 From: "-S" <-s at adelphia.net> Subject: BYO low-carb article review After reading that there was a recent BYO article (v10, no3), on low-carb beers I ran off and picked up a copy. I was hoping to get an interesting insight into the issue .... all hopes were dashed about 3 paragraphs in. It's exactly what I would expect of an unedited article - one with no insightful and critical prepublication review. The first few paragraphs start off well enough discussing the popular Atkins diet as the motivation for low carb beer. Then the article then deviates from the obvious "elephant" issue. . There is no description of the type of carbs in beer nor the type of carbs of concern to Atkins dieters. This is a bit like discussing electricity without mentioning current and voltage. There is little indication that there even are distinguishable carbs. This is exemplified in the attempt to measure beer carbohydrate using a type of diabetic blood sugar meter which only registers glucose (most strip meters use a glucose oxidase enzyme reaction specific to glucose). The author may as well have used a pH meter to measure total carbs. Apparently no thought process exists behind this dismally misguided effort beyond, "I have hammer, therefore everything is a nail". There are several sweepingly erroneous statements, for example that certain flavors ("Sweet and malty are out") are unavailable in a low-carbohydrate beer. Malty flavors are primarily due to tiny amounts of Maillard products which do not add any considerable carbohydrate, and there are plenty of non-carbohydrate sweeteners in use, including in alcoholic beverages. This particular assertion is central to designing beers and is also apparently dead-wrong. The article correctly covers the topic of increasing wort fermentability, achieving high attenuation and reducing residual unfermentable carbohydrates. The use of amyloglucosidase in pro-brewing is noted but the possibility of obtaining it is ignored. (It's easy to obtain by special order). Instead the author studies the use of Beano(tm), an alpha-galactosidase enzyme preparation. There is no consideration for the fact that Beano's intended purpose is to degrade non-Atkins type complex carbs, which don't matter, into simple ones. A proper look at this issue would require a serious analysis of the actual sorts of carbs present in well attenuated beer and which are degraded by the respective enzymes. [[ One can find some real data on the issue in the HBD archives where Doc Pivo did a fasting BSL test after drinking some rather wretched residual extract]]. The article suggests that the first mention of Beano in Brewing appeared in BYO circa May 2001. I myself posted about Beano in HBD#3012, Apr 1999, and I certainly wasn't the first. The article ignores the brewing issues involved in adding starch based Beano tablets to the fermenter. After discussing the reduction of residual enzymes the author launches into a completely counterproductive discussion of adding vast amounts of artificial sweeteners with carbohydrate bulking agents to the highly attenuated beers. No support for this action appears tho' the author boldly states that sweeteners counteract the thin body of well attenuated beers, also that one can (and by implication should) add an equivalent amount of sweetener to make up for the lowered gravity due to Beano. Did the author think that the dextrins reduced by Beano were sweet flavored (they aren't) and therefore deserved replacement with equivalent sweetness ? Does he not realize that the malto-dextrin Splenda bulking agent is exactly the sort of carb he just removed from the beer ? He concludes the section suggesting the addition of 12-16 ounces (by volume?) of Splenda to a typical beer ! Tho' a much smaller amount of sweetening might be useful, the author would be well advised to consider non-carbohydrate body & mouth-feel agents such as proteins or (non-Atkins carbo) glycerol.. A table of nice HB recipes with apparently fictitious carbohydrate content listings is included. Where the writer could possibly have gotten these figures is unexplained. I'd like to see some really top-notch articles in BYO, but this sort of stuff gives the mag a bad name. A critical review should ask the evident questions and expect to find the answers in the text. Someone's asleep at the wheel on the editorial staff. HBD more better 4me, -S Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 06:36:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Brandt <cdbrandt at alum.mit.edu> Subject: RE: one-step Nathan: I used to use 1-step to sanitize everything: carboys, buckets, siphons, hoses, & bottles. I got tired of the slight white residue it was leaving on my bottles (for aesthetic reasons only) and have since gone to using iodophor for the bottles. Overall, YMMV but 1-step is simple and easy to use and has worked quite well as a sanitizer for me over the past 5 years. Chuck Brandt [193, 88] apparent Rennerian Aka Pittsburgh, PA Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 07:58:29 -0400 From: "Joe Uknalis" <birman at netaxs.com> Subject: Best of Philly 2004 results Congrats to Brian Moore of Wilmington, DE on his Best of Show California Common! Full competition results are at: http://www.hopsclub.org/ thanks to all the entrants, judges, stewards, sponsors and especially our host http://www.noddinghead.com/ (thanks Gordon!) Joe Uknalis Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 08:00:11 -0500 From: "Ken Peters" <kpeters6 at cox.net> Subject: Heresy or fact ? I was lead to this interesting link by a posting on the rec.crafts.brewing newsgroup. As the author states, most of this flies in the face of the conventional wisdom repeated here and in most "hobby" oriented books. The author appears to have the background to lend credence to his observations. Any thoughts about these opinions? http://www.beertools.com/forum/index.php?post=6297#anchr-6297 Kenneth Peters Harrah, OK Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 10:49:03 -0400 From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <spencer at umich.edu> Subject: Beer to dinner > > >I try to cover the bases from a >lawnmower lager, a full flavoured pilsner, a *somewhat* challenging bitter >pale ale or IPA or a stout. I generally stay away from bringing a >barleywine, double imperial IPA, Belgians or anything that is sure to turn >off a neophyte unless I know there are some beer geeks present. > I beg to differ. People who enjoy wine will, in my opinion, like many Belgian-style beers, but will have more trouble with something like an IPA that has high bitterness. A good "triple" or "blond" Belgian-style beer is a great match for any white wine, while the "double" style easily replaces a red wine (and as was previously mentioned goes GREAT with cheese.) Both of these styles have relatively low bitterness and many "wine-like" characteristics. I'd also recommend Boon Marriage Parfait to replace a dry sparkling white or "blush" (but not that sweet "white zin" dreck) wine. It goes great with turkey, for example and is absolutely lovely in champagne flutes. Finally, if you're bringing dessert, it's really hard to beat a nice, thick imperial stout over quality ice cream. I once was asked to bring dessert to a wine-tasting dinner. I picked out a good vanilla ice cream and brought along a few bottles of Bell's Expedition Stout (http://snipurl.com/5yjm). I wouldn't let anyone watch as I prepared the "ice cream sundaes" in the kitchen. They got lots of compliments and when I finally admitted that the "topping" was beer, I was asked "and what else?" "Just beer" was my reply, to the astonishment of the guests. =S Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 09:03:09 -0600 From: Joe Fasel <jhf at lanl.gov> Subject: Re: Fix and the 40C Rest In HBD #4527, -S writes: > JoeF writes, > > >I don't have AoBT, but from your figures above, I think you do > >have a mistake in your math. > > I don't think so, tho you made a minor error in your calc Joe. You > are right to bring this up again as it is a confusing issue. Well, what can I say? You are right, and I was wrong; my apologies; mea maxima culpa; I'm not worthy; etc. I dug the scrap of paper I did my calculations on last week out of the recycle pile and located my error in calcuating the mass of water to go with 20kg grain and 16L added boiling water. Not only that, but I found the independent compensating error I made checking that result by going the other way and calculating the final temperature. Some days are like that, I guess. Maybe it's a good thing I switched from physics to CS lo these many years ago. ;-) > > >Using 0.275 for the specific heat > >of malted grain, > > It's a minor factor, but that number is far off.. The specific heat > of 0 to 3% moisture malt is 0.38 to 0.39 not nearly 0.275. > M&BS pp 324 has a table. 0.4 is good enough for any brewing > calc. I got that number from searching hbd. If I had looked a little harder, I would have found other numbers nearer 0.4. Also, a couple of people had given a value of 1.6 J/g-C, which again is about 0.38, converting to calories. I also checked to see what value ProMash uses: 0.4175. (Well, I didn't actually use ProMash, which would have required me to hold my nose and boot Windows. I used the ProMash FirstStrike Palm program.) So, as you say, there has to be something wrong with Fix's numbers in AoBT. Most likely, again as you say, the amount of the boiling infusion is wrong. Another possibility is that the amount of grain is wrong. Maybe that was meant to be 12kg instead of 20. I say this because it's close to the 27lbs total grain bill in Fix's 1994 posting that I mentioned before: http://realbeer.com/spencer/FAQ/Fix-mash.html Remember, I also mentioned that there are problems with Fix's numbers there. (Maybe George was nearly as prone to casual errors as I!) But they are not as far off, and could be explained by having mistranscribed an initial infusion of 6gal and addition of 3.5gal as 6.5 and 3, respectively. Anyway, thanks for straightening me out. Cheers, - --Joe Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:27:12 -0500 From: MOREY Dan <dan.morey at cnh.com> Subject: Mixed Units? Step Mash Calcs Units please! Mixing SI and English units in calculations can be confusing. > It's a minor factor, but that number is far off.. The specific heat of > 0 to 3% moisture malt is 0.38 to 0.39 not nearly 0.275. M&BS pp 324 > has a table. 0.4 is good enough for any brewing calc. I believe that is 0.39 Btu/(lb*F) or 1.63 kJ/(kg*C) for "grain". For water the specific heat is 1.0 Btu/(lb*F) or 4.19 kJ/(kg*C). In the calculation we assume that specific heat is constant, which is reasonably accurate in my experience. BTW, I use 0.4 Btu/(lb*F) as default value for my calculations. With regards to step mashing. I routinely calculate step mashes. I have a 12 gallon stainless steel mash tun that weighs approximately 10 lbs. The specific heat of SS is approximately 0.11 Btu/(lb*F). Since the outside surface must be "near" room temperature and the inside surface is at mash temperature, we can estimate the average temperature of the mash tun is the average of the mash and room temperatures. Using the previous assumption the thermal capacity of the mash tun is: 0.11 Btu/(lb*F) * 10 lbs * 1/2 = 0.55 Btu/F or approximately equal to 1.38 lbs of grain. I have no experience with insulated coolers and cannot comment on them. It is far more important to know the ending mash temperature of each step when calculating step mashes. Since the mash thermal capacity is much greater than the mash tun, any errors in the assumed ending temperature will result in significant deviations form the target temperature. With a little record keeping (experimentation), one can characterize their mash system in the form of the lump capacitance model. This model can be used to predict the mash temperature at the end of each step. The result is a better prediction of the actual infusion or decoction required. From the temperature measurements, on can calculate the product UA for their system. UA = - ln((Te-Tr)/(Ti-Tr)) * C/t where, Te is the ending mash/step temperature Ti is the initial mash/step temperature Tr is room/ambient temperature C is thermal capacity = sum of mass*cp for each constituent in the mash t is time in minutes UA is a characteristic of the system and can be considered constant. I have calculated this for my system using different water to grist ratios and different batch sizes and found very little variation. To predict the ending temperature: Te = (Ti-Tr)exp(-UA*t/C) + Tr The calculation is easy and it eliminates the guess work. I'm hoping that in the future, various brewing software will add this feature. Until then, I'll have to stick with my homebrewed code. Cheers, Dan Morey Club BABBLE http://hbd.org/babble [213.1, 271.5] mi Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 21:16:19 +0000 From: "Dave Larsen" <hunahpumonkey at hotmail.com> Subject: Re: One-Step Nathan asks whether or not to use One-Step as a sanitizer. I too asked this question a few years ago. Mind you, I had been already using it for a while for both cleaning and sanitizing, as per my brew shop's recommendation. First, let me say that I never had a bad batch using One-Step. However, with that said, I had heard some anecdotal evidence that people had trouble with it in the sanitation department. As a result, I started to ask some basic advice on the contact time needed to effectively sanitize. Nobody could give me a straight answer. Even from the manufacturer, they will give you rhetoric on how they can not even call it a sanitizer because of government regulations. I eventually stopped using it because of that. I now use two products: Straight-A to clean and StarSan to sanitize. Straight-A, by the same manufacturer as One-Step, is a fine general purpose brewery cleaner and StarSan gives you a straight answer: two minutes and you are sanitized. As a result, I am pretty confident in my cleaning and sanitizing regimen. As far as crowns are concerned, there are some who claim that you don't even have to sanitize them. In fact, as I understand it, many commercial breweries don't. However, I could never bring myself to do that, so I use StarSan on my crowns. Dave Tucson, AZ >I was wondering what the general opinion was about using "One-Step" as a >sanitizer? Should I be using it? Is it the best out there? What about >when I'm sanitizing my Oxygen absorbing bottle caps? > >Nathan T. Hoskins >Brewing in Kentucky >nathanhoskins at adelphia.net Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:27:47 -0800 From: "Martin Brungard" <mabrungard at hotmail.com> Subject: Mash Rest Temperatures It is relatively clear from the recent discussions that single temperature infusions or tempertures in the 60 to 70C range can produce decent beer. The rests under 60C look like they are unnecessary in most cases. But, there does seem to be a case where a low temperature rest could still be recommended. That is the 44C rest for a bavarian weizen. I've noticed several posts in the archive that point out that a rest in the mid 40's promotes the production of 4VG precursors. I suppose that a decent weizen can still be produced with a single temperature infusion, but is that recommended by anyone? I can see that using a single decoction or boiling water infusion could help step the mash quickly through the head killing temperature range. To make a boiling water infusion work with a 44C rest, I would need to start with a fairly thick mash of around 0.75 qts/lb. Does anyone have some data on the effect of running this 44C mash with this thick of a mash? I'm trying to avoid ending with the mash too thin after an infusion. I usually formulate my mashes with a 1.25 to 1.33 qts/lb ratio. My calculations indicate that I might be upwards of 1.5 qts/lb if I were to use an infusion to step from 44 to 60C. I don't get the impression that this will be a problem. Are there any thoughts on this? Martin Brungard Tallahassee, FL Return to table of contents
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