HOMEBREW Digest #5046 Sun 20 August 2006

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  Nut Brown and smoke (leavitdg)
  RE: A question for you promash masters... ("Doug Hurst")
  ProMash sparge water ("Peed, John")
  Re: beer preservatives (jhandy)
  Re: Efficiency of Color Extraction ("steve.alexander")
  Color Extraction ("A.J deLange")
  Re: beer preservatives (Jim Wilson)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 09:50:36 -0400 From: leavitdg at plattsburgh.edu Subject: Nut Brown and smoke Ending a nice trip to Bozeman, Yellowstone and the Tetons, we stopped in Idaho Falls, and found the Brownstone Rest and Brewery. All of the brews were good (to me) but the Nut Brown was just a little over the top in smoked flavor. I am guessing that they did not use Peated malt. I asked and the brewer was not in, and the guys in the back suggested that the flavor came from Chocolate malt. I don't think that is the cause of the smoked flavor. Anyone know what malt they use for the smoke, and if you have tried it, do you also think it was a little over the top? I know that this is a subjective thing, and some don't like smoke at all. I do, but just a little bit. Happy Brewing! (by the way, if you are ever in Jackson Hole, look up the Snake River Brewery. The best that we visited.) Darrell Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 10:41:04 -0500 From: "Doug Hurst" <dougbeer2000 at hotmail.com> Subject: RE: A question for you promash masters... Joe is aggrivated by Promash's inability to automatically adjust water amounts. I have noticed this as well but simply go to the "water needed" section and adjusted manually. Jeffrey Donvovan runs a discussion board at the Promash website. You might get more tips and suggestions there: http://www.promash.com/proboard/index.html Doug Hurst Chicago, IL [197.5, 264.8] Apparent Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 12:34:12 -0700 From: "Peed, John" <jpeed at elotouch.com> Subject: ProMash sparge water Joe asks about ProMash's sparge water calculations. You need to set the batch size in the Edit Ingredients window (that's your desired post-boil kettle volume), set strike water quarts per pound of grain in the Mash Schedule, then adjust the Sparge Gallons in the Water Needed window until the After Boil item is equal to the batch size. For a 60 minute boil, this works out to the right amount of sparge water (pre-boil amount is collected about the time the runoff is approaching 1.010). For longer boils you can just add top-up water (at 1.25 qts/hr boil-off rate, I add 0.6 gallons for a 90 minute boil). You can set a default batch size and the strike water ratio (although it doesn't always seem to stick), but I don't know any way to automatically dial in the sparge water. John Peed Oak Ridge, TN Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 19:30:10 -0700 From: jhandy <j.handy at comcast.net> Subject: Re: beer preservatives This is a good reason to stick with homebrew. All kinds of things are added to beer. Check out the experiment with Foam Stabilizers here: Does Budweiser beer contain ... chicken hearts? <http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_356b.html> J Handy Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 01:02:50 -0400 From: "steve.alexander" <-s at adelphia.net> Subject: Re: Efficiency of Color Extraction ARRON K. JONES says ... > >My guess: > >It would seem to me that a lot of the variables for color >extraction are the same ones we deal with for "extract extraction" >(temperature, time, pH, crush, etc.), however, we have a new >player, namely, the husk of the grain. We are no longer dealing >with only the kernel, but the husk as well, which provides >tannins, among other things, that can add color to beer. So I >would hypothesize that color extraction efficiency is not exactly >equal to conversion efficiency. You didn't go far enough Aaron. There are a few overlapping factors for color & extraction, but many more independent or mostly independent terms. Methods that increasing the color can even decrease extraction efficiency and visa-versa. The primary sources of beer color are melanoidin compounds and phenolic (tannin) compounds, particularly when oxidized. The phenolic compounds come both from the grain and the hops. Typical "colored malt" has the color concentrated in the outer surface of the malted grain. It's the "skin" that is colored in caramel or munich and the interior far less so, so access to the colored surface is NOT comparable to the slow enzymatic access to the interior starch. Extraction efficiency greatly depends on the crush - color extraction can proceed with no crush at all. In the mash, low concentration (high water:grist ratio) generally improves extraction efficiency, but lowers the resulting color. The lower color is probably because the less concentrated wort has far less maillard reaction and melanoidin formation than a concentrated one; but this is also pH and temperature dependent. Also perhaps less enzymatic oxidation in the less concentrated mash. Oxidation .- yada-yada - The bottom line is that open boiling and open mashing in very small (HB size) batches causes very considerable wort darkening due to phenolic oxidation. It can be reduced and even partially reversed with the use of anti-oxidants which do not impact extraction. The sparge is interesting too wrt wort color. I once did an experimental batch ((OK all my batches are experimental)) of Marzen, and I used first-runnings for the first 5gal, and a mix of first runnings and sparging for the second. *BUT* I adjusted the SG by adding water to the first-runnings and slightly over-boiling the second. Both worts came from the same mash, and had the same SG, but the diluted first-wort had considerably darker color. The conclusion is that there is more color per unit extract in first runnings than in spargings - IOW the color comes out faster than the sugars. So here is another case where more color and less extract go hand-in-hand. If you sparge less, you get lower efficiency, but more color per unit extract (and therefore per gallon). No - the relationship between color and extract is rather weak even under normal HB conditions. As a practical matter I think you should consider the SRMs and quantity of each grist on your mash bill, and the volume of the resulting beer when "designing" a color. Including the extraction efficiency in the color calculation is an error IMO. Increasing the efficiency, particularly with a better sparge or a thinner mash, actually DECREASES the color of the resulting beer !! Also, if you think beer color matters enough to take any precedence over flavor in your grist-bill design, then you certainly need another beer. -S Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 13:54:48 +0000 From: "A.J deLange" <ajdel at cox.net> Subject: Color Extraction The same general principals may apply with extraction of coloring matter as apply to the extraction of sugars but there is no reason to suppose that the same numbers apply. Furthermore, beer doesn't follow Beer's law (that the absorbance at a particular wavelength is proportional to the molar concentration of the absorbing substance) so that would throw off any practical scheme for calculation of color linearly based on quantities. Remember that 60L crystal means that it produced a 60L wort using the Congress mash procedure. Your mashing procedure is likely to be quite different. What all this means is that about the only way to predict mash color is to take careful notes as to how much of what produces which degree of color depth using your equipment and methods. As an example of the importance of method I've noticed that all my recipes are appreciably lighter in color now that I am using steam than they used to be when I used gas directly. A.J. Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 08:10:35 -0700 From: Jim Wilson <jgwilson at adelphia.net> Subject: Re: beer preservatives The CSPI published a little book in 1982 "Chemical Additives in Booze" that was sprinkled with beer factoids. Chapter 2 discussed Test-Tube Beer. 6 anti-oxidants were listed; Vitamin C, Sodium Erythorbate, Potassium Metabisulfate, Sodium Bisulfate, Sodium Hydrosulfite and Sodium Metabisulfite. 1 anti-microbial preservative was mentioned; heptylparaben. The book is a little dated now, but is a good read and can be found in used book stores. No affiliation yadayada. Jim Wilson o \o __o /\ / `\ <> `\ `> `\ > (*)/ (*) (*)/ (*) (*)/ (*) I ride my bicycle to ride my bicycle. Return to table of contents
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