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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


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Contents:
  Re: Lagering [Sec: Unclassified] ("Williams, Rowan")
  temperature regulation in chest freezer for lagering? (Gavin Last)
  Re: Producing doped beer for taste comparison (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Questions about Melomel, Polyclar, and Kegging (Jeff Renner)
  Re: Priming vs. Forced Carbonation Chart (Jeff Renner)
  Top-up water ("Peed, John")
  SuperNova Stocks ("Jimmie Rouse")


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Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 16:05:10 +1100
From: "Williams, Rowan" <Rowan.Williams at ag.gov.au>
Subject: Re: Lagering [Sec: Unclassified]

On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 21:13:25 -0500
Calvin Perilloux wrote:

>>
As for the Aussie basement, in some that I'd been in that claimed "18 C"
year round, there was no insulation between it and the main house -- which
had no aircon. So a hot blast of westerlies would bring the temps soaring in
the house upstairs, and the basement would still *feel* nice and cool, but a
look at the thermometer and the airlocks blasting away showed different.  A
min-max thermometer can help to make sure your temps are what you estimate
they are.

But really, Rowan, you need another fridge!  You can never have too many.
That's what the electric company guys told me, anyway.  ;-)   In any case,
another fridge is cheaper and easier than moving to someplace like Thredbo
where lagering possibilities are more open.
<<

G'day Calvin - yes, the brewgods were smiling on me that fateful day when we
inspected the property.  To find a cellar that has earth walls on three
sides thanks to the steep profile of the block of land, centrally located in
the geocentre of the house, beneath the ground floor level, is a gift that
truly keeps on giving!  I do have aircon, and the only way a westerly would
get in would be to suffer a landslide of Thredbo like proportions...

But I digress- I think I have a cunning plan...I can always do some larger
than normal batches that fill the keg and a few stubbies, etc, so I can
enjoy bottled ale whilst I ferment and condition a series of lagers.  That
way, I can still have a beer and enjoy each bottle knowing that I'm
investing more time in conditioning what should be a much more enjoyable
lager...And when the time is right, I'll see if I can pick up a cheap fridge
from the recyclers at the tip!!

Meanwhile, the original question still stands - does a keg of cold fermented
lager improve at all if it's conditioned at room temps, albeit 18C / 64.4F?
Think of it as a super sized diacetyl rest!

Cheers,
Rowan
[9588.6, 261.5] AR (statute miles)
 

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Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 01:26:54 -0500 (EST)
From: Gavin Last <gavinlast at yahoo.com>
Subject: temperature regulation in chest freezer for lagering?

Hi, I'm looking for some advice. I want to create a
device for controlled temperature lagering using an
old chest freezer and a home thermostat.
I looked into the (commercial quality)thermostats for
this purpose, but they're too expensive. Did I mention
that this project has virtually no budget?
I have an old chest freezer with a dial to control
temperature, but at it's warmest setting it's still
below zero and I need something more reliable anyway.
So, I thought that a pretty basic indoor home
thermostat might fill the need. It could either be
wired into the temperature control mechanism somehow,
or even simpler, mounted inside the freezer. Power
would have to be adapted to low volt, but other than
that I don't see too many other challenges.
Has anyone ever tried something similar? I'm no
electrician, but it seems sound IN THEORY (which is
why I'm casting about for advice before I make a huge
mistake and burn down the house, or at least screw up
some beer.
Thanks.

Gavin Last


	

	
		


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Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 10:09:58 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jsrenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Producing doped beer for taste comparison

Dylan tack <dylan at io.com> wrote from Iowa City, IA

> A company called FlavorActiV sells flavor standards for beer, but  
> they don't come cheap: http://www.flavoractiv.com/
>
> I noticed they are now marketing an "enthusiast" kit for craft  
> brewers and homebrew clubs.  The price is 95 pounds (about US  
> $170).  It has some interesting flavor standards that aren't  
> covered by the BJCP guide (including "baby vomit" and "sweaty socks").

The American Homebrewers Association (AHA, publishers of Zymurgy  
Magazine) has this kit available for $149.95 for members, $199.95 for  
non-members.  (Of course, you can become a member for $38, or $33  
through your local club's AHA member liaison - less than the price  
difference!)

This can be a good project for a club.

See http://www.beertown.org/education/flavor.html for details on  
ordering.

Jeff
AHA Governing Committee member

- ---
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, jsrennerATumichDOTedu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943


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Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 10:55:33 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jsrenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Questions about Melomel, Polyclar, and Kegging

Jeremy Blum of Takoma Park, MD wrote:

> I am making my first melomel (with raspberries) ...
>
> 1)  Is chill-haze likely to be a problem?  If it is, I can add  
> polyclar,
> but I would just as soon skip this if it is not necessary.

It isn't likely - chill haze is produced by certain size proteins  
combining with polyphenols, and you should have very little protein  
in this.  Somewhat more likely is a pectin haze if you heated the  
berries.

> 2)  Is melomel susceptible to becoming light-struck, or is this just a
> problem with beer?  I seem to recall it was the result of light
> interaction with hops, but I could be wrong.

Your recollection is correct - it won't be a problem since you used  
no hops, although it never hurts to keep beverages out of direct  
sunlight.  It can provide the energy required to kick off reactions  
such as oxidation.

> With polyclar, what would you recommend for sanitizing it?  Should  
> I put
> it in boiling water for 5 minutes (it seems like the plastic would  
> melt
> if I did this)?  Maybe add it to some amount of grain alcohol?

It shouldn't be necessary - your melomel is going to be pretty stable  
from the level of alcohol and depletion of most nutrients.  I don't  
think it's a good idea to mess with the polyclar, although I think it  
melts at temperatures well above boiling.  See
  http://www.ispcorp.com/products/housespec/content/brochure/perform/ 
ind_ref.html for some info.
>
> My final question regards my last kegging experience.  I made up a  
> batch
> of Rocky Raccoon Honey Ale, and then transferred it to a keg.  After
> cooling it, I applied 35 psi of pressure and shook it vigorously  
> for 10
> minutes.  Then I reduced the pressure to 5 psi.  The results were less
> than ideal.  Initially I ended up with alot of head as the beer was
> dispensed, but not alot carbonation actually in the beer.  So I  
> applied
> 35 psi again and let it sit for a while.  Still the beer wasn't
> adequately carbonated.  Also, it took me 2-3 weeks to finish the  
> keg, it
> seemed that towards the end of that period the beer was less and less
> carbonated.  So questions - is there a better way to carbonate the  
> beer
> initially, and is there any way to keep it adequately carbonated  
> over a
> period of 2-3 weeks.  Perhaps there is a problem with the beer that
> prevented adequate carbonation?

Ten minutes of shaking at 35 psi is probably not going to get too  
much CO2 into the beer unless it was really cold beer and/or you were  
really shaking it.   But the fact that you got a lot of head suggests  
that maybe you had more pressure than 5 psi when you dispensed it, so  
maybe you did, and even though you reduced the pressure to 5 psi, it  
was really higher in the keg.  Did you vent the head space to 5 psi  
when you were done?  If so, and if the carbonation was really high,  
then excess gas could have come out of the beer and repressurized the  
head space.

Head is formed by CO2 coming out of solution, and if the beer comes  
crashing out of the faucet forcefully (from too much pressure), you  
can end up with flat beer and a lot of head.

When you force carbonate beer, the temperature is critical.  There  
are temperature charts online.  Check with our friendly HBD sponsor  
Norther Brewer's website:

http://www.northernbrewer.com/docs/html/corny-keg.html

for more instructions.

Notice from this chart that 5 psi will give you rather low  
carbonation beer at typical fridge temps of 40-42F, and even lower at  
proper (IMO) drinking temps of 48F - 55F.

When I speed force carbonate by shaking, I determine ahead of time  
the final carbonation level I want, and which pressure I need to  
accomplish this at the temperature the beer is at.  Then as I think I  
may be approaching this end point, I reduce the pressure and listen  
to see if CO2 is still flowing into the beer when I shake it.  If I  
do things right, I can get it carbonated in pretty short order.

It's all a matter of balance between temperature and pressure.

Jeff


- ---
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, jsrennerATumichDOTedu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
***Please note new address***




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Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 11:14:30 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <jsrenner at umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Priming vs. Forced Carbonation Chart

Bob Tower <bob at constructotower.com> wrote:

> I am experimenting with priming my finished beer in a keg rather  
> than force carbonating as I have been doing for the past several  
> years. My plan is to rack the fermented beer into a keg with the  
> liquid tube shortened slightly to keep it out of the yeast sediment  
> (I cut it so that there is about 0.5 quart (0.47 liter) of dead space)

This shouldn't be necessary.  Only the first pint or two should be  
cloudy, as long as you don't move the keg, and rather than wasting  
the beer by leaving it behind in the keg, you can just drink it  
cloudy.  Or, if you want to transfer it to a serving keg, as you  
mention below, then just drink that first pint, then rack it to the  
serving keg.  But there's no need to do this unless you plan on  
moving the keg.

> , prime with corn sugar and leave at room temperature for 2 weeks,  
> then dose with an appropriate amount of isinglass and polyclar,  
> store the keg at 32  F. (0 C.) for 3 days then rack over to a  
> serving keg.

You should fine the beer before carbonating it.  If you add polyclar  
to carbonated beer, it will foam like a volcano.  (Been there, done  
that, got the tee-shirt.)  The reason is that those myriad little  
particles of polyclar each acts as a nucleation point for cO2 to come  
out of solution - kinda like the old-timers shaking salt into their  
beer.

Besides, even if it didn't foam over, you would certainly stir up all  
the sediment and have to wait for it to settle.

I would only fine it if necessary.  Often it isn't.  And if you do,  
don't worry, you will still have enough yeast to carbonate the beer.   
And you'll have far less sediment to cloud up that first pour.

> since I will know the pressure inside the keg and its temperature,  
> can I cross index that information on a force carbonation chart to  
> determine the volumes of dissolved CO2?

Yes.  SImple physics.  PV=nRT.  The ideal gas law.  Which you really  
don't need to know to make good beer, any more than you need to know  
Boyle's Law (vP=C) to keep your beer cold. ;-)

Jeff

- ---
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan USA, jsrennerATumichDOTedu
"One never knows, do one?"  Fats Waller, American Musician, 1904-1943
***Please note new address***




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Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 14:37:39 -0800
From: "Peed, John" <jpeed at elotouch.com>
Subject: Top-up water

Darrell asks why top-up water would be added.  Generally, you try to
collect a certain amount of wort for a given batch size, and brewing
programs such as Pro-mash will calculate this for you.  The longer you
boil, the more wort you'll boil off, so the more you'll want to start
with.  Intuitively, you'd say just sparge longer, with more water, or
boil less vigorously, but both those approaches have problems.  Sparging
longer with more water will result in thinner run-off at the end of the
sparge (less wort, which is low in pH, more water) and that will tend to
make the pH rise and higher pH will tend to leach astringent tannins out
of the husks.  So over-sparging is a bad idea.  You could boil more
gently, but a vigorous boil helps to coagulate proteins and tannins
(aids clarity), drives off off-flavor compounds such as di-methyl
sulfide and (arguably) helps to extract bitterness from the hops.  So a
quiet boil isn't a good idea either.  All you have to do is add top-up
water equal to the extra amount that will be boiled off.  In this case,
it looks like the formulater of the recipe intended to boil off one
gallon per hour, so the quart of top-up water would make up for the
extra 15 minutes of boiling beyond an hour.  I prefer a little more
vigorous boil - in general, boil as hard as you can without depositing
hops on the sides of the kettle.  Also, the top-up water should be
filtered to remove chlorine, along with the rest of the brewing water.

John Peed
Oak Ridge, TN




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Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 00:45:31 +0000
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