HOMEBREW Digest #514 Wed 10 October 1990

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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Re:  Homebrew Digest #513 (October 09, 1990) (Karl J Molnar)
  Apple beer?  Ice? (Shaun Vecera)
  Re:DMSux (Jason Goldman)
  Wyeast 2206 / Duesseldorf goof (Norm Hardy)
  Beginner's Questions (John DeCarlo)
  Re:  Trouble with liquid yeast (John DeCarlo)
  Re:  Sterilizing (sanitizing?) (John DeCarlo)
  Re:  A bit of Homebrew History? (John DeCarlo)
  re. A bit of homebrew history (mage!lou)
  Eisbock, Eis-wine (Tony Klein)
  Kegs (dreger)
  RE: Repeal (Mike Fertsch)
  RE: Nutty beers and eisbock (Mike Fertsch)
  Raspberry stout (Bill Crick)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 9 Oct 90 07:55:16 EDT From: molnar at easygoer.crd.ge.com (Karl J Molnar) Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #513 (October 09, 1990) then stop sending me the stats. karl Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 90 10:00:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Shaun Vecera <sv11+ at andrew.cmu.edu> Subject: Apple beer? Ice? I'm getting ready to brew my second batch of beer, and I had a couple of questions. Any and all responses would be useful. 1. Has anyone brewed with apples or apple juice to make apple beer? I'd like to try this but I'm not sure how much to add, what kind to use, etc. 2. There was a question posted last month about putting ice in your strainer while sparging. I didn't see any responses, so here's the question again: Can you get away with this cheap wort cooler, provided you sterilize your ice cube trays and cover them while in the freezer? Thanks in advance Shaun Vecera sv11+ at andrew.cmu.edu vecera at psy.cmu.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 90 08:18:51 mdt From: Jason Goldman <jdg at hp-lsd.cos.hp.com> Subject: Re:DMSux Well, I didn't get any responses on my posting about DMS problems. so I took the easy way out: I didn't do anything! I finally got around to bottling this last weekend and I smelled (and tasted the beer). Aparently, almost all of the DMS has blown off. I say almost all because it's safer to be pessimistic. I guess that everything's is going to be okay. I have learned a lesson here. At least half of my batches have had something catastrophic happen. Every time, I get worried and I ask advice. I either get conflicting advice, no advice, or "um, wait and see" advice. Every time, I wait and the beer turns out drinkable, even when that seemed impossible at the time. RDWHAHB, dammit. Jason jdg at hp-lsd.hp.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 90 16:52:00 PDT From: polstra!norm at uunet.UU.NET (Norm Hardy) Subject: Wyeast 2206 / Duesseldorf goof The yeast starter made with 2206 was probably okay, but you should consider using .25 tsp of yeast nutrient in the boil, especially considering the age of the package. You may also want to make another starter with more malt to give the yeast a good boost before brewing. Wife Karen informed me that Duesseldorf's name comes from the brook/creek prefix but that the DORF comes from the German word for town. The part of kids doing cartwheels is a part of the legend of the city and sometimes a duessel can mean FOOL. Also thanks Rick Zucher. Norm Hardy Return to table of contents
Date: Tuesday, 9 Oct 1990 10:28:41 EST From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo) Subject: Beginner's Questions >Date: Thu, 27 Sep 90 20:14:49 -0400 >From: dlawson at grebyn.com (Drew Lawson) >There seem to be a small collection of books that are held as >the Farmers' Almanac of Brewing. What are these, and which >would you recommend for a beginner? I recommend getting and reading both _The_Complete_Handbook_Of_Home_Brewing by Dave Miller and _The_Complete_Joy_Of_Home_Brewing by Charlie Papazian. I think that Dave better explains the equipment needed, as well as a very detailed procedure for the first-time brewer to follow. Charlie's book is more fun to read, though, and has more interesting recipes. >Lastly, it still may be a few months before I have the funds to >get started. I take it that this is a temperature sensitive >activity. Is winter a bad time to start a batch? (I'm in the >Washington, DC area; basement in the 50s) Actually, some people in the Washington area and further south only brew in the fall/winter because lower temperatures are generally a "good thing" in brewing. John "P.S. Brew Masters in Rockville is the best local shop for home brewing supplies" DeCarlo Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org Usenet: at ... at !uunet!hadron!blkcat!109!131!John_Decarlo Fidonet: 1:109/131 Return to table of contents
Date: Tuesday, 9 Oct 1990 10:30:55 EST From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo) Subject: Re: Trouble with liquid yeast >Date: Fri, 5 Oct 90 9:32:05 EDT >From: davidson at hpanlr.an.hp.com >Subject: Trouble with liquid yeast >picked up some Wyeast Bavarian Lager #2206. I > ... >The date code on the package was May 1990 so the woman at the >store said it should take 4 days to swell (she was counting >through September). I have never found that guideline to be particularly accurate. I suspect that the temperature you leave the package at is much more important than the date on the package. >I broke the inner package Saturday evening, >intending on making my starter on Wednesday and brewing on >Thursday (it would be a good excuse to take an afternoon off). >On Sunday, it had swelled about an inch, and by Monday morning >it looked like it was going to burst. Well I wasn't ready to >brew yet (I couldn't pick up the refrigerator until Tuesday) so >I had to let this football sit on the kitchen counter until >Tuesday evening when I had time to make the starter. Tuesday I >made up the starter (process described below), pitched the >yeast, and waited, and waited, and waited... My past >experiences with dry yeast had always been very quick - pitch at >about midnight and wake to the sounds of blub, blub, blub. What I did once in a similar situation was simply prepare the starter once the packet swelled, and let the starter go past high krausen. Worked very well. If I worried, I could have always racked into another starter, leaving the dead yeast behind. Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org Usenet: at ... at !uunet!hadron!blkcat!109!131!John_Decarlo Fidonet: 1:109/131 Return to table of contents
Date: Tuesday, 9 Oct 1990 10:32:38 EST From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo) Subject: Re: Sterilizing (sanitizing?) >Date: Fri, 5 Oct 90 13:08:58 PDT >From: Kevin Karplus <karplus at ararat.ucsc.edu> >I wonder why everyone is into chemical sterilizers (bleach, >etc.) these days. I've always sterilized everything with >boiling water (including my carboys), and never had any trouble >with infections. With Boiling water, there is no problem with >contamination of the brew with the sterilizing agent. I would be interested in hearing how you managed this fine trick. Here are some reasons I don't sanitize everything with boiling water: 1) It takes a long time to boil water, especially large amounts of it. 2) Assuming it only takes ten minutes exposure to boiling water to sanitize/sterilize, that is still a tough problem making sure an entire carboy is full of boiling water for ten minutes. 3) Small plastic things like spoons and tubing could conceivably melt at high heat. 4) Glass carboys are subject to temperature shock. I have heard stories of people cracking them by pouring in boiling hot wort and adding cold water. Sounds risky to me. And, in general, I can pour cold water in lots of different containers with little problem, add some bleach, and just relax for a half hour or so and the work is done. Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org Usenet: at ... at !uunet!hadron!blkcat!109!131!John_Decarlo Fidonet: 1:109/131 Return to table of contents
Date: Tuesday, 9 Oct 1990 10:34:22 EST From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo) Subject: Re: A bit of Homebrew History? >Date: Mon, 8 Oct 90 8:55:25 CDT >From: Jeff Benson <benson at chemsun.chem.umn.edu> >Here's a question for you homebrewing old-timers ;-). >_The Family Creative Workshop_ (Plenary Publications Intl., Inc. >1974). ... Anyway, in volume 3 was a chapter titled "Brewing >With Roots and Herbs" by Nicholas E. Leddo. On page 293, Mr. >Leddo writes: > > "At the present time, federal law prohibits the home brewing of > beers made of fermented hops and malt. You cannot get a > license to make your own brew as you can to make your own > wine, but no law prohibits making the old-time soft beers > ..." Here is my understanding. In 1979, a federal bill was passed, sponsored by Senator Alan Cranston, that made home brewing legal on the federal level. One specific portion was simply to create the class of person that is not subject to federal taxes and permits. Thus, all one-adult households can brew up to 100 gallons of beer a year and remain in this category. All multi-adult households can brew up to 200 gallons of beer a year. These specific sections affect in the Tax Code statutes. If there is sufficient interest, I could get an electronic copy of the bill and post it to the net. Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org Usenet: at ... at !uunet!hadron!blkcat!109!131!John_Decarlo Fidonet: 1:109/131 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 90 13:09:47 MDT From: hplabs!mage!lou Subject: re. A bit of homebrew history In HBD #513 Jeff Benson asks about when and how homebrewing became legal. I suggest reading the section entitled "Is It Legal" in TCJoHB, p.2. Louis Clark Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 90 11:20:36 CDT From: Tony Klein <ncrons!klein at RELAY.CS.NET> Subject: Eisbock, Eis-wine Originally, Chip made the comment (this was part of discussion about something totally different): >From: cjh at vallance.eng.ileaf.com (Chip Hitchcock) ... >People in cold >climates used to produce "winter wine" of 20-25%(?) alcohol by putting >the wine out on cold nights and throwing away the (mostly water) ice each >morning; I don't know that this would be worthwhile with beer (unless >you wanted to try a strange way of making something as strong as >]barley wine[), but it could be interesting with mead, fruit mead, >or even high-proof hard cider. To which Rick replied: From: noah at cs.washington.edu (Rick Noah Zucker) > Actually this is done in Germany. It is done with a style called > Eisbock (ice bock). I'd have to look it up to get more information. And now I say: Hmmm, how very interesting. A while back my parents took a trip to the 'old country' (Austria). They brought back with them some 'Eis[wine]' (I don't know how to spell it) which they claimed was made from grapes that had been allowed to freeze on the vine. I was dubious about this - seems to me that allowing grapes to freeze will ruin them. But they did not know any more details since they were not interested in the whole manufacturing process .... So I concluded that the story was somehow messed up in translation and left the matter as yet another unsolved question of these modern times. (I once spotted a bottle of "Eiswine" in the local liquor store - icicles and snowdrifts on the label, hefty price tag (~$12 for a little bottle) imported from Germany.) So my question: Do you figure it's called 'ice wine' because it's distilled (fortified) via freezing as mentioned above? No frozen grapes involved? More interesting information would be, well, interestingly informative. Just wondering, <TK> ____/| Tony Klein NCR Comten, St.Paul, MN 612-638-7665 () \| klein at stpaul.ncr.com ...uunet!ncrlnk!ncrstp!npdiss1!klein Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 90 16:16:00 PDT From: dreger at seismo.gps.caltech.edu Subject: Kegs Hello, I was just reading the latest Zymurgy and discovered an add for alternative Beverage companies stainless steel kegs. I called them and the told me they are shipped "as is from the soda manufacturor." I was wondering if anyone reading the digest has purchased kegs from this outfit and what quality the kegs were ? Tkx Doug Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 90 13:21 EDT From: Mike Fertsch <FERTSCH at adc1.adc.ray.com> Subject: RE: Repeal Jeff Benson asks about "A bit of Homebrew History?" > Here's a question for you homebrewing old-timers ;-). > from a 1974 book - "At the present time, federal law prohibits the home > brewing of beers made of fermented hops and malt. You cannot get a license > to make your own brew as you can to make your own wine, but no law > prohibits making the old-time soft beers ..." > My question is this: was homebrewing as we know it now illegal back in > 1974 when this book was published? Homebrew became legal (in most states) in 1978. > If I thought of it at all, I guess I assumed the right was granted when > prohibition was repealed. So what's the straight dope? Apparently there was a mistake when the post-prohibition laws were written. Winemaking was specifically allowed, but due to some clerical omission, beermaking was not made legal. In 1978, they finally got around to fixing the law. Sen. Alan Cranston (CA) sponsored the law that legalized home beermaking. Mike "I am not an old-timer" Fertsch Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 90 13:23 EDT From: Mike Fertsch <FERTSCH at adc1.adc.ray.com> Subject: RE: Nutty beers and eisbock Chris Burghart asks about nutty beer > I have tasted beers with ``nutty'' flavor and seen many described that > way, but I have never seen a beer recipe that actually makes use of nuts. > Does anyone out there have such a recipe? Is there any special reason > that I wouldn't want to use nuts for brewing? Walnuts in particular seem > like they would make an interesting addition. Normally, nuts should be avoided in beer. Nuts contain lot of oils. These result in extremely poor head retention. I'm not sure what is in nut extracts (eg - almond extract), but they may be worth considering. Real brewers play tricks with the yeast to get a buttery, nutty taste in beer. Sam Smith uses shallow fermenters, special yeast, and careful temperature control to get yeast to fall out of suspension at "just the right time". Removal of yeast at "just the right time" will impart a butters, nutty taste. ------------------------------ Chip Hitchcock asks about freezing beverages: > People in cold climates used to produce "winter wine" of 20-25%(?) alcohol > by putting the wine out on cold nights and throwing away the (mostly water) > ice each morning; I don't know that this would be worthwhile with beer > (unless you wanted to try a strange way of making something as strong as > ]barley wine[), but it could be interesting with mead, fruit mead, or even > high-proof hard cider. The Germans produce a strong doppelbock called "eisbock" (ice_bock). As suggested, it has some of the water frozen and removed; the resulting solution in maltier and more alcoholic than normal doppelbocks. The Germans also make an eiswein, produced by freezing wine. Mike Fertsch Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 1990 11:31:48 EDT From: hplabs!ames!gatech!bnr-vpa!bnr-rsc!crick (Bill Crick) Subject: Raspberry stout I started a batch of the Raspberry Imperial Stout from Zymrgy. I got a friends pot and primary as a backup, and I sure needed it. If you plan to make this beer, you need one HUGE pot, or if you use the enamelled 3 gallon canning pots plan on using two. This sucker had about 33 pounds of ingredients! I was wondering if I would have room for water! I split the batch into two primaries, and a I planned to use two yeasts, I started them both, and put one in each. One fermenter has a packet of Red Star Pastuer Champagne yeast. This one took off real quick (6-10hrs to start of krausen?). The second has a packet of Cordon Brew (?) ale and stout yeast. This one lagged for almost two days before I saw much other than the odd bubble on the surface, but has biult aup a good krausen now (day 4). Does anyone know what will happen when I mix these two together in secondary? Will one yeast dominate? Which one? Someone asked how long to keep specialty beers? Well I made some Cherries in the Snow in 1987, and it is comming along real fine now. I haven't noticed a lot of change since it was about 18months old, but it does seem to be still smoothing out a bit. It still has an astringent or acidic aftertaste, but that may be the nature of the beast. The only Framboise I ever had (commercial) had that same dry mouth finish?? About the people having trouble with yeasts, I have used various dry yeasts for 15 years, and have never had a problem I could blame on the yeast*. If you are having problems, I'd suggest you look elsewhere in your process, unless youhave already proven it is the yeast by splitting a batch and using two yeasts to show one is bad. Even then look carefully at what happened after the split. Yeasts I've used include: Red Star, Doric, Great Dane, Bierkeller, EDME, "beer yeast" (in kits?)..... *NOTE: I've had very few problems overall. Keep it reasonably clean and you should be OK! I've been trying to fuckup beer for years, and haven't yet managed to? And believe me,I've tried! Bill Crick Brewius, Ergo Stout! Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #514, 10/10/90 ************************************* -------
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