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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Over-carbonation (Edme a common factor?) (Dale Veeneman)
  Info on brewery (Joe Uknalis)
  TCJoH index (a.e.mossberg)
  Brewpubs - Western US ? (Ray Mrohs)
  No brewpubs in Missouri -- yet (Jack Baty)
  need to buy a pot (Rick Noah Zucker)
  Irish yeast and the floaters (florianb)
  Estimating caloric content of homebrew (Mike Meyer)
  Substitutions, and scratched plastic (Tom Fitzgerald)
  Juniper Ale (Dave Sheehy)
  Re: Bock im Stein (Kevin L. McBride)


Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com
Archives available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


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Date: Wed, 8 Aug 90 8:59:23 EDT
From: Dale Veeneman <dev1 at gte.com>
Subject: Over-carbonation (Edme a common factor?)

> From: winter%cirrusl at oliveb.ATC.olivetti.com (Keith Winter)
> Subject: Over-carbonated :-(
> 
> OK, I'm trying to relax but it is getting harder to do.  My latest batch
> (Papazian's Palalia India Pale Ale) has come out over-carbonated.  I

Since about December, each batch has been fine for up to about 1 1/2
months in the bottle, then it gradually starts to over-carbonate.
After about 2 1/2 months it's difficult to pour (even tipped) and
after three months, strange flavors begin to appear.  I attempted
many corrections; the only thing in common was Edme ale yeast (I'd
never had these problems before with Edme, I preferred the beer aged
4-6 months).  I finally bit the ($4.79) bullet and used Wyeast liquid
ale yeast for the current batch (still in secondary).  Have others
recently experienced anything similar with Edme?   

     -  Dale "Just drink it before two months" Veeneman

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Date:         Wed, 08 Aug 90 10:02:10 EDT
From: Joe Uknalis <UKNALIS at VTVM1.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Info on brewery


In response to the questions I've gotten about the brewery...

The shares cost $100 & are sold in 'units' of $500, 800 shares will be sold.  I
'm not sure how far along they are.. maybe 10% have been sold.
They're planning on making an amber ale, sounds like Sam Adams. 600 gal. to sta
rt.  I am not connected with the brewery but will invest.
The guys who run it work/have worked at an ethanol plant in Floyd. (3 of em)
6 pack price will be $4-5?
Dividends will be paid in cash, not cases.
The name of the brew will be 'Moonbeam Ale'

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Date: Wed, 8 Aug 90 14:49:57 GMT
From: aem at mthvax.CS.Miami.EDU (a.e.mossberg)
Subject: TCJoH index


Regarding the recent comment about yet another TCJoH index,
please note that we at the homebrew archives have two version
of the index available for anonymous ftp from 
mthvax.cs.miami.edu (129.171.32.5) in the directory ~ftp/pub/homebrew
as the file "joyindex.Z" or via e-mail through the netlib
server by sending the message


send joyindex from homebrew

to netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu


aem
- -- 
a.e.mossberg / aem at mthvax.cs.miami.edu / aem at umiami.BITNET / Pahayokee Bioregion
Plato is a bore.				- Nietzsche


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Date:         Wed, 8 Aug 90  11:45:48 EDT
From: Ray Mrohs <IRMIS971%SIVM.BITNET at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject:      Brewpubs - Western US ?

From: Ray Mrohs
      System Programmer (OIRM)
      Smithsonian Institution

We will be driving from San Francisco to Denver during the last past of
August.  Are there any recommended brewpubs along the way ??


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Date: Wed, 8 Aug 90 9:20:11 CDT
From: jack at wubios.wustl.edu (Jack Baty)
Subject: No brewpubs in Missouri -- yet

     Several weeks ago the governor of Missouri signed a bill allowing the
     establishment of brewpubs.  Homebrewer and author Dave Miller put in many
     hours working with legislators to get the law passed in a state where
     voting for such a thing could look bad on a lawmaker's resume.
     So while there are no brewpubs in St. Louis now there may be soon.  I
     think Miller has hopes of starting one.
- -- 
Jack Baty
Division of Biostatistics   Washington University Medical School   St. Louis
jack at wubios.WUstl.edu       uunet!wupost!wubios!jack

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Date: Wed, 8 Aug 90 10:44:37 -0700
From: noah at cs.washington.edu (Rick Noah Zucker)
Subject: need to buy a pot

	When I first started brewing a couple of months ago, I bought
a cheap brewing pot.  However, I think now that it is too cheap.  The
bottom burns very easily and when I try to scrub it clean, I feel like
I am going to bend the pots in half.  When boiling water, I can see the
shape of coils through the water on the bottom of the pot.

	Anyway, I want to buy a new, good pot.  I know we have discussed
some of this before, but I did not save the information.  So, could
people e-mail me info about good places from which to mail order
equipment at a good price (my local place which has very good prices on
supplies, does not carry much equipment) or if you are in the Seattle area,
it need not be mail order.  I do not care if the pots are aluminum or
stainless steel (please, no aluminum pot flames).

						   Rick Noah Zucker
						   noah at cs.washington.edu
						...uw-beaver!uw-june!noah

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Date: 08 Aug 90 11:05:55 PDT (Wed)
From: florianb at tekred.cna.tek.com
Subject: Irish yeast and the floaters

In yesterday's HBD, Ken Weiss (what a name!) says:

>Now for my question to the group. I just started using Wyeast cultures.
>I've noticed that I'm getting little flakes of material up near the surface
>of the beer in the bottle. The slightest movement will send these little
>gomers drifting down to the bottom of the bottle, looking for all the world
>like one of those snowstorm paperweights. The yeast in question is
>the Irish Ale. Comments/explanations/reassurances/loud exclamations

Wow! I exclaimed...I use the Wyeast Irish yeast almost exclusively for my
ales and I've never seen this phenomenon.  This yeast is definitely one of
the cleanest, fastest, yeasts I've used.  In the past, I have seen little
bits of things looking like tiny "boulders" which float around in the beer.
I've heard that these are caused by infusion mashing at very low tempera-
tures.  But flakes, well I could guess a wild yeast infection.  Do you
scrub the bottles well, then sanitize with chlorine bleach solution?
Another possibility is protein-tannin complex, but I don't know why it
would congregate near the surface.  Are you using fresh hops?  Perhaps you
could elaborate on your process.  Do you mash or are you using extract?

Interestedly, Florian


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Date: Wed, 8 Aug 90 12:26:38 PDT
From: meyer at tcville.hac.com (Mike Meyer)
Subject: Estimating caloric content of homebrew

As I've gotten tired of hearing comments about my girth being a direct
result of my beermaking and/or consumption, I'm interested in calculating
the calorie content of my homebrew.  Also, I want to stem the tide of
"oh, gee, beer is fattening" comments I get from people.

The assumption I'm making about calories in beer is that they are a 
function of the original gravity of the beer.  Water has a gravity of
1.000, and no calories.   Let's ignore the fact that pure alcohol has
a gravity less than 1.000.  I make the assumption that unfermentables
have the same caloric content as fermentables, as well.  (Is that a
reasonable assumption? I would expect sugars to have similar caloric
content, but I don't know about anything else that is dissolved in
beer, like proteins, etc.  At worst, this assumption would just give
you a high estimate).  

I don't have the formula handy for figuring potential alcohol from 
gravity, but figure that potential alcohol is a very convenient way
of calculating the calories.  Again, making the assumption that 
unfermentables are sugars of the same caloric content as fermentables,
we don't care about the finishing gravity for the purposes of this calculation.
Therefore we treat a potential alcohol reading of, say, 4%, as a actual
alcohol content of 4% for purposes of calorie calculation. Let's also normalize
our gravity at 60 degrees F and use a calorie count for an oz. of pure
Ethanol at that temperature.

The formula for calories in serving of beer would thus be:

 (x**) calories		% pure alcohol (potential)		oz. beer
_----------       x       ------------	                  x     --------
 oz. pure alcohol            beer                               serving


**Does anybody know what the caloric content of an oz. of pure alcohol (x) is?
Surprisingly, this is not included in the average calorie counting book :-)

Are my assumptions valid, or do they ignore some fundimental physical
properties of beer or the universe?   Will this formula give an accuracy
within 10% of the actual calorie count?


Mike Meyer
meyer at tcville.HAC.COM

 "um, let's see, 1800 calories a day is 8 stouts or 12 nut brown ales..."
 



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Date: Wed, 8 Aug 90 14:20:54 mdt
From: Dan Timm <timm at hpcsrf.col.hp.com>
Full-Name: Dan Timm

Hello Homebrewing Compatriots

I'll being attempting an oatmeal stout in the near future and have
some questions. I have taken Jay H.'s suggestion and picked up some 
steel cut oats. What i need to know is whether or not to mash 
these grains. I am an extract brewer. If i need to mash, can I just 
mash the oats or do i need a source of enzymes from barley as required
in mashing malted wheat?   What exactly is Steel cut oats, are they malted
oat?

Thanks

Dan Timm    timm at col.hp.com


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Date: Wed, 8 Aug 90 16:16:06 EDT
From: Tom Fitzgerald <fitz at wang.COM>
Subject: Substitutions, and scratched plastic

I've got the standard couple of beginners' questions:

Dave Line has a recipe for an Old Peculier lookalike that uses black
treacle and saccharin.  I can't find treacle anywhere, and I'd rather not
use saccharin if there's an alternative.  My current plan is to use
molasses instead of treacle (equal amounts), and lactose instead of
saccharin.  Should I be using blackstrap molasses instead?  Each
saccharin tab has the equivalent sweetness of 1 tsp of sucrose, so I
assume I should use 2 tsp of lactose to substitute for each tab, since
lactose is much less sweet.  Does anyone have a better idea?

Also, I've been making a habit of storing my strainer, caps, capper and
stuff inside the fermenter when not in use.  I finally noticed that these
sharp metal edges were scratching the hell out of the sides and bottom of
the fermenter.  Should I replace it immediately, or can I deal with it
by rinsing it with boiling water before putting the sanitizer in it?
(I know sanitizer won't get into the scratches well enough to kill the
bugs, but I assume steam will).  I want to start a new batch (the Peculier)
soon, and I'd rather get some real info than be forced to worry about it.

Thanks for any info

- ---
Tom Fitzgerald   Wang Labs        fitz at wang.com
1-508-967-5278   Lowell MA, USA   ...!uunet!wang!fitz

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Date: Wed, 8 Aug 90 15:59:40 PDT
From: Dave Sheehy <dbs at hprnd>
Subject: Juniper Ale
Full-Name: Dave Sheehy


The secrets to the details of a juniper spiced ale lie under all your noses
in Papazian's epic work of which we're all familiar. In the recipe for
Tumultuous Porter (aka Goat Scrotum Ale) is a suggestion to add 1/4 C juniper
berries to the wort (sorry Florian but he doesn't specify any particular
variety :-). And indeed I have concocted such a beast in the recent past. I
used the extract based recipe as a basis for an all grain version which I
dubbed "Mashed Goat Scrotum Ale" (catchy name huh?). May I further the pun by
stating that it was painfully delicious? A quarter cup of juniper berries 
gives a definite juniper flavor without being overbearing. I got juniper 
berries from the spice booth at my local farmer's market. They were semi-dry
when I bought them and I don't know how fresh berries would convert (in 
Florian's case where he has access to the fresh stuff). I emacerated them in
the food processor and added them at the end of the boil (don't want to lose
all the aromatics you know).

I have also made a spruce ale using spruce essence and Papazian's spruce ale
recipe which calls for spruce essence (as opposed to the one which uses fresh
spruce tips). I much prefer the juniper as it is not as bitter as the spruce 
and is more flavorful to boot.  I have a suspicion that any essence is not 
going to be as good as the real thing (surprise surprise) so if I were going 
to make a spruce ale again I would make an effort to use fresh spruce.

Dave Sheehy
dbs%hprnd.hp.com


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Date: Wed, 8 Aug 90 18:44:54 EDT
From: gozer!klm at uunet.UU.NET (Kevin L. McBride)
Subject: Re: Bock im Stein

In HOMEBREW Digest #469, Bob Gorman <semantic!bob at uunet.UU.NET> writes:

$     I recently found an interesting beer.  I was on my way home
$ from doing some camping and I stopped in a New Hampshire State
$ Liquor Store....
$
$     The beer is 'Fiedlers Bock im Stein'.
$
$     One more thing:  I also found there a 'Belgain ale flavored
$ with fresh cherries',  but that's for another day. (1 pint & 9 Ozs
$ of Bock im Stein says it's time to eat dinner and stop drinking
$ bier ;-}.

(Damn!  The secret's out!)

The New Hampshire State Liquor Stores DO NOT carry Bock im Stein or the
Belgian KriekBier.  This is just a simple case of mass hallucination.
For your own good, STAY AWAY.

Please.

:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

Yum.  OK, I'll share. After all, there's plenty more where that one
came from.

- --
Kevin L. McBride, President    // Amiga:      | Brewmeister, VP of tasting,
McBride Software              // The computer | and Bottle Washer,
Consulting Group, Inc.    \\ // for the       | McBeer Home Brewery
uunet!wang!gozer!klm       \x/ creative mind  | Nashua, NH

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #471, 08/09/90
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