HOMEBREW Digest #5014 Fri 26 May 2006


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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
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Contents:
  Re: Saflager Strains (Bob Tower)
  Re:Saflager Strains (Thomas Rohner)
  Re: Starters (Fred L Johnson)
  B-glucans ("A.J deLange")
  RE:   Saflager Strains ("David Houseman")
  "The Perfect Pint" ("Bruce Chrustie")
  RE: Starters ("Anderson, Keith T")
  Starters ("Peed, John")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 00:06:40 -0700 From: Bob Tower <bob at constructotower.com> Subject: Re: Saflager Strains Le Man (The brewer Formerly Known As Aleman ) Mashing In Blackpool, Lancashire, UK complains of conflicting pitching rates for S-23 yeast on the DCL website. Actually, I didn't find a whole lot of specific information on the DCL site apart from very general information. If you go to the Fermentis site (the actual manufacturer of the yeast) you will get much better info. Go to http://www.fermentis.com/FO/EN/ pdf/SaflagerS-23.pdf to download the specifications about this yeast. Note that the spec sheet is the same for the home brewing area of the site as the one for the craft brewing area of the site. It states that 80-120 grams should be pitched for every hectoliter of wort when fermenting at 12-15 C. This translates to 15-23 grams per 5 gallons. Since the packets that are marketed to home brewers are 11.5 grams each, 2 packets per 5 gallon batch is the proper pitching rate (not 4-5 times that). The sheet also outlines that at 100g/hl you will achieve 6 million viable yeast cells per milliliter. I regularly use S-23 for my California common beers (steam) and get great results. I pitch at the 2 packet per 5 gallon rate at 12 C. (54 F.) and have no problems with starting or finishing of fermentation. In fact just last week I started another batch at 1.051 and within 6 days the gravity was down to 1.011 with a fine flavor. I have never noticed any sulfur produced under my brewing conditions but sometimes it will produce a slight amount of diacetyl in which case a diacetyl rest at 16 C. (61 F.) for 24-48 hours will remove it. But usually I don't get any diacetyl. I've tried S-23 on traditional lagers (Oktoberfest, schwarzbier) with great results. The only problem I've had was the one time I tried fermenting at 9 C. (48 F.) without increasing the pitching rate to 3-5 packets per 5 gallons as recommended. The fermentation would not start at all (I believe I gave it 2-3 days). Once I raised the temperature to 12 C. the fermentation started up and finished out normally. Bob Tower / Los Angeles, CA Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 12:28:56 +0200 From: Thomas Rohner <t.rohner at bluewin.ch> Subject: Re:Saflager Strains Hello Matt we use S23 for Munich Helles and Oktoberfests with excellent results. We ferment at the lower end of the temp range. (around 11 deg. Celsius) Pitching is done according to the guidelines on the packaging (on the 500g brick the say around 100g/hl, more if fermented colder we use 50-60g for 50 liters) (Wonderful beers with Saaz hops) Cheers Thomas Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 07:13:02 -0400 From: Fred L Johnson <FLJohnson52 at nc.rr.com> Subject: Re: Starters Keith Anderson describes his successful three-step, 6L starter method with oxygenation. When he pitches this large, probably very healthy starter, he doesn't aerate the wort of the brew he pitches this starter into and gets nice fermentations. Keith also says that he has been disappointed with fermentations when he has done a single-step, 3 L starter with only a single oxygenation. I suspect that the single-step, 3L liter starter simply has insufficient cells because of the limited oxygen. The reason his multi-stepped starter is successful is probably not only that it is larger but, more importantly, that the yeast have had a repeated supply of oxygen to carry out the cell divisions. If Keith were to provide oxygen to the single-step starter a couple of more times--someone else can probably provide the ideal times for this-- or simply aerate the starter constantly with air (not oxygen), I think he would have more cells, healthier cells, and a better fermentation upon pitching this single-step starter. He could do the same thing with a 6 L starter (with additional oxygenations or aeration). The only reason "under pitching", as it is called, results in poor attenuation is not because there aren't enough yeast cells pitched, it's because there isn't enough oxygen present at the time of pitching for the relatively few yeast cells to grow sufficiently to consume the sugars. Theoretically, pitching a single yeast cell can result in complete fermentation of an ocean of wort if oxygen is around. Of course, all of this yeast growth and oxygen would make for some very bad beer. In making starters, think oxygen! Fred L Johnson Apex, North Carolina, USA Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 11:25:02 +0000 From: "A.J deLange" <ajdel at cox.net> Subject: B-glucans RE: Clinical studies using barley beta-glucan have shown remarkable effects on lowering total cholesterol and LDL cholesterol by as much as 20%. Looks as if we're willing to live with slow runoff we may live longer. A.J. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 07:35:14 -0400 From: "David Houseman" <david.houseman at verizon.net> Subject: RE: Saflager Strains le Man says: " If I'm buying 4 or 5 sachets of Dry Yeast I may as well go the whole hog and get a whitelabs phial and make a starter, is as cheap." So why not just make a starter from the package of saflager yeast? I always make starters, frequently from packages of dry yeast. David Houseman Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 08:11:13 -0400 From: "Bruce Chrustie" <bruce at nortel.com> Subject: "The Perfect Pint" Anyone know if it is still possible to get a copy of this? Anyone have it? http://www.realalefestival.com/PP.html Contact info for RayD? Bruce, Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 11:42:41 -0400 From: "Anderson, Keith T" <ktanderson at cbs.com> Subject: RE: Starters Fred Wrote "If Keith were to provide oxygen to the single-step starter a couple of more times--someone else can probably provide the ideal times for this-- or simply aerate the starter constantly with air (not oxygen), I think he would have more cells, healthier cells, and a better fermentation upon pitching this single-step starter. He could do the same thing with a 6 L starter (with additional oxygenations or aeration)." Wow, thanks Fred! Hadn't thought about it that way and maybe I can save some work making my starter all at once. I guess I always had the impression that you have a smaller window of opportunity to aerate. At what point would you stop aerating your starter with O2? At what point would you stop aerating your brew with O2 (again, I don't if I have a nice big starter). I guess I always stuck with a 12hr rule of thumb that I arbitrarily picked up through no specific source of info. I've been tempted to ditch the O2 canister and go with plain air for practical reasons. Keith - -----Original Message----- From: Fred L Johnson [mailto:FLJohnson52 at nc.rr.com] Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 7:13 AM To: Homebrew Homebrew Digest; Anderson, Keith T Subject: Re: Starters Keith Anderson describes his successful three-step, 6L starter method with oxygenation. When he pitches this large, probably very healthy starter, he doesn't aerate the wort of the brew he pitches this starter into and gets nice fermentations. Keith also says that he has been disappointed with fermentations when he has done a single-step, 3 L starter with only a single oxygenation. I suspect that the single-step, 3L liter starter simply has insufficient cells because of the limited oxygen. The reason his multi-stepped starter is successful is probably not only that it is larger but, more importantly, that the yeast have had a repeated supply of oxygen to carry out the cell divisions. If Keith were to provide oxygen to the single-step starter a couple of more times--someone else can probably provide the ideal times for this-- or simply aerate the starter constantly with air (not oxygen), I think he would have more cells, healthier cells, and a better fermentation upon pitching this single-step starter. He could do the same thing with a 6 L starter (with additional oxygenations or aeration). The only reason "under pitching", as it is called, results in poor attenuation is not because there aren't enough yeast cells pitched, it's because there isn't enough oxygen present at the time of pitching for the relatively few yeast cells to grow sufficiently to consume the sugars. Theoretically, pitching a single yeast cell can result in complete fermentation of an ocean of wort if oxygen is around. Of course, all of this yeast growth and oxygen would make for some very bad beer. In making starters, think oxygen! Fred L Johnson Apex, North Carolina, USA Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 13:13:54 -0700 From: "Peed, John" <jpeed at elotouch.com> Subject: Starters Eric asks about starters. If you build the yeast up over a week or so with several feedings, it will really give you a good amount of yeast and a fast start. I've been using a stir plate (which constantly aerates and agitates) and it makes a lot more yeast a lot quicker. You don't need to chill the starter to get the yeast to fall out of suspension, particularly when using a stir plate - just turn the stir plate off and wait 12 to 24 hours and most yeast will flocculate almost completely by that time (this is much more true after constant stirring, but I don't know why). You should always oxygenate the wort if possible, in my opinion. The simplest, most effective, cleanest starter system I've ever used is a 3 liter flask on a stir plate with a Williams foam stopper. Mix the water and malt (I use 1.5 liters of water and a cup of malt) in a pot, then pour it into the flask and insert the foam stopper. Bring to a very low boil. In the meantime, iodophor-sanitize the yeast package, scissors (if cutting a smack pack) and a stir bar. You can put the stir bar in the flask with the wort if you want, but it creates nucleation sites that tend to cause boil-overs. After a 15 minute boil, immerse the flask in cold water until it's at pitching temperature. The foam stopper, sanitized by the escaping steam, will allow air into the flask while filtering out anything bad. Williams says so, and it works. Pitch the yeast, put it on a stir plate and let 'er rip for 24 to 48 hours, until there's very little foam left. Turn off, allow to settle, decant, pitch new wort and repeat a few times. On brew day, you can decant, pitch new wort, stir it a few hours, then pitch the whole thing into oxygenated wort for a raging start. By the way, my buddy Dennis Collins has convinced me that the 1 1/2" stir bars work best. John Peed Oak Ridge, TN Peed's Wicket Alery Return to table of contents
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