HOMEBREW Digest #4998 Fri 21 April 2006

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  Wyeast 1968 London ESB Ale Yeast (Fred L Johnson)
  Source of White Labs WLP002 (Fred L Johnson)
  RE: Gluten-Free Beer ("Dennis O'Brien")
  Re: Cereal Mash ("steve.alexander")
  Re: Cereal Mash (stencil)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 07:16:43 -0400 From: Fred L Johnson <FLJohnson52 at nc.rr.com> Subject: Wyeast 1968 London ESB Ale Yeast A description of Wyeast 1968 London ESB Ale Yeast includes the following: "Diacetyl production is noticeable and a thorough rest; 50-70 degrees F, (10-21 degree C) is necessary." Can someone explain to me how one conducts a diacetyl rest for this yeast that would look different than the fermentation itself? Or does the author simply mean to allow the beer to remain at fermentation temperature for somewhat longer than is required to actually finish the fermentation? Fred L Johnson Apex, North Carolina, USA Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 07:26:58 -0400 From: Fred L Johnson <FLJohnson52 at nc.rr.com> Subject: Source of White Labs WLP002 According to one source that I've collected over the years, White Labs ale yeast WLP002 is listed as equivalent to two different Wyeast strains, Wyeast 1968 from Fuller's and Wyeast 1318 from Young's. Obviously WLP002 can not be equivalent to both of these. White Labs describes WLP002 as " A classic ESB strain from one of England's largest independent breweries." So from which brewery is WLP002? Fuller's or Young's or neither? And is it equivalent to either of the Wyeast strains? Fred L Johnson Apex, North Carolina, USA Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 06:28:52 -0700 (PDT) From: "Dennis O'Brien" <denniso76021 at yahoo.com> Subject: RE: Gluten-Free Beer I'm new to this gluten-free thing, but it's learn how to brew gluten-free or cut beer out of my diet. Obvious choice. I'm trying to soak up all of the bits of wisdom being shared and hope to get my first batch of GFB going soon. I have a few questions: 1. I use ProMash and am looking for potential SG data for various malts: millet malt, buckwheat malt, sorghum malt, sorghum syrup, quinoa malt, etc. 2. If anybody would care to give insights on the flavor and use of various gluten-free malts, it would be very helpful. From what I have gleaned from various sources so far, millet malt seems to make a good equivalent for a base pale malt, buckwheat is an OK substitute for wheat, sorghum is OK but lends a sour taste, and there is no good equivalent for crystal. Comments? Most of the good information I have found has come out of Australia (mash procedures at http://www.sillyyak.com.au/gfb/index.html and Andrew Lavery's recipes at http://oz.craftbrewer.org) or out of the book The Homebrewer's Garden. 3. Lastly, any places selling these grains in bulk over the Internet (or in North Texas)? The local feed stores so far only carry stuff (treated with pesticides) for planting. Thanks, Dennis O'Brien Trophy Club, TX - 970.8, 233 Apparent Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 17:37:48 -0400 From: "steve.alexander" <steve-alexander at adelphia.net> Subject: Re: Cereal Mash stencil says ... of my post, >The intent was not to avoid boiling but to avoid the use of a separate pot >for the cereal mash/boil/decoction. Stencil misunderstands *my* intent, which was rebut the erroneous implication that boiling is necessary for an effective cereal mash: >but near as I can tell there's no substitute >boiling if you want to use corn or rice That's simply not true. A classic cereal mash involves mixing roughly 90% crushed raw grain with about 10% crushed malt and then immediately stepping this to or just above the raw grain gelatinization temperature. Some ranges for gelat temps for common raw grains (and others) are: maize(corn) 62C-74C sorghum 69C-75C rice 61C-78C wheat 52C-64C barley 60C-62C potato 56C-69C The large ranges probably have to do with the substantial variation of gelat temp as the fraction of amylopectin varies in (e.g. in waxy grain varieties). The actual gelat temp for a given sample is quite well defined. The point of the cereal mash is NOT complete conversion, but efficient extraction of starch with enough alpha-amylase present to free water and avoid retrogradation. The amylopectin fraction of starch traps a *lot* of water molecules and although other factors are involved, the primary purpose of the cereal mash is to release the raw grist amylopectin, then chop these up with the super-abundant alpha-amylase of the malt. This allows the cereal mash to avoid retrogradation (starch turning to glue and lost to the wort) while using only a "normal" amount of mash water. Without the alpha-amylase it requires some ridiculous amount of water (~20qt/lb) to avoid retrogradation. - -- On stencil's original issue ... When using a direct fired or water infusion there is simply no difficulty to the cereal mash process in one pot. First perform the classical cereal mash outlined above, then after the cereal grist cools sufficiently (or with water temp adjustment), add the remaining malt grist and water and perform the conventional mash in the same tun. Sticking & scorching are issues in any direct heated system, so heat my infusion is you prefer. His method for a combined cereal boil+decoction seems practical, but has little in common with a cereal mash and in any case requires separate vessel for the thin-mash component during decoction. A few comments on stencil's method ... 4.50# pils malt 3.00# quick grits .25# quick oats That's too much raw grist, and I have doubts about the amino content of this wort. You can convert this much adjunct if your malt is decent, but it will require extra mash rest times. Also he seems to use 10qt water for the mash-in + 6qt more after that ... which is together good thin mash, but then sparges with an enormous 5.5gal (22qt). That's 9.5gal of total water for 7.75# of grist and that's far over-budget for water. He uses almost 5qt/lb of grist, while 4qt/lb is a practical upper limit w/o overextraction and 3.5qt/lb is a better target for HB use IMO. > yield to kettle of 8.5 gallons of 1028 wort. It's cooling, at >SG 1047, With such thin sweet wort the very extensive kettle boil is needed to attain normal gravity, but a 35% boil-off is unacceptably high and impacts wort quality. - -- I do agree with stencil's motives - both to reduce the workload and to reduce the hot wort aeration & handling. I don't think that a half-day decocting and a half-day boiling is a useful approach. -S Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 20:49:40 -0400 From: stencil <etcs.ret at verizon.net> Subject: Re: Cereal Mash On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 17:37:48 -0400, Steve Alexander wrote: > >On stencil's original issue ... >When using a direct fired or water infusion there is simply no >difficulty to the cereal mash process in one pot. First perform the >classical cereal mash [ ... ], then after the cereal grist cools >sufficiently (or with water temp adjustment), add the remaining malt >grist and water and perform the conventional mash in the same >tun. This does sound very much better than my boil-the-whole-mash scheme, as it avoids the need to add more water to make up for the reserved wort. That additional water, as he points out, distorts the grist-water ratio. The table of gelatinization temperatures is very welcome; in all my reading, preparing for this, everyone referred to "boiling" the cereal mash, frex Chapter 1 of Fix's /Analysis./ Two-digit gelatinization temps were mentioned obliquely, if at all, and gave (to me) the impression that they were more of a concern for industrial processes like hot-rolling oats. Mcmcmmc. Many thanks for the guidance. gds, stencil [535.2mi, 86.4deg] AR Return to table of contents
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