HOMEBREW Digest #4678 Sun 19 December 2004

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  Grain & Hop Storage (homebrewdigest)
  Re: Magnets and Stainless / Fit of Creativity (John Palmer)
  Re: PreChilling ("Kevin Morgan")
  Carmelizing wort (David Harsh)
  Taxonomy changes ("Dave Burley")
  Toe tag keg labels ("Kevin Kutskill")
  thermostat question ("quinn meneely")
  Plastic cylindroconical ("Joe Aistrup")
  Counterflow Chiller (CRESENZI)
  Liquid Yeast Problems (Tony Brown)
  Celis White (Leo Vitt)
  Celis White ("Spencer W. Thomas")
  AFC BOS Beer on Tap at Oggi's ("Chad Stevens")
  Re: Plastic cylindroconical ("Kevin Morgan")
  Carboy carrier (Nate & Brenda Wahl)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 22:32:22 -0500 From: <homebrewdigest at myxware.com> Subject: Grain & Hop Storage HBD Readers/Brewers, I have recently purchased a Barley Crusher grain mill. Although I do not have it yet, I am planning on purchasing a 55# sack of grain. I wanted to know how everyone stores their grain. I am thinking of using buckets (with lids) and I'd like to know what others think about buckets as well as what they think about these ideas/questions. Also I do not have room in a fridge or freezer to store grain (as of right now). 1. Are food-grade ones necessary? 2. Does any one put them in bags (zip-lock or other) which are stored in bucket? 3. Should I used food-grade bags and just put them in any bucket? 4. How much (approx. avg) can a regular 5 gal. Bucket hold (in terms of lbs.)? 5. What is an ideal temperature and / or humidity range for storage? 6. How long will the grain last with minimal loss of quality? I also would like to know what different ways everyone stores their hops. I do not have a CO2 tank to purge what I store my hops in (yet). Here are some questions I was hoping fellow brewers might have answers to: 1. Freeze or refrigerate, which is preferable (cons / pros)? 2. Zip-lock bags, or others (push all the air out until I have CO2)? I'd like to thank everyone in advance because I know I will get the answers I'm looking for on HBD! Happy Holidays and Brewing, Mike Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 23:20:57 -0800 From: John Palmer <jjpalmer at altrionet.com> Subject: Re: Magnets and Stainless / Fit of Creativity Hi All, Just catching up, forgot to reply yesterday. Beer kegs are made of 304L stainless steel, and they are fairly magnetic due to the high degree of cold work in the drawing and forming operation. That's what gives 300 series its strength is the cold work. If the beer keg were annealed, you could dent it with your fist like an old Datsun. The 304L facilitates the welded construction. *** Need To Brew Oh the weather outside is frightful, but for brewing it's near delightful, So before the day is through, Need to brew, need to brew, need to brew.... Well the family said that they'd go shopping And I'd saved some yeast by cropping But the kids can't find their shoes Need to brew, need to brew, need to brew.... When they finally leave the house I can start my boil on the stove I've been dreaming of oatmeal stout So I'll need a mini-mash too... The wort is nearly boiling When I hear the garage door opening Couldn't they wait until I'm through? Need to brew, need to brew, need to brew.... John Palmer john at howtobrew.com www.realbeer.com/jjpalmer www.howtobrew.com - the free online book of homebrewing Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 05:22:57 -0500 From: "Kevin Morgan" <kevin.morgan2 at verizon.net> Subject: Re: PreChilling Pat wrote: >>Snip >Substantial. I built the beast in the winter of '96. Biggest tips: DO use a >gas manifold with check valves, and never, never, never use it for root beer. >Thanks to my friend and pack rat Bob Barrett, he article I wrote for the last >issue of BT is now published in the Brewniversity School of Engineering on the >HBD website. - -- >See ya! >Pat "I don't need no steenkin' pre-chillin'!" Babcock in SE MI >Chief of HBD Janitorial Services >http://hbd.org >pbabcock at hbd.org Ok Pat, I'll bite. Why not use this for rootbeer?? Kevin, Brewing and Meading in South Jersey (USA) Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 08:35:35 -0500 From: David Harsh <dharsh at fuse.net> Subject: Carmelizing wort Jon Olsen <burnunit at waste.org> asks about wort reduction for caramel? > Did it work, i.e., did you get a maltier profile or more caramel color? > What's the amount you took and boiled down? Aside from scorching, are > there other risks- would pushing too far cause cloying sweetness rather > than good maltiness/mouthfeel? I've done this many times, but not for a german lager. (as a side note, if I want more malt in a German style than I can get from a grain bill, I decoct, but there are few styles that I do it for. I also know that many question the need or results of a decoction and that's a whole other thread) For my strong scotch ale I take the first gallon of runnings and reduce it to about a quart. This does require constant stirring and scraping of the pan surface - I recommend the high temperature spatulas for this purpose. As you reach the end of the process you need to turn the heat down very low to avoid scorching. I've never ended up with cloying sweetness - the last batch I made took its category at Beer and Sweat 2003, and I was told it had its advocates during the BOS round. As a side note, this particular brew is OG 1.100, 99% pale malt, 1% with Styrian Goldings to ~25 IBU, bittering only. The last batch of this I made I split between Wyeasts Scottish Ale yeast and WhiteLabs Dry English Ale yeast and the Dry English Ale yeast brew was much better! The scottish produced a beer that was so clean it was just bland by comparison. I can't see doing this for a german style - the only reason I do it for the Scotch ale is that Noonan describes a six hour boil at Traquair and that's what I'm trying to approximate (ok, a little large version of Traquair) Dave Harsh Cincinnati, OH Bloatarian Brewing League Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 09:56:24 -0500 From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net> Subject: Taxonomy changes Brewsters: Jeff Renner has called to question the name changes in identifying organisms in sourdough bread. These taxonomic changes have been the bane of real understanding and communication, in my opinion, in contrast to the position these paperclip counting taxonomists take of "clarifying" organisms. What I want to know is who participates in these name changes anyway and why don't I get a vote? I can imagine a taxonomic convention where the participants are standing around after a presentation by one of their colleagues "Did you hear what term he used to descibe that yeast ? That was LAST year's term." Ha ha ha and lots of negative head shaking. Hmmmph. This problem exists throughout microbiology as well as in beer brewing and in baking breads produced by sourdough or "naturally" fermented cultures. In cheese making, where name changes are legend, these changes are often ignored by the industry in the desire for communication with users of these cultures. Especially, if you are a supplier of these cultures to the industry. "Oh we don't sell that culture any more, NOW we sell XYZ, which is the same culture". Right!. How long willl you stay in business doing that? A simple case is the name of the Lactobacillus Sanfrancisc(is it "o" or "ensis")? The authors of classical US patents, Leo Kline and Takahashi Sugihara ( 3,734,743 and 3,891,773) named it L. Sanfrancisco. These patents were isssued in 1973 and 1975, resp. I still have copies of the original patents and these were of great help to me and others in understanding sourdough baking ( yes, I have been baking Sourdough Bread longer than that). These authors discovered that a sourdough culture consisting of two disparate organisms living in symbiotic support was the cause of the stable SanFrancisco sourdough cultures. They named the acid generating portion "Lactobacillus Sanfrancisco" and in my opinion it should stay that way. Thinking I could settle the issue as to the correct term I decidied to check the available printed literature on sourdough and recent uses.I have seen this term "L. sanfrancisco" used in hard print under most circumtances and most recently by Peter Reinhart (Brother Juniper) . But Daniel Wing, also a fermented bread author of great respect, uses "L. sanfranciscensis". Wing is an MD and a microbiologist. So I tended to go with him intellectually but not emotionally. Interestingly, Reinhart's book (Crust and Crumb) is copyrighted 1998 and Wing/Scott ( Bread Builders) book 1999. SO our search is not done: From http://et.springer-ny.com:8080/prokPUB/chaphtm/070/COMPLETE.htm "Lactobacillus and Carnobacterium WALTER P. HAMMES NORBERT WEISS WILHELM HOLZAPFEL Lactobacilli are characterized as Gram-positive, nonsporeforming rods, are catalase-negative when growing without blood, usually nonmotile, do not usually reduce nitrate, and utilize glucose fermentatively (Kandler and Weiss, 1986). They may be either homofermentative, producing more than 85% lactic acid from glucose, or heterofermentative, producing lactic acid, CO2, ethanol, and/or acetic acid in equimolar amounts. The genus Lactobacillus presently comprises more than 50 recognized species. These are compiled in Table 1 with the most recent changes in nomenclature indicated by arrows. Based on the results of nucleic acid hybridization and sequencing studies, the genus is now a well-defined group of organisms" In this table I note that the bacterium is called L. sanfrancisco and the no arrow indicates a name change at least before 1984. On the other hand, they couldn't leave this alone SO ...http://www.dsmz.de/bactnom/nam1537.htm#1609: "Name: Lactobacillus sanfranciscensis Authors: Weiss and Schillinger 1984 Status: New Species, Corrected Name Literature: Int. J. Syst. Bacteriol. 34:503 (validation list); [2792], [3242], [6933] Risk group: 1 (German classification) Comment: nom. corrig.: IJSB 47:908*; Lactobacillus sanfrancisco (sic) Type strain: ATCC 27651, DSM 20451, L-12, NRRL B-3934" If you think this is limited to bacteria you would be dead wrong. The other component of sourdough, the yeast, called "Torulopsis holmii" in the original patents, has undergone a more tortuous name change that must confuse all but the most insider taxonomists. Sourdough International has this comment under "sourdo.com": " They classified the wild yeast as a strain of Saccharomyces exiguous ( actually "exiguus", unless that has been changed! - DRB) called "Torulopsis holmii". It was reclassified as "Candida milleri" and has again been reclassified as "Candida humilis". The lactobacillus is Lactobacillus sanfrancisco. The two organisms thrive in a symbiotic relationship that has protected the culture from contamination from other yeasts and bacteria for well over a century of baking. It is that symbiosis that, contrary to widespread mythology, will prevent contamination from organisms in your environment. They also found that "it seems apparent that this system would not work if baker's yeast were teamed with the sour dough bacteria.". SO I guess if we want to be modern in our taxonomic uses we should call the species Lactobacillus sanfranciscensis and Candida humilis, at least until they change it again. Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 10:14:34 -0500 From: "Kevin Kutskill" <beer-geek at comcast.net> Subject: Toe tag keg labels John Bowerman tells us of his source for keg labels: "a few years ago I stumbled onto a supply of toe tags. Yep, the kind from the morgue." This opens up a wide variety of new beer names, such as "Stiff Stout", "Korpse Koelsch", and "Body Bag Brown Ale", to name a few! Kevin beer-geek at comcast.net "Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, pizza in one hand, beer in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!" Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 10:08:09 -0600 From: "quinn meneely" <qmeneely at hotmail.com> Subject: thermostat question I have the controller 2 from williams brewing, made by johsons controls, it does both heating and cooling. The problem I have is that to switch between the two I have to unscrew the face plate and trip a circuit, open circuit is cooling closed is heating, and after many many times of finding a screwdriver and dropping and loosing screws I am tired of it, soooo I want to put a switch on the outside of the thing. I dont know any specifics of amps or volts (sorry) how heavy duty of a toggle switch and wire do I need? Thanks Alot Quinn Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 12:01:38 -0600 From: "Joe Aistrup" <joe_aistrup at msn.com> Subject: Plastic cylindroconical Hi all, Christian asks about 15 gallon inductor tanks as a viable option for conical fermenter. I've wondered about them too. They are relatively cheap (about 1/4 the cost of SS or Minibrew system), light weight, and have the right dimensions for a conical fermenter. The only concern I have is that these are made from food grade medium density polyethelene (MDPE) as opposed to high density PE. I'm not a plastics engineer, so I don't know if this even matters. But, I would like to know. Christian, I would suggest a different tact on the side port and dumping valve. It seems to me if you are going to use plastic, you minus well go all the way. Instead of an expensive SS racking arm, I'd suggest you use a bulkhead Quick Disconnect fitting (it's a female connection). It's made of Polysulfone plastic and is available at B3. Make sure you buy its male counter part. You could add a piece of Polyethylene tubing (3/8" ID) to this QD (it has a barbed fitting) to make a disposable racking arm, or simply leave it off and tip the keg (it is light weight) when you get to the bottom. Also, I'm not sure I'd go with a 2" SS dump valve either. It is very expensive. I'd suggest using a food grade plastic bulkhead fitting and reduce the MPT to 1". Then you can attach a 1" SS dump valve. I think you can make this change when you order the inductor tank. It may cost you more, but it will save you a bunch. Finally, let me add this: Anyone who ferments in plastics should know that one should not store their beer in HDPE or MDPE for long periods due to oxygen permeating through the plastic. I already have a 8.5 minibrew HDPE conical, and I have had great success with it. After two weeks of fermentation, I transfer the beer to SS Corny Kegs for any secondary fermentation and/or lagering. I've investigated this option a bit, but have not made the plunge. Like Christian, I'd appreciate any input from my fellow beerlings. Joe Aistrup Little Apple Brew Crew PS: Happy Holidays. PSS: What the heck does SWMBO stand for. It obviously refers one's female and presumably better half (at least I know mine is, or at least she tells me this almost everyday). But I'd like the precise interpretation of this acronym. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 10:19:19 -0800 (PST) From: CRESENZI <cresenzi at sbcglobal.net> Subject: Counterflow Chiller I would also have to agree. There is no way I can see you putting a copper tube inside of larger copper tube, Then carefully bending the larger tube in a sharp radius without kinking the inner tube. I would bend both tubes separate but the same, and then cork screw one inside the other. Also regardless what you hear elsewhere there are only two kinds of soft tubing. Type K used in water mains and type L. There is also ACR which starts off as L then is acid cleaned and capped. Seeing as they don't make Type K smaller than 1/2" That tells me you did not use thin copper as one post had suggested. And I know if you were to buy a chiller it would be constructed of type L tube and not K anyway. I would also be curious to find how you bent the tube in the first place. 7/8" tube does not take sharp radius's well with out the right equipment. Keep On Brewing! Anthony Ellington Connecticut Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 14:51:39 -0500 From: Tony Brown <speleobopper at gmail.com> Subject: Liquid Yeast Problems Hi All, I have been having problems with liquid yeast lately. I bought a Wyeast (smackpack) for a 5 gal IPA recently. Four hours after smacking the pack there was no swelling at all! I pitched it anyway...2 days later with no bubbles/foam at all on top of the wort I pitched a dry packet and saw fermentation within hours. The date on the pack was late September. Yesterday, I bought a White Labs vial for a 5 gal hefeweizen batch (from the same store). Best before January 24, 2005. I decided to make a yeast starter. Used 1qt of water, 5oz liquid malt, 1/2 tsp yeast nutrient, boiled for 10min, cooled to 72 deg, aerated by shaking, pitched yeast and put the airlock on. This morning, every thing is settled out and no signs of fermentation. The brew shop said to swirl the yeast sediment and give it some time. My question is should a starter take this long? Shouldn't I see fermentation within a few hours? Have I been buying dead yeast? I have also had some slow bottle conditioning. I took 3 weeks to see any visible carbonation in my last batch. Shaking the bottles after 2 weeks helped this along. I am using 1/2 tsp of iodophor sanitizer to 5 gal of water and no rinsing of anything. Same for my bottles. Is the sanitizer killing my yeast? Please advise. Tony Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 12:09:54 -0800 (PST) From: Leo Vitt <leo_vitt at yahoo.com> Subject: Celis White Every once in a while, I see a post about Celis White. I thought the brewery closed a few years ago. What's the story? Is somebody making the beer? Is the same at it was in the mid 1990's? ===== Leo Vitt Sidney, NE Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 15:46:36 -0500 From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <hbd-mod at spencerwthomas.com> Subject: Celis White Leo asks about Celis White. Michigan Brewing Co bought the name and recipe from Miller a couple of years ago. Pierre Celis came in and advised them while they were "tuning" the recipe for their equipment. It is now available in Michigan and Texas and probably other markets as well. I've had it a few times, and it has unfortunately been of variable quality. Sometimes it seems spot-on, and other times it's full of diacetyl or just a bit off in some other way. I haven't had any in the last few months, so I can say whether they've gotten it more under control. They did take a Gold with it at the 2003 GABF. You can find the story at http://www.michiganbrewing.com/ They also bought the old brewery equipment, which was a thing of beauty, but I don't know whether they've managed to actually put it to use yet. =Spencer in Ann Arbor, MI Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 14:27:33 -0800 From: "Chad Stevens" <zuvaruvi at cox.net> Subject: AFC BOS Beer on Tap at Oggi's The best of show beer from the 2004 AFC HBC, Shock and Awe Belgian Dark Strong Ale, will be on tap at the Mission Valley (San Diego) Oggi's starting next Monday, December 20th. Loren Miraglia, BOS Brewer, joined Oggi's brewers John Wilson and Tom Nickel to brew a full 7 barrel batch of the beer. We are going to keep it on tap for two weeks - until Jan 3rd and then keg it off to let it build up some age. I figure we will re-release around the time of the 2005 AFC HBC in Feb/March. The beer will also be on tap at the Santee Oggi's later in January. Any questions please email Tom Nickel at: brewhaus at hotmail.com. Go to: http://www.quaff.org/AFC2005/AFCHBC.html To register for your chance to have your beer on tap! Chad Stevens QUAFF San Diego Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 18:54:45 -0500 From: "Kevin Morgan" <kevin.morgan2 at verizon.net> Subject: Re: Plastic cylindroconical Christian said: >Ok, for the second time in a year I've lost 6 gallons of promising brew >due to bust carboys (luckily, I brewed 15 gallons of this one). So far >I've avoided bodily harm but not emotional. In short, I'm iching for a >CC fermenter like never before. But, I've got one wee one and another >on the way, and those rare spare dollars really ought to be flowing into >college funds rather than Dad's hobby. So, does anyone have any >experience using these plastic Inductor tanks? >http://www.denhartogindustries.com/inductor.asp#Products. >http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/product.asp?catalog%5Fname= >usplastic&category%5Fname=20726&product%5Fid=3863 (paste link back >together) >Seems like a stainless 2 inch ball valve for the dump port and a zymico >racking assembly ought to turn this into an acceptable solution. The >rep actually has heard of people using these and knew enough to >recommend against using it for wine because they are slightly permeable. > So I guess long-term lagering is out (unless I can saturate the >environment inside my fermenting fridge with CO2). >Thoughts, anyone? >Christian Christian etal: I've been using one of the US Plastics 15 Gal. 'mix tanks' for primary fermenter for Mead. Works great. I used a reducer on the bottom port to a 3/4" stainless ball valve for dumping. So far I haven't added the racking port, I have mine sitting high enough so I can siphon into secondary fermentor(s). Kevin, Brewing and Mazing in South Jersey Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 21:24:44 -0500 From: Nate & Brenda Wahl <cruiser at coastalwave.net> Subject: Carboy carrier Brewers! The recent flurry of carboy incidents prompted me to update the pages showing the carriers I made for my glass carboys, and advice was added on how to build them. They really do work very well. I highly recommend that if you use carboys regularly, try to come up with some sort of similar arrangement if you can. Obviously any time you throw around a glass vessel filled with over 40 pounds of liquid you have to be very careful, but these at least make it a little easier and a little safer. Here's the link, questions/comments welcome: http://users.coastalwave.net/~cruiser/Carboy/carboy.html Cheers! Nate Wahl aka Oogie Wa Wa Oak Harbor, Ohio South about 40, then East about 35 more. - -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.0 - Release Date: 12/17/2004 Return to table of contents
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