HOMEBREW Digest #4590 Thu 26 August 2004

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  Re: of RIMS, thermocouples, accurate readings, etc (Kent Fletcher)
  freshly harvested malt (what to do with it?) (leavitdg)
  20 minute mash ("Dave Burley")
  Vancouver (leavitdg)
  Re: Beer in Syracuse ("William Benz Jr")
  RE: pLambic (gornicwm)
  measuring and adjusting mash pH (MOWAGNER)
  Alts/short mashing (Jim Busch)
  Flaked vs Raw wheat ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  Re: Vancouver, BC brewpubs (mtigges)
  of  thermocouples (Kevin Wagner)
  Yeast Strain's Effect on Beer Color. ("Dan Listermann")
  Brewpubs in Van, BC ("Steve Dale-Johnson")
  RE: RIMS, thermocouples, accurate readings, etc ("Mike Sharp")
  BBBW Update (Steve Jones)
  licorice (EAS)" <joseph_schuler@ml.com>
  Re: Vancouver, BC brewpubs (Tidmarsh Major)
  RE: of RIMS, thermocouples, accurate readings, etc..... ("Ronald La Borde")
  RE: RIMS, thermocouples, accurate readings, etc..... ("Don Price")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 00:55:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Kent Fletcher <fletcherhomebrew at yahoo.com> Subject: Re: of RIMS, thermocouples, accurate readings, etc Mark asked about thermocouples: > Unless you spend big bucks on a food grade stainless > steel encapsulated thermocouple probe, BIg bucks? I use a SS sheathed type J thermocouple, available from Grainger (# 6A843) for less than $20, it will last forever. > I guess I've already made up my mind regarding what > I'm going to do. I'm going to use a standard > temperature measurement IC and simply tape it to the > outside of the copper piping of my system, downstream > of the heater. > Can anyone see anything really wrong with my plan? Yes. The IC's themselves are much slower to react to changes in temperature than thermocouples. If you use an IC to control a RIMS, you run a serious risk of scorching your wort in the lag time. If you want to use such a chip with a HERMS design, then you can get away with it. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 05:53:10 -0400 From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu Subject: freshly harvested malt (what to do with it?) My brother just left me with about 30 lb of freshly harvested malt from his trip to Nova Scotia. He didn't get anynfo on what it was...so I am left with a quandry. If it is feed malt then it probably isn't fit for brewing, correct? ie protein levels are probably real high....? I put a few into a boul with water to see if they'll sprout....but I have never made malted barley... Then too, don't some styles call for unmalted wheat (lambic?)....so I could experiment in that fashion...with unmalted barley...? Anyway, if there are any ideas as to what I can do with this stuff I am all ears! Happy Brewwing! ..Darrell Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 06:10:46 -0400 From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net> Subject: 20 minute mash Brewsters: 20 minute mashes have been around since Charlie Papazian incorrectly did the iodine test a few decades ago and concluded it was OK to do a quick mash. When his yield was crappy he said Oh, it's OK just add more malt. Must be the highly modified malt ( maybe that was George Fix BHS) . Charlie even perpetuates the myth by specualting that there is some magical reaction of iodine with the husk. Yeah it's magical all right, it is the starch clinging to the husk of an incompletely saccharified mash. Remember, the majority of the protein modification occurs at low temperature and by far the majority of the protein modification occurs at the maltsters and the saccharification at the brewers. In any event, the proper way to do a starch test with iodine is to include the bits of starch from the malt not filter them out with a coffee filter as a recent contributor suggested . You do not get a blue mash ( positive iodine) with the <solution> until there is starch actually dissolved in the wort and that doesn't happen until you get up to the gelatinization temperature of the starch being used. Most often the Germans would get a blue mash as they finished off the brew at 167F and above. SO if efficiency and an improved mouthfeel and , more importantly, flavor is desired, I suggest step mashing and a longer mash time than 20 minutes. What is the rush when you look at the time for all the other steps? This is a hobby! Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Highly modified malt refers to the PROTEIN modfication and has little do with the starch. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 06:09:58 -0400 From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu Subject: Vancouver Marc; My wife and I just spent the week in Northern BC, but then stayed in Vancouver the last night. We stayed on Granville Island, a sort of artsy and shopping area...2 breweries/pubs there. In the Granville Hotel ( the only one on the island) there is Dockside Pub. The brewer is German,...and the brews to me were ok...except he had what he called a stout,..but I think it was with a lager yeast,...not bad tasting,..just to me mis-labelled... The other place is a larger brewery, with pub...called the Granville Island Brewery, and to me they were brewing for the masses...ie everything was a bit watery...nothing too impressive. Please let me know what you think if you go to either... ..Darrell Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 06:45:10 -0400 From: "William Benz Jr" <wbenzjr at twcny.rr.com> Subject: Re: Beer in Syracuse Alan asked about picking up micros in Syracuse. Galeville Grocery 412 Old Liverpool Rd Liverpool, NY The Party Source 2646 Erie Blvd. East Syracuse, NY Middle Ages Brewery 120 Wilkinson St Syracuse, NY Cheers Bill Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 08:51:45 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: gornicwm at earthlink.net Subject: RE: pLambic The "Flaked Wheat" was chosen over the "Raw" because my shop does not carry the raw wheat. Where could I obtain raw wheat in the future? Is this wheat sold as animal feed? Would most health food stores carry this product? Organic would be the way to go, I suspect. Sadly...or Happily...I did not check conversion. I left the iodine on vacation for the night. My typical mashes have full conversion within 1.5-2 hours, so the 1 hour mash/boil schedule provided on the Biohazard site made sense and I am fairly comfortable that starches were left behind. Again, its only a guess... >From what I've read and know, the boiling of the mash was to burst starch bundles, extract tannins, and deactivate enzyme activity. Thus, keeping remaining starches in the kettle without having them converted. I'm pretty excited about the pLambic!!! However, I understand patience in the name of the game too. Bill Gornicki CRAFT Homebrew Club Michigan Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 10:28:17 -0300 From: MOWAGNER <mowagner at speedy.com.ar> Subject: measuring and adjusting mash pH From: "Janie Curry" <houndandcalico at hotmail.com> Subject: Efficiency--measuring and adjusting mash pH really helps ...... I dough in with room temp water, take a pH reading, adjust the pH to 5.3 - 5.5, ......... Todd in Idaho I agree with you, correcting the mashing Ph (together with a proper grinding) boost a high Effciency. The only question is you take the sample from your mash with water at room temperature. What I do is: Take the water alone at room temperature and correct the Ph to 6 - 6.2 Mix with grain at proper temperature (pointing to 65 celcius) and take a sample after 5 minutes from mashing at 65 celcius and after cooling to room temperature measure Ph again (but now from mashing) to see if I'm in range with Ph (5, 3 - 5,5). With my water profile I found this works perfect, correcting the Ph from water itself and later on just checking in the mash (the important think). I think it works better this way. Why? If the mashing is high in Ph and you need to correct, you must mix the acid in the mashing, loosing temperature. In the way I do it, pre-correcting water Ph to around 6.2, (after trial and error) I always stay in the proper range without any correction during mashing. Remember you need to find the proper Ph for your local water and with dark malts perhaps you don't need to correct nothing. I apologize if my english has mistakes, spanish is my mother language. Best Regards, Mauricio Wagner Buenos Aires - Argentina http://www.cerveceroscaseros.com.ar El sitio de los Cerveceros Caseros en Castellano Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, Aug 26 2004 9:47:32 GMT-0400 From: Jim Busch <jim at victorybeer.com> Subject: Alts/short mashing Alts are hoppy but snappy and crisp on the finish. They should not be full, rich and highly malty/meloiden laden like Dunkles. A mash bill that employs mostly Munich malts results in a Vienna/Dunkles type beer. While this can be a nice beverage hopped up to 50 BUs, its not the same as a refreshing poundable session beer like one finds at Im Fuschen or Zum Uerige. You need just the right balance of malt sweetness (from Cara malz) on top of the main pils malt bill to make the finish right. As for sulpher notes, these should be subtle to non existent IMO. Lagering should help to reduce the sulpher notes. Alts are also very well attenuated beers, and this is another reason why all Munich malz recipes miss the mark. Also be sure you dont brew too big a beer, the OG should be 11.5ish the FG about 1.5-2P and the ABV under 5%. Thats why you can drink about 20 .25L glases in a good session after laying in a good base of Schweinhaxn! As for rapid mashing, there is nothing new here. It is common in a large well engineered sudhaus to achieve between 8 and 12 brews/day of normal 12P Helles bier. You dont mash long to push out that many brews per day, but you do need optimum chemistry to get the fast conversion. It also helps to do wet milling when you wants such short residence times. Prost! Jim Busch Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 10:12:44 -0400 From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <hbd at spencerwthomas.com> Subject: Flaked vs Raw wheat Flaked wheat IS "raw", that is, unmalted. It's just been steamed and squished, so it's easier to deal with in the mash (don't need to mill it, for one.) If you want "raw" wheat berries, look at a "natural foods" store in the bulk section. They should have some. Or, you can use whole wheat flour, at the risk of a stuck mash. I've done that. It works fine if your mash tun can handle it (my slotted manifold cooler didn't have a problem). =Spencer Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 09:05:51 -0700 From: mtigges at shaw.ca Subject: Re: Vancouver, BC brewpubs Marc Sedam at UNC was wondering about brewpubs in Vancouver, Canada. Marc, we have several. First worth mentioning, is that there is a (what the other brewers call a kabel) group of brewpubs owned by a company called Mark James Group. In Vancouver there are two of them, the Yaletown Brewing Company and DIX BBQ Brewhouse. The former is much better than the latter. And if you like BBQ don't opt for the latter because it says it has it. The beer at DIX isn't bad, Tony the brewer is very quality conscious, they're just not as interesting. Personally I think it has something to do with the proximity to our sports stadium. As a matter of fact you just missed cask night at DIX (usually every fifth Sat or so). YBC is excellent though. The brewer there is the head brewer for the whole MJG group of brewpubs. The bitter there (it's now called an IPA, but it's a bitter) is truly excellent. YBC has 6 regular beers, bitter, wheat, brown, pale and two lagers, one good, one boring. All of these are excellent beers, but beware the lemon if you order the hefeweizen (btw, it's brewed with a german strain). YBC is located in the trendy Yaletown district right across the street from my office, let me know if you want to tip a couple. Better than YBC though is Steamworks. It's in the bigtime tourist area called Gastown. The brewer there, Conrad, is an ex-homebrewer, a helluva nice guy, and an award winning brewer. They recently put together an adjoining coffee bar, so he spent a week making a couple thousand shots of esspresso for a stout. He won 2nd at GABF (I think) for specialty beer. It's a velvety smooth, beautifull full-bodied 7.5% stout, one of the best beers I've ever had. The coffee is there, but not overwhelming, truly a great beer. Unforuntunately, it's kind of hard to get, and might be all gone. If Conrad is there brewing (the brewery is very exposed in the downstairs eating area) ask him about it. All of there beers are excellent, especially the IPA, a bit more subdued than other examples, but very enjoyable. They alternate between the porter and stout, but if the porter is on, don't miss it. There is also a brewery/restaurant on Granville Island, I've been remiss in not visiting. I've heard it's excellent. The brewer there is a German, and the beers tend to german styles. I think it's called the Dockside Brewery. If you're going to be in Whistler, then there is an MJG there. The last time I was up there, they had a great Framboise. But that was a couple of years ago. There is also another in Surrey. Currently the North Vancouver MJG (which was called Avalon, and was quite good) is revamping itself as North Shore Brewing Company, I'm unsure if this still an MJG venture or not. Victoria, if you're going to head over there, is chock full of good brewpubs. If you're interested in going to a good non-brewpub bar then check out the Raven in North Vancouver, around the corner from my place, they have far and away the best selection of local beers. Don't hesitate to send me a mail if you need a tasting partner! Mark. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 09:10:38 -0700 From: Kevin Wagner <kevin.wagner at watchmark.com> Subject: of thermocouples "Mark Nesdoly" writes: > Unless you spend big bucks on a food grade stainless > steel encapsulated thermocouple probe, I use a 304 stainless steel encapsulated type-J thermocouple probe[1], $17.64 at Grainger. > with built in cold-junction compensation, etc (expensive). > Of course, this point is only valid if your controller is > not an off-the-shelf Omega type unit that you can plug a > thermcouple directly into. I bought my Watlow controller for $45 on e-bay. I guess it all depends on your definition of expensive, and how much fun you want to have building the hardware. > If you have a RIMS system, have you noticed any > corrosion of your thermocouple? I don't have a RIMS, but I do use this probe in my kettle, where I imagine the temperatures are higher. It's a converted sankey with two 3kw elements. Maybe 25 batches on it. The probe needs to be cleaned of chalky white deposit (beer stone?) every 5 or 6 batches. No noticeable corrosion, though. -K [1]http://tinyurl.com/52wvz Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 08:46:27 -0400 From: "Dan Listermann" <dan at listermann.com> Subject: Yeast Strain's Effect on Beer Color. From: tmeier at real-ale.net Subject: beer color related to yeast strain 10 gallons of wit, split in two fermentors. One pitched with WL Witbier yeast, other pitched with WL Wit II. The Wit II is much lighter in color. Both were shaken to aerate, and both have flocculated out. Any explanation for this? Should I adjust the final SRM based on yeast strain? ;) Not the first time I seen it, but never this extreme. A dramatic display of this effect was seen at the National Conference in Chicago last year. Dragon Mead brewing split a 3 barrel batch amount 17 yeast strains IIRC. All lined up across a bar, the color variation was remarkable to observe. Any theories as to why this happens? I don't know. Maybe the sugars that some yeasts are capable of fermenting and others are not contain pigment. Dan Listermann Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 09:34:04 -0700 From: "Steve Dale-Johnson" <sdalejohnson at hotmail.com> Subject: Brewpubs in Van, BC Marc Sedam, keeper of all things Sedamichlaus, is looking for good beer in Vancouver, BC. Good Day, eh... and welcome to the Great White North, Marc. Despite our reputation for good beer, for best results please don't get your hopes up *too* high. >From personal experience (YMMV) I've found that most brewpubs in Vancouver and surrounding areas are part of the Mark James Group, and serve somewhat boring and bland beers with no major flaws (save for lack of bitterness and flavour). Of these (in greater Van there are Dix -near BC Place, Avalon - North Van, Yaletown - not far from Dix, and Big Ridge - in Surrey) I've found Yaletown to be the blandest selection and Big Ridge to have the most interesting beers (try the red and the porter). That said, if you intend to make the trip to Surrey to Big Ridge, a must try are Gary Lohin's new digs at Central City Brewing, right off the Central City SkyTrain station and a short ride (+\- 1/2 hr) from Vancouver. An ex-RCMP homebrewer and more recently of Sailor Hagar's fame, Gary brews a respectable wheat (coriander and curacao, but neutral yeast), an excellent red ale and both a pale ale (good finish hopping) and a black and oily stout worth making the trip for on a good day. Various club members have compared differing notes, so the consistency of the brews might not be quite there yet. In Vancouver proper, Steamworks (close to Canada Place and just off the Waterfront Skytrain station) is a bit trendier and although a discerning palate can pick out some flaws in the beers, they tend to use appropriate yeasts and to be on balance a bit more interesting than those of the MJG. Steve Dale-Johnson Royal Canadian Malted Patrol - We always get our brew! Brewing at 1918 miles, 298 degrees Rennerian Delta (Vancouver), BC, Canada. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 10:10:54 -0700 From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro at hotmail.com> Subject: RE: RIMS, thermocouples, accurate readings, etc Mark Nesdoly talks of RIMS, thermocouples, accurate readings, etc..... "Can anyone see anything really wrong with my plan?" I think I'd prefer to use PID control for this, rather than some sort of bang-bang control. You're not really going to build a PID controller are you? The type of control for a beer cooler is a lot different than the type of control used for a RIMS (IMO). As for the T/C, heck I'd never immerse it directly, though there's no reason (aside from accuracy) it couldn't be used externally like your digital IC. I use an instrumented heater rod, with the T/C embedded in the end of the rod. If I didn't already have the instrumented heater, I'd use a thermowell. Regards, Mike Sharp Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 13:26:11 -0400 From: Steve Jones <stjones1 at chartertn.net> Subject: BBBW Update Hi all, You may remember a post I made a few months back about our club project on a Solera Bourbon Barrel Barleywine (see http://hbd.org/hbd/archive/4565.html#4565-2). We drew off 5 gallons last week for our annual campout this past weekend (great outing!) and it was quite tasty for as young as it is. Of the 11 5 gallons batches (some closer to 4 gal) only 1 was older than 4 months (it was 10 months), and the estimated average OG was about 1.110. Though it had only been in the barrel for about 4 weeks, it had a distinctive oakey character to it, with a slight bourbon character. 2 more batches were brewed the last 2 weekends to top it off in a few weeks. So now I've got a question: the barrel is bunged solid and seems to have a slight positive pressure on it - maybe a few psi. The last few days I've noticed several spots on the barrel (all located at joints) that seem to be tiny piles of sawdust. When I brush them away I don't see any evidence of a hole, so if it is some kind of insect it must be microscopic. Is it possible that it is a result of the positive pressure inside the barrel? Or do I have some kind of bugs in there? If it is bugs, how do I get rid of them? No insecticides, as they could permeate thru the wood into the beer. It might be a reason to coat the barrel with something to lock out the air, suffocating the bugs and having the added benefit of minimizing oxydation potential. Any comments? - --------------------------------------- An update on my walk-in cooler: After adding several kegs of beer, and 300+ pounds of grain, I had to modify the AC unit to prevent it from freezing up. I bypassed the internal controls (switches & thermostat) and direct wired the power line in to the compressor. I added a new power cord to go directly to the fan, which runs constantly. I also placed the thermostat probe into a container of water (large glass test tube - maybe 50ML or so) to reduce the on/off cycle frequency. Now the compressor on cycle is about 5 minutes, and the off cycle is 2 or 3 times that. It has been running at about 44F for a month now, and I'm very pleased with it. Next is to add several taps on the front. Steve Jones, Johnson City, TN State of Franklin Homebrewers (http://hbd.org/franklin) [421.8 mi, 168.5 deg] AR Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 13:26:51 -0400 From: "Schuler, Joseph (EAS)" <joseph_schuler at ml.com> Subject: licorice >>I'm wanting to put a slight licorice character into a fairly big wort i.e. 1.090.<< Hello, I was just wondering how you were intending to add the licorice flavor. If you aren't already, I was going to suggest using the real thing-licorice root. Joseph Schuler Princeton, NJ Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 13:59:29 -0400 From: Tidmarsh Major <tidmarsh at bellsouth.net> Subject: Re: Vancouver, BC brewpubs When I was there a few years ago, my favorite was Sailor Hagar's. http://www.bestbeerbc.com/indexFrame.htm Take the ferry across the harbor to North Van and the brewpub is a few blocks to the left and up the hill. The brewery is a small cinderblock building behind the brewpub. I wandered by during the day, and they happened to be at work brewing. The 2 brewers were very friendly and happily let me wander around looking at their operation. Tidmarsh Major Tuscaloosa, Ala. > > Hey all, > > I'll be in Vancouver this coming week and would like a > recommendation on brewpubs in the area. I know there > are about 5 pubs, with a few more breweries. Anyone > have a preference? > > Thanks. > Marc > > Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 13:47:28 -0500 From: "Ronald La Borde" <pivoron at cox.net> Subject: RE: of RIMS, thermocouples, accurate readings, etc..... From: "Mark Nesdoly" <mnesdoly at ouc.bc.ca> >Most every system I've seen/read about/researched measures temperature >via a single thermocouple. Most, but not all. I use a standard bimetal dial type. >The thermocouple is usually inserted into the wort >downstream of the heater, through some type of watertight port in the plumbing. >Since this seems to be the only way people have done a RIMS system, I kind >of ended up following the herd, but now I have serious doubts. And you should. Why measure the heated wort, when what you really want is the mash temperature, which may be quite different. >Unless you spend big bucks on a food grade stainless steel encapsulated >thermocouple probe, the thermocouple itself will corrode and eventually fail. The probe needs a diaper, it's called a probe shield, or thermowell. >The thought of a mixture of alumel-constantan particles swimming >around in my beer doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling either. Warm no, but I must admit fuzzy comes to mind. >I guess I've already made up my mind regarding what I'm going to do. I'm >going to use a standard temperature measurement IC and simply tape it to the >outside of the copper piping of my system, downstream of the heater. I'll then >wrap the works in insulation. These types of ICs are really quite cheap, very >accurate, and the nice part - digital output to the controller - no small analog >signals requiring expensive amplifiers. Since your mind is already made up, it's fortunate that you are on the right track. >Can anyone see anything really wrong with my plan? Nope Ron ===== Ronald J. La Borde -- Metairie, LA New Orleans is the suburb of Metairie, LA www.hbd.org/rlaborde Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 20:27:47 -0400 From: "Don Price" <dprice1 at tampabay.rr.com> Subject: RE: RIMS, thermocouples, accurate readings, etc..... Mark say "Unless you spend big bucks on a food grade stainless steel encapsulated thermocouple probe, the thermocouple itself will corrode and eventually fail." I use Grainger part # 6A843. It is stainless steel and $17.64 isn't exactly big bucks. Corrosion does not seem to be a problem after 3 years... Don Return to table of contents
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