HOMEBREW Digest #507 Mon 01 October 1990

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		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  re: Getting the Trub Out! (Todd Enders - WD0BCI )
  Request for Information. [R(11)] (A1C Karl Wolff)
  Request for Information [R(12)] (A1C Karl Wolff)
  Tubing for Kegging System (hp-sdd.sdd.hp.com!hp-sdd.sdd.hp.com!ncr-sd!ncrcae!ncrmud!ncrmud.Columbia.NCR.COM!brew)
  Hunter Energy Monitor (hp-sdd.sdd.hp.com!hp-sdd.sdd.hp.com!ncr-sd!ncrcae!ncrmud!ncrmud.Columbia.NCR.COM!brew)
  re: Cider Questions ("MISVX1::HABERMAND")
  Request for Information [R(13)] (A1C Karl Wolff)
  Trouble with Trub (Martin A. Lodahl)
  Slugs and Beer... Abstract (Steve Anthony)
  Cider Questions (Arun Welch)
  hops&yeast (Russ Gelinas)
  Temperature controlled fermentations ("Andy Wilcox")
  Ballentine IPA cap puzzle no. 66 (gateh)
  Carbon Dioxide... ("Gary F. Mason - Image Systems - MKO2-2/K03 - 603884[DTN264]-1503  28-Sep-1990 1755")
  TV Ontario Homebrew course (Paul Bigelow)
  Thanks for the help (Drew Lawson)
  Kolsch (Norm Hardy)
  Interop Attendees, where to relax? (Tim Dennison )
  Cider experience (Ken Johnson)
  Where is the news going ? (cass System Administrator)
  Mark Stevens' _The Beer Stack_ ("a.e.mossberg")
  HyperCard stack about beer and brewing (GARY  30-Sep-1990 1841)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 28 Sep 90 09:23:28 -0500 From: Todd Enders - WD0BCI <enders at plains.NoDak.edu> Subject: re: Getting the Trub Out! In the last installment of homebrew digest, Ken Weiss describes his difficulties in ridding his wort of trub: >I then placed the brewpot in a bath of ice water. I gave it a strong stir >to create a whirlpool and put the lid on the pot to prevent contamination. >Every 10 minutes or so I spun the pot around a little, to help the process >of heat transfer. In 40 minutes the wort in the pot was around 100 degrees. > >When I took the lid off the pot, lo and behold, there was a cloudy mess in the >center of the pot, and crystal clear wort around the edge. I filled my siphon >hose with water, stuck one end in the brewpot, and the other in my primary, >and began siphoning. That's when trouble started. The siphon just sucked >in all the trub along with the wort. The trub was a very fine textured >stuff, and mixed with the clear wort *very* easily. I didn't see any big >flakes of material, just a cloud. > >I still managed to leave some of the trub behind, and more will be left >in the dust on Friday, when I rack to the secondary, but it seems like >this didn't work the way it was supposed to. What's wrong here? Is it >my technique or my expectations? Most likley techinque. The cooler you chill your wort, the better the cold break. At the least, you should be down to fermentation temp before you syphon out of the brewpot. In my experience, the trub always seems to be quite finely divided. I have heard/read that Irish Moss will make for better flocculation, but I have never tried it. What I usually do is what Miller suggests in TCHOHB, namely syphoning into the primary as soon as the wort is cooled to fermentation temp, pitching the yeast, allowing 4-8 hours for the trub to settle, then racking to another primary (or a holding bucket), leaving the trub behind. I usually end up with 1/2" to 3/4" of trub in the bottom of the primary after about 4 hours settling time. The trub isn't supposed to have it's undesired effects until after the yeast passes into its anerobic phase, so pitching the yeast as soon as you are down to fermentation temp is a good thing from the standpoint of lessening the risk of infection. Todd Enders ARPA: enders at plains.nodak.edu Computer Center UUCP: ...!uunet!plains!enders Minot State University or: ...!hplabs!hp-lsd!plains!enders Minot, ND 58701 Bitnet: enders at plains Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 90 09:50:11 CDT From: A1C Karl Wolff <wolff at aqm.ssc.af.mil> Subject: Request for Information. [R(11)] I have a couple of questions regarding getting started with homebrewing. I am interested in starting my own brewing at home, however since I have not yet done any homebrewing, I need help. Can somebody please send me some inforation on how to get started, and possibly a few simple recipes just to get me started in the wonderful world of homebrewing. I also need to know where I can obtain the materials needed to do any homebrewing. I need a source in the Montgomery Al area. Please help a hopeful homebrewer in getting started. Karl R. Wolff Jr. wolff at aqm.ssc.af.mil Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 90 09:54:02 CDT From: A1C Karl Wolff <wolff at aqm.ssc.af.mil> Subject: Request for Information [R(12)] I need assistance in getting started. If anyone can send me information regarding a source of supply for homebrew materials in the Montgomery Alabama area, it would be greatly appreciated. I also would appreciate any pointers that can be given to me as far as what ingredients work best. I would also like a couple of recipes to help me get started. Thanks for the help. Karl R. Wolff Jr. wolff at aqm.ssc.af.mil Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 90 11:21:31 EDT From: hplabs!hp-sdd.sdd.hp.com!hp-sdd.sdd.hp.com!ncr-sd!ncrcae!ncrmud!ncrmud.Columbia.NCR.COM!brew Subject: Tubing for Kegging System I am trying to put together a kegging system and need some advice on tubing to use to connect the CO2 to the keg and keg to the faucet. Looking through a Superior Products catalog, they offer a clear and a blue transparent 5/16" gas vinyl tubing, but they don't indicate rated pressure. I know that storage and dispensing pressure will in most cases be less that 15 psi, but what about artificial carbonation where I might want to run the pressure up to 70 psi? Will this tubing withstand the pressure? I have seen soda tubing that has a braided reinforcing, sort of like reinforced garden hose. I am not sure where to find this tubing in small quanities. Jim Griggers * * * * * brew at ncrmud.Columbia.NCR.COM * * I've got a cat on me 408 Timber Ridge Dr. * * and I can't get up! West Columbia, SC * * * 29169 * * Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 90 11:00:00 EDT From: hplabs!hp-sdd.sdd.hp.com!hp-sdd.sdd.hp.com!ncr-sd!ncrcae!ncrmud!ncrmud.Columbia.NCR.COM!brew Subject: Hunter Energy Monitor Last week I stumbled across and bought a Hunter Energy Monitor at Sears Surplus store. Sears regular price was $49.95, I got it for $30. The only other place I have seen them near Columbia is at Builders Square in Augusta, GA for $34.95. Jim Griggers * * * * * brew at ncrmud.Columbia.NCR.COM * * I've got a cat on me 408 Timber Ridge Dr. * * and I can't get up! West Columbia, SC * * * 29169 * * Return to table of contents
Date: 28 Sep 90 09:32:00 PDT From: "MISVX1::HABERMAND" <habermand%misvx1.decnet at afal-edwards.af.mil> Subject: re: Cider Questions >Please indulge a fellow homebrewer for a non-beer related fermentation >question.... OK, I'll indulge... >I started a five gallon batch of cider on Monday using 5 gals of cider from >the store( hey, it's an experiment!) and a packet of Montrachet wine yeast. I >had a huge head built up by Tuesday afternoon, spewing out the lock like >crazy. I removed the lock, attached a blowoff, and waited for the head to >drop off, the replaced the lock yesterday. I still have *active* >fermentation, But..... > >I notice a strong sulfury odor when I open the door to the brewfridge. Do I >have an infection happening, or is there some strange DMSO or DSM thing with >cider that I am not aware of? Mind you, I'm not worrying, just a bit >concerned. Luckily, I still have a third of a keg left, so I'm relaxed.... Just keep relaxing and not worrying. A friend of mine, and fellow reader of the digest, brought me 2 gallons of fresh cider from Tehachapi, CA last year. I put them both in the fridge and we started to drink one. A few days later I noticed a brown foam on top that looked an awful lot like yeast fermenting. I smelled it and decided to put an airlock on it to let it finish. When it stopped fermenting, I drank some and got a nasty sulphery smell and taste. I decided to let it sit for a while, and about a month later the smell and taste went away. The jugs were plastic so I put the cap on after the visible fermentation was over. It then carbonated in the jug. I racked it off the yeast trub on the bottom and put it into Grolsch bottles. The other gallon has never been opened and just swelled a little. It will be a year old this month and I plan on opening it. (Are you ready Bruce?) The taste is like a dry white wine with a little hint of apples. If you like it sweeter, then rack it off the yeast and stop the fermentation with campden tablets to sterilize it. You can also mix it with a small amount of fresh cider to give it a little more apple flavor and sweetness. I was surprised that it fermented in the refridgerator. Apples have natural yeast in them and my cider book says not to add any. On another note: I like Norm Hardy's report on Germany. It is informative, short, and tells us how to make the same beer at home. Greg Troxel asks about strange flavors with beer. I have noticed that some beers, especialy stouts, do not go well with pizza. Michael Jackson uses his beer like wine and serves different beers with different food. I think the problm with the jalepenos is that you have 2 strong flavors clashing with each other. Also, black patent malt has a burnt coffee charcoal like flavor and seems to used sometimes in the wrong beers David Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 90 12:13:55 CDT From: A1C Karl Wolff <wolff at aqm.ssc.af.mil> Subject: Request for Information [R(13)] I am in need of some assistance. I would like to begin in the wonderful world of homebrewing, however, I don't know where to start. If somebody could give me some information on where to purchase the materials needed, in the Montgomery Alabama area, it would be greatly appreciated. I am also in need of some step by step instructions as well as ingredients list (recipe's) to get me started. Any assistance I receive will be greatly appreciated. Karl R. Wolff Jr. wolff at aqm.ssc.af.mil Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 90 10:43:22 PDT From: Martin A. Lodahl <pbmoss!malodah at PacBell.COM> Subject: Trouble with Trub Ken Weiss experimented with trub removal, and ... > In 40 minutes the wort in the pot was around 100 degrees. > ... there was a cloudy mess in the > center of the pot, and crystal clear wort around the edge. Not a bad sign ... > ... That's when trouble started. The siphon just sucked > in all the trub along with the wort. The trub was a very fine textured > stuff, and mixed with the clear wort *very* easily. I didn't see any big > flakes of material, just a cloud. That's why I usually chill to a point where the critters become comatose, and let it settle overnight before racking and pitching. The finer flakes seem just barely more dense than the wort, and take a long time to settle. After cooling/chilling, I transfer the wort back into the (sanitized) lauter tun, let the loose leaf hops settle to the bottom, and then drain the wort out into the boiler, which strains out the hops and some of the trub, and establishes a pretty fair filter bed of spent hops. Ladleing the wort gently through this filter again will remove yet more trub, but not all. At this point I usually end up with wort that's less than crystalline. In about 10 minutes, the bottom 8" or so is cloudy, the remainder clear. The cloudy region becomes smaller and denser until it's settled into a solid layer an inch or two deep, in about 4 to 6 hours. I've read accounts of apparently instantaneous trub separations, and I'm puzzled, since my experience has alway's been much like Ken's. In one batch, I had a large, more-or-less bell-shaped trub cloud in the middle of the boiler after chilling, and tried to rack around it, but discovered that I could only recover about a gallon or so of wort without getting cloudy matter as well. It was my son (then 8) who suggested using the lauter tun & spent hops as a filter -- that kid amazes me, at times. = Martin A. Lodahl Pac*Bell Minicomputer Operations Support Staff = = malodah at pbmoss.Pacbell.COM Sacramento, CA 916.972.4821 = = If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, = = Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me! 8-) = Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 90 15:40:21 EDT From: Steve Anthony <steveo at Think.COM> Subject: Slugs and Beer... Abstract Science marches onward.... ATTRACTIVENESS OF BEER AND FERMENTATION PRODUCTS TO DEROCERAS SPECIES GARDEN SLUGS Whitney S Cransaw Department of Entomology Colorado State University Fort Collins, COlorado 80523 ABSTRACT: A series of field trials were conducted to determine the attractiveness of various malt beverages and fermentation products to Deroceras species garden slugs. Among 12 tested American beers, a 3-fold range in attractiveness was measured, based on trap captures. Alcohol was not involved in attractiveness to slugs as highest captures were effected with Kingsbury Malt Beverage, a non-alcoholic malt beverage. Furthermore, alcoholic fortification of 48-hr flattened beers had variable, and occasionally negative, effects on slug captures. Sugar water/yeast combinations showed substantial attractiveness to slugs with mixtures involving larger yeast > baking yeast > ale yeast, water check. The addition of surface active compounds did not increase slug capture in sugar water/yeast baited traps. A brewery waste product (malted grain fiber) also showed attractiveness to garden slugs, with increased attractiveness following amendment with sucrose and active yeasts. Some notes: The surface active compounds the abstract talks about (also known as "surfactants") were Ivory Dishwashing detergent and also a wetting agent, Aqua-gro. As far as I know, no slug tests have been performed with the surfactant used in Gillette foamy, nonoxynol-9. Gallo Pink Chablis was tested and was not attractive to slugs, but unfermented grape juice was. Among the beers tested are Rainer, Strohs, Schaefer, Bud, Bud Light, Pabst Blue Ribbon, Coors, Coors Light, Miller, Michelob, Kingsbury Malt Beverage. The testing methodology was impecabble: each test trial tested 4 beers in randomized locations in a 4 block slug trap, scattered in numerous locations throughout a "heavily vegetated yard". One of the beers was always Bud, and results are expressed in ratio form relative to the Bud standard. P.S. If for some reason you need to reach the author, here is how to reach him: Whitney Cranshaw Asst. Professor of Entomology E115 Anatomy - Zoology Colorado State University Fort Collins, CO 80523 (303) 491-6781 Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 90 15:21:15 -0400 From: Arun Welch <welch at cis.ohio-state.edu> Subject: Cider Questions Did you boil the cider? I generally boil mine for 3-5 minutes before pitching the yeast (this is pure cider, right, with *no* additives?). ...arun - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Arun Welch Lisp Systems Programmer, Lab for AI Research, Ohio State University welch at cis.ohio-state.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 90 15:28 EST From: <R_GELINA%UNHH.BITNET%mitvma.mit.edu at hplb.hpl.hp.com> (Russ Gelinas) Subject: hops&yeast Hey, isn't it about time for the new line of fresh hops from Freshops? Have they harvested yet, or am I over-anxious? Also, does Wyeast sell retail directly to brewers, or just to homebrew suppliers? Thanks, Russ G. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 90 16:49:14 EDT From: "Andy Wilcox" <andy at mosquito.cis.ufl.edu> Subject: Temperature controlled fermentations Finally, that old freezer in the garage is hooked up to a Hunter energy monitor (Thanks, Pete!!!). Living in Florida, this is nearly an unimaginable plus, as I doubt I've ever fermented a beer at less than 90F! So, my question is a simple one: what temperatures do various yeasts prefer? For example, I like to use the Wyeast german ale yeast, my own cultures of Sierra Nevada Pale Ale yeast, and the occasional packet of M&F. Of course, other recommendations are welcome! I'd like to do my first pilsner soon. Recipies? -Andy Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 90 16:52:41 EDT From: gateh%CONNCOLL.BITNET at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU Subject: Ballentine IPA cap puzzle no. 66 I know this topic is a little dated (not to mention utterly peripheral), but I didn't manage to remember until today to get the one of the many puzzle caps from Ballentine's IPA which no one I know has ever been able to solve to everyone's satisfaction. If I ever needed the help of the nets, it's now. It is puzzle number 66, and the pictures, as best can be translated into words, appear to be: First word: a sheep saying "Baaa..." + "'b" (?) Second word: K + what looks like a necklace (a lei) + 2000 lbs (a ton) Bob Klayton? Who is Bob Klayton? The only things up for grab are the "'b", which is the real stumper - this is the one thing that no one ever agrees upon. Some say a whale with a spout, some say a key.... I'm just about ready to put in a request with the school's electron microscope for this pic. The other is the lei, but this I'm pretty sure about because they use the same pic in another puzzle, and it's lei. Also in another puzzle they use a lowercase letter in much the same style as the mystery object in this puzzle, so that's why I say it's a "b". My thought on the whole thing (actually the rationalization which allows me to sleep) is that it's an inside joke by the puzzlemakers. The number of the people-hours which have been spent scrutinizing this cap, under the broadest of physical and mental conditions, with all investigative tools and methods available, borders on the absurd. I'm not sure exactly what fruits would fall upon the individual or individuals who can shed some light on IPA cap 66, but at a bare minimum I will offer the very finest level of hospitality I can muster if said person or persons should ever find themselves in my neck of the woods. My one concern is that this post will fail to bring forth the solution, and will instead succeed only in spreading the condition clinically know as "cap 66 angst" to more unwitting souls. Cheers (!?) - Gregg Gregg TeHennepe | Academic Computing Services | Yes, but this gateh at conncoll.bitnet | Connecticut College, New London, CT | one goes to 11... ps - I think I have an extra copy or two of this cap. I'll even send one of the damn things to any brave soul who wants a look at one... Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 90 15:02:33 PDT From: "Gary F. Mason - Image Systems - MKO2-2/K03 - 603884[DTN264]-1503 28-Sep-1990 1755" <mason at habs11.enet.dec.com> Subject: Carbon Dioxide... I have just found my first problem with kegging - I hope it's stupidity, and not generic. I went downstairs for a HB, and discovered that the tank was empty. Now that might not be unusual, but it is a 10# tank, and it has done 1/2 of a keg so far! I must have introduced a leak when carrying it between the house and the meeting the other night. There was no obvious leak, which makes me wonder what the normal precautions are. I will be changing to a five keg manifold and quick disconnect fittings while the tank is empty. Is there a way to help leakage problems when using hose clamps on plastic tubing? Is there a substitute for that method? Cheers...Gary P.S. Anyone know of a CO2 supplier in the Nashua, NH area? Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 90 18:53:50 EDT From: Paul Bigelow <bigelow at waterloo.hp.com> Subject: TV Ontario Homebrew course For Ontario digest readers: TV Ontario is offering a three part Home Studies course on Homebrew. "The three half-hour programs are hosted by Charlie Papazian... Topics covered include: basic ingredients, equipment, and the start-to-finish process of beer making. Papazian makes a couple of his favorite brews, one from a kit, and another from scratch. Viewers will also meet the brew master of a popular brew club in Toronto, who offers a tour of his plant; as well as a brew master of a an up-coming young brewing company." Lots of times to choose from: Saturdays 11:30 am starting Oct 13 Sundays 12:30 pm starting Oct 14 Saturdays 11:30 am starting Dec 1 Sundays 12:30 pm starting Dec 2 Wednesdays 7:30 am starting Dec 5 Mondays 4:30 pm starting Dec 17 Paul Bigelow bigelow at waterloo.hp.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 90 10:20:46 -0400 From: dlawson at grebyn.com (Drew Lawson) Subject: Thanks for the help I would like to thank everyone for the quick responses to my post. In particular, I would like to thank Chris Shenton for his supplier list (you can never have too many catalogs) and Chuck Coronella for forwarding Algis R Korzonas's "first batch" posting. That put a lot of pieces in the correct sequence. Just so that everyone know that I have been set straight, I now know that Foxx deals mainly with kegging, and I am not likely to keg. (I wouldn't be able to keep it where I want the beer.). I also will look into locating copies of: The Complete Joy of Home Brewing, by Charlie Papazian The Complete Handbook of Homebrewing, by David Miller Brewing Quality Beers, by Byron Burch I figure I will locate a starter kit (even if it is plastic ;-) and upgrade one part at a time as time goes by. But that is subject to change after I start browsing through catalogs. +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Is life an illusion? | Drew Lawson | | Or does it just seem that way? | dlawson at grebyn.com | +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 90 10:33:01 PDT From: polstra!norm at uunet.UU.NET (Norm Hardy) Subject: Kolsch A question from Jay on how long to cold condition a Kolsch. When I toured the Rhenania Alt brewery in Krefeld, they made a point of saying (in German of course) that they age (or lager actually) their beer near 0c or 32f for about 4 weeks to a month. For a homebrewer the only concern would be the viability of the yeast for bottling (if not kegging w/ CO2). From experience, I have never had a problem with carbonation given enough time, but sometimes I have to be patient! Norm Hardy Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 90 15:54:48 EDT From: tim at sct60a.sunyct.edu (Tim Dennison ) Subject: Interop Attendees, where to relax? At the risk of being flamed:-) (Please flame me directly if you must) I have not read my digest in about 2 weeks so this may have been discussed. I suspect that some among us will be in San Jose for Interop '90 the week of Oct 8th through the 12th. Can anyone suggest some interesting places to visit. Obviously, I hope they have to do with beer, or even wine. If this has been covered SORRY. If not, well I hope it helps more than myself. CHEERS, Tim Dennison LAN Administrator SUNY Institute of Technology Utica, NY 13504 tim at sct60a.sunyct.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 90 15:02:10 PDT From: kjohnson at argon.berkeley.edu (Ken Johnson) Subject: Cider experience About two months ago I tried my hand at making cider. I bought a gallon of apple cider from Safeway, took it home, added some Red Star champagne yeast, attached an airlock, and waited. It fermented slowly for about two week with the temperature being about 65. Then there was no sign of futher yeast activity but the cider was still very cloudy. I stuck the bottle in the fridge for two or three weeks, and it cleared up a little bit. I bottled it and let it sit for a couple weeks. The cider came out dry, bone dry. It puts a martini to shame. There is no real apple flavor left. It disappointed me after trying the Blackthorn cider at a local pub. Oh well, next time I'll try using a different type of yeast and see what that does. Ken Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 1990 08:10:15 -0400 From: hplabs!ames!gatech!bnr-vpa!cass!root.ma02.bull.com (cass System Administrator) Subject: Where is the news going ? Where does the news go once bounces from our machine ? Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 90 18:16:17 -0400 From: "a.e.mossberg" <aem at mthvax.cs.miami.edu> Subject: Mark Stevens' _The Beer Stack_ Gary Mason has provided to the homebrew archive the Hypercard stack _The Beer Stack_ by Mark Stevens. It is available from the homebrew archive as beerstax.sit.hqx-part[1-9] The homebrew archive is available via ftp as mthvax.cs.miami.edu ( or via the netlib server (netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu) send the message help to netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu for information on using the server, or the message send index from homebrew for the current index for the homebrew archive. aem Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 90 15:52:27 PDT From: GARY 30-Sep-1990 1841 <mason at habs11.enet.dec.com> Subject: HyperCard stack about beer and brewing Thanks to Andrew Mossberg, we now have the Macintosh Hypercard stack on beer and brewing in the archives. He apparently told you how to access it - I will now tell you what's in it. There are actually three stacks - Beer Stax, beer tastes, and breweries. The first is the master, and accesses the latter two on request. The main menu leads to facts about beer and brewing, brand ratings, brand comparisons, and US brewery facts. Ratings are always subjective, so take them accordingly. All in all, it is a pretty interesting set of stacks, and as always, you can add your own information as you wish (if you register it - $7 shareware). Have fun! Cheers...Gary Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #507, 10/01/90 ************************************* -------
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